Which 2008 contract was dumber? Elton Brand vs. Corey Maggette
by Free Zarko on Dec 20, 2009 9:33 PM PST
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PrintWith the Warriors now shopping Maggette via ESPN.com leaks, the FO has made a tacit admission that his contract is 'bad'.' I actually like Maggette's efficiency and think he gets too much grief for an ugly/selfish game. The signing seemed ill-advised at the time, but that's not Corey's fault. MEgette never promised to be Steve Nash. Dude's a foul-machine-of-a-scorer, and he's been contributing recently. If the Warriors deal young talent with CM just to shed his recently signed contract, it would be a bizarre case of GM schizophrenia (Let's sign this guy! Please take him off our hands, we'll give you stuff!). A contract retrospective is in order. Since all things in sports must be compared, I'm 'analyzing' two dumb 2008 deals. Was Philly dumber for luring Elton Brand from us, or were we dumber for holding our noses and nabbing Maggette?
Battle of Dumb!
Brand:
2006 PER: 23.17
2007 PER: 17.72 (8 games)
2008 PER: 14.65
2009 PER: 17.28
Dr. Evil negotiated contract for five years, and nearly 80 million dollars
Woefully underperforming
Team stocked at position (Young, Speights)
Logjam problem compounded by lack of burn for developing players
Brand is an arterial clog
Maggette:
2006 PER: 18.67
2007 PER: 19.41
2008 PER: 16.91
2009 PER: 18.69
Consolation for a consolation prize signs for five years, roughly 50 million dollars.
Performing well
Team stacked with similar players
Logjam problem compounded by lack of burn for developing players
Maggette is kidneystones
With emerging talents Speights and Young outplaying EB at the 4, Brand's bigger contract is currently a bigger disaster. But the Maggette contract could outstupid it.
Why? Because in the case of Corey, nothing unexpected happened. Maggette is playing at the exact decent level that you would expect him to. Brand was an injury gamble that didn't pan out. The Sixers are partially victims of bad luck, partially of a bad choice. While the Warriors are victims of....what, exactly? Bad planning? Insanity? Mullin? Rowell?
The 48 second mark of this is the perfect metaphor for Warriors FO strategy. We've been doing the 'Anchorman' 'burrito out the window' routine for years, even with players who surpass expectations. I challenge any team to up us in the fickle department!
Only the Warriors could be ingeniously dumb enough to...
a) Sign OK yet roster redundant swingman for a ridiculous 50 million dollar contract
b) Move the guy to sixth man role
c) Continue to play dude as sixth man, even when roster shrinks small enough to comfortably fit in my car
d) My car isn’t large
e) Play 6-6 guy at powerforward, but play him behind Vladimir Radmonivic
f) That’s right, Vlad Rad
g) Get desperate to unload player’s contract
h) Leak info to ESPN that you want to unload player’s contract and that you’ll include 20 year old PF who compares favorably to Josh Smith.
I’m stopping at h). The funniest part is, there were related stupid decisions the Warriors were saved from doing. Before signing Maggette, they offered Arenas 100 million dollars. After the knee injuries. After they lost out on Agent Zero in his prime. The Warriors also presented Brand a boatload of cash, only to be rejected. The Dubs actually gave Brand a bigger deal, but he decided the Sixers were a 'better fit.' If Brand was avoiding Cohan&Friends for the logical reasons, this was an ironic a case of past Warriors stupidity saving the Warriors. We should be so lucky in the future...
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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I would rather have Magette than Brand right now ...
in part because Elton is looks like he’s clearly a declining player.
Maggette may be overpaid, and he may be limited, but he’s actually a valuable player.
We might have actually forced them to w/ our offer to Gilbert :D
Gilbert 2004-2007 was a player who was max contract worthy. True Shooting percentage over 57% for 3 year average…PERs of 21.3, 23.8 and 24.0 in consecutive years. and all the intangibles like playing clutch and hitting big shots.
Problem is how can you give a guy that after a season in which he played 13 games?!
I miss that gilbert, and i’m still bitter we couldn’t keep him. i’m pretty sure warriors could have made playoffs w/ gilbert, jrich back court. Or at the minimum, it would have been less painful to watch
Dumber is the wrong word here
Elton Brand was a gamble, Magette was just overpaid.
Elton has not panned out, Magette has pretty much given us what we expected which has been less effective on an injury riddled team.
I think the dumb part of the equation was Brand himself. He should have been honest about the fact he was looking to get out of Clipperland. Maybe we would still have Baron at a decent price and a whole different season ahead of us.
by warriorsvictim on Dec 21, 2009 10:46 AM PST reply actions
not saying Baron is the saviour
things would just be different
by warriorsvictim on Dec 21, 2009 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
Word!
Baron would have control of this team. It doesn’t seem like anyone does this season.
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
brand's is far worse, he has hardly played.
at least maggette has been on the floor some.
by HOLDEMUPGoldenStateOfOppression on Dec 21, 2009 12:46 PM PST reply actions
This isn’t even close. Maggette was a panicky signing that was made with the sole intention of keeping the fans interested and buying tickets, but given the contracts and production, he is infinitely better than Brand or Arenas. As you say, this is pure luck on our part because we were ready to sign the other two for even more money. I am really not sure why we are “shopping” Maggs at this point though. What are we hoping to get back in return? There is no way that we come out ahead in terms of talent. It’s time for the Warriors to quiet down all the trade rumors.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
** additionally
The biggest problem with this contract is length. 1/10, 2/20, 3/30 wouldn’t have been that bad right? It’s that 4th and 5th year that are daunting. Will he hold up? Will he still be productive. The contract continue to bear that risk. So it’s not neccesarily a question that can completely be answered— Maggette has produce at around the rate of a $10M player, just hasn’t been on the court enough to earn all $10M.
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
That’s a pretty good analysis. The biggest reason to trade him would be to get out of the back end of the contract. In the short term, it won’t help us and I it is unlikely that we’d really get any “cap flexibility” that could be applied to getting another player by jettisoning him for an expiring this year. Thinking we have to get rid of him to get better is likely to bring about disappointment when we get rid of him and the next season, we’re not better.
But as a cumulative measure from the “it’s always better to have fewer ‘bad’ contracts” standpoint, it’s entirely possible that “dumping” now might prove better in 3 years. We don’t know. It would have been better to deal with that ahead of time. Cleaning up a mess is more difficult than avoiding it in the first place.
As far as his contract now, I thought that the Jax/Crawford/Maggs trio of ~10mil/yr contracts for some flawed players was ridiculous. You can’t win with 30mil invested in that group. But 10mil a year for one of them? Using that as an excuse for what’s holding the team back is a stretch. I just have a hard time getting worked up over it.
Great stuff from jae, as always
I agree with that take. I’m getting pre worked up based on KNBR Steinmetz reporting of how desperate they are to shed CM. I don’t understand why a team would sign a guy, then be desperate to get rid of him in the wake of nothing surprising. Perhaps the economic downturn is to blame?
ES
Yep, that’s about right. If we can rid ourselves of the last couple years of our commitment to him without having to pay young talent to do it, it’s a worthwhile move; all else being equal, it’s probably better for a bad team to have future flexibility. But we’d sink much deeper into the crapper if he went away right now.
Ladies and gentlemen, your Golden State Worriers.
Eh, Maggette might be overpaid but not by much
Maggette is a very efficient scoring spark of the bench. To me, he’s a great 6th man on a good team, and honestly 5/50 is not that bad a contract for a great 6th man (Like Terry on Mavs, Jamison on Mavs, Ginobli, etc). He’s not quite up to those guys levels, but getting to the line as much as he does is really a great thing to do. If he were signed at 5/40 I don’t anyone would be saying his contract is an albatross— So they overpaid a guy by 25% it’s not the end of the world. And if they were actually competitive, the contract would be well worth it.
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
The biggest problem is the 5
Maggette is going to hit a freaking wall long before that contract ends.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 21, 2009 7:05 PM PST up reply actions
players who get to the line and hit free throws
tend to do so, there entire career. SO i don’t expect him to become less efficient player. But by year 4 or 5 his minutes might have to scale back.
Right now he is 30. Next year (year 3) he is 31. It’s possible we won’t see a massive decline till year 5. His injury history would dictate otherwise though. However once we get to second half of his 4th year he becomes valuable as an expiring piece. The NBA will probably not be in as bad of financial shape as they are today, but teams going nowhere wanting to re-build will always be willing to deal a longer contract for a shorter to ‘start over’.
The other option is after summer of 2010, whoever had team with lebron or dwayne wade, challenging for titles, not caring much about luxury tax would be willing to take him on an overpaid contract if he can help them win. It’s just no one will now, because cap space for summer is #1 premium
Magette's contract is really not that bad
He does have talent and $10M per is not excessive compared to others who are getting $20M per and are producing less. We as a fanbase just like to whine and poor Corey is our whipping boy. Next year his contract will be easy to move.
by Eschew Obfuscation on Dec 21, 2009 5:00 PM PST reply actions
It's not a great contract
In terms of ‘dumb,’ the decision makes less sense in retrospect than Brand’s contract. If Maggette is doing Maggette things, and we’re so desperate to move him that we’d chuck young talent overboard just to do it, then what was the point in the first place?
ES
we’re so desperate to move him that we’d chuck young talent overboard just to do it
At this point those are just rumors. While I wouldn’t put it past our front office, at this point there is no real reason to think they are desperately trying to dump him to the point that we are including young talent with nothing besides salary relief coming back. That is purely speculation, so it doesn’t really stand to help your argument.
Neither of these were particularly “smart” signings, but at the time I would have preferred Brand. Now… not so much.
"I could be chasing an untamed ornithoid without cause."
Ya, perhaps I should give Riley more credit rather than assuming the worst
They are just rumors. What’s odd is how many NBA writers think it’d be hard to get rid of CM’s deal, even with young talent added. CM+AR for Z’s expiring or CM+AR for David West (I’m doing this off the top of my head, these are just the theoretical principles of these deals) sound like great deals for the other teams.
ES
NBA Writers
The only thing they have to go on is speculation. Especially with a team like the Warriors, whose most vocal executive is a pathological liar.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Gilbert Arenas
was the dumber contract. Didn’t the Warriors offer him to a 5 year 100 million dollar contract? He barely played last season and two seasons ago. Thank god he didn’t take it, this year he’s just another Monta Ellis.
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