Ellis, Randolph and the further, future discontent of the Warriors [Talking Points]
My take: Moped Ellis showed his appreciation to the Warriors' organization and loyal fanbase by violating his contract this past offseason, lying about it, trying to fight a very justifiable 30 suspension, issuing a weak ghost-written "apology", costing this team double digit wins this season, not helping his 6th men paid like stars and NBDL teammates while they're trying their best every night, and is a big reason the 2008-2009 Golden State Warriors are "Unwatchable baby!" Who cares if he's "not pleased" right now? Hopefully he has a successful recovery, but he had it all coming.
BUT even though as a fan I'd like the Warriors to have the option of tearing up his contract so it doesn't cripple the team's cap if he comes back and isn't worth that huge extension he was gifted, he and his agent have a very valid point. The Warriors shouldn't have the option to suspend him and then decide whether to terminate his contract if he doesn't perform. Pick one, but not both. (Legal experts in the GSoM community please drop your insights in the comments.)
At this point given Anthony Randolph's heavily mistake-laden rookie season thus far, reported sour attitude unwelcome by his teammates and coaches, high school/ college winning percentage, and draft slot, the media-hyped Nellie vs Randolph and Nellie vs Chris Webber parallel is a stretch at best. CWebb was a once in a lifetime talent. Randolph not so much. CWebb over Nellie in '94, but Nellie over Randolph in '09.
5 months ago
Atma Brother ONE
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man
i gotta respect don nelson cuz this guy obviously knows more about basketball than i do, and he knows what he’s doing…..right??? man were starting to feel like the knicks.
by lowchi on
Jan 6, 2009 6:21 PM PST
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don nelson knows
he’s a mad genius who has rebuilt franchise after franchise. our one mistake has been baron. other than that, injuries have killed us. rookies hardly ever play if they aren’t putting up huge numbers. we are looking into this randolph thing far too much.
by HoLdEmUP on
Jan 6, 2009 6:29 PM PST
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I don't agree.
Still has got to be Randolph over Nellie in 09’.
I fail to see how people can still back Nelson. His screwy lineups, double standards, ignoring defense, and defeatist attitude leads me to believe he’s not the right coach. He was the right coach with Baron here and the overall talent level of the squad higher, but what Nelson fails epically hard at is developing young talent that needs developing. And i’m excluding young talent such as Kurz, CJ, Kelenna, and Morrow from this development of young players discussion because their potential is probably close to what they are producing now.
The real NBA players we should be grooming right now, Brandan, Anthony, and Marco still have the shortest leashes on the team. It’s unacceptable to go into next year without developing these guys. I don’t blame Nelson for the Jack, Maggette or Craw transactions, maybe he’s being forced by management to play them because of the amount the team is playing them. But even he must realize that the crap lineups he’s putting out there gives us no better shot at winning than if he plays the young guys an equal amount of minutes.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
by kenntoe on
Jan 6, 2009 6:30 PM PST
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Seriously
What are we getting done this year? I know Atma you are a Nelson supporter, but the fact remains that with almost no chance of making the playoffs this year, the Warriors MUST look to the future. You’re right in that Ellis made a major mistake, but he can easily make up for it with his play on the court. Mistakes that Nelson is making right now, in trying to belittle his talented rookies for no reason and driving them out of town has it lookin a lot like ’94 in this humpy bumpy
"Rosa Parks sat so Martin could walk. Martin walked so Obama could run. Obama ran so we could all fly. Let's get fly."
by marzorg on
Jan 6, 2009 6:54 PM PST
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the difference between webber and randolph
webber was actually good in his rookie year. not a dumb premadonna that thinks hes the next coming of jc.
now i actually like randolph because he is passinate but he needs to grow up. he looks like a 10 year old that doesn’t get his way sitting on the bench. you can see immaturity just by looking at him.
he’s got a lot of developing to do. he wouldn’t play much for oklahoma city.
you have to earn playing time, you don’t get it when you dont produce. randolph has produced in maybe 3 out of the 10 games hes gotten significant playing time in. thats not good enough.
if randolph got playing time right now he would only lose confidence and create bad habits, like taking jumpers that he has no chance of making, or going for blocks and not actually playing defense. he gets good help blocks but any 1 on 1 situation he gets embarrassed.
it is now clear that a lot of people on this website dont have a clue what they’re talking about. one week jackson is the devil and the next week hes our savior. DONT MAKE COMMENT IF YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT. high school coaches dont want to hear the parents opinion…
by montamazing on
Jan 6, 2009 7:25 PM PST
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sure, "the Warriors MUST look to the future"
but nellie’s just as much as a part of that future as of right now. the only compromise is we gotta pray randolph starts doing something right during practice, nelson gives him some minutes, and randolph’s attitude problem ends. And that falls just as much on his teammates as much as it does on nelson, to get a.r. in line. i’m getting tired of this blame game, i just want to see this team gel.
by amhd388 on
Jan 6, 2009 7:41 PM PST
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the team won’t gel with the current roster and the dysfunction of the coaching staff.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
by kenntoe on
Jan 6, 2009 8:54 PM PST
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yea i dunno
marco looks pretty DARN good for his second year in the league
by HoLdEmUP on
Jan 6, 2009 7:26 PM PST
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I hope this is not true and i guess Monta lied about a month ago when he said that every thing was cool and it was just like a father and son arguement
by GSW9 on
Jan 6, 2009 6:33 PM PST
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Man Oh Man
For this team to be better next year.
1. Obviously remove Rowell from being a loyal dog to his Master.
2. Stop being cheap.
3. Let Mullin and Nelson do their jobs.
4. Firesale on the bad contracts. Personally I would keep Mags to come off bench, but trade JCraw, Kurz, Kaz, Ronnie, Will I AM, & Wright, for but would YOU DO.
5. Build around the starters Monta, Jax, AB, and also around the bench AR, Marco, and Mags
6. Draft a pg or pf
I mean from 3 to 6 is easy but from 1 to 2 is hard for the office
BD-FOR-P!
by BDForPresident on
Jan 6, 2009 6:46 PM PST
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Oh how I wish you'd taken that extended vacation...
You really believe this crap you write Atma?
My word… please save us from anymore of your wonderfully superficial analysis and be true to your word and make another diva-esque departure from GSoM…
"To be a great champion you must believe you are the best. If you're not, pretend you are." - Muhammad Ali
by Dubs Wise on
Jan 6, 2009 6:51 PM PST
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This is stupid...
There are no quotes or actual facts supporting this… its purely speculation. I hate all this “a source close to Monta Ellis” crap. I just heard Monta himself on video saying that everything is ok but im supposed to believe TK with no quotes or facts?
by who is daniel on
Jan 6, 2009 6:58 PM PST
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Doubtfull anyone would give Monta much money this season
Unless he played and showed he was as good as last year.
As for AR – after putting kurz in front of him, should play him against the Lakers a bit to see how good he can play in front of fans.
by mosdl on
Jan 6, 2009 7:01 PM PST
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randolph over nelson in 2009
sorry. i’m not saying that randolph is a sure star like webber, but he doesn’t have to be. nellie has lost his mind. i’ve got zero confidence that he can develop this team. i know nelson’s track record, but what are you seeing on court that makes you think he’s the right coach for this team?
by g8tgod on
Jan 6, 2009 7:33 PM PST
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I’m seeing a bunch of D-leaguers, undrafted rooks, and “perennial losers” compete and overachieve.
by antihero on
Jan 6, 2009 8:26 PM PST
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I see the same thing. It’s kind of pathetic and embarrasing to see the CJ-Kelenna-Morrow-Kurz-Turiaf lineup.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
by kenntoe on
Jan 6, 2009 8:56 PM PST
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yep
I like to count how many d leaguers and undrafted players we have on the court sometimes, its kinda fun when theres nothing else to do cause you’re losing. Maybe we can get CJ, Buike, Kurz, Morrow and that new Jarmero guy on the floor at the same time, and really rep the d league! Seriously, when half the team is not wanted or released from other teams in the nba, can u really expect to win? I’ll tell you this and know its true, Monta coming back isnt going to make d-leaguers play like nba players. How do the warriors expect to beat NBA teams without NBA caliber players? I’m surprised there hasn’t been more attention drawn to that.
"Maybe I need somebody that can save me from the parts of myself that keep making me crazy" -Slug-
by drizztismoneybaby on
Jan 7, 2009 7:41 AM PST
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Anybody ever played the
“Drink everytime a D-League call-up scores a basket?”
With most teams, you can play it with shots of hard stuff… you can’t with the Warriors.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on
Jan 7, 2009 7:51 AM PST
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you can’t with the Warriors.
Haha, You’d die drinking water if we played that game here.
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on
Jan 7, 2009 11:33 AM PST
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Hahaha. Nice drinking game. Don’t forget that Stephen Jackson was also undrafted.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
by kenntoe on
Jan 7, 2009 12:54 PM PST
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I'm sick and tired
of Kawakami and his nonsense. Atma, you’re doing a disservice to the public by repeating his unfounded gossip as anything other than what it is: an attempt to grab headlines to promote his own name.
by ffgolden on
Jan 6, 2009 7:58 PM PST
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Atma, my man
why do you got Nellie’s back so stubbornly? Sure he helped bring us one unforgettable playoff series win but thats the past. This year he has helped burn the front office down into the nightmare that it is currently in. And now Nellie has somehow brought that discontent down to the court.
I have no clue what Nelson is trying to do but it clearly is NOT winning or developing our team for the future.
What is the status of our petitions to fire Robert Rowell and have Chris Cohan commit Hari Kiri, or at least sell the team?
by warriorsscore110 on
Jan 6, 2009 7:59 PM PST
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why do you got Nellie’s back so stubbornly?
Because I lived through The Dirty Dozen: Part 1 | 2 | 3
- Bob Lanier (nice guy, just manning the ship for a few months)
- Rick Adelman (very good coach, but he has some awful teams to work with)
- PJ Carlesimo (player’s coach- not)
- Gary St. Jean (poor coach and even poorer GM aside from that 02 draft)
- Dave Cowens (never could set on a rotation)
- Brian Winters (very forgettable tenure)
- Eric Musselman (decent coach who got a raw deal from Rowell and Mullin didn’t seem to like him personally)
- Mike Montgomery (publicity stunt by Cohan and Mullin waited about 9 months too late to fire him)
I had the biggest grudge against Nellie for 12 years post-Webber, but he’s the best thing to happen to this franchise since that CWebb-Penny swap in 1993. He’s so good he actually took a Cohan owned team to the playoffs- TWICE. There’s 8 other NBA coaches who couldn’t do that.
Nellie has his faults, but he’s undeniably a hoops mastermind and has rebuilt several franchises. For all the Nellie haters- please name a better coaching candidate who would realistically and come work for Cohan under Rowell. You’ll find more NFL coaches who will work under Al Davis.
Also name me a coach who has a track record of mythically developing players. Head coaches don’t develop players into stars and starters- players have to work hard and have talent. Do you really believe Phil Jackson developed Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, or Kobe? Do you really believe Pop developed Duncan? And no Doc didn’t develop KG, Pierce, or Ray Allen.
Nellie put Monta Ellis and Andris Biedrins in positions where they could succeed, but both of those guys worked hard and had a ton of talent (Monta has incredible speed and finishing ability, Biedrins has a knack for finishing and cleaning up the glass). They earned their playing time fair and square in their third seasons. They weren’t given gifts like folks seem to want to hand out to the Warriors rooks and sophs. Nellie knows how to spot talent and when to give them playing time. I have an extremely hard time believing that the average fan who’s never been to practice or journalists who probably can’t even diagram a single play in the Warriors handbook knows better than him.
Fire Nellie right now and you might, might get a little short term boost like the team got with Bob “NBA Cares” Lanier back in 1995, but in the long run it’s a bad, bad move. Bring in Phil Jackson, Jerry Sloan, Larry Brown, Mike D’Antoni, Greg Popovich maybe even Eddie Jordan and we’ll talk. Until then firing Nellie does nothing.
For every FIRE NELLIE chant that the delusional (mostly bandwagon) crowd throws out, how about listing in ALL CAPS a realistic coach who is an improvement. And no I don’t buy Keith Smart who has a career 9-31 record as a head coach in the NBA.
Firing Nellie because he doesn’t give gift minutes to a #14 pick who has played pretty poorly and doesn’t even seem to have the backing of his teammates a real head scratcher.
by Atma Brother ONE on
Jan 6, 2009 9:25 PM PST
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eddie jordan
had a remarkably similar situation to nelson this year, and was unfairly fired. (i posted something similar to this a few weeks back, so apologies to those of you who are re-reading it) he lost his star player, and his team lost a bunch of games. he has a rep for never coaching defense and only caring about offense, but in all fairness, never had a great defensive lineup to work with, but always had scorers around. when his team couldn’t win any games because they still lacked defenders, but now didn’t have a great scorer at the point to make up for that (to an extent), he got canned. i felt bad for him when it happened and he had butler and jamison to work with. nellie just has biedrins and a bunch of chuckers. despite that, he managed a much better record than jordan. when nellie rides off into the sunset, i’d love to bring jordan in. i think he’s a really good coach. i’m just not down for firing nelson to get him.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on
Jan 6, 2009 9:52 PM PST
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Agreed on all accounts about Eddie Jordan
when nellie rides off into the sunset, i’d love to bring jordan in. i think he’s a really good coach. i’m just not down for firing nelson to get him.
But Jordan’s going to have his choice of teams this summer. I really doubt he’d come to the Warriors (Cohan/ Rowell/ talentless roster compared to the rest of the West) over those squads.
by Atma Brother ONE on
Jan 6, 2009 10:01 PM PST
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you can't compare eddie jordan and don nelson based on a similar situation
we dont have a single player that is as good as either caron butler or antawn jamison. not one. stephen jackson comes the closest and even he’s pretty distant. the wizards have two PERENNIAL ALL STARS on their team. eddie jordan never did squat with 3 allstars on his team, year after year after year of mediocre records and early playoff exits. jordan deserved to get fired. nelson doesn’t.
by HoLdEmUP on
Jan 6, 2009 11:28 PM PST
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umm...
i never called for nelson’s head, in fact, i said he was having a better year than jordan when jordan was fired. i also never said that they were equally good at coaching (i’m not sure if that’s what you’re implying with this post, but if not, i guess i missed the point). i just said that given the injury to gil, you don’t fire him that early in the season. and as for the playoff failings, he only had those three guys and they took on the one man firestorm named lebron james and played relatively well. it’s tough to hate him that much for not getting past those cavs teams, who were simply the better team. they rarely had their three stars playing at once, because at least one was usually hurt and the team suffered. so, there’s your mediocre records right there. i’d have hung on to eddie jordan. i also want to hang on to don nelson.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on
Jan 6, 2009 11:38 PM PST
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Gilbert Arenas hasn't been healthy in 3 years.
It’s funny that he just got a 120M extension. I can’t tell if that’s worse than Rashard Lewis or not. Any opinions?
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on
Jan 7, 2009 7:30 AM PST
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probably worse. if gil comes back healthy (and i hope he does, i really like the guy), it’d be a different story, but after all those years, it’s tough to be confident in that. what were they thinking? and for that matter, what were we thinking offering him an even bigger deal? good thing he wanted to win in dc…
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on
Jan 7, 2009 9:30 AM PST
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The thing about Rashard Lewis,
is that he really is a good player and solid defender that can bring alot of things to the court. He also s relatively healthy. Sure, he is grossly overpaid but that shouldnt shadow the fact that he is a big part on Orlando’s success this year.
What is the status of our petitions to fire Robert Rowell and have Chris Cohan commit Hari Kiri, or at least sell the team?
by warriorsscore110 on
Jan 7, 2009 10:32 AM PST
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Atma... you got it right
Man the Warriors…. I didn’t think they were such bandwagoners. If they can trade Monta that would be ideal, but who are we kidding. With 2010 coming up we are likely to move Monta as we are to move Corey Maggette. That said the Warriors aren’t even tanking enough to lock in a top 5 pick. And even if we did Mully’s had a hit and miss draft history. Personally, I think it’s time to let Mully go to the Knicks and reunit with Donnie Walsh. Let’s see where Nellie can take us and if crash like the hindenburg then atleast we’ll hit rock bottom rather than the 25 to 30 win mediocrity that the Dubs walked through the mid-90s to mid-2000’s in.
A Sonics fan without a team.. Though I'm auditioning GS Warriors this season.
by mcwalter44 on
Jan 6, 2009 9:56 PM PST
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Firing Nellie because he doesn’t give gift minutes to a #14 pick who has played pretty poorly and doesn’t even seem to have the backing of his teammates a real head scratcher.
Firing Nellie cause he let them run off Jason does make sense though. and contrary to popular belief Rudolf doesn’t have an attitude problem, Nellie does, why do you think Webber left? Nellie doesn’t understand how to get the best out of young players which is not a good thing when we have a young team. We need someone who can connect with them and build the team, not build a soap opera about himself.
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on
Jan 6, 2009 9:56 PM PST
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contrary to popular belief
you mean his teammates’ belief?
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on
Jan 6, 2009 9:59 PM PST
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You know my man- to this day Don Nelson is the only member of the Warriors organization who has publicly stated that he really misses Jason Richardson and what he brought night in and night out. He’s the only one who said last season during that inflated 48 win total that the team was actually better during the previous We Believe season since they had Jason Richardson. I can respect that.
by Atma Brother ONE on
Jan 6, 2009 10:05 PM PST
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Can you really believe anything that comes out of Nellie' mouth?
Nelson had to ok the JRich trade, I just don’t see Mullin pulling the trigger without atleast a thumbs up from Nelson.
What is the status of our petitions to fire Robert Rowell and have Chris Cohan commit Hari Kiri, or at least sell the team?
by warriorsscore110 on
Jan 7, 2009 10:35 AM PST
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I just don’t see Mullin pulling the trigger without atleast a thumbs up from Nelson.
for sure, and if nellie doesn’t have that power then he’s a useless pawn.
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on
Jan 7, 2009 11:36 AM PST
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I believe development does rely mostly on the player. But, Nelson just plays too many mind games with the young players that instead of lighting a fire under their asses, sometimes it just leaves the players disgruntled. Nellie does not give gift minutes, that’s for sure. But he also doesn’t give quality minutes to guys who’ve actually proved to be pretty efficient on the court (yes i’m looking at Brandan Wright here).
I believe Nelson only starts Wright just to say he gave him minutes to silence all the Pro-Wright writers out there.
Nelson may be a good judge of talent (the Drafting of Dirk and trade for Nash as examples), but for this team, which is all i care about, he’s clearly not playing the most talented players. We’re losing with the same players every game and its not even funny. Coaches need to adapt and try new things when the team’s struggling. And at 10-26, we’ve clearly not been making the right changes.
I don’t believe in justifying Nelson’s actions just because the replacement wouldn’t be any better. Nelson hasn’t brought out the best in this team, and it’s not all his fault—i truly believe that Nelson can’t coach a young team.
Nellie also wanted to give up on Monta before the 2007 draft for Acie Law IV. And also didn’t want to play Biedrins but was forced to because the thought of Adonal Foyle out there was just to much to bear.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
by kenntoe on
Jan 6, 2009 10:03 PM PST
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Putting aside Wright’s poor rebounding this season and still inability to execute the right plays, the mind games that ALL good coaches play (Phil Jackson, Jerry Sloan, Larry Brown, etc), and the curious reasoning that Nellie is trying to appease sportswriter, and ignoring all his praise for Biedrins back in 07, name me a coach who can coach a young team well. I’m open to suggestions.
Young teams don’t win this league. Good coaches know that. Coaches who go all young to mythically develop their roster get canned within a season or two because of their sorry win totals. PJ Carlesimo’s the best recent example.
To date I don’t think I’ve seen a championship team that mythically developed its young players. You either trade for a superstar (KG) or draft one (Duncan). Trying to develop mediocre or raw young talents isn’t a proven strategy for success in this league. Rarely do you see a guy like Monta Ellis who was drafted late and might, might have superstar potential.
by Atma Brother ONE on
Jan 6, 2009 10:13 PM PST
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I totally agree. Champions aren’t young teams. Good teams aren’t young teams. Shoot, even .500 teams is a stretch for most young teams.
But you cannot tell me that the trio of Jack, Craw and Maggette should be the foundations of what we hope to right this ship? They are already a proven commodity and probably won’t get any better. They are what they are. On the other side of that, you don’t know what you have in Wright and Randolph. These are the guys who we need to decide if they are the players to move forward with or make move with to bring in someone better. Not playing them a lick does absolutely nothing. We don’t find out if they can be a player for our team, and we don’t improve their stock with other teams.
Phil Jackson, and Jerry Sloan also have veteran laden teams. They don’t have the amount of raw young players that Don Nelson has. Mind games may help with guys that are already established in the NBA, although it didn’t with Al. If we were in the hunt for a playoff spot, I can see the justification with not playing the rooks (like Wright and Belli were basically red shirted last year), but on a 10-26 team, there’s no excuse for them not seeing more minutes. Even if it costs us some games—which Nelson admitted to at the start of the season—we can’t have another wasted year of non-development. It doesn’t help the team, nor does it help their trade value.
I don’t know what coach to bring in, but i do know that Nelson is not the right coach right now. And as of right now they’re not doing anything to improve the value of this team.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
by kenntoe on
Jan 6, 2009 10:30 PM PST
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These are the guys who we need to decide if they are the players to move forward with or make move with to bring in someone better. Not playing them a lick does absolutely nothing. We don’t find out if they can be a player for our team, and we don’t improve their stock with other teams.
“WE” don’t need to decide anything. Nellie needs to decide since he’s the only one in the Warriors current power structure who has the ability to assess talent and project NBA careers. He watches them all the time.
I don’t know what coach to bring in, but i do know that Nelson is not the right coach right now.
But again until there’s viable candidates (I’m open to suggestions) you don’t fire a hall of fame caliber coach, especially when the front office (Mullin/ Rowell) have proven to be extremely clueless without him.
The reason why it’s so hard to name the “right coach right now” is that there is NO right coach for this mess. It’s not a coaching problem, it’s a talent problem.
Again see Lanier, Bob.
by Atma Brother ONE on
Jan 6, 2009 10:37 PM PST
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It is a talent problem. A talent problem because we are relying on Crawford, Jackson and Maggette to lead this team. Dealing for Crawford is looking worse and worse everyday. And you better believe that i think Nellie had the ear of Riley and convinced Rowell that they should trade for Crawford. I would’ve preferred the expiring contract of Malik Rose and maybe a 2nd rounder instead. At least then we wouldn’t have yet another chucker on this team and have more room for Belinelli and Monta when he comes back. Now when he does find his way back to the court, we’ll also have Crawford, Belinelli, CJ, Kelenna, Jackson and Maggette to spread the minutes around.
I think this was a result in Nelson’s desire to milk every win out of this team this year. Even if it means burning out the starters and mishandling the young players. I just really don’t care for another mediocre year. But if we really are going to be bad, we might as well just rack up the losses and hope for the number one.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
by kenntoe on
Jan 6, 2009 10:59 PM PST
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It is a talent problem. A talent problem because we are relying on Crawford, Jackson and Maggette to lead this team.
That’s Mullin and Rowell’s fault, not Nellie’s. Those 3 guys give the Warriors the best chance to win night in and night out. I somewhat buy the “just tank it” strategy, but that doesn’t mean you bench those 3 to given undeserved playing time for rooks and sophs who Nellie doesn’t think are ready. That’s not good for the long term “growth” of those players.
Dealing for Crawford is looking worse and worse everyday. And you better believe that i think Nellie had the ear of Riley and convinced Rowell that they should trade for Crawford.
Tim’s reporting says it was all Mullin behind that deal, so I’m curious why you think it was Nellie’s fault.
Winners and losers in Warriors’ Harrington-for-Crawford deal
WINNER: Chris Mullin, who made this deal for Crawford, a player Mullin has always liked.
I hear that the Knicks first proposed Crawford-for-Harrington over a week ago, right as Robert Rowell was moving Larry Riley into the presumptive GM spot. That put the NY talks on hold, as Riley tried to make his own deal for Harrington. (Jerry Stackhouse’s name came up.)
But in the end, there was no better deal than the one Mullin and Knick honcho Donnie Walsh fashioned earlier in the month: Jamal Crawford. The deal Mullin made.
Plus, it’s not clear Walsh would even talk trade with any other Warriors executive except Mullin, which is not exactly a salute to Riley, Nelson or Rowell.
by Atma Brother ONE on
Jan 6, 2009 11:13 PM PST
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hmmm
I forgot what TK wrote back in November. I was under the impression that Mullin was nowhere near the Craw-Al deal.
Via Steinmentz:
Mullin also used to be a regular at Warriors home games, sitting in his usual mezzanine suite high above the Warriors’ bench. He’s hit or miss these days, and when Mullin isn’t there he’s assumed to be scouting a college game somewhere.
All this is significant because when and if the Warriors make a personnel move, Mullin isn’t going to be in on it. Just like he wasn’t in on the Jamal Crawford trade. Or other recent moves.
Mullin mostly saw the Crawford deal develop from afar, even though he was said to be in on early talks with the Knicks about Al Harrington. But when the deal came down, Mullin wasn’t involved or consulted.
And he won’t be on the next one … and probably the one after that.
Will Riley-Nelson team have vision for future or is it about the here and now?
That’s why i believed that Nelson wanted Crawford because he was a veteran, the best they could get at the time, and is a versatile guard.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
by kenntoe on
Jan 6, 2009 11:33 PM PST
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Haha
Good digging.
All I can say my friend is… what a mess. What a mess indeed.
by Atma Brother ONE on
Jan 6, 2009 11:35 PM PST
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ugh
so not even the team’s beat writers know who’s running the show. this is embarrassing.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on
Jan 6, 2009 11:39 PM PST
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this is embarrassing.
sorta like the evolving Obama presidency?
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on
Jan 6, 2009 11:42 PM PST
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kind of
you know, good enough to get everyone excited, only to get back to what we’re all used to in a hurry.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on
Jan 6, 2009 11:44 PM PST
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good enough to get everyone excited, only to get back to what we’re all used to in a hurry.
Yeah, I guess I expected too much, don’t know why but after all these years I still had hope.
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on
Jan 7, 2009 11:38 AM PST
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How hopeful of you
To write him off before he’s even taken office… ;-P
Even as a class A cynic, I understand that optimism is often a self-fulfilling prophecy. And the converse.
OBAMA AMABO
by Sleepy Freud on
Jan 7, 2009 1:03 PM PST
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To write him off before he’s even taken office… ;-P
Well his asking that conservative bigot to pray for him was a danger sign as well as his apparent softness on letting Israel continue to de-stabilize that area.
I was hoping he’s go for the win instead of the show but I guess he’s just another politician in reformers clothing.
I do like panetta for cia director since he’s a local boy and might have some understanding of the diverse modern world.
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on
Jan 8, 2009 4:25 PM PST
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for once i agree with you. but realistically
how much can you expect from a politician.
and he does have to bring the country together, not divide it further, so taking ultra liberal moves would only do that. but i get what you’re saying and i wish he would do something about the israel gaza situation and not just comply with the allies just cuz theyre allies. and who know why hes got that idiot at his inaugaration
by montamazing on
Jan 9, 2009 5:41 AM PST
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Again, he's NOT PRESIDENT YET.
I think most of us are horrified and sickened by what Israel is doing right now; and we have no idea how BHO will deal with the crisis as President. Already there are signs he may break with the 24/7 pro-Israel orthodoxy of previous administrations.
The incoming Obama administration is prepared to abandon George Bush’s doctrine of isolating Hamas by establishing a channel to the Islamist organisation, sources close to the transition team say.
The move to open contacts with Hamas, which could be initiated through the US intelligence services, would represent a definitive break with the Bush presidency’s ostracising of the group. The state department has designated Hamas a terrorist organisation, and in 2006 Congress passed a law banning US financial aid to the group.
-- That’s my opinion. Hate it or love it.
-- I’m actually going to dry-hump it if you don’t mind.
by Sleepy Freud on
Jan 10, 2009 9:57 AM PST
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Sometimes
Developing a young player involves more than just playing them “if they earn their minutes”. A certain 13th overall pick in the 1997 season didn’t do much to earn minutes, in fact he shot just 41% from the field. But a certain coach who is far more disiplined and patient than Nellie stuck with this player despite his poor stats and key missed shots in the playoffs. Im not saying Anthony Randolph will be as good as this player, but the way Phil Jackson was patient with Kobe Bryant should be a lesson to our current coach.
"Rosa Parks sat so Martin could walk. Martin walked so Obama could run. Obama ran so we could all fly. Let's get fly."
by marzorg on
Jan 7, 2009 7:10 AM PST
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stay strong! you are the voice of reason!
i, on the other hand, am crazy with anger!!!!!!!!!!!! fire the coach? are you f*cking kidding me? that’s all you people can come up with!?!? that is just the most coca-cola, middle-america, idiotic viewpoint. fire nellie, and then what? i’ll tell you what! the dubs start going through coaches like 49ers offensive coordinators, that’s what!
i mean, i could understand if these comments were being made in a casual conversation on the street, but you people JOINED this website. you had to come up with a password and everything! surely you must have SOME vague memory fragment of the warriors previous EIGHT COACHES!!!!!! they were beyond horrible! do you peope want another pj carlesimo!?!? i don’t care if nellie bends randolph over his knee and spanks him in front of the entire team. that’s STILL better than some bumbling interim coach with his head up his ass!
phew. sorry….
josh Howard 4 President! We need a REAL black man in the white house!
by The Bimbo Coles Experience on
Jan 7, 2009 6:08 PM PST
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why do u have such low expectations from ur team?
strive for perfection, dont settle for crap
by DeepS on
Jan 8, 2009 12:01 AM PST
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but
why fire someone for being stuck with crap? i’d prefer to hang onto the coach, who legitimately knows who to coach an nba team, than turn the keys over to some mediocre or worse coach who will only botch the situation further. perfection isn’t possible until we have a good set of players, that’s why we’re losing. not don nelson.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on
Jan 8, 2009 12:43 AM PST
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What about...
Fire Nellie…Hire a new coach. And then perhaps see if we can appreciate Nellie? If that new coach doesn’t meet our insane demands….
by Shells on
Jan 6, 2009 9:55 PM PST
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Foolish
Rowell isn’t backing Mully either. Therefore you’d need to not only a new GM and new Coach, but also someone to work with our VP of Basketball operations so that we have a basketball person influencing the organization. If you want to fire Nellie, please give us not only coaching suggestions for replacements. But also GM suggestions whether it is to retain Mullen or bring in somebody else.
A Sonics fan without a team.. Though I'm auditioning GS Warriors this season.
by mcwalter44 on
Jan 6, 2009 10:01 PM PST
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I know this has a low chance of happening but,
I’d love to see the Warriors steal Tom Thibodeau away from the Celtics. This man could turn the Warriors from defensive doormat to defensively competent. He’s an East Coast guy however, so probably a pipe dream.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
by kenntoe on
Jan 6, 2009 10:21 PM PST
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he definitely deserves a shot somewhere. it would not shock me to learn that he got a head coaching job soon. possibly this offseason. the problem is convincing him to come here if that was the call the team made. he’s got a good situation in boston, where kg may or may not be the entire reason for his success (tough to ignore that adding a dpoy really helps your defense) and there are a few teams who are no doubt interested. it’s a risky move for the team that makes it, but one that could work out. i’d rather hang on to nelson than roll the dice on thibodeau.
also, there are teams with coaching vacancies (counting all the interm coaching situations as vacancies) that would want him a lot more and could offer a more attractive landing spot. washington comes to mind and would be an interesting test for him. could he turn a roster with very little defensive talent into a respectable defensive team? my guess is that we’ll find out soon, wherever he ends up.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on
Jan 6, 2009 10:30 PM PST
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I was thinking Washington too if a call were to go out to Thibodeau. He also was an assistant for Houston before coming over to Boston. Houston has always been tops in the league in defensive categories.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
by kenntoe on
Jan 6, 2009 10:33 PM PST
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houston is another team with lots of good defenders. don’t get me wrong, i’m not saying that he can’t coach, i’m just saying it’s easy to look like a genius when you’re on a team loaded with the sort of talent that happens to be within your speciality. i think he can be a successful coach, but just don’t know how much he’ll really help a team. 2/3s of nba coaches are a wash for win totals. they won’t add or subtract any. it’s got a lot more to do with your roster than your coach. a few coaches will get you a couple extra wins per year, and a few will cost you some. my guess is that thidodeau will fall into the 2/3s category, meaning that any of the terribly coached nba teams would love to have him.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on
Jan 6, 2009 10:39 PM PST
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duh! arrrrrgh angry again....
josh Howard 4 President! We need a REAL black man in the white house!
by The Bimbo Coles Experience on
Jan 7, 2009 6:09 PM PST
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Geoff Lepper Article on the subject
http://48minutes.net/2009/01/06/monta-chomping-at-the-bit-to-get-back-nelson-says/
Claims Monta is eager to play and that the original story is a bit faulty – it wasn’t Nelson who didn’t play Ellis his rookie year ,since it was Montgomery who was coach then.
BTW – celts loose to bobcats and thunder beat the knicks. This season is getting weird.
by mosdl on
Jan 6, 2009 11:04 PM PST
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TK hasn't written anything postive about our team in a LONG TIME.
I’ve always been a fan of his blog, but lately it seems like all this negative journalism (if you even call it) is a product of the excitement and foot traffic he’s received since reporting the Baron summer-soap opera and calling out Robert Rowell.
But if this is all true (which i highly doubt), Monta leaving will be a much more painful dagger than Baron’s. It’s just the deteriorating vibe of it all.
However, i still don’t believe firing Nellie will solve anything.
by DubCurse on
Jan 6, 2009 11:27 PM PST
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even for TK that article was a bit much
and that’s saying something.
We can’t judge this team until Monta comes back and we see the team for a good 2-3 months together. Until then its all just filler.
Carry on
"They can trade me," Bonds said. "I don't think they will, though. It's not like I want to be traded, man. I'm a Giant. I'm stuck here till the end."
by GameSix on
Jan 7, 2009 7:26 AM PST
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Good Sense
It was good to read your post, Atma. I wish you were writing a column at the Mercury News. TK’s reporting is indefensible, though you have professed to like it. When hysteria sets the table, it generally breeds more of same. Good to see in this case some good sense appear miraculously.
by Marques8 on
Jan 7, 2009 10:10 AM PST
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It is a complete debacle,
the Warriors need to stand pat with the roster and have RR hire a new gm after the season and put said gm in charge of all basketball operations, yes including who are coach is. My biggest fear is that Larry Riley is titled GM and becomes the inbetween guy(stoog) between Nellie and RR.
What is the status of our petitions to fire Robert Rowell and have Chris Cohan commit Hari Kiri, or at least sell the team?
by warriorsscore110 on
Jan 7, 2009 10:52 AM PST
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