I honestly think..
by GSD1 on Feb 17, 2009 2:13 PM PST
69 comments
that Amare or Bosh isn't the answer to any of the warriors prayers... Amare and Bosh are offensive mind set players. The warriors already have to much fire power. Why add a player whose gonna want to take 20+ shots a night when we already have more than half our starters throwing up that many shots anyway. Yes amare and bosh would be a huge help but its not gonna solve the case of the lack of defense and lack of rebounds the W's pull every night. Also i dont think we should give up Monta or Biedrins. Why give up players who you have locked in for years to come and trade for someone who would most likely end up leavin in a year? The warriors staff obviously sees something in these two players, they wouldnt sign them for a long extension to just trade them away.. but anyway...
I think that we should go after Ron Artest. I mean yeah hes injury prone but when hes healthy hes one of the best lock down defenders in the league, hes strong, and he can grab some rebounds. I think that Artest, Captain Jack, And Turiaf would tear it up on the defensive end of the court. Artest is also cheaper and we wouldnt have to give up the face of our franchise in Biedrins and Monta.
How do we get him? I think that we should trade Jamal Crawford straight up for Artest maybe even throw in a draft pick. With Tmac always injured the rockets are gonna need some offense on their team. The Rockets also have Shane Battier who could probably start in any other team in the league. Do you think this is a good trade, and if it is a good trade do you think the rockets would go for a trade like this?
-Golden Since Day 1
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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+1, Definitely
This is exactly the direction the Warriors should go. The Rockets need scoring and Artest has yet to fit in and will be gone by year’s end anyway. Crawford would be a scoring boost with a reasonable contract for them. I’d even be willing to send either Wright or Randolph to sweeten the deal. Artest would love it here and we could lock him up for three more years to give this group some years together.
Crawford + Wright for Artest would be ridiculous.
Starters: Belinelli, Ellis, Jackson, Artest, Biedrins
Bench: Maggette, Randolph, Turiaf, Azubuike, Morrow, Draft Pick (A defensive point guard-Holiday!)
That’s a 5 seed folks.
Duke grad student missing the Bay but holding it down for the Dubs from afar.
Houston probably picks the phone up, Morey almost chokes on his Fiji water from laughter, and politely hangs up.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
Artest
Is a pretty poor rebounder — not remotely as good as Amare or Bosh.
He’s also 29 and showing signs of decline. I’m not sure he’s an upgrade on Steven Jackson, and I’m pretty sure he’s a downgrade from Maggs or Azubuike, even if you factor in his defensive prowess. And I think he may even be coasting on a defensive reputation he earned 4-5 years ago.
I basically buy your argument that Amare’s and Bosh’s lack of interest in D could keep both out of the realm of true franchise players, but Artest right now isn’t anywhere near that realm.
Thing 1
*Stephen.
(I have my insane dick of a boss, who spells his name “Steven,” on the brain…)
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Feb 17, 2009 5:11 PM PST up reply actions
Unless you’re talking about the Rams running back.
by Fantasy Junkie on Feb 17, 2009 6:09 PM PST up reply actions
Jamal Crawford currently has negative value. If he doesn’t opt out, he’s owed $22 million over the next two years, and I don’t think there’s a single team in the league who thinks he’s worth that. We couldn’t give him away, much less move him for an interesting guy on an expiring like Artest.
We’re stuck with Jamal for at least another year, I think. It’s just not a contract that you can move in this environment.
Have you watched the Rockets?
Artest takes way too many bad shots to sit into our team of people who love to throw the rock up.
He is not a great rebounder and has a major attitude problem to go with his injury prone body. You think you are sick of Jax talking to refs, wait til Artest gets here. You wont be able to have them on the floor together because at least one will always be behind the play
about 10 years ago
Getting ronron woulda been a great move but he’s over the hill now. amare might not be the best defender in the world but he’d’ be a lot better for our team than anyone we got now. If you get a chance for an allstar it’s usually smart to take him. But I think Phoenix knows that so he’s not going anywhere?
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 17, 2009 3:12 PM PST reply actions
How is someone who hasn't even turned 30 yet over the hill?
Personally, I think you could opt to move for cap space and then try to sign Artest in free agency. You’ve got to move at least one of Jackson, Crawford, or Maggette.
Crawford can opt out after this season and he will more than likely opt out.
Let’s trade him.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 17, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions
yea
but with current economic rescession he isn’t going to be making much.
wonder if crawford wants money or playoffs
He has never been to the playoffs.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 17, 2009 4:51 PM PST up reply actions
why do you assume that?
just the hoopsworld rumor? I’m not so sure. I cant imagine him getting a better deal this summer, I hope youre right.
"It’s a hobby of mine. Kind of like collecting your fingernail clippings or pooping in jars." -olympic mike
BD opted out
So there’s hope… right?
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 18, 2009 7:31 AM PST up reply actions
Sure, lets add another chucker on this team who’s sole mentality on the court is to score. He’ll fit right in. Also, I doubt ONE player is going to change the defensive chemistry of the team. The coaches and each player need to commit to defense.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
Why add a player whose gonna want to take 20+ shots a night when we already have more than half our starters throwing up that many shots anyway.
Because unlike the guys we have currently taking the bulk of our shots, Bosh and Stoudemire tend to actually make their shots.
so....
add some offensive efficiency
and give up even more rebounding and poor interior defense…
"so much losers" - hiero
Offensive efficiency helps the rebounding deficit
You’re scoring more, and giving less opportunities for defensive rebounds. It can help your defense too, in that there are less opportunities for fast breaks by the other team.
scoring more efficiently doesn't help our defensive rebounding problem
and that is our number 1 problem right now, trading for bosh or stoudemire would only make this worse
"so much losers" - hiero
by montamazing on Feb 17, 2009 10:43 PM PST up reply actions
We have many #1 problems. We don’t score particularly efficiently (though Maggs coming off the bench has improved that greatly). We don’t rebound particularly well at either end, and we’re not dominating the turnover margin like we did a year ago. Improving in any area without a substantial decline in the others would help.
if we were to give up randolph, turiaf and biedrins in a deal for bosh
i think our interior defense would become significantly worse. mostly just for losing turiaf. biedrins is also no worse a defender than bosh. the reason bosh can’t get his team to win is becuase of his defense. offensively hes a beast, he does pretty much everything well, but defensively he is less than mediocre
"so much losers" - hiero
by montamazing on Feb 17, 2009 10:57 PM PST up reply actions
I think it goes deeper that the reason Bosh can’t get his team to win is that overall, they’re not particularly talented. He’s a very good player, but not among the elites 3 or 4 guys who can be paired with 4 scrubs and still win half their games. Teammates matter.
Turiaf, Biedrins and Randolph is too much for Bosh and unrealistic in that it leaves Bosh and Wright to play center. I’m on the fence about Biedrins in a deal for Bosh.
My thing is that,
we can hopefully find someone that can come close to replacing Turiaf in the draft or though free agency. Coming into next season we would have a skeleton roster of
Monta
Azibuike/Morrow
Jackson/Maggette
Wright
Bosh
That isnt something I would mind building around, if fact it looks pretty good to me. And yes, I left off Crawford, I pray before every Warrior game that he opts out.
We will probably need to be patient and let this season play out.
-warriorsvictim
by warriorsscore110 on Feb 18, 2009 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
The Warriors rebounding problems are all because of lazy and risky defense..
Went to the Ws Thunder game, all I saw was reaching. Every Warrior tries to reach on defense for the flashy steal. Because you reach, you’re out of position, the opponent gets the shot off, and if miss, gets the offensive board.
I’m not saying that I think subtracting Biedrins and inserting Bosh will necessarily make us better, but the argument that we have enough guys taking 20+ shots a night (actual number of such guys is presently 0 — Jax leads with a shade under 17; Bosh shoots about 16 a game) misses that the guys who are shooting so much aren’t particularly good at it.
I don’t really know about Bosh’s defense, but I’ve found that the vast number of players get criticized for playing poor or below average defense. It’s an easy charge to toss out as it’s tough to refute with anything other than a counter opinion. Toronto doesn’t seem to be at all significantly different on defense whether or not Bosh is in, so I can’t believe his defense is particularly atrocious.
if only we could give up some of those poor shooters and get bosh in return...
i would be down for that, as impossible as it is…but instead were giving up one of our most efficient scorers
"so much losers" - hiero
by montamazing on Feb 17, 2009 10:58 PM PST up reply actions
Hey now...
Jamal Crawford is only taking 11 shots a game this month and Stephen Jackson is scoring very efficiently over the last two months. It’s not all bad…
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 18, 2009 7:39 AM PST up reply actions
I do not expect either trend to hold. It’s a fortunate statistical anomaly. Guys who are high vol, low efficiency shooters almost never morph into high efficiency scorers. Depending on that sort of change to be more than a short lived nice part of a normal distribution is a recipe for failure.
Shhhh...
Monta will make everything better (clicks heels together)
Monta will make everything better (clicks heels together)
…
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 18, 2009 7:13 PM PST up reply actions
Our Current Roster
I don’t see our current roster ever making the playoffs. Everyone dogs Don Nelson for not playing Randolph and Wright, but I tend to think Nellie might have a better clue about NBA talent than any of us do. That being said, we should be asking why the hell did we draft these guys(or have Charlotte draft Wright for us). I understand both of them are still young and trying to find their NBA way, but I just do not see either of them evolving into anything more than a borderline starter. Wright to me is a borderline rotation guy for a good team. Randolph’s ceiling to me is that of a Tayshaun Prince-like player. A defensive minded 3-4 who gets his offense from others. Definitely no Chris Bosh. My take on the trade deadline is no to Amare but an immediate yes to Chris Bosh. Anytime you can add a top 10 player to your team, you pull the trigger. I would hate to see Biedrins and Turiaf (especially) go, but if we got Chris Bosh and were able to lock him up long-term, we have a franchise PF to build around for years to come. As far as Amare goes, he is not worth mortgaging the future for, I don’t think he is worth building your franchise around.
by 3xdubble on Feb 17, 2009 7:18 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
+1
i totally agree with u! i just dont see what we will do without turiaf tho…randolph at the 5? PLEASE NO KURZ
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
i do, i see them making the playoffs next year with this same exact team...
if we keep them…do you think it is just a coincidence that ever since we’ve become (mostly) healthy were starting to crush the bad teams and compete and sometime beat the good teams…
as opposed to earlier in the season, where we’d play good every 5 games and possibly get a win…no matter how bad the opposition was
"so much losers" - hiero
by montamazing on Feb 17, 2009 10:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't see the Ws making the playoffs next year
without being able to win more road games. They’re also not nearly dominant enough at home to make up for it.
No way...
Where do we go with the game on the line…Monta? Doesn’t have enough range. S-Jax? Doesn’t go by anyone. Crawford? Unproven in crunch time. Maggete? Best guy to get a shot up, but relies on officials and can’t create for others. With Bosh, there’s no question.
Heck no...
Even if you did you’d have to get lucky like with the Dallas matchup to expect anything other than a first round embarrassment. Honestly, I don’t think it’s worth it if you can’t make a run in the playoffs, which the currently constructed Warriors can’t. Too many turnovers, too careless on defense, too many bad shots. So long as Don Nelson coaches the Ws will not go anywhere near sniffing contention legitimacy.
Hope for next year
We might just have to bite the bullet for the rest of the year with one quality big (Bosh), and hope to spring for a quality big man in the offseason who compliments Bosh’s skillset.
maybe a lucky draft pick?
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
the warriors have guys that can score
but they lack star power. All the best teams have stars. we don’t.
you fail to recongize that there are teams with stars that are actually awful. for example the raptors or the nets, the heat aren't even that good...
the warriors have players that are young and have the potential to become top tier players, aka monta ellis
"so much losers" - hiero
by montamazing on Feb 17, 2009 11:01 PM PST up reply actions
How did...
the Heat do without D-Wade last year? I believe it 15-67…Now’s he’s got them in the thick of the playoff hunt, and please believe no one wants to see Wade in a playoff series…Devin Harris and Vince Carter are stars in name, they can’t carry a team….Chris Bosh has kept the Raptors competitive in the East for the last couple of seasons with guys like Calderon, Anthony Parker, KApono, and Nesterovic. A much weaker supporting cast than the current Warriors would offer…By the way, all 3 teams you mentioned have better current records than the Warriors.
yeah those other teams haven't had to deal with as many injuries have either...
"so much losers" - hiero
by montamazing on Feb 18, 2009 10:10 PM PST up reply actions
you fail to recognize
that no team that doesnt have at least one star is any good at all
"It’s a hobby of mine. Kind of like collecting your fingernail clippings or pooping in jars." -olympic mike
UM...I think Mr. Ellis is a star
once he’s at full strength (Nellie says he’s 70%) he’ll be a top 3 guard in the league.
even coming back he’s a handful. crawford can be shut down. Monta gets his – like all the best.
Slow Down
Top 3 guard in the whole NBA? Even when Monta is 100% he still has areas that need much improvement. (3point shooting, ball handling). I think if Monta can revert back to his old form and progress like he was, he has the potential to be a high 20’s, maybe even 30ppg scorer. That being said, he’s not gonna be better that CP3, D-Williams, Kobe, Tony Parker, Billups, or Brandon Roy.
D.Williams... fraud
I don’t believe the hype… he’s no where near the class of Roy, Parker, Bryant and Paul. He’s in the next tier below with Monta, Durant, Martin, etc.
A Sonics fan without a team.. Though I'm auditioning GS Warriors this season.
out of control homerism
Durant isnt a guard, but Deron Williams BELOW Monta and KMart? Really?
"It’s a hobby of mine. Kind of like collecting your fingernail clippings or pooping in jars." -olympic mike
top 3 guard?!
Kobe Bryant. Dwyane Wade. Chris Paul. So tell me, which one will Monta be better than when he’s at full strength? I’m not even gonna run down the long list of other guards that are clearly better than Monta.
"It’s a hobby of mine. Kind of like collecting your fingernail clippings or pooping in jars." -olympic mike
monta is 23, you think he's reached his ceiling, nuff said, end of discussion
"so much losers" - hiero
by montamazing on Feb 18, 2009 10:11 PM PST up reply actions
DeJuan Blair of Pitt
Did anyone see what this kid did to Hasheem Thabeet on Monday? 23 points, 22 rebounds, held Thabeet to one made field goal and 3 rebounds! Went straight into his chest every single time and DOMINATED. This is the guy we need to draft. He will be available in our draft slot.
Monta is the singular of Montus, of the Montai
He's also...
6-7, reportedly, which means he’s more likely to be 6-5 or 6-6 with a 7-3 wing span. That’s Barkeley raw number, however he’s no Barkeley. I won’t waste a lotto pick on him. He should be a late teens to mid 20 pick.
A Sonics fan without a team.. Though I'm auditioning GS Warriors this season.
“undersized rebounding PF” seems to be our target for second round draft picks. If he lasts that long, we can draft him in the second round and cut him in early December. Hey, maybe we can see if we can cut him on draft day and save time and energy getting him fitted for a uniform he’ll never wear in a game.
I was wondering how long
it would take before someone showed up saying “DeJuan Blair is EXACTLY what we need to be a contender!!!!!!” It actually took longer than I thought, and you didnt go as far with it as I thought the first person would. How perversely disappointing for me.
"It’s a hobby of mine. Kind of like collecting your fingernail clippings or pooping in jars." -olympic mike
While I agree he would help,
Artest is not the correct direction the Ws should go, a few reasons why:
- Artest is yet another isolation 3-point shooting player. While he can play the post and is certainly a good defender, if not the best defender at his position, I couldn’t stand to watch another player take one pump fake then hoist from the wing. As his career has gone on, he’s become more of a jump shooter and less of an aggressive driving player.
- Can’t help the thought that reuniting with Jack means horrible, violent things whenever the W’s go other home courts. Granted they’re both older, wiser (?), and more mature than their days in Indi- but in the back of my mind I got Artest and Jack tag-teaming some idiot Laker fan.
- Finally, Artest is just as much of an offensive minded player as Amare or Bosh, he will be looking at himself as a first option even if the team wants him to be a third option after Monta and Jack (or whomever).
Again, while I think Artest is a good fit, there are better fits out there. Artest is a great defender at the three, but it remains to be seen how good he is defending legit fours. Does anyone think Artest is the guy we want guarding the likes of Amare, Duncan, Boozer, Aldridge, Pau, and any 4 in the eastern conference. Personally, I’d like to see David Lee, Lamar Odom, or Milsap in a W’s Uni- Maybe even ’Sheed- All free agents this offseason.
Leon Powe also a free agent,
Not as marqee a name, and not as offensively skilled- but can rebound and defend. Home-town too.
I gave you a rec
after reading the first paragraph.
I want to take it back for suggesting Ron Artest. No thanks. I prefer they find a Millsap/Bass type of player to help with the defense and the rebounding.
JJ Hickson maybe. 20yo at 6’9’’ 242lbs. I think he can run with the team.
I still don’t know why they waived Hendrix.
Agreed
Pair Bosh with a Millsap or Bass and we would have a dangerous team…A little undersized, but a roster shaped for Nellie ball. Versatile guys who can score and complement each others skill sets.
Leon Powe?
Can he get up and down the floor like our guys? Not sure he would fit in for more than 10 minutes a night, although those could be a really good 10 minutes when we need the post presence at a budget price
by warriorsvictim on Feb 18, 2009 11:02 AM PST reply actions
Undersized big men are getting a lot of recognition these days. I think teams are looking for their own Carl Landry or something like that.
The Warriors should look into it at the draft.
DeJuan Blair, anyone?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 18, 2009 4:47 PM PST reply actions
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