Polling GSoM: Will the Golden State Warriors lead the league in turnovers this season?
by Atma Brother ONE on Dec 7, 2009 7:49 PM PST
in Polling GSoM
28 comments
Game Thread #20: Warriors @ Thunder - Battle For Our Mascot
Hash is working on a fantastic recap and IQofaWarrior is assembling the exhaustive linkage for tonight's blowout loss to the Oklahoma City Thunder as you read this, but I thought this Polling GSoM segment was in order.
If I had to pick one picture to describe the Warriors 2009-2010 season thus far, this would be it:
The Dubs really need to stop eating these for breakfast.
Jump for a look back at some words from GSoM's 2009-2010 Golden State Warriors preview that unfortunately have proven to be true through almost a quarter of this season.
Macro-Warriornomics - WE BELIEVE WE SUCK :: GSoM's 2009-2010 Golden State Warriors Preview
Biggest Weaknesses
The Human Powered Turnover Machine
Barring no injuries and if Monta Ellis can make through the season without hopping on a "low-speed moped", it's a pretty safe bet that the Warriors will lead the league in turnovers. Monta Ellis, Stephen Jackson, Corey Maggette, Anthony Randolph will be the main culprits. Rookie Stephen Curry will probably add to the turnover totals considerably, but we will excuse the rookie.
We'll be using this picture quite a bit in our recaps this season.
Low Hoops IQ
Top to bottom this is one of the dumbest rosters in the league. It can be painful watching them struggle to throw the simplest inbounds pass. Part of that is being young, but most of that can be attributed to players who simply aren't that sharp on the court and off the court. We'll just leave it at that. We're not in the business of hurting the trade value of players on the home team- well at least today.
Well today we are in that business.
Just the facts and nothing but the facts:
- The Warriors currently lead the league in turnovers.
- "Point guard" Monta Ellis leads the league in turnovers. In 8 games out of 20 so far this season Ellis has as many turnovers if not more than assists.
- Corey Maggette, Anthony Randolph, Vladimir Radmanovic, Ronny Turiaf all average more turnovers than assists right now.
- C.J. Watson, Chris Hunter, and Mikki Moore are the only players on this roster that have a 2:1 assist : turnover ratio. Watson is a low volume dime dropper most likely gone by the February trading deadline, Hunter is a recent D-League call-up, and Moore is a journeyman.
I'll let you draw the appropriate inferences in the comments.
GM Larry RIley- hope you're on the phone trying to wheel and deal!
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We will lead in turnovers
and Monta will lead the league individually
But it will not be Monta’s fault
Nor the Warriors
One of the few to have appreciated Cap'n Jax. Do well in NC, get that 8th seed!
Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!
Yes I would have to agrre with ejdacanay
It will be the fault of the horrible officiating in the NBA. The league officiating is HORRIBLE I counted over 37 points lost in the Magic Game to non calls or bad calls for the other team. Monta is an all-star caliber player but a rookie gets more calls, Harden it’s a crying shame. Monta doesn’t turn it over nearly as much as the box scores shows, at least 3-5 of those each game are non calls or crappy calls by horrible refs. For example tonight he was called for a walk and a double dribble when they should have just got a called. I’m surprised Monta hasn’t punched one of these jerks cause they deserve. I’m done.
It's all about the killer cross-over baby!
by warriorsfiend on Dec 7, 2009 8:00 PM PST up reply actions
WE ALSO LEAD THE LEAGUE IN TO FORCED
We are currently #1 in the league in turnovers forced and Monta is second in steals individually. We average 16.6 TO on offense, last in the league but we were 27th just yesterday. The team with the lowest TO rate is the Hawks with 12.1 TO. On defense, we are causing opposing teams to cough up the ball 18.5 times, #1 in the league, with BOS coming in 2nd at 17.2 … we are #1 in TO forced by a clear margin while being within .5 TO on offense of being ranked 23rd. We have a POSITIVE TURNOVER +/- of +1.9 a game. That is identical to the LAKERS, at +1.9 and comparable to the +2 of the Hawks, the team that has given up the fewest TO in the league so far … The Orlando Magic have a TO +/- of -1.1 … The Suns are a -2.2 … the Blazers -2.3. Does this paint a slightly different picture for you?
Refs hate AI
Maybe the Monta as well? Maybe he is one of those players those players they talk about in the locker room.
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
monta plays like AI
and has all those tats too!
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Monta's turnovers could be historic!
Monta Ellis currently has 82 turnovers for the season, according to ESPN.com. He has the opportunity to break Artis Gilmore’s 32 year old record, of 366 turnovers in a season, according to here. With his recent upswing of 7-9 turnovers a game, there is a VERY good chance.
Lets go Monta! Lets shatter this record and give the Warriors a chance to be in the record books for once!
by dj fuzzylogic on Dec 7, 2009 8:13 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Lets shatter this record and give the Warriors a chance to be in the record books for once!
don’t worry, Erick Dampier is already in (as a Warrior) for most blocked shots in a single quarter (8).
Wow!
That’s awesome. Of all Warriors to hold a record… Eric Dampier with butter fingers. Maybe that’s why he was so good at repelling basketballs from the hoop on defense (and offense).
by dj fuzzylogic on Dec 7, 2009 8:27 PM PST up reply actions
Wow...
I was trying to think of a guard that would be close to that record…. Allen Iverson got up to 344 once, but he also had 596 assists that season, a number which seems far out of the reach of Ellis at this rate.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Dec 7, 2009 8:38 PM PST up reply actions
Steve nash is close, guess he sucks too
by crab dribble cocktail on Dec 7, 2009 9:08 PM PST up reply actions
Nash's assist to turnover ratio
is nearly 3:1. I’m not suggesting that Monta sucks because he has turnovers like crazy. Players with the ball in their hands that much, like Nash or D.Wade, tend, not always, to have these issues.
But Nash’s assists also account for at minimum 22 pts for his teammates. Also, you have to figure in to what extent Nash’s near 4 turnovers game versus Monta’s recent 7-9 turnover per game average accounts for points off turnovers for the other team. Monta’s first quarter mishandle where Nenad Krstic picked him clean led to a bucket by Sefalosha on the other end. And we saw this frequently towards the end of the Rockets game where he either got blocked or dribbled it off his food in the waning minutes of the 4th quarter. Turnovers aren’t just abstract stats which means the opponent gets the ball, it also means the other team could possibly score off these mistakes. And if Monta dominates the ball to get 30 plus points a night, yet surrenders, hypothetically speaking, 10-12 points off his turnovers, does that really make him “great”?
Monta’s possibly historic turnover record isn’t to overshadow the strides he’s made as a player — offensively and defensively. I honestly think if he has the skills to be on the verge of super stardom if he plays smarter. He’s young, so he’s got time. But those turnovers — along with everyone else on the team’s turnovers — can really hurt the Warriors as we witnessed quite a bit in the last few games. And lastly, if you couldn’t tell, I was being facetious about the turnover record. Though, I would be pretty excited if another Warrior held an NBA record, no matter what it was.
by dj fuzzylogic on Dec 8, 2009 10:26 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Monta Ellis and Stephen Curry have the exact same number of assists since Stephen Jackson was traded. The differences are Monta has played 43 minutes per game with an assist to turnover ratio of .92 while Stephen Curry has played 36.5 minutes per game with an assist to turnover ratio of 1.61. Give the rookie the ball and let him run the offense!
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Dec 7, 2009 8:20 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
Not that I think Curry would be mistake-free by any means, but play to Monta’s strength. Move him off the ball, especially when closing out quarters and games.
Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!"
by Atma Brother ONE on Dec 7, 2009 8:22 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah with the amount of times he drives to the hole and doesn't get a single call
he’s going to shatter that record!!!! I rather watch Monta drive to the hole every other play than watch Curry pass the ball, get over your little boy crush with curry kid.
It's all about the killer cross-over baby!
My point is, why can’t both occur? Why does Monta need the ball in his hands to drive? If he caught the ball while slashing, he probably wouldn’t be so predictable and wouldn’t pick up so many charges.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Dec 7, 2009 8:29 PM PST up reply actions
Offtopic from this post:
Blackboipachino, 5 minutes ago:
“FINALLY made it to the bus wit the team..ever had ALL OF YOUR FLIGHTS delayed??wish I coulda played tonight but we got another one n2 days”
Not really a surprise
If a team leads the league in scoring and pace of play they will almost always lead the league in turnovers. Just the nature of the beast. If you want less turnovers, then get a walk it up hlaf court team. Sounds boring to me.
by crab dribble cocktail on Dec 7, 2009 9:01 PM PST reply actions
actually, it's usually the opposite
07-08 Warriors 7th fewest TOV per game
06-07 Suns 9th fewest
05-06 Suns 3rd fewest
04-05 Suns 7th fewest
03-04 Nuggets 20th
02-03 Kings 12th fewest
01-02 Kings 8th fewest
by cheesy poofs on Dec 7, 2009 10:34 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
My fearless predicion
The Warriors will lead the league in turnovers, and in opponents turnovers.
Even adjusting for their high pace, the Warriors turn the ball over much more than league average, but they also force much more TO’s than league average.
Monta Ellis turnovers are killing us!
I love Monta Ellis game and his ability to get to the bucket almost at will but once the defense starts to collectively trying to stop you then you have to give up the ball! This is something the coaches should be preaching to him. We have shooters!! Even if they miss one or two you have to keep getting the ball to the open man instead of driving the ball into traffic. If we keep turning the ball over 20+ times per game we will never win…
God Willing...
The way the REFS are officiating we won't win many games either.
I’ve watched every game this season and I’ve come to the conclusion that even with a budding superstar, best shooter in the game, and an extremely entertaining team the NBA hates the Golden State Warriors. I’ve thought this for years and years and years. This year is simply the most eye opening. I’m guessing we’ve lost at minimum 6 of our 14 losses based on officaiting alone see (Pacers,Bucks,Cavs,Celts, Magic, Thunder). We can’t even get foul calls for our best player when he’s being hacked over both arms (pietrus), it’s a JOKE. We might as well all hope for some decent ping pong balls that will give us a player that David Stern likes enough to actually not screw us nightly. We’re not going anywhere with all these injuries any ways, just give it up, this season is OVER. I’ll still watch every game, and root for my team to win nightly.
It's all about the killer cross-over baby!
Yes
Yes — with the way Monta is turning it over I have no doubt.
by Dawn Callahan Kettlewell on Dec 8, 2009 10:35 PM PST reply actions
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