Rumor: Stephen Jackson for Zydrunas Ilgauskas
by Jayd92009 on Oct 8, 2009 11:49 PM PDT
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PrintWas reading Marcus Thompson's blog and saw the trade rumor here:
http://www.ibabuzz.com/warriors/2009/10/08/would-you-trade-jax-for-ilgauskas/
If this is indeed true and Riley manages to pull off this trade, this would be a real coup for the warriors. The warriors get a big man that they desperately need while also getting an expiring contract that will open up the books for them in the free agency. In addition, I think Ilgauskas could help the warriors defend bigger centers in the leauge: Howard, Bynum, Shaq. Meanwhile, the Warriors will lose a disgruntled player that doesn't like to pass and is playing pretty bad now. The warriors need to make this trade because next year's free agency is probably the best of the decade.
via cache.boston.com
So Stephen Jackson for Ilgauskas? Whaddya think.
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Do it!
He is an expiring deal and a big one at that. This way Ronny can move to the backup four and we get more deph up front as well. We also lose logjam at small forward.
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "Your a rookie"
HE CAN'T MOVE !
How the heck is Big Z supposed to to get up and down with our Warriors ?!
Dr. Jeff
Z’s lumbersome gait is still faster than Jax when Jax is standing at mid court grousing over the call he didn’t get.
by jae on Oct 9, 2009 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
Mid court! We're talking about mid-court?!?!
Puh-leeze, it was usually beyond the FT line (the wrong one).
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 9, 2009 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Well
first of all, he could be our backup to Biedrins. Plus when the game slows down (and it will many times during the season against good defensive teams) then it will be handy to have Ilgauskas.
Depends
It definitely won’t be a one for one trade, so who else is involved?
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
Possibly
one of our expiring contracts in law, claxton, george, moore, and watson and one of their players: gibson, varejao, or west.
Too good to be true, I’m thinking. Any expiring would be a stellar return, and while Z doesn’t fit our style, he could back up Beans some, allowing Ronny to back up Randolph at the four. We should be so lucky — I don’t think anything gets done along these lines.
Maybe. But then again, there aren’t many folks available out there to help the Cavs win a championship. They may also feel they’ll need someone to help fill the void if both Shaq and LeBron leave. Jackson was apparently our best player last year. He can certainly contribute. Of course, after last night’s debacle, perhaps they won’t want Jack anymore.
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I have a feeling the Cavs could do way better for trading away a starting veteran center & large expiring contract.
They could trade for Chris Bosh? Andrei Kirilenko? Carlos Boozer? Gerald Wallace? Michael Redd?
Why would they trade for Stephen Jackson.
"We Deserve"
Do you really think they can get any of those guys? Redd is very expensive by the way. Which one of those teams is desperate for Ilgauskus, an aging, rather slow, offensive deficient player? The Raptors would rather have Biedrins than Ilgauskus, the Jazz are NOT giving up Kirilenko, if they don’t have to… Carlos Boozer, I can see. But is that what they need? They just gave Verejao a good contract, and he’s done well for them. Boozer is injury prone. What do the Jazz want Ilgauskas for, anyway? They don’t. I don’t know that Wallace would help the Cavs. Redd is old, too. Granted, I’m sure the Cavs are shopping around. But Jax may appear to them a useful cog in their machine and one that is viable. There is NO WAY they are going to get Bosh or Kirilenko.
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Ilgauskas has more value as a giant expiring contract than as an actual player. The fact that he is a starting center with playoff experience is a big icing on the cake though.
Any team that isn’t a championship contender would live to trade a huge contract for an expiring one right now. We are in a recession you know. The salary cap is dropping. Owners are losing alot of money. And all the big name free agents are on the market in 2010.
"We Deserve"
We have expiring contracts to give up, too, as do other teams. Ilgauskus, old and slow, is not going to attract a lot of teams. He’s better than our expirings, but we could throw in bonuses like Wright, Azubuike or Turiaf. Turiaf plus Claxton is way better than Ilgauskus, if a team is looking for a good center.
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I would do this so quick
Except I’d have a bad taste in my mouth about sending Jack to a winning team, I was hoping for him to go to place somehow worse than us
I think this would be a good move. Of course, if we had Ilgauskas, maybe Jax would want to stay. Ilgauskas is a great defender and would solve a lot of our interior problems. He is slow, however. If we really want to save money:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yh5nqau
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Yeah the move saves a lot of money, but does little else. The Warriors would add another shoot-first guard and a superstar swingman well past his prime. But I guess it can’t get any worse when we’re unloading a headcase and clearing out our massive glut at the guard spots.
by WYK on Oct 9, 2009 1:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, it’s more about rebuilding. We could also at least make a bid for Wade next year. No, I don’t think we could get him.
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Sentence C brings into question the purpose of the actions suggested by sentence B.
Either way you’re trading Jax and Monta for cap space. We should be able to do better.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 9, 2009 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions
It would be a real coup
just to move Jackson at all, so yes I would. P.S. You misspelled Zydrunas in the poll question.
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Yes, yes, yes, a thousand times yes.
Especially with the injury to Wright, we need another big.
"Monta is the MAN." -Bob Fitzgerald
I guess so. .
I would like a little bit more in return for giving up our best overall player. We’re definitely not a 40+ win team without Jack. I would like to see what this team can do in the regular season before we wash our hands of him because we are stacked with talented players and well….he’s still our best one. However, I will definitely be all for it if he quits on the team or pulls an Al Harrington.
"At the end of the day, you've just got to put the ball in the hole."
Make this happen ... please?
We could throw in Claxton and Law and take back Delonte West:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
Trade rids them of a completely superfluous big man and an increasingly unhinged nutjob, and doesn’t significantly increase their salary burden for their campaign to extend LeBron.
We get DeNutcase West, who’s a better player than Cap’n Jack, and Big Z, who even if he can’t move is a better fourth big man than Mikki Moore.
Only downside I see to this is that Jackson is granted his wish to play on a bona fide championship contender. He deserves worse.
There will be no extra point!
yup
where do I sign? I hope this comes through.
I couple more (optimistic) reasons why this trade might at least be within the realm of possibiity…
1. I don’t think the current Jackson is really a plus for any team, but it was pretty clear to me in Cleveland’s ECF loss against Orlando that their lack of long, versatile wing players (other than that James kid) to match up with Shard/Turk/MP2 was an issue. So even if Jack is a marginally worse player than Delonte, he might fit them better. Plus, Delonte’s extremely erratic behavior of late could well be seen as an unwanted wildcard on a team with serious championship aspirations. Obviously Jackson has a rather “wild” history too, but I think on the whole he’s perceived as a good teammate and a winner. I imagine his championship ring alone would be a selling point for the Cavs.
2. I don’t think Cleveland’s management is particularly savvy. If this were, say, Houston and Daryl Morey, I’d say forget it. Cleveland might just be silly enough to be tempted.
I could imagine it coming down to whether they want to take on an extra $3.8M (the difference in 2010/11 salary between Jack and Delonte) while they’re trying to woo LeBron. Either way they’ll obviously offer LeBron the stars and the moon and the mayor of Cleveland’s firstborn … but maybe the capologists can weigh on on the luxury tax implications of their roster with and without Jackson added to the mix?
There will be no extra point!
yup
As annoyed as we all are with Jack right now (and justifiably so), I think he’d still be a good teammate on a team he was happy about; Stephen Jackson in a Cavs uniform is a bigger asset than Stephen Jackson in a Warriors uniform. If they believe the hype about his defense being something special, I guess I could see it. And the idea of us swallowing Delonte is interesting… I’d definitely be down for that.
I agree. Jackson would most likely be useful for the Cavs. It’s not like they have a plethora of talent outside of Shaq and LeBron.
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It’s not like they have a plethora of talent outside of Shaq and LeBron
I disagree. Those two are obviously the biggest names on the roster, but West is probably a better player than Jackson, Mo Williams isn’t exactly bad. Varejao is a pretty dang effective big man. Hickson has been impressive at times early in his career. Big Z is still pretty productive. Parker is a guy I think most teams would be crazy to not want in their rotation. If Powe can come back healthy he’ll certainly help. I’m not a huge Jamario Moon fan, but in an end of the rotation role he’s not awful. I think LeBron’s got way more help this year than he has the last couple years and its not all because of the Shaq acquisition.
Thing A
Yeah, I forgot about Mo. He is pretty good… not great, though. Still, that is FAR from a plethora of talent. Also, West is apparently mentally ill, isn’t he? He doesn’t even show up for practice.
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well that obviously depends on your definition of “plethora of talent.” Are their 3rd-9th best players currently worse than the respective 3rd-9th best players of their main competition (Lakers, Magic, Celtics, or Spurs)? Maybe slightly, but its not a massive gap. Teams like the Blazers and perhaps even the Warriors may have a little more quality at the bottom of their rotation and the bottom of their roster, but LeBron alone probably has more talent than 80% of the Warriors roster combined. If the Cavs had what you seem to define as a “plethora of talent” in addition to LeBron and Shaq I don’t think we’d probably even need to play the season out to declare an NBA champion.
Thing A
I think the Cavs seem better, because they have LeBron. Take him out, they’re pretty terrible. You’re overestimating the rest of the team, IMO.
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Take Howard off the Magic and thats probably not a playoff team, remove Wade from the Heat and you’ve got the worst team in the NBA, take Paul from the Hornets and they are terrible, take Roy from the Blazers and they likely aren’t very good…… many teams are like that, that doesn’t mean there’s no other talent there at all it just means they were built around one superstar.
Thing A
Yeah, the Heat without Wade would probably be worse. Then again, the Cavs have great coaching and fantastic chemistry. Individual talent-wise, they are bad, other than Shaq and LeBron. Even Mo is just better than average. He’s not great. I never said there is NO other talent. I’m just saying that they’re not very talented, other than LeBron and Shaq. A third guy, like Jackson, would probably help them… assuming he doesn’t hurt team chemistry too much.
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I don’t totally disagree. Again it just comes down to your definition of “plethora of talent.” I just think their 2nd through 8th best players could match up ok with the 2nd through 8th best guys on several teams. They do seem to be coached well, and there are a lot of guys who seem to do only one or two things well. As for Jack’s impact there, I just feel that West is a better player than Jackson, and he’s 5 years younger. What you said about bipolarity would certainly make me want to know much more about it before pulling the trigger on a deal for him. The Cavs really did get killed by the Magic’s longer wing players so I can see the case for Jackson over West on that team, but I don’t think it would be a talent upgrade for them. If West is stable and healthy I’d have no problem with a 4 guard rotation of Monta/West/Curry/Morrow. West doesn’t help with our backcourt size issues but he plays bigger than he is, is an adequate playmaker, a solid rebounder, and a good defender. When you consider that he’s a better shooter (from everywhere) than Jackson and he’ll also allow Morrow, Curry, and Monta to get more offensive touches and more minutes than Jackson would and I think its likely worth the risk of gambling on his mental health.
Thing A
I’d say it’s a 50/50 that he’d be bust. He’s already missing practices. If his bipolar illness escalates to psychosis, he’d end up in the hospital and on medications that might prevent him from ever playing NBA level ball again. Twenty percent of bipolar males commit suicide by age 25. I’ve got a buddy with mild bipolar who is doing well on medication. On the other hand, that’s not remotely typical. Delonte missing games and carrying guns is a red flag. The guy may already be finished.
To miss games from bipolar illness means he’s either very depressed or very manic. Either way, the guy is probably in serious trouble and not just his career.
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I just think their 2nd through 8th best players could match up ok with the 2nd through 8th best guys on several teams.
Several? Now that’s a pretty strong statement. So, what are we talking about? 3? 5? 7 teams?
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by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 12, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
... did you watch the playoffs last year?
Williams and West are no where near as good as Jackson.
I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic or not. I’ll assume you arent. In the playoffs last year West averaged roughly 14 points, 4 assists and 3.5 rebounds with a TS% of .550 in about 40 minutes a game. Its not great per minute production, but its not completely awful either. Considering a 14 game sample size is a pretty terrible way to measure a player’s worth, lets compare career numbers. Per minute West has averaged more assists, more rebounds, more steals, more blocks, fewer turnovers, and shot a better percentage from the line, the field, and 3 point range than Jackson. Both are regarded as above average defensively, though I would personally say West is quite a bit better on that end. West is 5 years younger and likely has at least a few more years of prime level production left in him than Jackson does. I’m interested to hear what measure you’re using when you say that West is nowhere near as good as Jackson. Points per game, maybe? Thats obviously an incredibly accurate and reliable way to measure worth. Or maybe it has to do with Jackson’s “leadership qualities” and “locker room presence”?
Thing A
I think they play as a team and play off of LeBron very efficiently. Their individual talent is weak. Great coaching, a team that is willing to buy into the coach’s philosophy and LeBron combined means wins. Individual talent other than LeBron and Shaq? Pretty dang weak, other than their defense, which is solid.
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The part about West being a better player than Jackson is something that seems to be ignored. I agree, and I think that trade would be a huge win for us even if West is even more nutty than Jack. To get this deal done I’d probably even be willing to throw in Turiaf instead of Claxton if Cleveland is concerned about Varejao and Shaq being the only two healthy and experienced bigs on the roster.
Monta/Curry
Morrow/West
Buike/Maggette
Randolph/Biedrins
Biedrins/Big Z
I honestly think that rotation is probably better than what we’re looking at now and it makes the long term salary cap situation a whole lot less ugly. If Monta wants out in a couple months we’ll have plenty of expiring contracts to pair him with to get something valuable in return and hopefully he’ll have increased his trade value by playing well in the first half of the season.
Thing A
Can't see this one
Why in heck would Nelson add a player who doesn’t run the floor? I’m sure if Nelson feels Jackson will be a negative this year he’ll attempt to move him for a big who better matches the Warrior style of play. Nelson doesn’t have the time to change the team to a different style of play. These guys are going to have to run, run, run this year.
It’d be a financial move, not a basketball one… Z’s certainly not a prototypical Warrior. Still and all, I think Nellie would have fun using Z as an oddball weapon here and there. Nellie’s been hankering for a center who can shoot, and this is the guy who was enamored with both Shawn Bradley and Manute. It wouldn’t be a boring addition.
Big Z would probably only get 10-20 minutes a game, and that’s assuming he’s even healthy enough to play. He also seems like an experienced “good guy” who could teach AB, AR, and even RT a thing or two about patrolling the post.
Most importantly: we get rid of Jackson. Any actual production or instruction Ilgauskas or West provide would just be gravy.
There will be no extra point!
Good point about helping the young guys. Just hope Z can keep up in practice. Maybe he just won’t be part of the running drills or something. Who knows.
Also, Nellie had a similar big man in Manute Bol and he was able to use him, albeit in quirky ways. Z is obviously much more talented than Manute was so I think this trade possibility has some real value to it.
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Oct 9, 2009 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions
a karmic fantasy:
Makes this trade happen…
The youngsters develop and show they can play without Capt Jack.
Ellison buys the team, and in 2010…
uses the expirings to entice LeBron to the Bay.
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
'cept
Cleveland didn’t do anything to deserve such poor luck.
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
I like Big Z
Remember when he was an all-star? Seems like so long ago.
You saw the ECFs. Big Z couldn’t defend Howard. I don’t think he’ll hold up against the other big, tough defenders in the league. However, the fact that he’s an expiring contract definitely makes him attractive.
The big downside is sending Jack to a winning team. They definitely could use a big 2 to put alongside Mo or West. Although, they did pretty well last year when Mo and West were in the backcourt.
What’s Z’s role on Cleveland right now? Is he backing up Shaq? or the other way around?
This is Kristin Kreuk, now zip it. - GTTM
Shaq’s obviously the starter. Question is whether they’d be OK with just Varejão and/or some vet-minimum type to back him up.
Realistically, we might have to consider throwing in Turiaf and taking back another salary to make it work (Gibson or Parker I guess … preferably Parker b/c of his shorter contract). Seems a bit lopsided since young, healthy Turiaf is probably a slight upgrade over old, lumbering Z. Maybe we extort my lover Leon Powe to even things up a bit? Something like…
Jackson / Turiaf / Law / Claxton
for
Ilgauskas / Powe / Anthony Parker
Would people still consider it if meant including Turiaf? Given the physical question marks surrounding both Z and Powe, and the durability of Jack and Turiaf, I’d imagine the Cavs would have a tough time turning that deal down…
There will be no extra point!
Interesting — that’s the first iteration I really get from Cleveland’s perspective. Really hurts us this year, but I’m okay with that, given the right deal…
I think that’d be worthwhile for us. As much as I love Ronny, he’s not a difference-maker, definitely not as good as a healthy Powe. Would we ever get a healthy Powe? Hard to say. But given the expiring deal and the removal of Jack, I think that’s a deal worth making.
I wouldn’t do it. Ronny is young and healthy. I like him better than Powe simply because of Leon’s health issues. Powe is a Bay Area COLLEGE legend and a nice guy. But, even healthy, I have doubts his professional career has looked better than it should’ve because he played on the league’s best team.
Please don’t give up a wonderful contract in Turiaf, some much needed healthy meat to augment our thin frontcourt, and a great teammate. Did anyone see Ronny being interviewed the other night by the Laker media? Our man was LOYAL to the dubs despite getting much love from LA. He could’ve been wistful about his circumstances and he didn’t bite. That is what we need more of around here.
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
Nope
If Turiaf is included, I wouldn’t consider it. He’s our energy guy right now. He brings toughness in the middle that Andris doesn’t. He’s also one of our best blockers.
I like Powe’s game but I wouldn’t give up Turiaf for him.
This is Kristin Kreuk, now zip it. - GTTM
I like Powe’s game but I wouldn’t give up Turiaf for him.
Well I dont think anyone would make that trade. But would you trade Turiaf if it meant also getting rid of Jackson contract for a guard who is actually probably a BETTER player than Jackson (albeit smaller and crazier than Jack) and a semi-productive bench big who could effectively play most of Turiaf’s minutes? I like Turiaf, but if Cleveland were to ask for him in this deal (and I think they’d be crazy not to) I can’t imagine why we would let a 3rd big man who doesn’t rebound very well hold this trade up even if he is one of the most likable Warriors.
Thing A
Delonte is also only 6’3". I’m not terribly excited about another undersized 2.
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Delonte has had experience at the point while playing in Seattle, which is more than what we can say for Monta.
by WYK on Oct 9, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Did I mention he’s mentally ill? You know that will probably only get worse? He’s apparently bipolar enough to simply sit out pre-season games and carry three firearms at once. He will get worse, too. Hope he doesn’t kill himself and considering the gun possession, I hope he doesn’t kill someone else.
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Bipolar illness is degenerative. Taking medicines masks the symptoms, while the illness gets worse. There are exceptions to that rule, but bipolar illness is very serious. I can’t PROMISE he’ll get worse, but that would be typical. If he’s taking medications, he’ll likely suffer from side-effects, too. He’s not a good investment at all.
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If he were being treated in Canada, I might feel differently. Those guys have an interesting approach:
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A reasonable trade would be
Jackson, Azibuike, and Turiaf
for
Ilgauskas and West
Would give Cleveland a backup center and a 2 good wing players with nice size. For us it would sting to lose Turiaf and Azibuike, but West is a good player and plays good hard defense. Getting rid of Jackson and his attitude and his contract would be great.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Oct 9, 2009 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Its really not that awful. West’s recent diagnosis has probably hurt his trade value so I’m not sure it would take quite that much but West is probably a better player than Jackson and the gap between the productivity of Ilgauskas and Turiaf isn’t so massive that we should expect the Cavs to be incredibly eager to bite the bullet on Jackson’s contract in order to make that upgrade at their bench big man position. Because of West’s recent problems I think its likely we should be able to get a similar deal done with an expiring contract going out instead of Azubuike, but its not a totally ridiculous trade proposal.
Thing A
Maybe if they threw in a first round draft pick. West is mentally ill, as in bipolar. That is a degenerative disorder and completely unpredictable. He’s not very likely to get better, and you never know when he’s going to attempt suicide or just go on a trip to Mexico. He doesn’t show up to their first two practices and of course, the Cavs are thinking, “Let’s get someone less crazy who is proven and reliable.” If they are serious about winning a championship, Jackson for Delonte is a no-brainer for them.
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Throw away another season woohoo
And I got a Q, what are we gonna do with all this cap space next year? We cant sign anyone special..
So how exactly is it “throwing the season” to flip an old, disgruntled mediocre swing man who can’t jump high, run fast, or shoot well for an old, happy mediocre 7’2" center who can’t jump or run but can rebound and shoot a little?
I don’t think anyone said anything about “cap space.” That the least of the good reasons to make a Jack/Z deal.
There will be no extra point!
It’s not among the top reasons to make the deal, but it could be an interesting factor. Let’s look at our salary situation for next year (any corrections would be appreciated, as I’m sure I’m messing something up here).
2010-11
Monta Ellis: $11,000,000
Andris Biedrins: $9,000,000
Corey Maggette: $9,600,000
Stephen Jackson: $8,450,000
Ronny Turiaf: $4,000,000
Brandan Wright: $3,398,071 (team option)
Kelenna Azubuike: $3,364,000
Acie Law: $2,940,844 (team option)
Stephen Curry: $2,913,840
Anthony Randolph: $1,965,720 (team option)
Anthony Morrow: $1,029,389
It’s safe to assume that we will pick up Randolph’s option and that we won’t pick up Law’s… the only tough decision is Wright. If we pick up Wright, our payroll is $54.72 million going into next year; if we don’t, it’s $51.32 million. Now let’s toss in the possibility of trading Jack and expirings for Z’s expiring deal (let’s disregard extra pieces for now). What are the possible cap scenarios for next season?
Current Roster: $54.72 million
Current Roster – Wright: $51.32 million
Current Roster – Jack: $46.27 million
Current Roster – Jack – Wright: $42.87 million
The current cap is $57.7 million, and it’s expected to go a bit lower next year… the NBA’s July memo told GMs to anticipate a ‘10-’11 cap between $50.4 million and $53.6 million. So we’re not going to be hugely under just by virtue of dumping Jack. According to the best guesses of Storyteller, these are the teams with cap space (assuming the high $53.6 cap figure):
New York: $23.3 million
New Jersey: $22.9 million
Miami: $21.5 million
OKC: $14.5 million
Chicago: $12.8-$18.1 million (the latter figure if Salmons opts out early)
Minnesota: $11.4 million
Clippers: $11.2 million
Sacramento: $7.6 million
Houston: $7.5 million (if Yao stays; if he opts out, a buttload more)
We’d be $7.3M under with Wright, $10.7M without. Even in the rosiest scenario, we’re not going to be competitive for the top-tier FAs.
But we could have cap space that is greater than the mandated amount of the MLE ($5.2 million this year, probably close to that next year). In a field heavy with talent and short on teams with money, that could actually be pretty interesting. We could basically outbid all the capped-out teams for the guys that fall to MLE level when the bigger guys sign. Grabbing a guy like David Lee or a rehabbing T-Mac wouldn’t be out of the question.
I’m not saying guys like that would be franchise-saving additions, and given that we might have to renounce Wright to get ourselves in the bidding, it’s a mixed bag at best. But cap space could be a variable here.
by onlxn on Oct 9, 2009 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
+1, nice write up.
If we traded Turiaf it would free up another 4 million, that would give us about 12 million next year if we also factor in our first draft pick. Like you said we wouldnt be able to grab a top tier player, but maybe Rudy Gay or another second tier free agent.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Oct 9, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
but maybe Rudy Gay or another second tier free agent.
This one of my greatest fear. With $10-12 to spend, they’d find someone to spend it on, whether or not that player is worth the cash. This not being a feature NBA destination, this tends to net you a Maggette. Second tier FAs tend to be overpriced and deliver little for the money. Gay at $10-12 is a poor investment in a forward who needs to play guard because he doesn’t rebound well enough to play forward but doesn’t involve any other players enough to suggest that he belongs on the wing. He isn’t an efficient scorer (though not horrid) but his ppg total suggests that someone is going to drop too much money on him.
Let it be someone else.
by jae on Oct 9, 2009 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Use Big Z in a 3way trade
-What about Josh Smith? Atlanta has been looking to move him all offseason. What about a 3 way with him coming?
-What about a 3 way for Amare? We send Big Z + bwright and turiaf?
-what about Luol Deng in a 3way?
-What about Big Z to houston for something (unsure what they’d give…)
point being. Even with Big Z’s expiring, we won’t be able to sign anyone worthwhile (just overpay for a maggette type), so we might as well use it in a 3 way to pick up a young potential piece or some side pieces which will help us
is that a serious post?
You can hate jack all you want, he is still a 100000000 better player IN the GSW system than Big Z. Big Z hobbles up and down worse than adonal. Yes he can hit jumpers and rebounds well, but he plays at a different pace than everyone of our players, and I can’t see nellie changing the system for big Z.
Z is also 34. Jack may be 31 but he is in much better shape than Z.
i’m not saying don’t make the trade but why not explore the options of a 3 way? Trade Z to a team desperate to clear cap space. Or at least wait till deadline
he is still a 100000000 better player IN the GSW system than Big Z.
Thank you for clarifying the manner and quality of the reasoning behind your analysis. ;-P
The Warriors have at least two shooting guards who are more efficient than Jackson (Morrow, Monta) and at least two small forwards who are more efficient (Kelenna, Maggs). Jackson looks to have gained a lot of weight this season and lost whatever little quickness and athleticism he ever had. Jackson does not want to be here, has said so in no uncertain terms, and is playing like it. You can take Big Z out of the equation: the Warriors are very likely better off without Stephen Jackson than with him.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Oct 9, 2009 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I hear it’s muscle, and he’s been working out a lot. Of course, even that can make a player worse. Judging by his first two pre-season games, he seems terrible. I won’t assume he’s terrible yet, though. He needs to settle down, wise up and just play, so we can trade his sorry @$$.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
Ilgauskas looks mean?
He’s stomping on ET. .phone home…aaawww
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Oct 9, 2009 11:32 AM PDT reply actions
Yes
But not for Azubuike. I would consider including Wright or Moore (for sure). That way the salaries balance out and the Cavs front court could get a boost right around the end of the season (if Wright comes back at all).
Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!
if this happens
This will restore my faith in humanity and in a higher being.
my code name is "kelenna bahongpuki"
by VonteegoCummings on Oct 9, 2009 2:17 PM PDT reply actions
Take out Ilgauskas name and replace with "Expiring Contract"
This deal is strictly about Cleveland getting depth and the W’s unloading Jacksons contract.
Ilgauskas is the means to the end. Yeah, he might play but he’s in no way a piece the W’s puzzle. He even is saying this is his last year anyway.
So, in discussion of the merits of this rumored trade, the discussion should really be focused on: Does the subtraction of Jackson + additional cap space next season improve the Warriors for next year?
Just putting it in perspective…
Will Monta be better than Jackson next year?
Will Curry?
Will Morrow?
Will Azubuike?
Will Maggette?
Will Wright?
Will Randolph?
Will Delonte West?
That’s pretty much everyone who might conceivably play 2 or 3 for the Warriors next year. Without doing the math, I think that’s more than enough players to cover the 96 minutes total at those positions. And I’m pretty sure every single one of those players will be better than Stephen Jackson next season.
So yeah, even if Jackson totally rescinds his trade demand and stops pouting, and even if we do absolutely nothing with the cap space, giving Jackson away for nothing is a big net plus for the team.
There will be no extra point!
Haha, well … “might conceivably.” ;-) He is at least fast and athletic, and will likely improve his shot from 10-14 ft. I’d don’t think SF suits his skill-set at all, but rather have him as my starting SF than 33 year-old Stephen Jackson.
There will be no extra point!
Don't want to get too much into this...
But I say the Warriors SHOULD do it, but won’t. :-)
Golden State Warriors fan since 1984. The Filipino sensation!
The loudest Warrior fan in Section 208, Row DS, Seats 15-16.
Just putting it out there.
I know it’s to early but if we make the playoffs we could get Wright back which would give us a lot of deph against our opponent. Still too early to tell though.
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "Your a rookie"
Playoffs!?!?! Playoffs!?!!?
(read in Jim Mora’s voice)
For future reference
You should either include link
or an image:
It makes the reference so much funnier.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 12, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
One for suggesting playoffs. The other for suggesting that Wright is going to give us depth to help against our opponent. Given past performance, if we’re relying on Wright to give serious minutes in the postseason (chuckles), we’re doomed. But, given that we’d be the #8 seed anyways, sure. He’ll give us a shot at keeping the games within 30 of the Lakers.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 12, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
If the Dubs do this trade, who would be starting 2 and 3? Maggette/Azubuike?
And would Biedrins still be starting center?
I suspect this
C : Beans , Z
PF: AR, Ronny
SF: Buike, Maggs
SG: Ammo/Ellis/Curry
PG:Ellis/Curry, Law
Z is not fast enough to get up and down the court with us so I think he would just be a backup and a specialist. At most he would get 25 minutes with us.
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "Your a rookie"
by dubzfan on Oct 9, 2009 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Monta
Morrow
Azubuike
Randolph
Biedrins
The same starting 5 we should have even if we end up stuck with Jackson. There’s nothing in Jackson’s attitude, behavior or game right now that warrants a starting job, or even regular minutes. Here’s hoping the 9 minutes he played tonight is a harbinger of things to come.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Oct 9, 2009 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm watching SF Chronicle Live (filmed before todays game) and they're all saying
Jacks a profesional, he wont let this get in the way of his play. And some other good stuff…lol
I don’t think today’s game had anything to do with his trade demands. He just got mad and couldn’t control himself… figured it was the preseason and was no longer the team’s leader anyway. It’s a throw-away game for him. I don’t expect him to continue with this behavior at all. He doesn’t benefit in any way from it, and he hates to lose. He’ll at least try. I can’t say he’ll play well, though. He may just be in a slump and may have suddenly started sucking. Ya’ never know.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
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