RUMOR: Warriors "trying to unload" Corey Maggette, Anthony Randolph available for "the right veteran", Warriors only inclined to keep Anthony Morrow, Stephen Curry, and Monta Ellis
by Atma Brother ONE on Dec 26, 2009 9:32 AM PST
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From Marc Spears over at the Y!:
Golden State Warriors general manager Larry Riley said he is weary of all the trade rumors hanging over his team and claims he is not shopping any player - despite rumblings throughout the NBA indicating otherwise.
I'm calling bluff. Riley's a sharp man, at least sharper than the Warriors last few GMs. He knows this roster needs to be blown up. I wouldn't be surprised if he was paying serious overage fees on his cell phone plan the past month making and receiving trade calls.
One NBA executive said the Warriors are "trying to unload" forward Corey Maggette (no surprise, given his mammoth contract) and would trade young forward Anthony Randolph for "the right veteran."
Both of these SHOULD be happening right now.
I like Maggette's game more than most and appreciate his uber-efficient scoring off the bench, but throughout his career he's been 1) injury prone (his annual injury bug is coming) and 2) missed the playoffs all but once in his career (doesn't exactly play "winning" basketball). There's plenty of good arguments that Chris Mullin and Robert Rowell really overpaid him post-Baron Davis departure.
Also let's face it- fans do not come out to watch or like watching Maggette play. Sadly many members of the best fans in the entire association have even resorting to booing him. I'm not a fan of the booing, but about a quarter of Dubs fans think it's okay to boo him just because they don't like watching him play- see Polling GSoM: Do Warriors fans need to stop booing Corey Maggette?
"There is a lot of conversation right now," Riley said. "I'm looking around as a GM of a team with seven wins. But there is no shopping of any player. I've followed up on things, but we're not shopping around.
"I did not shop Randolph this year or last year. We have guys that we are not willing to trade."
But the Warriors should be shopping! Washington Warriors shopping perhaps. I'd take a shot at Gilbert Arenas, Antawn Jamison, and Caron Butler. It would be an expensive shot, but it's not the like Warriors have much to lose at this point.
NEWSFLASH: Any 2010 salary cap space this team has is either not going to be used or "utilized" to overpay another regrettable signing a la Maggette.
Still, league sources say the only three players the Warriors seem inclined to keep are young guards Anthony Morrow, Stephen Curry and Monta Ellis.
Selling on Morrow and Curry right now wouldn't be the best idea. You have to expect these two to keep improving. On the other hand, selling on Ellis right now might be a wise move. It would be selling high while he's putting up 25ppg, 4.3 rpg, 5.0 apg, and 2.3 stls, which look fabulous on paper. Never mind that his scoring hasn't been all that efficient and he's turning the ball over at a ghastly rate (4.3 a game! Egad! Good lord!). Some sucker GM is going to see those totals and not adjust for efficiency. Now might be the time to sell high on Ellis. I'm not saying do a salary dump by any stretch of the imagination, but Ellis is clearly the Warriors most valuable tradable piece right now.
Marc also has an update on the Warriors super mediocre center tandem that the homers seem to think will make a world of difference on the team's win-loss record:
For now, the Warriors hope big men Andris Biedrins and Ronny Turiaf are able to finally return from their injuries and play Saturday against the Phoenix Suns.
Let's hope these guys don't have too many early struggles when they come back. Both of them are great trade pieces. Biedrins can help a playoff team with his elite rebounding. Turiaf can give a playoff squad some good minutes o' swats and hustle off the bench. Neither have won anything at all with the Warriors and that's not going to cease.
If either player returns, the Warriors likely won't seek a second injury exception to expand their roster.
Man, but BOOM GOT THEM DOS! This isn't what I wanted to hear.
Now I tend not to place all that much blame on GM Larry Riley and head coach Don Nelson for this team's current horrific roster. They haven't had full control of this roster since mid-June, so it's really been less than 6 months. They inherited a major clean up job thanks to the silly moves made by Chris Mullin and Robert Rowell. Riley and Nellie aren't going to make the bonehead moves that these two unqualified and not so bright "executives" made when they were calling the hoops shots.
But the time is ticking and Riley and Nellie are on the clock. If the Warriors start next season with the same roster they have now and sell the fans on the company line that this flawed roster will be fine when healthy, then it's time to hit the PANIC button. They didn't earn their paychecks.
Riley and Nellie are better than that... I think.
99% of rumors never happen, but 99% of them are fun to talk about!
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Trade Corey
but keep the young fella Randolph. He has his moments were it looks like he is lost but the guy is only 20! i said 20! there is obvious talent there and he does usually play hard. With the skills he has for a guy who is closing in on 7 feet i think a combination of AB at center and Randolph at power forward would be pretty beast down the road. Keep Randolph and trade nelson/riley /rowell.(no capitals for their names)
It always gets worse before it gets better
While we’ll miss Maggs’ scoring for now, in the long run it will be better for us. We’ll have more cap space and therefore the potential to sign a better player. Hopefully a 4 to work alongside Monta.
Randolph for Jamison, Butler, or Arenas?
Jamison is the epitome of the kind of player the Warriors should not be shopping Randolph for. He is almost certainly better than Randolph right now … but in his mid-30s and should be entering the downslope of his career. He won’t be better than Randolph two years from now.
Arenas? And overpaid guy who plays the same position as our best player? Huh? Caron Butler? Is what was he is an upgrade over Morrow?
If you want to make the case that the Warriors should be shopping Randolph, fine. But trading him for Jamison would be moronic.
Jamison and aging
I was talking to a hoops “veteran” the other night. A 70 year Wizards fan and he was saying how Jamison is going to age extremely well. He made some interesting points about how his game wasn’t so much about athleticism (very little to do with hops), but creativity, crazy shots, and knowing his spots for both boards and scoring. I’m pretty convinced he’s going to be playing at a high level for a few more years.
Who knows if Randolph will be Stromile Swift 2 years from now? He simply not a good NBA player right now.
I’m not saying I would let AR go for Jamison easily, but it’s not a crazy idea.
By the way- anyone think Jamison would’ve been a great addition after that WE BELIEVE playoff run? With his uptake in rebounding he would’ve been an excellent 4 for that team.
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by Atma Brother ONE on Dec 26, 2009 10:00 AM PST up reply actions
Adding jamison is not crazy
but he is 33, older than I thought. Can’t sell AR’s potential for 3 years of good jamison, at least not yet, but I see the logic cause Randolph is real boom/bust at this point. And I agree jamison’s game should translate well as he gets older, if he were 31 I would be for it. Why did we trade jamison again? I hope it wasn’t to make space for Troy Murphy, my memory fails me.
by Duh Duh Man on Dec 26, 2009 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
Why did we trade jamison again?
To open up playing time for Gary St. Jean/ Chris Mullin fav:
On the plus side it did indirectly lead to Baron Davis. (Nick Van Exel > Dale Davis’ expiring contract)
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by Atma Brother ONE on Dec 26, 2009 10:34 AM PST up reply actions
Back when Jamison was a Warrior ...
I had the exact opposite feeling. His rebounding depended a lot on his ability to jump quicker than the bigger players he was often up against, which meant that he was likely to age poorly. He relied on his quick hops to get a lot of easy putback points.
I haven’t watched him much the last couple of years, so I can’t really say how his game has changed. His TS% is higher now than it was when he was younger, which suggests that if his hops are declining, he’s compensating with better understanding and positioning. You don’t have to be the tallest or the quickest to be a good rebounder (see Barkley, Charles) if you understand the game well, and Jamison always struck me as a player who would apply himself and improve his knowledge of the game as he got older. He’s a smart guy and a hard worker, and I like him as a player.
I also absolutely agree with you that he would have been an almost perfect big man for the “We Believe” team. ALthough not great defensively, his mobility, rebounding skills, and ability to score without demanding a lot of shots are EXACTLY what that team needed. He would have fit right in with Nellie-ball played at a high level.
We are not making the playoffs this year, however. That means you’re acquiring Jamison for next year, and the year after that. Maybe he ages well … but even if he’s aging well, he’s a declining player.
This team should NOT be trading young talent for players who are past their primes. It’s just a bad strategy. That’s the sort of move you make when a championship push is possible – it’s not the sort of move you make when you’re – at best – 2-3 years away from even thinking about the second round of the playoffs. s
Jamison
under contract till 2012 (when he’s 36) and he’s making 13 mil next year, 15 after…
I’d pass…. He’s not going to get us near the playoffs let alone deep in it. We need to build a STRONG core first, a core that in 2 years will be improving not retiring
gone like thunder...haha
this sounds about right, everyone has to be on the table for the right price. My problems is I don’t trust this management to get the job done. Riley might be able to pull something out, but I am not confident in his abilities as of yet, or that he even has the power to make moves on his own.
Trade maggette of course, not because he sucks, but because if we’re gonna go 20-62, i would rather not see maggette’s game while we do it, efficient yes, fun to watch no.
Haha
Trade maggette of course, not because he sucks, but because if we’re gonna go 20-62, i would rather not see maggette’s game while we do it, efficient yes, fun to watch no.
This.
"I could be chasing an untamed ornithoid without cause."
by olympicmike on Dec 26, 2009 10:03 AM PST up reply actions
Arenas?
What a joke. So let me get this straight, you think trading Monta could be a good idea largely because he hasn’t been efficient, but we should go after Arenas? Monta is shooting over 46% for the season. Arenas is just over 41% for the season (42% career), and he’s averaging 3.7 TOs himself. They both signed 6 year deals at the same time, Monta for $66 million and Arenas for $111 million. Monta is 24, Gil is about to turn 28 after missing the better part of the past two seaons. Ridiculous suggestion. The Warriors and Rowell were incredibly lucky that Arenas turned down the $100 million offer they gave him. Everyone knows that.
by sjsnider on Dec 26, 2009 11:39 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
+1
My icon is a testament to the Dubs ability to play defense.
by JR Repertoire on Dec 26, 2009 4:50 PM PST up reply actions
puh-lenty of blame to heap
While Riley may be new to the position, he’s not new to the franchise and Nelson has had his finger in every roster move since arriving. We agree that Rowell and Mullin made plenty of miscues and some bad luck, and we’ve hashed out who’s blood was on who’s hands many times over the past 18 months. Mullin’s drafting improved over time, he at least facilitated if not orchestrated the Indy trade, and by reliable sources had Baron agreed to a fairly reasonable extension before Rowell vetoed it. Regardless of how anyone might feel about that move, most would agree that the Jax extension was foolish as well.
And while I’ve been a big Nelson supporter in the past , over the past 12-14 months he has done far more damage than good to this roster – which has already been blown up, only a couple guys remain from the We Believe season. His handling of the Harrington situation and forcing us into the Crawford trade is but one example.
Suggesting that Nelson & Riley only had an influence on the roster for six months is preposterous or disingenous, or both. The “major clean up job” was created by their moves for Crawford, among others in the past couple years. Nelson’s hands are far from clean. The only clock ticking is whether he’ll get his wins record this season so he can move on and we can hopefully start a fresh.
As JRich said, we’re back to the same ol’ Warriors.
Good thoughts man, but I’m not buying this part:
Mullin’s drafting improved over time
Let’s look at his draft picks:
- 2004- Andris Biedrins (#11)- Good pick but passed on Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, Kevin Martin, Anderson Varejao
- 2005- Ike Diogu (#9)- BUST, Monta Ellis (#40), Chris Taft (#42)- BUST: Monta was an absolutely money pick though
- 2006- Patrick O’Bryant (#9)- BUST, Kosta Perovic (#38)- BUST
- 2007- Brandan Wright (#8)- So far a BUST, Marco Belinelli (#18)- BUST (although with such a late pick you can’t expect much), Stephane Lasme (#46)- BUST
- 2008- Anthony Randolph (?- not sure if it was Nellie)- quite possibly the most overrated young talent in the NBA right now. He could easily be a BUST.
Mullin’s best picks were actually pre-WE BELIEVE with Biedrins and Monta. Most of his moves post-WE BELIEVE were just awful (trading JRich for NOTHING, foolishly thinking Austin Croshere and Troy Hudson would fill the holes in the roster after that playoff run, and GIVING a 1st round draft pick to the Nets for Marcus “can I borrow your laptop for a sec” Williams".
The Jackson extension had NOTHING to do with Nellie or Riley. Nellie’s even said on his show on KNBR that he had no idea Rowell was in extension talks with Jax back then. That’s all Rowell.
Mullin was as much behind the Harrington for Crawford swap as Nellie and Riley. Tim K wrote on his blog (search his archives) that Mullin was the spearheading the talks with his buddy Donnie Walsh.
JRich is completely right. We’re back to the same ol’ Warriors because of Mullin/ Rowell’s dumb roster moves, Jack’s tantrum, and Cohan’s expected incompetence.
Mullin had 2 dismal seasons before he convinced Nellie to come back to the game and rescue him. Why don’t Nellie and Riley get that same leash from Warriors fans?
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by Atma Brother ONE on Dec 26, 2009 2:09 PM PST up reply actions
I would rather have Biedrins than any of the guys you listed who were drafted later. If you twisted my arm you could convince me on Josh Smith, but I’d rather have the big man. Also, Biedrins was the center on the We Believe team, making him the only Dubs center to have won anything in quite a while. I think you are significantly undervaluing him. Now obviously if someone is willing to give us the better end of the talent stick in a trade, we should be willing to part with anyone.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
by Supafishal on Dec 26, 2009 2:33 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Also, Biedrins was the center on the We Believe team, making him the only Dubs center to have won anything in quite a while.
Actually Nellie sent him to the bench during that crazy 16-4 run to qualify for the playoffs and went uber-small/ fast/ exciting. It was called Warriors Tempo- faster than the Suns. Andris Biedrins was a peripheral part (at best).
WE BELIEVE happened because Nellie was coaching out his mind, Baron Davis was playing out of mind, Jason Richardson was playing out his mind, Matt Barnes was playing out of his mind, and Stephen Jackson was playing out of his mind. Mickael Pietrus, Al Harrington, and Monta Ellis played (though not in the 1st round for Al and Monta) important roles as well. Foyle and Sarunas were remarkable sideline cheerleaders as well.
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by Atma Brother ONE on Dec 26, 2009 2:59 PM PST up reply actions
Second round draft picks can't really be busts
You shouldn’t expect anything out of them, and be pleasantly surprised when they turn out to be good.
It’s too early to call Wright or Randolph busts.
I’d rather have Biedrins than Jefferson, Martin or Varejao.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 26, 2009 3:01 PM PST up reply actions
It was Cohan
Nellie’s even said on his show on KNBR that he had no idea Rowell was in extension talks with Jax back then. That’s all Rowell.
I garentee that. Otherwisw why wouldn’t he lose his job? Rowell is just cohan’s hatchet man. What more do u expect???? Cohan was pissed w/ Baron- thought jackson was best player on team. He’s said it in interviews
I’m was not a fan of Mullin as GM, as you might recall, so I’m not all that comfortable trying to defend his moves. And I’d regularly supported Nelson up to summer before last. Despite that, I think you paint a skewed picture here.
Wright is quite a bit higher in my book than yours, though the evidence is paper thin either way, so the last two #1s are not bad from my perspective.Wright is clearly better than any of the previous bigs selected not named Andris.
AB & Ellis are clearly the two best players as things turned out, but that’s not counting 4 of the other 6. Plus, I’d contend there’s more to evaluationg Mullin’s pre-Nelson drafts – put in context the 05 & 06 drafts: he was drafting for a Montgomery-coached team & both years trying for a big man that would pay off in 4 of his 5 picks. That none did is partially due perhaps to Taft’s bad health (scouts were drooling over him before he got hurt IIRC) and a dearth of alternatives at the time.
He was also overly confident that he could trade Foyle and/or Murphy that summer so those bigs may have been intended merely for depth. He dangled Baron that summer, again possibly for a big, and found no takers. That’s when he realized he was stuck with the same roster and virtually “traded” coaches instead. At the time it was a good move, but it was also his only move. Bringing Montgomery & Baron back with that roster was not going to work and everyone could see it.
Recently, AR is qutie a bit higher in my book than yours, though he may never be a super star, all star, or even shooting star, he is more likely to be a star-ter than a bust. Wright + AR = 2 good bigs who are rotation-capable. Remember Wright was pushing AR in this year’s camp? Let’s hope he doesn’t go the way of Taft. You definitely have a point about AB & Monta, I just think the context matters and that throwing the “bust” label around AR & Wright is unfair.
Lastly, by focusing only on Mullin’s drafts we ignore our most glaring disagreement – Nelson’s impact on this roster in the past year-plus. But I’ve said more than my share already. What I’d like to read I guess is how you think Nelson has improved the roster other than drafting Curry? What “big” move has worked? Harrington for Crawford? Reincarnating Webber? And is Curry any more or less likely to be a bust than AR?
Appreciate the comment man.
What I’d like to read I guess is how you think Nelson has improved the roster other than drafting Curry? What "big" move has worked? Harrington for Crawford? Reincarnating Webber? And is Curry any more or less likely to be a bust than AR?
As of right now, nothing has “worked” for Nellie and Riley. This 8-21 team is a complete disaster. They’ve mostly just been dumping salary hoping for brighter days with these chips.
It’s wait and see mode for me.
(To clarify I don’t think AR’s a bust right now, just saying he’s not a good NBA player right now and I honestly don’t have a clue about how his NBA career will pan out. I can’t get a good read on him- at all. I see why people think he could be a star, but I also see why he could be a bust.)
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by Atma Brother ONE on Dec 26, 2009 11:28 PM PST up reply actions
Speaking of not wanting to defend Mullin but...
Doesn’t Mullin get credit for bringing Nellie back? That’s got to be one of his best moves so far. I doubt that it was Cohan or Rowell’s idea, but rather Mullin’s good relationship with Nellie that led to the hiring.
Golden State of Mind: Unstoppable Baby!
by Fantasy Junkie on Dec 27, 2009 8:25 AM PST up reply actions
This is all very true. Mullin gets all that credit for that move.
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by Atma Brother ONE on Dec 27, 2009 9:46 AM PST up reply actions
The team should not make a trade unless it is for a franchises player and you don’t want to break up the core of our young talent to do it.
AR-ME-SC- are untouchable right now, You may not be able to trade AM for anything of value so it’s better to wait and see how he develops.
AB-CM-RT are expendable for the right deal.
I believe MM-SC-DG-RB are expiring contracts…
KA-BW are not going to bring any value being injured…
We have to realize when a team is going bad it is a reflection on the FO and Coaching staff, they start to look for excuses and trying to find scapegoats, and in this case there is none, IT’S THEM……So we stay with the same core and look for that one piece without selling the farm…we have no choice but to look for next year… play the young guys and let them develop because that’s the team….
Nelson will need to go get his wins with another team becasue this team needs to stay together for the future, forget the now, we can be good in 2 years if we stay together with this next draft and one of the good free agents..
People can't see this through his thick contract,but...
Maggette is a very useful piece to this team when he’s used correctly.
And no,I’m not sayin this because he’s been doing well lately.
by Cpt. Jack in the Box on Dec 26, 2009 12:35 PM PST reply actions
Useful in a way that might not be that obvious
I believe that Maggette befriended Monta Ellis, and got his attitude turned around at the beginning of the season as Jackson moved to the Bobcats. From I can’t do this, to ’i’m the go-to guy’, followed by several 30 plus point games. Watching him at the beginning of the game, and throughout they are goomba’s and show each other a lot of respect.
See y'all on the Jumbotron
I have a problem with AR being “available” but not Morrow or Curry.
It’s just like us to keep wings and guards but keep this revolving door of bigs spinning around. AR is talented and ACTUALLY has a pulse. He already affects the game a whole lot more than Morrow does. Curry can be a main contributor, but he just not terribly good right now. I’m sort of agreeing with other people when they say for a guy with supposed high BBIQ, he sure makes some dumb nut mistakes. If it were me, the order of availability amongst the youngins’ would go:
1. Morrow
2. Curry
3. AR
But at the same time it would take a helluva proposal for me to part with any of them. And in no way should we package these guys with Maggette to get any Wizards player. That just shouldn’t be in our agenda at this point.
Also, ATMA I think you give Riley too much credit. He’s made some horrible trades thus far (actually I can’t think of a trade where he came out ahead). Needless to say his early report card would look pretty bad so far. But I’m not saying he should get the lion’s share of the blame here, I think that would have to go to CoHell. I think they’re hamstringing Riley more than anything else.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
Bad
No one should be untouchable on the W’s especially Monta. I don’t get what the attraction of Monta is. Yes he’s good and gives you 25 points a night, but that’s because he takes a lot of shots. His scoring requires a lot of shots taken, assist to turnover ratio is 5/4.3, has a bad attitude, etc. I’m not necessarily saying to trade him, I’m just saying that the W’s need to keep their trading options open.
Randolph is the one player the Warrior’s player that should remain on the team. He’s the best big man on the Warriors (sorry Andris). I want to see what he can do as a starting PF when Biedrins/Turiaf come back. He’s long, athletic, rebounds, blocks, etc. Although, he takes a lot of shots, can be inconsistent, emotional, etc. He’s still young, so the W’s should just let him develop. The Warriors shouldn’t try to move him since he is talent. He’s going to be one the players that got away and have an all star breakout if they do look to move him. But like I said, no one on the Warriors should be untouchable, so if there is a trade that could better the Warriors team, then by all means, keep it in mind,
On to Ellis, Curry, and Morrow. If Morrow develops his ball handling and playing making a little bit, then he should be a starting SG. Which means, that either Ellis or Curry have to come off the bench or be traded. The 1-2 punch of Baron Davis and Monta Ellis back court worked out because Davis is 6’3, but knows how to guard bigger guards (SG). Curry and Ellis are a match up problem. Neither one of them are that big to guard SGs. If Morrow does develop his game, then he should be a starting SG, and either Curry/Ellis has to be moved.
Maggs is a good player, but his contract is a bit too big. The one thing I do like about him is that his scoring efficiency is consistent. He can get to the foul line anytime he wants and he’s a good rebounder for a SF. He displays veteran leadership and does a lot of things for this young team. But the Warriors should try to move him since his contract is big and he’s a bit overpaid. But gotta give props to Maggs.
ATMA IS WRONG ON ALMOST EVERY SINGLE POINT
Smart trades are made out of strength not out of weakness and desperation which is what our brother Atma is suggesting.
There is no player that is competently untouchable on this team, for instance, Cleveland offers us LB for Curry and AR? do we not make that trade? sure we do but that’s not going to happen so unless there is a deal out there that makes us a much improved team our core young guys are untouchable…
The last thing we do is blow this team up, that is the dumbest thing we can do, for one thing it is almost impossible to build a team just by trades, it’s a proven fact that you build through the draft, for the most part all your doing is inheriting someone’s headaches because the great players you need are not being traded…
All this wild talk of trading away everyone is ludicrous, the only way you make a trade is if it improves you dramatically, for instance, if your going to trade Monta, then you need to get something better in return, a player that will make your team better for years to come, and if that’s not there then you shut the H up, you don’t dangle your players around like puppets on a string…
A trade say involving someone like Rudy Gay for a Monta would have it’s benefits, we get size and strength for a high volume shooting guard who lacks size…we then could pair him with Curry and play him at the 2/3, that would allow Curry to develop without having an out of position player trying to take his spot…but if a trade for Monta is not going to make this roster significantly better for years to come then forget it….this is only an example..
We need a franchise type player to get to the big dance, so i would structure and try to position myself for that type of deal, either looking for that perfect trade this year or trying to structure it for the free agents in 2010…if that’s not possibile then I look to the draft and weigh my options on trades after I see where i stand in the draft…
Either way, you have to look to the future not the NOW and suffer through it without trying to build entirely through trades and without blowing up what you have….
What’s another couple more years of suffering if your a W’s fan? a cake walk through Disneyland?..If the FO don’t have this kind of mind set then your sunk anyway…
Sometimes I wonder...
if AB1 and I actually watch the same team play. Maybe he’s just way to close to the details to see the big picture. I do think the attitude of fans like AB1 are counterproductive to the goal of this franchise.
Riley’s a sharp man
Let’s make this extremely clear: Riley is a Puppet. His level of brightness is not relevant. I have no official proof that Riley is not calling the shots, but I know what I see, and I know how this team operates, and to believe that Riley is really pulling the strings would be shocking to me.
Selling on Morrow and Curry right now wouldn’t be the best idea.
Warriors fans are excellent at overrating the quality of their own players. Neither of these guys plays any D, so regardless of their offensive abilities, they are both way below average on half of the court. It is now apparent that concerns over the Curry pick are now well founded (too small, not a great defensive player etc, etc).
On the other hand, selling on Ellis right now might be a wise move
I’m not so sure here. I was one of the very few who did not like Ellis’s contract when he received it. In general, shelling out $50M+ for players who excel on only one half of the court is suicidal. But it is painfully obvious that Ellis is the only player on the W’s who can consistently create his own shot and beat his man off the dribble. So, if he’s traded, I’m not sure who sets the offense.
[Trading Randolph and Maggette] SHOULD be happening right now.
Obviously the Maggette signing has been nothing short of lunacy, and of course if you can get a team to take him, then clearly, you must trade him. Because his offensive game right now is solid, it is a perfect time to make a move.
But a Randolph trade “should be happening right now”? Are you nuts? The guy is 20, the coach jerks him around and holds him to a higher standard than his guards, and (wait for it)….he actually tries on the defensive end.
[Biedrins and Turiaf] are great trade pieces
I would only be interested in trading one of these guys if someone takes one of our bad contracts (Maggette) or if a superstar is coming in return. Turiaf is much more likely to be traded because of his contract. But these two guys are the best defensive players on the team, and AB1 wants to trade them both.
W’s fans, please listen to smart posters like Kenntoe above, who obviously “gets it.” AB1’s plan of “if you try to play D, or if you are taller than 6’9”, then you are on the trading block" is one of the more ridiculous ideas I’ve heard recently, but it’s common from AB1. I know he runs this site, but can we ban him for too many stupid ideas?
Warriors fans are excellent at overrating the quality of their own players. Neither of these guys plays any D, so regardless of their offensive abilities, they are both way below average on half of the court. It is now apparent that concerns over the Curry pick are now well founded (too small, not a great defensive player etc, etc).
I agree with you on some of your points, but this was the one point I do agree with Atma on, The Curry and Morrow….
AM is not going good right now so his value is not very high and we need to see what we have over the course of a whole season, also I disagree with your assessment of Curry, your not seeing the same player I am, he has Nash like abilities and sees the floor very well, he does make a lazy pass now and then but for the most part he is rock solid, you can build around him, he actually out played CP3 the other night, what else do you expect from a guy that’s played about 20 + games in his career? his defense is coming along fine, and so is his offense, if the Lakers had him he would become a star because they know how to bring young talent along…
I like Curry and Morrow
But c’mon, neither one is a defensive wizard. Each one has obvious flaws in their game.
we need to see what we have over the course of a whole season
Cryptic, don’t we already know what we have with Morrow? An excellent (albeit occasionally streaky) shooter who goes completely unconscious 3-5 times per year, a below average ball handler, and a bad defensive player. I like the guy, but he’s not going to bring any championships to Oakland.
I disagree with your assessment of Curry…he has Nash like abilities
Curry is at least 4 years away from having Nash like offensive abilities (remember it took Nash a good 5-6 years before he became the best PG in the NBA), and one of my biggest concerns about drafting Curry was that he has Nash like defensive abilities (read: None).
he actually out played CP3 the other night
You mean, until CP3 hit 4FT’s and nailed a turnaround jumper over Curry to ice the game? You mean until then?
if the Lakers had him he would become a star because they know how to bring young talent along
Really? The Lakers are a talent factory? They brought Kobe along 14 years ago, and we know he would have succeeded with any team. And now they are bringing along Bynum (up and down with him)…anyone else? Is Jordan Farmar a star? Why not? He is a Laker.
I like Curry and Morrow
But c’mon, neither one is a defensive wizard. Each one has obvious flaws in their game.
Your judging Curry way to quick, I understand he is highly coachable and has a desire to be the complete player….I don’t see him as the reason for our defensive woes…He is coming along and has shown at times he can play defense at a high level…he has been caught coming off screens and fouling to much but it takes times to become good on the defensive end.
Crypt says-we need to see what we have over the course of a whole season
Don’t we already know what we have with Morrow? An excellent (albeit occasionally streaky) shooter who goes completely unconscious 3-5 times per year, a below average ball handler, and a bad defensive player. I like the guy, but he’s not going to bring any championships to Oakland.
He played sporadically last year and lead the league in 3 pointers….he started struggling in the Boston game and has not got untracked since. So we just see if this is a pattern or an aberration. Haste makes waste my friend…
Crypt says-I disagree with your assessment of Curry…he has Nash like abilities
You-Curry is at least 4 years away from having Nash like offensive abilities (remember it took Nash a good 5-6 years before he became the best PG in the NBA), and one of my biggest concerns about drafting Curry was that he has Nash like defensive abilities (read: None).
Career Season Averages
Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
96-97 PHX 65 2 10.5 0.423 0.418 0.824 0.2 0.7 1.0 2.1 0.3 0.0 0.97 1.42 3.3
97-98 PHX 76 9 21.9 0.459 0.415 0.860 0.4 1.7 2.1 3.4 0.8 0.0 1.29 1.91 9.1
98-99 DAL 40 40 31.7 0.363 0.374 0.826 0.8 2.1 2.9 5.5 0.9 0.0 2.08 2.45 7.9
99-00 DAL 56 27 27.4 0.477 0.403 0.882 0.6 1.6 2.2 4.9 0.7 0.0 1.82 2.18 8.6
00-01 DAL 70 70 34.1 0.487 0.406 0.895 0.7 2.5 3.2 7.3 1.0 0.1 2.93 2.26 15.6
There is no comparison between where Curry is right now and where Nash was at this point of his career…..Curry is way ahead of the curve…he’s better right now that Nash was in year 4, give this kid a break…he’s going to be one of the best point guards in the league in a couple of years…
Crypt-he actually out played CP3 the other night
You-You mean, until CP3 hit 4FT’s and nailed a turnaround jumper over Curry to ice the game? You mean until then?
Your just being a little too critical, great offence beats good defense and that was a 1 on 1, but for the game he kept CP3 under his normal stats, so it wasn’t CP3 that beat us it was there team effort..
Crypt-if the Lakers had him he would become a star because they know how to bring young talent along
You- Really? The Lakers are a talent factory? They brought Kobe along 14 years ago, and we know he would have succeeded with any team. And now they are bringing along Bynum (up and down with him)…anyone else? Is Jordan Farmar a star? Why not? He is a Laker.
The job that did with Bynum has been a model for how to bring along a player, If Coach Jackson had AR and Curry they would have special coaches for them and bring them along at the right pace…they have a history of making the best of their players, take a look at RT, he was brought along nicely, they seem to get the most out of there men…you hardly ever see them make a bad trade of not bring along their young guys…they have a smart and sold ownership and organization…
Once again, you’re not going to build your team just by trades, it’s a proven fact that you build by the draft and then developing the players under good coaching…you might get lucky and find that one piece through a trade like we did with Baron and the Lakers did with Paw, but for the most part it’s not the answer to building a team for the long haul…
I want to emphasise that
Curry did play solid defense on CP3, especially at the end of the game, but CP3 is one of those guys who can get around great D.
Kevin Durant put up 30 points on Ron Artest the other night. Yknow, Ron Artest, one of the greatest perimeter defenders of all time.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 26, 2009 3:09 PM PST up reply actions
ron artest doesn’t look like the ron artest that was such a great perimeter defender anymore. he’s lost a step, and quicker guys can beat him off the dribble a lot easier than they once could. he’s still a good defender, but he’s not the lockdown guy he was four years ago.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
My point was more that
even good-great defenders can get beaten by amazing offensive players.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 26, 2009 4:34 PM PST up reply actions
Building a contender
Once again, you’re not going to build your team just by trades, it’s a proven fact that you build by the draft and then developing the players under good coaching
I don’t buy that at all. I was researching this during last year’s finals and never finished the piece because I got busy. I’ll try to resurface it again.
Let’s look at the current contenders:
- Lakers- Kobe Bryant (draft day trade), Lamar Odom (trade), Pau Gasol (trade- if that’s what you want to call it), Ron Artest (free agent signing)
- Magic- Dwight Howard (won the lottery), Rashard Lewis (sign and trade), Vince Carter (trade)
- Celtics- KG (trade), Ray Allen (trade), Paul Pierce (great daft pick), Rajon Rondo (great draft pick)
- Cavs- LeBron James (won the lottery), Shaq (trade), Mo Williams (trade)
The two teams that are trying to build via draft right now that I have confidence in are the Portland Trail Blazers (though aside from Roy and Oden I’m not that impressed with their other picks yet), the OKC Thunder, but again they both won the lottery with Oden and Durant (double winnings that year).
Memo to Warriors- Make some lopsided trades for a superstar or win the lottery already!
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by Atma Brother ONE on Dec 26, 2009 3:13 PM PST up reply actions
Crypt-I don’t buy that at all. I was researching this during last year’s finals and never finished the piece because I got busy. I’ll try to resurface it again.
You-That is not the norm though; they got lucky with Paw, that was a fluke, the majority of teams build through the draft the Lakers are an exception and it has to do with players wanting to play for a big name franchise, and we don’t have that kind of clout…
That is not the norm though; they got lucky with Paw, that was a fluke, the majority of teams build through the draft the Lakers are an exception and it has to do with players wanting to play for a big name franchise, and we don’t have that kind of clout…
I can give you far more examples right now of teams building through the draft with a trade or two, but mostly all franchise players are gotten through the draft, I include exchange of draft picks or position in the draft
Kobe-
LB-
D Howard
Brandon Roy
CP3
D Williams
Derk N
Duncan
Bosh
D Wade
Mellow
In a blue moon a team a superstar can be had but not very often and most the time it’s to one of the better teams like Garnett to Boston….it’s just not feasible for a team like the GSW to expect to get the type of players they need to be a real contender in trades because it will cost them the farm and you have to have players around your super to make it work, so if you deplete the team to get a big star it may not work for years if you have nothing left…the draft day is the best time to build the team…either by trading up or getting lucky in the ping pong balls or just good scouting..
What your suggesting just don’t work, you think we need to blow the team up to try to get some wins right now, but that will ruin the team in the years to come…we have to be patient and wait for the perfect deal while we keep our guys together and build for the future…and if the coach don’t like it get a new one that will…that’s my feeling anyway…
Memo to Warriors- Make some lopsided trades for a superstar or win the lottery already!
If it’s the right deal to make us contenders then bring it on, but if it’s going to sacrifice the future forget it, just build up what you have and look to get a free agent without giving away the farm next year…
You forgot Spurs:
David Robinson
Tim Duncan
Tony Parker
Manu Ginobli
Were all home grown
But in reality you need a good mix of drafting and trading. But I think Drafting a contender is better in the long term than trading.
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David Robinson
Tim Duncan
Tony Parker
Manu Ginobli
Were all home grown
But in reality you need a good mix of drafting and trading. But I think Drafting a contender is better in the long term than trading.
It’s a big list,…the draft is the best way unless you get externally lucky, and usually that only happens to the best teams…..Baron for us was the exception because he had some flaws….but he was a true high caliber player..
You can try to move up in the draft or make a trade on draft day or get lucky with your position, but that’s where almost all the franchise players are gotten…
The worst thing we can do right now is blow this team up and have to start all over again, we have talent, and there young, Beans and Ronny, along with Monta, AR, Curry, Morrow, Bukie, it’s a proven fact the longer a team stays together the better they are, SA for an example….
This constant shuffling of players and disruption of the chemistry of the team is not good.
In hindsight, JRich should of never been traded, that was a bad trade and it broke up a very good team for years to come, that move had Nellie written all over it..that was Billy Owens for Mitch, and it broke up that team after they made name for themselves…
I think Baron and JRich both know how special the “We believe” team was and for that reason I believe they both want to have there numbers hung in the W’s rafters…that team had charisma and was attracting other players…so the best thing we can do is stay together until they prove there not good enough to compete or until they gell and become a playoff type team, we can’t afford another team to blow up… and in the mean time if there is a deal out there that we can’t refuse that puts us over the top for years to come then and only then pull the trigger…Don the tinker bell Nelson has to leave this team alone and just do his coaching until we can replace him…
You’re missing the point. To win in this league you either pull off a heist trade or you win the lottery.
David Robinson and Tim Duncan were not “home grown”. The Spurs won the lottery and had 2 super stars walk right in. They didn’t “develop over time” like people expected Andris Biedrins’ post game/ jumpshot to mythically develop over time a few years back.
Parker and Ginobili are really nice players, but take away Duncan and they’re a fringe playoff team this decade- at best, especially with Ginobili’s injuries.
No one’s saying you don’t have to draft well, but the key is again making lopsided trades or winning the lottery and netting a virtually instant superstar.
Let’s look at this list:
Kobe- pretty much a forced trade by the mamba’s agent
LB- won the lottery
D Howard- won the lottery
Brandon Roy- NOT a superstar and will NOT lead his team farther than the 2nd round unless Oden (lottery prize) morphs into a superstar (I think he can- he’s got freakish size and athleticism)
CP3- Fantastic pick, but again that team isn’t winning a championship anytime soon unless they win the lottery or make a lopsided trade
D Williams- Fantastic pick, but again that team isn’t winning a championship anytime soon unless they win the lottery or make a lopsided trade
Derk N- Fantastic pick, but again that team isn’t winning a championship anytime soon unless they win the lottery or make a lopsided trade
Duncan- lottery prize
Bosh- great player, but again lottery win/ lopsided trade needed in Toronto and I doubt he stays there
D Wade- That was just an exceptional draft with more than one “lottery winner” and remember he was excellent by year 2, so he didn’t need to “develop over time”
Mellow- That was just an exceptional draft with more than one “lottery winner” and he was instantly a very good player
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by Atma Brother ONE on Dec 27, 2009 1:00 PM PST up reply actions
i disagree on roy and CP3.
i think paul is probably the 2nd best player in the league right now. if they didn’t make so many bad decisions with their supporting cast signings, that team would be a contender. decent draft picks, 2nd tier free agent signings and things of that nature could make that team a title contender in a hurry. too bad their management is completely unwilling to spend any money to help CP3 out. he deserves better and might go down as the new KG (stranded on a franchise that doesn’t know how to build a winner, would make an instant impact if surrounded by respectable talent, might just win a title as soon as he leaves town, etc.).
as for roy, he’s a fringe superstar and if oden develops into a legitmate #2 guy, that team is a real contender. i’m less confident than you seem to be about his future- those injuries are piling up and i’m getting nervous, but roy could be the best player on championship team. the blazers just need to turn some of that depth into the piece that pushes them over the top.
related question: if you’re the blazers, would you try to land bosh by centering a package around oden? they’d have to clear some future cap space, but i think a bosh/roy tandem is a much safer bet to be dangerous for a long time than a roy/oden tandem and toronto is going to lose bosh to free agency anyway, so why not take the risk on greg oden to see if he becomes a franchise center and inspires that team to play some actual defense. would both teams jump on that?
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Cryptic
Perhaps I’m jumping the gun a bit on Curry, but I just don’t see how a 6’2" skinny PG ever becomes a lock-down defender, especially playing for the W’s. Coachable? Sure. But a lot of players are coachable. And of course, we will then need a coach who’s not half-asleep and hungover to do the coaching (oh wait, that’s right, Nellie only coaches the coaches…LOL, so it’s up to Keith Smart and Stephen Silas). You have to believe I really like Curry. His improvement over the past few weeks is noticeable. It appears the game is slowing down for him, and he’s starting to adjust nicely. He is most certainly not a bust. But I just don’t see him ever being great, and a backcourt with Monta Ellis just is too small not even remotely defensively oriented. Would you rather have Curry (lottery #7) or Aaron Brooks (late first round #26)?
I’m not terribly concerned about Morrow. All good shooters go through slumps. If he’s on, he really helps the team, but if he’s shooting poorly, he’s completely useless because he doesn’t do much else well. His stroke will return, but will his defense and ball handling pick up?
The Nash comparisons are kinda apples to oranges. IIRC, Nash played behind (and learned from) Kevin Johnson during his 1st stint in PHX, so that might have something to do with Nash’s slow start and then ascent in years 3-6. Why don’t you compare him to…CP3 (or Deron Williams or Russell Westbrook or another recent lottery PG)? Those guys are all much further ahead than Nash was at the same point.
I’m not an expert, but I’m guessing that CP3 just isn’t that motivated right now. I would look at the situation in NOLA before giving Curry too much credit. CP3 did what he needed to do to win. That’s what great pros do. No one cares that he was “outplayed” for the first 3 quarters.
Finally, don’t get carried away with the “If player X was on the Lakers…” because I could retort with “Well, if player X was on the Nets…” and we would argue all day and get nowhere. The Lakers are the Lakers because of Shaq and Kobe (and Phil). I really don’t think their development of young players has much to do with their success. There is no question that their front office punks the Warriors front office, but they have certain advantages (10 time NBA champ coach, league MVP, busty women) that the W’s just cannot match, so players will want to come there.
by UncleCliffy on Dec 27, 2009 12:24 AM PST up reply actions
Trade Someone
zzzzzzzz….the dubs are plain boring. Same old story again this year. Barely keep my eyes open anymore.
You may need to change your Meds?
The team is anything but boring, there playing some great basketball for being undersized and undermanned, we need to see what the team is like when our bigs come back and get in shape..
With this kind of manic episode, I would think Librium might be a more effective management tool to use when watching a W’s game?
What about it Bob !!
unless this vet is lebron cp3 or another bona fide star
our roster will still suck… and now we’d be randolph-less (a 20 year old w/ all the potential in world)
What the warriors need is a plan
Really there is three ways you can build your franchise, you have a bunch of young pieces and you trade them for veterans like the Celtics did or you develop your young talent like the Blazers did or you clear space and lots of it to sign a free agent like the Knicks are attempting to do. What plan do the Warriors have? That is the problem, you could not pick one of those three that the Warriors are doing.
My suggestion would be to develop our young talent and set year by year improvement goals. We suck this year and its partially due to injuries and partially due to lack of experience/talent. Nelson is not into talent development, he is into immediate winning and veterans so he must go. Secondly we need to get rid of Maggette to a team that needs to clear cap room this year for bad contracts that run till 2011. There are a multitude of teams trying to clear room for the free agent bonanza this year but have bad contracts that will run till 2011. We need to package Maggette and our expirings for that 2011 year.
Next step we need to start the young guys, all the way through. In the draft we should have a top 5 lottery pick no matter what, where they should draft best player available. By next year our line up should look something like this unless we get the number 1 overall pick which would be a miracle.
Curry
Monta
Kaz
Randolph
Biedrins
No starter over 26 and solidly talented
Our bench would include guys such as Brandon Wright, Turiaf, Morrow, and the expiring contracts of whoever we got in the deal and Vlad.
If we were attempting to make the superstar trade, it would be much easier then and our position of current weakness would be much stronger then.
Bingo
What the warriors need is a plan
AND STICK TO IT. Mullin had a plan, fire him. Rile will probably halfway do his plan and be fired….
Curry
Monta
Kaz
Randolph
Biedrins
I don’t think that line up will scare anyone next year, but if we can position ourselves to sign a big free agent this summer that’s all we will need to get to the next level….we have some expiring contracts and if we just get to the place we can free up enough cap space to get one of the top free agents that would put us over the top for now…the draft and a good FA……just what the Doctor ordered…
PATIENCE
We can’t get top flight free agents. We tried to get gilbert and elton brand when we had a better rep and got laughed at.
We need to build internally or thru trade. Unless we randomly luck into a celtic like sitution, it’ll need to be first
PATIENCE
Patience is a virtue the FO can’t afford, and is a commodity that the W’s fans have run out of, but it is the only wise answer to this dilemma….
by Cryptic on Dec 26, 2009 4:03 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
thats fair
but i’d rather stockpile young talent and see what happens the trade for mediocre player who is better now and get smoked for next 10 years on the trade…
its something warriors have done forever.
but i’d rather stockpile young talent and see what happens the trade for mediocre player who is better now and get smoked for next 10 years on the trade…
its something warriors have done forever.
I could not agree anymore, we have to be very careful and not trade away the only future we have right now out of panic to try to boost ticket sales…
I know it’s not a great possibility but I would try and position myself just in case we could land a good FA this summer…If we keep the core of the team together it is far more appealing to potential free agents than to be traded to a depleted team out of desperation..
Patience is a virtue the FO can’t afford, and is a commodity that the W’s fans have run out of, but it is the only wise answer to this dilemma
Rec’ed for cutting right to the heart of the matter in one sentence.
“We’re bored and frustrated so let’s make a random big move for a random biggish name casual fans have heard of” is a terrible MO for a franchise. Alas, it also seems to characterize a large percentage of the posts on this site.
Eyes on the prize. Develop the kids, stay flexible, strike like a viper if the opportunity to move some of your pieces for an actual franchise player — as opposed go an overpaid schlub like Jamison, Arenas or West — rears it head. Alternatively, just wait it out, keep developing the kids and the chemistry, and see if we can’t become Atlanta Hawks West.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Dec 27, 2009 5:18 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
There is no way we can get a good-great player this off season
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 26, 2009 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
There is no way we can get a good-great player this off season
You always have to consider the possibility, we have had some over the years but not many, but if we keep the core of the team and find the right fit it is a possibility.
The best thing to do is create a new culture in the work place, look what Mark Cuban did? he made it attractive for players to come, I think the biggest problem is with Nelson, most big name players would not want his overpowering presence around them all the time…his attitude is a result of his over inflated ego, Don has given us some good years and some not so good ones, it;s now time for a change…
Keep the team together look for new leadership…
We would have to trade our talent for expirings to clear enough space
if we did that, no one would want to come here.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 26, 2009 5:27 PM PST up reply actions
Eyes on the prize. Develop the kids, stay flexible, strike like a viper if the opportunity to move some of your pieces for an actual franchise player — as opposed go an overpaid schlub like Jamison, Arenas or West — rears it head. Alternatively, just wait it out, keep developing the kids and the chemistry, and see if we can’t become Atlanta Hawks West.
EXACTLY !!!! Rec’ed =)
Atlanta Hawks West
The Hawks aren’t winning the championship anytime soon and I don’t think anyone seriously thinks they’re a contender. But again their best player (Joe Johnson) came in via trade. Minus Johnson, Bibby (trade), and Jamal Crawford (trade) I doubt they’re nothing more than a fringe playoff team.
Most great players in this league “don’t develop over time”. They put up big numbers pretty quickly.
Again this is the same line St Jean/ Mullin peddled for Mike Dunleavy and how they just needed to develop him over time.
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by Atma Brother ONE on Dec 27, 2009 1:04 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, the Hawks might not be championship material, but I think pretty much anyone here would be doing jigs if within a year or two the Warriors were in their shoes: a young, exciting top 4 playoff seed, with room for a bit of improvement. By PF/PA — a pretty good quick-and-dirty measure of quality, I think — the Hawks are currently the #2 team in the NBA, after Boston.
The Hawks comparison is really less about how the talent was acquired then about the composition of the talent, and about the value of letting the wine mature a bit before pouring it out willy nilly. Monta and JJ are pretty comparable as marquee players: both elite scorers and reasonably good passers who nonetheless need to be complemented by good ball-handlers, defenders and rebounders to succeed. Bibby and Curry are roughly comparable; ditto CJ/Buike/Morrow and Teague/Crawford/Evans. The only real stretch in the analogy, imo, is whether Wright/Randolph/Turiaf/Biedrins are comparable, quality-wise, to Williams/Smith/Zaza/Horford. I really think they are — the principal difference being that the Hawks’ guys have had longer to mature, both as individuals and teammates.
The Randolph/Smith comp seems particularly apt to me. Both were seen their first couple seasons as mercurial physical freaks who could fill up the stat sheet in a zillion categories, but who might never develop the maturity or discipline to be truly dominant players. As JSmooth approached the end of his rookie contract, “rumors” that he was on the trading block proliferated. The Hawks held tight and re-upped him — likely speculating that the wine might someday coalesce. And, lo and behold, at the ripe old age of 24, Smith is opening up like a fine Bordeaux: calming down, smooothing out the rough edges, playing more of a team game, posting career highs in TS% rebound rate, assist rate, to go with a career low in turnovers. Do you really think it’s unrealistic to expect a similar career arc from AR?
Sure, Joe Johnson may nominally be “the man” on that team, but right now he looks like their third most valuable player, after Horford and Smith (an observation borne out by the plus-minus numbers). Which is to say, the Hawks’ recent jump — from kinda pretty good team to Top 5-6 NBA team — owes more than anything to the dreaded “development of the kids.”
Bottom line tho’: no two situations are really analogous. The quality of the “grapes” of this current Warriors core is necessarily different from those of this Hawks team; but it’s also totally different from those of the Warriors teams that preceded it. I mean, with the Dunleavy kool-aid, I never really drank what Saint and Mully were selling, because neither the numbers nor the eye test really supported it. By contrast, I happen to think this current core (Curry/Monta/Buike/Morrow/Wright/Randoph/Turiaf/Biedrins) is the best the Warriors have had since the Webber years. This isn’t based on wild speculation of future development, but more on a (mostly) dispassionate look at their actual NBA production relative to their ages. (See Dave Berri’s thoughts on the matter for details). Throw Maggs and a high-ish first-round pick into the mix and it’s really hard to imagine this team being bad for much longer.
Moreover … I think I made it pretty clear that following the “Hawks’ model” is Plan B. I suspect we agree that Plan A should always be to make anyone and everyone available for a bona fide both-ends-of-court franchise player in his prime. Where we differ I guess is in our thresholds of “franchise player.” I don’t think Amare Stoudmire clears the threshold; and I don’t think guys like West, Arenas and Jamison are even close (I’d put all those guys more or less in the same category as Corey Maggette). And the thing is: once you blow all your trading chits on one of these guys, you’ve basically hamstrung the franchise for a while. See today’s Wizards, Knicks, Sixers, Bobcats, Pistons, etc. as cautionary tales of teams that committed too much money and/or talent for big-name not-quite-elite vets. I just don’t see any value in making a rash move for the sake of making a move. Again, man: patience!
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Dec 28, 2009 2:06 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Good thoughts man, but you’ll find no patience for me for this sorry franchise!
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by Atma Brother ONE on Dec 28, 2009 5:08 PM PST up reply actions
Haha, fair enough. I guess I think our impatience should be more with Cohan/Rowell cluelessness than with Monta, Randolph, Curry, Morrow, Kelenna, Turiaf, Beans and the crew. As much as I hate the management, I can’t help liking all the kids (and not just ‘cos they’re Warriors). Biggest problem with a deal for a random big-name vet is that it does nothing to topple Cohan/Rowell — indeed, it may prolong their reign by bringing in more short-term casual fans and perpetuating the illusion that they care about winning.
I dunno, I just can’t let go of my crazy new-decade dream involving the maturation of the kids, Evan Turner, Larry Ellison, new retro-ish unis, and Steve Nash replacing Nellie as head coach…
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Dec 28, 2009 6:16 PM PST up reply actions
Good thoughts man, but you’ll find no patience for me for this sorry franchise!
I hear ya loud and clear,my problem is if we have another meltdown it could end my career as a fan…which might not be as big of problem as I am imagining =)
The other big concern is that the FO need’s someone to blame for the big mess, maybe they can blame it all on Jack? that might be there only option…..So our money has to be on Riley right now that he’s not tied to Don’s belly button…I hope he’s seeing the big picture….because a bonehead trade could set this franchisee back once again…
I think a good topic is who would replace Don? who’s out there that could make a difference? I love Jim Barnett as some kind of an assistant…he still loves to teach the game to the young guys..
Keep AR , trade Maggs...later
We are too willing to lose AR. It will be a huge mistake. Keeps Maggs until the year is over. We can’t afford to lose another contributor for bench warming expiring deals. Were too injured and with no buike he has too stay until the offseason. Then do a Maggs for Mo pete deal and were good to go from there barring injuries.
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
I still believe that if we trade someone it has to be a guard.
All our 1’s and 2’s don’t play Defense. Ellis and Curry have the best trade value of the bunch, so if they can fetch an upgrade I’m definitely up for it,
One of the few to have appreciated Cap'n Jax. Do well in NC, get that 8th seed!
Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!
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