Please Trade for Eddy Curry
by BJHustle on Nov 2, 2009 12:00 PM PST
125 comments
Forget about Peja, Ilgauskas, and any of those potential Piston trades. The most logical player to pick up would be EDDY CURRY!!! If the Warriors are going to move Stephen Jackson wouldn't it make sense to trade him for someone who will add something to our roster(About 300 pounds). Jackson is not likely to lead the Warriors in any statistical category this season considering the offensive talent of our SG/SFs (Azubuike, Morrow, Maggette, and potentially Randolph) and the passing prowess of our two talented PGs (Curry and Monta)...The Knicks were one of the teams Jackson listed as his desired destination so why not acquire a Powerful Post Presence in Eddy Curry.
He may not miss a lot of meals BUT over his 8 year career he has not missed a lot of games, not including the past 2 seasons when he was dealing with a tragic family loss. His last full season in 2006-2007 he average just under 20ppg and 7rpg in 81 games. And aside from one season he has always shot well over 50% from the floor. We are not deep into the season so far but already the Warriors big men, specifically Biedrins and Turiaf, are only averaging 25 and 21 minutes per game due to foul trouble. Big Curry will immediately add a skilled post presence to the W's lineup and could benefit from getting good passes from Little Curry and working with a long athletic forward like Randolph..Not to mention this guy is going to need to be double teamed often if he gets his offensive game going.
Overall the Warriors roster consists of 5 PGs and plenty of wing players, however there is a huge size disadvantage that will become more evident as the season continues. Why not exchange Jackson, who will not be one of the warriors better players this season, for some frontcourt help in the form on the 2nd biggest player in the NBA: Eddy Curry??
This is my first post so tell me what you guys think.
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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You know I thought about this a little bit awhile ago and I thought it wouldnt hurt us. I still think its somewhat of a good deal. Even if Curry couldnt do anything for us, it would still allow Morrow and Buike to get mins and allow them to grow. Id much rather have Morrow shooting, TRYING on DEF, and not complaining about getting the ball/complaining to the refs than Jackson
by jayhi22 on Nov 2, 2009 12:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I refuse to believe this is best we can do...
it’s too depressing a thought
by tafkasam on Nov 2, 2009 12:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think you can realistically expect us to gain anything in terms of production from a Stephen Jackson trade. The one thing we CAN gain is cap space. In that sense, we may be able to do better than Curry if someone is willing to give us contracts that expire next year.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
by Supafishal on Nov 2, 2009 12:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Wow
I think there’s a case that could be made for a Curry trade simply to get his shorter contract, but arguing for Eddy Curry for actual basketball reasons? No thanks.
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 2, 2009 12:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Thank you
The shorter K would be the only redeeming factor.
Also, the Knicks are in the business right now of reducing their continuing payroll. Jax may list the Knicks as a preferred destination, but the Knicks have no reason to saddle themselves with a bad K when they’ve been pretty efficient at getting rid of cap money.
Plus, the Knicks have bigger fish in the pond they are going after.
Chris Cohan- YOU'RE FIRED!
by bonbrillio on Nov 2, 2009 2:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, but I could see them having some interest in taking on Jackson and an expiring in exchange for Curry. If they do still plan on making a splash in the 2010 free agency “derby” then this trade would actually give them a little more maneuverability with the expiring and Jackson’s presence makes them a more attractive destination than Curry’s presence does. But I’m not sure they still like their odds to land LeBron, and/or Wade/Bosh. If they arent, going all in on that gamble then youre probably right and the deal doesnt make a whole lot of sense for them.
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 2, 2009 9:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe Curry has a player option for next year
Curry’s player option is being factored in to people’s analysis of NYK’s cap space. If they dumped Curry, Jefferies and, say, Chandler on us for Jack and MAggs they would clear up about $2 million more in cap room and significantly improve the team. Of course, we’d get 2 of the worst player/contract combinations in the NBA and Wilson Chandler for 2 more years each. Let’s just say it isn’t my favorite way to clear Jack and Maggs contracts for future cap space (even if Curry and Jeffries do nominally play positions that we are short on players for.)
by toddaverth on Nov 4, 2009 3:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
just for fun...
the saddest lineup in the NBA:
1. Speedy Claxton
2. Corey Maggette
3. Devean George
4. Mikki Moore
5. Eddie Curry
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
by Supafishal on Nov 2, 2009 12:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
and the obvious response:
I don’t know what’s worse, that lineup or the fact that 4/5ths of it is already on our roster…
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
by Supafishal on Nov 2, 2009 12:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you could cherry-pick a similarly bad lineup from most teams
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 2, 2009 1:04 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
just for fun,
the Spurs have the second saddest lineup in the NBA
1. Malik Hairston
2. Marcus Haislip
3. Keith Bogans
4. Theo Ratliff
5. Ian Mahinmi
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Nov 2, 2009 1:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff Teague
Jamal Crawford
Maurice Evans
Othello Hunter
Jason Collins
Jordan Farmar
Sasha Vujacic
Adam Morrison
Josh Powell
DJ Mbenga
Bobby Brown
Marcus Thornton
Darius Songaila
Ike Diogu
Sean Marks
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 2, 2009 2:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that fakers team would beat the crap out of the one I listed above
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
by Supafishal on Nov 2, 2009 3:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i’m not so sure. maggette is clearly the best player on any of the teams listed and if claxton’s knees still work, i’d put my money on the warriors’ five over any of the other “worst fives” up there. if you switched maggs out for acie law, the discussion would look a lot different.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Nov 2, 2009 5:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
if you switched maggs out for acie law, the discussion would look a lot different.
But then positions wouldn’t quite make sense.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 3, 2009 10:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt it, like cap points out, Maggette is far better than any of the other players listed. As much as I dislike his game a healthy Curry is probably one of the better bigs on that list too.
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 2, 2009 9:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
meh, on 2nd thought Curry probably isn’t one of the better bigs on that list, but still Maggette is quite a bit better than anyone else there.
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 2, 2009 10:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No
Not enough room on this team for 2 Curry’s. Oops, my bad Eddy Curry is like 4 or 5 Curry’s by himself.
49er faithful since July 11, 1985
by J2daZ on Nov 2, 2009 1:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
In fairness, Steph’s heart and cojones are 6 times the size of his “big” brother Eddy’s. He’s also probably a better rebounder, interior defender, and shotblocker than “big” Eddy.
As Sam said, it might be worth it just to be rid of Jackson’s poisonous attitude an onerous contract, but it’s not worth it if Curry’s going to receive any actual playing time. Fortunately, since Curry’s essentially the antithesis of a Nellieball player, I don’t think we’d have to worry about that happening.
Dream target for is still Renaldo Balkman, who’s getting precisely zero minutes in Karl’s (kickass) rotation in Denver. If we could flip Jack to Cleveland for nothing (i.e take Big Z and then waive him) and pry Balkman for one of our expirings, I’d be pretty excited. As I said, Balkman at the 3 allows us to play Curry/Monta pretty regularly without getting killed on D and on the glass.
The secondary, much less realistic part of that dream is this: Balkman is such a good rebounder, defender, and garbage cleaner at the 3 that his presence might allow us to contemplate dumping Biedrins for a guy who can shoot and play a little post offense. Not Amare, who I maintain is an overrated, declining, cancerous no-defense ballhog … but yes please to Chris Bosh. Say Monta, Biedrins and our first round pick for Bosh…? It’d have be contingent on Bosh making some kind of verbal agreement to an extension (which would likely never happen) but would anyone here not be on board with this team?
1. Curry / CJ / Acie
2. Morrow / Kelenna
3. Balkman / Maggs
4. Randolph / Wright / Moore
5. Bosh / Turiaf
I mean, Toronto does still kinda owe us from the Marco trade…
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Nov 2, 2009 1:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the spacing of bosh, randolph, balkman
is truly horrifying and i doubt we’d see nellie run it. Other coach maybe, but nellie…. NO
by tafkasam on Nov 2, 2009 2:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Possibly, though Bosh have a sweet stroke from 12 ft. out to 18, and Randolph seems to be developing one (slowly).
A backcourt with the sick range of Curry/Morrow (+ ’Buike and CJ) spaces the floor.
Passing could be an issue, though Bosh is a decent passing man — better than Amare at any rate: 2.1 to 1.4 assists per 36, career. (Also, minuscule sample size, but through three games Bosh is rebounding at better than double the rate of Amare…)
Back on planet earth: this team could totally use Balkman and he seems gettable. Do it Riley!
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Nov 2, 2009 2:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah it could definitely work. Could use another coach, but meh….. Nellie would bring balkman majority of time as his backup 4 if he got him.
Anyone else consider trading Randolph? His value around the league is way beyond his actual ability. Sometimes you have to give to get. Just saying if we could get bosh for monta + Randolph (and this assumes an extension would be signed) I’d do it in a heart beat. Boston had to give up al jefferson (borderline all star now) for garnett…
And I think that summarizes a problem warriors management has had over years. Never have the balls to spring on a trade, always valuing what ‘could be in future’/never comes. From my PoV an all star PF who is 25 is more than worth giving away a hot prospect like Randolph. He may become a star in 3 years, he may not….
Curry, Morrow, Young Fella , Bosh, Biedrins.
Of course this is all dependent on an extension which would never happen.
by tafkasam on Nov 2, 2009 2:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone else consider trading Randolph? His value around the league is way beyond his actual ability.
You’ve got a point there…..if his value is as high around the league as it is in fantasy leagues and among pretty hardcore nba fans.
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 2, 2009 9:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I dont see many more spacing issues with that team than with our current lineup. Balkman doesnt have the range that Jackson has, but Morrow can spread the floor better than Monta and Bosh would do more to space the floor than Biedrins.
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 2, 2009 9:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I love Biedrins more than most but yea, I’m definitely on board with that plan if Bosh signs an extension. Also, I love how you ended that.
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 2, 2009 9:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
“Please Trade for Eddy Curry”
I really didn’t think I’d ever see those words.
As sam23 correctly noted, Eddy Curry remains the reason that no player in the NBA is untradeable (other than Eddy Curry), provided you’re willing to take back Eddy Curry.
by jae on Nov 2, 2009 1:45 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
To be honest....why not?
I hear he’s been working his butt off trying to make a comeback, and I don’t see how an athletic, 7’0, 300 lbs, wouldn’t help down low. (Yes I said athletic, not “in-shape”)
The only issue I would have is his health status. And even then it may be worth his expiring contract alone.
Bad rebounder w/ No defense(He’d fit right in), we have Ronny and Beans for that, but I think people are quick to forget that this dude just SCORES. He’s a huge presence down low. IMO it’d be a good risk.
by esco41510 on Nov 2, 2009 2:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see how an athletic, 7’0, 300 lbs, wouldn’t help down low.
He wouldn’t help down low because there are two ends of the court, and when you’re not on the end where you’re trying to score, what you do matters. You do note that he’s a bad reboudner with no defense and write it off with a joke. But that doesn’t do justice to just how much damage he can do when he’s on the court — damage to his own team.
by jae on Nov 2, 2009 4:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My bad, not expiring untill after 2010-2011
But It’s still shorter than Jax’s.
by esco41510 on Nov 2, 2009 2:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
this is the dumbest idea by far – eddy curry is done in this league – and do you know how we play? he’s not conditioned for run n gun
by p8tmydra on Nov 2, 2009 5:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
esco41510 what have you been drinking Eddy Curry's cool aid
He is not athletic and how can you run a run and gun offense with a player who cannot run
I'm in eighth grade give me a break
by Mike Fox on Nov 2, 2009 6:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
you run the other 4 guys.
eddie curry’s terrible, so i’m not advocating giving him minutes, but you can get out on the break pretty well with one guy on the court lagging behind. running doesn’t require the full team to be sprinters.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Nov 2, 2009 6:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fat does not mean, NOT athletic...you need to learn the difference.
And the guys is very athletic for being 7 feet tall. Anyone who has seen him play can tell that. Whether he applies it to the court in a productive manner is a different thing. I’ve played against some 300+ pounders in football who could outrun non-athletic LB’s.
And what’s the difference between getting an aged Zydrunas, how athletic is he? He’s not going to be our primary front court, he’s a player you sub in at point that our offense is stagnant and half to player 1/2 court.
by esco41510 on Nov 3, 2009 4:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And what’s the difference between getting an aged Zydrunas
The difference is about 3 rebounds per 36 over the course of Z’s career, although in the relatively small sample size this season he’s well below that.
by jae on Nov 3, 2009 5:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Stop swinging for the fences...
Bosh is not going to happen, and the same can be said for Monta or Randolph getting moved.. If the Warriors are serious about trading Jackson then they need to bring in someone who brings something to the team. Eddy Curry can score inside enough to require a double team, this might allow open looks for our wings on the outside and offensive rebound opportunities for whoever plays in the frontcourt alongside him. After being traded from Chicago to NY his overall game improved and a move to the Land of the Golden Gate just might be what it takes to re-energize the big guy, after all he is still only 26 years old!!!
Steven Jackson has had his moments(good and bad) for GS, but its not worth holding out to get a better deal if the goal is to get him out of the mix. I would settle for Curry and personally prefer him over any of the other “realistic” trades. Let’s add a real big man to the Dubs lineup!!!
by BJHustle on Nov 2, 2009 7:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Eddy Curry can score inside enough to require a double team, this might allow open looks for our wings on the outside and offensive rebound opportunities for whoever plays in the frontcourt alongside him.
The “Eddy Curry requires a doubleteam and that will free up the guards” experiment didn’t really work in NY. I see no reason why that would change. He doesn’t pass out of the double team well and as such, it’s only when the double team comes when he doesn’t have the ball that it does any good. That is a rare event. Consequently, he has had little to no positive impact on his teammates, no matter how often the “but he’ll free up teammates on the perimeter” hypothesis gets dragged out. It.just.doesn’t.happen. In fact, he has historically made his team’s offense significantly worse when he’s played vs. when he’s sat.
Again, the game is played on both ends of the court. It’s important to remember this. I know it’s easy to forget, but it’s true. And on the defensive end, Curry just doesn’t cut it. It’s real important to look at just how poorly he rebounds. It isn’t like he’s a tad below average and someone else might be able to make up that difference. He’s terrible. He’s truly terrible. In general, every one of those rebounds he doesn’t get equates to a point for the opposition. He won’t become a better rebounder. That just doesn’t happen. And as such, he is a huge liability on the court.
So now why would we want a guy who doesn’t defend, can’t rebound, and makes his team’s offense worse? If the answer is anything other than “because his contract is shorters”, then the answer is wrong.
by jae on Nov 2, 2009 8:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Eddy Curry can score inside enough to require a double team, this might allow open looks for our wings on the outside
It might … if Curry had ever shown the slightest willingness or ability to pass the ball.
Let’s add a real big man to the Dubs lineup!!!
Sounds like a plan — anyone in particular you had in mind? Remember, “real” big men do not average under seven rebounds and under one block per 36 minutes.
I would settle for Curry and personally prefer him over any of the other "realistic" trades
Which other realistic trades are you referring to? I mean, in the end Curry may be the only realistic trade option, but I think most people here agree that he’s also about the worst case scenario (or if you prefer, the “Ultimate Price.”)
Stop swinging for the fences…
Hey, it’s more exciting than bunting foul with two strikes… ;-P
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Nov 2, 2009 8:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, it’s more exciting than bunting foul with two strikes… ;-P
LMAO. That’s pretty much exactly what trading Jax for Curry would be if you expected Curry to contribute anything more than a slightly shorter contract.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 3, 2009 10:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, for real.
It is bad enough when you guys go on about Stephen Curry. But now Eddy Curry? This is some BS. I am living on campus, and am at the mercy of the dining halls when it comes to eating Indian food. I am straight dying, as soon as I get back to SF for Thanksgiving break I am going straight to Naan and Curry and ordering everything.
Stop reminding me. Get that Eddy Curry talk out of here.
by belilaugh on Nov 2, 2009 8:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and…ARE YOU SERIOUS? It’s Eddy Curry. The phrases “Eddy Curry” and “frontcourt help” should never be used on the same webpage.
by belilaugh on Nov 2, 2009 8:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you on Eddy Curry
He’s awful, and this fanpost is laughable.
But what you got against Stephen?
by philthiest on Nov 2, 2009 10:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing except his last name. But I’ll live with that since he seems to have something going on. I can’t deal with two Currys though. We don’t need to talk about Eddy Curry.
by belilaugh on Nov 3, 2009 12:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes please
Trade Machine is not working so here it is. We get Al Jefferson ,Z and J. Williams but we waive Z so he goes back to the Cavs, Minnesota gets Beans, Maggs and D.jack and the Cavs get Jack and Blount.
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
by dubzfan on Nov 2, 2009 8:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Al Jefferson’s dirty little secret is that he’s a pretty crappy basketball player. A couple steps above Eddy Curry, but a step below Biedrins. He’s never been great shakes on offense (career .537 TS%), has always been a godawful defender, and so far this season looks to be in some weird funk that for all we know presages another extended visit to the DL.
Even if it allowed us to get rid of Jackson: pass.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Nov 2, 2009 9:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
it’s weird, his great post moves seem to trick everyone into thinking he’s a great scorer. really, he’s nothing more than a terrible defending, great rebounding big, with a lot of polish on his mediocre offensive game.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Nov 2, 2009 9:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If I was Minny I’d be looking to rob someone silly with a Jefferson trade this year. Sadly, Golden State is probably the first place I’d turn (asking for Curry and Biedrins first, but I’d definitely willing to take Biedrins and Buike)
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 2, 2009 10:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you really think biedrins is better than jefferson?
by tafkasam on Nov 2, 2009 10:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yes
and his contract is way better.
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 2, 2009 10:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
care to elaborate
I see 1 guy with no post ability and another who can post up and score consistant 20 ppg fairly efficiently (50% shooter). Both are equal rebounders and shot blockers.
Defensively they leave alot to be desired but I don’t see anything biedrins does better other than run the floor and kiss barnett
by tafkasam on Nov 2, 2009 10:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
.532 TS% is more telling of his efficiency. it’s below average.
biedrins is the better rebounder (20.2 TRB% vs 17.5), scores in his limited way more efficiently and is a much more active defender. he’s picks up marginally more blocks too. if ability to create his own shot makes up for all that, jefferson is better, if it doesn’t, it’s biedrins.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Nov 2, 2009 10:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
while I see your point, the fact we have ZERO low post scorers makes jefferson a much more valuable commodity. I love biedrins, but Randolph can rebound just as efficiently (him small sample size suggests)
More importantly, having a guy who you can legitimately give the ball in the post with his back to the basket will make us a much more complete team.
by tafkasam on Nov 2, 2009 10:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I get the feeling you're comparing him to Z-dolf
and I think thats a bit of a stretch
by tafkasam on Nov 2, 2009 10:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
oh no, i don’t think jefferson is a bad player or a team cancer or anything like that, i just think he’s one of the league’s most overrated players. if he’s your best player, your team stinks.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Nov 2, 2009 10:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ok. Fair enough
I think he could help us overall though.
by tafkasam on Nov 2, 2009 10:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yea, I don’t think he’s a terrible player, just that he’s very overrated. His ability to score in the post is a pretty rare skill and he is a good rebounder.
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 2, 2009 10:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
overrated by who though?
he does not get any mainstream media attention
by tafkasam on Nov 2, 2009 10:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bosh is much more overrated
for such a franchise big, he cant get toronto into the playoffs.
case and point. DWade carried a much worse team to 5th seed. Bosh can’t get 8th
by tafkasam on Nov 2, 2009 10:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yea but is anyone saying Bosh is as good as a healthy DWade? I’m not sure Bosh isn’t a bit overrated too, but he has been the best player on a playoff team twice. Al Jefferson hasn’t done that yet and he’s only been in the league one year less than Bosh. Bosh is exactly surrounded by talent up there either. I LOVE Jose Calderon, but beyond that there just hasn’t been much talent there.
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 2, 2009 10:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
espn adores him, especially hollinger and simmons.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Nov 2, 2009 10:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hollinger adores Bwright
Simmons adores Randolph.
I think they are just bored of writing about kobe/lebron
by tafkasam on Nov 2, 2009 10:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
PER projections said jefferson was the 7th best player in the league coming into this year and simmons writes absolutely gushing pieces about how he’s a franchise player.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Nov 2, 2009 10:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
simmons gushes over anyone who once worse a celtics/red sox/bruins/patriots jersey.
no bias
by tafkasam on Nov 2, 2009 10:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that’s definitely true. i was just thinking of his trade value column from last year where he had freshly torn acl jefferson in the top 20 and said he’d be about 10 spots higher if it weren’t for that injury.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Nov 2, 2009 10:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the fact that Simmons loves Randolph so much actually scares me. I think that guy doesn’t know nearly as much about basketball as he thinks he does, but when he starts talking about Randolph he seems to say the same things I want to say about him.
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 2, 2009 10:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
TBF...
What i’ve seen is, he loves his potential and finds him exciting to watch. Both are true. I dont ever recall him saying “Anthony Randolph is Kevin Garnett/Daryl Dawkins and MAgic Johnson reincarnated in one human being”
by tafkasam on Nov 2, 2009 10:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Anthony Randolph is Kevin Garnett/Daryl Dawkins and MAgic Johnson reincarnated in one human being
he can’t. we’ve trademarked that over here.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Nov 2, 2009 10:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
oh i know
but he has said he could become something like that. And I agree with him….thats the part that worries me. Part of me just wishes everyone would stop staring at our Anthony Randolph and just leave him alone until he blossoms into the full blown superstar we all know he’ll be.
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 2, 2009 10:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and the other part of me wonders
What can we get if we package randolph + monta or biedrins…
could we get a legitimate all star? Would you do it? In an ideal scenerio we could trade monta + randolph for a all star big to team w/ biedrins, magically sign him to an extension.
Dump jack and Maggette for anything expiring, use remaining cap room on a quality #2 option on wing (maybe manu?)…. All of a sudden this team is playoff bound still with a young core (bosh 25, biedrins 24, curry 22, + morrow, buike, bwright).
But I’ll get out of dreamland. More likely scenario: Fire Nelson next year, bring in a coach who will put too much pressure on randolph. End up trading him for mark blount and a can of tuna in 2 years, watch him floorish into a quality PF in 3-5 years and punish us every trip to oracle
by tafkasam on Nov 3, 2009 8:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
a jefferson for biedrins trade, straight up might work for both teams. i tend to think they’re pretty similar in quality and jefferson would round out our team pretty well. the real question would be who would score points for the wolves after that trade? they are pretty crappy in that regard, but kevin love should be the focus of their post offense when he gets back.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Nov 2, 2009 10:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
dream scenerio
biedrins + jack 4 jefferson + cardinal.
We bring back the greatest warrior of all time, and send young fella to an even worse team.
by tafkasam on Nov 2, 2009 10:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i don’t know, as great as it’d be to get rid of jack, that escalating contract of jefferson’s just terrifies me. factor in that he hasn’t looked himself in the first few games of this season and we’re taking a very expensive risk and giving up a player of similar quality to jefferson just to get rid of stephen jackson. it’d be tough to swallow.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Nov 2, 2009 10:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And I’m too in love with Biedrins and his non-escalating contract to want to include him any trade that doesn’t bring us something like Bosh already signed to an extension.
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 2, 2009 10:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ehhhh
Jefferson is 24. When it expires he’s making 15 mil (hardly untradeable) and he’s 29. Large escalating contracts scare me with players in there 30s. But generally teams won’t think twice on trading for a 20/10 big who is in his mid to late 20s who has NO character problems
by tafkasam on Nov 3, 2009 8:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I do think its unfair to say minnesota stinks cause of jefferson
What supporting cast did/does he have?
by tafkasam on Nov 2, 2009 10:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
he has zero supporting cast, and that likely hurts his efficency some. i’m not putting their ineptitude on jefferson, just saying that if you don’t have anyone better than him on your team, you’ve got a bad team. that’s the case for the wolves until kevin love takes the reigns.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Nov 2, 2009 10:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe, but Biedrins also seems to be improving quite a bit as a passer, and his ability to start the break with the pass is pretty valuable.
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 2, 2009 10:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
jefferson seems to be making strides in that area too. biedrins was better last year, so even if they both improve in that regard, biedrins would still be the better passer, but we did leave passing out of the equation somehow. silly omission on all of our parts.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Nov 2, 2009 10:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
actually Jefferson is far less efficient (a below average .537 career TS%) while Biedrins is well above average (career .605 TS% despite being awful from the the line) Sure thats not completely fair, because Biedrins’ offensive game is mostly putbacks and other “garbage points,” but efficiency is still important. Biedrins is also a better rebounder even when you account for the Warriors tempo and is, in my opinion, a less-bad defensive player.
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 2, 2009 10:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This might be an oversimplification, but comparing offensive players at the same position one could ask “could Jefferson do Biedrins’ job?” The answer is yes, Al can run the pick and roll and has good hands around the rim and he can sink a few more free throws too. But can Biedrins do Jefferson’s job? No, throwing the ball into Andris, popping from 20, etc. would probably bring AB’s fg% into the 30s. Obviously neither would be asked to fill the other’s role but to me this comparison means Biedrins can’t possibly be “better” than Jefferson offensively in any meaningful sense of the word.
An empty barrel makes the most noise.
by antihero on Nov 3, 2009 2:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This might be an oversimplification, but comparing offensive players at the same position one could ask “could Jefferson do Biedrins’ job?” The answer is yes, Al can run the pick and roll and has good hands around the rim and he can sink a few more free throws too. But can Biedrins do Jefferson’s job? No, throwing the ball into Andris, popping from 20, etc. would probably bring AB’s fg% into the 30s. Obviously neither would be asked to fill the other’s role but to me this comparison means Biedrins can’t possibly be “better” than Jefferson offensively in any meaningful sense of the word.
An empty barrel makes the most noise.
by antihero on Nov 3, 2009 2:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
wow I commented right when the site updated!
An empty barrel makes the most noise.
by antihero on Nov 3, 2009 2:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Will Biedrins is a very nice player, Jefferson is a big upgrade. Should Biedrins become a defensive stopper (which none of his play has suggested) then we can have argument is jeffersons offense worth giving up biedrins defense, but this isnt the case.
by tafkasam on Nov 3, 2009 8:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Biedrins is a better rebounder, which is a big part of D. And even if he’s a totally mediocre defender, he’s better at it than Jefferson. And he’s a much better passer. And he’s a much more efficient shooter (the difference between a .605 TS% and .537 is huge). And he’s a year younger. And he’s qiuicker and more suited to the pace of Nellieball. And he’s been a bit more durable over the course of his career.
I’ve lost some of my love for Biedrins over the past year or so, but I’d still take him in a heartbeat over Al Jefferson. There’s a reason, beyond just “crappy teammates,” that Jefferson’s teams have always been terrible. It’s amazing to me that fans can look at the night-and-day difference the Celtics wrought when they upgraded from Jefferson to KG and still think garbage stats like “20/10” matter. On paper, the stats casual fans tend to cherish actually make Jefferson look like a better player than the 2009/10 edition of Kevin Garnett. On an NBA court, Jefferson’s “advantage” in points and rebounds per game is totally outweighed by the fact that Garnett shoots efficiently, plays lockdown man and team defense, and gets his teammates involved (while Jefferson does none of the above).
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Nov 3, 2009 9:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
there is a GIGANTIC difference to Garnett and Biedrins
Biedrins D is not better than Jefferson, in fact Jefferson for one rolled him over.
by tafkasam on Nov 3, 2009 9:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody's arguing that
Sleepy was pointing out the fact that going from Al Jefferson to KG meant, oh… about 20 games and a championship. With Al. Name me one single other player who’s considered a star that you could replace with another player and improve their teams’ performance by 20 games.
On an NBA court, Jefferson’s "advantage" in points and rebounds per game istotallyoutweighed by the fact thatGarnettBiedrins shoots efficiently, playslockdownat least marginally adequate man and team defense, andgetsat least tries to get his teammates involved (while Jefferson does none of the above).
This is how it would read vis-a-vis Biedrins vs. Jefferson.
Please justify your claim that Biedrins’ D is worse than Jefferson’s. Pointing out that Jefferson is fatter does not help (See: Boston’s improvement on defense by switching from Jefferson to Kevin Garnett)
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 3, 2009 10:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i didnt say jefferson was a better defender. I said he wasn’t worse. They are both poor IMO
by tafkasam on Nov 3, 2009 10:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
he can be better in the sense of the way he produces is better at helping a team win. could jefferson do what biedrins does? yeah, sure he probably could do a lot of it (though he’d be slower at both running and defending the pick and roll), but he doesn’t. jefferson demands the ball in the post, where he fails to score efficiently. this has always been the case, even when he had paul pierce as his teammate.
maybe he could do what biedrins does, but my guess is he’ll keep posting up to take advantage of his nice looking, mediocre post game. that’s what he does and what he’ll likely do for his whole career. given public perception, i don’t suspect that many NBA coaches would have the guts to tell him not to.
and if it was true that what biedrins does is easy, more guys would do it. just because it looks easy, doesn’t mean it is.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Nov 3, 2009 10:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jerry always made it look easy
The fact that he did so is part of what makes him the GOAT.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 3, 2009 7:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
they aren’t far off from one another. biedrins is limited, but he’s more effective in what he does. and sam’s proposed deal would definitely qualify as robbery. if they made the second deal, the wolves would be considerably better, and we’d be considerably worse. i don’t think the first deal helps the wolves as much (sessions and flynn at the point are much better than brewer and gomes on the wings).
our sister blog canis hoopus was debating what they could get for jefferson and one poster suggested varejao. he got jumped on, but someone like varejao would be awesome for them. if i were the wolves, i’d call the clippers and see if they could center a deal around camby and picks.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Nov 2, 2009 10:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yea Camby would be great too, only problem there is his contract expires (I think) and the Wolves are probably a couple years from contending
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 2, 2009 10:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that’s true, i was just sort of throwing a name out there, but a good defender who blocks shots, can run the pick and roll and has a midrange game is the player they should be looking for to replace jefferson.
and while they’re at it, they should try to get a decent wing player in the deal. it wouldn’t be unrealistic to get a player of equal ability to jefferson and a good young swingman on top of it. jefferson is seriously overrated.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Nov 2, 2009 10:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yea as a player I think he’s exactly the kind of guy they should be looking to acquire for Jefferson’s overrated value (but all this is contingent upon Jefferson actually having as much value among rival GMs as he seems to have among most fans and the media)
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 2, 2009 10:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
but all this is contingent upon Jefferson actually having as much value among rival GMs as he seems to have among most fans and the media)
that’s always the real question. his fat contract implies that he’s got at least one GM fooled, but who knows how true that is around the league.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Nov 2, 2009 10:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
throwing this one out there, if you were the wolves gm, would you take a risk and do a deal like this: roy hibbert and mike dunleavy for jefferson? they desperately need some scoring at the wings, hibbert seems to finally look like he might be a credible NBA starter. has anyone seen hibbert play this preseason? does he have a midrange game? dunleavy’s nothing but contract filler who fits a temporary need until they go get a real wing player, but he’s only got two years left, so they’d have a lot of cash to play with in 2011 as a result of this.
making up trades is fun.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Nov 2, 2009 11:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i need to never play with the trade machine again. i get caught up in how fun it is and forget how bad hibbert was last year. i take that back and apologize to anyone who wasted time reading it.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Nov 2, 2009 11:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
haha, I was just gonna say you may have taken the “Jefferson is overrated” thing a little too far with the Hibbert/Dunleavy talk.
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 3, 2009 9:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Two more trades.. (Will I ever stop?)
Trade 1 : GSW gets Wallace
CHA gets Prince
NO gets Jack
DET gets Posey and J. Wright
Trade 2 : GSW gets Wallace
CLE gets Jack and Kwame
DET gets Z and once he is available Jamario Moon
CHA gets Prince
They both seem pretty plausible. Throw in a very realistic deal of Maggs for Mark Blount (awesome…)
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
by dubzfan on Nov 2, 2009 11:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about Wallace anymore...
I really like him, and he plays both end of the floor… but he’s played three games this season (one being double OT) and has yet to record a single assist…
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Nov 3, 2009 2:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If he goes for 24 and 20 with 4 steals like he did the other night I wouldnt be all that upset about him not getting an assist
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 3, 2009 9:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
True enough. He’s still be a vast improvement over any of our current 3’s because none of them pass either.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Nov 3, 2009 12:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see how our involvement in those deals benefits any of the other teams involved. In both cases if I were the team getting Jackson I would rather just cut GS out and take G. Wallace. I love thinking about Wallace playing nellieball too, but its not gonna happen if all we give up is Jackson no matter how many teams you involve in the trade.
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 3, 2009 9:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And that's why we can throw in Claxton, George, Law or Moore as an expiring
I think Cj has a no trade clause.
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
by dubzfan on Nov 3, 2009 1:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
?
that doesn’t explain why some team would be willing to give up enough to get Gerald Wallace but mysteriously want Jackson instead. Wallace > Jackson.
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 3, 2009 2:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jack is not going to Charlotte
He’s going to Cleveland. Charlotte really either wants a big name player or to save money and this saves money and they would then be able to go after a big name. And Prince as far as I’m concerned is about as good as Wallace. Detroit may need a draft pick or two to make it work
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
by dubzfan on Nov 3, 2009 9:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wallace is better and has more trade value than Jackson. Why would Cleveland want to pay the trade price it would take to get Wallace out of Charlotte but receive an inferior player with less value? It just doesnt make sense.
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 3, 2009 10:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Basically I'm looking at the fact that Cleveland has had a lot of interest in Jack
Besides, Jack is a better fit for Cleveland than Wallace. They need more play makers when Lebron is not out there and jack can fill that void. Maybe he is not efficient but Jack is still more of a play maker than Wallace.
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
by dubzfan on Nov 3, 2009 11:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Besides, Jack is a better fit for Cleveland than Wallace
How? Why? Wallace is a better player. I don’t buy the Cavs being better with Jackson than they would be with Wallace, do you seriously believe that? If the Cavs had Wallace they’d probably have the two best SFs in the NBA and both guys are versatile enough to play multiple positions. Much of their rumored interest in Jackson seems to be derived from their difficulty guarding long athletic players in the playoffs last year. Wallace would help with that much more than Jackson would. Cleveland is rumored to have a lot of interest in Jackson (and thats not quite the same thing as actually having interest in him) because the Warriors will likely ask for much less than the Bobcats will for Wallace.
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 4, 2009 1:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just...
Let him be.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 4, 2009 8:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
2 best SFs
i’m sure carmelo might disagree….
by tafkasam on Nov 4, 2009 9:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There’s really only one best SF. I think there are a few guys for whom you could make a reasonable case at #2: ’Melo, Pierce, Wallace, maybe Kirilenko…
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Nov 4, 2009 11:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Carmelo is above the rest you have mentioned imo. Plus he’s really been killing it early.
by MO-ped MO-problems on Nov 4, 2009 1:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pierce is also killing it early. And over his career, Pierce has been a more efficient scorer than Carmelo, a better passer, and his equal at rebounding and taking care of the ball. Anecdotally, I think he’s also a significantly better defender. Plus he has a shiny championship ring, thanks in part to his ability to outplay (for long stretches) the Best SF in the World.
Sure, I would take Carmelo over Pierce because he’s younger, but by no real measure is Carmelo “above” Pierce right now.
As for Carmelo v. Wallace … well, as a stats nerd, I wanna disagree with you, since Wallace (efficient, great rebounder and defender) is the type of player Dave Berri and Wins Produced fans consider underrated, whereas Carmelo (big time scorer, not super-efficient) is they type of guy they consider overrated. By wins produced, Wallace looks like a slightly better player than Carmelo. Still, in the real world, if you twisted my arm, there’s no way I would take actually take Gerald Wallace over Carmelo Anthony…
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Nov 4, 2009 1:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The injury bug knocks Wallace down more than just a tad
Another concussion and he’ll have to start seriously considering retirement. An exaggeration? Yeah, but not by much.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 4, 2009 3:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And
And when jack is motivated he is very useful. He probably fits in better then Wallace in Cleveland or New Orleans( the 2 teams getting Jack…)
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
by dubzfan on Nov 3, 2009 9:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A healthy Wallace is quite a bit better than a happy Jackson. I suspect the better player is a better “fit” for either N.O. or Cleveland. I can imagine both those teams having interest in either Wallace or Jackson, but I can’t imagine them being willing to give up what it would take to acquire Wallace while receiving Jackson…. it would just be an incredibly stupid move on their part. Imagine a 3 way trade where we send Curry and Randolph and 10 future picks to Cleveland, the Cavs send LeBron to Porland and Portland send Brandon Roy to us? Don’t you see how it just doesn’t make sense for us to get Portland involved in that deal?
Thing A
by sam23 on Nov 3, 2009 10:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sam, you’re assuming you’re dealing with someone sufficiently advanced cognitively to grasp the concept of “someone else’s point of view.” As you know, that’s frequently not the case on sports blogs. You’ll stay sane longer if you keep in mind that all other NBA GMs are cardboard cutouts whose sole function is to to help the Warriors out.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Nov 3, 2009 11:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Keep him
Am I the only that believes that since there’s no way we’re getting anywhere near equal value for Jackson, and that our roster is deeper and more talented than its been since we lost Baron, that we should roll with what we have? I mean, can’t we just keep Jackson? He has been our best defender since he got here pretty much. I realize that after two games, the team has looked a little flat in certain situations but is it impossible for us to succeed with our current roster? I for one could see this team figuring it out. Honestly I hope that’s what we do.
If I’m way off and Jackson being moved is an inevitability as many have seemed to suggest I think its absolutely imperative that we get back someone who is a proven defender. I don’t see that there are many big men options, maybe we could get back a swing guy who can defend. The guys that have stuck out to me are James Posey or Tayshaun Prince (which would likely require a third being involved considering I cant see Jack landing in detroit.)
by MO-ped MO-problems on Nov 3, 2009 3:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Eddy Curry could be a little bit useful...
Has anyone thought about the possibility that Eddy Curry might actually help Randolph, Biedrins, and Turiaf in practice? How exactly are they supposed to learn how to guard post players when they don’t have anyone on the team with any post game at all? I bet there’s a big difference between guarding Steven Silas in the post than there is guarding Eddy Curry there.
Maybe E-Curry would be a great tool to have as a practice dummy. So this trade would then be a little bit more than just a salary move. It would still be highly unlikely that he would get any PT in a real game….
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Nov 3, 2009 7:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
eddy curry… really…
it's just a game.
www.bayareascores.com
by Slicker on Nov 4, 2009 12:45 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
The Knicks were one of the teams Jackson listed as his desired destination
Does Jackson have any say over where he gets traded? In my book trading him where he wants to go makes the deal much less appealing. I’m thinking maybe Milwaukee for Jack…
If Bochy coached the Warriors Bengie Molina would start every game at PG.
by cybermaldonado on Nov 4, 2009 11:09 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
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