Five Good Things So Far
by onlxn on Nov 2, 2009 5:30 PM PST
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PrintThis four-day layoff came at a pretty inopportune time. Usually you don't have a lot of time to dwell on a bad loss, because another game pushes it aside; thanks to our odd early schedule, we've still got a while to go till we can wash the taste of that Suns game out of our mouths. It's got a lot of us feeling worried and cranky. And to be sure, there are issues aplenty: Jack's a headache, Randolph's screwing up again, Monta's slowing himself and the team down by trying to play point guard, and we're already razor-thin in the frontcourt, two games in.
Still, I feel good about this season. I like this team, and I like our future. Here are five reasons why.
1) Stephen Curry! I am not saying that he'll be Steve Nash. I'm not saying he'll be an All-Star. I'm not even necessarily saying he'll be an above-average point guard. But I think we've seen enough to say that *we have a point guard*, a guy who can play and defend the position credibly. That's a great, important thing for this franchise... it means we don't have to live and die with Monta's development.
2) Kelenna Azubuike! Hot damn, he's looked fantastic... glad to hear he's been practicing with the first unit, because he absolutely deserves to be considered for a starting job. There's of course a dark cloud to this silver lining: I think it's pretty much a no-brainer that 'Buike will opt out of his contract this summer. That adds urgency to the drive to trade Jack, as we'd ideally get a clear sense of what we have in Morrow and 'Buike before we'd decide whether or not to extend them. Right now, 'Buike's making a pretty compelling argument that we should at least think about keeping him around.
3) Andris Biedrins! For all the talk of the MJM trio's selfishness hurting Curry, I'd say Biedrins has actually been the most affected... there hasn't been any sustained effort to get him involved in the usual screen-and-rolls of years past. But I think Biedrins has looked pretty good out there, and in particular, his passing seems noticeably better. His assist rate took a jump last year, and while we're only two games in, considering the smoothness with which he's been finding people, I'd expect another little jump this year. That'd good be, not only because it'll make him a better player, but because it may make Nellie more willing to give him consistent starter's minutes. Biedrins will never be a Nellie-friendly type of player, but I'd improved passing would make him a lot more palatable to the big man.
4) Don Nelson! I'm not going to pretend that I think that Nellie's doing a stellar job... any athletic team with defense as woeful as ours is not being coached perfectly, and Nellie continues to think that Jack's more useful than he is. But I do think that Nellie's doing an overall *good* job, as opposed to last year. He's generally playing his best players and deploying lineups that make sense; as much as I hate seeing Maggette at power forward, I can at least understand where it comes from when the alternative is Mikki Moore. Nellie's going to war with a rookie at the point at the risk of alienating a star veteran; I think that's the right call. And he seems very good at knowing how to coax smart play out of Randolph.
I do think that this roster's brightest moments will come under a different coach. Between Monta and Maggette's abilities to get to the hoop, the efficiency of Biedrins, the sharp-shooting of 'Buike and Morrow and the promise of Curry, this is actually *not* a team that needs the offensive genius of Nellie to figure out how to score. This roster's big limitations are on the other side of the ball, and that's a side where Nellie just doesn't give you much. In a weird way, I think Nellie's a poor fit for this roster. But Nellie *is* a very good coach when focused, and he seems genuinely focused again this year. I hope that keeps up... if you ask me, Focused Nellie is 8 to 10 games per season better than Tuned-Out Nellie.
5) Stephen Jackson! Okay, okay... Stephen Jackson is not a Good Thing for the Warriors right now. But we've heard a number of rumors about possible destinations for him, enough so that it seems likely that we'll be able to dump him for '11 expirings at worst, and possibly better. I'm frankly shocked by that; I wouldn't have thought he'd bring back that much even *before* he demanded a trade. But luckily for us, it would seem that a lot of GMs overrate him almost as much as Rowell and Nellie do. If his unhappiness forces us to get from under his contract, he will have actually done us a huge favor.
I really like this team. I want Jack gone yesterday, and I'll admit to being a little tired of The Corey Maggette Show, and I'm ready for Monta to start playing like Monta again, but overall, I think this is a fun, likeable bunch of guys with some real upside. Playoff-bound this year? Nah, but there's real promise here. Not in the usual "we're the Warriors and we suck so we need to pretend there's promise" sort of way, but in a "dang, we actually have pretty interesting young players at every position and a decent cap situation if we can get Jack gone" sort of way.
Of course, if we lose to Memphis at home on Wednesday, OMGSEASONZOVERFIREROWELLLARRYELLISONetc. But for now, that glass is looking mighty half-full to me.
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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Jackson + Speedy for Big Z + JJ Hickson, and we drop Big Z after 30 days. Get it done, then I’ll feel a lot more confident in our team.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Hell no.
I hope we don’t buyout Z and just let him expire if we were to trade for him. I’m not giving Cleveland any freebies.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
Agree.
If we are going to get Z then might as well use him. Especially looking at our current front court depth. Z would complement our front court players perfectly on the offensive end being able to shoot from the outside and leaving Biedrins, Randolph and Turiaf being able to be closer to the basket.
At the end of the season he’s gone and then, maybe, we use the cap space.
Right. Exactly the reasons Cleveland is not making the deal unless they know they can get Big Z (or Turiaf) back.
There will be no extra point!
I think Hickson is a pipe dream at this point.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
cleveland will give us cash
cohan will gladly bend over
If we don’t give them a “freebie” then they don’t make the deal. If we got Jack’s money off the books at the end of the year AND got JJ Hickson I’d say they are the ones giving US a freebie.
Thing A
+1
As a matter of fact, even if we DID agree to waive Z, I think they still wouldn’t do it… it just leaves them too thin in the frontcourt for the month that Z’s gone. All they’d have at the four and five would be Varejao, Shaq (who they don’t want to overload with minutes early) and two guys they really don’t seem to see much in. I know they’ve been having success with Lebron at the four here and there… still, I don’t think we could realistically nab Hickson as well as Z.
yea but...
we’d get criticized for it imo. And I don’t think Cohan/Rowell would want the added scrutiny from the media talking heads.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
I'm going to rec you for your optimism
and because you usually write a high quality opinion. But to me, it doesn’t make me feel any better about that Suns loss. Though we may have a bunch of guys who can play, it won’t comfort me until they demonstrate that they are “on the same page”, as the old but true cliche goes. They need to show that they understand each other, trust each other, and run plays for each other. Understandably, this will take time, patience, and communication amongst the players. Also understandably, this wlll be hard considering Jack might or might not be here, and having a question mark hanging over the team’s head makes developing team chemistry all that much harder.
The Warriors practiced yesterday, today, and presumably tomorrow, so they’ve put the loss behind them. As a fan, I’m still sitting on that loss until Wed. Argh.
Though we may have a bunch of guys who can play, it won’t comfort me until they demonstrate that they are "on the same page", as the old but true cliche goes. They need to show that they understand each other, trust each other, and run plays for each other.
All very true. But really, there are only three guys who have played selfishly thus far (I’d call Randolph’s play more “spastic” than “selfish”), and I’m only worried about one of them.
Jack has played selfishly, but we’re actively shopping the guy… his attitude won’t matter for long.
Corey Maggette has played selfishly, but not because he doesn’t trust the young guys… he has played selfishly because he is Corey Maggette. You could put Maggette on a court with Jordan, Lebron, Joe Montana and Jesus, and he still wouldn’t pass. We don’t need him to pass; we just need him to shoot better, and to make Azubuike the smallball power forward instead of him.
Monta… okay, I’m a little worried about Monta. I don’t know if it’s that he trusts the veterans more or simply that he’s got himself so mixed up trying to be a playmaker that he’s having trouble finding anybody… either way, our offense suffers when he tries to be the decision-maker. The sooner he realizes he’s a shooting guard, the better off we’ll be. When he’ll realize that, it’s hard to say.
Still and all, though, the only chemistry question mark I can see going forward is Monta. And since he knows the attached the franchise already is to Curry, I’m guessing he’ll settle down and defer to the guy sometime within the next couple weeks.
the only chemistry question mark I can see going forward is Monta. And since he knows the attached the franchise already is to Curry, I’m guessing he’ll settle down and defer to the guy sometime within the next couple weeks.
Deferring to Curr-bury won’t make him any bigger, management shoulda know this when they drafted him? Montay has proven his worth here while Curr-bury is the unknown so I’d call him the trouble with the chemistry not Montay?
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 2, 2009 8:33 PM PST up reply actions
Via Geoff Lepper, a promising comment from Nellie about the smallball power forward position:
Azubuike’s 3-point shooting — he was fourth in the league at 44.8 percent, just a couple points less than league-leading teammate Anthony Morrow (46.7) — has been noticeably absent for the Warriors to this point. That range could make the Warriors more effective at squeezing the most out of a mismatch at power forward; Nelson had been hoping for a scoring advantage there from Corey Maggette, but he has been off-target from 16 feet and farther.
"We just need either an extender or a guy that can pass," Nelson said. "So with Buke in the lineup, that extends the defense even more and I think there’ll be more openings offensively. I thought that was important for us to do."
Nellie’s actually referring to having Jack at the four and ‘Buike at the three, as opposed to the other way around. But either configuration is a whole lot better than having Maggette at the four. As Nellie notes, Maggette doesn’t do a lot of things that regular power forwards don’t do, so we don’t get any benefits out of that mismatch.
Nellie says a lot of things that he goes back on, of course. But I find this comment very encouraging; he seems to be getting why Maggette at the four is a bad idea.
It's still to early to give up on this season, even after two disappointing losses.
After hearing about our third lineup in three games, I’m starting to wonder if the rotation fluidity is negatively affecting our players.
On the other hand I think if we really want to fix our chemistry issues we need to:
A. Dump Jack.
B. Keep Maggette at the 3. He’s a terrible small ball 4 thus far. I’d rather see Kaz.
C. Set a starting 5, and stick with it. Let everyone know their roles so that no one tries to do too much. It seems like everyone on our team wants to be “the man” on offense.
One Good Think I’m Looking Forward To
1. Cohan selling.
2. Public tar and feathering of Robert Rowell.
3. Exiling Nellie back to Maui. Aloha and Mahalo for your time here.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
Lost me at 4
I think Nelson looks the most unfocused/uninterested I’ve ever seen him. And as far as putting the best line up on the floor, I haven’t seen that yet either.
And for Caoxing smart play out of Randolph
He’s almost completely regressed to his fragile rookie mindstate, playing even more scattered and scared
Nellie certainly looks uninterested, but then he always does. As for “best lineup”, I’m not even sure what I think our best current lineup is, and Randolph’s injury/spazziness has muddied that picture besides. Nellie has been finding minutes for all of the players that merit them (okay, maybe CJ deserves a few more) and has benched the guys that don’t; I’m fine with the tough love towards Randolph. There’s been too much Jack, but we knew that was coming, and there’s an argument that it’s worth showcasing Jack right now even if it makes us worse in the short term.
I am leery of Nellie’s bad habits creeping back in, and if Maggette’s getting consistent minutes at the four a month from now, I’ll be the first to hate on it. But thus far, it seems like Nellie is engaged and trying to figure out what works. And we’re a (rare) horrible Corey Maggette shooting night away from being 1-1. I’ll give Nellie the benefit of the doubt for now.
That's all definitley fair,
But if he puts Maggs at the 4 gaurding Zach Randolph on wed, I will feel comfortable in saying he has lost his mind…..
That’s where Nellie is so Bleeping frustrating. Maggette has played horribly thus far and yet he’s been getting more minutes than Randolph? He may be hurt, but he’s still getting the jerk around by Nelson.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
I wouldn’t disagree that Nellie jerks some players around… last year it got to a comical level, with guys going from the starting lineup one night to out of the rotation entirely the next. It’s not ideal, and I agree that it’d be good if we could settle into a consistent lineup soon (although you could argue there’s not much point until Jack’s dealt).
Having said that, the one player on whom Nellie deserves the benefit of the doubt is Randolph. Randolph’s improvement in the second half of last season was astonishing, and while Randolph of course deserves a ton of credit for that, Nellie does too, for making it clear to him that smart big-man play was the only way to earn minutes. In his enthusiasm to start the year, Randolph seems to have forgotten that lesson. I have no beef whatsoever with Nellie reminding him of it.
I guess I should give him the benefit of the doubt that what he is doing is what is best for the team. But it has all the familiar symptoms of the suckiness that has been the Warriors the past few years.
It’s just ridiculous sometimes why some players don’t play. Like all those DNP-CD’s Wright got when he was perfectly healthy his rookie year. We had no one as our backup 4. If Randolph isn’t playing consistent, meaningful minutes by January, I want blood.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
No arguments here. In a way, Nellie’s consistent handling of Randolph is itself inconsistent with his inconsistent handling of other players. It’s not like Wright ever clear guidance as to how to get minutes… if I were him, I’d have been annoyed when Randolph did.
Really, though, a lot of these headaches go away when Jack leaves. Fewer bad vibes, and 35-38 more minutes to spread around, will do this team some good.
But do you have faith at this point to say that those 35-38 minutes would go to Cj Watson/Kaz/Maggette or Wright/Randolph?
I’m hoping for the latter but expecting the former to happen if/when jack leaves.
I think a lot of coaches would at this point try to play lineups of Randolph/Wright/Biedrins. But I don’t think Nelson would ever try that lineup. Maybe not deservedly so but Randolph is a talent that needs to be on the court. . Brandan is really really talented too. He’s unfortunately been injured. But I have faith that he’ll return and still be a really really good player. He’s he’s a PF in every way and should stay there with Biedrins at the C. Biedrins will only justify his starting status IMO if he can dominate on the boards. But he’s always active. anyways, thanks for the rant.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
But do you have faith at this point to say that those 35-38 minutes would go to Cj Watson/Kaz/Maggette or Wright/Randolph?
I think they’d go to ‘Buike, Morrow, Maggette and Randolph, in that order, only because I think Maggette and Randolph will already be getting biggish minutes and ’Buike and Morrow might not. The minutes will be there for Randolph when he starts playing smartly again. As for Wright, I’ve pretty much given up hope. Nellie sure was talking him up big during the preseason, but he’s never given him a fair shake, and I don’t think Nellie will ever want to pair Biedrins and Wright much, as neither is a shooter. Wright will probably have to go elsewhere to get a real shot.
I don’t think Nellie’s married to smallball, so much as he’s overly fond of certain types of players (Jack, Crawford last year) and overly dismissive of other types (Wright, to some degree Biedrins). But I think we have a chance of succeeding despite his biases. He can’t overplay Jack if Jack’s not a Warrior, and he seems to like Randolph well enough, despite his poor jump shooting. The big man’s disappointed me before, but I think his lineups will make some sense once Randolph’s clicking and Jack’s gone.
Maggette has played horribly thus far and yet he’s been getting more minutes than Randolph?
Small.Sample.Size.
Maggette has 9 more minutes played than Randolph. Given that there was some question about Randolph’s health going into the opener and given that the team really did not perform well in the short stretch where he was in against Houston, the difference in minutes so far doesn’t really mean much. In the next game, where neither played particularly well, Randolph played more. Jumping to the conclusion that somehow Nellie is making a catastrophic error of judgment at this point is reading more than tiny bit into the data.
Randolph played in the garbage minutes in the next game.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Perhaps you should elaborate with more than a single sentence if you’re trying to make a point, LostHawk. Are you saying that this is some indication of an error in Nellie’s judgment? There were a whole lot of ‘garbage minutes’ in that game. Someone had to play them. Do you think Randolph should have been sitting? That those minutes don’t count? Please do tell.
by jae on Nov 3, 2009 1:05 PM PST up reply actions
well jae...
You’re talking to a Raider fan who has had to watch Jamarcus suck every sunday. I’m a little quick right now to yank inefficient players. I believe Maggette’s first two games are an aberration to his career stats. But the dude was so bad to watch for a few whole quarters. Give me some Randolph at some point.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
Raiders? How can you cheer for a team from Los Angeles?
by jae on Nov 3, 2009 9:59 PM PST up reply actions
+1
We have had to have patience to watch Russell and the Raiders for this long. And we have been very patient with our teams but Maggs is a vet who is almost 30. He will not learn anything new and will bring us down.
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
Have you been watching the games
I’ve never seen a team play such selfish ball. Horrible defense and WAY too many turnovers. This season’s been pretty depressing, and we’re only two games in.
by Number22Drew on Nov 2, 2009 5:58 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I have, indeed, been watching the games. And I have a question for you: did you watch LAST season? Because if you don’t like selfishness, horrible defense and turnovers, ‘09-’10 doesn’t hold a candle to ‘08-’09.
I’m not saying we should be satisfied with a team that’s only slightly better than last year’s… last year’s team was a nightmare. But we’ve played two games. In one game, we played fairly well against an above-average team and lost… in the other, we played horribly against an above-average team and lost. It’s disappointing. It’s not that big a deal.
The Rockets seem to have snuck up on a lot of teams thus far.
Adelman’s doing a great job there.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
Adelman is a good coach and he’ll be hailed as a genius if the Rockets continue to do well. The appear to be completely depleted, largely because they have no players who fit the classic definition of ‘star’ (read: score a bunch of points). The reality is that there success wouldn’t be entirely unpredictable. They have a good collection of players who do many of the lightly regarded but in reality extremely important things that go towards winning basketball games. They’re taking the “moneyball” road to it, and it won’t get them a championship — it may not even be good enough to crack the playoffs — but it could be very interesting to see how the hype-infatuated fans (and I put most sportswriters in this class) try to explain the success. Most. I suspect, will look at the leading scorer on the team, whomever he may be and however he may actually score, talk about how he ‘stepped up’ and then give Adelman the genius nomination.
Have you been drinking?
The reality is that there success wouldn’t be entirely unpredictable.
Most. I suspect, will look at the leading scorer on the team…
Or are you just so irate over kennote’s posts that you can’t control yourself?
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 3, 2009 6:00 PM PST up reply actions
those quotes sound about right to me.
that roster is not as bad as people have been saying, even without t-mac and yao. i’d say that calling success from them “not entirely unpredicable” isn’t a crazy thing to say at all. they defend, rebound and pass well. they don’t have a dominant scorer, but everyone can make shots and they’re generally very efficient.
as for the leading scorer comment, it’s pretty fair to say that picking out the guy who scores the most points for that team and lauding their supposed greatness will be the easiest media story available and is likely to be used.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I didn’t expect them to be bad. But I certainly didn’t expect them to beat Portland at home after getting blown out by them on opening night. Nor did I expect them to win against Utah. Scola isn’t just schooling our guys, he’s balling right now. Brooks is also for effective than he’s been before. Although that might just be because he’s given the keys and the PT. Whatever it is, good stuff.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
Actually they didn’t really get blown out on opening night. I bet a lot of casual fans couldn’t tell you the name of a Rocket player outside of T-Mac and Yao.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
Look at the grammar & punctuation, not the content.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 3, 2009 9:00 PM PST up reply actions
Hint
I don’t feel like making a there/their joke.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 3, 2009 9:00 PM PST up reply actions
Disagree from point 3-5
you must be crazy on 3 -5!!!!!!!!!
Really dude??
Ok I’ll give you the first two but you have to be smoking on the rest of what you wrote. Please tell me you have been a fan since before the “we believe” team. The long term warrior fans that I know are absolutely disgusted with this team.
First of all Andris is looking like a straight p*ss out there man. I mean everyone he matches up against owns him. Did you see how Andris cant even hold a screen for Morrow for that last pay the first game?? Dude let Battier just run right through him. Of course Amare’s eyes light up when he goes 1 on 1 with him. Before I said he was a piece we should keep but now I could care less.
Nellie is just an old fool. He wants to get his 24 wins and call it a day. I really wouldnt be surprised if he actually stepped down after he gets his record…and to tell you the truth that would be a blessing for the team.
Jackson is trash as well as the blackhole called maggette. As of right now best warriors can do is to see if the cavs struggle and get desperate enough to cave in to trading Z other then that we are stuck.
You wanna know what I see? I see a team with bafoons in the front office. I see a coach who has never heard the word defense. I see 3 guys who look like they just wanna put up numbers (ME, SJ, CM). I see a team that me and 4 locals on my block can score on. I see a “potential” star in AR that will never get the consistant PT to reailze that potential…until he gets signed or traded somewhere else of course. I see an offense where 90 percent of it is 1 on 1. I see an owner who knows he can put “potential” out on the court and everyone will still come. I see at least 15 thousand fans who dont know any better. I see a team that will not have double digit road wins. I thought I used to see 35-40 wins for this current team but now I see 27 if lucky.
You’ve lost interest in Andris based on 2 games? Come on, man.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 2, 2009 6:59 PM PST up reply actions
Please tell me you have been a fan since before the "we believe" team.
You’re right that I got here via the bandwagon, but you’ve got the wrong bandwagon. I became a full-fledged, till-death Warriors fan when we drafted (well, technically traded for) Webber. And it obviously hasn’t panned out too well for me, nor any of us.
The long term warrior fans that I know are absolutely disgusted with this team.
Many of the long-term fans I know feel the same, but not all do. It’s a matter of perspective.
From one perspective, this franchise is an abomination, rotten to the core, with dumb ownership and management that doesn’t deserve its fanbase. Every new losing season is like a slap in the face to loyalists like us, and dredges up years, if not decades, of disappointment. This is a completely valid perspective.
My perspective is a bit narrower. I try not to spend time thinking the ineptitude in the office or the miseries of years past; I just really want to focus on the young guys on our team, because I really, really like them. They’re likeable, they’re fun to watch, and it’s not their fault that Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell are idiots or that Nellie and Webber fought fifteen years ago or that we traded Timmy and Gatling for Kevin Willis and Bimbo or that we drafted Todd Fuller over Kobe BryOH GOD ITS THE SPIDERS OH DEAR GOD NOT THE SPIDERS
Point is, if you forget about all the nonsense, we have a fun young core here. We’ve spent so much time praying that turkeys like Marc Jackson and Larry Hughes would turn into studs that we almost forget what genuinely decent young players look like. But check it out! We’ve got
1) a 21-year-old point guard who can pass and shoot and play at least some defense;
2) a 24-year-old shooting guard who’s a brilliant scorer and, when motivated, contributes at least a bit everywhere else;
3) two swingmen, 24 and 25, who finished in the top five in the NBA at three-point-shooting, already rate as average players for their position and are both still visibly improving;
4) a 20-year-old power forward who’s already an elite rebounder and has genuine star potential; and
5) a 23-year-old center who’s an elite rebounder and is one of the most efficient scorers in the league.
I didn’t even include Brandan Wright. And my dogs know I LOVE me some Brandan Wright.
What will all this young talent mean for us? Hard to say. Could be nothing — it’s possible we never get so much as one playoff appearance out of this crew. There are flaws aplenty. Curry’s wee and has yet to shoot well in an NBA game. Monta can’t defend the best players at his position. Morrow and ‘Buike may never become versatile enough to get their own shots consistently. Randolph runs around like a chicken with its head cut off sometimes. Biedrins has trouble defending heavier players and hitting the rim from the line. And of course, some of these guys could get worse, or get injured, or get traded away. There are no guarantees here whatsoever. I don’t think we’ll make the playoffs this year, and unless we really shake things up (trade for a star, hire Tom Thibodeau), I don’t know that we’ll make the playoffs next year, either.
But if you’re only feeling anger and resentment and disappointment… as justified as all of those emotions are, you’re really missing out. We have the most genuinely promising collection of young talent we’ve had in my fifteen years of Warrior fandom, and one of the most entertaining collections of young talent in the entire NBA. Watching them, I could care less about Cohan and Rowell. Fun basketball is more powerful than bad management. Cohan and Rowell were here for for “We Believe”, too… their presence didn’t stop that from happening, and it didn’t make that experience any less awesome. This team certainly isn’t as good as that team, but they’re young… they could get there. I’d rather enjoy watching them get there than be angry that they can’t get us back to the playoffs right away. I don’t need Kelenna Azubuike to make up for fifteen years of misery; I’m just enjoying watching Kelenna Azubuike be Kelenna Azubuike.
by onlxn on Nov 2, 2009 10:16 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
From one perspective, this franchise is an abomination, rotten to the core, with dumb ownership and management that doesn’t deserve its fanbase. Every new losing season is like a slap in the face to loyalists like us, and dredges up years, if not decades, of disappointment. This is a completely valid perspective.
We should put this on a billboard across the 880.
I try to focus on the good about our team, but it is hard sometimes. I honestly worry about our young players because of the “braintrust” around them. Cohan and Rowell will find a way to mess this up. Nelson will screw with Randolph/Wright so much they’ll be hollering to get out of here. I hope I’m not predicting the future but damn, I do not trust these old farts.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
We are all tired us this
I mean i’m gonna be a GSW fan for life but i’m sick of the drama and losing. My high school team plays better team basketball and defense then the dubs. I mean it’s hard not to be mad at this organization because there are so many things to be mad at so i tend to look at the bright side more often and who knows if that bright side becomes real. WE do have alot of talent and potential on this roster, any real Warrior fan knows this but we need to put all of our talent and work on our weaknessess if we ever want to taste sucess. We need to get rid of Cohan and Rowell first(Ellison buys the team) and then just blow up this whole roster for cap room except(Randolph, Curry, Andris, Ronny, Morrow, Bukie, and Wright) I’m ok with Nellie but soon we need to get rid of him also and get some defense in this team. I feel Larry Riley is an intelligent guy who knows basketball so he can stay as our GM.I love this team, but i know we will never be on the right track to sucess until we take big steps.
Golden State Warriors Fan 4 Life!!!
The Golden Future
PF: Anthony Randolph
PG: Stephen Curry
Can't wait until GS wins a championship!!!
There’s a lot of interesting pieces in place for this team. Ditching Jack would be nice for all the obvious reasons and if we can do that, there’s a lot to get excited about on this roster.
Yeah, Maggette’s a ballhog, but he’s a good scorer. That hasn’t changed. He’ll get it going soon enough. He always does. Monta hasn’t looked terrible and he’s still learning how to play with Curry out there. Those two and Jack seem to be everyone’s biggest problems with this roster, but really, I think just shipping Jack out would give us a lot less to get worked up about. It’s crazy how Jack went from “potential locker room cancer” to “cancerous to anyone who watches the team”.
I like this team. The roster needs a shakeup to get the team to be a real threat, but step off the ledge, people. Things aren’t that bleak.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I would like Biedrins to at least develop some damn post moves.
Yeah, I appreciate his rebounding, but holy crap this kid needs to contribute in the post without relying on someone to give him a perfect pass for a layup.
He can’t make a shot outside 3 feet. At least have a range of about 5 feet so our offense can be more better. Our guards keep chucking up shots because they can’t rely on our big men like Biedrins to score and take pressure off of them. Biedrins is great on a pick and roll, but it would be nice to be able to pass it to him down low and let him do his work.
If he can develop into a threat in the post, he can draw double teams which could open up space for our shooters in the perimeter.
Formerly known as Five Ten Entertainment.
by Precise Films Productions on Nov 2, 2009 8:28 PM PST reply actions
Buike can't opt out
He signed a 3 year, 9 million $ deal. This is the second year of that deal….am i missing something.
Marco Belinelli's Biggest Fan
From what I hear, Buike has an option to opt out of the third and final year of his contract. Dunno if that means if he’s an Unrestricted Free Agent or not though.
by WYK on Nov 2, 2009 8:56 PM PST up reply actions
No they don’t. See also: Azubuike, last time.
by Sham-onnnnnnnnnnna on Nov 6, 2009 1:01 PM PST up reply actions
Sorry. Opt outs almost always make someone an unrestricted free agent since restricted free agency is only allowed following either a rookie 1st round contract, where player options are not permitted or in a player’s first 3 years in the league. The circumstance that can allow someone to opt out into restricted free agency is a rookie second round pick or undrafted player who gets a 2 or 3 year contract to start with a player option for the final year.
by jae on Nov 6, 2009 3:59 PM PST up reply actions
Both Storytellers and ShamSports have the 3rd year as a player option
Neither is gospel, but both are very good.
Just a few thoughts: First of all, we only lost to the Rockets by 1 point. They just handed the Jazz their @$$ on a silver platter in Utah. They’ve been playing extremely well so far. To lose by 1 to them should give us hope of being a .500ish team on at least some nights. The Suns game, we have no good excuse. That was pathetic. We all know that things change from game to game. We played fairly well against the Rockets, really. We SUCKED against the Suns. Not sure what to make of that yet other than that we might expect some inconsistency from this team.
As far as Jackson being traded, I really think the Hornets have looked bad so far and really need help. I’m very interested in seeing what they’re offering. I think Cleveland would love to have Jack, too.
As far as our team being promising at every position, I disagree:
At the 1, we have great upside with Curry. No question. So happy with our prospects there.
At the 2, Monta is good but too small for our club. If we could move him to a team with a big 1, who would really value him, like the Jazz or the Kings, he’d really shine. He’s a defensive liability with us, though. Morrow is good. Still, not athletic enough to be great. Wish we had a recovering T-Mac, which would give Morrow time to play this year and give us a big 2 by the end of the year. But keeping Monta and letting him get some notoriety and some stardom could pave the way for a big trade next year. Plus, he’s fantastic on offense, when he gets going. If/when we trade him, we’d better get something really good. Not sure what 2 I want, other than D-Wade. ha ha (Maybe Hamilton).
At the 3, Azubuike will never be great. He’s good, though. I am very happy to have him.
At the 4, between Wright and Randolph, our future looks great.
At the 5, Biedrins is actually pretty great. He may develop enough strength and weight to keep big boys out of the paint some day, too. He may also develop a decent free throw. I am quite happy with our 5 and happy with Turiaf as a solid backup. No complaints here.
So, our first two games tell us we’re good and not good. Jackson’s chances of being moved are kind of exciting, actually. Lastly, our team has a bright future at the 1 and the 4… maybe the 5.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
Monta >>>> Rip
Don’t worry about that. Curry needs to gain 5 – 10 lbs. and put on some muscle. By next year him and Ellis will be a great back court. Curry once he gets stronger will be a GREAT defender and when Monta has it going he gets very scrappy, he gets a lot of steals and rebounds. He actually is not as bad as people think he is, he’s just small. If he was 6’5 215 he would be a very good defender.
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
Curry needs to gain 5 – 10 lbs. and put on some muscle.
If I had a nickel for every time somebody said that… I’d have a ishload of nickels. What’s with the infatuation with bulk? I’m not entirely sure I get it.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 3, 2009 7:09 PM PST up reply actions
What’s with the infatuation with bulk? I’m not entirely sure I get it.
Boom Dizzle envy
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 3, 2009 8:36 PM PST up reply actions
If Curry was stronger he would be *very* good
If he stays skinny he won’t be able to guard the better point guards in the league. If he can get stronger he would be one of the better defending Points in the league. Rondo put on muscle, so did Paul and so did Parker etc.
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
In all sports
You need to be at an ideal weight for yourself to be able to perform at the peak of your abilities. Some guys improve by adding weight, some guys do not. It’s stupid to assume that “adding 5-10 pounds of muscle” will instantly improve everybody’s game.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 4, 2009 8:44 AM PST up reply actions
Some guys improve by adding weight, some guys do not.
Can you (or anyone else) think of a player who was less than effective while thin who became substantially more effective by “bulking up”? I know I’ve asked this before when people have fantasized about so and so “bulking up” but I’ve not yet heard an example beyond jokes about Barry Bonds. We’re not even talking anecdotal evidence in basketball.
Seriously, can anyone think of anyone?
by jae on Nov 4, 2009 9:09 AM PST up reply actions
KG?
Amare? Howard?
Now, this is an issue for two reasons:
1. How much was “bulking up” and how much was “filling out his teenage body?”
Can’t tell. Probably more latter than former, but it’s not impossible to rule it out.
2. How much of the improvement was due to muscular gain and how much was due to a natural progression of ability?
Again, can’t tell. Probably more latter than former, but it’s not impossible to rule it out.
So we’ve got two tests the “muscle addition” have to pass, neither of which is very provable, and neither of which cannot be more easily explained by far more well known facts (teenagers are still growing and they learn a lot). I think I heard something about some guy’s razor as it relates to this, but I can’t really see what shaving has to do with logic.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 4, 2009 10:30 AM PST up reply actions
That being said
There’s certainly evidence in other sports, specifically American football, where guys deliberately add muscle to help keep their bodies from wearing down. Does it work? Probably a little, but it always changes their game. They get stronger, but slower. Does that make them better? Some yes, most no.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Nov 4, 2009 10:35 AM PST up reply actions
Can you (or anyone else) think of a player who was less than effective while thin who became substantially more effective by "bulking up"?
I hear this guy has a pretty mean post game down at his local park. Of course the other guys there are a little scared to call offensive fouls…
Thing 2
Wait, isn't he fighting the Hulk later?
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
Michael Jordan’s trainers suggested he bulk up. He did so, which allowed him, according to him, to absorb more punishment as well as post up. Wilt Chamberlain also worked on his body to allow him to hold up to the beatings he got underneath the basket.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
Again, I am not arguing that adding muscle does not help. I am not arguing that players not put in the physical conditioning. But both cases you cite are players who were ridiculously effective already. Jordan was the among the best players in college ball and was, from more or less day one in the pros among the best pros in the game. Ditto for Wilt. Neither went from less than effective to effective due to bulking up.
The orginal question again:
"Can you (or anyone else) think of a player who was less than effective while thin who became substantially more effective by “bulking up”?"
It just seems that there are so many voices who talk about how all needs to do to become effective is to bulk up, add some muscle. It appears that it can make effective players either more effective or more durable, but I can’t think of a player who wasn’t terribly effective who became effective through ‘bulking up.’ I don’t think it’s a bad idea for Curry to try to acquire some muscle to help his durability, but whether or not he’s going to be a good player or not is, I suspect, not going to be a product of whether or not he can “bulk up.”
by jae on Nov 5, 2009 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t know. They’re both point guard height. A tall, defensive minded 2 is more valuable than people think. Hamilton is a solid defender of 2s and a former all-star. He’d complement our team better than Monta, IMO.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
Baron at Monta were short
But Baron was strong, that’s why I think if Curry got stronger they would work. Not as big as Baron but just stronger. Rip would be nice but Monta is 24 and right now he is an all star caliber scorer. Imagine what he will be like in a year or two. Wouldn’t you want to keep that here? A long with Curry and AR 2 years from now? That big 3 will be scary.
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
OMGSEASONZOVERFIREROWELLLARRYELLISON
I think I’m going to get this tatooed on my neck a la Matt Barnes
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Nice post onixn
On a different subject, I read some of ex-ref Donaughy’s (sp?) expose. True, or solid BS, it’s made me think. I’ve always thought the ref’s have been very favorable to Maggette whenever he drives to the basket, but not so far this year. Damn, if they got together and decided to NOT call the touch fouls on him this year, his game is screwed. And the Dubs lose game one by a point. Just thinkin’.
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