Bow to the Jeremy Lin Movement (b-o-w = Based On What?)
Here on GSoM we have had The Yi Movement, The Singh Movement, The MingMing Movement, and The Sun Yue Movement.
There is nothing wrong with rooting for someone of your own ethnicity, especially when there aren't many of them playing in the top league of the game you love, and when we live in arguably the most diverse region on the planet here in the Bay Area.
However, up until this point there really has not been a plethora of highlights with the appropriate context to base these movements on. YouTube had highlights of Yi Jianlian playing in China and ESPN had video of his pre-draft workout, albeit with no one else but a trainer on the floor. That's a lot more than we had for Singh, Ming Ming, and Sun combined!
This time we have someone legit. Someone who is performing at the NCAA Division-I level. Someone who is consistently dropping impressive numbers and highlights on ranked, big-time college programs such as UConn and Boston College. And like so many of you, his parents are immigrants and he grew up here in the Bay Area. His name is Jeremy Lin and with that, I present to you...
"Based On What?"
I've been following Jeremy Lin's progress since the beginning of last season when he was a junior at Harvard, and the four eye-popping stats I'm about to tell you have not been written about by any other observer, ever. If you know the story of how Jeremy led Palo Alto to California's high school state championship, then you know that Jeremy has that je ne sais quois. I will now reveal what makes him the special player that he is...
Eye-popping stat #4: He is among the nation's leaders in dunks
I wrote about this before, but it was buried in my preview of the UConn game, which I dubbed David vs Goliath II, in his head-to-head matchup with UConn's star guard and projected NBA 2nd-round pick, Jerome Dyson. Jeremy is amongst the nation's leaders in dunks for guards.
Here is a preliminary sampling of comparables, through 12/14/2009:
- Cal's Patrick Christopher: 7 dunks in 9 games played.
- Ohio State's Evan Turner, who could be considered a small forward and who is now out for 8 weeks with an injury: 5 dunks in 8 games played.
- Willie Warren of Oklahoma State, who is also a combo guard considered the next-best point guard NBA draft pick (a definite lottery pick): 1 dunk in 9 games played.
- John Wall of Kentucky, the consensus #1 NBA Draft pick for 2010: a super-human 14 dunks in 9 games played.
- Xavier Henry of Kansas, a tall shooting guard on the #1-ranked team in the NCAA: 8 dunks in 9 games played.
- UConn's Jerome Dyson, who is projected to be picked in the 2nd round: 5 dunks in 8 games played.
Jeremy Lin has 7 dunks in 9 games played! I have been one of the privileged few to witness an Asian man be the most athletic player on an NCAA Division-I basketball court. Here's his second dunk in the game against 13th-ranked UConn...
In the first game of the season against Holy Cross (unfortunately, not televised nor streamed on the Internet), Jeremy had a game-changing two-handed dunk in traffic which was described as...
"Yeah I was in the first row behind the harvard bench. Best dunk i've seen live." -- YouTube user etizzle1
"Up fake, Jab fake left, two dribbles middle, two hand flush in traffic, unreal.. the whole crowd just went WHAT!?" -- Twitter user CoachNags
In last week's victory at Boston College, he had a soaring one-handed dunk attempt in traffic that clanged off back-rim. Facebook user V.Cheah described it as follows...
Oh man! We sat fairly far because the seats were donated to me and the kids I coach. But in the Conte Forum, there honestly isn't a bad seat in the house, the view was excellent.
Anyways it was a transition play where I believe Lin caught the outlet right before half court. He got a second shift in gears when he got inside the 3 point line and started to glide for what looked like a Jordan logo layup. Instead, he just kept on rising haha and he definitely cleared the rim, but I believe the angle was slightly awkward where his wrist couldn't get the ball in. He had like one guy beneath him and one on his back. It would've made top 10 on espn easily if he made it.
Thankfully the UConn game was televised, otherwise 100% of his dunking exploits would still be of legend.
Eye-popping stat #3: He is 4-for-8 in buzzer beaters thus far this season
4-for-8 would be a pretty good stat in the NBA for buzzer-beaters, but remember, the college game only has two halves and, therefore, only two opportunities to perform a buzzer-beater, which makes Jeremy's stats in this category even more impressive. Here they are, one-by-one:
- Floater in the lane at the first half buzzer against Boston College (12/9/2009)
- Three-pointer at the first half buzzer against New Hampshire (11/25/2009)
- Missed three-point attempt at first half buzzer against Army (11/23/2009)
- Three-pointer at the first half buzzer against Bryant (11/20/2009)
- 1-for-3 in buzzer beaters of the famous triple-overtime walk-off vs William & Mary (11/15/2009)
- Missed three-pointer at the first half buzzer against Holy Cross (11/13/2009)
Here is the famous buzzer-beater against William & Mary in its Top Plays Of The Week #3 form on ESPN SportsCenter (#4 was Dwyane Wade!)...
Eye-popping stat #2: In "important" games, he is averaging 14.3 points per 2nd half
I have already written that Mr. Crunch-Time averaged 11.2 points per 2nd half last season. This season, he has actually increased it to 11.4!
I also noticed that his worst 2nd-half outputs have occurred during blowouts, except for one game, in which Army held him to only 6 points total. It came as no surprise to me that the Army coach was an assistant for perennial Ivy League champion Cornell last year. Jeremy had his worst game against Cornell last year. Also, Harvard committed 30 turnovers (8 of them committed by Jeremy), 20 of them by the end of the first half, against Army and Jeremy missed 7 free throws that game.
The following is a list of games and scoring outputs (first half + second half = total points for that game) this year, with the blowout wins crossed out:
- 5+19 = 24, won 87-77 at Holy Cross
- 8+11 = 19, won 87-85 vs William & Mary
8+4 = 12, won 77-51 vs Bryant- 4+2 = 6, lost 53-56 at Army
11+7 = 18, won 78-60 vs New Hampshire- 3+16 = 19, won 78-70 at Boston University
8+6 = 14, won 85-64 vs Rice- 8+22 = 30, lost 73-79 at UConn
- 9+16 = 25, won 74-67 at Boston College
I wish someone could tell me how many points Stephen Curry averaged for Davidson in 2nd halves last season!
Gottlieb wrote in a follow-up article (ESPN Insider account required):
In preparing for my television call of Connecticut's home game against Harvard on Sunday, I asked Penn guard Zack Rosen about the Crimson. His response? "Jeremy Lin, he is their whole team. They have some good young guys inside and all, but Lin takes over games in the second half."
If you watch the following highlight, you'll notice that Jeremy tallied 21 of his 30 total points at UConn with 1:37 remaining. He scored 9 points in 1:37 against #13 UConn (well, actually 11 in the final 1:38!).
As I have written before, the better the competition, the better his teammates, the better he plays, as evidenced most recently by...
- 25 points, including 10-for-12 from the line against Boston College of the mighty ACC, and 17 for his last 20 dating back to the UConn game,
- 30 points, 9 rebounds, 2 blocks against 13th-ranked UConn,
- 27 points, 8 assists, and 6 steals (six!) last year 1/7/2009 against a 17th-ranked Boston College team that had just upset #1 and eventual national champion North Carolina.
It goes without saying that in the NBA, he'll have better competition and better teammates. I saw him in a closed summer scrimmage playing against other high-caliber players (that's all I can say at this point, but details will be revealed sometime next year); Jeremy Lin delivers the ball and is a playmaker. He only scores when he absolutely has to.
Eye-popping stat #1: He is averaging 1.2 blocked shots per (and is a leader in steals)
Again, for guards only, and by the way, it's 1.22 to be exact. Do you even realize how sick 1.22 blocked shots per game for a guard is? Maybe if you look at Dwyane Wade's stats, you'll understand:
That's right, D-Wade is currently at 1.23 blocked shots per game. That's the most for any guard in the NBA. Okay, Wade has already played in 22 games, but then if you are going to discount me on that, then I must ask for it back because an NBA game is 48 minutes compared to the NCAA's 40. Relatively speaking, it wouldn't be a far stretch to say that Jeremy Lin is the Dwyane Wade of the NCAA right now as far as defense is concerned.
It would be a far stretch if I had pulled that out of thin air, right? So, "Based On What?" Based on actual stats and comparison, sir.
Am I really going out on a limb to say that Jeremy is probably the nation's leader in blocked shots for guards, although I have not done the research on the blocked shot leader board to see which of those many names are guards?
As far as steals, we already knew that. He has consistently been up there in this department: 2.1 steals per game as of this writing. Not leading the nation because there are plenty of quick guards out there, but still extremely impressive.
I wonder how many of the nations' steals leaders are as big as Jeremy at 6'3" 200 lbs. Something tells me all the players ahead of him are probably smaller and skinnier (i.e., D-Wade leading the league in steals is even more incredible because he's ahead of smaller and more nimble guys like Brandon Jennings).
Oh, and in case you weren't paying attention, Dwyane Wade is currently averaging 1.7 steals per game in the NBA format.
Show me an NBA GM who wouldn't want defense as part of the investment in a first-round pick, in a 6'3" 200-lb point guard, no less. All this talk about offense, what were the scouting reports pertaining to defense on the 16 point guards taken in the 2009 NBA Draft?
Here are Jeremy's stats averages overall...
In fact, he was the only Division-I player in the nation to finish in the Top 10 in all major offensive and defensive categories last year, to which the UConn TV announcers, among which is the renowned Doug Gottlieb of ESPN, said:
That's unbelievable!
Here's his incredible swat of Jerome Dyson on a fast break...
ASIDE: I actually originally had this eye-popping stat swapped at #1 with the points-per-2nd-half, but when I re-read it and added the Dwyane Wade numbers, I'm back at my favorite aspect of the game: defense which, again, I wrote about at the beginning of the season.
What could go wrong
I hope you have jumped on the bandwagon by now. If not, then you are saying, "Well, Jeremy Lin can't ________."
At that point, you need to ask yourself those three words, "Based on what?"
Still, the road to the NBA could be derailed. Any number of things can happen:
- Knock on wood, but he could get injured, which is the same risk for any other future draft pick out there, so this is not really saying anything.
- NBA people could continue to discount the fact that he is Asian and they have not seen an Asian player produce like this. You would like to think, however, that Jeremy being Asian would actually help him make the NBA, due to the marketing potential.
- Harvard could start playing bad, causing Jeremy to fall off the radar no matter what numbers he puts up. This is because Harvard is in the Ivy League. I don't know if you noticed, but in the NCAA, the exciting parts are the early non-conference battles (like UConn vs Kentucky last week), the conference tournaments and the NCAA Tournament itself. League play gets to be pretty mundane unless you are in a powerhouse conference. To make matters worse, for whatever reason, the Ivy League does not have a season-ending conference tournament (the Pac-10 didn't even have one until several years ago).
- Harvard could continue to play well, but not finish first in the Ivy League and therefore probably not receive an NCAA Tournament bid. Yes, it's a little early to be talking about the NCAA Tournament, but Harvard's already in the top 65 in RPI rating. If you are not playing in the NCAA Tournament, then you are not on national TV. That could cause Jeremy's stock to plummet. It should be noted that there are three other invitational tournaments, one of them the NIT, at the end of the season.
- Every team could start playing like Cornell and Army and, as a team, stop Jeremy Lin. However, I have concluded that most teams are either not talented enough to handle all of Harvard's weapons, or are too talented such that it is impossible for them to sacrifice as a collective unit to stop one man, as have the powers that be at Cornell and Army been able to do. In short, I think we're okay with this one.
- You might not tell anyone about Jeremy Lin, which will result in him still being a secret. Let's remember one thing: NBA offices have human beings sitting behind computers hooked up to the Internet these days. Last week, the blogosphere erupted after ESPN's cadre of college basketball analysts poured the praise on (I have a whole collection of links below, don't worry!). In this day and age, you can make a difference. Remember, social media played a huge role in Barack Obama getting elected as President.
Even the detractors will say, at least now, that Jeremy will be welcomed to play professionally somewhere. However, if you're an Asian-American, you should hope he makes the NBA because it will help eliminate the discrimination on America's playgrounds.
To make the NBA, you need to be on the draft boards, which I've yet to figure out who the sources are (NBA agents?). You need to perform, as Jeremy has been helping himself in doing, and you need to win, of course. Once you're on the draft board, you need to have great workouts, but you need to be drafted. There are only 60 slots available. If you're drafted in the first round, you're in good shape; there is almost no chance that any NBA executive would let you play anywhere else but the NBA, because that executive has got to prove his pick was worth the investment. If you're drafted in the 2nd round, you've been labeled "NBA-caliber", but you can't screw it up in Summer League or training camp, and it depends on the roster of the team that selected you.
But if you're undrafted, there are only so many people named Anthony Morrow or Will Bynum out there.
Here's what ESPN's Dana O'Neil said in an ESPN chat transcript:
The NBA is so frustrating to me. They pick on upside and measurements and all this who-ha instead of whether or not a kid can play. I heard it about Jameer Nelson for two years. He was too small, too this. And now he's an All-Star. So I don't know if Lin will get drafted. I do, however, think he could help a team smart enough to take him.
Another more notable analyst from ESPN, Chad Ford, said this (Insider required):
Lin is a terrific scorer, quick, has good leaping ability and is a nice size for a point guard. The fact that he's an Asian-American guard playing at Harvard has probably kept him off the NBA radar too long. But as scouts are hunting everywhere for point guards, more and more are coming back and acknowledging that Lin is a legit prospect.
It doesn't look like he cracks anyone's top 30 at the moment. However, if he finishes strong and has great workouts against some of the better prospects in the draft, his stock could soar.
The most famous ESPN college analyst on TV, Jay Bilas -- the one who covers the NBA Draft -- paid the ultimate compliment (Insider required):
Lin can play anywhere, in any league.
When you look at the basic stats, you don't see a whole lot of difference from mid-first-round to late-second-round. Every guard's got respectable numbers in the high teens in scoring and maybe four or five assists per game. It's the national TV and hype that moves you up.
We can actually do something about that hype. We can show the world that people want to see Jeremy play, that we would buy tickets to his games if he makes it into the NBA. And as someone who has bought each and every Harvard game video streaming package available under the sun (every college is responsible for streaming its own home games), I can tell you that it has been worth every penny. Certainly worth more than what the Warriors charge!
Maybe it was meant to be that Facebook and Twitter started becoming mainstream this year?
Maybe it was meant to be that GSoM picked up Poor Man's Commish on their staff right about this time. This blog gets picked up by all of the national distributors. If you believe in Jeremy Lin, forward this article to anyone you think might be interested, asap!
What's next? Mark January 4th on your Bay Area calendars!
Jeremy's next game is on Wednesday, December 23, 2009 at 11th-ranked Georgetown (yikes!), which has a potential NBA lottery pick in 6'11" sophomore center Greg Monroe. Unfortunately, Georgetown doesn't have any guards that are ranked as highly as UConn's backcourt for the mano-y-mano versus Jeremy, but the fact remains, Georgetown as a collective unit is way, way up there. Also, the game is the only one on Georgetown's schedule that will not be televised. See what I mean?! Luckily, it will be on their video stream. For me, 425 x 300 pixels is better than nuthin'!
Then, Harvard makes a quick trip out to the West Coast, first up to Seattle University on January 2nd, 2010. Actually, there's an even longer-shot NBA prospect in point guard Charles Garcia, that ESPN's Chad Ford wrote about (Insider account required):
Two weeks ago we said that Seattle U's Charles Garcia was a potential draft sleeper ... but he appears to be a sleeper no longer. More and more scouts have him on their radar screen and he's wowing them with his versatility and production. One minute he's playing the 4, the next he's playing the point. It's virtually impossible to deny the talent. However, don't go overboard just yet. As an increasing number of scouts start to see him play, they're also digging into his background and the early reports don't sound good. Does he have the talent to be a first-round pick? Maybe. But scouts are expressing concerns about enough background questions to keep him out of the first round until teams feel like they have all of the answers.
This should make for a nice head-to-head matchup against Jeremy.
You should go to Harvard at Santa Clara, Monday, January 4th, 2010 (7:00pm)
Finally, Jeremy makes a "homecoming" appearance as Harvard travels to Santa Clara for a game on 1/4/2010. Tickets are already selling briskly. There are not many Lower Reserved seats remaining next to the Harvard bench.
Any and all basketball fans should go, but at least every Asian who is in town that day and enjoys basketball, went to Harvard, or wants to help the advancement of Asian-Americans ought to be at this game. I'm hoping the game will be packed with Jeremy Lin supporters.
The game isn't being televised, so if you're remotely interested, you'll need to carve out arrangements for this. Even though it's not televised, I hope that the YouTube revolution will continue and some of you attending the game will capture this potential history-making event.
Email harvardsantaclara@gmail.com. They've got discounted tickets.
The literal translation from Jeremy's household language of Mandarin is, "add fuel." But for all intents and purposes, it's the Chinese way of saying, "Let's go!!!"
If you hear this chant on Monday night, January 4th at SCU's Leavey Center, please join in!
If you could've gone, and you don't end up going
Remember, it still remains to be seen if fate will allow him to be drafted by an NBA franchise this summer. If he doesn't or, for whatever reason, he does not end up making an NBA roster, then you will have missed a golden opportunity to see him play in the Bay Area, live.
He would probably end up playing in Europe and we all know how much coverage we get here in the U.S. on Euro-basketball: none.
This could be your last chance.
More links for you to gobble up
To stay updated on Jeremy Lin you can...
- Follow me on Twitter @poormanscommish
- Friend me on Facebook at http://facebook.com/dreamleague
- Subscribe to my YouTube videos at http://youtube.com/dreamleague
- Check out my blog (RSS feed available there), Poor Man's Commish
If someone wants to help me continue keeping track of his and others' dunks, buzzer beaters, or whatever other stat, speak up!
I'm sure you don't have the time to read all of these, so drop your questions in the comments!
- Photo gallery of Harvard-UConn including Jeremy's dunk and swat: http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-men/hc-uconn-men-harvard-pictures,0,932976.photogallery
- ESPN's Dana O'Neil and her article entitled Immigrant Dream Plays Out Through Son that set the Twittersphere ablaze last week and was the cover story on ESPN.com's College Basketball section: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=oneil_dana&id=4730385
- Gottlieb's praise that accompanied the O'Neil article (Insider required): http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4731117&name=ncbexperts
- More from ESPN college basketball analyst O'Neil as well as Andy Katz: http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/tag/_/name/jeremy-lin
- Dana O'Neil's chat transcript: http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/29844/ncaa-bb-with-dana-oneil
- Jay Bilas saying "anywhere, any league": http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4721259&name=bilas_jay
- Chad Ford: http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4734046&name=nba_draft
- Many, many quotes put on one page by GoCrimson.com: http://www.gocrimson.com/sports/mbkb/2009-10/releases/091210_MBB_Quotes
- Jason Kidd's college stats with 9.1 apg, 6.9 rpg (off the charts!), in case you were interested: http://www.basketballreference.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=KIDDJA01
- Steve Nash's college stats with 6.0 apg, 3.6 rpg: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html
- Chauncy Billup's college stats with 4.8 apg, 4.9 rpg (eerily similar): http://www.basketballreference.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=BILLUCH01
- Deron Williams's college stats with 4.5 apg, 3.0 rpg: http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/illinois/deron-williams
- Dwyane Wade's college stats with 3.4 apg, 6.6 rpg: http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/marquette/dwyane-wade
- Chris Paul's college stats with 5.9 apg, 3.3 rpg: http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/wake-forest/chris-paul
- Jeremy's up-to-date stats on ESPN: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=32762
- ESPN's 2010 draft board: http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/position?id=1&draftyear=2010
- NBADraft.net's draft board: http://www.nbadraft.net/2010mock_draft
- DraftExpress.com's draft board: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2010/
- John Wall's sick stats this year: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=45885
- Willie Warren's stats. Comparable at 6'4" 199 lbs and similar offensive stats, but Jeremy outshines on defensive rebounding, blocked shots, and steals: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=41570
- Greivis Vasquez's stats. He's 6'6" but only 190 lbs. I have not seen him play (yet) and I've read that he's not the most humble player, which may be chickenfeed for NBA competition: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=32018
- Iman Shumpert's stats. He's comparable at 6'5" 209 lbs. Only 8.3 ppg and 2.3 rpg as of this writing, though. I have not seen him play: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=40975
- Armon Johnson's stats. He's comparable at 6'3" 195 lbs and I have not seen him play. Again, similar numbers but Jeremy shines on defense and game-breaking ability: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36326
- NCAA's current leaders in blocked shots. I wonder how many of these are guards: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/leaders?groupId=50&cat=blocks&sort=AVG&seasonYear=2010
- Compendium of Jeremy Lin blogposts on Poor Man's Commish: http://www.dreamleague.org/blog/category/jeremylin/
- Poor Man's Commish: The Legend of Jeremy Lin Part 1 of 2 (I said it first: "He will make the NBA.")
- Poor Man's Commish: The Legend of Jeremy Lin Part 2 of 2 (the possibility that there might not be a fairy tale ending)
- Poor Man's Commish: The Revolution will not be televised (most comprehensive scouting report on Jeremy thus far)
- Poor Man's Commish: Meet Mr. Crunch-Time (2nd half scoring, the dunk at Holy Cross)
- Poor Man's Commish: JL4 does it again (the William & Mary buzzer-beater)
- Poor Man's Commish: Status check on the Megatron star (more links!)
- Poor Man's Commish: Jeremy Lin's stats plunge (blowout vs Bryant and debacle vs Army)
- Poor Man's Commish: David vs Goliath II (includes dunk tallies)
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109 comments
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Comments
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I think he’ll make it.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Dec 15, 2009 3:43 PM PST reply actions
Lin is the quintessential Asian American baller
Smart, unselfish and hardworking. Hope he makes it to the next level!
I’d take him for his skill and composure. In reality, there are probably some GMs out there that would take him more for marketing purposes. Though, the best market for him would be here!
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Dec 15, 2009 4:03 PM PST reply actions
To Answer the poll question:
Yes and no. Yes, he’ll make it as a late first round, second round pick, but I HIGHLY doubt he’ll turn into anything closely resembling a quality NBA starter or even a quality guard off the bench. I’m 100% Chinese and hate how the media depicts us and how we get absolutely no respect in the mainstream media, but even I have doubts that he can make it into the NBA and stay there. I hope he proves me wrong though…
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
Based On What?
Seems like you didn’t get one of the points I was trying to make. You said, “I HIGHLY doubt he’ll turn into anything closely resembling a quality NBA starter or even a quality guard off the bench”. What are you basing that on?
Poor Man's Commish - newly relaunched!... http://dreamleague.org/blog
by Poor Man's Commish on Dec 15, 2009 6:42 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
which pro sports have 'few asians'??
cricket, table tennis, badminton, tae kwon do, kick/thai boxing? Are you referring to Asian-americans, and if so, immigrant subcultures go through pretty extreme changes when adapting to the majority values and hierarchies. Perhaps you mean the mega-industrialized satellite entertainment complex-marketed pro sports, but more than half the world watches some of those named.
i'm talking about the most played sports on earth...
and i’m talking about east asians (from or of descent)…
you don’t see many east asians playing professional soccer, cricket, rugby, basketball…i’m talking about widely international sports…its just something i’ve observed, nothing personal meant by it.
and i think that immigrant subculture excuse isn’t valid. black people have done just fine…
"so much losers" - hiero
Are any other Chinese out there wondering
Why Jeremy would choose 4 as his jersey number? Of all numbers to choose!
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
FYI, in Chinese, "4" sounds like "die"
For those of you wondering, “4” in Chinese is considered an unlucky number because it sounds like another Chinese word, “die”. By contrast, “8” is a lucky number, which is one reason why discounted tickets are being sold for $8.88 at harvardsantaclara@gmail.com.
I think he chose “4” just like any other American kid. He had a favorite player in the NBA who wore the same number — maybe? The thought of the Chinese word probably never crossed his mind growing up as an American. Anyways, he’s been interviewed and said he’s a Warriors fan.
Poor Man's Commish - newly relaunched!... http://dreamleague.org/blog
by Poor Man's Commish on Dec 15, 2009 6:51 PM PST up reply actions
Anyways, he’s been interviewed and said he’s a Warriors fan.
Well he is from the Bay, isn’t he?
"Monta is the MAN." -Bob Fitzgerald
by WarriorForLife on Dec 15, 2009 10:41 PM PST up reply actions
having coached against teams featuring
Madsen
J.R. Rider
Kidd
Eddie House
- who were all Bay Area Stars in their own right, can report that while he was a VERY good HS player who could obviously play at the college level, JLin was not even close to any of them in terms of dominating the game – by which he was undisputably the best player on the floor every night, or was the singular focus of an opponent’s game plan to stop him, and I saw him play at Paly on more than a couple occasions. Yes his team did win, and he had help. Perhaps including you comish? Is this your homey?
Seven dunks in nine games does not make one an NBA player, and putting him in the same sentence as Wall or comparing him to DWade is beyond a stretch. A close reading of several of the quotes used in evidence above shows that they are unsure of Lin’s ceiling, haven’t seen him play, or are luke warm.
Could he become an NBA star? Sure, suppose nearly every team in DI could have a potential NBA player but few even make the draft much less summer training camp cut. Would it be great to have a Bay Area product in the NBA? No doubt. An Asian? Ya, absolutely cool. Is that Lin? Waaaaaay too early to jump on this hype imo.
Your opinion depends on how many games you have seen
Do tell.
Even watching Summer League games could give you some insight as to the level needed. How many have you watched?
I never saw Jeremy play in high school, but I did watch one video of him (not the championship) and I would agree, he wasn’t dominating back then and there wasn’t much to really get excited about, except the fact that he was tall enough as a playmaker and a winner.
But he has VASTLY improved during the summer of his junior year. He filled out and he had a solid base of basketball instincts to build from. The rest, based on what I’ve seen, is history.
Poor Man's Commish - newly relaunched!... http://dreamleague.org/blog
by Poor Man's Commish on Dec 15, 2009 6:56 PM PST up reply actions
I Like the Guy
But I still think he just looks good cause his teammates suck.
Same situation with Curry @ Davidson. Honestly, Curry isn’t ready for the NBA and I was iffy on draft night when the W’s took him. I thought his shot was gonna get blocked easily by NBA Players (or altered which it has this year) and he didn’t seem very athletic in terms of jumping.
Lin is athletic, but like Curry we overvalue star players on mid major teams. I just don’t see that “Potential” to be a solid bench player or starter in the NBA in Lin. Curry I see a possibility, but still he looks like he’ll just be an average bench players, because on another team I doubt he’ll play as much as he does in GS.
The Time Is Now! Win Warriors Win!
lol
he carried on one highlight, traveled on another. but he does look good. hes not nba talent yet. He probably would be like a D-League pick up after some more seasoning but he has what it takes. now if there could only be some more Filipinos in the NBA only 1 played in the NBA and it was even for the Warriors. Im surprised not to many of us and we ball all the time, and some are not short.
So I don't have a signature well these words would do! Who knew that upgrades can have downgrades too!
by 24k state fan since 87 on Dec 15, 2009 5:13 PM PST reply actions
Haha. But it did make my eyes hurt a little trying sift through them all.
You mean your mind isn’t totally blown by the fact that he’s averaging 14.3 points in 6 of 9 cherrypicked second halves? Or that he’s 4 for 8 in buzzer beaters despite the fact that they don’t have quarters in college???
Jeremy Lin is the reason Waldo is hiding.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Dec 15, 2009 9:53 PM PST up reply actions
Overrated...
This guy will get absolutely killed in the NBA.
It’s funny how every Asian that has a little talent gets completely over-hyped by other Asians.
by Cpt. Jack in the Box on Dec 15, 2009 5:33 PM PST reply actions
can you name a few?
he must be doing something right…….. its funnier how one asian dude just doing his thang gets hated on for being overrated. ay, somebody gotta do it right?
Look at all the Asian players in the NBA...
None of them has had any success except for Yao Ming.
Yi Jianlian was completely overrated,we all saw it coming.
by Cpt. Jack in the Box on Dec 16, 2009 12:16 AM PST up reply actions
Oh no not another asian michael jordan please
Do Not Want.
When has there ever been a comparison
of an “Asian Michael Jordan” in the first place?
by dj fuzzylogic on Dec 15, 2009 9:01 PM PST up reply actions
Nice article
That’s a lot of research – I believe you! Lin was better than Curry in college; all Curry did was chuck up 3’s. Lin can shoot and drive and pass, dunk, has thicker arms, and plays great D as shown by that swat. Late 1st round-early 2nd; Warriors should pick him, trade curry/maggette/turiaf for David Lee this year and resign and we’ll have a team:
Lin
Monta
Randolph
Lee
Biedrens
Coach: Avery Johnson, Assistant Donnie Nelson
Owners: Mullin, Richmond, Hardaway
dp
LOL
Maybe high school?
One of the few to have appreciated Cap'n Jax. Do well in NC, get that 8th seed!
Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!
This post is about whether or not Lin can even make an NBA roster. Curry is a legit NBA player
by Loveisforfree on Dec 15, 2009 9:44 PM PST up reply actions
plays great D as shown by that swat
One act of athleticism doesn’t make one a great defender.
"Monta is the MAN." -Bob Fitzgerald
by WarriorForLife on Dec 15, 2009 10:45 PM PST up reply actions
It says 1.2 block shots per game
nuff said, right?
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by Poor Man's Commish on Dec 16, 2009 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
Blocks aren't the key to defense. Bruce Bowen is one of the premiere defenders in the league and averages only .4 blocks for his career.
I think Lin’s 1.2 blocks is more so a nod to his athletiscm, rather than defense. You’re a good defender if you can lock down your opponent and make him work for buckets.
"Monta is the MAN." -Bob Fitzgerald
by WarriorForLife on Dec 16, 2009 6:04 PM PST up reply actions
"Lin was better than Curry in college..."?
Dude,you’re hilarious.
by Cpt. Jack in the Box on Dec 15, 2009 11:02 PM PST up reply actions
No. Based on the fact that I can predict the future.
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Dec 15, 2009 8:33 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Uhm
I think he’s all hype especially coming from the bay area. I give him that he was a great HS player and will be a good collegiate high school player, but I don’t see a transition to the NBA.
One of the few to have appreciated Cap'n Jax. Do well in NC, get that 8th seed!
Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!
I don't mean for you to write a whole fanpost but...
…when you say, “I don’t see a transition to the NBA”, what are you basing that on?
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by Poor Man's Commish on Dec 15, 2009 9:58 PM PST up reply actions
Well, for one … how about the fact that Lin isn’t listed among the Top 60 players in the ’10 Draft by DraftExpress or Draftnet?
Seems to me like the burden of proof (or at least realism and objectivity) is still on you.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Dec 15, 2009 10:12 PM PST up reply actions
A very fair point...
I have no problem giving a local guy some extra publicity, but he still has a ton to prove if he wants to play in the NBA. I wish him the best though.
"I could be chasing an untamed ornithoid without cause."
by olympicmike on Dec 15, 2009 10:17 PM PST up reply actions
exactly
P.M.C. I think the responsibility to answer the question “based on what?” falls far more on you. I didn’t know anything about Lin before and I’d love to watch him play now and I really enjoyed your post, but I don’t think you really provided any real strong evidence for why he belongs in the NBA.
Thing A
well, i just wrote a whole blog post
i thought i answered “based on what” a lot, but if you disagree that’s fine. I just don’t think you should say I didn’t present any evidence to answer “based on what” because, clearly, i did.
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by Poor Man's Commish on Dec 16, 2009 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, but your evidence doesn't really prove that he belongs in the NBA.
3 of your 4 points aren’t the basis of most NBA prospects.
Tops in the nation in dunk? More so athleticism or getting more fast break opportunities.
Leading the nation’s guards in blocks? More so athleticism again rather than being a good defender.
4-8 on buzzer beaters? Read my post below.
The 4th point is more interesting because I guess it does show he performs better in crunch time and what not, but even then, not much of an argument.
"Monta is the MAN." -Bob Fitzgerald
by WarriorForLife on Dec 16, 2009 6:10 PM PST up reply actions
Yea, like I said, I enjoyed your post a lot, but I really don’t think you answered the “based on what?” question. The stats you provided seem a bit cherry-picked or not all that meaningful. It really was a fun read and I’m looking forward to watching Lin play as I had never even heard of him, I just think a stronger case has to be made FOR a Harvard guy belonging in the NBA before anyone has to make the case against him.
Thing A
OK, MAYBE THIS IS WHAT'S GOING ON HERE
I put the dunk comparison up because when I tell people who have never heard of Jeremy Lin that he’s “athletic”, they sort of nod out of respect. Then I have to tell them he has as many dunks as Patrick Christopher, then they raise their eyebrows and at that point, they “get it”. They understand the level of athleticism we are talking about.
For example, Steve Nash is athletic. But he’s not Patrick Christopher athletic. Also, JL is getting these dunks despite Harvard not having a fastbreak type of team (as compared to Kentucky, let’s say).
Furthermore, if I were to evaluate John Wall, I would say that Wall’s 14 dunks is one telling stat of many that he is one of those incredible #1 picks. I mean, that stat for Wall is off the charts, esp for a point guard. Therefore, I don’t see what the ruckus is about regarding dunks.
As far as the 3 other stats which I thought were unique insights into JL’s “je ne sais quois”, it’s along those same lines. If you look at the basic stats: ppg, apg, rpg, even though he does have a higher rpg than most guards, almost everyone on the draft board is around the same numbers.
Incidentally, I don’t know that you debunked the 1.2 blocked shots per game as not being meaningful. Can you please show me a guard in the NBA or NCAA who is averaging an abnormally high number of blocked shots, who is NOT considered a good defender? Showing an example would be helpful.
Anyways, I think many of you are misconstruing the 4 stats I brought up as the reason to pick him in the draft, if you are a GM. If you check my blog, you’ll see that I’ve already written about all the basics and I’ve even criticized other aspects of his game, esp. his shooting form. This piece is supposed to be the one that puts him over the top, an attempt at quantifying what is very difficult to quantify. You have two PG prospects with similar ppg, apg, rpg. Who do you pick?
I never said that the way to evaluate every draft pick is to base each draft pick on dunks, buzzer beaters, points per 2nd half, and defense. If you read my Summer League scouting reports on this website, I’ve never used the number of dunks as criterion for whether or not some 2nd-rounder will make an NBA roster. You have to have some basic qualities first. But I assumed everyone already knew JL passed the basic tests. I mean, that should be fairly evident with the UConn performance along with the two BC performances in back-to-back years.
So when you say that what I brought up was not meaningful, well, I guess we disagree.
I also think that NBA franchises do consider other things than the usual stats. What those are, who knows. Maybe one of my four overlaps theirs? They certainly consider marketability, so if the token Asian guy can also dunk, and during the flow of a game, in traffic, and consistently, that’s a consideration, is it not? And in my book, it’s actually a low-ish consideration, 4th out of 4.
Remember, it’s the owner that writes the checks. 9 times out 10, the owner will require the GM to tell him who the heck he’s about to pick, and he’ll want to know how this guy will add value to the franchise. Notice, I said “add value”, not “add wins”. The NBA is a business. Owners want people in seats. At some point, slam dunks put people in seats. I’m not saying dunks are the reason people buy a ticket, but it helps. Incidentally, dunks also do help in wins, as it energizes teammates. Just ask JL’s teammates. JL has changed the momentum of games with his dunks.
I dunno, what stats DO you guys want to hear about? Because JL’s probably got ’em already.
So I think a lot going on here is that you guys don’t know the frame of reference that I’m writing from. I’m already way past the basic tests. I’ve seen enough and written enough for that stuff. I’m at the point where I’m trying to quantify some things that I’ve seen that justify him as a high draft pick. It’s like Darryl Morey trying to quantify what he sees as special for Shane Battier, that’s all.
Finally, I do agree that if everyone in the world read this article, then there could be too much JL hype which, if he read this post, would be detrimental to his progress. For example, if I’m playing in my rec league and someone said I had a sweet stroke (I don’t, I’m just saying) and I’ve been having some amazing stat at the buzzer shooting treys, the next game I play in, I might be too conscious of this and not play in the flow of the moment. Yes, the hype would mess me up.
However, there HASN’T been such hype and I would rather err on too much than too little. I’m trying to point out some things that don’t necessarily have to be associated with him being Asian and everything to do with him being a marketable NBA draft pick.
And, btw, if he can’t handle the pressure of the hype, then he doesn’t belong in the NBA. Anything happening here today on this board will be nothing compared to what would happen if he did get drafted.
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by Poor Man's Commish on Dec 17, 2009 3:44 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed with sam23.
I’m no college hoops junkie by any means, but is Harvard to top team in the nation? Is the Ivy League a top conference? I don’t think so. Because of this, like sam23 said above, the competition may not be as difficult to play against, therefore his scoring, dunks, blocking, etc. may be skewed. Prove me wrong if otherwise. Put him on a better team in a better conference and his numbers may go down, as he may not even be the best player on a better team or must play tougher opponents. Or they could go up if he really is what you claim him to be.
"Monta is the MAN." -Bob Fitzgerald
by WarriorForLife on Dec 17, 2009 2:57 PM PST up reply actions
that's my whole point
He isn’t listed on DraftExpress or Draftnet because he plays for Harvard and they haven’t seen him play enough.
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by Poor Man's Commish on Dec 16, 2009 1:46 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
playing in the ivy league
is a legit concern. Why do you declare him a legit first rounder and then ask us if he will even play in the nba? lol.
there's a difference
declaring him a legit first rounder doesn’t mean…
1. he will be a first rounder
2. that you agree
…therefore, the poll.
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by Poor Man's Commish on Dec 16, 2009 1:49 PM PST up reply actions
woah there buddy
i’m not saying he will or wont make the league, but i’m saying he is in no way a lock for it. “Based on what?” not because he lacks skill, but because there are tons of guys like him that never even come close to making it. Based on the matter that HES NOT EVEN THE BEST D-1 PLAYER FROM THE BAY AREA. For example… in the WCC, which is comparable to the Ivy League, Omar Samhan for St. Mary’s (he is from San Ramon) and Dior Lowhorn for USF (hes from the City) are both averaging 19+ ppg, more than Jeremy Lin. ever heard of them? should we do articles on them? are they going to the NBA?
i could write like 50 things about how ridiculous this article is but i’ll just leave it at that since this is only a comment.
I have seen him play on the same floor as Dior
…in closed scrimmages. Dior is not at the same level. He’s decent and who knows about his chances, but as far as those scrimmages, no. Sorry.
I have not seen Omar Samhan play, so am not qualified to comment on him.
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by Poor Man's Commish on Dec 16, 2009 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
Sign me up!
As the instigator originator of The Yi Movement, The Singh Movement, and The MingMing Movement. I’d just like to say that I fully endorse the Jeremy Lin Movement.
Thanks for the insights man. Much appreciated in-depth analysis.
Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!"
by Atma Brother ONE on Dec 15, 2009 10:15 PM PST reply actions
I don't understand how being 4-8 on buzzer beaters is an eye popping stat.
It seems he went 3-5 in first half buzzer beaters and 1-3 in second half buzzer beaters. Sure 3-5 is a nice percentage, but these came in situations similar to a run of the mill shot clock beating shot. Shouldn’t really be a stat worth considering.
Now the second half buzzer beaters are different cause in general, they can obviously mean more in a close game. But 1-3 in these situations may be too small a size to be considered eye popping.
"Monta is the MAN." -Bob Fitzgerald
by WarriorForLife on Dec 15, 2009 10:36 PM PST reply actions
buzzer beaters
it would be interesting to compare the stat with other players.
i just think it’s a telling stat. I’ll bet you most of the players on the draft board don’t even take the last shots on their teams.
if you disagree, you disagree.
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by Poor Man's Commish on Dec 16, 2009 1:53 PM PST up reply actions
I’ll bet you most of the players on the draft board don’t even take the last shots on their teams.
I think it’s safe to say that the best player on the team handles the ball on the last possessions, and it’s up to them to make the right play, be it shooting or creating for others.
I’m sure Lin is the best player on his team, but I’m not sure if he’s top 60 in the nation.
"Monta is the MAN." -Bob Fitzgerald
by WarriorForLife on Dec 16, 2009 5:58 PM PST up reply actions
Another Chad Ford comment on Lin from an ESPN chat session
Ike (Brooklyn, NY)
Is that Harvard kid legit?Chad Ford (1:52 PM)
I’ve been watching Jeremy Lin for a little over a year and I’m pretty impressed. He does a lot of things well. If he was playing at Stanford (which blew a chance to get him) he’d be in the first round conversation.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Dec 15, 2009 11:50 PM PST reply actions
yes, not a lot of people have commented about what the ESPN guys have to say
thanks for mentioning Chad Ford, among others.
Instead of everyone bashing me, how about you guys start criticizing the guys who analyze college bball for a living?
I did post their quotes in the article, you know.
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by Poor Man's Commish on Dec 16, 2009 1:54 PM PST up reply actions
Prediction: Jeremy Lin will be undrafted, then show up to training camp and make a NBA roster as a decent role player. Harvard does however have a shot at beating Cornell for the Ivy title, so if they make into March Madness and pull off an upset Lin will be in the 2nd round conversation.
There are only 60 draft spots, and being at a program like Harvard isn’t going to help his chances. Nonetheless, he’s shown me that he can ball. But let’s not get carried away – he’s not likely to be a solid starter or anything in the NBA, let alone be a star, when you’ve got guys like Wall and Warren to reckon with in this draft class alone.
"I never watched baseball on TV. It's slow and boring. I'm not a fan. Never was." - Jeff Kent
agreed (for now), but...
Everyone keeps coming back to Wall and Warren. People, there are 58 other picks to be made. I hope we can all agree that after Wall, there’s definitely a drop-off. I mean, he is the #1 pick, consensus, and that’s what #1’s are supposed to be like.
I haven’t seen Warren play. Hopefully will soon.
Look at all the late first- and second-round picks of the last few years and you will probably not recognize many of the names. That’s another reason why I don’t think getting drafted is that far-fetched. Here’s a sampling…
NBA PGs DRAFTED
2009: 16 OUT: Nick Calathes, Patrick Beverley, Nando de Colo
2008: 10 OUT: Sean Singletary, Mike Taylor
2007: 9 A.Law, Undrafted: Bobby Brown, OUT: G.Pruitt, P.Koponen, Jared Jordan, Taurean Green
2006: 10 Mardy Collins, D.Gibson, Undrafted: J.J.Barea, OUT: W.Blalock, Y.Halperin
2005: 11 Undrafted: Will Bynum, OUT: Orien Greene, Roko Ukic, Travis Diener, Daniel Ewing
2004: 13 Vujacic, OUT: Lionel Chalmers, Antonio Burks, V.Spanoulis, B.Stepp, Rashad Wright
2003: 9 OUT: Marcus Banks, Troy Bell, Zoran Planinic, Derrick Zimmerman, Paccelis Morlende
Also, I think JL can keep improving, he has a high ceiling.
I guess you guys did not witness how J.J. Barea was impressive in Summer League years ago, then slowly got playing time, and look at him now. He’s a regular. While there’s been plenty of guys who dropped off, the Barea example shows, it’s do-able
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by Poor Man's Commish on Dec 16, 2009 2:00 PM PST up reply actions
Seen him play
Uh hello yall. Instead of relying on stats (dunks per game…really?) I think I can provide you with a little help from someone who played against him in 8th grade thru HS…and saw him play while he was with Harvard and I was at Boston Univ as a member of the student media.
Points per game is not everything and Jeremy proves that. Even when he’s not scoring, he is still often the best player on the floor, a tribute to any point guard anywhere. 8th grade AAU he played with Metro in Palo Alto, and I played on another PA team, our team name irrelevant, and they pretty handed it to us (they meaning him, and us meaning me). Frankly, I’m surprised he grew to 6’3", but that’s what happens when you are used to being one of the smallest players out there and bam…you grow to well over 6’. Having the athleticism and skill doesn’t hurt either, but you have to perfect your game when you are that small in a big man’s sport.
A tribute to him is how he keeps improving. Not necessarily the Most Outstanding Player, he is arguably the Most VALUABLE on the floor at all times, whether he was with Paly or at Harvard. His sophomore year he visited Case Gym at BU going against below-average D 1 players. Matched up against Tyler Morris (played with Greg Oden in HS), I thought he held his own, but 2 years later, when he visited BU again (a few weeks ago) you can just see the progression. (19 points, 4 boards, 4 dimes, 2 blocks, 4 steals, 2 TO, 5-11 from the field in a slow-paced, generic college game.) Oh and by the way, he was checking Corey Lowe, BU’s all-time leading 3 point shooter, and held him to 4-17 shooting, 0-7 from 3 pt range.
I did the student radio for BU and I’ll just say he can do everything well, nothing exceptional, except his basketball iq was the highest on the court by far, but isn’t that what you would like out of a backup PT guard at the professional level? I don’t think the fact he attends Harvard hurts help (but it doesn’t help him either, especially if Harvard doesn’t win the Ivy League title…no postseason automatic berth for the Ivy, you have to win the regular season title to make the NCAA Tourney). We see that with BIg East players every year getting exposure in the Big East Tourney in Madison Square Garden and on ESPN (Johnny Flynn, that six OT game, Jay Bilas’ man crush on him). If Harvard finishes in second in the Ivy League, Lin won’t be drafted. I think that’s pretty black and white.
If Harvard gets in and Lin plays well, he’ll get second round consideration. But no way in hell is he a lottery pick and I think he’ll tell you that. That being said, I hope he continues to play the way he has been. It’s been a bad year so far for past Bay Area HS ballers with Drew Gordon transferring from UCLA. It’s good to see that the true underdog is in this national spotlight.
Not to make this an essay, but in closing, I hope his status as an Asian player does not hurt him. I know for a fact he had his doubters even AAU coaches here in the Bay Area didn’t think he was that good (when I asked one why he’s not getting attention). As an Asian ballplayer myself (at 5’6") I had trouble with people taking me seriously, but talent does win over. I assume not getting a scholarship offer has fueled Lin these entire 4 years, and now look. We are talking about him as a potential NBA point guard. Amazing. I know some people will say what does this kid talking about with this excessively long, condescending, post, but trust me. I’ve seen him in person, been following him thru college, and have played against him in the early years. It would be AWESOME for him to have a career in any level of professional bball, let alone the NBA. Bottom line, I think he’s the best story in college basketball so far this year and it’s not even close. He’ll battle it out to make it in the Association, and I’ll be rooting for him. He could be getting paid for playing this sport for a long time, just not sure it’ll be all in the NBA.
Lin vs. Curry
Lin was a better player in college than Steph? So San Jose State is a better school than Harvard too?
Even when he’s not scoring, he is still often the best player on the floor
If he wasn’t the best player on the floor in ivy league games MOST of the time we shouldnt even be discussing any chance of an NBA future. UC Davis’ PG, Mark Payne, is regularly the best player on the floor, but I don’t think that says a whole lot about his potential to be a pro.
Thing A
ESPN just mentioned Payne
In one of the articles linked on the blogpost, they mentioned Payne as someone to look out for. So, in fact, they ARE talking about Payne’s potential to be a pro.
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by Poor Man's Commish on Dec 16, 2009 2:04 PM PST up reply actions
haha
are you kidding me? I stand corrected, you win. He’s a lot of fun to watch and he’s got the size but I can’t really imagine him playing at that level. Do you happen to have the link for that?
Thing A
nevermind, found it
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4734046&name=nba_draft
Speaking of players from small schools, former Warriors head coach Eric Musselman has turned scouts on to a 6-foot-7 point guard at UC Davis named Mark Payne. Musselman was covering a game for Comcast last season and stumbled across Payne and blogged that he thought the PG was a legit NBA prospect.
Since then scouts have been paying close attention and more and more of them are beginning to agree with Musselman’s assessment. Payne is aggressive and really knows how to push the ball in transition. He loves to finish at the rim with some powerful dunks (you can check him out on YouTube). He’s not a terrific shooter yet, but he’s been improving his jump shot all summer.
I’m not sure where exactly to put him on the Big Board — not enough decision makers have actually seen him play — but there are enough scouts that I trust to add him to the list.
Thanks for the heads up on that P.M.C. I still don’t really believe he’s got that kind of athleticism and he’s really a pretty bad shooter from anywhere outside the paint, but I’ll definitely be watching the next game from a different perspective.
Thing A
Probably correct, take Steve Nash as an example
First of all, thanks for the “essay”. The more people who have played with or against him, the more people who have actually seen him play, you can see similar lines of thinking. Often times, we doubt ourselves as to what we actually saw (because quite frankly we’ve never seen an Asian man do that), then we realize that he really is that good after he does this a few more times, in our presence. This is totally consistent with almost everyone who has actually seen him play over the course of a significant timeframe.
Secondly, you mention that if Harvard doesn’t make the NCAA Tourney, he won’t be drafted. Well, that’s where maybe the social media hype can change things. I offer you this: if Steve Nash’s Santa Clara didn’t make it to the tourney, let alone as a #15 seed, upset #2 Arizona that year, then Steve Nash doesn’t get drafted 14th or whatever it was he was drafted.
However, Steve Nash was always Steve Nash. Even once he got in the NBA, it took a few twists and turns to become the Steve Nash of today, but he was always Steve Nash, he always had that in him. That’s basically what I’m saying about Jeremy Lin. He may not be at Steve Nash’s level right now, and there’s a whole season left to be played, but he’s got something in him — something that I’m saying is worth at least the 30th pick in the draft — and that thing he’s got will either get the opportunity or not.
I’m also saying he’s worth at least the 30th pick in the draft in relative terms. I’ve watched a lot of late first-round picks play in Summer League and I have not been necessarily impressed by many of those late first-round picks. He doesn’t need to be as good as John Wall. He just needs to be a better pick than the current 30th (or, hey, 60th) projected pick. Based on what I’ve seen, I’m convinced he’s definitely better than 60th, definitely good enough for 30th.
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by Poor Man's Commish on Dec 16, 2009 2:16 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Use social media, if you care.
If the mainstream media won’t show his games, maybe the only way scouts will get to see this guy is to have the fans record him and post it up on the web. So far, the bar for exposure is set ridiculously low (425×300 resolution as mentioned in this post) so anything better than that will be a plus.
Since the comparisons have been between Stephen Curry and Jeremy Lin, lets compare the amount of social media that has been produced for each.
Stephen Curry
Facebook Groups: 30+ (More than 1000 Members)
Facebook Pages: 4 (~37,000 Fans)
MySpace Fan Pages: 4+ (I just search “Stephen Curry”)
YouTube: A Ton.
Jeremy Lin
Facebook Groups: 1 (Title: “Jeremy Lin: The Asian American Lebron James”, Type: “Just For Fun”, Members: 336)
Facebook Pages: None
MySpace: Nothing but an old profile (his username is apparently “chinkballa88”, lol)
YouTube: 50+ (Good, but mostly from the same event “Dream League”? More NCAA videos needed. More diverse video sources needed.)
If you really want to see guy out there on the NBA court dunking on people, take some action and get him there. Make a Facebook Page, Facebook Group, MySpace Fan Page, Post Videos on YouTube, Vimeo, Write a Tweet, Write a Blog Article.
Whoever goes to the Georgetown or Santa Clara games ought to bring a video camera and upload it when they’re done.
youtube user aman2k
…he put up the UConn highlights on YouTube. The following week, his video was abuzz in the blogosphere and twittersphere. Aman2k definitely played a role in that.
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by Poor Man's Commish on Dec 16, 2009 2:19 PM PST up reply actions
Fixed for you PMC
Even then, it’s still a question.
After reading this, do you think Jeremy Lin will eventually play in theNBAPBA?
On 5/7, the best part of waking is up LOLDGERS in my cup.
PBA as in Philippines?
If you are saying PBA as in the Philippines top pro league, then I would say, “Based on what, sir?”
Well, let me base it on something for you…
I recently blogged about how three Filipinos who played in my Dream League tournaments, were MVP of those tournaments, made it to the PBA (and are ironically all on the same team)…
I know all of these players’ games intimately well and it should be no surprise to you when I say that Jeremy Lin would blow away any of these guys.
This includes Ryan Reyes, currently the best of the bunch, who was the #3 PBA Draft Pick a few years ago.
Incidentally, I don’t think Jeremy would be allowed to play in the PBA because he’s Chinese, not Filipino. Also, he could make an exponential amount more playing in Europe.
In short and to answer your question, there is no way Jeremy Lin will eventually play in the PBA.
Poor Man's Commish - newly relaunched!... http://dreamleague.org/blog
by Poor Man's Commish on Dec 16, 2009 2:25 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I’m just messin with ya. I just enjoy mentioning the PBA for some reason. Good luck on getting the word out, but I haven’t seen enough of him, personally, to jump on the bandwagon. One more nit pick: first half buzzer beaters stat? Really?
On 5/7, the best part of waking is up LOLDGERS in my cup.
He needs to get to the big dance this year
If he pulls a Wally Sczerbiak he may get drafted, but there are a lot of good players who dont make it every year.
The assit to turnover ration needs to change ASAP
I am not so sure Steph Curry would have been drafted so high if it wasnt for his father. Teams know the type of info Del passed on to Steph which will carry him beyond shot selection and defense….he already knows how to be an NBA player off the floor.
by warriorsvictim on Dec 16, 2009 10:03 AM PST reply actions
Really happy Lin is being talked about
not just here, but at other fan sites too. I’d been following Harvard because of him, but not seriously until their upset win over BC last year.
Against Uconn I wouldn’t say he had the quickest of moves, but like Calhoun said, he’s deceptive in his ability to get to the basket. He’ll need to improve his jump shot if he wants to make it to the NBA, but what amazed me was his desire to win. It looked like he was holding back in the 1st half, but in the 2nd just kept making shot after shot and singlehandedly kept Harvard within reach … the block and the dunk were the best.
unfortunate
Poor Man’s Commish, i knew about Jeremy Lin before this article- saw him in person at the high school and college level and was rooting for him. ESPN just did a nice piece on him too and it was good to see him get some positive exposure.
then came this laughable article. with you overhyping this guy, doing a large amount of meaningless research, and feverishly barking at everyone on here commenting, youre only making it worse for you as a blogger and Lin as an aspiring NBA player.
an article about Lin was a great idea for GSOM, and could have been great, but you did it in all the wrong ways. you’re all over the comment boards clown, how old are you?!
I think it's more so that Lin is Asian and played in the Bay Area's Dreamleague.
And Poor Man’s Commish, I can only assume, is Asian, and runs DreamLeague. Biased maybe?
"Monta is the MAN." -Bob Fitzgerald
by WarriorForLife on Dec 17, 2009 12:59 AM PST up reply actions
Jeremy has never played in Dream League. I don’t think anyone of his caliber has ever wasted their time playing in a rec league.
Poor Man's Commish - newly relaunched!... http://dreamleague.org/blog
by Poor Man's Commish on Dec 17, 2009 2:41 AM PST up reply actions
My mistake. I wrongly assumed he did because the Legend of Jeremy Lin video on YouTube had a dreamleague link in the info.
Nonetheless, it seems you are hyping him a little to much. Tone it down, and let him prove doubters wrong himself. Otherwise you’ll look like the fool if he doesn’t pan out after all this hype.
"Monta is the MAN." -Bob Fitzgerald
by WarriorForLife on Dec 17, 2009 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
It’s ironic how you go, “clown”, then right after that, you ask me how old I am.
Well, you say I did it in the wrong ways, but you haven’t told me what was so wrong about it.
Poor Man's Commish - newly relaunched!... http://dreamleague.org/blog
by Poor Man's Commish on Dec 17, 2009 2:40 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Sure there's alot of hype here
because he’s from Palo Alto and there is a large Asian population, but he’s also being talked about elsewhere, especially back east, where he can get more media exposure than he could if he played for a college out west.
Look, it’s all good if all this blogging earns him at least an invite to a training camp or a spot in summer league. If he shows he can live up to the hype by going to the NCAAs (not even counting the difficulty in attending Harvard at the same time), I think GMs would give him a serious look.
I've got your back Commish
This kid can play in the NBA. Needs to keep getting stronger, but kid can play. I actually saw him when he was at Palo Alto play in the CCS tournament at Santa Clara high. Sure he doesn’t look like a stud right off the bat, but that guy could then and can still COMPLETELY put a team on his back when need be. Palo Alto was not that good then, just like Harvard isn’t that good now (they aren’t bad by any means, but not Kentucky) and he made them a state champion without a lot of help.
The kid can drive, handle, pass, shoot, fills the passing lanes, sees the court great. Everything you want from a PG. My bro and I both agreed when we watched him that the guy would be legit in college if he ever got any PT and maybe it’s a good thing he didn’t end up at a big school that might not have given him a shot if they had some guys who seemed more athletic vying for the PG spot too.
Whether this guy gets a shot in the NBA or not, if he wants he will be a pro basketball player somewhere. Hopefully the Warriors can get this guy in the second round at some point. He can’t be any worse than our other 2nd round picks recently (Lasme, Hendrix, Taft, Davidson, Perovic, etc.
Enjoy Jeremy Lin while you can..........
Because I am! :)
Those people who are not Asian may not understand that there aren’t a ton of ASIAN role models for Asian folks in sports. Baseball has a few though they are mostly foreign born Asians. Football has had a few Asian come and go. Basketball has had Yao, Yi, Wang, Bateer and a scattering of other short timers (the big Korean guy and the small Japanese guy).
Jeremy Lin is probably the only ASIAN player in college basketball that I can remember that is generating hype. Jeremy Lin is the ultimate stereotype breaker: Athletic, tall and actually the best player on his team and not a bench warmer. Regardless of what you think of Jeremy’s game or his chances of making the NBA, I think all Asian-Americans should support him.
Young Asian-American basketball players (lots here in the Bay Area) might see Jeremy and think “If he can play in college ball, why can’t I?”
DCL
http://www.behindthewhistle.com
Also, Asian-AMERICAN
Also, if you’re an American-born Asian — or even if you spent a majority of your life growing up here in America — I’ll bet that Yao, Yi, and Sun Yue feel as foreign to you as the next guy, even though they are of your same race.
Being an Asian-American has so many facets that even the movie Better Luck Tomorrow really only touched on one of those aspects.
Poor Man's Commish - newly relaunched!... http://dreamleague.org/blog
by Poor Man's Commish on Dec 27, 2009 2:42 PM PST up reply actions
NBA Draft Camp
I think Jeremy Lin’s stock will rise or fall depending on how well he does at the NBA Draft Camp and his measurements. Many players move up based on their performance and their physical stats. Joe Alexander is someone that comes to mind that moved up because of his measurements. If Jeremy Lin gets drafted, I think he’ll get picked in the 2nd round and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that.
If Jeremy Lin were to have a NBA career, I only see it at PG maybe some limited time at SG. He also needs to develop a consistent J, which I think he will if he trains in the NBA. The Warriors are not a good fit for him, their team is in turmoil right now and I think he would be a better fit with a winning team. They are also way too disorganized, I think the Suns would be better if it’s a run n gun system he would play in. I think for Jeremy Lin to really showcase his skills he needs to be playing for a good coach and a team who already knows how to win, such as the Lakers or Spurs.
I actually think the Lakers would be a perfect situation for Jeremy Lin. The Lakers also have 2 2nd round picks, early and late. The triangle system doesn’t need a traditional PG, and emphasizes passing and spacing which would compliment Jeremy’s game. Also Phil Jackson, Kobe, and Derek Fisher I think would all be perfect mentors for Jeremy. The Zen Master favors players who are good passers and can hit the open J. Jeremy Lin has had to face many haters in his basketball career yet was able to use that as motivation, and what better player knows that kind of adversity than Kobe Bryant? Then add to the fact that Kobe Bryant is always looking to improve and works hard, and I think Jeremy Lin’s would develop and learn well under that type of work ethic. Then Derek Fisher, who is near the end of his career, would also be a perfect older vet that can help Jeremy adjust. Not to mention, the Lakers are already loved worldwide and have many fans in Asia as well. Jeremy Lin on the Lakers would just add to that rich history.
I will be extremely happy if Jeremy Lin gets into the NBA, but even happier if he becomes a Laker. He could literally be competing for that starting PG spot on the Lakers in a few seasons with them.
I could also see Jeremy Lin fitting in with teams that sometimes play 2 smaller guards in the backcourt, such as Dallas and Chicago. I would actually would like to also see Jeremy Lin play with the Rockets, Rick Adelman played Bibby/Jackson and now in Houston he plays Brooks/Lowry. Rockets actually might be a very good fit for Jeremy, not only because of Yao, but because the Rockets play with a lot of heart and energy. Portland might work as well.
Depends
IMO, J-Lin as I would like to call him, is the TRUTH. Not based on bias, but based on facts. As the article illustrates, J-Lin has all the tools to become a good NBA point guard. If someone like Carlos Arroyo can play in the NBA, I believe J-Lin belongs in the league as well. But of course, the NBA is similar to a high school, it’s a popularity contest. Asian-Americans across the country need to start spreading the word about J-Lin and tell other non-Asian Americans about him as well.
The best way for J-Lin to get into the NBA will be to get HYPE on him. Once there’s HYPE, there’s HOPE. So to all my Asian-American ballers out there, next time you’re hooping at your local 24 hour fitness, park or just watching basketball at home, bring up J-Lin into the conversation, make people want to Google, Youtube and hell FACEBOOK him. The more popular he becomes before the 2010 draft, the better his chances are. Could you imagine J-Lin wearing a Warriors basketball jersey in the Bay Area???? It could happen. NBA…..Where HOPE happens…
If Steve Blake can make it...
I believe Jeremy Lin can.
He got a Draft Express article!
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/NCAA-Weekly-Performers-121809-3359/
Again, a lot of the aspects to his game that this article describes I think will fit very well with the Lakers system. Phil Jackson loves players who can initiate the offense and get his teammates involved, which is why Luke Walton gets so much player time.The point guard spot in the triangle doesn’t necessarily need to handle the ball like most PGs either. I also like how it mentions that Jeremy Lin plays tough defense, even though he doesn’t have elite athleticism, similar to Derek Fisher but he’s probably quicker and taller.
Lakers have 2 2nd round draft picks, I hope they are really looking at him.
The Hype is growing!
Got another article about Jeremy Lin!
http://ncaabasketball.fanhouse.com/2009/12/25/lins-legend-grows-carries-harvard-with-it/
Scouting report vs Georgetown
I have to be honest with you, the last time I looked at the comments here, it was at about 88. Since then, it climbed up to 100 and I was literally afraid to read them.
Remember the coin-operated arcade game Star Wars? I felt like I was about to go to the Death Star, only to spend the whole session shooting down TIE fighters and their little fireball cannons on the perimeter and never really getting a chance to shoot down the Death Star itself!
Alas, I know when to turn off the fire hose. I’m not gonna over-hype Jeremy Lin at the GSoM level until he does another something which I might categorize as “amazing” (caveat: unless it’s to remind people about the January 4th game Harvard at Santa Clara back here in the Bay).
So, it was a pleasant surprise to come back here, to post the latest and greatest scouting report that I did on JL4 vs Georgetown (which will not be a full-on blogpost on GSOM), to find that we do have support out there. Most of the comments of late have been positive.
In any case, here’s the scouting report from the Georgetown game…
http://www.dreamleague.org/blog/scouts-honor-jeremy-lin-vs-georgetown/
Poor Man's Commish - newly relaunched!... http://dreamleague.org/blog
by Poor Man's Commish on Dec 27, 2009 2:50 PM PST reply actions
NBA scouts in stands in game vs. Garcia
This article from the Seattle Times states that 5 NBA scouts were in the stands in the game against U of Seattle, ostensibly to scout Garcia (who had a poor shooting night). No doubt they were also keeping an eye on Jeremy Lin, who had a strong all-around showing (and a great shooting night).
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2010678380_seattleu03.html
Given the strong showings Jeremy has already had in front of scouts in games vs. Big East competition (which have been his strongest showings), he is a well-known quantity to scouts by this point.
Ford says it's a weak PG draft
Not sure if someone else posted this (can’t read through all these comments), but something working in favor of Jeremy is the fact that this year’s draft is a weak one for point guards (at least according to Chad Ford):
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4754167&name=nba_draft
Unfortunately, Jeremy wasn’t listed in the top 5 combo guards in that article, but his continued strong showings since then might change that. More importantly, isn’t it important to note that Jeremy is a natural PG, rather than a combo guard? I believe he was a pure PG at Paly (and in the game against Mater Dei) and is playing more of an off-the-ball role at Harvard due to team needs, not because of his skill set.
by PDY on Jan 3, 2010 2:33 AM PST up reply actions
Not a "combo guard" and Bay Area Player of the Year article
By the way, if you’re newer to the Jeremy Lin story, here’s the article from the SF Chronicle awarding him Bay Area player of the Year honors (after the championship upset over Mater Dei):
http://articles.sfgate.com/2006-04-02/sports/17289185_1_jeremy-lin-mater-dei-palo-alto
He won the award over Drew Gordon (former UCLA player, not transferring out), among others.
Here were Lin’s HS senior year stats: 15.1 points 7.1 assists 4.8 steals and 6.2 rebounds. Seems pretty PG-ish to me, particularly when you consider that Lin led the run to the state title without dominating individual scoring numbers (meaning he orchestrated a group without other serious college-level players to a win over Mater Dei). When you consider that the “combo guard” designation is usually given to players who have been life-long SGs but are too short to play the position in the NBA, and if you believe that PGs are born and not raised, then I’d fight again classifying Lin as a “combo guard” (which mainly includes too-short-to-be-NBA-SG tweener failures like Joe Forte, Shawn Respert, Tony Delk, etc).
by PDY on Jan 3, 2010 3:05 AM PST up reply actions
COMPARE THIS
Poor competition in the Ivy? Fine. None of you realize that he has, in fact, proven himself outside of college-season ball.
He played this summer in the San Francisco ProAm League, considered by many to be one of the TOP amateur basketball leagues around. Landry Fields (from Stanford, and who NBA teams are DROOLING over this season), Jerome Randle (Cal) played this summer, and MANY former members of this league are now bonafide NBA players (Leon Powe, Jason Richardson to name a few).
How did he do? He didn’t crack the top ten in scoring (the 10th highest scorer averaged about 20 ppg), but he was among tops in steals and assists (as ANY elite point guard would!).
Jeremy can play with the best. FACT.

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