RECAP: Warriors 109, Rockets 111 - Not Again!
by Fantasy Junkie on Dec 4, 2009 1:16 AM PST
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123 comments
That was a baaaaad call
Final Boxscore | Warriors Web | Open Thread (1400+ comments)
It was a game the Warriors should have won. They were up 10 with 6:20 remaining and then a series of poor offensive possessions led to a 4.5 minute scoring drought in which the Rockets went on a 12-0 run. They did the same thing to the Clippers last night. The Clippers didn't score a bucket in the last 9 minutes of the game until Baron hit a meaningless 3 with seconds remaining. Impressive. The Warriors started taking bad shots and turning the ball over in conjunction with the Rockets D stepping it up.
2 things just killed me in tonight's game. First was the foul call on CJ Watson when he allegedly grazed Aaron Brooks' arm on the Rockets last possession. There were some questionable calls tonight, but how do the refs call this? CJ might have been close but it didn't look like he touched Brooks. That play essentially decided the game. It gave the Rockets 2 free throws in a tie game with just 2 seconds left. Ridiculous. One of the worst calls I've seen.
The second was that 4th quarter. Ugh the Warriors went small ball with CJ, Monta, Curry, Morrow and Maggette. That's supposed to be an advantage right? It forced Adelman to take out Scola who was having a very nice game in the paint. Oh but all it did was allow Carl Landry to pick up where Scola left off. If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it. The Rockets rolled off a 12-0 run, holding that mini-lineup scoreless for 4.5 minutes. Monta didn't make a field goal in the 4th as they bottled him up. Why didn't Nellie make a change? Why didn't he throw in Vlad or Hunter to mix it up a bit? Everyone in the arena could see when things started to go bad. Hey Nellie, call a timeout, make a substitution, do something! Even though Nellie didn't make any moves, the players on the court still needed to execute and they didn't with poor shots (e.g. Maggette taking a long 2). Put it this way, the Rockets should have never had the ball with 19 seconds left and the score tied. The Warriors played hard all night but just let the lead slip away.
Monta?
Yikes. The Rockets sure bottled him up in the half court tonight. He couldn't get anything in the half court offense. How many times did he drive in the lane, jump in the air and then have nowhere to go with the ball? Way too many. He got blocked 7 times and turned it over 9 times. He made 9 shots, missed 18. I think at one point he got frustrated and took a 3 early in the shot clock. Additionally, you could see he was frustrated with the officials all night. The Rockets defense gave him fits and he seemed to get most of his made buckets off fast breaks.
Even though Monta had an incredibly poor game overall, I thought he came out with a lot of energy in the 2nd half to set the tone for the rest of the quarter. On the Rockets second possession of the half, he stripped Aaron Brooks and then found Morrow for 3. On the very next possession, he stole the ball from Chuck Hayes and blew past the Rocket defenders for a layup. It was just 2 possessions, but he gave the Warriors a jump start to get the 2nd half rolling. After that, you could see the defense getting scrappy, going for more steals and diving on the floor - something that didn't happen enough in the first half. I really don't think the Warriors take the lead in this game if Monta doesn't make those two huge defensive and offensive plays. The Warriors went from down 7 at the half to up 4 with 9 minutes to go in the 3rd. It was a major turning point in the game.
A-Mo!
What can I say, he's really expanding his game and becoming a very nice player. He's no longer just a gunner, he's got a nice head fake and is taking the ball to the hole. He even crossed over Battier and took it all the way in for a layup to tie the game at 109. Just watching him up close tonight, he's got the youthful exuberance of a kid with a quickly maturing game. After he made that fantastic pass near the start of the third quarter - a bounce pass from near half court that weaved through defenders to a cutting Radmonovic for a layup, he had a big smile on his face and pointed at the coaches. He's always in the middle of the huddle facing the coaches. When he's on the bench he's even yelling on the court helping the players communicate. I was impressed.
Vlad Radman
What a game from Vladimir - 20 points on 8-13 shooting (4-7 from 3), 8 rebounds, 6 assists, and 3 steals. He was a major reason for the big run in the 3rd to take the lead and hold onto it for a 6 point lead to start the 4th. Can anyone explain to me why he didn't start the 4th or why he didn't get back in the game until there were less than 3 minutes left? Hmmmm. Coach?
Aaron Brooks
Whew. That guy is FAST and QUICK and nobody seemed to able to guard him. I don't know how to compare his speed and quickness to Monta but they feel quite different. Monta has that end to end speed where if you're not already in front of him, you're not going to get in front of him. He's also got the quick first step and amazing body control to finish. Brooks on the other hand, doesn't seem as fast from one end to the other, but when he has the ball in his hands in the halfcourt he just gets in the lane at will. Once he gets just that little room of daylight he explodes and exploits it. Where Monta seems a little more graceful and calculating, Brooks seems more explosive off the dribble. By the way, Brooks is so fast, he makes Steph Curry look slow. It was a very nice night for Brooks with his 25 points, including his 4 three's in the 3rd (14 overall in the quarter).
Random Thoughts
- Chris Hunter didn't play the 4th, why? I thought he was doing a decent job down low. The Rockets scored on him every now and then but he did a good job inside. Perhaps since Scola never came back in the game, Hunter didn't need to either.
- Trevor Ariza played the 3rd and 4th quarters but you wouldn't have known it. He was nearly invisible out there on offense. He scored just 2 points of his 18 points in the 2nd half. He did a nice job containing Monta though. Him and Battier gave him trouble all night.
- I have to give major props to Carl Landry for taking advantage of the Warriors' small ball lineup. He was just great in the paint in the 4th. He finished with 22 points (8-10 shooting), 9 rebounds, 2 steals, and 3 blocks.
- Big shout out to Melissa V of the Warriors for upgrading me with some ridiculous tickets. I was so close that I could see Ronny Turiaf has "Turiaf" stitched into the back right pocket of his jeans. I could see Biedrins and Turiaf joking around during timeouts. I could see that Turiaf's jacket was so small he couldn't button the bottom button and that Stephen Silas suit is so big it looked like he borrowed it from his dad, Paul Silas. I could hear Anthony Morrow yelling from the bench, the coaches yelling "3 seconds" or "traveling", and that these guys are much bigger and faster than tv gives them credit for. Lastly, I got to see the last play drawn up first by assistant coach Scott Roth and then overruled by Nellie (Roth's play wouldn't have worked). Heck neither play worked, but it was great to have a little bit of an insight into the game. Anyways, all those little things you don't pick up on normally were all right there for me and made my understanding the game just a little bit sharper.
- Lastly, I love Battier's game. He usually won't stand out in the boxscore, but he does so many things to help your team win. In this case, it was his 7 blocks and one sweet block on Corey Maggette. See below from different angles.
It's between Vlad and Morrow because both guys had such great shooting nights and contributed all over the floor. I could go either way or cop out and give it to both, but instead I'm going with the new guy for his better overall floor game. Vladimir Radmonovic gets the Warrior Wonder for tonight. He would have had an even better game had Nellie kept him on the floor instead of playing Corey MEgette.
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I blame this loss completely on Nellie. Having essentially 5 guards playing the 4th, when the ‘normal’ lineup was working amazingly in the 3rd makes absolutely no sense.
We cannot blame the players for being forced into major foul problems in the 4th because they were out sized heavily. The blame for that must go on the coach. Is he trying to lose? I really don’t get it at all.His argument for having Scola out makes even less sense when the Rockets have other guys that heavily out size our players.
I really think that Nellie just always wants to go as small as possible and see if he can get a win with it to try to prove a point. But all it proves is that 5 guards is bad.
By the way, that third quarter was really fun to watch! We were churning on all cylinders, both ends of the court (although Brooks went off).
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
the small ball in the 4th and terrible execution on offense killed us
I still really don’t get why Vlad wasn’t in for the 4th.
In before
100 posts about trading Monta and how he sucks.
For the record, I’m still willing to trade Monta because he has glaring deficiencies. 99 more to go.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Dec 4, 2009 1:45 AM PST up reply actions
Sooooooo
Can the Warriors request a “replay game” or something? That NON-GOALTENDING call ended up deciding the outcome of the game. I don’t really know the stipulations or regulations of the rules on how that works, but shit, why the hell not? It was a bad call, and a call that cost us the game.
ワリアーズ！
it did?
i’m assuming you’re talking about the play where ariza touched the rim? if i remember, monta got the foul call and made both FT attempts.
barring any swings in momentum..if he got the and-1, and the game played itself out the same the rest of the way, all he would have gained was one more point if he made the FT, and we would have lost by 1. so i wouldn’t put the loss on that goal tend.
The second offensive foul call
Should have made it a tie ball game, the first offensive foul call should have made it a two point lead for the Warriors, and Ellis making the one free throw for the three point play means that the Warriors would have been up three and the Rockets would have had to foul.
The refs were making sure the Rockets would win the game, end of story.
The refs were making sure the Rockets would win the game, end of story.
Going from 3 calls you disagree with to this next statement is just a little bit of a stretch…
by Missing Barry on Dec 4, 2009 1:05 PM PST up reply actions
The refs were making sure the Rockets would win the game, end of story.
You must have missed barnett saying that some of the fouls called on the rockets were bogus too?
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 4, 2009 10:28 PM PST up reply actions
at the risk of promoting conspiracy theories...
One bad call does not equal another. The two offensive fouls against Monta were particularly damaging in that they both took away points and hampered Monta’s ability to play aggressively. I can’t think of even one call (or non-call) against the Rockets that had a similar effect. I wasn’t there. I didn’t get to watch the stream. I understand that refereeing a basketball game is very difficult. I am particularly bad at it. Still, it stings when questionable calls go against your team and appear to significantly effect the outcome of the game (see CJ’s foul at the end for another call that is understandable, but often uncalled and therefore hard to accept.)
(My grandpa was an umpire for a lot of the high school and junior college leagues in his younger days. When I was 4 my favorite shirt was one he gave me. It said, “Those who can’t do coach. Those who can’t coach referee.” I appreciate the self-effacing humor better now of course.)
1 call does not decide the outcome of the game and did not cost the Warriors the game. I’m sorry, but that simply isn’t the case. Letting the Rockets go on a 12-0 or 14-0 or whatever run at the end cost the Warriors the game. That was not because of the refs.
First was the foul call on CJ Watson when he allegedly grazed Aaron Brooks’ arm on the Rockets last possession.
You know, I didn’t really have a problem with this call. CJ got Brooks with the body while Brooks was still in the air, and since CJ was jumping forward, that means its a foul on him. Maybe it could have been a no call, but it wasn’t a horrendous call by any means.
Lastly, I love Battier’s game.
The only thing I want to say about Battier is that I hate that GSoM doesn’t let us use potty language. I have a lot of bad things to say about those charges Battier takes. Such wimpy Duke basketball style of play, I suppose I should expect it. Don’t get me wrong, Battier’s a fundamentally sound player that does lots of little things to help his team win, but those charges. Argh. It’s half a step above the flopping that goes on in European soccer. At the very least, he needs to turn over his man card for playing that way.
by Missing Barry on Dec 4, 2009 6:58 AM PST up reply actions
Wimpy style of play?
What would have been the manly move here? Should he have stepped out of the way of Monta so that he wouldn’t get hit and knocked down? I think taking charges against someone running full force and out of control is both difficult to do and not get called for the block and also quite courageous. I don’t think most people would be willing to take a hit like that (take a look at the replays and you can clearly see that Monta hit Shane both times) and many NBA players just move right out of the way.
by PhilippeinBoston on Dec 4, 2009 9:39 AM PST up reply actions
Couldn’t disagree more. In neither case was Monta out of control, and both times he calmly passed to an open teammate, whom Battier should have been guarding instead of taking a wimpy charge. On one of them Ellis was in the air before Battier even established position, all he was doing was to move into Ellis’ path, that’s bush league (and a bad call since it’s not a charge when that happens, you must establish position before the man leaves the ground). Both times the pass was well out of Monta’s hands long before the contact was made.
I also don’t see how it’s “courageous” to flop? Sure taking a charge doesn’t feel good, exactly, but it’s really not that big of a deal, especially when you’re a lot bigger than the other person. Most NBA players would try to do their job, which is to play D, and Battier’s responsibiliity was the open man in both cases if I’m not mistaken. Instead he chose the Duke wimpy way out of sliding into a BS charge position. It’s not that I’m against taking charges, if someone’s coming full speed out of control and you establish position and then they hit you on their way to the basket, that’s good defense. That is not what Battier did. It was a flop that wasn’t even relevant to the play since Monta had long since gotten rid of the ball, passing it to a teammate – thus Battier was not guarding the ball nor the rim, and that kind of garbage belongs in Eurotrash soccer, not the NBA.
by Missing Barry on Dec 4, 2009 9:57 AM PST up reply actions
Battier...
… won this game by playing basketball. Knowing how to draw a charge is different from a flop. Some of Maggette’s flops deserve a red card.
Battier played a great game. I acknowledged he’s a good player that brings lots of little things to the game in my initial statement. In these two particular instances, though, he was flopping, and the correct call was the Maggette treatment – a no call (though Maggette was successful with it once). At least with Maggette, it’s because he’s playing a banger that’s too big for him. Battier was flopping on Ellis, a player much smaller than him, when Ellis didn’t even have the ball and it was no longer relevant to the play at hand.
by Missing Barry on Dec 4, 2009 7:49 PM PST up reply actions
Battier......
Did not win this game by laying basketball. He is known for this ability to flop and refs buy it because he does play very good solid defense. In no way were the two charges on Ellis should have been made.
Either they are no calls or blocking fouls. The ball was already out of Ellis’s hand. 99.8 percent of the time there’s no call, .19 percent of the time that’s a blocking foul, and .01 percent that’s a charge.
It was by far the wrong call and the NBA should be embarrassed with these officials incompetence throughout the game.
And of course, you’re entirely objective in this matter.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Dec 4, 2009 11:45 PM PST up reply actions
Should he have stepped out of the way of Monta so that he wouldn’t get hit and knocked down? I think taking charges against someone running full force and out of control is both difficult to do and not get called for the block and also quite courageous
I agree, not letting them take a charge just makes it easier on the offense and it’s already too easy for them now. If they want to take away the charge rule then take away the touch foul rule too.
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 4, 2009 9:58 AM PST up reply actions
See my explanation – this isn’t a case against the charge rule. This is a case of Battier’s “charges” being BS girly garbage that shouldn’t be called at the NBA level (or any level, really).
by Missing Barry on Dec 4, 2009 9:59 AM PST up reply actions
This is a case of Battier’s "charges" being BS girly garbage that shouldn’t be called at the NBA level
Depends on which side you are on, I’m a defensive minded guy so I like his play. It gives the passer an unfair advantage if he’s allowed to pass and crash.
Actually I thought last night’s game was very entertaining all the way thru. It stayed close to the end and featured some nice performances by More-O, Rad-mon, landry and brooks.
Those yellow uni’s suck btw, look like something the globetrotters would be wearing. I kept thinking we should be wearing the whites.
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 4, 2009 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
Sure, if you crash into them while your’e passing, it should be a charge. If you coast into them long after you’ve gotten rid of the ball and he flops, it’s really not giving anyone an advantage. It’s just ruining the game.
Anyways, it was definitely an entertaining game. I said before that I don’t like those uni’s in terms of visual appeal, but overall, they do give me a fun/nostalgic/retro type feel that I like, so I kinda like them overall.
by Missing Barry on Dec 4, 2009 10:24 AM PST up reply actions
Remember that Nellie played 4 guards to start the 4th
and they held their own and pushed the lead up to 10 halfway through the 4th qtr. It was working until the 12-0 collapse.
Yep..Nellie himself has admitted his mistake...
Its seems that going small did the exact thing he wanted…the mistake he made was leaving that group on for longer than he should… once he had that 10 point lead… he should have sent on Rad who seemed to have a great game (which some on this blog need to eat some humble pie about and give the guy a break) and possibly Hunter with Rad… and see if they could have stemmed that run that Houston went on….
On a complete side note… what is with this trend of late to have TWO post game recaps, I personally dont think this is a good idea as it simply splits the post game discussion…
Can we not just have one main Recap?
GSOM Blog Beast!
by BritWarriorGSW on Dec 4, 2009 5:57 AM PST up reply actions
As a lurker, I agree about the two recap thing.
It’s kinda confusing.
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball." -- Connie Mack
Since when did Aaron Brooks deserve Superstar Calls?
Did I miss something? Since when does Aaron Brooks deserve superstar calls?? He gets a foul call on a jump shot with 2 seconds to go? When did the NBA start making calls like this? Those type of calls never used to be made for anybody! Not even superstars. Arent the refs suppose to let the players decide the game. It was a great game that was given to the Rockets by the refs in the last few seconds and OF COURSE Don Nelson once again no doing his job….You would think we could keep a 10point lead with a couple minutes to play and you would also think Don Nelson would have enough sense to take a time out or at least make some substitutions when the smaller line up wasnt working anymore. We are not the Lakers and Don Nelson is not Phil Jackson. You cant just leave that line up in the game with the game on the line and hope for the best. I put this loss on Nellie and the OF COURSE the great NBA refs….
You dont think the players deserve any of the blame for taking bad shots and not taking care of the ball at the end of the game…?
by Missing Barry on Dec 4, 2009 7:01 AM PST up reply actions
definately! Bad shots and bad execution let the Rockets back in the game. But you cant make that call. I could see if Brooks got hammered but other than that the Warriors deserved to at least take the game to O.T.
CJ shouldn’t put the refs in that position. He did get Brooks with the body. It shouldn’t have come down to that to begin with, if the Warriors didn’t play terrible basketball down the stretch, it would never have been close at the end. There are very few games that the refs have a large enough effect to put a team at a significant disadvantage and take some of the control out of the players hands – this was not one of those games. Ultimately, I agree with a lot of people that our lineup at the end was poor, but even mroe than that, with 5 wings/PG’s out there, how were we so bad at taking care of the ball…?
by Missing Barry on Dec 4, 2009 7:24 AM PST up reply actions
watson foul
How can you say that’s the worst call you’ve ever seen? Talk about your hyperbole… The replay was quite convincing in showing contact and the contact clearly had an impact on Brook’s shot and follow through. There were a lot of bad calls both ways last night, that was not one of them. Don’t blame the refs, blame CJ.
indeed
the dreaded cardinal sin of fouling a jump shooter.
Watson's foul was idiotic
Notwithstanding anyone’s disagreement with Nellie’s small ball (what else is new) CJ Watson’s fouling of Brooks was unbelievably stupid. If Brooks makes the pull up jumper you have to hand it to him. Don’t just give them the game at the line. Thank you CJ. Even the Kings can beat Houston at home. We can’t.
There’s no way, that little of contact should be called on the last play of a game. CJ made slight contact after the ball was released. What affected the shot was CJ’s arm and hand, not the bump.
Golden State of Mind: Unstoppable Baby!
by Fantasy Junkie on Dec 4, 2009 11:14 AM PST up reply actions
I can see why
people are saying “the body” given the camera angle of the replay – but the ref called the foul b/c CJ gave Brooks a high-five a the top of his release – completely hammering his follow-through. You have to make that call as a ref.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
I mostly agree, I don’t think you have to make the call, but it was a foul and it’s not a bad call for the ref to make it. CJ put the refs in that position. Also keep in mind on replays its hard to tell if the shot is actually affected or not, often times on the replay it looks like it clearly isn’t, but all it takes is a little nudge that’s not apparently in slow motion to change the shot….
by Missing Barry on Dec 4, 2009 12:20 PM PST up reply actions
well...
referees a rated by the league and if a blatant foul happens right in front of you, on the ball, I would argue as a referee you do have to make that call. I mean CJ hacked Brooks. Now if you want to argue that they don’t have to call some of the charges or off the ball calls that don’t affect the game – that’s valid.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
Well there’s out disagreement. I don’t think it was a blatant foul. Foul? Yeah, sure. But also one that they won’t always call because the contact wasn’t that big of a deal, even though I do agree there was enough to make a call. I guess my view on that play was there was enough contact that it’s not a bad call if they want to call it, but there was also a limited enough amount that they could have potentially let it slide.
by Missing Barry on Dec 4, 2009 1:06 PM PST up reply actions
Any foul on a shooter is blatant
It’s the focal point of everybody watching, and both players’ arms are extended. That’s gonna get called. Additionally, where did Brooks miss? Short. What happens when you get hacked and can’t follow through? You miss short. Easy call.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 4, 2009 10:40 PM PST up reply actions
There’s no way, that little of contact should be called on the last play of a game.
There the same reason to call it as on the first play of the game, every possession matters the same and has the same effect on the outcome.
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 4, 2009 10:32 PM PST up reply actions
The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly
There are few complete players in the league, as good as these athletes are. The trick for coaches is to get players in situations where their strengths are maximized. I think Adelman does this w/his roster. It’s something Nelson is less good at, although in his defense the W’s roster is not anything like as well constructed. He just doesn’t have anyone like Scola or Landry or Battier.
Be that as it may, I just don’t get the insistence on playing Monta at point. Monta has many fine skills, but ball handling is not among them. He now leads the league in turnovers and has 50 percent more than the 3rd place guy. Playing point does not put him in the position to play to his strengths. His stupid and mystifying turnovers last night cost them the game. There are points at which the ball just seems to bounce away from him.
If anyone needs evidence of Nelson’s declined coaching skills, I’d recommend watching the 4th quarter of last night’s game as Landry feasted on the likes of Morrow and Magette up front.
Adelman sucked when he was here.
I hated him. Plus, he kind of looks like hitler if you just add the stache.
Smart would have won that game.
Smart is usually better than Dumb
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 4, 2009 10:03 AM PST up reply actions
Maggette was absolutely dreadful
I can’t believe we are paying him the money we are paying him. He should be called the flopper: he flops on defense, he flops on offense. He’s supposed to replace Baron, c’mon please. He’s still taking 3s you got to be kidding me? Can someone on the Warriors please give Maggette a sharp back hand bitch slap and tell him firmly not to shoot 3s anymore.
Maggette + Watson = 0 defense
Finally, someone mentions Maggette's lack of Defense
Why the hell did he try to flop 3 times against a guy his own size in the 4th quarter?
Maggette gave up 6 points in the paint because he decided not to play defense. It looked like he was afraid to try to guard Lowry and figured he would try to cheat instead of man up.
If Hunter was in there, or Radman came in earlier, we would have had a better chance to win that game
by warriorsvictim on Dec 4, 2009 10:24 AM PST up reply actions
Why the hell did he try to flop 3 times against a guy his own size in the 4th quarter?
Probably because the guy isn’t his size? Landry is a lot bigger than Maggette – simply put, Maggette is not capable of guarding Landry effectively, whether it’s flopping or not. Don’t fault Maggette for being matched up against someone he can’t guard.
by Missing Barry on Dec 4, 2009 10:26 AM PST up reply actions
I disagree
Maggette is a strong ass dude. If Monta can guard Kobe, Corey can guard Landry.
Hell, remember Harrington guarding Yao effectively a couple times? Size is not an issue all the time. maggette needs to man up, play good positional defense, and use his strength
by warriorsvictim on Dec 4, 2009 10:32 AM PST up reply actions
Dude, Landry is a beast of a post player. Do you realize he’s averaging over 22 points per 36 minutes on over 63% TS% so far this year? Dude is an animal down low for any post player to guard. He also has 3 inches and 25 points on Maggette, who’s a wing playing out of position down low against him. You, sir, just have unrealistic expectations. There’s just not a whole lot Maggette is going to be able to do against him.
by Missing Barry on Dec 4, 2009 10:56 AM PST up reply actions
agree my expectations may be too high
but I think Maggette should be able to defend someone like Landry at least a little bit. Maggette didnt really put up any kind of fight at all
Despite what Maggette’s track record is, he has the physical tools to do it, just not the mental ones. I want to see him called out on that.
by warriorsvictim on Dec 4, 2009 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
I dunno why you think Maggette should be able to cover someone who’s playing like an all-star caliber big man. Maggette’s a misfit down low to begin with, he simply is not big enough (both height and weight) to effective guard post players, and on top of that Landry has been arguably the best scoring big man in basketball so far this season. He’s scoring at a higher rate than Duncan, Boozer, Howard, Gasol, Stoudemire (those are the first 5 that came to my head as the premier scoring big men), and at a higher efficiency than Duncan, Boozer and Stoudemire, and isn’t far behind in efficiency to Howard and Gasol (both at 65%+ TS%, ridiculous)….
Sure, it’s fair to call Maggette out on his defense, I do also think he coudl be better. The truth, though, is that he’s a strong wing who’s been put into a role he just isn’t fit for down low. Add in a player who scores like Landry, and you’re in trouble.
by Missing Barry on Dec 4, 2009 12:03 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Maggette should not have been in the game in the first place. I just don’t understand the logic of going small at EVERY position when you have a guy like Radmonivich who gives you all the benefits (spacing, quickness) of going small without giving up the height advantage.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
yeah but...
as Barnett said during the game – at some point you have to play defense and if your man scores b/c he is bigger/stronger so be it. Flopping is not playing defense and the refs are not rewarding that type of play this year. As a player you need to adjust.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
Yeah, that’s fine, I’m not advocating Maggette flopping or anything, just trying to point out to those getting on Maggette’s case that the outcome probably would have been the same whether he flopped or not. Simply put, he cannot effectively guard Landry no matter the method. So I don’t think it’s fair to blame Maggette for being put into a position he’s not suited for.
by Missing Barry on Dec 4, 2009 1:07 PM PST up reply actions
Basically, warriorsvictim said:
Maggette gave up 6 points in the paint because he decided not to play defense.
Well, sure, it’s fair to say he “decided” not to play defense (in other words, flopped), but it’s not fair to say that’s why he gave up 6 points ni the paint. Landry would have scored those points either way.
by Missing Barry on Dec 4, 2009 1:09 PM PST up reply actions
Landry would have scored those points either way.
That’s debatable – even the best players don’t shoot 100% from the floor when they are being guarded. But I agree that Maggette is outmatched – the problem is not trying to play defense.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
maggette too strong
i think part of the reason maggs flops is because when does play D, bodies bounce off of him as though there were fouled – then he collects a lot of quick fouls.
he’s sturdier/bulkier than most players so when the create contact with HIM, the carom off of him as though HE initiated the contact – even if he didn’t.
still – it’s bad D and he has to get better at standing his ground without fouling.
Maggette
stronger than the guy that is 3 inches taller and 25 lbs heavier?
Nope, not at all.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 4, 2009 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
is it just me...
or does Monta look like he has a wooden leg in the first picture?
It's just you.
"Monta is the MAN." -Bob Fitzgerald
by WarriorForLife on Dec 4, 2009 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
You mean like Pinnochio?
Golden State of Mind: Unstoppable Baby!
by Fantasy Junkie on Dec 4, 2009 4:42 PM PST up reply actions
Monta look like he has a wooden leg
you forgot about the moped crash already?
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 4, 2009 10:39 PM PST up reply actions
Monta Ellis with suspect turnovers and decisions in the crunch
I got extremely nervous every time Monta was bringing the ball down. Those 2 silly unforced turnovers were just dumb. Very costly. Right now Monta is leading the league with 4.2 turnovers a game. He is not a point guard by any stretch of the imagination. He doesn’t have the handles or hoops IQ to play that role… at all. He’s a fantastic and fairly 1-dimensional scorer and good rebounder. Let’s play to his strengths and have him come off the ball more.
I completely agree that Nellie didn’t do the squad any favors by not going with Rad Vlad or even Chris Hunter (impressive intangibles) down the stretch. Both of those guys were having great games. The more CJ Watson plays the more this season is going to look like 2008-2009- and that’s a very, very bad thing.
Monta’s turnovers/ blocked attempted and Nellie not playing Rad Vlad or Hunter down the stretch cost this team a very winnable game.
Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!"
by Atma Brother ONE on Dec 4, 2009 10:24 AM PST reply actions
Everytime the TV guys close in on Monta
I look at his hands and think, “Man he’s got small looking hands”. Maybe he can’t control the ball as easily with Keebler Elf sized hands.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
Hahahaha. I’m gonna look for that next time. I think his t-rex arms are also bad for that – causes him to dribble higher!
by Missing Barry on Dec 4, 2009 10:56 AM PST up reply actions
Keebler Elf sized hands
t-rex arms
It is impossible to imagine Monta with these without at least cracking a smile.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Dec 4, 2009 12:36 PM PST up reply actions
Well, to his credit, he's among the league leaders in Minutes per game...
… and I don’t know if there are stats on number of touches or time with the ball, but given the role he’s been playing, he must be pretty high on that, too.
Monta’s TOs came mostly in the beginning of the game, and then those two very painful ones down at the end. No excuses on those late ones.
I was listening to the radio, screaming (well, nearly) to put Rad back in! If he can’t get it done, at least he deserved the chance to save this game, rather than Magette who was just frighteningly awful during that drought.
Monta... will things ever change?
The guy is six feet three inches and never even learned how to dribble? It is absolutely ridiculous how careless Monta is with the ball sometimes.
Can you think of any other NBA “star” at his height that commits as many stupid turnovers per night as Monta?
As much as I want to support Monta, what is really the long-term vision for him on the Warriors? If you are going to build around someone, should it really be an undersized guard with some glaring deficiencies in ball handling/basketball IQ department?
by randolphforpresident on Dec 4, 2009 12:20 PM PST up reply actions
Lebron makes stupid choices
Nate Rob if you want to got to smaller. He is a decent 2nd ball handler, that is why Curry should be the number 1 ball handler. Also AI was f;ashy but made stupid moves.
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
monta needs to get a grip
the last few games i’ve noticed a common turnover for Monta… He races the ball up court, then stops on a dime. But instead of keeping the ball tight with his body, his dribble arm is outstretched. So when he makes that stop, his arm is extended and the ball inertia is forward – therefore he has no real control and ball continues away from his body with his original momentum.
PG’s have to be in control so they can start/stop on a dime. Monta just can’t dribble with that kind of control – he’s always got to be going full steam ahead.
Curry is our PG of the future. Monta, although currently our best player, really doesn’t fit with this team in the longterm. Hope he averages 38 over another stretch and really increases his trade value
by joegiant on Dec 4, 2009 2:26 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Doesn't fit?
How about not being used right? He should be a 2, Curry is the point.Nellie seems to think the exact opposite.
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
Let’s play to his strengths and have him come off the ball more.
Where we gonna get the big point guard to make that possible? There’s not that many big points in the league to pair up with guys like Montay. Maybe we can trick sacto into giving up Tyreke :>)
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 4, 2009 10:45 PM PST up reply actions
I blame this loss on Devean George
I think this was his first home game on the bench. He is bad luck and need to be kept in the locker room.
I’m always down with blaming Devean George. I can’t stand Devean George.
by Missing Barry on Dec 4, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
LOL we can blame him, but you act like we won all our home games before he sat on the bench.
Golden State of Mind: Unstoppable Baby!
by Fantasy Junkie on Dec 4, 2009 11:18 AM PST up reply actions
we can blame him, but you act like we won all our home games before he sat on the bench.
He was hiding under the bench all last season.
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 4, 2009 10:46 PM PST up reply actions
Ammo is having a very nice run here the last 4 games.
Plus he always dives on the floor for a loose ball. Gotta love him for that.
I too am displeased that Nellie didn’t play Chris Hunter, who played well in the 3rd Q, for a 5 guard lineup. What was the point of that? Seems like the Houston small ball lineup was better than ours in that 4th quarter.
Carl Landry would be awesome here.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
Warriors giving game away again - same old, same old Warriors
GSW could have won easily, but too many rookie mistakes being made by tenured veterans. Monta, for being a little arrogant punk, needs to get off of his fantasy pedestal and start playing much better. He dribbles too much, still takes dumb shots, still passes poorly overall and still commits way too many unforced turnovers. The end of the game was ironic for the iconic.
As for Hunter, the Warriors blew it by not playing him in the 4th quarter for nearly the full 12 minutes.
As far as reffing – it seems like the GSW players get no respect because the evidence presented by the mass number of games suggests that NBA refs are ’fronts for the money making stars". In other words, the refs abrogate the rules to the benefit of the superstars (top players) and their organizations, corporate entities that make money off of stardom and the NBA. I am a ref myself and I can clearly see the rules not being applied equally or fairly in an ever increasing mannerism.
Well, we’re screwed by the refs for the foreseeable future then. If the refs actually are “fronts for the money making stars” then we will never get calls because if you’ve seen the commercial with Monta trying to sell tickets, there’s no way he will ever land any major advertisement opportunities.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Dec 4, 2009 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
Ugly one… crappy, crappy outings by both Monta and Nellie. I guess both can claim illness as an excuse, and Monta was at least working hard. But, yuck.
There is no purer condemnation of your team’s basketball intelligence than a stat-sheet-stuffin’ performance by Shane Battier. It felt like Michael Lewis was peeing in my face.
The one genuine bright spot: Anthony Morrow is getting really, really good. The Rockets played extremely tight defense on him, but whenever he was able to break free, he delivered. Great showing by him.
If there’s a reason to prefer Don Nelson over Keith Smart right now, I’d love to hear it. We played too small, were slow to adapt to game conditions, had no idea how to execute in the closing moments, and showed very little energy, despite being rested and at home… there was no strategy, no motivation, no nothin’. And while I’m sure the pneumonia’s affecting Nellie, it’s not like he’s had it for thirteen months. Illness is not the root course of the laziness he’s shown.
It’s time for Keith Smart. I have no idea if he’s a good coach or not, but this current version of Nellie is a really, really bad one. We need to move on.
A proud member of the Golden State Worriers.
We need to move on.
If these guys would win a few games for nellie’s record we could.
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 4, 2009 10:49 PM PST up reply actions
Regarding the reffing, I'm more disturbed by the two end-of-half fouls on Monta than the one called on C.J.
Monta went from 2 to 4 fouls for nothing, and worked hard (I thought) to avoid picking up the inevitable 5th. This really slowed him down, imho, the last 7 minutes of the game, both defensively and offensively. I think Nellie shoulda told him to just go ahead and play hard, score a few more points and don’t worry about #6 (since really, all we needed was a handful of buckets to keep the lead enough to last out the last few minutes).
True, neither of those should be been charges. Ridiculous calls. If the guy has already passed the ball and takes two steps before contact…it’s not a charge. That’s just bush league play.
by Missing Barry on Dec 4, 2009 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
neither of those should be been charges.
If Montay had stopped or turned they wouldn’t have been, that’s why guys don’t do that often, they stay in control to avoid the foul.
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 4, 2009 10:52 PM PST up reply actions
Hand it to Battier
he anticipated position placement in case Monta decided not to shoot but rather dump off a pass. Monta should know these things by now.
Would really have been nice to have a shot blocker down low to bang with Landry and alter Brook’s driving layups? Wouldn’t it be great if we could just pick up a guy like that from say, the D League? Wouldn’t that be swell? I’m sure he’d be playing all the time, especially with the game on the line.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Wouldn’t that be swell? I’m sure he’d be playing all the time, especially with the game on the line.
If you gotta depend on a D leaguer at crunch time you deserve to lose. We’d had years since the Utah playoff to address this situation.
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 4, 2009 10:55 PM PST up reply actions
I'm really starting to hate this team....
I realize they don’t have the most talent on the court most nights, but still, performances like this make me sick. I was waiting for us to blow the lead and we did, but then no adjustments were made and continued to slide. Monta’s head wasn’t in the game the last 5 minutes as well which was disturbing. I’m sick of these losses and the stupidity these guys display constantly.
Dont hate the team
Hate yourself for rooting for this team. You can go for the Fakers for all I care and you don’t have to go thru these every game. But pity you, started hating the Warriors, how heartbreaking the lost was. You sounded like our x captain who leave us for a better team cough cough…. Man dont be a hater win or lose Warriors for life coz We Believe but please trade Maggette away.
Win Or Lose Warriors For Life.........
Wet Floor
I’m surprised i haven’t seen anybody say anything about the last play where CJ slipped and we didn’t get a shot off.
it’s pretty obvious he hit a wet spot on the floor which caused him to take 5 steps in place a la the road runner.
so- can we blame the guys with the mops,too?
He better be hittin' wet spots
Anyhow, he most likely stepped on drinking water over at the team area during the timeout and did not check the shoes.
Monta Ellis
See that’s the thing, people have been saying how good Monta has been, but no one realizes how many shots he actually takes and how many turnovers he gets. The last one killed them.
O rly?
Percentage of possessions ending with turnovers:
Jason Kidd: 14.35
Stephen Curry: 14.32
Aaron Brooks: 14.04
Steve Nash: 13.60
Derrick Rose: 12.91
Monta Ellis: 12.91
go on.
+Monta is by far the best PG in
1) Finishing inside
2) Finishing within 10 feet of the basket (not inside, so floaters or such)
3) 56.9% eFG from 3 pt. at 1.6 attempts per game.
+
gets blocked only 7.4% of times compared to
Tony Parker 11.7%
Gilbert Arenas 8.9%
Rajan Rondo 8.4%
+ refs are obviously biased against Warriors because he doesn’t get to the line nearly as much as superstar PG’s
Chauncey Billups 0.61 FTA/FGA <<<joke, one of the most protected PG’s in the league
Kyle Lowry 0.58 <<<also joke, Idk how he gets superstar calls all the time
Tony Parker 0.4 <<<the most protected PG in the league
Arenas 0.35
Chalmers 0.33
Stuckey 0.3
Monta 0.28 <compare that number to PG’s whose game aren’t scoring inside and it becomes obvious how biased the refs are against him.
+Monta is by far the best PG in
If you look at where he’s playing within most sets, Monta is playing SG. Saying he is playing the PG is like saying Jack was playing PG last season just b/c he initiated plays.
by homer simpson on Dec 4, 2009 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
Getting fouled is a skill. Maybe Monta should get more calls, but maybe he avoids contact often, too. Simply looking at how many FTA’s a player gets compared to FGA’s doesn’t necessarily tell us the refs are biased against them, it just may be Monta isn’t as good at initiating contact to draw the foul as these other guys (compared to someone like Corey Maggette, who’s very good at getting fouled).
by Missing Barry on Dec 4, 2009 1:54 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
well if Maggette takes 12 shots, gets fouled for 4 trips to the line, makes 2 assists and makes 2 turnovers. he has a 10% percentage of possessions ending with a turnover.
your stat rewards players who hoist up shots and punishes those who are reluctant to shoot and pass more often – more passes, more chances for turnovers. more shots, less chance for turnovers.
by homer simpson on Dec 4, 2009 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
i[m sure some of you've mentioned it (or maybe not)
at least we didn’t collapse in the third Q. Let’s beat the Magic (i’m feeling good about this coming up game)
LGW…still.
you are feeling good about facing Dwight Howard with Moore?
He’s gonna have 40 points on 80 FTA
He’s gonna have 40 points on 80 FTA
except the magic are likely to flake out and attempt threes all night like some of the other teams did this season? I think sometimes they fell sorry for our boys and refuse to win the easy way so they lose the hard way?
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 4, 2009 11:00 PM PST up reply actions
When you're down 10 in the 4th you can go small to have an all out offensive attack.
When you’re up by 10 in the 4th, you should be concerned with defense and rebounding, small ball doesn’t help that.
Last night Nellie basically said “We have a 10 point cushion, we’re not very good at defense or rebounding, so we’re not trying that. No, instead we’re going small, try and trade buckets the rest of the game.”
Too bad Houston is a big team that is fast and athletic. Nellie was hoping Monta would drive to find open jump shooters or find Maggette downlow. Ariza basically disallowed Monta from doing that with his wingspan, Landry forced Maggette to be a jumpshooter, and Battier forced Morrow to be a driver, just as they were supposed to do.
I thought Curry was very ineffective in the final period, Hunter should have been in instead. I also think Vlad played his best game, and should have been rewarded with crunchtime minutes. Leaving those 2 in with Monta, Corey, and Ammo would’ve have meant that there were good rebounders at every position. Houston would have had Battier on Maggette meaning that Morrow could just shoot over Brooks, since Ariza would still be on Monta.
Seems Houston of all teams kinda knocks Nellie off his came becasue they are extremely quick and athletic to go with their size. I went to GSoM night 7, saw a lot of this game, the refs were shiezty in both. But just as we shot ourselves out of the game from the line the first time around, we coached ourselves outta this one.
Nellie’s a gamblin’ man’s coach, I aint no gamblin’ man.
Nellie has been lauded throughout his career for being a “matchup genius.” While I won’t deny that some of his matchups have occassionally been brilliant, his is seriously hamstrung by his slavish devotion to playing small. The Warriors dominated the 3rd quarter because our matchups favored us as the BIGGER team. With Hunter and Vlad in the game, the Rockets were forced to play bigger to deal with our size. Because Landry and Scola are both only 6’9, this put them at a relative disadvantage. Combine that with Vlad being able to spread the floor on offense, pulling Scola out of the lane, and we had the recipe to beat Houston. Nellie’s assumption that playing small will always favor us is proof that he has become too set in his ways to still warrant his “genius” title, and indeed his position as head coach of this team.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
by Supafishal on Dec 4, 2009 3:05 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree it was a mistake to play as small as we did, BUT, getting Scola out of the game was a good thing. Landry and Scola may only be 6’9, but they’re both a lot better than any big man we had active last night, especially at stuff big men are supposed to do.
by Missing Barry on Dec 4, 2009 5:10 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed
Without any big men available (Chris Hunter & Mikki Moore don’t count), getting Scola off the floor was imperative. It was a necessary gamble that didn’t work. It still doesn’t mean that hitting on 17 with the dealer showing a king is a bad idea.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 4, 2009 10:51 PM PST up reply actions
we’re going small, try and trade buckets the rest of the game."
which was the smartest thing to do except the players didn’t do it.
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 4, 2009 11:02 PM PST up reply actions
It would have been smarter if Maggette and Monta weren’t performing so poorly.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 5, 2009 12:02 AM PST up reply actions
Hey, I’m actually a Hawks fan but I like both the Warriors and Rockets(mainly cause I have money on them to win more than 36 games), and I just felt the need to comment on what I think is a misconception I heard watching the broadcast last night and which was posted again on this post. Anthony Morrow(why was he not this good at Georgia Tech!?!?) did not so much cross Battier as he was ran off the 3 pt line. Battier’s not a great defender because he’s especially quick like Rondo or physical like Artest, he’s just the smartest defender in the game. If the one of the best 3pt shooters in the game is aproaching the 3pt line with your team down 2, what do you do? You make damn sure you don’t give up a 3 and run him off the 3pt line so you don’t give your team a chance to lose in regulation. That’s why he allowed himself to be crossed.
Agreed. But Morrow isn’t known to be the best ballhandler or have the quickest feet. So I was just pointing out that it was nice to see him be able to add that to his repertoire. People have to respect the 3 and instead of shooting it, he did the smart thing and made a great play to tie the game. Big play, big shot.
Golden State of Mind: Unstoppable Baby!
by Fantasy Junkie on Dec 4, 2009 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
Two issues
1. He ran morrow off the shot. Then he reached on Morrow’s crossover and got beat. He didn’t respect Morrow’s ball handling and Morrow made a great play.
2. When you’re down by 2 with 13 seconds left, I’m not sure how much of a good idea it is to try to cross up one of the best defenders in the league and then careen to the basket when you’re known as a bit of a 3 point specialist. At best, you tie up the game and give them a chance at the W. At worst, you’ve put your team in a fouling situation. You should really be looking to take the last shot there, IMO.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 4, 2009 10:55 PM PST up reply actions
CJ's Kicks
Sorry for the digression, but anyone know what kicks CJ Watson was rocking last night?
Maggette suck
He owe us this lost. He kill our chemistry he slow down the game he try to get a foul which the ref are sick and tired of calling it until they stop calling it. Maybe it is Nellies fault letting Maggs stay on the floor. But he should earn his minute by not playing like garbage.
Win Or Lose Warriors For Life.........
sjax
is probably feeling pretty good tonight after losing to the nets.
Hahaha
We are going against the Nets next week. I was listening to ESPN podcenter, and they were predicting that Nets gonna get their first win against the Golden State, because we are all bang up.
Win Or Lose Warriors For Life.........
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