Can we get some friggin bigs please?!
by gswLLBatman on Feb 1, 2009 2:15 AM PST
75 comments
Night after night I see the dubs getting, out rebounded on both ends of the court. I see or rather skinny but good center getting boxed out by the other team's center who has about 100 pounds on dre while our 4 guards get out rebounded by one scrub big. I see the Warriors obviously need another big. Trade a few of our guards for a legit big at least 250, grabs boards like they're gold, plays defense and for don nelson's crappy system can run. The solution to everything I just said which is also one major reason why the warriors lose games is an easy fix. No more of this 4 guard ne biedrins crap. No more maggs on the Tim Duncuns, David Wests, or Gasols. No more Jackson Ding up the best player on the other team. Just because his defense is great doesn't mean he can stop Bosh or Dirk and when all it takes to shut em down is a guy their size.
Trade options:
I like the idea of getting Gooden. His a good rebounder has some offense but his slow. I said this last year and got hate for it but i still think we should get Tyrus Thomas. Athletic, big, high energy, plays d. Perfect. The only thing is Chicago has a crap load of guards so idk if it would happen. Brandan Bass from the Mavs, Landry b/c Bob and Jim said so, one of the Lopez brothers, David Lee (probably not), Paul Milsap, Varejo, BIRDMAN, Hakim Warrick, . I mean I know I'm throwing out names but any big that could rebound and has size would be an upgrade over Kurz/Randolph/Jax/Maggs playing power. Any love,hate, player suggestions down below
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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BIRDMAN
i would like to have him cept i dont know if he has the offensive game to play the 4
by gswfan1 on Feb 1, 2009 2:40 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I was all for grabbing Birdman last year when he came back and then again this offseason, but I dont think Denver is giving him up now for anything we’d offer. Theyre looking for a big with a post game.
"It’s a hobby of mine. Kind of like collecting your fingernail clippings or pooping in jars." -olympic mike
by sam23 on Feb 1, 2009 8:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't even need to pay him
Just kick him down a crack rock… and he’ll join for free
by Gurthy on Feb 1, 2009 12:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
we need another real big like turiaf, not some tall skinny dude like ty thoms or hakim.
we need another guy with some MUSCLE to scare people away.
by HoLdEmUP on Feb 1, 2009 2:55 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
how about the original turiaf?
bring back foyle! lmao
we gon' make 'em run, make 'em follow the lead
nelly on the side lines with tricks up his sleeve
in the bay, we go hard cause we playin' for passion
you know who it is, aint no need for askin'
by thecity_8 on Feb 1, 2009 4:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
CARL LANDRY!!!
Him playing next to Beans would be a pretty decent front court.
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
by JustSomeName on Feb 1, 2009 3:15 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Of course we all would want a star like Amare or Bosh or Dwight, but realistically speaking, Landry would be a possibility in a trade.
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
by JustSomeName on Feb 1, 2009 3:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i know. Nellie should have showcased AR more. maybe Houston’s GM is one of those suckers who believes in upside over actual production.
by the evil monkey on Feb 1, 2009 11:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
why does this keep getting rehashed?
Nellie does not play bigs, at least ones that play inside on offense. What was the quote when Hendrix got cut in favor of Davidson, something like ’ He plays too much inside, we want someone to hit jumpers and spread the floor.’
No wonder the Dub’s always run 4 guards and beans regardless of who is healthy, on the team or available.
Damn, if the Dub’s landed Garnett they’d bench beans and run 4 guards plus Garnett with the same fricken results.
by jtrosa on Feb 1, 2009 8:51 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
thats totally false
The warriors run 4 guards and Biedrins to get their best 5 players on the court. If they had another big, Nellie would play him. Nellie loves mismatches, but that doesnt mean he wont play big guys. Remember when Dallas landed Dirk and Nellie said he envisioned him as a 2 or a 3 with 3 or even 4 7 footers on the floor together?
"It’s a hobby of mine. Kind of like collecting your fingernail clippings or pooping in jars." -olympic mike
by sam23 on Feb 1, 2009 8:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what about earlier in the year
when we had Wright, Randolf and Turi healthy and the starting guards were down? Did we ever run out a bunch of bigs to create a mismatch?
Nellies mismatches= many small guys running around bombing away with no boarding or defense.
by jtrosa on Feb 1, 2009 9:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
correction
Nellie will play bigs but only when they play like they are small
ie: Dirk
by jtrosa on Feb 1, 2009 9:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nellies mismatches= many small guys running around bombing away with no boarding or defense.
Haha, and they are mismatches only because no other coach is stupid enough to want to match them.
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 1, 2009 10:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+1 HAHAHAHa
dont you mean “genius” enough to match em?
by 123707THIZZ on Feb 1, 2009 3:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, but just b/c you have a mismatch doesn’t mean it’s good. if AR, RT or BW can’t take advantage of the smaller guy in the post (BW has the best chance) and they are getting worked on the other end, it’s a bad mismatch for us. Turiaf & AR would take fadeaways in the post. BW would try to back in and get to the hook, but at 200 to 205 lbs he usually can’t get close enough to where his hook is automatic… (i’d guess up to about 5-6 ft away)
besides, we shouldn’t count guys who weigh 197 and 200 lbs respectively as “bigs” no matter how tall they are. right?
Nellie’s played Big Vic, Alton Lister, Gatling, Tyrone Hill, Seikaly and Webber. He isn’t a great coach, but he’s an above average NBA coach. fans in general need to stop getting fooled by upside and potential and flashy plays.
i’m beginning to think that if there was a situation with the chance to draft Stockton or Jason Williams after their 1st 2 years (w/o knowing what they would become) that most ppl here would draft the flashy highlight reel passing and pistol pete like upside of “White Chocolate” over the fundamentally sound, great feel for the game and toughness of Stockton.
by the evil monkey on Feb 1, 2009 11:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nellie’s played Big Vic....
Nellie’s played Big Vic, Alton Lister, Gatling, Tyrone Hill, Seikaly and Webber. He isn’t a great coach, but he’s an above average NBA coach. fans in general need to stop getting fooled by upside and potential and flashy plays.
Big Vic… softest big man in the NBA and known for outside shooting.
Alton Lister…old.
Gatling…similar in play to Beans, quick but not a traditional post player.
Hill… more traditional post player struggled with W’s, Allstar once he left.
Seikaly.. traditional post player, hated Nelson.
Webber… traditional 4, forced to play the 5 …hated nelson
Nelson likes 99% of his bigs to play a small game to force mismatches.
by jtrosa on Feb 1, 2009 1:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
sheesh. you must really hate Nellie.
Bucks days, Lanier, Terry Cummings, Mark West, Jack Sikma, Dave Cowens, Mokeski, Lister, Nater, Benson, etc.
Mavs, juwan howard, dennis rodman, gary trent, sean rooks, danny fortson, dampier, mbenga, calvin booth, najera (before he could shoot).
for it being his 1st 3 yrs in the league, Tyrone Hill didn’t struggle and he never should have been an all-star. Vic was finesse, but not soft like BW or Shawn Bradley or POB (kind of like a Josh Powell type). Lister played as a youth with the Bucks – also coached by Nellie. still, Gatling nor Beans play like smalls.
But maybe you truly believe this. So let’s just trade Dris & Turiaf for some bigs who play like guards or for some guards (probably have a lot of value), screw Blake Griffin if we somehow win the lottery, screw looking for Carl Landry type bigs via trade & the draft. Right?
Because that’s what you’re essentially saying. We all know Nelson’s not going anywhere. He’s too stubborn to let the media look like they were right by bailing and w/ the economy and whatnot, Cohan isn’t going to fire Nellie and fork over money to another coach.
play a small game to force mismatches.
Nelson does like bigs who have small games, but for spacing. He likes to play small lineups for mismatches. Not my philosophy, but I doubt if he had Shaq or Hakeem or Duncan or Malone in their primes that he would bench them or try to have him play more like a guard.
by the evil monkey on Feb 1, 2009 3:14 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Cohan isn’t going to fire Nellie and fork over money to another coach.
see Montgomery, Mike
fwiw, agree with most of your post …
by hardcore on Feb 1, 2009 8:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
not one of those guys can play any offense outside of 7 feet from the hoop right now……..how do you expect to play any 3 of them at the same time?
"It’s a hobby of mine. Kind of like collecting your fingernail clippings or pooping in jars." -olympic mike
by sam23 on Feb 1, 2009 11:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The other night Van Gundy said
that we were the smallest team in the league, he didn’t elaborate on if it was by position or on average but whatever, that has to change.
by qin on Feb 1, 2009 8:55 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Bigs and Nellie
As long as Nellie is the coach, you can forget about having two legitimate big men with legitimate reserves for them. That’s not his philosophy or style of coaching.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 1, 2009 9:29 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
again
thats not true. WE havent had 2 legitimate big men worth putting in the lineup together since Nellie has been here, much less two quality backups. That does NOT mean Nellie WOULDNT do it if he had the pieces. At every other stop along the way Nellie has started two or more bigs when he has them.
"It’s a hobby of mine. Kind of like collecting your fingernail clippings or pooping in jars." -olympic mike
by sam23 on Feb 1, 2009 10:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nellie wants bigs who can score
Thats the biggest reason Randolph isn’t getting any playtime this season. Defensively he has lapses, but is a pretty good shot blocker. But on the offensive end he has nothing, and Nellie wants all 5 positions to be able to score consistently. Thats why Nellie doesn’t like to normally play Turiaf at the 4, Turiaf is an offensive liability. So whoever we get to fill in at our 4 spot, i expect them to either have a respectable post up game or a jump shot from 15ft and out.
by kyzah on Feb 1, 2009 10:11 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
on the offensive end he has nothing,
Rudolf can score with the right plays for him, he’s got hops and speed. He’s a lot better shooter than Dris, he just needs some coaching tailored to his skills
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 1, 2009 10:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what kind of coaching would that be?
are the right plays isos to him in the post? he can’t pass and gets confused on offensive sets. being fast and jumping high doesn’t mean that you can score. he is an absolutely atrocious jump shooter (whether or not he’s better than andris in that regard is irrelevant, andris doesn’t force stupid jumpers) and doesn’t have a polished enough post game to make it a good strategy to force it into him. if he’s going to score, he’s got to go get it himself. going for garbage points should be his entire offensive strategy. he should almost never be on the receiving end of a pass at this point.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Feb 2, 2009 10:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
amare al sheed and boozer are all hopeless so mab leon poe?
by nateoak10 on Feb 1, 2009 10:30 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
and the Celtics do this…..why exactly? PG is the one position where they actually DO have depth with Rondo and House with Cassel likely to play down the stretch and possibly even a Marbury pickup. Tony Allen can fill in there in a pinch too. If they dealt Powe theyd have Big Baby and nothing as their bigs off the bench. no way they do that.
"It’s a hobby of mine. Kind of like collecting your fingernail clippings or pooping in jars." -olympic mike
by sam23 on Feb 1, 2009 11:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Eddie House is a poser
He thinks hes so hard
We Believe
by RunNdGun on Feb 1, 2009 12:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
nellie would never add Powe
plays too often with his back to hoop, again the only bigs Nellie plays are slashers and shooters. How often do the warriors pass in to the block? I’d guess 5-10 a game.
by jtrosa on Feb 1, 2009 12:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
5-10 a game
who would you be passing to on the block? are biedrins’ and turiaf’s post games so silky smooth that you can’t resist the idea of letting them work with their back to the basket? i love biedrins, he’s a great player, but he’s not the kind of player you just toss the ball to and let him work. he’ll grab rebounds and putbacks and do the dirty work on the offensive end, and he’ll do it better than almost any player in the nba, but he’s just not a primary offensive option. i don’t think i need to get into the reasons that turiaf should not be a primary option either. the roster is not designed to grind it out in the post. if carlos boozer were on the team, i’d be willing to wager we’d see the ball tossed into the post more often.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Feb 2, 2009 10:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
so mab leon poe?
dialect? what hood is that?
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 1, 2009 10:32 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
cltx luv poe, n'wy we gttn'm
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Feb 1, 2009 11:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
cltx luv poe, n'wy we gttn'm
FvckCltxPoe’sHoMBy
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 1, 2009 11:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
2 f*ng bad we pickd f*ing KOSTACOAST insted... ;-(
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Feb 1, 2009 11:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
... + ahed of MILLSAP 2!!!
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Feb 1, 2009 11:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
my dream would have been to draft kosta koufous instead of AR
and kept Perovic
Kosta to Kosta, that would have been great.
We will probably need to be patient and let this season play out.
-warriorsvictim
by warriorsscore110 on Feb 2, 2009 10:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
give the guy a break. it was probably a typo for ‘nab’.
by the evil monkey on Feb 1, 2009 11:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nelson started Dampier
Look Nelson will play bigs – even mediocre ones – when they give him even a percentage of an advantage, the whole oversimplification that he only likes small ball is ignorant of his history and strategy. Wright and AR will not do that at the moment due to injury and inability respectively. We barely had enough bigs at the outset with Wright backing up Harrington, now the cupboard is bare.
Second, we all know we need bigs – so does the rest of the league. Our best chances now that we have saddled ourselves with the long expensive contracts for our veteran wings is to either groom Wright or pick up an RFA as we did Turiaf because no one is going to trade us big-for-small-with-huge contract, and no one is giving us Amare for our scraps no matter how perfect it would be for us.
The original post cited David Lee, and he will be an RFA I believe. With the Knicks’ eyes on acquiring LJ in the following off-season, if we made an aggressive enough offer for Lee this upcoming offseason – without going crazy – we might very well have the optimum PF. He would be far superior to Gooden or most of the other part-time PF’s mentioned. Would the Knicks let him go? Could we clear the cap space to pull it off? Probably not on both, as mentioned in the original post, but that’s the direction we need to be exploring. The bad news is that’s a Mullinesque move and he’ll be gone by then.
by hardcore on Feb 1, 2009 10:43 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Nelson will play bigs
But he won’t go and get them as a matter of routine. He’s been here long enough to build a big team if he wanted, hell he coulda taught Foyle some handoff plays if he didn’t like foyles ability to catch passes. Face it, Nellie is a one trick pony, he get’s off on playing from a disadvantage.
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 1, 2009 11:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i might have agreed with you before on Foyle, but not after what has happened in Orlando where they start Rashard at PF and back up Dwight w/ Battie… then Gortat… then Shard at C… then Foyle.
by the evil monkey on Feb 1, 2009 11:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
not really
if you look at the drafts of the teams coached by Nelson they select bigs more often than most teams do.
"It’s a hobby of mine. Kind of like collecting your fingernail clippings or pooping in jars." -olympic mike
by sam23 on Feb 1, 2009 11:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
teams coached by Nelson they select bigs more often than most teams
But never play them? Maybe it’s part of the character flaw? Draft a bad big so we have an excuse to suck when small ball don’t work?
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 1, 2009 2:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
nellie's a loser
and if by bigs you mean over 6’9 and less than 230#, then you are correct (it happens to a broken clock, too).
by nelliehater on Feb 2, 2009 12:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
after Nellies interview
i’ve got impression that Jamal (salary) and Beli (added value) will be traded
30 Y 197 cm 115 kg 0 IQ
by Lat We N Trash on Feb 1, 2009 11:41 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
AMARE + ODOM!
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawk on Feb 1, 2009 12:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Brandan Bass sounds good!
but I dont know
We Believe
by RunNdGun on Feb 1, 2009 12:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Couldve sworn..
we had a pretty decent if not good 4 with our 2nd round draft pick of richard hendrix…
by VII on Feb 1, 2009 5:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
when we have randolph or wright at the 4 we are perfectly fine on rebounds unless its a team like the lakers with 2 huge centers
by montadaboss on Feb 1, 2009 5:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
uhhhh......are you serious?
Wright is a terrible rebounder and Randolph makes so many bone headed mistakes it totally negates his rebounding ability.
"It’s a hobby of mine. Kind of like collecting your fingernail clippings or pooping in jars." -olympic mike
by sam23 on Feb 1, 2009 10:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
oh mos deff, mos deff
i think its pretty obvious AR’s never going to learn. Heck, he’s still making the same mistakes he made when he was a rookie!!!
by 123707THIZZ on Feb 1, 2009 11:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not saying he is a bust or that he’ll never be good, I’m just saying our lineup isnt even close to “perfectly fine” with those two at the 4 right now.
"It’s a hobby of mine. Kind of like collecting your fingernail clippings or pooping in jars." -olympic mike
by sam23 on Feb 1, 2009 11:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Paul Milsap?
Yeah, we can have him if we become UtahJazz fans
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 1, 2009 10:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
AMARE + ODOM for....
biendris + kurz (lol) + marcus williams (lol²) + crawford/jackson/maggette (pick 2 of 3)
=Gaucho=
by Gaucho! on Feb 2, 2009 8:32 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yea we need bigs
why don’t we trade with a team who has an abundance of bigs or a team that has bigs but they just don’t fit into their system. I think we should try to work something out with the Clips. The ideal person i would like to get from the Clips is Al Thornton but I know that’s pretty much impossible. As for the other guys, they have Marcus Camby, Zach Randolph, Chris Kaman, Brian Skinner, DeAndre Jordan, and Cheikh Samb. That’s hella bigs for one team. We have a guard for every day of the week! They have Eric Gordon and he’s sick as hell but he’s along side Baron (who is injured all the time) and Ricky Davis.
I’d love to get Marcus Camby, even though he’s already pretty old. I’m not so big on Kaman especially for our run and gun system. Someone mentioned a post about trading for DeAndre Jordan and I wouldn’t mind that at all simply because he takes a lot of space down low and he can grab a stupid amount of boards for us! It’s no secret, the Warriors suck at rebounding and the whole league knows it! Man, I would even try to pick up Brian Skinner, he’s a good energy player that I think can be very effective for us because his main job would be to snatch rebounds and occasionally hit a couple of jumpers. I doubt the Clips would part ways with Zeebo (Zach Randolph) but even though he’s fat, I would not hesitate to get him. Zach always had game and he would bring a lot of toughness to our front court. Cheikh Samb, that fool is weak why bother?
All i know is that we have way too many guards for one team and the Clips have way too many bigs for one team. We need a solid big and then we need to adress some of the other issues that the Warriors have. I really think we need a true point guard to run the show out here in Oakland. I have yet to see Monta at his full strength and how he responds to running the point for our team but I don’t think we should try to make him something he is not. He’s more effective at the 2 spot if you ask me. Whatever though, the Warriors suck and are gonna continue to suck for a while unless we can pull a ridiculous trade similar to the Claxton/D.Davis for Baron Davis trade or the Murphleavy sisters for Jack and Harrington trade but I don’t know if there’s anymore magic left with the Warriors to pull such moves. With Mullin on his way out and Nelson in full control it’s hard to see any bright spots in our future. This sucks!
Big ups!!... to all my haaaaterrrrrss!
by ItsDatFriscoSwag415 on Feb 2, 2009 3:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
skinner
well, he’s not a world beater or anything, but if we could get him on the cheap that would be a pretty reasonable trade to make. play him for 10ish minutes a game and grab a few extra boards. we aren’t getting an allstar this trade deadline, but we can get a role player. the real question is whether or not it’s a good call to make a trade for a role player this year. we could just as easily sacrifice a few wins for a higher draft pick. kind of like the tanking our front office has been doing for the last year, but you know, a better idea.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Feb 2, 2009 3:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I never really liked the idea of tanking..
I would like to see this team keep building each game and if there is opportunities to add something that you need to your roster by getting rid of something we don’t need I’d go for it. The draft is so hit or miss. I don’t even really put too much on the draft unless we have a really high pick and there are a lot of quality players in the draft. I kinda just hope we get lucky. At this point, we need size and soon after we need a true point guard to steer this ship. As warrior fans, we’ve seen the good, the bad and the ugly and right now we’re seeing the ugliest. A team with bad chemistry, ego’s, bad coaching, horrible front office, lies, injuries, drama, fans turning against each other, no real leader. It’s just bad, I think this may officially be rock bottom but like i always do, I stick it out and keep reppin for the Warriors but it’s hard work.
Big ups!!... to all my haaaaterrrrrss!
by ItsDatFriscoSwag415 on Feb 2, 2009 4:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
agreed
i wasn’t suggesting that we actively tank, or that if something great came along via trade we shouldn’t do it, just that if the trade offered is a short-term band-aid, you keep up the bleeding until you can get the surgery you need. we desperately need a point and a power forward. filling those positions this year with mediocre guys (like skinner) even when mediocre is a sizable upgrade, would be a bad call if it in any way hurt our chances of competing a couple years from now. i’m just not sure if we can make any trade that helps us now and later, so we will probably just have to ride it out until draft day.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Feb 2, 2009 4:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yea..
unfortunately we will just have to ride it out like you said. I’m just gonna stay tuned as usual, the Warriors always know how to keep things interesting. And if they fail, you can just read one of Tim Kawakami’s stories to keep you entertained. Lol
Big ups!!... to all my haaaaterrrrrss!
by ItsDatFriscoSwag415 on Feb 2, 2009 4:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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