I should say THIS year they’d be somewhere around a 5 to 7 seed in west… Lakers, San antonio, Denver are all superior. Portland, Utah, Dallas are probably better because of continuity.

However this team has a great propensity to keep developing. I look at Boston with Ray Allen still performing at 34 and see no reason Rip can’t be similar. More so with the wing depth you would’nt have to play 40 mins per game.

More so, Bosh will get better, Biedrins will get better and Curry will get A LOT better. My point is we’d have a team that can make noise now, and has propensity (depending on where Curry ends up long term) to be even better…

Jack, i simply see as untradeable for value. I wanted to move Maggette too but i just saw no realistic permutation for either to get us better (as much as d.lee 4 Maggette works in trade machine, lol I don’t see Donnie Walsh saying yes…)

As for Rip. I won’t like I am personally a huge fan. His contract is long (4 years). but what he’d bring mentally as a PROVEN winner, a gritty defender, a leader on and off the court may outweigh it. Point being, i think alot of our players could learn ALOT from a guy like Rip

And remember: Bosh isn’t all that.

Bosh is a lot closer to “all that” than not. Win Shares pegged him as the 16th-best player in the league last year; WARP pegged him as the 11th. Neither ranking was a fluke for him. By all accounts, he’s been one of the 15-20 best players in the league for each of the past four years. And let’s remember, that’s his floor. At 25, it’s not impossible that he’ll improve, and indeed this year he’s added muscle and has some eye-popping rebounding numbers so far. That may well be a fluke; still, he’s more likely to get better than he is to get worse.

Conversely, let’s look at the guys we’d be trading. I love Monta, but Monta is a guy who’s only had one really good season, and given the skill set he seems to have — inadequate point guard skills, inadequate size to defend bigger twos, no three-point stroke — I’m not sure how he could be expected to ever do better than that season. And even that season was not nearly as valuable as any of Bosh’s last four. I know you acknowledge that Bosh is the best player in the deal, but it’s worth emphasizing just how much better than Monta he really is. Bosh plays a much more important position, plays it much better than Monta plays his, and has shown a consistency and reliability that Monta hasn’t. There’s a huge chasm between the two in value.

Is Randolph’s potential enough to bridge that chasm? Maybe. Randolph could be really, really good, and he probably has more defensive potential than Bosh. On the other hand, expecting him to ever equal Bosh’s offensive production is probably not realistic. He’s shown no real tendency to score efficiently at any level, and we can compare him to Lamar Odom all we like, but Odom was an elite-passing big man from the first moment he stepped onto an NBA court; Randolph was, to put it charitably, not. I think Randolph’s best-case scenario is that he becomes about as valuable as Bosh… better on defense, worse on offense, about as valuable overall. I can’t see a strong case for Randolph reaching the Tim Duncan tier of bigs; Bosh is probably his absolute ceilling.

Still, if there’s a good chance he’ll become Chris Bosh, we shouldn’t make the trade; no sense in trading Chris Bosh and Monta for Chris Bosh. So it’s just a question of how likely we think Randolph is to reach his potential. I have no idea, and probably even the front office has no idea. He’s a hard guy to read. But you have to at least understand the temptation to avoid gambling on Randolph, if you could get a stud by trading him. Between his frequent boneheaded play and his frail physique, there are definitely a lot of ways in which Randolph might not pan out.

Toronto hasn’t exactly accomplished anything with him as their best player – they’ve had one winning season!

It’s true… Bosh’s résumé, in terms of winning, is not impressive. He was the best player on a 47-win team and the best player on a 41-win team… other than that, his teams have stunk. That ain’t exactly setting the world on fire.

But we’re not talking about trading Bosh for proven winners; we’re talking about trading him for Monta and Randolph. Monta was the fourth-best player on a 42-win team and the third-best player on a 48-win team… other than that, his teams have stunk. And Anthony Randolph hasn’t even won in high school, let alone college or the pros. However Bosh’s winning credentials may be, they’re infinitely more impressive than those of the guys we’d be trading for him, and that’s with some of the worst supporting casts you can imagine.

Therefore, I have a hard time believing that Bosh is the key to turning things around for a struggling franchise.

Would he single-handedly take us to the Conference Finals? Probably not… he has not, to this point, been that level of player (although I do think the supporting cast here would be better than many he’s had in Toronto). But if we refuse to trade our guys until we can get better winners than Bosh in return, we’re going to wait until the sun burns out. All we have to offer are warty guys that play on a crappy team. That’s never gonna net someone better than Bosh.

Would Bosh help, at least in the short term? No question. In terms of playing time, this trade would upgrade Anthony Randolph into Chris Bosh, and downgrade Monta Ellis into Anthony Morrow and Kelenna Azubuike. The upgrade is vastly bigger than the downgrade, unless Randolph magically puts it all together all of a sudden. And he seems to be getting farther away from doing that, rather than closer.

Again, it’d only remotely make sense if Bosh would agree to extend here, which he most likely wouldn’t. But if he would, there’s a strong argument for that trade, at the very least. It’d be a gamble, but relying on Monta and Randolph to lead us to success is a pretty big gamble, too.

he better not see more than 10 mins a game @4

you’ve just exceeded SBnations limit on the use of the word “permutation” for one thread.

I will admit, first off resigning Bosh is a must. The theory is if we do it, have a good time and he likes it he’ll resign.

But I think eventually it’d make us title contenders. I think this season we’d be a 6 to 8 seed. I also think as bosh matures in 2 years is 27 (with duncan being 34, dirk being 33, gasol 31) he may be dominant PF in NBA.

With the maturing of Curry we could have 1 of best PG/PF duos. Curry may never be deron williams or cp3 BUT Bosh will be better than millsap and West.

There is no trade we could possibly make that will make us a contender this year. My point is this trade would make us better now AND long term. Bosh may be 5 years older than randolph, but i don’t see randolph ever being as BOSH good