Recap: Spurs 103, Warriors 91- Oh the humanity
by jae on Dec 17, 2009 8:21 AM PST
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PrintOriginally posted Dec 17, 2009 12:21 AM PST
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Warriors Web Links: Nellie's back, Moore's out
I had not heard that Mikki Moore was injured until well after the game, so it came as something of a surprise that he was not in the starting lineup. He wasn't at the shoot-around either. Was this it? Had a big deal gone down where he and the rest of the expiring contracts had been packaged for something resembling the foundation of a basketball team? Sadly, no.
Moore's absence simply meant that someone else would have to pick up the slack of being on the court for a quarter and a half without accomplishing a thing. And try as they might, the rest of the team found out that such was no easy task. That level of inconspicuous nothing takes more than most of this rag-tag crew had in them.
Vladimir Radmanovic, who pretended to be a big man for much of the game, tried, but in his time on the court, Vlad simply missed too many shots. To accomplish nothing one must find quieter means of futility. Miss one or two and you can be forgotten, but fire up miss after miss like he did and you're likely to stand out.
Stephen Curry's noble attempt also failed to capture the essence of Moore, as (and I'm operating off of memory since I've yet to check a box score) his 458 fouls (plus or minus a few) attract too much attention.
And while eyes are still on Anthony Randolph, he's unlikely to fill out as many empty, unnoticed minutes. He should still try to take most of his shots no more than an arm's length from the rim. With even fewer big men to compete for playing time with, Randolph appeared to settle for jumpers above the key. If he took a shot in the paint, it was while I was distracted by the guys behind me making up stories about golf. ("So, you know Mike is a real good golfer I'd heard, but he hasn't been playing in years. Still he went out and shot a... [pause to make up a number that's not so low as to be unbelievable, but not so high as to possibly not sound impressive enough] ...a 73 [nailed it!] on a course in Phoenix on our last business trip there. Apparently, Mike played at Dook [where they have their own course, and it's real hard to make the team there. The only way to make the team is to shoot 7 under par or better for 3 rounds in 3 days, while also dragging a Volkswagen around the course using only your teeth or some other ridiculous rite of passage suggesting that in most years they'd never actually field a full squad]. So you know he's gotta have a whole lot of talent!") Anthony does have a real nice stroke from the right elbow though. He's deadly there. Unfortunately, from the *left* elbow and more or less anywhere else on the court, he may as well just hand the ball over to the opposition. It's not going in and we're not getting a rebound.
No, if there was a Warrior Wonder as in "I wonder where he was because I didn't seem to notice him at all tonight" it goes to Anthony Morrow. I didn't remember him doing anything in the second half, and wondered why, when we could have used the shooters to try to stay in the game, he wasn't playing more. That was until my friend in the seat next to me pointed out that he was actually in the game, and had been for much of the second half.
It's tough to really call this a team right now. It's more of an entourage where all the members just happen to be Turtle. Monta certainly shined above the rest. The ball seemed to find his hands in the right place and he seemed to be moving just that much faster and that much more smoothly than anyone nearby him (which was good when that guy is a Spur, but not so good when that guy is a Warrior). All critique of his ball-hogged ways that have been too frequent of late, tonight, *just watching him play*, it's clear that he can do quite a bit of good on the court and remains one reason to watch. He may not be an "all-star" and as a centerpiece of a winning team, he may always be lacking in some important regard, but he's also capable of dazzling grace on the court. We can lose games without him, but we'd miss out on some true on-court poetry in the process.
The Spurs made it interesting. They aren't particularly exciting and the Warriors led at halftime, but they just played with a quiet confidence where you knew that inevitably, they'd be around when the third quarter collapse hit. It did. They were. Even knowing that you are watching a certain future Hall of Famer in Duncan, his hand heavy with championship rings really doesn't spice up the methodical Spurs. If there's a player who actually caught my attention, it was DeJuan Blair. If he's "undersized" he sure doesn't look it in terms of his presence on the court. Maybe his head is a few inches below that of a "legitimate NBA bigman" but his presence is no shorter. When there's a shot off the rim to pull down, he looks like he's about 8 feet tall. And sure, his knees are held together with duct-tape and zip-ties and looking at him you get the impression that he's bound to be corpulent sooner or later, at which point he may no longer be fit for NBA duty. But until then, he's there where he needs to be, looking huge and doing what needs to be done.
Other observation: there are a whole lot of fans in jerseys of players who now play elsewhere around the association. Particularly cute was the couple sporting the (his) Jackson and (her) Richardson models walking hand in hand out of the arena after the game. Unlike about 60% of the attendees, they stayed 'til the bitter end.
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According to Nellie’s post-game, it seems that the whole Randolph-chucking-up-jumpers was part of the plan.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Dec 17, 2009 12:55 AM PST reply actions
Definitely seemed that way… he hasn’t been doing that at all lately, and you can’t say that he looked thrilled about it.
Ladies and gentlemen, your Golden State Worriers.
Yeah, I guess they wanted to pull Duncan away from the basket
by Badly Browned on Dec 17, 2009 7:14 AM PST up reply actions
should get someone in here to teach him how to play the post.....
instead of encouraging him to chuck it from 20 feet away.
how do you know they aren’t? Andris can work on his FT’s 14/7 365 and he still won’t be a good FT shooter. POB can work on his skyhook 14/7 365 – doesn’t mean it’s going to go down with any consistency. for as much as JRich supposedly worked on his post game with Mitch Richmond, it did him little good.
if you’ve ever seen pregame warm ups or played against NBA guys in random pick up games, you’d be surprised what they can do against lesser competition. but if they try it against NBA guys in an NBA practice, it fails miserably. if it fails in practice when guys aren’t going all out, it’s likely to fail in real games.
they’re only encouraging him to do what he is good at – which they believe is face up jumpers from the top. though he’s actually only good from that right elbow out (to 23’8")
by homer simpson on Dec 17, 2009 9:44 AM PST up reply actions
14/7? Now that’s the problem. Andris is taking 10 hours a day off from working on FTs. No wonder he stinks at it!
heh, you gotta factor in sleeping, eating & commute, right?
by homer simpson on Dec 17, 2009 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
lol. clearly you should have Scott Ostler’s job (deep thoughts, cheap shots & bon mots).
by homer simpson on Dec 17, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
Hillarious..
when Nellie says “he’s really good shooting from the top of the key anyway” – must be referring to the three air-balls on the road trip taken from the baseline.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
That wasn't as bad a loss as I thought it would be
Perhaps I’m just numb now from all these 3rd qtr collapses, or the injury list is so deep, that I’ve thrown all expectations out the window.
I do feel bad for Radman and the booing. I know the fans are frustrated by his failure to hit anything. But I thought he did a good job forcing Tim Duncan to take longer shots. Ah well. Radman was a Laker, and the Lakers fans boo their team at halftime when they play poorly, so maybe it will fire him up.
I thought Maggette had a really good game, playing to his strengths of driving and scoring or drawing the foul, playing mostly near the basket. The few times that I had my eye on Curry, he looked more confident and assertive with his moves and his shot.
I thought the pace of the game was good for Randolph, as he looked pretty good and in rhythm, except when he was matched up with Duncan, who ate him alive. That and his failure to box out his man twice early in the 4th qtr that caused a Nellie yank. Randolph just watched the ball while his man ran by him to get the offensive rebound. I immediately thought of Brandan Wright from last season, who got yanked for the same reason, for watching the shot and not trying to boxing out.
Funnily enough, several defensive possessions later, Hunter DID try to box out his man when the Spurs took a shot, but Hunter could not budge his man, and the bounce went over Hunter and straight to his man, who passed it back out and the Spurs hit their second try shot. Nellie immediately got up to call for Randolph to come back in.
Oh well, next game please.
It looked like that all 2nd half, whenever they had Duncan matched up with Randolph, they attacked him and AR, with a couple exceptions, got schooled.
Vlad did a little better on D, but by god he really needs his shot back.
by Badly Browned on Dec 17, 2009 7:16 AM PST up reply actions
I just looked at the plus-minus and Radman was neutral. Tough to do when you miss every single one of your shots and don’t seem to be able to rebound at all. Random noise?
In the first half, it was obvious that Maggette was trying real hard on D, trying to just push his man away. I’m surprised he wasn’t whistled on every single possession in a way. If he could put in that sort of effort at his natural position with some big men to hand the truly huge opponents, we’d have a prayer. Against Duncan it wasn’t enough.
I just looked at the plus-minus and Radman was neutral. Tough to do when you miss every single one of your shots and don’t seem to be able to rebound at all. Random noise?
Pretty much the textbook definition of it. I don’t dislike Vlad or fault his effort, and other than two really misconceived drives, he took shots he should’ve taken. But he was not doing anything productive out there… he just happened to be on the court for Monta and Maggette’s best spurts.
Ladies and gentlemen, your Golden State Worriers.
I really have to give more props to Monta last night. I don’t know what it was, but it was significantly better than he’s been the last several games. I didn’t look at the box score until long after I wrote my review, but the numbers he put up more or less meshed exactly with my memory “just watching”. He took a ton of shots but for the most part, they were shots that he can and did make a good percentage of the time. He took what the defense gave him pushed just enough to keep them more than honest. If he always plays like that, we won’t ever want to get rid of him.
With a real big man (and it could have been Randolph if he wasn’t taking stupid shots he has never shown any ability to make) things could have been more interesting.
Totally agree on Monta… he took what he was given, plus just a few more to put them back on their heels. With decision-making like that, I will never begrudge his misses.
I’m no bigger fan of Randolph taking those shots than you, but it does bear repeating that Nellie wanted him to take those shots. It’s been a couple weeks since Randolph got jumper-happy; there’s not much reason to think that he’s hell-bent on shooting from the perimeter. Nellie’s game plan dictated that he needed to, and it cost us.
Ladies and gentlemen, your Golden State Worriers.
Nellie’s game plan dictated that he needed to, and it cost us.
This is funny – b/c everyone sees Nellie as this mad scientist looking to go small and begrudges him for that. But I would ask you – who on our roster would you match up with Duncan and what advantage would they have, either offensively or defensively?
When Nelson is faced with a premier player on the other team he looks to at least negate their advantage with what is always referred to as the match up difficulties of going small. Sure you give away some on the defensive end – but in theory at least – you gain on the offensive end with quickness and pulling the center away from the basket. It didn’t work last night but that’s not bad coaching that’s bad playing. AR followed the game-plan and didn’t execute well enough for a win.
Let’s suppose we had Beidrins healthy – I would argue that the right move against Duncan is to still go small b/c AB (and any other big on GSW roster) has no post offense against Duncan’s post defense and no post defense against Duncan’s post offense – double advantage Duncan.
Vladamir was supposed to do the same thing and it was the right coaching move to make. The Nellie haters act like he would bench Shaq (in his prime) in favor of Raef Lafrentz if he were coaching the two of them – it’s ridiculous.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
Randolph has no post game
The reason Nellie encourage outside shots for Randolph is that he doesn’t think Randolph has a post game. If Randolph developed some kind of go-to, reliable move in the post, I’m sure Nellie would want him on the block instead.
But I would ask you – who on our roster would you match up with Duncan and what advantage would they have, either offensively or defensively?
This is the exact kind of reductive, mismatch-centric thinking that has been causing us to suck for the past fourteen months.
It’s not about getting an advantage over Tim Duncan. It’s about getting an advantage over the San Antonio Spurs. We don’t have anybody that’s going to match what Duncan can do, but in aggregate, it is possible to beat their team. The way to do that is to
1) emphasize your best weapons on offense (we did, with Monta and Maggs);
2) use your best weapons to set up open threes (we didn’t);
3) try to play big enough so that the rebounding/inside gap is minimized (we didn’t).
Rebounds are critically important in every single NBA game, no matter your strategy. You don’t pull Andris Biedrins from the floor simply because Tim Duncan can outproduce him on offense and negate him on defense — even if Andris goes 0-for-8 with nine rebounds, you still need those rebounds. And if you want to claim that Andris won’t get those rebounds because Duncan would overpower him, you would be, well, wrong. Biedrins averaged 13.7 boards per 36 against the Spurs last year.
The goal of a basketball is not to do something that your opponents aren’t used to. That can help you, but it doesn’t necessarily help you, and last night was a prime example. The Spurs’ attitude last night was palpable: “Wait, they’re going to try to beat us by having Radmanovic and Randolph shoot jumpers? Well… hell. All right.”
Mismatches are not worthwhile goals in and of themselves. Open your eyes.
Ladies and gentlemen, your Golden State Worriers.
Mismatches are not worthwhile goals in and of themselves.
Basketball is a game of mismatches. It’s hard to argue that as constructed we would have any advantage against the Spurs (or most other teams). The fact that Nellie is bemoaned for trying to gain one is laughable.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
Basketball is a game of mismatches.
Vlad vs. Duncan trades a good bit of rebounding and shot-affecting competitiveness to get jump shots for a below-average NBA player in the middle of a slump. Is it worthwhile nonetheless simply because it’s a mismatch? Hell, why don’t we put CJ on Duncan? That’d make for a hell of a mismatch!
Basketball is a game of mismatches, but it involves a lot more than that too; moreover, the mismatches have to be well-chosen. Last night’s wasn’t. To pretend otherwise is to drink so much Nellie Kool-Aid as to contract early-onset diabetes.
Ladies and gentlemen, your Golden State Worriers.
once again...
with the roster he had last night – it’s the only realistic option that gives him the best chance to win. It didn’t work – so what – not a lot does with this team. Heck why don’t you blame Nelson for Morrow losing his shooting touch or give him credit for Morrow’s natural ability – they are about on par for blaming this teams losses and lack of talent on coaching.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
Even with injuries, we are not the fourth-least-talented team in basketball… lack of talent alone does not explain us sucking to this degree. If you can’t see that, what can I say? Good day to ya. Has been fun chatting.
Ladies and gentlemen, your Golden State Worriers.
we are not the fourth-least-talented team in basketball
You’re right, we’re probably the least talented team in basketball. Even if “talent” can be separated objectively from output, as your post implies, we don’t have a lot of it. You can’t say the Wolves or the Sixers or even the Nets don’t have talented guys, and in any case, at least they have twelve of them. What we have, on the other hand, are five decently talented smalls and three untalented bigs, none of whom you can rely on over the course of a game. Radman and Hunter are pretty low on the NBA talent spectrum, and Randolph is, well, Randolph.
This current incarnation of GS Warriors… we’re not underrated, unmotivated, or mismanaged. We Just Suck.
Anthony Randolph is a good NBA player, mistakes and all; Monta, Maggette and CJ are all better than “decent”, and Morrow is extremely useful. That ain’t much, but it’s more than enough to put us over the Nets (especially till Devin Harris gets fully healthy), the Wolves (look at their roster again) and the Knicks. The Granger-less Pacers are less talented than we are, and they’ve won three of their last four. The Kings, like us, only have little guys and one big worth a damn (and barely more of a damn than Randolph)… they’re running friggin’ circles around us. Is Tyreke Evans really ten times better than Monta Ellis, or is Paul Westphal just doing a better job than our guys?
Yes, our smallness really, really hurts. We would be struggling no matter what. But the excuses just don’t add up to the degree that Nellie apologists want them to. We have five truly above-average players in uniform, plus Anthony Morrow, and that’s enough to win ten games out of twenty-five. Having five or six useful guys is a lot more important than having twelve dressable bodies.
Ladies and gentlemen, your Golden State Worriers.
you know what, I typed up a bunch of crap but you’re right. Compared to the Kings or the Pacers we just don’t look like a team ready to execute on the same level. We usually look like a bunch of guys playing streetball and that’s the worst thing that can be said about coaching. (aside from players showing up to games with mysterious cuts and bruises)
Good point!
Kings have a similar roster and better results. What could be the difference……
Possibly someone who starts Radmonovic at the five?
lack of talent alone does not explain us sucking to this degree.
I believe it does. We have been competitive it most of the games – we just haven’t won many.
Now I guess it’s just a matter of perspective and we can agree to disagree. On the one hand the fact that we are competitive may (as you seem to be arguing) have something to do with our talent level exceeding their abhorrently bad coaching OR it may have something to do with our coaches squeezing every ounce of talent out of this roster just to be competitive. Either way you slice it – it doesn’t amount to many wins.
And I would argue that the record we have achieved thus far does indeed suck; but the team itself has not sucked nearly as bad as one would expect given the circumstances surrounding the roster.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
Every team in the NBA is going to be competitive most nights. I don’t think that we should be high-fiving each other for keeping the game within 5 points midway through the 4th quarter or leading by 2 at halftime. It’s not like we’re trotting out five Mikki Moores every night—we still have some NBA players. (And we all know that good teams have another gear they can kick into when needed, which we certainly do not.)
Here are a few of our problems:
1) A lack of talent
2) Flawed coaching
3) Horrible chemistry
4) Some crippling contracts
5) Altogether piss-poor management.
What’s the easiest problem to fix? I’d argue coaching. If something ain’t working, a coach can try something else. And if the coach can’t do anything that works, you can fire him: there are no deadlines, no salary caps involved, you just have to suck it up and eat the last coach’s salary. No, it’s not going to fix the other problems (except maybe for chemistry issues), but it’s something.
it’s not going to fix the other problems (except maybe for chemistry issues), but it’s something.
Right – and after being a GSW fan for 20 years this is not a good enough reason. Not to mention an extremely flawed strategy for improvement.
At least we agree on #1. But I still fail to realize how that’s the coaches fault.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
Ah, you prescribe the infallible “do nothing” strategy for improvement. Unfortunately, the Warriors have tried that one, too.
I’m not saying the team should act in haste, because that’s certainly never a recipe for success. But really, is moving on from Nelson a hasty move? A 70 year old coach who will be around for one more year at the most, who fails to get the most out of his team, who admittedly works far less than other head coaches?
…who has forced us to make unfavorable trades by alienating players, who is alienating to of our best current players, whose laziness has become a running joke in the national media…
Ladies and gentlemen, your Golden State Worriers.
tWo
Ladies and gentlemen, your Golden State Worriers.
Furthermore...
Just rest on the fact that we are a bad team right now. Coaching does not fix bad rosters. And while you may be getting your panties in a bunch by telling me to open my eyes I’m not arguing that Beidrins wouldn’t get rebounds or that rebounds are not important. I’m arguing that blaming everything on Nelson and the coaches is pedestrian at best. Nelson exploited the mismatches against Dallas a few years ago and everyone sang his praises – now with an inextricably poorer roster you (and not just you – but you for the sake of this post) want to condemn him as having lost touch with reality. You coach the roster you have – not the one you wish you had.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
We are, indeed, not a good team right now. Thanks to injuries and departures, we have not had great talent on hand for the last 107 games. But the talent we have had on hand has been capable of more than a 36-71 record.
You coach the roster you have – not the one you wish you had.
You should do that. Nellie doesn’t. When Baron left, Nellie cast Jack as Baron; when Jack left, Nellie cast Monta as Baron. Didn’t work. When Al left, Nellie cast Maggette as Al. Didn’t work. Nellie has cast Vladimir Radmanovic as a 30-minute-a-night guy. Hasn’t worked. Last night, Nellie cast Anthony Randolph as a jump shooter. Didn’t work.
No coaching strategy would have us over .500 right now. But even when you’re bad, you can do things to get a little better. Playing small and forcing your bigs to shoot jumpers, regardless of context, whether or not it’s working, no matter who your most talented players are… that’s not optimal.
Nellie got credit for the Dallas series because his creativity made us better. Since the beginning of last season, his creativity has made us worse. The goal is not to be creative, the goal is to compete. And last night, as with so many in the last fourteen months, a bigger, more boring lineup would’ve given us a better shot at that.
Ladies and gentlemen, your Golden State Worriers.
I think casting Monta as Baron is working out okay. If anything, Monta is a better first option now than Baron ever was.
Rad… I have no idea what’s going on with him. You do not get paid for 10 years in this league as a shooter shooting the way he is shooting. I expect him to regress to his mean shooting-wise, he’s already bumping up his 3pt% from 19% to 26% for us. As for everything else, at least he tries with the limited tools available to him, which is more than I (or Nellie probably) expected given his space cadet reputation.
I thought Randolph as a jump shooter was okay. Duncan didn’t seem to dominate defensively from what I remember. Playing Randolph inside against Duncan, he would not only have been destroyed, but our other players would have too with Duncan helping. The problem I think is more that AR isn’t good at anything offensively right now.
I’m not saying that unconventionality when you’re bad is always the right move, but I don’t know if conventionality would have gotten us anywhere last night. Throwing out something like Monta/Morrow/Radman/AR/Hunter, like some fans probably wanted, would have slowed us down on the break, clogged us up in the halfcourt, and probably not helped too much defensively. I don’t think we were out-bigged last night; the Spurs just had 10 solid guys ready to go, one of whom was Tim Duncan. Ballgame.
I think casting Monta as Baron is working out okay. If anything, Monta is a better first option now than Baron ever was.
When Monta’s on the floor, we get outscored by eight points per 48 minutes… that’s the pace of about a 21-61 team.
When Monta’s off the floor, we outscore our opponents by twelve points per 48 minutes. We don’t just outplay them, we slaughter them.
The latter figure is surely something of a fluke. But casting Monta Ellis as Baron Davis has been nothing short of disastrous. Monta Ellis is on pace to have the worst plus-minus in NBA history. He’s playing hard and often well, but using him as our first, last and only option is suicide.
Ladies and gentlemen, your Golden State Worriers.
Throwing out something like Monta/Morrow/Radman/AR/Hunter, like some fans probably wanted, would have slowed us down on the break, clogged us up in the halfcourt, and probably not helped too much defensively.
I wouldn’t have wanted to see that lineup by any means. But what about Curry, Monta, Maggette, Vlad and Randolph? Replacing CJ for Randolph doesn’t make us slow, and doesn’t clog us up in the halfcourt… it would probably have helped defensively, and certainly would’ve helped on the glass.
With our roster, small-and-speedy and big-and-slow is a false choice. We can give ourselves a better chance at rebounds and still play a fast, ball-hawking, slashing style, with smaller and quicker guys at every position. The problem is not going small… the problem is going excessively, pointlessly, cartoonishly small.
Ladies and gentlemen, your Golden State Worriers.
Not to belabor a point but…
The goal is not to be creative, the goal is to compete.
Exactly – we were leading at half time against a much better team. That’s competitive. I’ll go so far as to say that when we cut it to 5 in the fourth quarter we had a chance to win this game. That’s competitive. Just the fact that we didn’t win doesn’t mean the coaching failed us – the game plan was working and keeping us competitive was it not?
Also, to say:
The Spurs’ attitude last night was palpable:is redundant – they were going to play their style of ball no matter what we did. Popovich is not Avery Johnson.
And your argument about our talent being capable of more than a 36-71 record is highly debatable. When asked before the season started if Nelson would get to the 23 wins needed to break the record Chris Webber chuckled and said I don’t think so – this team is going to struggle especially if they get rid of Jackson. Seem pretty prescient right now.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
the game plan was working and keeping us competitive was it not?
Through the first half? Sure. This is a common pattern, though: we go small in the first half and confuse our opponents. They make adjustments at halftime. We don’t. They come out and calmly dismantle smallball in the third quarter. We’ve lost our last four third quarters by an average of over ten points a game… I mean, teams are just squashing us.
That’s obviously on Smart too, not just Nellie. But it makes the point. It’s not that smallball can never work… it’s that if you only play smallball, a team will figure out how to counteract it and beat you. All smallball, all the time, can’t work. Now, of course injuries have shrunk us down… at least some smallball is inevitable right now. But we should at least give it a chance of working by putting Randolph out there to soak up rebounds and affect shots. Starting Vlad at the five — a guy who can’t body up fours, let alone fives — gives us no chance.
As for Chris Webber’s prediction, well, Webber is one of several thousand pundits who predicted our record, and almost none of them were as pessimistic as him. If Chris Webber were some type of supercomputer, you might have a point. But I can point to a dozen pundits who are savvier than Webber that thought we had the talent to be competitive.
Ladies and gentlemen, your Golden State Worriers.
OK...
If we had cut it to 5 in the 4th quarter we were still competitive in the second half.
Also, I’m not here arguing for the genius of smallball – my original rebuttal was that blaming the GSW problems/losses on bad coaching is simplistic at best. Nelson uses smallball – yes. Would he use something else (Like starting a 7’6" center who can play) if his roster dictated it – yes.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
When Baron left, Nellie cast Jack as Baron; when Jack left, Nellie cast Monta as Baron. Didn’t work. When Al left, Nellie cast Maggette as Al.
There in lies the problem with the roster. Baron is a natural leader of men – not easy to come by by any means – losing him thrust various people into a role they are ill-equipped to fill. Jax did an admirable job last year saying all the right things – but obviously his effort was disingenuous as others waited for the other shoe to drop and drop it did this off-season. Jax is a role player not a natural leader. This team lacks a leader RIGHT NOW. Monta is trying to become one and time will tell if he is successful.
I have to say that it’s encouraging to hear Maggette say things like “Monta’s trying to lead this team” b/c as the elder statesmen it’s not easy to sit back and be led by a guy 6-7 years your junior. Jax couldn’t do it – which is why he went to Rowell and asked for more pay – saying “I can’t lead when the younger guys are making more money than me”. Once again conditional leadership – not natural leadership.
Also, I don’t think Nellie wants Maggette to become AL – aside from being a sixth man. Nellie wanted AL to step outside and bring the bigs out – you know “small ball”. AL didn’t like it and wanted to be a twenty point scorer – whatever. Nellie wants Maggette on the block creating fouls and doing what it is that Maggette does best. If Nelson wanted him out at 3-point land then I would be on your side in hating that idea. But Maggette has attempted like 23 tres this year – like one a game. If he needs that to see if his shot feels good and possibly keep the defense honest – no reason to boo. Aggravating at a 20% clip – yes, reason to boo him – no.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
Baron really wasn’t the emotional “leader” that some people seem to remember… he was just an awesome player. The problem with casting other guys in his role is not about leadership, it’s about talent. Our offense is still designed to work through one brilliant improvisational talent. Baron was one, Jack wasn’t, Monta doesn’t seem to be. Hence, we should probably change our offense, so one guy doesn’t have to try to dredge everything up out of nowhere. There are NBA offenses that can work that way.
And when I say that Nellie has cast Maggette as Al, I don’t mean that he’s forcing Maggette to shoot threes. I mean that he’s using another smallish, quicker player at the four and hoping to have the same success. It doesn’t work, because Maggette 1) doesn’t have the reliable three-point shot that makes using a smaller four worthwhile, and 2) can’t body up fours the way Al could. With Al, the mismatch was often effective, because he could spread the floor on offense and sorta hold his own on D. Maggette is the opposite: he gets torched on D, but he gets no corresponding mismatch on offense. He can often bull past power forwards to the hoop, but he’d been doing that with small forwards for almost a decade; it’s not like he needed the help. The mismatch tilted our way on both ends with Al, and tilts against us both ways with Corey. If anything, Maggette should be taking more threes if Nellie’s going to insist on him being our four… at least then there’s some slight possibility that we’ll get something out of it. As it stands, it’s a worthless strategy, with all cost, and no upside.
Ladies and gentlemen, your Golden State Worriers.
Starting Vlad at the five was asinine, no two ways about it. The only way that’ll work for even 2-3 minute stretches is if your offensive priority is finding him for threes; ours wasn’t. That decision of Nellie’s was, much like any big Spur who found Vlad covering them, indefensible.
Far from Randolph’s best game, but he’s continuing to play under control, and executed the (stupid) offensive game plan Nellie gave him. He failed to box out a couple times, sure, but are we pretending that that’s not true of every single Warrior? Nobody’s putting any energy into teaching these guys defense… what do you expect? He made some positive defensive plays and continued to pass well… he didn’t turn it over, and as ugly as the jumper was, he had more points than shot attempts. It is a bad joke that he’s not starting for this dogcrap team.
A really good, smart, disciplined performance by Monta, and Maggette was spectacular too… I know his game’s too ugly to ever get plaudits around these parts, but he was a huge asset tonight, and we were fools not to keep going to him in the third quarter.
Something’s really off about Morrow right now, and I’m not feeling Curry lately, either; he looks good out there, but he has been pretty consistently not producing. CJ continues to outplay him, even with a rare poor shooting night tonight.
Monta and Maggette aside, this was not a good performance by the Warriors: poorly played, poorly coached. It’s easy to look at our short bench and the Spurs and say “what do you expect,” but this was a 12-10 team coming into our building having played the night before. For what feels like the 107th game, we could’ve played bigger, and we could’ve played smarter. I’m not a big believer in Keith Smart’s coaching ability, but it sure sucks to have Nellie back.
Ladies and gentlemen, your Golden State Worriers.
meh. i think you’re starting to let your biases cloud your judgment.
Vlad held Duncan to 3-10 in the 1st half and 1 FT attempt courtesy of Curry. Starting him may have been asinine, but it didn’t hurt them one bit defensively.
Nobody’s putting any energy into teaching these guys defense…
i don’t know if you were at the game or heard the telecast, but on the telecast you could hear both Nellie and Smart telling him how to defend things (for instance when he was on the wrong side of ballscreen and Corey ended up coming over and committing a blocking foul on Parker?) and what to look for. Nellie sure got on Morrow a couple times for not staying with his rotations.
if the dubs don’t shoot 3-19 from the Center spot, they probably win despite getting out rebounded by 20 which AR probably wouldn’t have solved (4 rebounds in 25 minutes) even with more minutes.
i don’t know that it was played poorly by anyone except Morrow who did little and got torched by RJ in the 2nd half. CJ was his usual gambling for steals matador defense (Hill & Bogans burned him for 23 on 7-9 shooting) & Curry excessively fouled (he & Monta did a good job on Parker), but for the most part everyone played hard.
the Spurs packed the paint & gave the Warriors the outside shot. unfortunately, guys just missed wide open looks. the type of open looks that the dubs usually give up. you can see why the
by homer simpson on Dec 17, 2009 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
meh. i think you’re starting to let your biases cloud your judgment.
My biases have grown pretty huge, so I’ll admit: this is a possibility.
Vlad held Duncan to 3-10 in the 1st half and 1 FT attempt courtesy of Curry. Starting him may have been asinine, but it didn’t hurt them one bit defensively.
A couple points:
1) Duncan took ten shots… eight of them were from nine feet away or less. So Vlad certainly wasn’t keeping Duncan out of paint. Duncan did miss five of those inside shots, but how many of those did Vlad affect? The number I’m remembering is zero… it’s possible that it’s one. The results didn’t kill us, but Vlad was not defending Duncan well. Duncan just missed a couple shots.
2) The main reason starting Vlad over Randolph is asinine is not defense — it’s rebounding. If four of your starters are Curry, Monta, CJ and Maggette, your fifth damn well better be a guy who’s capable of making a big impact on the glass. Randolph is, Vlad isn’t. And in Duncan’s fourteen first-half minutes, he had nine rebounds, Vlad had one.
i don’t know if you were at the game or heard the telecast, but on the telecast you could hear both Nellie and Smart telling him how to defend things
I heard that too. But which is more indicative of good defensive coaching, coaches who are yelling at their players every time down the court, or coaches whose players show up with some modicum of defensive preparation already? Why does Anthony Morrow, a hardworking, high-IQ player, still make so many basic mistakes on that end? You don’t actually think the defensive coaching on this team is acceptable, do you?
if the dubs don’t shoot 3-19 from the Center spot, they probably win
If your game plan requires Anthony Randolph and an ice-cold Vlad to shoot 10-19 from the field on jumpers, your game plan stinks. It is not reasonable for Nellie or anyone else to assume that those shots just should’ve gone down.
despite getting out rebounded by 20 which AR probably wouldn’t have solved (4 rebounds in 25 minutes) even with more minutes.
4 rebounds in 25 minutes is a helluva lot more than one.
You’re right that everyone generally played hard; maybe I was too hard on the players. But on a coaching level, there’s just nothing to defend here. Classic Nellie mismatch inanity: completely cede the glass to create one offensive opening — Randolph and Vlad shooting eighteen-footers — that isn’t a high-percentage option. I’m tired of people pretending that there’s a good reason for a strategy like that.
Ladies and gentlemen, your Golden State Worriers.
yeah, but 1st half rebounding was 26 to 21. again, asinine or not, it didn’t kill them.
Morrow makes mistakes b/c he’s a 2nd yr player. most all of them make mistakes. rotation mistakes are the most frequent for young players since NBA style rotations are nonexistent until you reach the NBA (i forgot who said this – Derrick Rose?). Pop also lit into George Hill for his mistakes as well.
well if they shot 7-19 (36.7%) it’s a tie game (if 1 3 is hit, they technically outscore the Spurs) – obviously game completely changes & you can’t just add points, but they didn’t have to shoot good, all they had to do was shoot 37% to have a chance at beating a team that they don’t match up well against.
don’t forget the trio of Morrow, CJ & Curry shot 10-27 (37%) on top of that. only CJ forced shots here. the rest of them missed wide open shots. Curry even blew a (reverse) lay up. and the Spurs were 20-23 from the line (87%). their defensive strategy was sound save some Morrow & CJ gaffes and Maggette losing a rebound for a Spurs lay up and the no-call when McDyess took Curry down.
the game plan seemed to be box out Duncan & Blair and let the little guys (CJ, Monta, Morrow, Curry) clean up. off memory, Maggette did great here, Vlad & AR both had lapses.
AR had 5 fouls in 25 & -12, i doubt he gets to 30 min anyway last night vs Blair/Duncan. i just don’t see what else they were going to do against the Spurs. AR, Vlad or Hunter vs Duncan in the post is not the answer and would have resulted in Duncan waiting for Maggette & Monta on their forays to the hoop… and Nellie called a lot of good plays from that offside cut Monta/Maggette post look. but they just don’t match up well against the Spurs. what sets would you have put in?
by homer simpson on Dec 17, 2009 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
Morrow makes mistakes b/c he’s a 2nd yr player. most all of them make mistakes.
I agree. But I’ll repeat my question: is it your belief that Nellie, Smart et al are doing a credible job of teaching defense to these players? I don’t think they are. Many young teams defend vastly better than this one.
well if they shot 7-19 (36.7%) it’s a tie game (if 1 3 is hit, they technically outscore the Spurs) – obviously game completely changes & you can’t just add points, but they didn’t have to shoot good, all they had to do was shoot 37% to have a chance at beating a team that they don’t match up well against.
Something we should both stipulate: as jae wrote in his recap, the Spurs seemed likely to kick the game to an extra gear whenever they wanted. I don’t think better shooting from our centers actually would have won us the game, because the Spurs could have adjusted and worked harder. And to be fair, they could have done that against whatever alternative strategy I’d have preferred, as well. We can probably both agree that the Spurs were going to do what they needed to do to win this game, no matter how we played.
Having said that, 7-19 is not a particularly realistic expectation, either. Away from the right elbow (a hot spot for him that the Spurs had obviously scouted), Randolph is 12-for-52 on outside jumpers this year… it’s not even realistic to expect him to shoot .370 from the outside. Vlad is certainly a more credible shooter than that, but has never actually been a great mid-range shooter (.450 on all twos for his career, including layups and dunks); the guy is also struggling and gassed, as he’s playing the heaviest minutes that he has in six years. From that combo, 7-19 is a stretch.
Nellie called a lot of good plays from that offside cut Monta/Maggette post look.
I agree with that. To be fair, they’ve been playing an effective two-man game for several weeks now, no matter who’s been coaching. But this worked well.
they just don’t match up well against the Spurs.
I agree with that too. But, to reiterate, these Spurs are not quite as fearsome as history would have us believe, especially when playing their third road game in four nights.
what sets would you have put in?
I would have
1) started Curry, Monta, Maggette, Vlad and Randolph
2) made sure every single one of Vlad’s shots came from beyond the arc
3) had Randolph continue to drive to the hoop as he’s been doing, and make Duncan try to counter his length
4) had Hunter smack Duncan around for ten scattered minutes
5) mandated at least eight more total three-point attempts.
Would it have worked? Probably not. As I said, the Spurs were probably gonna turn on the jets and beat us no matter what. But it would’ve made more sense than what we did.
Ladies and gentlemen, your Golden State Worriers.
in regards to your d ?.
i don’t know if they are doing a credible job. i believe individual d is a skill, effort & toughness (chuck hayes actually has a chopping technique that he uses on the baseline that makes the ball spin down & hit a players foot and bounce out of bounds, guys like rondo & AK with their wingspans, or guys like Artest with their bulk)
and that it’s actually team d that is taught. . i don’t watch every game, but i can’t think of too many young players who are good team defenders (things like knowing when & where to chuck, how they are defending certain sets like princeton, ucla, hawk or motion 3-2, where to force based on where the openings are. basically understanding and executing your team’s defensive principles. the real problem with Nellie in regards to defense is that he’ll pick the offensive player over the defensive one every time.
spurs in control
yeah, what we saw was Pop controlling minutes which kept them in the game. b/c of the b2b & 3 in 4, figured that would happen & would be there chance.
I agree with that. To be fair, they’ve been playing an effective two-man game for several weeks now, no matter who’s been coaching. But this worked well.? they through a lot of new wrinkles off that initial set that they started running from the Houston game. they also ran a couple new sets for Morrow, but he isn’t quick or crafty enough to create space using screens the way Rip, Ray & Reggie do.
what you would have done
that’s not really a game plan. i’d start AR too, but in this game, starting AR probably fouls him out & takes away the Maggette mismatch that actually worked for once.
you can’t really hamstring a player. but 2 of Vlad’s shots were rejected lay ups. so he took 4 3’s, a jump shot as the clock was going down & an 8 footer. i can’t remember him forcing anything and his shot selection wasn’t bad. he struggled & became gun shy.
AR struggled to drive around Duncan b/c Timmy didn’t fall for his ball fakes the way the rookie, Blair, did. everyone knows AR’s jumper is not good especially from the baselines where he seems to airball it every time.
would have liked to seen more Hunter, but it doesn’t bother me to see him not play the way it bothers me to see AR not play.
telling a team to shoot more 3’s means they just force up more contested ones. what they really need to get more 3’s is AB back & run ballscreen with him & Curry. just like David Lee for the NYKS, AB is adept at rolling which would force rotations and collapse the paint – thus, allow Curry to find open 3 point shooters. right now our bigs pick & pop (and at horrible angles) and the opposing team doesn’t even bother rotating. they stay at home and double up Curry and he has nowhere to go with the ball b/c there is no roller and b/c the pop angle is poor, he has to dribble back out allowing the d to recover. AR should roll like BW & AB, but he’s also the worst when popping b/c he goes to spots where he’s comfortable instead of creating an angle for Steph to get him the ball.
this wasn’t like the Houston game where Nellie clearly lost his marbles by sticking with Maggette v Landry for far too long. the match ups actually worked, but the W’s just shot 42.5%, 10% & 72.7% even though they had a ton of wide open shots b/c the Spurs were too tired to bother to do things like close out on shooters.
by homer simpson on Dec 17, 2009 7:07 PM PST up reply actions
i don’t know if they are doing a credible job. i believe individual d is a skill, effort & toughness (chuck hayes actually has a chopping technique that he uses on the baseline that makes the ball spin down & hit a players foot and bounce out of bounds, guys like rondo & AK with their wingspans, or guys like Artest with their bulk)
the real problem with Nellie in regards to defense is that he’ll pick the offensive player over the defensive one every time
I agree with all of this, especially the latter part. However:
1) There are certain objective measurements of defensive preparation. For one: fouls. We foul more often than all but two teams in basketball. Steph Curry fouls more than any other point guard. Monta Ellis fouls more than any other shooting guard. Maggette’s fourth among small forwards, Morrow’s seventh, Randolph and Hunter and Mikki foul a lot… except for CJ, all these guys foul a ton. Even if you have a bunch of players who lack the fire/talent/whatever to play good D, you can at least teach them to stop sending your opponents to the line so much. That’s not happening.
2) There’s an overall structural defensive issue that goes beyond whether we start offensive players or defensive players.
The rebound is a vital form of NBA currency. It is not the only type — you can achieve some moderate success while rebounding poorly, as we did two years ago. But you simply can’t construct a viable strategy that ignores the rebound altogether.
For the sake of argument: let’s say Monta, CJ, Curry, Morrow and Maggette are our five most skilled defensive players. Does that make that quintet our best defensive lineup? No, it doesn’t, because they’re going to get murdered on the glass. In fact, even if they were our five most skilled offensive players as well, it’d still be a terrible lineup. You have to be able to grab a lot of balls off the carom at both ends, otherwise you’re just going to lose.
Our defense is horrible not only because Nellie prefers offensively talented players to defensively talented players. Our defense is also horrible because Nellie has decided to opt out of the battle on the glass. And you simply can’t do that and expect to win. Sometimes you just have to field some bigger players, even if it’s boring.
? they through a lot of new wrinkles off that initial set that they started running from the Houston game.
I’m not saying they didn’t throw a few new wrinkles out there, I’m just saying it didn’t make a huge difference in the production of either guy. Maggette had a great game, but that’s not a rarity for him of late. Monta played much more intelligently than usual, but that had more to do with laying off the driving into triple-teams and tired Spurs defenders than his two-man game with Maggette.
they also ran a couple new sets for Morrow, but he isn’t quick or crafty enough to create space using screens the way Rip, Ray & Reggie do.
His release is so quick that he can often counteract his lack of quickness and craftiness… he was scoring pretty decently off screens before his hiatus. He just seems spooked right now. But the general point is correct: he’s not a hugely athletic guy, and unless he figures out a trick or two, he’s never going to get himself open often enough to be a big-volume scorer. Right now, he rates as just a role-player, albeit a useful one.
that’s not really a game plan.
Not a whole game plan, no. But at the same time, really specific X’s-and-O’s tinkering will not save you if you play lineups as stupidly small as ours last night. While you can go for short stretches hoping your smalls will grab rebounds because your opponents are sealed off, opponents will eventually solve that and beat you. The changes I detailed above would not be sufficient on their own to get you through an NBA game, but they would’ve helped.
i’d start AR too, but in this game, starting AR probably fouls him out & takes away the Maggette mismatch that actually worked for once.
I’ll agree that that particular mismatch was effective for us last night. As for Randolph, very possible he would’ve fouled out. But 1) at least you get your full money’s worth out of the guy that way, and 2) he’s quietly pretty savvy about pacing out his six fouls. He’s only fouled out once since joining the NBA, despite some big-minute games. As a matter of fact, Randolph had a 45-minute performance against these same Spurs last night and only committed two fouls. They were on auto-pilot and eyeing the playoffs the next week… he wasn’t going to have such an easy time last night. But he has shown an ability to stay on the court if it’s clear that we need him to.
you can’t really hamstring a player. but 2 of Vlad’s shots were rejected lay ups. so he took 4 3’s, a jump shot as the clock was going down & an 8 footer. i can’t remember him forcing anything and his shot selection wasn’t bad. he struggled & became gun shy.
I agree with all of this… I wasn’t sufficiently clear. My point is this: unless you’re explicitly using him to space the floor by shooting threes, he’s not useful. He’s just not. His last two coaches were Larry Brown and Phil Jackson, and they both realized this — you can use him to space the floor occasionally, but he’ll kill you otherwise. I don’t begrudge Vlad for taking some shots inside the line… I begrudge the game plan that asks him to do too many things.
AR struggled to drive around Duncan b/c Timmy didn’t fall for his ball fakes the way the rookie, Blair, did. everyone knows AR’s jumper is not good especially from the baselines where he seems to airball it every time.
All true, but if Duncan doesn’t bite, I’m fine with Randolph not shooting at all. Let him set picks and clean garbage off the glass, Biedrins-style, and wait for the occasional opportunity to slash. I think he needs a bigger role, but it doesn’t have to be as a scorer… that’s the weakest part of his game right now.
would have liked to seen more Hunter, but it doesn’t bother me to see him not play the way it bothers me to see AR not play.
Agreed on all counts.
telling a team to shoot more 3’s means they just force up more contested ones.
This, I simply disagree with. Andris certainly would’ve helped, but as you state a paragraph lower down, the Spurs were tired and not closing out well… we got tons of open jump shots. We just weren’t disciplined about taking them from beyond the arc. At the risk of nerding out excessively on this poit, the average Spurs opponent takes 17% of their field goal attempts from beyond the arc; we only took 11%. There’s no excuse for that when your team is this tiny and good at shooting threes.
right now our bigs pick & pop (and at horrible angles)
Indeed… it’s stupid. But that’s Nellie game plan. They were doing what he asked for — what he asked for made no sense.
this wasn’t like the Houston game where Nellie clearly lost his marbles by sticking with Maggette v Landry for far too long.
I agree. This was, by no means, Nellie’s worst coaching performance of the season. But it was still poor coaching, and poor coaching that can only have heightened behind-the-scenes tensions with Randolph and his reps. That’s a pretty bad combination, and I’m just tired of hearing the lazy, blanket excuses from his supporters. (Not including you in that; your observations are extremely well thought-out, and I agree with most of them.)
Ladies and gentlemen, your Golden State Worriers.
Radmanovich
Needs to go back to wherever he came from and never step foot in the NBA again. Worst player in the NBA!
yeah
Why is it that I saw him in one game messing around with his mouthpiece then suddenly someone passes him for a layup. Then today he fumbles the ball like its his first time in a football game. He was no where productive at all. I was there. I do agree with you. And another reason why I booed is because hes a vet he should know better when hes having a bad game. PASS the BALL! Make some damn plays dont try to shoot the damn thing again and again!
by goaldenstateboy on Dec 17, 2009 2:56 AM PST up reply actions
I was at the game
Vlad looked kind of out ot it. He was getting passes that he wasn’t ready for, and looked like he was flailing inside. I wrote that off to a bad day, and playing Duncan to boot. But when Hunter came into the game in the 4th for AR, it SHOULD have been for Rad. AR defended Duncan much more agreesively, altho Duncan still had his way.
See y'all on the Jumbotron
not even close
Mikki is 100x worse than Vlad.
"Hold it. The Schwarzenegger Library?" - John Spartan after hearing Arnold became President, from Demolition Man
by 61st Amendment on Dec 17, 2009 6:32 AM PST up reply actions
His D and hands are 1000 times better than Moore. Moore’s shot % is really only marginally better. The last road trip he was shooting the lights out relatively.
by Badly Browned on Dec 17, 2009 7:27 AM PST up reply actions
I think the more accurate statement is that Vlad is the worst shooter getting significant minutes in the NBA right now.
by Badly Browned on Dec 17, 2009 7:29 AM PST up reply actions
You guys
can be so friggin’ wishy washy its disgusting. What do shooters do when they aren’t hitting shots? Take more shots until they fall. If they don’t fall, then oh well. Its not like anyone other than Monta and Maggette have been consistant, and there’s not really anyone to put in right now. I actually agree with Maggette in his post game interview about fans booing their own team. Vlad’s contract is reasonable for his talent level, and its not his fault Nelly put him at the 5 when he’s better as a 3. These guys are short on motivation, and these “fans” who support players until they have a few bad games and start booing don’t help.
Anthony Randoph for Most Improved Player
You know something is wrong when CJ Watson has the most rebounds in a game. Very surprising considering Vlad has actually been decent at getting boards for us. Anyways, not sure if I am numbed from all the losses now, but this one didn’t hurt as much.
I can't help but think we're tanking
And I’ve been thinking that for a month.
"I never watched baseball on TV. It's slow and boring. I'm not a fan. Never was." - Jeff Kent
hopefully.
this season has been a lost cause from day one.
Oh, the humanity
"I never watched baseball on TV. It's slow and boring. I'm not a fan. Never was." - Jeff Kent
We're not tanking, we just suck
Starting Vlad was not a bad idea in my book. There isnt anyone on the team who can defend him 1on1. If he is hitting shots he pulls Duncan a few more feet away from the hoop for Monta and Magette.
Steph doesnt look bad out there, he is just having a harder time scoring as a rookie than we would like. This team needs him to score like a veteran and he jsut cant be expected to do that coming from a DIV 2 school. He did play acceptable defense if you ask me.
Morrow was completely invisible. I continue to wonder why he doesnt work for shots in the 12-15 foot range. He can get them all day if he makes the effort. This is very reminiscent of J-Rich’s early Warrior days.
Randolph really needed to play more college ball. He had no skills on D against Duncan. You could see the confusion because he just didnt know how to defend a player with more than one move. Duncan is a HOF player, but Randolph needs to know how to mix up his strategies and fight for early position consistently.
What are we going to do? We dont have the talent to compete right now. Any complaining is really misplaced. We have to grin and bear it for now.
by warriorsvictim on Dec 17, 2009 10:06 AM PST reply actions
There isnt anyone on the team who can defend him 1on1.
Meaning DUncan, not Vlad…..bad grammar
by warriorsvictim on Dec 17, 2009 10:07 AM PST reply actions
I was thinking the same thing about Morrow.
I’m not sure if the death of his family member is bothering him. or if the trade rumors of AR is bothering him.
I wonder if he knows something that everyone doesn’t. Maybe he knows that AR is going to be traded and is seriously thinking about the future of the Warriors. He knows chemistry on a team is a key part to success and maybe the Warriors having no direction is finally starting to get to him. You could only remain ridiculously optimistic, be temporarily loyal to a team and its fans for so long but have to face reality that if I were an NBA player, I would not want to play for an organization like the Warriors and its moronic front office.
I really hope this isn’t the case and hope it’s just a slump that he will quickly overcome. I hope the anthonies stay as warriors. i hope cohan sells and I hope this organization changes soon.
Dang. All we do is “hope” and no progressive action really takes place.
It sure would have been nice to witness A-mo scoring 27 points with 4-4 3PT shooting to go along side his 6 rebounds.
Go.
Warriors.
Still.
Romes Mac Mojous
by ROMESdavidWOOD37 on Dec 17, 2009 10:38 AM PST reply actions
"It's tough to really call this a team right now. It's more of an entourage where all the members just happen to be Turtle."
Wonderful line. They should quote that in the Chronicle.
This team sucks
I really wanted to put it differently. But I can’t. The ownership sucks, the front office sucks, the coaching sucks, the players suck, the ‘all-offense, no-defense’ game plan sucks, the injuries suck, and the fact that I didn’t even bother watching the 2nd half last night because I knew how it was gonna go sucks.
I just realized that Baron (Clippers), Jax (’Cats), J-Rich (Suns), Pietrus (Magic), Harrington (Knicks), and Crawford (Hawks) are all playing pretty well, and this team has very little to show for all of those transactions (Brandan Wright, Speedy Claxton, Vlad, and Raja Bell….anything else?). That team would crush this current Warriors team. I just realized that we can make up all the excuses for why these players are no longer on the team, but at the end of the day, our talent level sucks too.
The return of Biedrins and Turiaf is not going to the be the great solution we are looking for. Both players will still foul like crazy, Andris still cannot shoot free throws, both players need play-making guards to be successful, etc, etc.
This team keeps digging its own grave. Any talk of trading Randolph at this point is laughable. The Warriors will not be getting a superstar in the near future (even though 6 are available this off-season). I hate what this team has become.
I used to wonder how a team could miss the postseason 16 out of 17 seasons. Now…I understand.
Is Nellie possibly trying to turn AR into the next Al Harrington or maybe Troy Murphy?
If Bochy coached the Warriors Bengie Molina would start every game at PG.
by cybermaldonado on Dec 17, 2009 12:05 PM PST reply actions
You can almost tell by the way Bob and Jim talk about AR he might not be around for awhile
Even when he does well they have negative things to say, when he makes a mistake you can hear the excitement in Fitz’s voice. I’ve read this in a few other places, it’s the same things they did with all the other guys we’ve shipped out
gswscribe
Nellie said Warriors are scouring the D-League for another player, their second-hardship exception
Radmanovic on the boos: “It’s harsh, but I understand. … If I could boo, I would boo, too.”
Booing is disgracful.
Yeah, we obviously don’t cheer when we lose, but I think it’s pathetic to the fans booing Vlad. What Maggette said in the CNS summed it up.
Formally known as PFortyy.
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Watch my Warriors vids and subscribe!
Has no one yet noticed the most unlikely and surprising thing about the recap itself? (10,000 lifetime bonus points for the first one to figure it out.)
you mean that you didn't officially pick a warrior wonder?
by IQofaWarrior on Dec 17, 2009 5:48 PM PST up reply actions
I was thinking more along the lines of..
wow…40% of people stayed to the end….really?
and…
Shock horror….Heterosexual couple flaunting the decency laws by walking hand in hand…
lol
"Better a Has-been than a Never-was. But better a Never-was than a Never-tried-to-be"
by BritWarriorGSW on Dec 17, 2009 5:52 PM PST up reply actions
that the recap was posted hours after the game?
which means you didn’t drink yourself silly after the loss?
by IQofaWarrior on Dec 17, 2009 6:01 PM PST up reply actions
Has no one yet noticed the most unlikely and surprising thing about the recap itself?
I for one am still curious about the answer to this, but I’m too lazy to figure it out. Do tell? I’m happy to forgo the lifetime bonus points…
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Dec 18, 2009 9:53 AM PST up reply actions
Haha
So in fact the most unlikely and surprising thing about the recap was that you wrote it… ;-)
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Dec 18, 2009 5:41 PM PST up reply actions
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