Jackson and Maggette are running the offense into the ground.
by dubzfan on Oct 31, 2009 10:41 PM PDT
35 comments
The reason why we are so dysfunctional offensively is due to the selfish play of Corey Maggette and Stephen Jackson. They always hold onto the ball for too long, they don't shoot well, they refuse to pass or play defense and neither fits in with us. I don't mind Monta taking shots simply because he is efficient and will put up 25 points without wasting a lot of possessions and at least he is a good rebounder for a guard. He also will push the tempo which is good. But Maggs will get the ball on the wing and just sit there for a couple seconds, jab step and shoot a fade away as well as Jackson. Effectively killing the ball movement. Maggette has never fit into our style of play and neither of them seem to care at all. Jackson recently said that the other players on the team need to figure out how to get him the ball more (recently stated in a fan shot). Really jack? You need to have the ball less and need to be on the floor less. Your doing just enough to have any trade value what so ever. While Maggs has such a low value right now the only trade I could come up with to lose him was either him for Mark Blount and Brian Cardinal or him for James Jones and Dorrell Wright( I would take any of these in a heartbeat). But Nelson is also to blame. He is always defending Jack saying things like we have worked it out and I don't want him to leave. Really? You want him to stay? Then I want to hear him try to justify putting Maggette in over Randolph. At least Jackson has some value at this point. We can maybe offer Law, George, Speedy and him for Wallace and Diop, or Devin Brown and Posey for him (we would waive Brown) and then there is also that big Z thought (I would actually like Jamario Moon).
Why must Nellie insist on backing this guy up?
We won't get much better if these two guys stay here. And Nellie should get his 24 wins and leave and let Smart take over. If Smart does well let him coach, if not go get Avery Johnson. We don't want Nellie to ruin Randolph, Curry or Ellis at this point. All three of them are our future like it or not. I don't even think Nellie is testing Randolph, I just think he is going insane.
Usually when you have the ball it helps to look up
Lets just hope a team is willing to take Jack, Maggs is traded for expiring deals and Nellie goes to Hawaii soon. Sometimes I feel as though us fans have better ideas then the front office. Watch as I create a better direction in 30 seconds then Cohan has done in fifteen year. First we trade all our expiring deals other then Morrow , Buike and Wright to Charlotte a long with Jack for Wallace and Diop. Then Trade Maggs for Cardinal and Blount and let Nellie get his 24 and then evaluate how Smart does as the head coach. Then either hire Avery or Smart as the coach. Use the expirings to either get Joe Johnson or lock up Randolph, Curry, Buike and Morrow long term and build upon the young team of Ellis, Curry, Wallace, Randolph, Biedrins, Ronny, Wright, Azebuike, Morrow and then we pick Evan Turner as Wallace's injury insurance and develop him as well as everyone else. And Poof! A fan that can't even legally get a permit to drive has just beat Cohan and Rowell. What a world we live in?
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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Its Maggette
I know Jack makes everybody go crazy whenever he pulls up for a very contested shot but, at least he passes it. Once you pass it to Maggette, the play is over unless a miracle happens (he passes it)
Fear is the Mind Killer
by dubzero23 on Oct 31, 2009 11:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Maggette is also a whole lot more efficient than Jackson.
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 1, 2009 9:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And Jackson is just as likely to pass it to the other team or someone in the 3rd row as likely to pass it to someone on his own team.
This house is full of m, m, madness!
This house is full of m, m, mistakes!
by qin on Nov 1, 2009 4:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. Jackson is hopeless.
Never understood the former love affair with his lame play and bad attitude, but now everybody should be able to see he’s stopping the development of this club. (If there is any.) Magette would have some value in a functioning offense. But the W’s don’t have one. So he doesn’t.
by formerlythecity on Nov 1, 2009 4:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maggette is only useful if he’s driving to the basket and getting hit. Those laser outside shots are dreadful to watch. Who knows how it even gets above the rim or why he thinks that is a good shot for him to take with 25 sec left in the shot clock. I’ll take I’ll take an upset stack jack before a 3-14 uh-oh maggette-o’s
by Frisco on Nov 2, 2009 3:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The reason why we are so dysfunctional offensively is due to the selfish play of Corey Maggette and Stephen Jackson. They always hold onto the ball for too long, they don't shoot well, they refuse to pass or play defense and neither fits in with us.
Don’t you realized they would pass if that was in the game plans? If they were practicing a passing oriented offense they’d do it in the games. You’re barking up the wrong tree dawg.
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Oct 31, 2009 11:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That's why Nellie is a voting option
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
by dubzfan on Oct 31, 2009 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, because
neither Jackson or Maggette were that type of player before they started playing for Nelson.
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 1, 2009 9:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't agree with that.
Curry passes all the time. What coach is going to tell his players not to move the ball? It has to be on Maggette, Jackson, and then Nellie because he’s allowing this crap to go on.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
by kenntoe on Nov 1, 2009 1:41 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Option C is misleading.
Maggs and Jack are indeed black holes, but it’s Nellie’s fault for giving them too much PT.
"Monta is the MAN." -Bob Fitzgerald
by WarriorForLife on Nov 1, 2009 12:09 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
game 2 was a misnomer, but technically Jack is averaging 32 min & Corey 22.
i think if you polled most fans, they’d be okay with those #‘s. for whatever reason, Corey’s just been unusually bad the 1st 2 games.
by homer simpson on Nov 1, 2009 7:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My solution to this problem is to play Maggs like crazy, until he’s too injured to play. Then insurance covers him. That’s when he’s a trade commodity. heh heh We also trade Jack plus expirings for T-Mac. As far as Nellie being the devil, the guy has a proven track record. After TWO GAMES, people are freaking out about him? That’s just silly.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
by Naticus2 on Nov 1, 2009 12:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Maggette will be better than his first two games. I still think Jack is the one that needs to go. Maybe it’s just the media representation of him, but he seems to have distanced himself as much as possible from most of the team. If he’s playing for himself, he’s got to go.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
by kenntoe on Nov 1, 2009 1:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've been freaking out about him...
…the the last 80-100 games, actually. His track record doesn’t mean much if he’s going to steadfastly ignore recent history. Every time he subs in Maggette at the four, he’s making a coaching decision unfounded by results, both statistical and tangible. Yet he continues to do it as if he has no other choice, or more chillingly perhaps, cause he likes the idea.
by Zack Vank on Nov 1, 2009 6:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My opinion is that he’s focusing on developing the young players. He uses playing time to “manipulate” them, i.e. push them into playing the game the way he considers the right way. I think sitting Wright and Randolph has been an attempt on Nellie’s part to reign them in. I don’t know that it’s the best approach, but I don’t think it’s a bad idea. I especially think it’s good for
Randolph to sit, when he plays out of control.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
by Naticus2 on Nov 1, 2009 8:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's just hope
this team can win 25 games so we can begin the rebuilding process (including a new man at the helm) that should have begun in ernest when Baron was running south for the cash …
by hardcore on Nov 1, 2009 1:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's just hope
this team can win exactly 15 games and get the number 1 pick in the draft. Thats likely the quickest way to respectability.
I think its time to start up all the comments about TANKING, and we’re only 2 games into the season!!!!! haha.
by freerandolph on Nov 1, 2009 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They need to take back Kirilenko’s contract and anything else the Jazz want to dump on them in order to acquire that unprotected NYKs pick.
Anything to increase their chances at a top 3 pick. Probably won’t get them to bite, but I’d be disappointed if I ever found out that they didn’t even try.
This team desperately needs a "this guy has never played in the NBA but he’s a sure fire star player. "
by homer simpson on Nov 1, 2009 9:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
15 isn't enough to
unhitch ourselves from the big DN tractor trailer
by hardcore on Nov 1, 2009 12:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta be Jackson
Maggette’s selfishness on the court isn’t a surprise. He is giving the effort, his shots just aren’t falling and unfortunatley he doesn’t seem to know that it is allowed to pass the ball.
Jackson on the other hand looks like he is doing just enough to make it look like he is giving an effort. On offense he sits in a spot and demands the ball and on D he isn’t helping on the glass.
by ajtrinc on Nov 1, 2009 1:00 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd because you and me are saying the same things.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
by kenntoe on Nov 1, 2009 1:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Voted for Jackson
I had to go with Stephen Jackson. I think Corey Maggette is fine if he stops taking jump shots. He’s aggressive both offensively and defensively. If Maggette just puts his head down and charges the hoop, it’s fine by me. It doesn’t help, though, that Nelson plays Maggette at power forward.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Nov 1, 2009 9:25 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. When we’re in a small ball lineup, Maggette needs to play closer to the basket. Nelson has stated he wants Maggette driving as much as possible. Maggette must have forgotten that the drive sets up his jumpshot. Not the other way around, Corey.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
by kenntoe on Nov 1, 2009 1:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Monta part of the problem too
For a warriors team always rebuilding, always identifying new up and coming ‘cores’ its depressing to think we are on that track again. But Stephen Jackson and Monta Ellis are playing outrageously selfish basketball. They both have huge egos, they want to prove they can ‘put the team on their back’ and take on five defenders. They both want to be traded. Monta thinks he is a franchise player, which he is not. Neither of them wants to see Morrow, Randolph, or Curry steal their thunder.
Its time to rebuild again without even giving this supposed ‘core’ a chance because there is no way they are the answer. The franchise seriously botched a unique chemistry coming out of ‘we believe’, that’s obvious and now we have to start over again, even trading Monta, he looks to be just as much of a cancer as Jackson. Sad but true. Time to let Randolph and Curry figure things out themselves.
As for Maggette, he is being the player he has always been and you really can’t fault him for that. He’s not really selfish, its just what he has to offer. I have always found a few things fascinating about Maggette: he has absolutely no left hand and goes right every single time; if people didn’t foul him or he didn’t get the calls, I’m not sure he could hit more than 35% of his shots. Its amazing to me he’s made a career out of running straight into defenders and hoping for a call. The other observation, which is the reason he comes off as selfish is he just isn’t capable of making a good pass after driving, whether it is a lack of dexterity or what, he just cannot make a decent kick out after driving. Once he drives, he has to go all the way. How does an NBA player make a career out of going right every time and hoping for a call. Baffles me.
by timhudson on Nov 1, 2009 9:40 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
rec’d.
The problem with these “cores” are they consist of “IF players.” If he reaches his potential, if he bulks up, if he gets a consistent jumper, if… if… if…
What they need is a player that has never played in the NBA, but everyone is sure he’s going to be great. The kind that makes an impact as a rookie b/c he’s so good – the Webbers, P. Hardaways, Kidds, Hills, Duncans, Brons, Melos, Roses, etc.,.
by homer simpson on Nov 1, 2009 9:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ellis is lacking confidence and doesn’t trust his teammates much either. I think he may come around. He’s probably not as bad as people have been making him out to be.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
by Naticus2 on Nov 1, 2009 8:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess if you’re not putting them on a wall, the ground is as good a place as any to carve runes.
by jae on Nov 1, 2009 7:17 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Jack and Maggs are very different players!
I understand why people aren’t crazy about having these guys on our team, but let’s not confuse the two.
Jackson is a selfish player who’s also an inefficient scorer.
Maggette is a selfish player who is an efficient scorer.
It may be true that Maggette’s selfishness hurts the team more than his efficient play (and decent rebounding – when he’s a 3), but that is a very difficult question to answer. Looking at the picture you posted of Mags, it looks like he’s getting fouled, which means it looks like he’s probably going to end up at the line and help the team.
by Ronaldinho on Nov 1, 2009 8:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Did it really help the team?
It may have killed the ball movement and flow of the game all together. It may not have. But recently he is just shooting jumpers, yes it’s only 2 games but I think it’s a sign of him declining. Notice when he shoots he does not get his legs into it anymore like he used to be. Now it’s almost like a standing shot. Both of them have turnover issues and neither of them seem to give it there all and there “poison” will spread if we don’t do something about it. What bothers me most is that such a physical and athletic player with strength, size, hops and such reckless abandon can’t guard a sole on defense.
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
by dubzfan on Nov 1, 2009 8:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Defense is really about desire
I remember how everybody was saying that Donyell Marshall would never be a good defender, how he simply lacked the lateral quickly. And then he committed himself to defense, and became our stopper, being repeatedly put on the other team’s top forward. He became a fantastic defender.
The transformation of several Celtic’s D after the arrival of Garnett should be a reminder that a lot of guys who are “bad defenders” simply aren’t trying very hard.
Nellie has rarely had a commitment to defense, so I doubt that’s going to change this season. But I really doubt that Mags couldn’t be an adequate defender if he wanted to be.
Somebody’s just got to decide that it matters.
Is he relying on his jump shot too much? Maybe. But it’s been two games. Don’t panic just yet.
by Ronaldinho on Nov 2, 2009 12:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the limitation to this though is that under Nellie defensive performances are going to have to come from within. The notion that Nellie doesn’t care about defense isn’t entirely true, but it isn’t entirely false either. While players can do more to improve their individual defense, there’s a range of “innate” ability. Some players are just better defenders independent of their environment regardless of whether or not that “innate” ability reflects passion or athletic skill or some acquired knowledge.
Even post-Bucks, Nellie has had good defensive teams. A few of those Mavs teams were among the better defensive squads in the league. But they seemed to reflect the personnel rather than any team culture or coaching instruction. His 02-03 Mavs squad was 9th in defensive efficiency, top 3rd of the league. The 03-04 squad dropped to 26th. Some notable differences between those two squads? The latter gave a whole lot more minutes to Antawn Jamison and Antoine Walker as ‘bigs’ in small ball lineups. They took minutes away from LaFrentz and Shawn Bradley and Eduardo Najera. Say what you want about either and neither were fantastic players, but they both made it hard for the opposition to get off shots in the paint and Bradley provided a better rebounding base than running three guards out there with Jamison and Nowitzki. To some degree that’s the same case with Maggs. He’s a good rebounder if he’s a 2/3, as he was for all of his prior career. He’s a huge defensive liability as a 4.
I agree that it’s not time to panic about Maggs’ scoring. He’s been remarkably efficient for his career. Its’ unlikely that these two games indicate that he’s gone from well above average to “shouldn’t even be in the league” between the end of the pre-season and now.
by jae on Nov 2, 2009 9:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Transition Defense
Our horrendous transition and “semi-transition” defense is the prime reason for our struggles. To some extent, this is a function of Jackson and Maggette dominating the ball on offense because it results in turnovers and a lack of ball movement (allowing defenders to leak out), but we are getting run against on made baskets too. I don’t think there is any explanation for this other than our team having a low basketball IQ. While it would be nice to say that this should improve as we gain experience, I am not sure there is a whole lot of evidence to back that up. I don’t think the sky is falling yet, and Phoenix has the best transition offense in the NBA, but this needs to get fixed soon.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
by Supafishal on Nov 2, 2009 9:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I don’t see any elite level defenders on this team. Aside from Jack I don’t even see any above average ones. Buike has shown in spurts he is committed, as has curry. But this squad is made up of well below average NBA defenders.
A lot of defense comes from experience too. Since we are painfully young, there will be problems. Now thing back to the We believe team, featured a bunch of NBA vets, they may have been undersized but they played good defense for what they did (they were going to get out-rebounded/muscled with a 4 guard lineup, but they made up for it w/ good perimeter D and getting out on the break from it).
Sadly I’ll always wonder what ‘could have been’ if we could have got KG for Monta + draft pick + who knows. Baron, Jack, Barnes, Garnett, Biedrins would have been a committed defensive squad. Adding Garnett would have also given us the marquee name to attract mid level free gents who want ‘to win’ like Boston, San Antonio, LA do. But it never happened, and that’s life as a Warriors fan under Cohan, always wondering “what if”
by tafkasam on Nov 2, 2009 12:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maggs definitely
btw I read the title as “ruining”
I will always be your fan JRich. Good Luck
by chili01 on Nov 2, 2009 12:20 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
both sucks
who can we get in return for them?
=Gaucho=
by Gaucho! on Nov 3, 2009 10:43 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
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