Trade idea from a Hornets fan
by jdpourciau on Dec 16, 2009 4:34 PM PST
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Sup dubs? Been a pretty cruddy year for both of our squads unfortunately. You guys have so many talented players. I just hope management and the coaches get it at some point. Oh well.
With talk of Randolph on the block, I figured that I would pitch my own trade idea. Here it goes.
David West and Hilton Armstrong and cahs for Randolph, 'Buike and Claxton.
Hornets get their 4 of the future before Nellie ruins him and crazy good cap space, and the Warriors get a two time all star/ jump shooting big man. Hilt is thrown in just for kicks, and to help us get under the luxury tax this year. We throw in the chas to pay his contract and it comes out aces. He's a pretty crappy player, but he gives you a good defender on an expiring contract. I know you guys wil miss Buike, but he is done for the year, and you'll be able to resign him next year provided that no one else offers a better deal.
Downside is pretty obvious. David West has no real upside. He is the player he will always be, maybe a little worse. He will never be the athletic or defensive presence Randolph is. Potential is sexy and D West doesn't have it. Additionally, unlike Amare, D West doesnt play the 5 a whole lote, and I'd imagine that Nelli would prefer to play him that spot. Also he isn't very fast. On top of all of that he doesnt' shoot the 3 much. So that's all the bad but honest stuff, just so you guys know I'm trying to argue from a pretty objective spot.
What D West does have is a low drama game that can operate well without killing ball movement. He is also a great floor spacer and owns one of the wettest mid range j's in the game. He is also a vet who is used to winning. He would be a perfect compliment to Biedrins, because they can both do the stuff that the other can't. D West is shorter but stouter, so he could take on more of the post d. Biedrins can play the Tyson Chandler to David West's David West. He can use his miblity to play weakside d and pick and roll d, and he will be able to stay on the floor longer as he will no longer be solely responsible for post defense. Offensively he also helps Biedrins because he operates well from the high post and thus frees up space in the middle. This is also great for Ellis because it opens up lanes for him.
Hornets get great cap space, and a fantastic compliment to both Chris Paul and to Okafor. In my opinion our two biggest issues right now are 1) post defence and 2) the lack of a fast break game. We allow a crapload of points in the paint. I think this is due to that lack of a more molible help defender in the paint. Mek is a great post defender but he is also a shot blocker, and when he is drawn out to the high post, David West lacks the foot speed to recover and help guard Mek's man. Randolph still has alot to learn, but I think he has the commitment , and the ability to be a good defender, and th rest will come.
Chris Paul is the perfect fast break guard, but he doesn't have the pieces to run. In order to run the fast break game well you need at least one fast big, and right now he has none. If you ever watch him you can see him beating two or 3 oppsing players down the lane, but he has no one to throw it two so he is forced to take it back to the top of the key.
So this is my idea. Thoughts?
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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No
Were not losing Buike and AR for someone who needs CP3 to be good and a worthless backup in Armstrong. If were losing AR, Maggs goes with him and for a star (we may throw in our pick for a Bosh guy). Heres my proposal, in the off season we do a Mo pete for Maggs swap. You guys get a wing scorer and we get to lose his contract. It’s a need for both sides.
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
Nah
if you replace CP3 with west then yes. But yeah buike and AR4>West
OWENS! OWENS! OWENS! OWENS!
- Joe Starkey
by 9ersDubsGiantSharks on Dec 16, 2009 4:42 PM PST reply actions
WOW!
I think you’d get charged w/ forced sodomy for that trade. No way CP3 is giving to us for that…seriously, you way over valuing Randolph and Buike if that’s the case.
oh no i meant that
david west needs a point guard like CP3, like Dubzfan said. should have cleared that up. I’d love to have david west over buike and ar4 if we had the right point guard right now
OWENS! OWENS! OWENS! OWENS!
- Joe Starkey
by 9ersDubsGiantSharks on Dec 16, 2009 4:53 PM PST up reply actions
Overall, not a bad trade idea.
Could work, not sure about the lack luster #‘s West has put up this year, but he has shown he can control the man handle the post @ times. Not sure he’d fit “Nellie” ball however. I see him as for of a 1/2 court player.
All fair comments
I’m at least glad the trade didin’t come off as insulting. I have a question though. Can’t Ellis run the pick and roll? Can Curry. West doesn’t need alot of help to get buckets so long as you are running the p and r. Other then that, you feed him when he is up against slow bigs or really small ones.
As for Buike, the only reason I even threw him in there was because he is done for the year, and his contract is up. We could replace him with someone else, though secretly I love Buike’s game, and if we made this move I’d want us to resign him in the offseason. Having said replacing his contract with the other exprings does the trick.
Matter of fact, make it Mikki, Speedy and AR for D West, and that comes out fine.
As for the Maggs move, I’m actually a big fan of Maggette’s game in the right system, but what I’’d really like to do with MoPete’s contract is trade is for Desagana Diop. He is wasting away in Charlotte, and he’d be the perfect packup big for us regardless of whether or not we traded West.
Also, Hornets have seriously luxury tax concerns for next year that will make it tough to add contracts.
I’d do this trade. Curry is capable of running the pick n’ roll. He dished it cleanly to Mikki Moore last game three times, twice Mikki dropped the ball and the third time he got his shot blocked.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Dec 16, 2009 5:44 PM PST up reply actions
Buike has a player option
Yes Curry can, he’s been a great passer and needs more time on the ball.
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
D'Antoni, Nellie both think Curry can be like Nash
not an awesome athlete but he’s very smart and developing nicely. More of a crafty PG.
you’re always welcome to give us CP3 too
I love David West but I think I love AR’s “potential” more. Call me a sucker.
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
He definitely has the potential to be better than David West. The real question is whether or not he will reach that potential here.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Dec 16, 2009 6:11 PM PST up reply actions
Well, everyone keeps saying “x player wouldn’t work with Nellie-ball…”
The way I see it, we only have this season and next season of Nellie-ball. Not that it’s tenable to sit through all that time, but there’s no reason the front office should cater to Nellie-ball given Nellie’s remaining tenure. Even if Keith Smart becomes Nellie’s successor, I don’t think he would adopt Small Ball. I think right now he’s respecting Nellie’s system and doing the best he can to coach on his behalf. Smart seems like a very respectful person so I think that’s plausible. Again, there’s no way you or I can prove that.
So, AR still can develop here…he just has to do the best he can for another season and a half. But, given the FO incompetency and impatience, it probably won’t happen here. History shows every ex-Warrior becomes a success story.
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Dec 16, 2009 6:16 PM PST up reply actions
And even if we do keep him until Nellie is gone, there’s still a good chance the next coach will be terrible too.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Dec 16, 2009 7:35 PM PST up reply actions
You don’t think Gary St. Jean would be perfect???
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Dec 16, 2009 10:11 PM PST up reply actions
I can barely watch him pre/post-game without committing suicide.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Dec 16, 2009 11:08 PM PST up reply actions
As long as you're here, Monsieur Ragin' Cajun...
Is there any possible, conceivable package that you would even in a million zillion years consider for Chris Paul?
Like, I dunno, Monta, Curry and Randolph? Or, if we lucked into Wall in the lottery … Wall, Curry, and Randolph?
Like most fans, I imagine, I’m not really interested in any of your players other than Paul. Maybe JuJu if you’re selling him at a bargain basement price…?
There will be no extra point!
Nope and here's why
Paul IS the Hornets both to NBA fans at large and to the city of New Orleans. People keep making all of these economic arguments about the Hornets trying to cut cap space and trading D West for a baloney sandwich (Zydrunas Illgauscas) or Okafor for an open can of coke (Kenny Thomas’s expiring contract).
But what htey just don’t realize is that however much money they may lose with a mediocre team with a large salary, they will ose even more money without Chris Paul. Whatever numbers have been thrown out there (and there have been some crap number, univerified numbers), the economic viability of this team is predicated on Crhis Paul.
He sells the merchandise, he puts the butts in seats, he’s the only way we have a hope of getting national games. He is the only way we make money. Also, our tickets are cheap so we have to sell alot of them to make money. The only way a trade is possible is if we are able to get a superstar that both gets us wins and is an already marketable player. PERIOD. Otherwise, the owenrship loses twice as much money as they do now. And all of that is from a rational economic perspective.
From an emotional perspective, the mere possiblity of CP not wearing our ugly colors makes me not want to watch the nba. The man saved basketball in the NO. He reenergized the sports base of the city while Aints were dissapointing. He is simply the most exciting basketball player that I have seen since Jordan. There is no other player that I would prefer to see play basketball then Chris Paul. He does stuff on the floor that violates several laws of physics, and he does with a small 6 foot frame in a game guilt for people much taller then him, and he does it with an f you snarl that shows his killer instinct is right up there with Kober and late 90’s AI. The guy is simply so much fun to watch, and when his teammates are hitting open 3’s, playing D, and running, there is simply no other sporting event that I would rather watch. And I say that as a die-hard southern football fan.
So that’s my answer. Good luck with the rest of the year guys. Y’all are a fantastic fan base, this is a great site, you have a bunch of young, exciting players, and I wish y’all the best of luck. Lastly, you wouldn’t know this because you can’t see me, but I’m Creole, not Cajun. It’s kind of like calling an Irishman an Italian. But no worries, now you know.
As for Juju- he is way available. Great player, good kid, but he can’t shoot so he doesn’t fit our system. CP3 has to have wings who can hit an open j, and bigs who can run (he’s got neither right now which is why we are where we are). I still believe he can play ball. For you guys I think he’d be a fantastic 4 with good energy, and the ability to run the floor, and defend anybody on the other squad. It’s unfortunate, but I think e gets traded for cash.
“CP3 has to have wings who can hit an open j, and bigs who can run”
Then, for the sake of his happiness and productivity as a player, put him on the next flight to Oakland.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
"CP3 has to have wings who can hit an open j, and bigs who can run"
Sadly he doesn’t need any of this to still be 1 of the top 5 most efficient players in the league. but the idea of him w/ 2 wings who could hit open shots and bigs who can run and run a pick and roll is just unfair. CP3 switched for monta (and assuming we stay healthy) GSW is a playoff team
He reenergized the sports base of the city while Aints were dissapointing
So maybe we have a chance now? ;-)
Sorry ‘bout the Creole/Cajun mixup. You gotta give me a little credit for detecting the distinctly French flavor of your screen name, tho, no? I actually did a little googling to remedy my near-total ignorance on the subject and found that perhaps it’s not always that clear of a distinction?
Not all Cajuns descend solely from Acadian exiles who settled in south Louisiana in the eighteenth century, as many have intermarried with other groups. Their members now include people with ancestry of British, Spanish, German, Italian, Native American, Métis and French Creole settlers. Historian Carl A. Brasseaux asserted that it was this process of intermarriage that created the Cajuns in the first place.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cajun
Anyway, thanks for the kind words about Warrior Nation. I’ve never been to New Orleans, but I always have a very romantic image of it. Big props on your great city, your otherworldly PG (I totally understand your hard-line stance on him), and your newly resurgent “Aints”…
There will be no extra point!
You know, while I might not make this trade because obviously I’m a homer for our own players….this is probably the most reasonable trade proposal I’ve ever seen on the internet from the standpoint of the arguments you’re making. They all make a lot of sense. That never happens. I, for one, am impressed.
I wouldn't do it
Its not a horrible deal, but I think we should be able to get a little more than David West for Randolph and two solid bench players. In this scenario it seems like we’d be getting quite a bit less than David West as we’d also be taking on bad contracts.
Thing A
little more than David West for Randolph
If we could squeeze Maggette in the deal and take back one of NO’s shorter or smaller bad contracts (Posey or Peja), then maybe. But the trade still doesnt make us better right now and I dont see how that trade prepares better for the future.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Dec 18, 2009 12:55 PM PST up reply actions
Peterson for Maggette
Must be the base of any trade with NO right now.
Peterson, Collison, Wright for Maggette, Watson
Yes
And I can’t believe any of you are saying no. What has Randolph shown honestly? Other than getting lit up on the court daily by Monta for being out of position ALL the time and not knowing plays. I just don’t have faith in Randolph ever developing into something special cause he lacks basketball IQ. Crazy athlete, below average basketball player. L et’s not forget he’s in an ideal situation to excel (with all the injuries and he can’t get out of not 1 but 2 coaches doghouses!!! He is overvalued.
If he was the big time PF prospect he is suppose to be we could easily package him w/ maggette for a star player. Maggette may have a poor contract but a budding star PF who is 20 and on rookie pay scale would more than justify an overpaid but highly efficient 6th man. Clearly the league sentiment about Randolph is, he isn’t
Positives: West is a below average rebounder @ the 4 but better than buike, maggette, radmonovic and our current 4s. He is a good scorer, great in the pick and pop and pick and role. And he has a very fair contract (declining from 9 mil to 8 to 7.5)
Hilton is pretty comparable to Turiaf. Actually almost exactly comparable. Eitherway he’s an adept backup 5. Making it possible to move Ronnie to 4 or just plain move Ronnie.
Negatives: Losing Buike, but as it stands he will walk in 2011. Gambling on Randolphs potential. It is risky, but we all forget we still have Brandan Wright in the wings.
If possible i’d love to throw in MAggette 4 MO.P too
You know, I thought higher of David West before I went and looked at his stats. Let’s compare him and Randolph.
Randolph (2009-2010 per 36 minutes):
18.2 points, 10.4 rebounds, 1.8 assists, 1.3 steals, 2.1 blocks, 2.0 TO’s, .511 TS%
West (2009-2010 per 36 minutes):
16.8 points, 7.3 rebounds, 2.5 assists, .7 steals, .7 blocks, 2.0 TO’s, .521 TS%
by Missing Barry on Dec 17, 2009 10:19 AM PST up reply actions
Sadly me too....
But then i took a step back. I’ve seen both play more than enough to gauge there games. I don’t know if it’s because I’m increasingly down on Randolph or what. I just don’t see it in him. Always out of control, making dumb plays. Rookie inconsistency is one thing, but he is such a case of awesome athleticism vs. little basketball ability.
I really just want BWright back:
16.0 points, 8.7 rebounds, 1.0 Assists, 0.9 steals, 2.0 blocks, 1.2 TOs, .574 TS%
Unlike Randolph he is a basketball player and not just an athlete
The TOs and TS% make me miss him even more.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Dec 17, 2009 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
I think there is way too much knee jerk reactions going on
If we can package Randolph with others for a legitimate big man, sure, get it done if its going to make us a better team. The guy is 20 years old! Think about your level of maturity at that age, and if you aren’t there yet, just wait till you are a few years removed. Of course there are the glaring mistakes, but I for one have seen some noticeable improvements from last season to this one. About 1 in every 4 games he is on his defensive assignments, plays within his offensive game, hustles, and for the most part seems under control. Time will only help to make this guy a more mature and focused player, and if Nelson or Smart would just let Randolph play through mistakes, I think he would learn things a lot faster. Players tend to play worse when they fear being pulled for mistakes, a la Curry this year as well. I know I’m biased because Randolph is one of my favorites on the team, but big men, especially young ones, take a long time to develop. Remember young Jermaine O’Neal? He didn’t develop in to a dominant player until his 5th season in the NBA, when the Blazers had already given up on him. Randolph might never develop into the player we all hoped for, but given that we aren’t going to make the playoffs this year, why not let the kids play more and see what comes of it. Its not like games aren’t excruciating to watch anyways.
by Pearlsofwisdom on Dec 17, 2009 3:48 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Remember young Jermaine O’Neal? He didn’t develop in to a dominant player until his 5th season in the NBA, when the Blazers had already given up on him.
A little unfair. He also had rasheed, sabonis, brian grant, detlef schremf all ahead of him. Anthony Randolph cannot get consistant time w/ radmanovic and mikki moore ahead of him.
Anthony Randolph cannot get consistant time w/ radmanovic and mikki moore ahead of him.
While that’s obviously been true, we all know that Randolph has been the best of those 3 when he’s played….so that one’s on the coaches…
by Missing Barry on Dec 18, 2009 12:34 AM PST up reply actions
statistically yes
I just have a hard time believing both smart and nellie have it OUT for him. Point being he still makes ALOT of mistakes….
Nevertheless,
they gave up on him. I agree completely with Pearlsofwisdom. I can not believe that the Warriors are giving up on AR this early. Isn’t this obvious to everyone that Don Nelson is completely responsible? Sure, Anthony thinks he’s earned unconditional PT because he worked in the off-season, and maybe he’s even dumb enough to think that it’s made him good enough now to earn 40 minutes a night or whatever he thinks he deserves. Whatever the case may be, we lose in the end, not Randolph. David West is not going to make this team significantly better now, and most definitely not in the future. What’s worse, that’s probably the best we can do right now.
Trading a 20 year old with his kind of upside, no more than 40 games after declaring him “untradable” is equivalent to drunkenly leaving a New Years Eve Party before the count down, and suffocating on your own scream-muffled vomit after accidentally shooting off your own toe. Looks like we’re going to miss the party on another great player that fell right into our laps. The most ironic part of that is that the Warriors aren’t acclimated to tricking fate often enough to their benefit. As much as “some” people (Rowell, idiots, and other fools) claim Mullin wasn’t capable of collecting a playoff team because of overpaying the wrong players, and other phantom reasons, we sure as hell looked a whole lot better when he was here. Bigger than the J-Rich or Baron loss, was the Mullin departure.
I’d rather be known as franchise who overpays their players, than one that constantly tries to underhand them. Am I in the minority of fans who liked Mullin running the show? I trusted his vision. When he talked, people listened. Now look at us. Nothing is more unbecoming than a delusional micro phallus who trips over his own feet. Rowell is such a cowardly disgrace of a wanna be capitalist. Somehow it’s all relevant to what’s happening right here and now with the Randolph situation. You’ve got a delusional fool in Rowell who absolutely rapes and disrespects Mullin, then hot-potatoes the responsibility to a fading coach (who’s too drunk to catch it) because he realizes his feet are too small, and then you got us, the stupid fans stuck in the middle supporting the whole stinking, sinking ship one dollar at a time.
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