Build the team around Monta!
by tafkasam on Nov 16, 2009 10:59 AM PST
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The Captain Jack era is finally over and if it wasn't already declared "We Believe" is officially 100% in the coffin. Sadly, as Warriors fan we have come used to the concept of "re-building" and its time to once again, go down that path.
When I look at our roster, there is talent. Monta, Steph Curry, Anthony Randolph, Andris Biedrins are all capable NBA starters with the first three possessing "star potential" (or at least the perception around the league is such). Anthony Morrow, Keleena Azuibuike. Ronnie Turiaf are also fairly prices role players I'm sure any team would love to have. Throw in Corey Maggette (who may possess an awful contract) who when healthy is a productive veteran at what he does (score, score, score and buy pf changs) and Brandan Wright (a bit of an enigma, but only 22 has the tools to be a productive NBA player.
The problem is, this roster is poorly formed. There are too many similar players, and we're lacking specific characteristics (anyone who can defend, rebound and size inside). what needs to be done is a massive reshaping of the roster. Moves need to be made to build a cohesive team, not jut a collection of good individuals who can't play winning basketball together.
For me the most glaring decision that needs to be made is Monta or Curry? We will never be able to start both and be a playoff team (unless we somehow get Dwight Howard and Kevin Garnett inside). More so, both players need the ball in there hands, and as much as Don Nelson may disagree, there is only one ball. For me the decision is simple, build around Monta, trade curry, and here is why:
via www.nba.com
First off lets look at the non-basketball reasons. Monta has signed a long term contract with the club at a reason price. He had 5 years/55 mil remaining, barring another Jack situation (a risk we have to take with any player) he can't leave. Secondly, because of the moped, he's damaged his reputation around the league. We will not get equal talent for him today, its that simple. Stephen Curry on the other hand, is a wide-eyed rookie many teams love. He's shown some good things, and with the Warriors in turmoil his value may actually be higher (lack of defense is of course Don Nelsons fault, not Curry's). Curry also says all the right things and is very marketable.
Now getting to basketball. No one will paint Monta as a true PG, but he is a playmaker. He is a player like kobe, Broy etc. who NEEDS the ball in his hands, in critical moments (I'm not saying he's close to there level but I think you follow). His shooting percentage is rising. It may never be 53% again (well it certainly won't be until he's surrounded with enough talent so teams don't 100% key on him). He's shown he can penetrate, and hit open shooters on the outside. At 24, he will only get better (as he's been plying PG for what 9 games?) If we surround him with wing players who can help move the ball, ease the tension, I think we'll be fine. My point is, he'll never be Chris Paul or Jason Kidd, so why try to run that type of offense with him? Put him in a ball movement offense.
Curry has alot of things going for him, but simply put, Monta has proven he can play in the NBA, is only about 2.5 years older than Curry (he's hardly old), and Monta has the required athleticism to elevate in this league, something curry doesn't.
Finally Monta is respected among players in the NBA. And as silly as it sounds, we won't get a better player in free agency if we just salary dumped him. Warriors have an awful reputation. They need to build something, starting organically, with some trades, before free agents decide they will take an MLE here over LA, San Antonio or somehwere else.
Why not try and trade Curry to NYC for Gallinari (it's been mentioned by a few). I'd even be willing to pick up Jared Jefferies, if it was necessary. We know how much the Knicks wanted Curry. We also know how much Lebron likes curry.
Infact don't even focus on trades. but this team needs a direction. And I'm willing to say, lets build around Monta, put complementary pieces in place around him and see what happens. Or we can run out CJ, Monta, Curry, Raja Bell and Maggette and enjoy a 22 win season
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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hell NYC might do
Eddie Curry + Gallinari 4 Maggette + Curry….
Pro for us:
Curry expires next summer (2011)
Pro for NYC: It’ll save them 2.7 mil in cap room for 2010 summer… i’m sure they could care less about Maggette dragging them into luxury tax. I’d hate it for a year but it might be worth it!
Draft a 3 in June.
Can play Turiaf at the 4 behind Randolph for the rest of this season.
We cannot build around Monta
and Curry at the same time. Our two best on ball defenders in Jackson and Buike are gone. AR is still learning to foul less, but will be one of the best on the team. Beans is not a good on ball defender, but is good from the weakside and rebounds.
We’re going to allow 120 points a game from this point on.
One of the few to have appreciated Cap'n Jax. Do well in NC, get that 8th seed!
Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!
Well, I haven’t seen Bell play in a while, and I’m sure he isn’t nearly as good as he used to be (that tends to happen to old guys), but I think he just instantly became our best healthy defender…
by Missing Barry on Nov 16, 2009 11:33 AM PST up reply actions
We can build around Monta...
We agree to disagree. Curry and Monta can play together. Monta is better at the 2 than the 1, and Curry can play the 1 very well.
he’s going to be trouble for kobe when LA comes to town.
"Lisa, Vampires are make-believe, like elves, gremlins, and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
"Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa?" - Bart Simpson
"Make crime pay. Become a Lawyer." - Will Rogers.
How many times do we play the Lakers a year? We’re going to be in trouble when Dwight Howard comes to town, too. That doesn’t mean Biedrins isn’t a good C. Not many teams have a Kobe Bryant. Even the ones that do, if their SF isn’t much of an offensive or post up threat, easily allows us to move our 3 onto Kobe and Monta/Curry onto the 3. There are ways to solve the problem, it doesn’t have to be a big detriment.
by Missing Barry on Nov 16, 2009 6:20 PM PST up reply actions
disagree
I don’t think we can even make the 8th seed with that backcourt. Defensively it wouldn’t be bad. It would be the WORST in the NBA. It’s 1 thing if they undersized but aggressive defenders like delonte west/mo wiliams are. Monta/Curry, neither will be a good defender, at best they can be adequate but together, whenever a half decent SG comes to down, they will murder us more than normal. Kobe, Broy, Manu, etc. etc. these guys beat up legitimate defenders, what are they gonna do when 6-3 monta is gaurding them?
Second for those arguing barbosa/nash? Thats not there starting backcourt. Barbosa is an energy guy, who when hot will play extended minutes (keep in mind he’s also a bigger better defender). We are projecting Curry/Monta as a long term backcourt and it simply won’t work.
Even when we BARELY made playoffs with we believe team, we atleast had right size and played some defense. It’s literall impossible to make playoffs as such an awful defensive teams.
I really think you’re coming to conclusions too quickly on this. Who’s to say neither of them will ever ge good defenders? Who’s to say most SG’s are going to be big in the near future, what if we’re playing as many Gilbert’s as Kobe’s? Plus, why does Monta or Curry have to guard a good 2, anyways? Let our other wing guard him and Monta will take the 3. I’m not too worried about what a Nicolas Batum or Martell Webster is going to do.
More than half the teams in the NBA make the playoffs. Being an 8th seed is not an impressive feat, and not that difficult to do. As I’ve laid out elsewhere, there are lots of ways to make this work. Any disadvantage we have defensively gives us an advantage on offense. It may not be as great but it offsets some of the disadvantage. We can have one of them guard the other teams weaker wing – not every 3 is a good offensive player or has a post up game. We can minimize Monta and Curry’s time together on the court – as you pointed out, Nash/Barbosa don’t primarily play together (though they definitely do at times), Curry and Monta don’t have to always play together, either. Barbosa is listed at 6-3 176, by the way (using B-R). Ellis? 6-3 175.
The point is there are lots of possible solutions, it might take some creativity, vision, and out of the box thinking, but then again, maybe not. Maybe the two of them end up so talented it more than offsets a size disadvantage. Coming to conclusions too quickly or limiting your scope of what’s possible, though, might just cause us to miss out on a good thing. Will that duo make the playoffs together? I don’t know, but I think it’s foolish to rule it out. It is not literally impossible.
by Missing Barry on Nov 16, 2009 9:57 PM PST up reply actions
Being an 8th seed is not an impressive feat, and not that difficult to do
you’d think so… but not for the warriors.
Look I’m not saying trade curry for any stiff over 6-5. I’m saying if we have opportunity to trade him for a wing player w/ good ballhandling passing skills, i think it could benfit our team. And I think Monta is the superior talent, our BEST talent (Sorry Randolph, but he’s insanely raw and while he could be something special I wonder ….) Wh not build a team which compliments him.
I am in no way saying trade talent for less talent though. IMO Gallinari is more talented than Curry. IF we could get him for curry, i’d jump it. Even w/ eddie curry attached
btw, barbosa is listed at 203 lbs on espn.com which is where i went off of.
I think we mostly agree on things, and I’m not trying to say Curry/Monta is optimal, it certainly has weaknesses, there’s definitely a reasonable argument to change our roster construction at some point, I just don’t want to say it’s going to make up some horrible awful backcourt that can’t win already. Maybe they can’t win a championship, but making the playoffs is certainly a possibility (in the future, of course). Overall, my thoughts are right now we need to give our young guys 1-2 years to play and develop and find out which ones make up a core of 3-4 players for our future, and build around them. If that means shipping out someone like Curry (or someone else that we don’t deem part of this core) to try to bring in a superstar to go along with a couple of these core pieces, I’m on board. Our core can’t be like 7 decent but not that good players, though, so at some point some pieces need to be moved to try to bring in a difference maker.
by Missing Barry on Nov 17, 2009 11:03 AM PST up reply actions
Trade Monta to Chicago for Hinrich
Straight-up. We need smart basketball players who play defense. Although Hinrich is undersized at the 2, he can defend 2’s pretty well. Him and Curry is a very smart backcourt. Chicago needs scoring (3rd worst in NBA) and need a player to replace Ben Gordon.
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
Hinrich?
Really? I dont think this helps the warriors at all. Monta has much more value than that and that is not me being a warriors homer.
by Oracle Junkie on Nov 16, 2009 11:35 AM PST up reply actions
LOL
worst trade I have ever heard.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkGSW on Nov 16, 2009 11:35 AM PST up reply actions
Nope Im still bitter
About Sprewell for Starks? All Sprewell did is what all of us warrior fans wanted to do
by Oracle Junkie on Nov 16, 2009 11:36 AM PST up reply actions
hahahaha true
but that is the worst Ellis trade I have heard, how bout that :)
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkGSW on Nov 16, 2009 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
can't say that was a bad trade
we had zero choice, lol
+1
Without a doubt.
If we’re going to trade monta, i want expirings this summer. We might as well go after Lebron, haha. After all we have curry. And a pretty large market. I could see it. Please. Imagine Kobe and Lebron in the same state. The rivalry would make stern wet himself. Could you imagine?
If we’re going to trade monta, i want expirings this summer.
I advocate making a smart trade, if there’s going to be one, involving Monta, but you also can’t be greedy.
I just threw out Hinrich because he was in discussions in the off-season and he’s a player that stepped up defensively in the post-season against the Celtics. I think you guys are undervaluing him and also overvaluing Monta.
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Nov 16, 2009 11:57 AM PST up reply actions
Still
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
I understand, I really do.
Just looking ahead and thinking of stuff. No harm in that, right?
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Nov 16, 2009 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
Monta for Hinrich
Well, consider that Monta may not be happy here and may start to cause Sjax like distractions (probably not on the same level, but we saw how he can say destructive things like he did in pre-season re: Curry).
Consider Monta’s now our highest paid player. He’s an awful defender, sorry. He’s an amazing offensive player, but he doesn’t like to play with Curry. “Can’t do it.” So he’s already given up on that idea.
He’s a volume shooter. But efficient. Do we really need that? The Warriors need smart team-oriented basketball players. Monta has not shown me one thing that makes the team better.
Say what you will about this being the worst trade proposal ever, but you’d shed an extra year of 11M.
I think the team would be better without Monta. Don’t get me wrong, I love Monta, but don’t think he’s what the team needs.
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Nov 16, 2009 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
lol
nothing like trading a guy w/ all star talent for a good role playeR!
Can we really even call Hinrich a good role player? More like an average role player…
by Missing Barry on Nov 16, 2009 11:41 AM PST up reply actions
Cmon, he's good
good defender, good passer, good shooter. Has learned to curve down overplaying. But for his contract you do expect a wee bit more.
My own definition of role player is pretty much everyone that isn’t one of the top 2-3 players on the team. An average role player would mean a solid 6-7th man, at least to me…I’d say that’s a pretty fair assessment of Hinrich?
by Missing Barry on Nov 16, 2009 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
I agree
My own definition of role player is pretty much everyone that isn’t one of the top 2-3 players on the team. An average role player would mean a solid 6-7th man, at least to me…I’d say that’s a pretty fair assessment of Hinrich?
But Monta, being the top player on the team, still doesn’t help the team, IMO. The one good thing the Warriors do is score, but there’s too many gaping holes in the way the team is constructed and the way the team plays that Monta’s contributions are moot. Why not get a player in here that will fill a void (defense, unselfishness, less salary committed, etc) without creating a new one (i.e. we have plenty of scorers, just not an efficient way to get them the ball).
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Nov 16, 2009 12:23 PM PST up reply actions
Trading talent for lesser talent isn’t a good way to build a team. Maybe the pieces of this team don’t fit together, you certainly have a reasonable argument along those lines – the solution, though, is not to rid ourselves of one of our best players, but rather find the complementary pieces to fill what he lacks. Instead of seeing Monta’s strengths/weaknesses as a problem, that he’s more offensive than defensive and other players we have already can do that – we should look to replace the other players with guys that can help improve on Mona’s weaknesses and complement his strengths.
The thing is, we’re still in the stages where we’re trying to establish our core for the future. We know Monta is a good player, we know Biedrins is a good player. There’s room for them to improve, but we don’t know if they will or not. Randolph and Curry have potential, Wright has potential but seems like he’s now a legitimate injury concern (others have said his injury will never fully heal and will always be a risk), some people think Morrow does (I am not one of those people)…once we figure out which ones make up our core, then we can start filling around them to improve on the areas they don’t fill. Role players are interchangeable, and it’s easier to find a couple of defenders so Monta dosen’t have to do as much than to try to replace Monta’s talent with lesser players.
by Missing Barry on Nov 16, 2009 12:56 PM PST up reply actions
yeah with jack gone...
And buike out we have lost our two best man to man defenders. So to be real, small ball actually might be our ONLY option. We’re not going to out defend anybody in this league. We already were the worst defensive team. We might as well out score everybody and hope to pull out a win here or there. But this season is already in the tank. Unless jacksons departure magically cures all chemistry issues and this team starts playing unselfish basketball (highly unlikely) then were looking at a lottery pick. As logic defying as it may seem, our best line up at this point might actually be Monta, Curry, Bell, Randolph, and Beans.
We would shoot probably 15 threes a game, and would have the highest fast break points in the league, and it’ll be entertaining as hell. For real though, this season is over.
John Wall to the bay 2010! Chris Bosh to the Bay 2010!
yessss
john wall and chris bosh!
Wall
Ellis
AR
Wright
Bosh
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkGSW on Nov 16, 2009 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
OR dump Biedrins or ellis,
so that we could get bosh.
Curry
Wall
KAZ
AR
Bosh
BOSH WONT SIGN HERE
lets be honest… even if we clear cap room…
miami w/ dwade? golden state w/ anthony morrow?
Chicago w/ drose? golden state with Robert Rowell?
Why not?
We have the money. We have the market. We have the scenery.
Yeah i know we’re never going to get a big name. We blow.
Florida taxes are ALOT lower… and you’re really telling me south beach with dwayne wade is not miles more attractive to bay area?
To us bay area is best place in US. to those raised outside california it is viewed kind of as crazyland
Very true
I live in socal now, and people think its like montana or something. So funny to me.
But i really need to tell myself we could sign a big name this summer just to get myself through all the nonesense that happens here.
I think we can once atmosphere changes here...
mount a playoff threat. Have some talent etc.
Thats y i’m saying what if we did curry/gallinari 4 maggette/curry.
next year we’d role out.
monta
morrow
galinari
randolph
biedrins
(who knows who lottery pick will be… monta will improve, randolph will improve, gallianari. Thats 3 awesome young players. Then boom…. radmonovic (6.9 mil) + E-curry (11.2 mil) + Buike (3.2mil ) off books…. 21 mil…. hello free agents!
highlighting 2011 class are...
carmelo, horford, p.gasol, tony parker, kirilenko, caron butler and YI jianlan!…
but really where it comes in handy is trading, someone unhappy w/ team wanting to blow it up. Warriors got free contracts for you!
good stuff in general
but after next season Kidd will be as washed up as Fisher is now!
This would be beautiful
But it aint ever going to happen, and with Bosh on the team I would probally run Randolph at the five. Maybe the Raptors get desperate and do something like Curry and Beidrins for Bosh.
by Oracle Junkie on Nov 16, 2009 11:41 AM PST up reply actions
Not that unrealistic
And worst case scenario we have a grip of money next summer if Bosh doesn’t resign. Enough to sign a big big name. And who knows, we might resign bosh.
Overall I like the post, agree with most of your points. Two points I disagree with (note that I only comment on things I disagree with):
For me the most glaring decision that needs to be made is Monta or Curry? We will never be able to start both and be a playoff team
Now, there are certainly some weaknesses to Monta/Curry, but not a playoff team is pretty far. Nash and Barbosa play together at times. The league seems to be trending in a smaller combo guard direction. Any disadvantage we have on defense gets at least somewhat offset by an advantage on offense. There are reasons this doesn’t have to be a complete disaster and can be effective at times. We can also let them get a bunch of minutes seperately – if Monta is playing 30 mintues a game, that’s 18 minutes Curry can play without him on the floor, so Curry can play 30 mintues, too, with only 40% of those coming next to Monta.
He is a player like kobe, Broy etc. who NEEDS the ball in his hands
I strongly, strongly disagree with this. Monta does seem to be trying to do more with the ball this year than in the past, but he’s shown in the past he can be incredibly effective without the ball in his hands. He rarely had the ball in his hands to try to create offense when Davis was around, and he still averaged over 19 points per 36. He doesn’t need the ball in his hands to be effective.
Both good points
I should have written more on fact I Think Curry as a trade asset outweighs Curry as a player on this team for the first point. Also it should be pointed out Barbosa is a much better defender than both the a fore mentioned Warriors, and bigger (6-4, over 200lbs).
As for #2. That’s true, but should of getting Jason Kidd or someone , defensively monta/Curry is just too lightweight, and will be for a few years
Every Year is a rebuilding year for the Warriors
by justinleagueheroes on Nov 16, 2009 12:22 PM PST reply actions
Every Year is a rebuilding year for the Warriors
This seems to be a successful business model for them.
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Nov 16, 2009 12:25 PM PST up reply actions
I'd love a move like this
even more if we could swap Maggette for Curry (altho the cap doesnt really work with it, maybe if we added Bell?)
I’m a big Gallinari fan, and while Curry has actually looked better than I thought, I don’t think he’s ever going to be as effective a player as Monta and his value is probably at its apex
No Clue Or Plan
When you don’t have any plan or clue what the hell you are doing, then you have Cohan and Rowell..Its been obvious with Cohan from day one, that he never had a definite plan for what he wanted from this team and its been going on now for almost two decades with no end in sight, very frustrating..
Why do people buy season tickets and go to the games and line Cohan’s pockets with money??
There is a definite plan....
SELL TICKETS
and thats the problem. They’ve already marketed Curry as the savior. Why not? He’s well known and a really likeable guy who can do some exciting stuff. Problem is he is probably one of the worst players in draft to compliment monta. I was dying for Harden or maybe Tyreke. (granted we never got the shot)…. but if we can turn Curry into a viable peice with same amount of upside but better fit….
why wouldn’t we?! I am always opposed to drafting for “need.” But its a GM’s job to put a roster that can play together. I like Riley, and he’s in a damn hard situation with all the inheritied problems and contracts…. I hope he can do it
Cohan and rowells plan is
1. Money
2. Marketing
3. Winner
I understand economics, but the problem is they are more concerned with selling tickets than putting a winner on floor which will sell itself. Which is why we MUST play exciting basketball over winning basketball (I mean feasibly you can have both, but if you had to choose, the obvious choice is winning to being loveable losers)
Wow....
People are so quick to turn on Monta. The guy was asked to play point guard this year he and he really hasn’t since the arrival of Curry and people are so quick to turn on him.
For some reason, I still see people blaming him for last years disaster.
This if funny, just funny……
All time new low for me as a Warriors fan of 15 years after hearing what monta said about jacksons departure and his role on the team. I almost don’t want to cheer for the team now. The suns are more warriors then the warriors are right now .j-rich will to me always be the all time greatest warrior in my opinion since i started following themhe loved wearing the Jersey too bad we traded him away so we could save cap room for monta
next year
1. new jerseys = new attitude. assuming everything goes through with us getting new threads, this could be huge for us. disregard my opinion on this all you want, but a new look can often lead to a new and positive attitude not with just the players, but throughout the organization and the nba. the warriors are kind of a joke right now and some fresh new threads might be a big difference maker for us
2. the trading of curry, beidrins, maybe another player or two and some picks = better players, players who will fit, work in our system, and hopefully be the final piece(s) to this never ending puzzle
3. dont forget about this upcoming free agent class of 2010! while the warriors are being overlooked as big players this offseason, freeing up some cap space combined with our new look and attitude could give us a big boost towards making moves in this star studded free agent class. im not saying lets try to land lebron or wade or anyone like that (not that we could. but possibly bosh?) but still, there are A LOT of amazing players becoming free agents this offseason that will be overlooked and a new look warriors (remember the jerseys?) could bring some great guys here. oh yeah and the money too.
4. new coach. i love nelly i mean, who doesnt? but the dudes kinda old and is obviously getting really pissed with this team and certain players. a new coach could be the biggest different maker for us. nelly only has i think a year or two left on his contract after the end of this season and i honestly think he is over it. give the guy a hero’s dismissal and get some young blood in the coaching staff. who knows who will be available at the end of the season?
by nhlogan on Nov 17, 2009 1:50 AM PST reply actions
we will NOT be pl;ayers in summer of 2010
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/golden_state.htm
the cap is projectted at 51-54 million…. which we r at w/o signing anyone
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