RUMOR: Golden State Warriors Head Coach Don Nelson on his way out
by Atma Brother ONE on Nov 14, 2009 10:01 AM PST
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PrintIt amazes me how little love coach Don Nelson gets after coaching masterfully and overachieving with not 1, but 2 poorly constructed rosters (2006-2007 WE BELIEVE and 2007-2008 48 wins) by former GM Chris Mullin, should-be-former team president Robert Rowell, and the worst owner in all of sports Chris Cohan.
It amazes me how much vitriol is pointed at Nellie by the media AFTER a blowout win on the road in New York.
From all this hysteria you would think Nellie has been a loser his entire second tenure with the Warriors with the likes of LeBron James and Kobe Bryant.
After the jump we dissect CBS Sports Ken Berger's piece Nelson's abrasive style might have him on way out.
Yeltsin never recovered his popularity after a series of economic and political crises in Russia in the 1990s. The Yeltsin era was marked by widespread corruption, economic collapse, and enormous political and social problems. By the time he left office, Yeltsin had an approval rating of 2 percent by some estimates.
There's a key insuation here with this Boris Yeltsin comparison which seems to be curiously leveled at Nellie at large that he's corrupt. Corruption is a pretty serious charge. It still feels like (and maybe I'm wrong) that this all comes back to people's random fascination and continued excuses for failed GM Chris Mullin (by the way how many teams are lining up for his supposed grand services right now?). Geoff Lepper over at 48Minutes.net recently provided some much-needed background for the hysterically blown up and sensationalized Nellie-Mullin "drama":
NBA FanHouse (Matt Steinmetz): Don Nelson doesn't like dealing with the print media anymore. This is something that's been building for a long while, a byproduct of him getting blamed at the start of last season for the falling out that took place between the Warriors and Chris Mullin.
I have no proof of how much influence Nelson had in Mullin's twist-in-the-wind, slow-motion dismissal, but it's clear that Nelson has been stung by the fact that people in the Bay Area and national media believe he did help in pushing out Mullin.
(Sidebar for my personal thoughts: Nelson was less an active participant, and more a deliberate observer, standing on the sidelines while Mullin and Robert Rowell engaged in their blood feud - even as he knew he was the only guy who might be able to bring the two sides back together again. I've heard from folks close to Nelson that he was very upset Mullin didn't side with him during Nelson's post-WE BELIEVE holdout - which Nelson eventually lost to Rowell - and I think Nelson's silence during the Mullin-Rowell fight was his form of payback.)
Basically Nellie's buddy Mullin did nothing to help him out in his negotiations with the easily negotiable Rowell (just ask Stephen Jackson) after he saved the franchise back in 2007. So why is he supposed to go out of his way to help out Mullin when Rowell's looking to fire him (good dismissal, just probably for the wrong reasons from a guy who should have been fired as well). This is corrupt on Nellie's part? Don't think so.
By the way when was the last time you heard folks lobbying corruption charges against Mullin for not hooking his mentor and savior (both in his playing days and GM stint) Nellie with a much deserved pay increase or for straight up lying to Jason Richardson's face (supposedly his favorite player) when he said he wouldn't trade him a few days before unceremoniously dumping him to make this roster younger and rawer after the Warriors first playoff run in well over a decade?
After beating the Knicks 121-107 on Friday night, Nelson stands only 21 wins shy of becoming the NBA's all-time winningest coach. But his insistence on alienating and humiliating his best players -- which continued at Madison Square Garden even in victory -- could soon lead to a coaching change, a high-level coaching source told CBSSports.com.
Again Nellie got the win pretty easily. Who was cemented to his bench for whatever reason really doesn't matter. Nellie is public enemy #1 when the Warriors lose and when they win. That's a lose-lose situation that this Hall of Fame coach doesn't deserve.
With no realistic trade scenarios emerging for Stephen Jackson -- and with the team's other miserable star, Monta Ellis, wanting out, too --
It cracks me up how "Captain" Jack and Moped Ellis' tantrums are made out to be legitimate reasons to fire Nellie. Nellie may (hilariously) look like Boris Yeltsin after these losses as they joked on the CSN Bay Area post game show last night, but these two guys are straight out of this movie:
Someone explain to me why Jackson is miserable after Nellie saved his hoops career when no one would touch him and Rowell foolishly gave him an undeserved $36 million check? Someone explain to me why Ellis is miserable after Nellie found the perfect role for a undersized, speedy, defenseless 2-guard with limited handles and low hoops IQ, being handed the keys to this franchise, and despite nearly ruined his own career, did not have his contract rightfully and legally voided last season?
Nelson's last option to keep the team from blowing up already is under consideration. Nelson, 69, would assume a consultant role, with top assistant Keith Smart taking over as head coach.
"It could happen by next week," the source said.
....
Nothing is ever 100 percent with the Warriors; not even the players know who's making the decisions or whom they can trust in the organization, a second person familiar with the team's problems said. A third source said the timing of Smart's ascension to head coach is difficult to predict simply because of the person who'd be making that decision.
"Nellie would," the person said.
For everyone jumping at the thought of Coach Smart taking over here's some facts:
- Nellie's coaching record: 1312 wins (2nd all time), 1012 losses [Basketball Reference]
- Smart's coaching record: 9 wins, 31 losses [Basketball Reference]
- Over the past 30 years the best coach this franchise has had is... Don Nelson
- The Dirty Dozen: Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3
Thanks to Nellie, they'll do so with their two stars, Jackson and Ellis, coming off inexplicable 47- and 45-minute performances, respectively, against the Knicks.
So inexplicable that the Warriors WON? It never ceases to amaze me how many folks out there that think they know how to coach and manage a roster better than Nellie.
For good measure, he also embarrassed No. 7 overall pick Curry in the very building where he'd hoped to spend his NBA career. If Curry thought he might face some dysfunction if the Knicks had picked him at No. 8, these few months with Nelson have been quite the education.
For comparison's sake let's look at #7 pick Stephen Curry's minutes this season versus the two picks right before and after him:
Nelson had made a point of praising Curry during our conversation at the Warriors' morning shootaround. But even when he praises someone, he manages to insult someone else."He's going to be our future point guard for many, many years," Nelson said. "And I feel we'll build the team around him."
Funny, that's what the organization told Ellis, too. Oh, never mind.
Wait I thought Nellie was too busy humilating Curry by not giving him playing time? Now he's praising him, but taking a shot a Monta? Seems a little dubious to me.
The Warriors' revised plan -- Curry's 2:35 run Friday night, notwithstanding -- explains why one source familiar with the situation said Nelson has been actively looking to trade Ellis, too."He wants Monta out," the source said.
Folks who have been watching Ellis this season and last know that's not a bad thing (see What's wrong with Monta). It's abundantly clear right now that Mullin and Rowell's "master plan" to build around Ellis and Andris Biedrins and destroy WE BELIEVE was a very silly move. The Warriors should be looking to upgrade from Ellis.
Jackson said Friday he's not angry with Nelson, but rather with the fact that he was given the impression the Warriors would be "more of a veteran team" this season. Though Jackson didn't elaborate, a person familiar with the situation said his anger -- and Ellis' -- stems from a dinner meeting with Rowell at the end of last season in which the Warriors' president vowed to surround them with a playoff-caliber supporting cast.
This has to be the most hilarious part from the "Captain" and his "pupil". Now I would have loved to see the Warriors get older, smarter, and better on the court particularly with Amare Stoudemire (probably more so than anyone- I'm even on record as saying he'd quite possibly be a lower health risk than Biedrins this season which is so far true). BUT it's hilarious how 2 of the on-court "leaders" of this team have acted less and less "veteran" like with each passing day.
Nellie is not the problem. Cohan and Rowell are problems #1 and #2 and this flawed roster is problem #3. If Nellie steps down next week as rumored the Warriors might see a short little burst of enthusiasm from a raw, immature, and low IQ roster of too many me-first players a la Bob Lanier back in 1994 (though at least that roster had some more classy players). But guess what? It's all down hill after there. Don Nelson is the best head coach and even front office personnel Cohan and Rowell will ever luck into.
How do I know this?
Again, The Dirty Dozen: Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3
Also see: Polling GSoM: What exactly won't Monta Ellis do?
More thoughts from the GSoM community (folks who actually watch Warriors games)
-
What's wrong with Monta (Dubs fan in Boston)
-
CBS Berger Report: "Nelson will quit by next week!" (faetati)
- Back off Nellie and Jack: It's ROWELL, trick! (AR4)
- Would you be opposed to trading Ellis? (WarriorSth)
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Comments
The fact that we are 3-5
with all this drama is impressive. In addition to no center at all. Or winning a game with Corey Magette at the 5 spot? There are other teams like New Orleans and Utah that are somehow worse off with better players and less drama. Look around the league, there seems to be a lot of babies whining and team unrest. We can’t blame CP3 or D Wills problems on Nellie. Mike D’Antoni? Now thats one impressive coaching job. This league has issues East and West not just in our little kingdom.
by crab dribble cocktail on Nov 14, 2009 10:09 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Not Impressive
3-5 is not an impressive record at all when our wins are at home against Memphis (1-8), at home against Minnesota (1-9), and at NY (1-9). That’s a combined record of 3-26. If you can’t win against those teams, then you’re truly atrocious. Don’t forget that we also got blown out at home against the 3-7 Clippers and lost to a bad Kings team when they were on the end of a back to back. Our competition so far has been terrible, so I would not label our 3-5 “impressive.”
kings have won 4 in a row
they just be Houston last night. I would characterize them as a real bad team.
This is what I was afraid of
All the negative press/bickering leading Nellie to say “the hell with this joke of a franchise.” Just like the “Monta clash” – which was more of a child trying to incite an argument. I mean what the hell does “That’s why I’m not going to do it” mean anyway. Nelson constantly gets blame for having to babysit these children. He gets criticized for throwing his hands in the air and walking away from a tantruming Monta. It’s a no win situation for him. Bottom line on Curry is that he’s not playing well enough to warrant minutes – as evidenced by CJ playing much better than Curry has in any game this year.
Thanks ATMA for posting a view of the situation that most people around the Warriors don’t seem to see.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
by triplesix on Nov 14, 2009 10:30 AM PST reply actions 3 recs
I second this comment
I’ve been through a good part of the Dirty Dozen years (born 1988, so not all of it) and Don Nelson, no matter how bad he appears now, cannot be considered a below average coach. He still remains the best coach we’ve had in the past two decades with five playoff appearances with the Warriors (and nearly a 6th in 2008!). He can’t win without a proper general manager and Rowell making front office decisions – this is not his fault. Cohan owning the team isn’t his fault. Sure, he gets some blame for not being able to handle a group of players that hate everything with the organization, but should that be his sole blame?
I dread to see what would happen with a new coach. I just don’t see all the hype about Keith Smart. He went 9-31 as an interim coach for the woeful Cavaliers before LeBron (which, even in those circumstances, does not qualify as average) and learned from NBA coaching greats such as Mike Montgomery.
Good post ATMA, and great response triplesix.
"I never watched baseball on TV. It's slow and boring. I'm not a fan. Never was." - Jeff Kent
Well said.
However I disagree that Curry is sitting simply because he’s not playing well. I believe there is more going on than we realize and Nellie is really trying to protect Curry from Jack and Monta. Btw, I’m not sure why so many around here think that CJ can play better than Curry except maybe occasionally – I am Certain Nellie doesn’t think that at all, but probably made it seem like he does just to take some of the pressure off of Curry. It seemed to work. Probably Jack and Monta will figure out they’ve been manipulated again at some point and make a fuss: but what’s Nellie supposed to do if they keep acting so childishly?
If Bochy coached the Warriors Bengie Molina would start every game at PG.
by cybermaldonado on Nov 14, 2009 8:48 PM PST up reply actions
I still fail to see
how saying “he’s been our best coach” as an argument to keep Nelson. He’s had his moments here, but just saying Nelson has 1,000+ wins means jack when you actually watch the team. The players aren’t behind Nelson anymore. He looks like he could give a rats ass out there on the sideline, and he’s had multiple players turn on him in the locker room. Now granted a lot of franchises have that situation, but a lot of the players have legitimate gripes against Nellie.
You can’t tell me you enjoy seeing your favorite players on the bench while Jackson plays the whole game. You know—the guy with NO FUTURE with GSW. Give it up, Nelson had to go last year. He still needs to go.
And please stop saying there’s no coach that could work with this team. That’s a poor argument that you can’t back up. As far as i’m concerned crystal balls do not tell the future. Maybe I shouldn’t be confident that Cohan-Rowell can find a suitable replacement, their choices have borderlined on “WTF” lately. But I am sick of Nelson and his horrible rotations, lack of defensive effort teamwide, isolation and one-on-one based offense, double-standards, and lack of accountability. You really can’t see ANY reason to fire him? Really? Look closer.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
by kenntoe on Nov 14, 2009 10:43 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
"And please stop saying there’s no coach that could work with this team. That’s a poor argument that you can’t back up."
BUT ITS TRUE!!!! The Dubs don’t have the players to win!!
I’m not necessarily saying that we shouldn’t fire Don Nelson, but if I think that we should it would be because we might as well have a coach that gets along with the players if we’re gonna lose all season, not because there is any coach out there who would do better.
I would only like to see Nellie fired if he is replaced by a proven head coach (Not Kieth Smart), or if other players besides Jack and Monta really hate Nellie I guess we would have to fire him too.
I’m tempted to say that it seems like we should trade Monta, but unless we get something in return thats worth it, we shouldn’t. Remember that fellow Jamison whose put up allstar like numbers for years??? Does everyone remember what we traded him for? What would our team be like if we had him? Probably a lot better.
by freerandolph on Nov 14, 2009 10:53 AM PST up reply actions
re: don't have the players to win
that falls on nellie as well. he /had/ a gm who was acquiring guys that could play, and he undermined him by not playing them or not playing them at their natural positions. that’s all fine and good, as nellie is a keen basketball mind and does have a knack for exploiting matchups. but he can’t have it both ways. if he’s the power behind the gm throne (and does anyone really believe that it’s riley calling the shots?), he has to take the hit if they don’t have the players to compete.
as for keith smart, he hasn’t really shown that he’s anything special. but for someone who is to come to golden state, he either have to get a TON of money or cohan/rowell would have to be gone.
he /had/ a gm who was acquiring guys that could play, and he undermined him by not playing them or not playing them at their natural positions.
The first half of that statement is just plain false. The Warriors never acquired the talent to be a contender. The roster during the “We Believe” season was good enough to get to the second round and showed little hope of becoming much better than that. Trading an overpaid J-Rich for a young, talented PF was a good move, but it was a long term move. Al Harrington was simply not particularly good and he was traded for a terrible player in Jamal Crawford. The Warriors never had the players to make a real push in the West.
As far as the “undermining” of those players goes, he was given an unbalanced, undertalented roster to work with. If Al Harrington doesn’t want to play the 4, he should look around and realize that he was best option at that position and if he wanted playing time at small forward, he’d be waiting in line behind Jack, Maggs and Buike. The team was loaded at the wings and thin everywhere else. He played his best players. No need to apologize for that.
if he’s the power behind the gm throne (and does anyone really believe that it’s riley calling the shots?), he has to take the hit if they don’t have the players to compete.
Does he? Even if Riley is just a Nellie puppet (an unproven accusation to begin with), could Nelson really be expected to turn the mediocre roster from last year and make it into a playoff team this year? If he had been running the team for years, and I highly doubt he was making all the decisions in his latest stint here, then you could say that it’s his fault the roster isn’t good enough. After one summer, that’s a senseless statement.
as for keith smart, he hasn’t really shown that he’s anything special. but for someone who is to come to golden state, he either have to get a TON of money or cohan/rowell would have to be gone.
All the more reason to keep the proven coach.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
"The players aren’t behind Nelson anymore. He looks like he could give a rats ass out there on the sideline,"
this is about as good an argument as the one you are railing against.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
Fine.
Trade Monta and see how stupid of an idea that turns out to be.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
You really can’t see ANY reason to fire him? Really? Look closer.
He’s got a contract so firing him would cost money.
I doubt nellie would step down after getting this close to the record and I would be pissed at him if he did. I think having a coach who’s never won a title be the most winning coach in nba history would be a good statement on how much it really means.
No matter what happens with nellie this team is not gonna suddenly get better, it won’t happen till we get bigger and tougher. We can’t have our bigs arms falling off in practice or getting shoved out of the paint every play, and we can’t keep re-focusing on new plans everytime the wind changes direction. Building a winnner takes time and hard work not new kids and pr talk.
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 14, 2009 11:34 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Other than the “arms falling off,” implications, I agree with this post. This is the first time and almost 100% positive it’ll be the last time I rec a Skep comment.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
by Naticus2 on Nov 14, 2009 11:49 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
What the W's problems have in common...
I’m not as big a Nellie fan as others (his style of basketball is fun to watch and can prove very difficult for opponents, but ultimately it seems to fail against bigger, defensive-minded teams). But I agree he is getting more than his share of blame. The common thread I see in all of the Warriors’ problems is Robert Rowell. Any discussion of how this once proud franchise has wronged one of the best and smartest basketball markets in the country has to begin with 1) Chris Cohan and 1a) Robert Rowell.
That said, if Nelson leaving will improve the dysfunction, I’m fine with it. There are no potential championship banners hanging on that decision. However, that Robert Rowell is still employed is the greatest embarrassment to the W’s, and I’m of the opinion that his firing would be the best way to get on the right track (short of Cohan selling the team and Rowell getting fired as part of the process, of course).
Can't believe anyone would defend Nellie at this point
go ahead and put aside the blow ups from Jack and Monta, but there is no way anyone can watch a Warrior game and tell me Nellie is engaged right now. Just watch their timeouts, he barely speaks during them. It’s almost always Keith Smart talking with Nellie sitting there rocking back and forth looking like Rain Man.
So what’s the problem? We have Smart coaching, so Nellie isn’t the coach anyway. Why fire him? He’s guaranteed to receive money. He’s letting Smart learn along the way and take over the team, when Nellie does leave. Why the rush? Nellie is great at spotting talent and at times, is very good at dealing with players (He did save Jackson’s career, regardless of the falling out that has occurred). Just for Nellie’s ability to scout talent, I am in favor of having him stick around. I also think he’s a solid coach… easily the best we can get. His record proves it. No rain man or Yeltzin references can erase his record with us and around the league.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
The problem is...
you can’t have a head coach who only actually coaches when he feels like it. A head coach of an NBA team has to be fully invested at all times. He can’t just go in and out. Nellie was once a great coach, now he’s just cashing checks.
Sure buy in to the Warrior PR crap.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
what's the urgency in getting rid of Nellie now anyway?
It’s not like this team is going to turn it around and start contending. One more concession to crybaby players. Nice.
Mark my words…if this happens and Smart becomes the coach and then Jax and Monta start complaining about him everybody is going to call for Smart’s head. It’s a stupid cycle. It’s the eternal return to the oblivion of suckiness all over again.
by brewitt on Nov 14, 2009 11:56 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
If Nellie steps into a consulting role, Jax and Monta won’t be on the team to complain anymore.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Nov 14, 2009 1:35 PM PST up reply actions
Lol yeah. And if Nellie can’t control those two – good luck Keith Smart.
If Bochy coached the Warriors Bengie Molina would start every game at PG.
by cybermaldonado on Nov 14, 2009 8:38 PM PST up reply actions
If...
…Nelson was fired and an outsider brought in, there’s always a chance the roster could react enthusiastically and effusively and go on a run. It happens in pro sports all the time when a maligned coach gets the axe. It’s entirely possible that wouldn’t happenby replacing one familiar voice (Nelson) with another (Smart). If they went outside the organization, though, you never know. Which is more worthwhile than with Nelson, who at 69 and with a team that doesn’t seem motivated by him is as clear a definition for “lame-duck” as any I’ve seen.
Thank you
AB1 for taking the time to dissect this story. Most of the charges being leveled at Nelson right now are completely irrational, and the piling on of the media has been absurd.
This team was destroyed by the loss of Baron Davis, Monta’s moped, and the failure of Chris Mullin to get a veteran power forward in return for JRich or Pietrus. Every single miserable thing that has happened can be traced back to that.
Don Nelson’s record with good rosters is difficult to match. I pray he has the fortitude to stick this out, and that he’s still here when Biedrins and Turiaf are back, and Jackson and Ellis are gone.
by Feltbot on Nov 14, 2009 12:17 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
REC'D!
Especially this part:
“This team was destroyed by the loss of Baron Davis, Monta’s moped, and the failure of Chris Mullin to get a veteran power forward in return for JRich or Pietrus. Every single miserable thing that has happened can be traced back to that.”
Preach!
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
This team was destroyed by the loss of Baron Davis, Monta’s moped, and the failure of Chris Mullin to get a veteran power forward in return for JRich or Pietrus. Every single miserable thing that has happened can be traced back to that.
Some people have short memories.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Nov 14, 2009 3:57 PM PST up reply actions
Atma, You've got some serious blinders on.
You’re an excellent writer and a fantastic analyst of the W’s. And I probably agree with you about 90% of the time, but I think you’ve got the blinders on here.
Of course Nelson saved this franchise. Of course nobody else could’ve led them to We Believe. Of course it’s time for him to go.
The fact that he gave the Warriors and the fans one of our most treasured memories ever, doesn’t take away from the fact that he’s a moody, petulant, conniving dude with some serious problems handling young players and a ridiculous dog house in which he plants people for whatever strikes his fancy.
Dude is the man. Dude has got to go.
by chacabuco on Nov 14, 2009 12:25 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
any substance here?
I don’t think there is any substance to what you are saying. He’s moody, petulant and conniving and has problems with handling young players. That’s all??
I’ve heard all of these arguments before. It gets so old. Do you have anything of substance of why we should get rid of nellie, not just that you don’t like his personality? Who cares about his personality?
Uh..... The players don't like him and quit on him?
That’s kinda an issue…….
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
"I've heard all of these arguments before. Its gets so old."
Okay here’s a new take:
Don Nelson needs to step down because he has no tattoos.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
On Tattoos...
Tattos make you cool, hip, and smart. How can a coach relate to the players if he has no tattoos. I clearly have more respect for Monta now that he has more tats. Who wouldn’t?
I don’t have respect for myself because I have no tats.
Mo tats, Mo respect. The only thing is for the warriors….Mo tats, mo problems.
That’s it! If Nelson get’s a big old tattoo of either 2-pac or Dr. Dre (or if he prefers a white guy M&M) he will definitely command the respect of the team and they will win a championship. He’ll just be one of the boys.
If Nelson get’s a big old tattoo of either 2-pac or Dr. Dre (or if he prefers a white guy M&M) he will definitely command the respect of the team
Nellie would probably go for a big Coors lite tat on his belly.
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 15, 2009 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
Who cares about his personality?
The players who have to put up with him for 6 months of their life per year. If players don’t feel respected they won’t stay here. Look at the way he’s jerked Montay around? Look at the way they miss used TMNT? Look at Boom, he had the choice of resigning or not and nellie’s benching him in a critical game felt like a diss so he moved on? look at the way they lied to Jrich?Look at the way they ran off Cwebb? It’s a constant trail of disputes with the only constant participant nellie being nellie.
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 15, 2009 3:25 PM PST up reply actions
I agree with you!
Nellie makes his young player lose their confidence in themselves. A case in point is Stephen
Curry. He was supposed to be the best shooting guard in college. Now he only makes 11 or so
unlike Ty Lawson, Tyreke Evans and that guy who did not go to college but went to Europe,
Jennings. They all surpass him offensively, thanks to Coach Nelson
I love Nellie, but I had enough.
When I say love, I mean old school Run TMC love, the kind that will probably last forever.
But, I started really souring on Nellie after he and his cohorts really stabbed Mullin in the back. I think something was posted about Yeltsin or some other Russian dictator above. I think that’s very apropos towards the Soviet style coup that was launched to remove Mullin.
Still, I love Nellie. I just don’t feel he is good for the Warriors any longer. I hope I’m wrong.
If Bochy coached the Warriors Bengie Molina would start every game at PG.
I changed my mind
I did some soul searching after writing that and realized that I have to trust Nellie and give him the benefit of the doubt. There are a lot of things wrong with the organization, but I think Nellie is still fighting to get the team better; for the fans, for the old times sake, and just because it’s what he does.
I think this also means that I have to side against Monta and Jack because I think there is a huge rift between the two sides.
If Bochy coached the Warriors Bengie Molina would start every game at PG.
by cybermaldonado on Nov 14, 2009 8:32 PM PST up reply actions
Defending Nellie is beyond ridiculous right now
It’s like arguing that the sky is green or that gravity makes objects fall upwards. He’s drunk, he’s bitter, he doesn’t care, he’s starting Mikki Moore over Anthony Randolph. FIRE HIM.
ES
Cohan and Rowell are problems #1 and #2 and this flawed roster is problem #3.
The interesting thing is that with Nelson stepping down, #3 might possibly be fixed. If Nelson becomes a consultant, then Jack and Ellis are probably gone. Depending on what we get back for them, the flawed roster might be a bit less flawed….
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Nov 14, 2009 1:34 PM PST reply actions
Yes, thank you for reminding me of the hopelessness that is being a Warriors fan. We could hire any coach, but it wouldn’t matter because we still have the same owner. Cohan probably loves hearing us trash Nellie because it takes heat off of the real villain who is him.
If Bochy coached the Warriors Bengie Molina would start every game at PG.
by cybermaldonado on Nov 14, 2009 1:39 PM PST up reply actions
Problems...
#1-Rowell
#2-Cohan
#3-Stephen Jackson
#4-Don Nelson
Fix all of those problems and I guarantee you we will be a play-off bound team.
by Cpt. Jack in the Box on Nov 14, 2009 2:01 PM PST reply actions
Why’s everyone mad at Jackson and Ellis? Sure they come off as crybabies and selfish jerks. But their compliant do have some merit, all these years Cohan never brother to put a decent product on the court. I really believe we luck out on the we believe team and instead of building upon the success they decided to scrap the team to rebuild. Instead of is a great time out their slogan should be thank god warriors fans are navie (myself include). As for Nellie he might be a good HC but he plays too much mind game with players to a point where no player can trust him so he need to go. Unless Cohan change his way it wouldn’t make a different even if we change HC and trade away Jackson and Ellis because eventually the young players like Curry and Morrow will become today’s Jackson and Ellis.
There are ways to determine if a team is well-coached beyond W-L record
A well-coached team is consistent. They come out with good energy in almost all of their games. Maybe they struggle on the occasional second half of a back-to-back, but you know what kind of energy and intensity they’re going to bring to the floor long before the opening tip.
Players rarely quit on a well-coached team. Sure, there’s the occasional malcontent, or the player who wants to be “the man” but for the most part, players are happy to make sacrifices for the team because they know that if the team wins, they all look good, and they trust the coach to get them there.
On a well-coached team, players know their roles, and, while some players may want more, they accept them because they recognize those roles are for the good of the team. The players know what is expected of them, and understand when their minutes move around a lot for the benefit of the team.
On a well-coached team, the players consistently execute the game plan. They run the offense the coach has installed, and don’t start getting all me-first.
Well-coached teams give effort on defense. Every game.
A well-coached team handles adversity well. If the shots aren’t falling, if a game starts poorly, they find a way to put it together. They stick to the game plan. Players find ways to contribute when their shot isn’t falling.
The current Warriors fail on ALL of these metrics. If the problem was one or two players – if it was just Al Harrington, if it was just Stephen Jackson, if it was just Baron Davis, you could say, “hey, that guy, that guy’s a cancer.” But it’s the vast majority of our roster. It doesn’t matter who we ship out, who we ship in, we have a lot of the same problems.
There are plenty of times when I thought the Warriors under Nelson were well-coached. The last year we made the playoffs, the Warriors passed ALL of those metrics. The following season, they started to shift … and the season after that, things fell apart.
Getting excited about a blow-out win over a terrible team, acting like our record means something when we have had a pancake schedule so far, those are not meaningful indicators of the quality of coaching we are currently receiving from Nellie.
But they sure as h
by Ronaldinho on Nov 14, 2009 7:30 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
The roster aint the problem
Flawed roster? How does the roster matter when the coach is going to play 4 guards at all times no matter who is on the roster?
By the way when was the last time you heard folks lobbying corruption charges against Mullin for not hooking his mentor and savior (both in his playing days and GM stint) Nellie with a much deserved pay increase or for straight up lying to Jason Richardson’s face (supposedly his favorite player) when he said he wouldn’t trade him a few days before unceremoniously dumping him to make this roster younger and rawer after the Warriors first playoff run in well over a decade?
Atma, this raises a question I’ve had… what is your baseline belief on this issue? It seems like you feel that this does constitute inappropriate behavior on Mullin’s part, because he lied. Are you therefore willing to publicly chastise Don Nelson for the lies he has told? If you dislike Mullin for it, you must dislike Nelson for it as well, right. So whats your take?
Sorry to double up...
…but I forgot to mention- I can’t tell if by “folks who actually watch Warriors games” you’re implying GSOM as a whole, or those who share your perspective on Nelson. If the latter is true, while I respect that this is in essence your domain, it’s a huge fanbase with a wildly diverse array of opinions that patronize this website. I for one am here in good faith, and rest assured, I watch every game, which is one of the reasons this argument calls up so much passion on my part.
Is this writer on Nellie's payroll?
What a joke this entire article is. How this guy can defend a snake like Nelson is beyond me. You know how he won all those games? He’s been coaching for decades; its not that impressive. He’s never even been to a finals. Don Nelson has a lengthy track record, far more than any other coach I can remember, of alienating his players. He’s been labeled a “Confidence Assassin” by Troy Murphy, who doesn’t exactly fit the profile of a low-IQ thug player. Atma, keep posting this misinformed and myopic drivel, and subsequently, enjoying the pathetic mess Nelson leaves in his wake. Maybe you’d be able to see what is going on if your eyes weren’t so close to Nelson’s fat ass.
Nelson's time is lonnnngggg past
It’s not just about Jackson and Monta. It’s about 20 years of alienating players by acting like and ass. No matter what kind of “brilliant tactician” he may be, Nelson zeroes out his value to any team by making his players hate coming to work.
by formerlythecity on Nov 15, 2009 5:46 PM PST reply actions
Dude it's about Randolph
As in, the guy Team USA wants is playing behind Mikki Moore. This is insane, it is inexplicable (unless you’re using terms like ‘drunk,’ or ‘bitter’), and it is indefensible. Nellie needs to go.
ES
+1
if we lose randolph cuz nellie inexplicably decides that he’s not “ready” to play…. ahhh what use is it, this franchise is a joke
Horrible take Atma Bro # 1
We’re usually in agreement, but you are so wrong about Nelson. Bottom line. He hasn’t won a championship nor gotten teams to the playoffs too many times for a coach with so many wins. That tells you something is wrong right there.
Another thing is Nelson does not develop his players. When was the last time our players made the rookie game or sophomore game? It has been too few and far in-between for a team with such a lousy record and chance to get good players which you don’t think we have.
Furthermore, Nelson has worn out his welcome at every stop he’s been. He did so the last time he was here or did you forget he was FIRED?!!!?!!! I’d like to see Nelson retire this time as clearly his heart is not into coaching the Warriors. If not, I’d like to see Cohan fire Nelson’s fat dumb bastard *ss before he gets the wins record. Better yet, I’d like to see Nelson take a demotion and end up being a consultant from Maui so he can’t take another head coaching job just to get his stupid and fake wins record. Mwahahahahaha.
As for the “bad” Warrior players, you can see that the Warrior players do better once they leave the organization. The Warriors have become the farm system for rest of the NBA again. Most recent examples are: Baron Davis, Al Harrington, Jamal Crawford, Marco Belinelli and Stephen Jackson. If Monta goes, then he may be the next ex-Warrior to star on another team. Yeah, it’s all our “poor” players’ fault all right.
"Go ahead. Make my day."
Why not Nellie
The previous Sacto coach was fired early in the season and so was Byron Scott who
were good coaches though not historically as Nellie. There is a saying in basketball that I
paraphrase: You are just as good as your last jumpshot. Nellie’s coaching is just as
good as his current team’s performance. They should let him go.
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