Marco Belinelli - The one that got away?
The Raptors just extended Marco's option and after his good value and input in their win over the Cavs, I can see why! In fact they are commenting as such on the Raptors pages over yonder...
"And we got him for Devean George. Wow! This kid looks good, but I’ll wait and see after a full season.
Nice move by BC.
by Frag on Oct 29, 2009 1:20 PM PDT"
It's always nice to see other fans observe what a pigs breakfast our FO manages to make at times in terms of trades! Personally I feel with all the Jackson nonsense...it has really highlighted what a BAD trade this was for us. All this talk currently of Curry and Monta together does not work....etc etc... With Marco rather than CJ.. we could have had;
Curry - Morrow
Randolph - Biedrins - Buike
with in rotation
Ellis - Marco
Magette - Moore - Turiaf
Bench of Law, Wright, etc etc....
We saw at times just before he injured his ankle the types of plays, delivery and assists that Marco can bring that compliments Ellis better than possibly Curry and being bigger than CJ, we then dont have to bring Buike into the 2 position which he is not naturally...
I believe the trade of Marco was a bad one for us and yet for Marco, I think he may actually do really well with the Raptors and probably as more chance of playoffs this year than we do...and best of luck to him...
Anyone else now feeling this was a bad trade? I never liked it during the summer and I still dont like it now...
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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The Raptors seem to like white European dudes that don’t provide a whole lot of value other than shooting/scoring. Sounds like Marco. I don’t like the trade, but it’s a pretty inconsequential move, Marco just isn’t that good.
inconsequential is the perfect way to describe that deal. we traded a guy who wasn’t going to get PT for a guy who isn’t going to get PT. sort of the definition of inconsequential, no?
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
We actually got some Cash out of it, too bad Cohan wont use it.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
not exactly
Warriors had to decide on his team option. Obviously they were not going to do it (too many guards, better shooter in morrow), so rather than have him be a lame duck, they traded him
that being said...
if we let jack go, we really need him as he was our only wing capable of making a play for others… Nellie even said so, if we knew jack was gonna leave we might have re-considered.
chalk this up for more bonehead moves by the dubs. I don’t care if he wasn’t going to play alot. Why trade a young talented player for an old useless one?
The Raptors seem to like...
actually IMO AB+MB together got more value than separated
biggest winner out of this deal no doubt is Marco himself
i wish him luck
30 Y 197 cm 115 kg 0 IQ
by Lat We N Trash on Oct 30, 2009 4:29 AM PDT up reply actions
I dunno. Has anything really changed? if Marco were still here, we’d be equally pissy about Jackson’s nonsense, Jack would be playing an equal amount of minutes, Marco would still be buried on the bench — and probably not very happily — and Morrow would still be a better player than him. I hope all the best for Marco, I’ll cheer for him if he becomes a player for Toronto, but our situation wouldn’t be any better with him right now than with George.
So...
The guy goes 4/8 and scores 10 points in 20 minutes and the fans over there are excited? Sheesh…Oh, I forgot about the rebound and the assist.
I suppose he did have a +19. Maybe we should see if we can convince the Craptors to let us have him in return for Monta, who had a -18 last night.
Antwan
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 29, 2009 7:04 PM PDT reply actions
Yawn.
Monta
Morrow
Curry
Azubuike
Jackson
Marco is still not nearly as good as anyone in this group. I don’t even think he’s as good as CJ Watson. Heck, he may not even be as good as Acie Law. Tough to find a whole lot of meaningful minutes for your 7th or 8th best guard.
One game in which he scored 10 points on 4-8 floor with one rebound and one assist doesn’t remotely change this. Nor does one random post by some blogger named “Frag.” What next — a front page link a one-line post by montadaboss?
There will be no extra point!
I think Law is better.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
It's irrelevant now what Marco does
but in his defense, there’s a reason he was a +19… I watched the Raptors game tonight off the free NBA league pass and the MVPs of the game were the big 3 of Hedo, Bargs and Bosh, but Marco definitely made an impact. He played mad perimeter defense, and of his shots 1 was a 3, 1 was one of his patented fadeaways, 1 was a layup, and 1 was a great slam dunk down broadway.
I hope he keeps it up.
+/- is one of the most useless stats.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkGSW on Oct 29, 2009 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions
What next — a front page link a one-line post by montadaboss?
Anybody that can take sole possession of the “highly recommended posts” section deserves our attention.
Heh… I remember those days. We should do it again sometime… Where’s Iggy?
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 29, 2009 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm with you on that list
Was it waste to trade him for George? Maybe, but since we got cash to cover George’s contract it’s a net gain for warriors, because Macro wasn’t going play much for the Warriors (barring a rash of injuries of course).
A Sonics fan without a team... but after 6 seasons now of GS Warriors season tickets have convinced me to adopt the boys from Oakland.
I actually liked Marco!
The problem is that Golden State already has too many guards, Marco wouldn’t have much of an opportunity here with us. I like his potential, though. I still think he can develop into a very nice player. Sure, he would have been useless here since he’d be stuck in a logjam but I still have respect for him. I just think some people say he sucks just so Raptors fans won’t start thinking they “stole” him from us.
Some people don’t want Raptors fans going, “Haha look at the Warriors fans! They miss Marco! We absolutely stole him from them!”.
I actually didn’t think he sucked that bad here, it was just due to lack of playing time. I still think the Raptors made a steal with that trade (trading George for a young player with potential, who can also contribute), but the thing is that the trade did not hurt Golden State since we already had a lot of guards. So it’s pretty much a win-win situation. It’s like Toronto stealing something from someone who had way too much of it (surplus of guards). Raptors get a good prospect for cheap that also adds depth and youth, while Golden State gets “veteran leadership” on their extremely young team while getting some money.
Still, not that big of a trade. Just an exchange of players that didn’t make much impact on their teams. Nothing serious.
Formerly known as Five Ten Entertainment.
by Precise Films Productions on Oct 29, 2009 9:30 PM PDT reply actions
no assurance he'd get consistent minutes in oaktown
Riley was headed for a quandary ‘cause they had to make a determination on the contract option, and without putting him on the court in the regular rotation, it could only be a blind guess. Any player lower than the eighth slot on Nelson’s bench has to be reliable when called on, despite not being able to rely on playing time. Belinelli, like most in that situation, didn’t exactly thrive (injury depletion last season was his best opportunity, curtailed by his own injury of course). Even the players Nelson favors more like Azubuike can see big variations in their minutes. George is on the roster at ø cost and no one will give a hoot if he never sees the floor—about the opposite situation they’d have with the young Bolognese.
yeah
There would be too many guards competing for minutes, and a lot of them being young ones that need development. Marco’s better off in Toronto, and it also helps Golden State since we can give more minutes and focus to Curry/Monta/Morrow etc. while no one will complain if George doesn’t play (like you said).
Formerly known as Five Ten Entertainment.
by Precise Films Productions on Oct 29, 2009 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions
we can give more minutes and focus to Curry/Monta/Morrow etc. while no one will complain if George doesn’t play
I don’t agree with this line of thinking at all. The benefit to the Warriors is the Raptors are paying for George’s contract. That’s it. It stops there. If Curry/monta/Morrow etc. needed the PT, we could have given it to them whether Belinelli was here or not. Him not being here doesn’t change that. Also, who cares if the fans want to see Belinelli – that has no effect on W-L whatsoever. Those are not benefits of trading Belinelli.
by Missing Barry on Oct 30, 2009 7:45 AM PDT up reply actions
The benefit to the Warriors is the Raptors are paying for George’s contract. That’s it. It stops there.
This is the concrete benefit. At the same time, I agree with PFP that simplifying our rotation, giving a strong vote of confidence in the abilities of Curry/Monta/Morrow/Buike, and giving Marco’s dormant career a chance to revive a bit (alongside his paisan Bargs) has ancillary, more intangible/spiritual/karmic benefits. It’s these side benefits, even more than the $$$, that led me to switch my position on the Belinelli/George trade from an initial “LOL/WTF” to “REC.”
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Oct 30, 2009 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m still not seeing any way this trade changed any vote of confidence in our other guys. Telling them they’re in the rotation and playing them while sitting Marco gives us the same results. Also, while Marco clearly benefits from an opportunity to play elsewhere…I’m just still not sure how that benefits the Warriors. Karma is supposed to be a “you do a favor for someone, they do a favor for you later” type thing…
I really don’t see how that could be more meaningful to the Warriors than the $$. I think there’s a disconnect between how we as fans see the trade compared to how it actually helps our team. It seems to me a lot of fans take value out of knowing who’s in our rotation now, even though it has no real effect on W-L’s, and same with Marco getting a chance to play – for those of us who liked him, it’s nice to see him get an opportunity, but again, it doesn’t actually help the Warriors win games. Same with having George instead of Marco – we don’t have to listen to fans complaining about Marco not playing now, because nobody is going to complain about George not playing…
So maybe we’re just looking at it different ways? Me looking at how it effects the Warriors end results, others mixing the personal value it provides them in there, too?
by Missing Barry on Oct 30, 2009 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions
But do you REALLY think that not having Marco Belinelli is gonna cost us any wins that matter? The only way I could possibly see either Belinelli or George getting enough playing time to really help/hurt the team’s chances of winning games is if a few important rotation players get hurt. If a couple important rotation players go down on this team, its not likely gonna be a very successful year and Marco’s ability to help us win more games than George only pushes us farther down the lottery. It seems to me like this is a WHOLE LOT of fuss about something pretty damn insignificant so..
Same with having George instead of Marco – we don’t have to listen to fans complaining about Marco not playing now, because nobody is going to complain about George not playing…
Thats a worthwhile benefit for me. Of course if we hadnt made the deal we wouldnt have to hear people constantly whining about Marco blowing up for 10/1/1 with “great hustle d” in Toronto so I guess we didn’t really accomplish anything.
Thing A
Eventually he'll settle out at a 10/1/1 guy
At that point, we’ll hear less about him.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 30, 2009 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Thats a worthwhile benefit for me.
So that’s a yes, we’re just looking at it from different perspectives?
by Missing Barry on Oct 30, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
I think it's more about not having to worry about him anymore
He wouldn’t have gotten us any extra wins, but the FO and Nellie would probably have more to think about this season if he were here, because they’d keep thinking, “What do we do with him? He’s young and has potential, should I play him?”.
Just get rid of him so he can succeed somewhere without us having to worry about him.
Formerly known as Five Ten Entertainment.
by Precise Films Productions on Oct 30, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
to clarify
Thats a worthwhile benefit to me because I don’t see how Marco Belinelli was ever going to help the Warriors win a meaningful game.
Thing A
And I’m not even arguing against the trade here or anything, just trying to make the case that many of the benefits people see in the trade don’t actually affect the Warrior’s W-L. I’ve since realized they seem to be personal benefits to peoplle.
by Missing Barry on Oct 30, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions
yea i know
I agree that most of us who support the trade don’t think it will help the W-L record, but we also feel keeping him wasnt gonna help the W-L record either. Nobody is saying George is gonna help us and it was a good talent move.
Thing A
I’m just saying that maybe Nellie saw some potential in Marco, too. The Warriors had about 40+ different starting line-ups last season, Nellie didn’t really have a set rotation. It could happen again this season, and if Marco were here Nellie would make the rotation more and more different since he’ll be playing Marco at times to develop him and get him experienced.
It’s different with George because Nellie wouldn’t really have a reason to play him. George doesn’t have any upside so we don’t got to worry about “wasting his potential” from benching him every game. Of course the main point of the trade was $$$, but I also think that playing time and whatnot is an added benifet.
Formerly known as Five Ten Entertainment.
by Precise Films Productions on Oct 30, 2009 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, while Marco clearly benefits from an opportunity to play elsewhere…I’m just still not sure how that benefits the Warriors. Karma is supposed to be a "you do a favor for someone, they do a favor for you later" type thing…
While my understanding of eastern religions and philosophies is rather limited, I think you misstate karma here dramatically. According to my understanding, the concept would be better stated “you do good things, and good things happen to you” or, as a certain well known Western religion might put it “You reap what you sow.” In this particular case, by doing something that benefits Belinelli – sending him to a team that wants him, want to play him, has a more European feel (and more European players) – in a trade that isn’t particularly great for the Warriors, but still has its benefits, may help around the league as players see Golden State as a team that will treat them well.
Unfortunately for Warriors fans, the Warriors have sown a whole lot of less desirable seeds as well. The wheat from this trade is likely to be choked out by the tares sown at other times.
At the time, I was disappointed by the trade
but I understood why. There was no room for him on our roster.
Yeah
Like giving up newborn puppies. Can’t keep them all. haha.
Formerly known as Five Ten Entertainment.
by Precise Films Productions on Oct 29, 2009 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I was upset when the trade happened
But now that I think about it, I would rather see marco making an impact in canada than see him riding the pine in the bay
also
The Raptors just extended Marco’s option and after his good value …
Don’t forget that they are also paying George’s salary. At that price he’s not really a good value.
Thing A
Some interesting points....
However Sleepy…you really need to take a happy pill or two!
ONCE Jackson goes we will have some interesting choices to make with regards the 1 and 2. It is yet to be seen whether Ellis and Curry can play any significant time together and so this throws some interesting questions…
Curry and Morrow seem to have a good connection and personally I would have these as my starting 1 and 2, others may prefer Ellis… but I think Ellis into the mix with say Marco, is better than Ellis into the mix with say CJ or Law. Why? It seems to me that Marco had/has much harder work ethic with regards to defensive hustle…(I like that in a player), he can handle the rock and establish plays…. things Ellis simply is no good at, period.
I also believe Marco is in fact a better player than CJ and Law, although Law could well prove to be a surprise this year…
I really dont want to discuss Jackson…because hopefully he wont be around long and likewise, I really dont want to see Buike at the 2 as I truly dont believe he should be playing there at all. So yes with “Slack” in the team, Marco was extra to requirements, but if he wasnt in the team, given time, I believe Marco will prove to be an excellent 7th/8th man that could very well have a break out year this year and I for one will be interested to watch how he does.
While he had the nickname for the Italian Stallion….I believe Marco might just be a dark horse for most improved player award this year…. time will tell..
GSOM Blog Beast!
I really dont want to see Buike at the 2 as I truly dont believe he should be playing there at all
Im confused. Why…? I really don’t see any possible explanation for this…
by Missing Barry on Oct 30, 2009 7:47 AM PDT up reply actions
However Sleepy…you really need to take a happy pill or two!
Haha, done.
My “happy pills” are also known as “Friday” and “no major deadlines.” ;-)
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Oct 30, 2009 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions
it might have been different
On KNBR, Nelson said they might not have traded Marco had they known of Jack’s trade request at that time. I think they traded Marco before Jack decided he didn’t want to play there. If Jack wasn’t here, there might be room for Marco, but otherwise no. At the time it was either Morrow or Marco, and they chose Morrow.
Ummm...
I think it’s more of “Marco is a better and more usable trade piece than Devan George.”
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 30, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I heard the Nellie interview where he said that....
His point was Belinelli was only other wing player who can create of dribble, set up others and pass to jack which is true.
The idea of trading jack for nothing scares me. The idea of buike, morrow, curry ar our permiter players together scares me…..zero ball movement
And Monta, Jax, Maggs have terrific terrible ball movement
by Badly Browned on Oct 30, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Belinelli was my favorite...
Can’t believe we got George in return….. useless….
Belinelli, I hope you succeed wherever you play. Sorry our stupid GM and Coach didn’t give you enough opportunities to succeed here. It’s not your fault. We have retards running our team.
by HireMeAsGM on Oct 30, 2009 8:58 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Can’t believe we got George in return
One more time: We got a free contract in return. The swap wasn’t made to add George to the rotation. Belinelli wasn’t gonna play unless we ran into major injury problems. George wont play unless we run into major injury problems. If we run into major injury problems do you really care whether its Belinelli or George in there? Either way we suck. This way we aren’t paying someone to suck (well I guess we’re paying Cohan to suck….)
Thing A
+1
The rather absurd notion of some fans both in Toronto and by the Bay that Marco is only a small opportunity away from being an MVP candidate aside, the move was about money. Marco wasn’t going to get extended here. In practice, the move turned into being able to speed up the clock on the decision a year, saving $1.6 mil while still retaining the outside possibility of using the contract space for a future trade.
It is only if you buy into the strange notion that Marco was going to develop enough to be on the court enough to actually contribute to wins that it matters at all. If you buy into this, you probably also believe he had more trade value than he did. But honestly, the market for off guards who aren’t big and strong enough to slide in and play against forwards and (insane evaluations aside) don’t appear to find open teammates often enough to run an offense just isn’t that great. He wasn’t exactly a hot commodity entering the draft, else he wouldn’t have been picked where he was. While after someone gets to the NBA, this shouldn’t be overly important to evaluating his talent — draft mistakes happen all the time, both over and under regarding a player — his play didn’t really suggest that other teams missed on him.
The move was about money
But was it that significant a gain (financially?). I just think we gave away a talented player for nothing, and that hamstrings future deals. I did think he could develop into an NBA starter. He showed flashes of it vs. toranto and boston particularly last year. You can say what you want about Toranto, but the way he played against Boston was impressive. The ankle injury of course was bad luck cause I thought he could have continued growing. He was only 22….
Having talent is never a bad thing….
Don't forget about the Jan. 7th game vs. the Lakers.
Statistics won’t show that Marco did a good job slowing Kobe Bryant down and limited his scoring down the stretch of the game.
Kobe still dropped good numbers in 21 pts, 5 rebounds and 5 assists, but he only got to the Free Throw Line once.
I was really impressed with the job Belinelli did on Kobe and I know it was only one game, but it was still against one of the best basketball players on the planet today.
Kobe did compliment Marco in Italian afterwards and in my opinion that says a lot about Marco’s game and determination.
Romes Mac Mojous
by ROMESdavidWOOD37 on Oct 30, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Statistics won’t show that Marco did a good job slowing Kobe Bryant down and limited his scoring down the stretch of the game.
Strange then, if statistics won’t show it that you use statistics (“21 pts, 5 rebounds and 5 assists, but he only got to the Free Throw Line once”) as your argument. Do you know what a statistic is?
Statistics won’t show that Marco did a good job slowing Kobe Bryant down
That looks like a sub-par game for Kobe to me.
but I doubt that was an Italian compliment, more likely a Sicilian curse.
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Oct 30, 2009 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
The Jan 7 game had Kobe scoring 21 on 20 shots. Marco played more than 30 minutes, so it’s possible he had a hand in it.
However, on 3/19, Kobe had a game that appears even worse: 21 points on 25 shots, 5 turnovers. Since Belinelli only played 10 minutes in that game, it’s a stretch to say that he was responsible there too.
Kobe appears to be capable of having poor games agains the Warriors without significant contributions from Belinelli.
I just think we gave away a talented player for nothing
We gave away a player for nothing. How talented he is seems to be up for debate. I did not see him as anything special: an off guard without the vision to make good passes regularly no matter how pretty they looked when he ever so infrequently did manage to pass to an open man and who can’t rebound and is essentially limited to one position, and a position that isn’t a particularly hard one to fill.
Good outside shooter? Sure, but nothing phenomenal. Can dribble? Sure, but didn’t seem to be a force driving to the rim. He just didn’t show himself to be a talent over and above what come along in the middle of the draft every single year. That’s not all that valuable. Really. It isn’t, no matter how much fans overhype their team’s players.
Does it hamstring future deals? Only if you believe he had significant value as a player. I don’t think he does. As a contract, we’ve got the same contract still. If he was to be an expiring for someone else, his option would have had to be declined, which makes it unlikely that any team trading for him could keep him, just because of the rules of the CBA. Really, I don’t think he had that much value.
You can say what you want about Toranto
I’ll say nothing about Toranto, but Toronto is a nice city in Canada.
by jae on Oct 30, 2009 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
ENOUGH............
Jesus….what is it with you and your “everyone is wrong but me attitude…”
THIS IS a FECKING DISCUSSION….you make it sound like the bee all and end all of anyone questioning why he is not in the squad is an idiot…
Your condescending tone really gets up my nose…..
This is merely a discussion where people of different views can openly discuss whether they think the deal was a good one or not.
Personally I feel Marco is a better player than CJ and Law…and yes with him in the mix and Jackson out…YES, I personally feel he may have affected some games where we win which we might not without him…
Its a difference of opinion to some here, Sam23 is one and there are others..but the constant assassination of others views just because they may disagree with your own is getting REALLY F..Ing DULL here!
Is Devean George ever going to play seious minutes here… no…once Jackson goes…. do we have a slight issue with who plays with Ellis… yes we do..
This constant BS..being created by some that we are suddenly calling Marco an MVP is just immature crap. He is a player that hustles on D and might just might add more help than Jackson or George ever will now, and for that,….we might , JUST MIGHT HAVE KEPT HIM had we known Jackson was going to behave like such an ass! He is a team player thats adds something..is he an all-star..NO… and no one said he was…
AGAIN…. some people have tried to make this a discussion that Marco was suddenly the saviour of GSW… no one said this..no one even hinted this…the question is whether his might have been a talent that we may not have seen the best from… and I personally believe we never truly saw his real talent..
Again if he has a break out year in Toronto.. rest assured..I am going to take one or two of you great SAGES..and rub your noses so deep in this…you may think twice about being so veherment against a player ever again….
Some people here need to grow some F——ing ettiquette..
I seriously dont care how much Basketball knowledge you think you have, there are some serious ego’s of opinion on this forum that need to learn what a truly professional and adult response to someone elses views might be….
Mod or not….lets have some F…ing civility here please..
GSOM Blog Beast!
by BritWarriorGSW on Oct 30, 2009 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Jesus….what is it with you and your "everyone is wrong but me attitude…
Where did I mention anything of the sort? I suggest go back and note my second sentence: “How talented he is seems to be up for debate.” I then proceeded to describe how I saw it and how I saw Marco’s game.
Mod or not….lets have some F…ing civility here please..
What was uncivil about my post? I’d say it’s the pot calling the kettle black, but currently, you’re the only one being uncivil.
In fairness I was pretty uncivil (and sexist) with the “full o’ sand” comment. I totally abhor misogynist insults like that, but I couldn’t resist seeing if I could get Brit to physically threaten me through the internet again. I love it when he does that… ;-P
Anyway, apologies to the women here for the crass remark.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Oct 31, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
ps
jae, can you delete my comment?
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Oct 31, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Brit Warrior
You’re crazy. Macro isn’t going to have a break out year for Toronto. Mark my words, he isn’t even the 3rd option at SG for the Raptors. There playing Wright and DeRozan a head of him. He’s averaging 12 mins per game. His minutes have gone down each game (19 vs CLE, 14 vs MEM and 5 vs ORL). Now I’m sure some of that is match ups, but his main competion off the bench is Wright and he’s getting (18 vs CLE, 24 vs MEM and 25 vs ORL). And the starter DeRozan has gotten decent minutes as well (24 vs CLE, 20 vs MEM and 19 vs ORL). All this points to Bellinelli getting less playing time.
Here are the PER and /- for all 3 guys:
Belinelli – 14.0 PER, +13 (19,6,-12)
DeRozan – 15.0 PER, +8 (11, +3, -6)
Wright – 5.6 PER, -7 (-9, 0, +2)
Which shows that most of Bellinelli’s postive play stems from just the cleveland game
A Sonics fan without a team... but after 6 seasons now of GS Warriors season tickets have convinced me to adopt the boys from Oakland.
Stop
Why do you have to bring this up again?
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 30, 2009 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
AKA
worst trade in Warriors history
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Oct 30, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
AKA dead horse
30 Y 197 cm 115 kg 0 IQ
by Lat We N Trash on Oct 30, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
AKA
worst dead horse trade in NBA history
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Oct 30, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
It’s a decomposing horse at this point.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
It’s a decomposing horse at this point.
as the team is post JRich.
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Oct 30, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
JRich is a dead horse with a huge contract. Not to beat him or anything, but it’s not like he brings tons of wins.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
Who likes to get lit and drive his unrestrained 3 year old around at 80 in a 35...
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 30, 2009 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions
90 actually
yeah, give him full credit for his driving skills :>)
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Oct 31, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
If only they were that advanced on a basketball court… ;-)
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Oct 31, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
BTW everyone who writes him off
He was pretty influencial in a few wins last year. Probably as many as morrow. Morrow is a better shooter, belinelli does more overall. I simply don’t see the gain in trading a talented young player for NOTHING.
Should we have got value, eh then its a question of if player A> player B. But we didn’t we more or less gave him away for free.
IMO keeping belinelli made jack more expendable for nothing. Now we have to get something for jack, simply cause buike, morrow, maggette all canNOT do half of what jack can. Atleast Belinelli showed good wing playmaking ability and perimeter d. Buike and Morrow could match his D, but none of them have the ability to go off dribble and set up teammates like him
But we didn’t we more or less gave him away for free.
We did not give him away for free. We sold him to Toronto.
by Missing Barry on Oct 30, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
+1
As I’ve stated elsewhere, I think Bellinelli has more upside than Morrow. Morrow can shoot lights out, but he can’t create for himself and is a poor defender.
Also, I think Riley should have gotten a lot more for Bellinelli, period. Unless he is able to trade George for someone that can help the current roster, then it was a wasted trade.
I have to agree keeping Bellinelli does make more sense than trading him. He can provide more than George offers and may have made it easier for us to do a sign and trade deal with Orlando for CJ Watson. Also, once we get rid of Jackson, it would have made for a nice rotation off the bench at the 2-3 with Marco, Morrow and Azibuke.
1. Not really fair to include Jackson in the equation. It’s true that Jack’s departure, depending on whom we got in return, might leave us a bit thin in a couple areas where Marco might have been of some avail (decent playmaking, OK defense, so-so long-range shooting, poor rebounding, etc.) But the Jackson thing came totally out of left field. As they say, hindsight is 20;20.
2. You may think that Riley should have gotten more than for Marco (in a moral sense?); the real question is whether he could have gotten more. That’s not a question you, I, or anyone here is really qualified to have a very strong opinion on.
3. Marco turns 24 in March — an age where talk of as-yet-unseen “upside” starts to sound pretty silly. So far in their NBA careers, Morrow (six months older) has produced at a significantly higher level than Marco. The overwhelmingly likelihood is that he continues to do so.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Oct 30, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I think the Jackson situation ties in with both your first two points. If Riley spends a little more time shopping around, either we get a better deal or we find out that Jackson isn’t happy and end up keeping him. I don’t understand the mentality of getting rid of players for nothing. Keep him around and maybe another team takes a flyer on him before the trade deadline or we end up losing him at the end of the season, still having a better player than Devean George on our roster.
I also don’t see this love affair with Morrow. I think he could be a good role player off the bench but he is no superstar. He can’t create for himself and other teams are going to figure out he can hit the open shot. At this point in their careers, Marco’s game is more polished than Morrow, he just wasn’t shown any patience by Nelson and never got consistent minutes with the Warriors. I guess really the debate will be settled toward the end of the season, but I still like Bellinelli over Morrow.
Belli is no superstar. Morrow is the best three-point shooter in the league and the only rookie and undrafted player to ever do so. Belli is pretty good at doing everything but not great at anything. Well, he’s terrible at rebounding and penetration. But other than that.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
Yes....
Morrow was the best 3pt shooter in the league last year and no, Bellinelli is not a superstar, but I have yet to see Morrow consistently hit his shots with someone in his face and I have no doubt, that if a game is close, no team is going to leave him sitting open behind the arc.
The question now becomes, can Morrow improve his game, create seperation from his defenders and still shoot at a high pct.? Maybe, but I still see Bellinelli becoming the better player and having the better all around game.
it should be noted...
Morrow’s ability to shoot the lights out, thus requiring the defense to keep a constant eye on him is tremendously valuable. People keep acting like once teams figure out they need to guard Morrow tightly he suddenly becomes a non-factor. That just isn’t true. If I have to stick to my man like glue because the moment I leave him he’ll get the pass and have a shot off before I can get back to him I can’t double team anyone, nor can I sag off and clog the lane. I have to stick to him everywhere he goes.
Granted, the advantage this creates is mitigated by the fact that the Warriors are not good at getting the ball to Morrow, but simple the fact that he has a great shot makes life easier for everyone else trying to score.
Month of december
30mpg, 45% fg%, 38.4% 3pt%, 14.1 ppg, 3.2 apg, 2.6 rpg, 1.0 spg (ironically his worst average of season) along with being the better perimter defender of all our 2guards…
But one month doesn’t mean that’s who he is. If he’s a streaky guy, he can have a pretty good month and then be kinda sucky for a couple months after that. He did get injured and didn’t recover well afterward. What does that say about him? Don’t know. But it’s not a good sign.
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All those numbers are OK at best
38% on 3s is about the league average. 45% from the field is a little above average for a SG. 3.2 assists from a guy who’s supposed to be a “wing player who can create of dribble” is pretty low. 2.6 rebounds is also piss poor for a guy who played 30 minutes.
And on “being the better perimter defender of all our 2guards”
First, this is the Warriors, AKA the worst defensive team in the league. Second, who else was competing for that title? Jax? Injured for the most part, and really more of a SF. Monta? Nope. Jamal Crawfor- and Anthony Morrow, and… that’s it. So he was better than a veteran who’s NOTORIOUSLY bad at defense and an undrafted rookie who was still learning the game. Now that’s some competition to be proud to beat out.
That’s like saying that Brady Quinn is the most promising QB on the Cleveland Browns: Sure, he’s sucked when he was in there, but you’re comparing him to Derek “2 completions” Anderson, and Brett “Who?” Ratliff, so sure, he’s the most promising QB they’ve got.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 30, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
on the warriors
only morrow, buike and cj shot better percentage. And none of those 3 can create there own shot like marco can
head-scratching move
and opinion from this blog about marco. this guy really showed improvement in the area we least thought he could compete. perimeter defense. he was primarily a playmaker, and we don’t have enough on the team. we don’t have a lot of guys who can cover a 2 guard like roy or kobe.
i thought he deserved to have his option picked up, but nelson seemed to really like law for a long time now. not sure what the attraction is, but it must be a quality that marco does not possess.
"We're Menudo," -BB
Morrow and Belinelli play the same thing essentialy (their role). It was one or the other. They chose Morrow.
Morrow and Belinelli are not the same thing
Morrow has the potential to become a very good shooter, but will be hamstrung by his lack of defense. Marco is NOT a shooter, I don’t know how anyone could even think he can be – his mechanics are pretty bad. At most, he can become a very good complementary player with a long NBA career, perhaps similar to Manu.
It’s funny that this debate is still going on 3 mos after he was traded. This shouldn’t be an argument about whether Marco’s presence would have had an impact on this team, but whether the FO gave up a very good trading chip.
Since we weren’t going to be playing him, he was never going to appear attractive to any team.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
You’d be surprised. I think most teams in the league know Marco has the ability to play well. Most raptors fans think Nelson’s just a senile old goat who wouldn’t know how to use talent like Marco, and… by the way that he’s using AR, they may be right.
The Raptors are right that they got a good deal. But so did we. The Raptors actually needed a 2 and were quite familiar with Marco as he and ABargnani are buddies, so they had confidence in him despite his numbers being just O.K. for us. O.K. 2’s in this league are a dime a dozen.
That most Raptors fans think Nellie is a senile old goat is quite debatable and really irrelevant anyway. Who cares what they think? The question is, why do they think it?
As far as the way Nellie is using AR, I haven’t had major issues with it. I don’t particularly like it, but it doesn’t suggest Nellie is an idiot nor senile.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
I agree it’s irrelevant what raptors fans think, and what they think is the least of the Warriors’ worries. I am concerned with the way Nelson handles his players and how he impacts their growth. Obviously Marco’s gone and he seems to be doing well in Toronto. Reading his comments it looks like Brandan doesn’t care what Nelson says or does. But AR seems to be a volatile type, who could regress if he’s not coached positively, and I’m not sure Nelson wants to do more than the bare minimum of coaching a team.
Where is all this “Marco is a playmaker” stuff coming from? Did I miss something?
Warriors that are better offensive players than Marco Belinelli:
Monta Ellis
Corey Maggette
Andris Biedrins
Anthony Morrow
Kelenna Azubuike
Stephen Curry
Stephen Jackson
Brandan Wright
Anthony Randolph
Maybe, (but probably not) – Turiaf
I’d put CJ over Marco too… CJ’s not much of a point, but his passing numbers are better than Marco’s (same assist rate, fewer turnovers), and he shoots just as well (a bit more efficiently, a bit less often).
I like Marco. I wish him well. He’s going to need to keep that defensive effort up, because as things stand, defense is the only chance he has to justify an NBA role. When you’re not one of the ten best offensive players on a lottery team, offense is probably not your calling card.
To be honest..YES yes you did miss something...
Just before his injury, he started to show some EXCELLENT play making abilities….which made many with half a basketball experience brain say…“damn… he actually can run the floor quite well….” if you didnt see that, I suggest you go back and look at his taps again… the guy CAN set up plays very well….
GSOM Blog Beast!
by BritWarriorGSW on Oct 30, 2009 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions
He played very well running up to his injury and then when he came back, Nelson only used him sporadically.
Really, from Marco’s vantage point, he gets the better end of the deal as he goes to a team that wants him instead of trying to prove himself in limited minutes.
I understand the point that we have a plethera of swings but isn’t it time we start making better deals to improve the team? The Bellinelli/George trade did nothing to improve us this season. That is, unfortunatly, why we don’t find the team improving.
Did we dump Marco before we drafted curr-bury?
If so the “too many guards thing” don’t make sense . If we had too may guards to keep marco why would we draft another? There had to be some athletic players in that draft that woulda worked better with Montay?
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Oct 30, 2009 3:07 PM PDT reply actions
Curry has more promise than Belinelli and MUCH more promise as a point guard. Drafting for need is usually foolish. Drafting for need and avoiding a guard because you already have Belinelli is drooling sub-moronic idiot stupid.
and posting in the manner you do...
Is becoming offensive… REIGN YOURSELF IN…. FFS…
NO ONE SUGGESTED MARCO IS THE NEXT MAGIC JOHNSON…. OR MJ…
But with Jackson going….SOME might consider Marco a better partner with Ellis and Curry with Morrow….IF…we no longer have Jackson… with CJ possibly covering a range of positions at 1 and 2….
GSOM Blog Beast!
by BritWarriorGSW on Oct 30, 2009 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions
REIGN YOURSELF IN…. FFS…
Right. Remind us again who’s ranting in all caps and dropping ad-homs and F-bombs?
NO ONE SUGGESTED MARCO IS THE NEXT MAGIC JOHNSON…. OR MJ…
Right. No one even mentioned those two. Except you.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Oct 30, 2009 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions
SOME might consider Marco a better partner with Ellis and [sic, I assume this is a typo and you mean than, no?] Curry with Morrow
Totally fair, but it still doesn’t change the issue with drafting Curry at the time. If management had said "we’re passing on Curry because we have Belinelli already, I think they’d be making a terrible, terrible, terrible talent evaluation decision. Nothing in Belinelli’s career suggests that he’s headed for stardom. Nothing in his career suggests that he’s able to run an offense. If you allow the presence of a guy like Belinelli on your roster to dictate your draft strategy, you are making a significant strategic error.
As for “reign yourself in”, you’re now screaming at me — that is what allcaps signifies — for voicing my basketball opinion, namely that drafting for need isn’t a good idea, especially when you feel the need is already being met by a player of questionable ability to actually help a team. If you have a disagreement with that, voice it, but right now, you’re off the edge and appear to be reacting to some perception of what I’m saying or using it as an excuse to vent against something in the past and are not actually responding to what I wrote. The all-caps reference to Magic Johnson? Where did that even come from? Are you reading what I wrote, or just seeing that “jae” posted it and flipping out at that detail?
You need to reign yourself in, right now. Really, only one of us is acting in an uncivilized manner at this point, and it isn’t me.
Let's remain civil yes
I think you’ve gone off on a tangent with your post here. No one is suggesting that Curry should not have been drafted because of Marco, that’s silly. From what I can remember, most were suggesting the Warriors should draft a big man or SF. I think BritWarrior’s concern is that if Jax is dumped (much like Marco was) who else on this team will able to help Curry with the offense. Of course Marco would have been helpful in that situation then.
I think BritWarrior got a bit upset when you accused him of being “drooling sub-moronic idiot stupid” for posting his beliefs.
No one is suggesting that Curry should not have been drafted because of Marco, that’s silly.
No one? I was respond to Skeptic’s apparent suggestion that perhaps we shouldn’t have drafted Curry. He wrote:
If we had too may guards to keep marco why would we draft another? There had to be some athletic players in that draft that woulda worked better with Montay?
I interpreted this to question if, given that we had Belinelli, another guard didn’t make sense. Of course Skeptic’s comments were as usual somewhat difficult to parse, but it doesn’t seem to me to be a stretch that he suggested that Belinelli being arouund made it less sensible to draft Curry. So if it’s silly to suggest that avoiding Curry because we had Belinelli, are you accusing Skeptic of being silly?
I think BritWarrior got a bit upset when you accused him of being "drooling sub-moronic idiot stupid" for posting his beliefs.
And if I had accused him of that, I can see why he might have been upset. But I didn’t. Don’t tell me I said something that I most clearly did not. I didn’t direct that at BritWarrior. Nowhere in the post did I mention or imply him in any way. It wasn’t a response to a comment of his. It didn’t follow one of his postings. Your assertion that I accused him "drooling sub-moronic idiot stupid" is factually inaccurate. I did no such thing. I didn’t mention or imply him in any way as any honest reading of my post shows.
The only connection is that it occurs in followups to a fanpost that he started and it isn’t in lock-step with his assertion that it was a terrible trade. Which leaves me with thinking that BritWarrior either can no longer deal with anything I write or is totally unable to deal with any opinions differing from his own. If BritWarrior is going to go out of his way to take a response to someone else as an affront to him, then there’s really nothing that I can do. He needs to get past it. If he’s ticked that in the thread he started that someone dares disagree with his notion that Marco “got away”, tough. People will disagree with him. Sack up and deal. But getting bent out of shape when I post my opinion of the deal and of Belinelli in comments that were not responses to comments that he made? This suggests that there’s something deeper going on and he can no longer deal with seeing my name at the bottom of a post at all.
I interpreted this to question if, given that we had Belinelli, another guard didn’t make sense.
Actually I was asking about the time line. Did we drop Marco before we drafted Curry? If so then why would we draft a guard after just saying that we had too many to play? The plan as I understood it was to play Montay at the point so the sensible draft woulda been an athletic player other than a point guard.
It seems to me that the club decided to take Curr-bury as a marketing piece instead of sticking to their game plan, and that’s what got all the players upset, suddenly they are back to square one instead of building on their existing chemistry.
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Oct 31, 2009 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Did we drop Marco before we drafted Curry?
No.
One of the main reasons Riley and the FO gave for drafting Curry was that they thought he had legit NBA point guard skills. The only people who thought Belinelli had these skills were a few loud fanboys on this blog.
The other player available at #8 who experts thought might be worthy of that high a pick was Jordan Hill, who so far has looked pretty mediocre.
It seems to me that the club decided to take Curr-bury as a marketing piece instead of sticking to their game plan, and that’s what got all the players upset, suddenly they are back to square one instead of building on their existing chemistry.
As Sam said: Best. Player. Available.
And again, let me introduce you to Occam’s razor.
The explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Oct 31, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
For what it’s worth, the best performing point guard so far appears to be Ty Lawson. Small sample size, but he is on track to make a whole lot of people look silly for confusing him with Ray Felton. His success shouldn’t surprise anyone who looked at what he did in college.
For what it’s worth, the best performing point guard so far appears to be Ty Lawson.
and the 3 point shot leader is Channing Frye?
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Oct 31, 2009 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I dont mind comments at all...
But its when such thoughts and discussion points are then put forward as idiot stupid etc….
which is what happens with increasing frequency at the moment and not just from you. The good old fashioned days of “I disagree and here is why” rather than the posts of “this is an idiotic post, not worth going over again..etc etc…”
JAE you have a great passion for basketball but your personal ability to simply discuss things with people without an air of “i know more than you” is the thing that winds me up the most….
I do however feel I may have gone alittle too far above and for that I apologize (one too many sherberts….thats drinks to you silly yanks) ;)
But I really feel you could add so much more to this board by simply addressing people and their views however daft they may seem to you, with some civility and that goes to all.
GSOM Blog Beast!
by BritWarriorGSW on Oct 31, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I said that passing on a player because you had Belinelli would have been idiotic. I didn’t say that a post or poster was an idiot. And passing on Curry because of Belinelli would have been foolish. Even if he was an alright player (and he may be, though I don’t think so) it’s real poor management to avoid a player because you have someone else penciled in at that position. Belinelli wasn’t even that. He was a backup who might turn into a starter, projected as more of a 2 than Curry, who appears to actually be able to play point guard.
I stand to apologize too
Looks like I really put my foot in mouth this time… I misinterpreted the last line of your post and I’m sorry if I offended you. This fanpost has been kind of difficult to follow because it jumps all over the place, in terms of time-line, and I didn’t follow the argument from beginning to end. Not a good excuse though :(
has been kind of difficult to follow because it jumps all over the place
that’s why we don’t play rookies
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Oct 31, 2009 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not dissapointed in the trade
I’m dissapointed that the Warriors struck out again in the first round by drafting him. I like him and I think he could be a good NBA player, but it won’t be with the Warriors……sounds like a familiar story.
No one good available. Not a deep draft and at 14, who else would we get? Marco was a decent pick, consider the possibilities.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
I don’t think that Marco was a bad pick (and he wasn’t at 14, but at 18), but most #18 picks don’t turn out to be significant contributors. That’s just what happens when you draft around that slot. We didn’t appear to get lucky. So what? What’s amazing is that he still seems to get some many people so worked up. You’d think we were talking about losing Webber after his rookie year from the vitriol that it raises. This is far, far more like losing Vonteego Cummings.
Its just a popular theme is all I'm saying
we seem to miss on more first rounders then we hit on, and even when they turn out to be players its usually when they put on a different uniform. I just think thats frustrating.
The “we miss and they turn into players on other teams” hasn’t really been true in a while. The whiffs have remained whiffs and the players who excelled elsewhere were already excelling here. Dunleavy is perhaps the closest thing to an exception to this in the last decade, and even there, he was never nearly as terrible as people made him out to be when he was here.
I think the Warriors draft record over the last decade has been pretty middle of the road given where they’ve drafted, neither terrible nor fantastic.
another pathetic warrior trade!
Trading or dumping Marco like Crawford was typical Warrior bonehead nonsense !! Devean George!! Give me a break,the dude sucked on the Lakers ! Acie Law (M. Williams part 2) and Speedy (not too much anymore) for Jamal Crawford (a guy that has scored 50 pts. on 3 teams and could always get his shot)! GIVE ME A BREAK !
Dr. Jeff
Jamal was not remotely a winner. It was addition by subtraction. If someone had made a better offer for him, we could have taken it. I am quite content with expirings. Those can allow you to afford to keep your better players, which is just as good as picking up new good players.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
I haven’t seen any of his games with the Raptors, but I actually liked Marco when he was with the Warriors (what little I saw of him). I guess I’m in the minority here. I think he could develop into a really good playmaker (he’s got great instincts in that department) and he’s already a good shooter. I would take him over Morrow in a heartbeat. I find it a little ridiculous how big everyone is on Morrow. The guy’s a good shooter and he’s a pretty decent rebounder when he actually puts forth the effort, but he can’t create for himself or anyone else off the dribble. I’m not saying Marco’s an MVP in the making, but I think if/when he finds the right situation he’s going to be a pretty solid player. I’ve seen people on here saying how he had no trade value, which is true, but true because the Warriors (Nellie in particular) are excellent at destroying trade value, not because he’s a bad player.
I agree
Marco > CJ
I always liked Marco, he was a decent passer, defender, AND scorer with decent handles to boot!























