How to make a Jackson trade work with Cleveland. Minnesota?
by Warriors82 on Oct 29, 2009 12:13 PM PDT
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PrintCleveland is desperate that is obvious, everyone knows they are interested in Jackson. The warriors would love to get away with Big Z and his expiring contract leading into the summer of 2010. It's been all over the news, yet there seem to be some obstacles.
The Cavs are counting on Big Z in case Shaq goes down or as an alternative to the big guy in games. Shaq can bang down low and Big Z can shoot. But both centers have a common problem. Both guys are slow on the high screen roll and have become a liability to the team defensively. Based off what I saw in their first two games, it looks like this inabilty to cover the pick and roll has cost the Cavs both games. In fact, the Cavs went on there biggest run in Toronto last night in the 3rd quarter with Lebron at PF and Varejao at C. It is clear that the Cavs should be very concerned with the quickness of the 2 big men. Ideally they are looking for another C in the trade to who has a jump shot, can block shots on the defensive end and has better lateral quickness than either Shaq or Big Z.
The warriors don't want to give up any of their big guys (Turiaf), so it is time to look around the league at other teams. I think the best fit for this third team would be the Timberwolves and Mark Blount.
Blount has a nice jump shot and is a defensive upgrade on the screen roll over either of their current centers. He has a 7.9 millon expiring contract so the Cavs can save some money based off what they think they will be playing Lebron in one year. Blount is a veteran who has been around the league, I think he would be a good addition for the Cavs. Minnesota has depth at the C position with Love, Jefferson, & Hollins. Blount is headed out of town at the end of the year anyways.
The warriors would send Claxton and George to Minny. Claxton gives them a thrid PG and his 5 million comes off the books after the year. George gives them another swingman to go with Brewer and Gomes and his 1.5 million comes off the books at the end of the year. Basically, they add more vets as backups at different postions. Hopefully sell them on the idea of Calxton as a veteran tutor to the two young guys. The cavs would also have to send JJ Hickson to Minnesota. JJ Hickson is a young PF who could give Minny another project young big man to add to the collection. The Cavs would need to swallow losing this guy in the hopes that Powe (when healthy), Darnell Jackson (who is fat), and Blount can replace his production.
The warriors get the expiring contract of Big Z, and only lose Jackson, Claxton, George, and maybe a secound round pick to get the Twolves to agree to the deal. The Cavs get Jackson plus Blount while only losing Big Z and JJ Hickson. Minny gets expiring contracts and a young project PF in Hickson along with a warriors 2nd round choice.
Seems like Minnesota makes a nice partner for this threesome to work. How do we get this to management?
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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how do you suggest we get boozer? if it’s “trade jack for him”, good luck to you, but that’s never going to happen. jack’s trade value is next to nothing, expect to get next to nothing in return for him.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I DID A FANPOST BUT IT DISSAPEARED SO HERE'S HOW
JACK, CLAXTON, AND K. FESENKO TO CLE
ILGAUSKUS AND D. JACKSON TO UTAH
BOOZER TO US
CLEVELAND GETS JACK WHICH THEY WANT AND A BACK UP CENTER IN FESENKO
UTAH GETS BETTER SIZE TO GO UP AGAINST THE LAKERS AND MORE PT AVAIL. FOR MILLSAP
WE GET RID OF OUR HEADACHE AND FILL OUR VOID AT PF. BOOZER IS IN FINAL YEAR OF CONTRACT SO IF WE DON’T WANT TO RE-SIGN HIM FINE, BUT HE WOULD HELP A LOT THIS YEAR. CONTRACT WISE IT’S GREAT FOR ALL BECAUSE ALL BUT THE JACKSONS ARE IN THE FINAL YEAR OF CONTRACT. CLEVELAND IS APPARENTLY WILLING TO TAKE ON JACKS 3 YEARS AND D. JACKSON ONLY HAS 1 MORE YEAR AT 800K SO THATS A NON ISSUE. DO YOU NOT FEEL UTAH AND/OR CLEVELAND WOULD NOT SEE THIS AS BENEFICIAL TO BOTH?
If getting Boozer will help you locate the caps lock key, then I’d be all for it.
Hm, is WYK a code name for jae…?
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Oct 29, 2009 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions
utah doesn’t do it. they give up boozer for almost nothing in that deal.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
LOOK no caps
so u don’t think Ilgauskus helps them more than boozer this year against the lakers? they both fa’s after the season if they want boozer back they can offer him money after the season, he wouldn’t be too likely to re-sign with us anyways. and i wouldn’t likely want him back with us either.
i really don’t think ilgauskas helps them more. how is z going to handle odom or gasol? the lakers front line isn’t just big, it’s quick and it’s skilled and z is moves like he has concrete legs. he is not exactly a shutdown defender and he’s far worse than boozer on the offensive end.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
No caps is better than all caps, but I think we’d all appreciate appropriate caps.
by deff bridges on Oct 29, 2009 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Jazz don’t need Ilgauskus. Boozer is better than him, too.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
personally i'm surprised Rip 4 boozer hasn't gone down
benefits both sides…
Mark Blount? Seriously?
Does he still have a pulse? I don’t think he’s even on the active roster for Minnesota, who are missing Kevin Love and are enough in need of front court help that they played Brian Cardinal and Ryan Hollins a combined 42 minutes last night. I don’t think Cleveland’s gonna bite for Blount.
cardinal would actually make a lot more sense for them in a deal like that. he’s not particularly good at anything, but he’s scrappy and runs after whoever he’s supposed to be guarding.
moral of the story: there has to be a better third team than the wolves for this deal to work.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Since the first game is over, it's time to start thinking crazy thoughts.
While it seems crazy, I would like it. I just don’t think Monta is a long-term solution as a franchise player. He doesn’t have a high enough basketball IQ to be a true leader, and needs to be on a team that struggles offensively to be effective (like Iverson when he played with Snow and Mutumbo).
The Rockets get some help for this season, including a guy that can play center that is over 6’6".
The Cavs get some offense.
At best, we get a true game-changer. At worst, we open up minutes for our young guys and tons of cap space next year.
Chances of this actually happening: 0%. The Warriors are set with Monta as the franchise player, and the coaching staff loves Maggette for some reason…
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Oct 29, 2009 1:42 PM PDT reply actions
SO WHEN TMAC DOESN'T RESIGN WITH US WE ESSENTIALLY GET NOTHING FOR MONTA AND MAGGETTE?
DON’T TRY AND USE CAP SPACE AS A POINT CAUSE NOT MANY TOP NOTCH PLAYERS WANT TO COME HERE!
HORRIBLE IDEA
MANY TOP NOTCH PLAYERS WANT TO COME HERE!
That is a loser’s mentality. If that’s how the Warriors front office thinks, why even be in the business? With 23M off the books, many possibilities become available.
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Oct 29, 2009 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
except
if we trade mags and monta for nothing we’ll win 20 games max. And what premier fre agent is gonna come here?
Lebron?
Dwade?
Amare?
Bosh?
Ray Allen?
I can’t remember who else but my answer to all is no. You have to win a little to attract free agents especially when you’ve been so DOWN as warriors have. If we believe had led to consecutive playoff berths, i bet amare would have came. …. but no we had a little success, sold it off and back to the cellar
The problem is ...
That the top players are going to have their choice of max offers. If they want the most money, they’ll stay where they are. If they want the biggest market, they’ll go to LA or NY.
The only other logical choice for them is to go to the team with the best chance of winning.
We’re going to learn a lot about what’s important to LeBron next offseason. He stays in Cleveland, loyalty matters to him. He goes to NY or the Lakers, money is the most important thing. He goes to Portland or maybe the Clippers, winning matters the most. Those teams are set up to potentially win multiple titles adding his skills.
So the question becomes, what can the Warriors offer that tops what one of those teams can offer, and the answer is, right now, not much.
The issue isn’t quite so cut and dried with some of the other big names, but it’s not at all clear that Bosh or Amare transform our team in the same way.
Another horrible idea
Typing all caps repeatedly in the same fan post stream, because it’s “HORRIBLE IDEA.”
A Sonics fan without a team... but after 6 seasons now of GS Warriors season tickets have convinced me to adopt the boys from Oakland.
The point is you dump 23M in cap space. That’s A LOT. It’s not a horrible idea. It’s a great idea, except it’s a fantasy. Why would you want to resign McGracy anyway? His days are done for.
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
DUDE, ARE YOU SANELY THINKING THAT THE WARRIORS FRONT OFFICE
HAS ANY CLUE WHAT THEY ARE DOING? DO U FOLLOW THE WARRIORS? 23M IN CAP SPACE IS GREAT IF WE HAVE A NEW COACH, OWNER AND GM. WITHOUT THOSE NO STAR PLAYER IS GONNA COME HERE UNLESS WE ARE THEIR LAST RESORT. LEBRON, WADE, BOSCH, AMARE, THEY AINT COMING. MAYBE WE’D HAVE AN OUTSIDE CHANCE AT DIRK BUT AINT NOBODY ELSE OUT THERE GOOD ENOUGH TO MAKE US CONTENDERS!
so, the team should actively pursue worse options because they can’t trust themselves to make a good decision? we don’t have any assets worth much in a trade unless we’re willing to part ways with randolph, monta, biedrins or curry. odds are, they won’t net us a superstar either, so what possible course of action could we take to improve this team that doesn’t involve free agency? i don’t see one.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
if we can get boozer
then we are a playoff team this year and potential free agents can see that we have enough talent to be conteders with them whether or not we were to resign boozer. we have to get our young guys that playoff experience for potential fa’s to feel like the team can go further next season!
they'd want turiaf with jack before they considered...
what you do it? I think i would.
i don’t think boozer is at all realistic and your assumption that free agents wouldn’t be able to figure out that they can make a team better seems flawed at best.
for the most part, free agents go where the money is. only the very best teams can sign players at a discount for a run at a ring, and those guys tend to be vets who are past their primes and wouldn’t add that much to our team anyway. lots of money is appealing to everyone.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Utah MIGHT consider.....
Jack + expiring 4 kirilenko. If we gave devean and speedy they’d end up with 6-7 mil off the books next year compared to what kirilenko was gonna make.
i’d be down for that. jack doesn’t seem like a “sloan guy” but he’s exactly what they need. they are weak at the wings and don’t play much d. in the end, i think utah says no, but if we haven’t called them to ask about a deal like that, the FO is making a mistake.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
AK47
HOW DOES HE HELP US?(CAPS IS BACK)
HE’S TOO FRAIL TO PLAY THE 4, WE DON’T NEED ANYMORE 2’S OR 3’S. WE WANT AMMO AND BUIKE TO GET MORE PT, HE DON’T FIT.
he’s played better at the 4 than he has at the 3 over the years and he’s hardly a bad small forward. he fits fine.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
+1
He’s overpaid but it’s only 2 years. And he can do everything, which is kind of jack’s role, except he does it more efficiently. Good defender, better passer, better rebounder, more efficient scorer….
he doesn’t heat up or shoot the 3 well though, but he also knows not o take them.
And in our system i think he’d return to the AK47 who got that big deal, probably get closer to 15 ppg, 6-7.5 rebs (depending where he plays, 4-5 assists, steals blocks
i know i for one would love to see a few of those classic AK47 5×5s in the box score for us. he also seems like an obvious nellie guy. outside of his range, he’s perfect. he’s a big who runs the floor, defends well (maybe not a "nellie guy trait, but a definite need) and can play multiple positions. it’s almost too simple, really.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I'm willing to bet cohan would say no to luxury tax hit
unless we could DUMP MAGGETTE TOO (which at trade deadline might not be unfathomable to a contendeR)….. K now i’m in fantasy land too much….
but thought of this as minutes…
curry 34
monta 36
kirilenko 36
randolph 28
Biedrins 30
-—
Turiaf 18
Buike 24
Morrow 22
cj 12
funny side note
shortest backcourt, longest front court? lol
ha, yeah.
i was actually thinking about ideal trade destinations for maggs earlier. utah and washington were the best spots i could think of. portland is an outside possibility, but i don’t think they make a move for maggs. basically, teams that need some bench scoring and are playoff bound, but not any of the top 5 teams are the teams that we should be calling. i don’t see it happening, but that’s all i can think of.
that said, i don’t really mind maggs on this team. we don’t really have a respectable, pass-first point on the bench, and maggs being a black hole really simplifies the offense (in a pretty efficient way, really). it’s just the tax that makes him such a problem for us.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Yeah I agree on Mags...
My only point was if we did end up w/ kirilenko (which won’t happen) we’d be in luxury tax next year and I doubt our management would go for it. So we’d need some salary dump.
I love Corey’s ability to score and get to line, but I can take or leave him. And at 5/50 mil, i have NO problem leaving him, especially to increase PT for buike + Morrow
The ideal trade destination I came up with
was Orlando and Atlanta, they need someone who goes to the hole!
AK47 is a forward
he can play 3/4. We can play him and randolph and have length to spair. Or we can put him at 4, not be outsized too much (depending on team) and run
I tried to look on Jazz Blog and couldn't find anything
Is kirilenko still in the dog house? If he is that would make it a possibility, i jsut checked the numbers…
kirilenko is due to make 17.8 mil next season. Jack is due to make 8.4. That’d save them an additional 9.4 and put them at 46.5 (next season) as opposed to 55.9.
The thing that could ACTUALLY stop it from happening as sick as it may seem, is the Warriors!!! Between this year and next Kirilenko is due 34.2 million. Entering next year we’ve be at a payroll of near 64 which will CERTAINLY be luxury tax. IT’d only be one year but still… I don’t see cohan going for it
WHAT A BARGAIN AT THAT PRICE
THIS GUY HASN’T PLAYED MORE THAN 72 GAMES THE LAST 5 SEASONS, HOW HE GONNA LAST IN OUR FAST PACED STYLE OF PLAY. YOU WANNA PAY HIM 34 MIL FOR THE NEXT 2 SEASONS WHEN HE MAY PLAY 140 OF 160 GAMES AT MOST AND HE MIGHT HELP US GET TO THE PLAYOFFS BUT GIVES US NO REAL SHOT AT THE CONFERENCE FINALS. C’MON SON, CHILD PLEASE. OF COURSE COHEN AINT WILLING TO PAY THAT MUCH LUXURY TAX AND IF HE WAS WE SURE AS HELL BETTER GET SOMEONE BETTER THAN AK47.
Haha.
Where do we submit nominations for “Worst Post of the Month?”
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Oct 29, 2009 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions
?
your assumption that free agents wouldn’t be able to figure out that they can make a team better seems flawed at best.
HOW DID U DRAW THAT CONCLUSION FROM THAT STATEMENT? WHAT IM SAYIN IS WE WOULDN’T BE THE ONLY TEAM ABLE TO OFFER MAX MONEY AND THE PLAYER IS LIKELY TO GO TO THE TEAM THAT CAN GO DEEPEST IN THE PLAYOFFS IF THE MONEY IS THE SAME. NO ONES TALKIN BOUT SIGNING SOMEONE AT A DISCOUNT.
offers are almost never equal. if we have the money to go get someone good, we’ll go get someone good. worrying about tie breaking with better teams is a waste of a worry.
we won’t be able to go get a max money free agent no matter what. i’m not talking about lebron or wade, because it’s not going to happen. look at second or third tier guys who can help us win. those are the guys we’d be able to get. put the superstar pipedreams away.
and you didn’t address my main point, with boozer gone, we’d have the same team as we’d have if we went and got z. are you banking on free agents being tricked into thinking boozer will still be here next season? i really don’t see the logic in saying that.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I decided to simulate both rosters through the season on 2k10… The line-up and roster that we currently have went 41-41 good for 7th seed in the playoffs, had zero all-stars, and Curry was the ROY. The trade for T-Mac, which I simplified by sending all our wings straight to the Rockets instead of a 3-way because I couldn’t force the Cavs to waive people, ended up with a 32-50 team, missed the playoffs, only won 1 game in March, but had two all-stars, and again Curry was ROY. Interestingly, Biedrins was one of the all-stars, and made the all nba 3rd team, (I guess having Curry be the main man on offense pays for getting others involved). Curry was the other all-star.
In conclusion, a video game says we’d be a worse team right now, which I agree with. However, we weren’t that much worse than it predicted with our veterans, and our young guys would get another year full of PT under their belts.
It might just be me, but unless the veterans decide to share the ball, I’d be much more interested in watching a struggling team play an actual team game, than a slightly better team playing iso-basketball all year.
To reiterate, do I want to see us part with Monta, Maggs, and Jack for salary relief? No. I want to see our team share the ball successfully. It’s up to them if they want to do that. If Jack, Maggs, and Monta each want 20 shots a game, then I don’t want to watch them play. A lot of this is on Nellie, who I normally like, but his leniency towards veterans is getting ridiculous.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Oct 29, 2009 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Simplify things
How about we trade Jackson for Ilgauskas and cash from Cleveland to pay Ilgauskas’ contract. We waive Ilgauskas and then he re-signs with the Cavs for the minimum.
We get Stephen Jackson’s contract off of our payroll.
The Cavs keep Ilgauskas and add Stephen Jackson.
Best of all worlds.
"We Deserve"
by YaHeard on Oct 29, 2009 3:52 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
excellent and realisitic idea, +1
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Trade restrictions would apply, I believe.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
Funny how everyone says we have no leverage in a Jackson deal?
Can you imagine how little leverage Cleveland has knowing if it doesn’t get deal done to placate LeBron he is gone. Looks like leverage just tilted back to us. If 0-2 becomes say 4-8 Lebron’s days are numbered and the brass at Cleveland is gonna be deperate and begging for a player like Jack. Patience my little grasshoppers.
by crab dribble cocktail on Oct 29, 2009 6:03 PM PDT reply actions
what would you ask for in a jackson deal? i’d be thrilled with z’s expiring contract. the main leverage i’d be after would be the leverage to not waive him after we got him. sure he’s slow, but it’d be nice to have someone to soak up wright’s minutes while he recovers. if we could get that and a pick out of the deal, i’d be absolutely elated.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
ditto
MS: If the Warriors were willing to package Ronny Turiaf along with Jackson or planning to waive Ilgauskas after they got him – potentially setting up Big Z to rejoin the Cavs after a 30-day wait as seen last season with Antonio McDyess – Cleveland’s perspective would presumably change. Every signal I’m getting, though, suggests that Golden State would be amenable to neither of those scenarios.
As popular as Turiaf is around here, we fans overvalue him. We should pull the trigger on thie first deal (to be clear, I would not let Big Z go back by waiving him – we need to keep him for this season while Wright recuperates). Getting a pick back would be somewhat helpful, but assuming the Cavs go deep in the postseason, only marginally so. I’d rather have Varejao but that isn’t going to go down in Cleveland. Jax is barely behaving and barely competing imo, the sooner we get something not negative back for him the better. Big Z more than makes up for losing Turiaf and we can replace Jax internally. Pull the trigger.
i’d rather let z go back to cleveland than send turiaf their way. i’m not sure that z would give us much in terms of effort. turiaf plays hard every single game regardless of the standings. i have no evidence to say that z wouldn’t play hard, but when an aging big guy who’s had foot problems joins a bad team, i can see him checking out mentally and shutting down a bit. obviously, the ideal is to keep z and turiaf, but if i have to pick one for this team full of youngsters, i’ll take turiaf (whose ability to play the 4 is useful with wright hurt, though biedrins could play at the PF spot some when z’s in).
i don’t know, i’d probably do it either way, that’s just my preference.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
if we're just going to give Jax away
(which I equate with letting Z go back and keeping Turiaf) then I’d just as soon send him to some NBA outpost than a title contender. Big Z is a legit C, hell he might supplant Andris as our starting C and could himself be re-signed, then we flip Andris into something better … who knows … I do know that Jax act will wear thin very very quickly and we need to move him.
crap, how’d it come to this?! on second thought, don’t answer that – I know and don’t want to read it again …
yeah, i’m up for just shipping jack wherever for an expiring at this point, and if that expiring can play some, all the better. it just so happens that talks are happening with this particular title contender, and i’m not sure which NBA outposts would be willing to take on jack’s contract if it wasn’t going to make them a contender.
ugh, just make something happen already…
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
“some NBA outpost” team would never trade for Jackson. They already know he’d be a bigger problem there than he is here.
"We Deserve"
it's a given alot of teams have no interest
cause of his personality. Cleveland is really the most likely cause he won’t cross lebron and shaq
Truth... How Riley handles this will tell me alot about his GM ability...
I thought one of Mullin’s worst moves was getting rid of Harrington ASAP for Crawford. Cleveland are NOT a good team, especially with shaq (and I the only one who notices he makes lebron worse?).
Secondly, the closer we get ot trade deadline, the more potential contenders will want to get involved
true
The Warriors FO blew the Harrington situation last year.
But I think this situation is a little different. Jackson has so much influence in the locker room and can easily make a huge spectacle of himself in the public eye. The whole PR aspect of this situation is alot more volatile than when Harrington wanted to be traded.
But at least we know Riley isn’t panicking. He hasn’t made a knee-jerk-reaction trade like when we traded for Crawford last season. I give him an A+ for that.
"We Deserve"
THATS THE PROBLEM
the fo is not yet ready to give jack away, but the rest of the league knows it will happen so unless cleveland panics jack aint going nowhere too soon. i just wish they’d send him home but then he’d be even more unmovable for a quality player in return
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