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What's wrong with Monta

Clearly, we're not seeing the same guy. But, why? A few potential reasons:

 

1. His ankle isn't completely healed

Certainly a possibility, but with a relatively young guy with over a year to heal, and what with the injury not really being something used in basketball that much, I'm inclined to think it's probably not a big problem.

 

2. He's just rusty

It's been 6 months since he's been back. Sure, not a lot of live NBA action there, but he should be back up to speed. This is not the issue.

 

3. He's having a bad start

Sure, a definite possibility. Especially given the turmoil so far this season. However, he's also having some problems that have nothing to do with bad luck. He does not seem to be able to beat his man off the dribble last time we saw him at full speed.

 

4. Is he more the focus of the defensive attention

A possibility, certainly.

 

5. He bulked up too much.

I think this is definitely having an effect on his game.

Monta circa 07/08:

P1-monta-ellis_medium

via lottobound.files.wordpress.com


Monta circa 08/09:

Picimg_monta_ellis_of_8c09_medium

via cdn.picapp.com

 

 

Maybe it's just me, but Monta looks like he's been working out... a lot. He looks thicker in the trunk, he's got bigger (yes, tatted too) arms and much bigger shoulders. Is this added weight slowing him down? I say, yes.

 

The question, regardless of the reason, is: Can Monta adapt to the new body/defensive attention/etc. and get his offensive game and scoring efficiency back to where we'd all like it to be?

 

Now, I fully expect his jumper to come back within the next dozen games. Once this becomes more of a constant threat, defenses will not be able to key on his right hand, as it won't be his only major weapon. He definitely needs to develop his lefty drive a bit more as well, but that's not easy. It's especially mentally difficult to start using it in a game situation. It's a big confidence hurdle he'll have to pass, but it's one he absolutely needs, if he's going to be slower to the punch with his right.

 

Allen Iverson was successful because he was one tough cookie and his svetle frame was somehow able to take the punishment of constantly going inside while maintaining his quickness advantage. For all his faults, he was a special talent in that he was often the quickest player on the floor (in part because he never added "bulk") and could beat you going right even if you knew it was exactly where he wanted to go. I feel like this is something Monta had to some extent, but his recently added bulk has negatively impacted.

 

Overall, I really do like the defensive attitude and aggressiveness I've seen out of him, and he has not looked nearly as completely overpowered as he has in the past. This is a good thing, but the offensive game still needs to be there. I hope it's a learning curve, I hope he can get there, and I hope this is one of those "it gets worse before it gets better" things. However, I'm not remotely certain that this is the case. Sorry for the ramble, but I've been wondering if anybody else has noticed what I'm seeing. If Monta can play effectively with this added bulk, he can be a viable 2 guard beside Curry. The next hurdle would be getting Monta to accept that role...

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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To add....

His mental attitude does not seem to be there…which is either simply a juvenile mind not able to deal much with the stress of the situation (Jackson, Nelso, threat to his position, etc)

or he is genuinely not happy here and wants out, maybe to be nearer home? He is great friends with Harrington and Jackson and I suspect he just has not connected with the other young guys here… there is clearly an issue between him and Randolph after he tore strips of him… and he is probably jealous of Curry’s natural court IQ…

These are big issues that may never be resolved…. as he simply may never have the head for this league as a leader, whereas he thinks he does…

I agree it looks like he has put on some serious mass compared to his fast frame before… but again this is simply his mindset…. he strikes me as a young man with an ego and if Buike and Magette are getting the attention of the muscles, maybe he feels he wants to be seen as more powerful…..

The problem is… as you point out, this affects the core of his game which is lightening speed.

When he did the injury, I was one of the few guys having busted my ankle myself at college that said he may never get that explosive speed back again…

Unfortunately, I believe the moped incident HAS affected his ankle and thus he has decided to not rely on the speed element so much and maybe wants to convert his game to a powerful guard that can drive in more….

Who knows? But I think there is a very serious chance that he will never quite live up to the expectations that everyone had for him a couple of years ago and for that people will forever look at the moped incident as the reason for that…whether that is correct or not…

GSOM Blog Beast!

by BritWarriorGSW on Nov 14, 2009 5:30 AM PST reply actions  

whole - part - whole

all the factors you mention are part of the whole “problem” with Monta, and he is but one part of what is the problem with the whole team – the reverse dynamic is also probably at work: the team’s dysfunction is affecting young players the most. Look at what’s going on with AR as well: our up and coming star in the making is not making his way off the bench and onto the court some nights and when he gets there he’s not consistently effective. Like you say about Monta, the league very well may be game planning more now that there’s a book on these guys. Similarly for Morrow.

When Nelson’s replacement comes, when Jax is moved, when Andris and Turiaf get healthy etc. things might return to stable and the young players might thrive better … maybe

by hardcore on Nov 14, 2009 8:03 AM PST reply actions  

i think it's the bulk-up as well

i remember an interview he had two years ago talking about how speed was the key to his success. this year, a lot of his moves that would have been and1’s then are being called charges. maybe he lost his speed after the accident and bulked up to compensate. or maybe he bulked up and slowed down because of it.

the hope is that the loss of speed is not permanent. as much as i commend him for putting in the time to bulk up, he needs to get his body to match his game.

by dso on Nov 14, 2009 8:26 AM PST reply actions  

he's always had this problem

His most common move has been the PASS n CRASH – a jim barnett likes to call it.

Monta’s a good finisher, but not a smart player – which is why he’ll never make a great PG.

by joegiant on Nov 14, 2009 4:26 PM PST up reply actions  

he's just not a good player. period.

on a better team, nellie would coach better, jack would play better, but monta would be the same or worse. he sux. he’s the biggest problem, we thought he could fill baron’s shoes ? lmao , all those people hide and deny those claims now.

The Warriors aren't playing like the Raiders.
The Raiders are playing like the Warriors.

- Precise Films Productions

by AR4 on Nov 14, 2009 9:38 AM PST reply actions  

on a better team, nellie would coach better, jack would play better, but monta would be the same or worse. he sux. he’s the biggest problem, we thought he could fill baron’s shoes ? lmao , all those people hide and deny those claims now.

Here’s how I like to read contributions: “Opinion, thought, reasoning…” You seem to have stopped at Opinion.

Why would Monta be the same or worse, while Jax & Nellie would be better? He wasn’t supposed to fill Baron’s shoes. Baron was asking for too much, we didn’t give it to him. The Clippers paid the price last year, this year he’s still not great, and he’s not getting any younger. Monta was in the best position to take the PG spot when Baron left. Now, Curry (and maybe CJ?!?) are also in position to do that, and it certainly looks like Monta is taking to the “scorer/gunner with the ball in his hands a lot who can do some creating” role.

You have been DFiBrillated.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 14, 2009 12:05 PM PST up reply actions  

'cept Baron not so hot either

The W’s def got the best of years, which are behind him now

by joegiant on Nov 14, 2009 4:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Wow you're an absolute moron

When Ellis was on his game he had a mid range jumper that not even Kobe could beat. Ellis also was one of the best finishers at the rim. His problem is that he needs to get better defensively before he can become an elite player and he also needs to start hitting threes with a higher percentage to keep defenses off balance.

Ellis is unhappy because he takes a brunt of the blame for what happened last year. This year he isn’t the problem, it’s Don Nelson anyone who believes otherwise is just ignorant.

by Rocky63215 on Nov 14, 2009 8:33 PM PST up reply actions  

JumpSHot/Finishing - GOOD Passing PG - NOT GOOD

in a better balanced team, monta’s strengths would be better served as a 6th man, a la John Starks in NY.

For a starter he’s a square peg in a round hole. Not the mentality of a PG, not the size/strength of a SG.

by joegiant on Nov 15, 2009 9:53 PM PST up reply actions  

The “bulk down”, as in “down in Los Angeles playing for the Clippers” has had an impact. Monta’s particular game hasn’t lended itself to fewer break opportunities and the ball in his hands more often. Don’t interpret this to be a "we should have done everything and anything to keep Baron, but I do think that on the court no one misses him more than Monta.

by jae on Nov 14, 2009 9:50 AM PST reply actions  

Totally agree with this… Monta can’t start a break to himself very easily.

I like how hard he’s been trying at the point, and I imagine his results would be better on a team with a more disciplined offense. But I still can’t shake the feeling that Monta’s the guy you want others to pass to, not the guy you want passing to others. In an ideal world, he’s the bullet, not the gun.

by onlxn on Nov 14, 2009 1:55 PM PST up reply actions  

What is worng with Monta?

Nothing. 18/5/5 is pretty darn good. What game are you watching?

by crab dribble cocktail on Nov 14, 2009 9:53 AM PST reply actions  

The game where his scoring efficiency has taken a drastic hit.

He’s taking more shots and scoring less. This is generally a bad thing. What game are you watching?

You have been DFiBrillated.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 14, 2009 10:07 AM PST up reply actions  

Its a team game

and he is being forced to push the issue more right now. How many games have we played for you to make such an informed opinion? He looks every bit as quick as he ever was. The fact his his game looks more back to normal than it did last year and his shot will come around. I love how evryone is able to form such opinions like Curry can’t shoot and Whats worng with Monta? After 8 whole games? Lets revisit this in a month and we will see who is right.

by crab dribble cocktail on Nov 14, 2009 10:50 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree

that it’s unfair to compare Monta 07-08 with Monta 09-10 – without Baron and all to hide his ball-handling deficiencies. But I also think it’s fair to criticize his B-ball IQ and overall play – because it’s obvious he is not an elite talent as once thought. He’s pretty one-dimensional.

John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

by triplesix on Nov 14, 2009 11:12 AM PST up reply actions  

Look, as I suggested in the opening

There are many (potential) reasons for this funk, all of which are valid to a degree. In my opinion, this is an example of a situation (one of many) where “He needs to add bulk” may not apply. I, for one, think he’ll work his way out of this funk, and get his offense back in gear. You don’t seem to even acknowledge that he is in a funk. Instead, you feel more comfortable posting some numbers taken out of context and following it up with a snarky question, probably without reading much of what I wrote. Otherwise you would have seen:

Is he more the focus of the defensive attention

A possibility, certainly.
Now, I fully expect his jumper to come back within the next dozen games.
I hope it’s a learning curve, I hope he can get there, and I hope this is one of those “it gets worse before it gets better” things.
If Monta can play effectively with this added bulk, he can be a viable 2 guard beside Curry.

I have hope that he’ll get there, but I’m concerned with his current performance. You’re ignoring the current performance and/or blinded by the 18/5/5… which is nothing to sniff at, but he’s still being outperformed by a rookie.

You have been DFiBrillated.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 14, 2009 11:56 AM PST up reply actions  

how does jennings vs monta look so far?

by crab dribble cocktail on Nov 14, 2009 6:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Hummm...

First you erroneously criticize me for jumping to conclusions, sayign “Lets revisit this in a month and we will see who is right.” Then you criticize Jennings after a quarter? Yeah… sorry… I forgot. What happened after you wrote that?

You have been DFiBrillated.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 15, 2009 4:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Not that Monta didn't play well, but...

Still got outplayed by a rook. Who’d you rather have right now? Monta or Jennings. Frankly, given the rookie scale, it shouldn’t even be close…

You have been DFiBrillated.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 15, 2009 4:25 AM PST up reply actions  

how does jennings vs monta look so far?

I think crabdizzle just took this quote and hung himself with it… XD

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Nov 15, 2009 6:26 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

25ppg

is what he should be averaging. the diff between 18 and 25 is his jump shot

by joegiant on Nov 14, 2009 4:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Absolutely

If he can knock down that jumper like he started to, he’d be at 25ppg on 18 shots, which would be pretty awesome.

You have been DFiBrillated.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 15, 2009 4:25 AM PST up reply actions  

hes just not the same athlete

But he actually has played pretty well this season, his defense has improved although it still is below average and there are times when he drives and kicks and makes his teammates better. But when has he sneaked out and blown by everyone on the break and slammed one down this year like he did 2 years ago?? I haven’t seen it, and when he tries to blow by his defenders he ends up making contact instead of just getting passed them. Don’t forget he had knee surgery at the end of high school, and now he had the ankle surgery all on the same leg, which is his left leg which he jumps off of and he doesn’t get up close to as high as he used to which is why some of his drives get blocked.

by FeartheBeard4 on Nov 14, 2009 10:15 AM PST reply actions  

But when has he sneaked out and blown by everyone on the break and slammed one down this year like he did 2 years ago??

Well, without the beard, what’s the point? If Anthony Randolph is going to grab the rebound and insist on bringing the ball up to half court before passing…

But seriously, you need somebody who can get him the ball if he’s going to run out. We don’t have that right now.

Don’t forget he had knee surgery at the end of high school, and now he had the ankle surgery all on the same leg, which is his left leg which he jumps off of and he doesn’t get up close to as high as he used to which is why some of his drives get blocked.

He still got up there after the knee injury. But that is one thing that always used to make me say “Wow…”, and indeed I haven’t seen it. Again, having to lug around an extra 5-10 pounds around will impact the height on your jumps too.

You have been DFiBrillated.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 14, 2009 11:59 AM PST up reply actions  

6. Ink poisoning

the major ink addition may have exposed him to HCV – symptoms can include persistent fatigue and flu-like symptoms.

John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

by triplesix on Nov 14, 2009 11:02 AM PST reply actions   2 recs

All of the above

Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"

by dubzfan on Nov 14, 2009 11:55 AM PST reply actions  

sveTLe

LMAO, sorry im sure it was a typo
I been trying to get my sveltness back but age is a mofo.

First off Monta isn’t to happy right now so thats playing into it but Nellie has him trying to run the point which is not something he will ever be fully comfortable with. He has a scorers mentality without the handles or vision of a true point. He looks fine for what he’s being asked to do. It would be different if he only had to play the 2 but having to run point is gonna bring down his efficiency because he’s not a pg. Unfortunately Monta and Curry will never be a good enough befensive backcourt for us to be legit title contenders. Not because they can’t or don’t play D but it’s the lack of size that can’t be made up for. Iverson had Snow who was a defensive PG whose offense was a bonus. Curry or Monta will never have that defensive ability because they are offensive players. They’ll give the effort but it unfortunately won’t be enough. And remember when Iverson took Philly to the finals the east was weak. There were 2 other 50 win teams in the east while there were 7 in the west. The west has some very strong backcourts nowadays. You got Kobe and Fisher, Nash and JRich, Bdidy and Gordon, Kidd and Terry, Parker and Ginobli, Billups and Earl Smith III, Miller and Roy. We cant expect Curry and Monta to be able to guard them. They’ll get eatin alive.

by pre10d on Nov 14, 2009 12:08 PM PST reply actions  

My issue with Monta is his lack of willingness to do things. Just do them, Monta. Do the dang things.

Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.

by Naticus2 on Nov 14, 2009 12:11 PM PST reply actions  

Good question, good post… nice to talk about Monta on the court, rather than off. It does seem like he’s bulked up a bit, and that may indeed be slowing him down on offense. Also agree that it seems like it may be helping him on defense, and that it is thus a potentially worthwhile tradeoff, if he develops other moves to complement his drives.

I’d add another possible variable as to his struggles, which is the fact that he’s playing the point. He’s played it in spot minutes in previous seasons, of course, but there’s more playmaking weight on his shoulders than there has ever been before. And while Monta is doing a good job of trying to play the point, I do think it’s taken a toll on his own scoring efficiency.

One of Monta’s greatest attributes in ‘07-’08, in addition to his speed and shooting stroke, was his decisiveness. He had brilliantly quick instincts for finding an opening… before the other team even realized he was shooting, he was already at the hoop or nailing a jumper. That decisiveness isn’t there right now, because he’s scanning options for other guys, not just for himself. There seems to be more of a pause, however brief, before he makes decisions in the halfcourt. Will that pause disappear as he acclimates to the position, allowing him to pair his old scoring efficiency with improved playmaking? Hopefully. But it may be that he won’t again be the brilliant scorer he was two years ago until he’s absolved of all playmaking duties, by himself and his coach, and can just focusing on scoring again.

One more possibility, one I hesitate to bring up: it is possible that Monta had a fluky-good shooting year in ‘07-’08 that he might never equal again, no matter how much he weighs or what position he plays. He shot .545 on two-pointers that year… that’s a level of efficiency that very few guards ever reach, especially guards as small as Monta. Nash had a year shooting that well, Calderon did, Jason Terry’s gotten close to that level… but no NBA guard in recent years has consistently scored that well inside the arc. Monta could be good — really, really good — and still never shoot like that again. It may behoove us to temper our expectations a tiny bit.

by onlxn on Nov 14, 2009 1:52 PM PST reply actions  

to answer the question

1)monta was given a job he was not ready for.
and
2)Don nelson sucks at coaching

Monta Ellis will be a dominate guard in this league if he is put in the right team with the right scenario. When the Warriors had Baron Davis, Ellis was able to thrive and flourish.

by Jayd92009 on Nov 14, 2009 1:56 PM PST reply actions  

I am by no means an expert on the subject, so I’ll just offer up a possibility (that you can feel free to shut down).

Does adding muscle and strength change your jump shot? Do you have to adjust the power with which you shoot the ball? Cause that could be the reason his jump shot is not as money anymore. And if that’s the case, I would say to just give it time.

As far as the speed, I don’t know. I haven’t been able to watch too many Warriors games this year, and the ones I do watch his speed doesn’t seem that off, but I am watching blurry, lagging screens and can’t really tell. But I hope if he really did lose a step that it is just a temporary set back.

by belilaugh on Nov 14, 2009 4:51 PM PST reply actions  

The truth is Monta’s jump shot was never all that good.

In 07-08, he shot 43.77% on shots outside of 8 ft. (239 for 546).

his high FG% came from the fact that he had 1/3 of his points via the fast break.

by homer simpson on Nov 14, 2009 9:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Question

I suspect I know the answer, but not sure:

What is the shooting percentage for the league for shots outside 8ft?

Guys like Gilbert Arenas and Allen Iverson shoot ~43% on ALL shots, not just shot outside 8ft. And they’re considered good. Shooting 43% on jumpers, to me, sound like a very, very good percentage. Obviously, guys like Steve Nash and Anthony Morrow will skew your opinion because they shoot 3 pointers so well.

You have been DFiBrillated.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 15, 2009 4:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Does adding muscle and strength change your jump shot?

Of course as long as a shooter is continuing to shoot a high volume of shots over the long period of adding muscle and strength it should not be a problem. If a slasher like Monta added strength I’d expect it would not hurt his jumper as much as help him absorb the contact better when he’s finishing at the rim. My guess is the league is catching up to many of the players’ strengths on our team – perhaps Monta had more open looks in the past because he was getting played for the drive, and now teams are playing him more straight up? Similarly for Morrow & the rest of the young players who are now being played differently (some games Morrow’s defender never leaves him even to help in the paint for example) and our guys need to adjust both individually and collectively.

by hardcore on Nov 15, 2009 9:08 AM PST up reply actions  

i can tell you from experience and just by watching him.

it’s the injury. sure a bunch of other stuff is going on around him that don’t help, but it’s the injury. He’s not the same player. He’s hardly bulked up. Most of that is natural just maturing, and getting a little bigger is better. You lose some explosion when yeah you hurt yourself like he did, but mainly it’s just the being in a cast and having your ankle immobilized for such a long time.

by Agent Zero on Nov 14, 2009 5:35 PM PST reply actions  

Will it come back?

I’m not doubting your position at all, but if you’re speaking from experience as you say, will his explosion come back. Although, he’s definitely been working out. His neck and shoulders are much bigger, as are his arms. You try lugging around an extra 5 pounds and see what that does to your quickness…

You have been DFiBrillated.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 15, 2009 4:34 AM PST up reply actions  

He is a far superior athlete than me

and has more resources and experts at his disposal so i bet he could get nearly all of it back.

I was a good high school point guard. I had my injury sophomore year. Junior year went okay. Senior year, I played really well. I still didn’t feel as explosive though.

I bet monta will basically get all of it back at some point, but i don’t really believe in being able to return to 100% because you can always think how much better off you would have been if you didn’t jack your foot or ankle up and if you didn’t sit around in a cast or boot for months.

by Agent Zero on Nov 23, 2009 7:12 PM PST up reply actions  

also

the injury has mental affects too. Sometimes you compensate for or guard the injury, even if he’s over that, just the fact that he couldn’t play basketball for such a long time can mess with your head and change your game.

by Agent Zero on Nov 14, 2009 5:37 PM PST reply actions  

The only comment I have on Monta is he can’t dribble adequately with his left hand. I noticed this the first game of the season, and I wasn’t sure how big of an impact it was going to have…but it’s definitely limited his offensive options. Seriously, watch him play, he goes right every time because he can’t dribble left well enough to do much more than one dribble off a crossover with it.

by Missing Barry on Nov 15, 2009 1:06 PM PST reply actions  

The problem with Monta is Don Nelson

In the NBA, you’ve got to do more than just give the ball to one player and have him dribble around and beat his defender to score the ball time and time again. This only works in street ball. This doesn’t work for long in the NBA even if you have players like LeBron James on the court, as was displayed in the conference finals last year. Don Nelson has given up any sort of creativity or structure on offense so he can sit back and watch and hope the dubs have a good enough offensive game playing street ball to win.

by Throw up the Dub on Nov 15, 2009 2:26 PM PST reply actions  

He just needs to play off the ball more....

He still average 4 assists per game while with Baron. That was because he came into games looking to score once he found his groove scoring, passing became necessary because team started to lock down on him. As any player would in that situation, he would pass to the open man inside or out.

by Richboievans on Nov 15, 2009 3:46 PM PST reply actions  

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