Who would you be OK with trading and why?
by FishStix on Mar 15, 2009 1:24 PM PDT
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PrintOn a scale from 1-10, with 10 being "I'd love to get rid of them" and 1 being "must have for next season," rate our current Warriors.
As the season winds down and we finally are getting to see what this Warriors team looks like when mostly healthy, there is a lot of hope in the air. I think we can agree that even when everyone is healthy, however, there are still flaws in our lineup. IMO there are a few trades that could make us much better, most of which revolve around picking up a do-it-all PG (I'm sorry, Monta could be more if he was being dished, not dishing, the ball).
Azubuike - 4
I have always loved KAz out on the floor. He is an earnest hard worker with the muscle and guts to make some amazing plays. His 3 pt shooting this year has been phenomonal, not to mention he's still only 25 and will continue to grow. I'd prefer not to trade him away, but if it were necessary to land that all star PG I'd do it.
Belinelli - 6
Beli has shown great improvement this year. His on-court awareness and passing has been great and he's shown that he is decent at running the offensive, playing D, and shooting the 3 ball. My gripe with him is just that: he is decent at running our offense, not spactacular. While he plays D better than many other Warriors, I see him as slightly more expendable, especially if it lands us a real time PG.
Biedrins - 3
A few months ago I would have rated Beans 1 or 2. Recently, however, the team has been doing nearly as well with or without him on the court. With the blooming of our young bigs, AB's importance to the team has diminished. While Beans is the rebound machine, RT BW and AR seem to all have a better offensive game. That said, our Latvian Big is a rock on the boards and is one of the few Warriors playing decent D. Also, at 22 he can only get better.
Jamal Crawford - 10
Ok, this guy has some amazing ball handling skills and can both shoot and pass at NBA levels. The thing is though, we have guys who can shoot better, pass better, and CERTAINLY play D better. In my opinion, Crawford's main problem is that he is more afraid of contact than pretty much anyone else in the league. This means that he can't drive to the rim for shiz, nor play D in any way shape or form. Obviously he's a decent NBA player, but we have many younger guys with better contracts who fulfill the same role. Crawfish's got to go!!
Davidson - N/A
Can we even get any trade value out of this guy at all? Of course he's gonna stink, he's barely set foot on a real NBA court, I'm not saying he doesn't have some promise later down the road though. Not sure what effect he has on the team / on future trades.
Ellis - 2
Obviously there has been tons of controversy about this guy during the course of the season. I agree that the way in which he has dealt with his accident and the Warriors FO has been sloppy and in some ways disrespectful. That doesn't mean he's going to reflect that attitude on the floor. ME8 is still only 23, and it's becoming obviously that he will recover fully from his previous injury. I might be eating what the franchise is feeding me, but I do see him as the future of this franchise.
Jackson - 2.5
OK, Jackson is still a ball hog, and his contract is still rather ugly, but let's face it: he's having a career year. This is the BEST SJax there has ever been. He is racking up assists and boards to go with his consistent scoring. Every time he hangs back to talk to the refs or is not in the play do to frustration, I flinch. That said, he is the face of this franchise at the moment and isn't going anywhere (at least until his contract is up).
Rob Kurz - 1
Who would trade a basketball legend like this man!? For shame!!
Maggette - 6
Early in the season pretty much all Dubs fans wanted Maggz out of the picture. His huge contract, ball hogging, and lackluster play really hurt the team. Obviously since he became our 6th man things have changed a lot - for the better. He is a scoring MACHINE off the bench and can get the other team into foul trouble better than pretty much anyone in the league. Nonetheless, in games where he has been absent (read: Mavs) I really didn't miss him much. Are we paying too much for a flopper who do too much other than flop on the floor? If trading him could land us something nice, I'd do it real quick.
Morrow - 4
Tiny contracts on a young guy with overwhelming potential? Sounds good to me. Obviously Ammo has been disappointing since his first game of action, in which he scored 40+ points, but it was unrealistic to think he could shoot that well forever. He still does have one of the best 3pt% in the league. He is also developing in many other aspects of his game. He has shown that he can pass decently, handle decently, defend decently, and rebound decently. At 23 he will only continue to grow. That said, he could be a valuable trading tool for all of these reasons, and if he had to go for us to land a big trade, good luck to him elsewhere.
Randolph - 1
Call me a fanboy, a bandwagon rider, delusional, whatever. Randolph has been simply exhilerating to watch in the last dozen or so games. His athleticism is amazing. If he continues to grow at this rate for the next year or two, I could truly see him becoming an all-star calibur player. Not to mention, of course, that he is ONLY 19. ME8 + Rudolph + a good PG = the future, IMO.
Turiaf - 1
Ronny was, IMO, the best free agent signing of the season, for any team. His salary is more than reasonable for his ability. He can pass, shoot, play the pick n roll, dunk, and play MONSTER D. He is really our only answer to the biggest of the big guys in the NBA, he is only only real defensive presence in the paint. It feels nice having a powerful beard on the team once again. DON'T MESS WITH MOSES!!
Watson - 7
CJ has improved in leaps and bounds from last season. His contract is small, he shoots clutch shots at a high %, he can pass. He can't play D or grab boards, he's just too small. His numbers and salary might look really nice to a rebuilding team and CJ would be a nice trading piece during the offseason.
Wright - 4
WOW! Wright came back from his injury looking like he didn't miss a beat! I'd say his offensive game might be more developed than Randlophs, and he can sure pull the boards well. What Randolph has over Wright is athleticism, mainly jumping ability. IMO, Wright's ceiling appears to be a bit lower than AR's. That said, I wouldn't want to trade him, as I am eagerly anticipating the end of Nellie small ball. If he had to be traded to complete the team, I'd do it, but prefer otherwise.
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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I really don't wanna trade anyone...
I kind of got sad when will MWill was waived, but only because he was such good cheerleader.
They’re like your children, you don’t want them to grow up, (not that I would know).
Kelenna is mine...;>
"you don’t want them to grow up"
That’s something my mom would say….=p
Kelenna is mine...;>
by girltothemax on Mar 15, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Jo Koy - Laffapalooza
Jo Koy
7 minute mark on is funny as hell
If I am wrong i will respond with a D'Oh
They’re like your children, you don’t want them to grow up
Yeah you do. it will be more like: Get thru school and get the hell off my credit cards..and marry someone that can afford to buy you health insurance!!
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 15, 2009 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I would be fine if we parted with Crawford, Davidson, Kurz, Watson, or Morrow in a potential trade down the road.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Mar 15, 2009 1:40 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
FishStix
only one minor error. =) Kelenna is 25. He’ll be 26 in December (Girltothemax, I’m suprirsed you didn’t catch that with your man!)
oh no...you're right..
too excited I guess…it’s some kind of kelenna bug.
Kelenna is mine...;>
by girltothemax on Mar 15, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't trade Belinelli
This guy does a lot of good things that the team needs.
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
I agree
he has improved a lot and does many PG-esque things that we need. But IMO what we REALLY need is a PG with more potential / experience than Beli.
he's a pg in the triangle offense
a la ron harper…. ball movement, no real point guard
This guy does a lot of good things that the team needs.
We could hire another scrub to kiss Barnett.
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 15, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
No one would kiss Barnett
as passionately as Marco Belinelli.
have u seen andris?
he las om some big smooches
His numbers and salary might look really nice to a rebuilding team and CJ would be a nice trading piece during the offseason.
CJ’s a free agent, right? Is he restricted or unrestricted?
CJ is not that nice of a trading piece,
a flawed backup pg or average talent, severly undersized 2 guard(take your pick)
dont see the buyers lining for him
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Mar 16, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Not a trading piece at all. As a restricted FA with Arenas provisions limiting offers to the MLE, there’s really not a convenient way to include him in a trade. Sign-and-trade is possible, but there’s not much incentive for three parties to agree to that in his price range with teams trying to cut salary.
randolph hands down
my code name is "kelenna bahongpuki"
by VonteegoCummings on Mar 15, 2009 3:04 PM PDT reply actions
Eh
I wouldn’t rank Andris under (Over in this case) Turiaf and Randolph.
The only ones
I’d trade anyone except for Morrow and Rudolf for the right price , I don’t think they have had enough game time to know their true value so I’d hold them for one more year and see how they do.
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 15, 2009 4:08 PM PDT reply actions
wow.
Biedrins – 3
A few months ago I would have rated Beans 1 or 2. Recently, however, the team has been doing nearly as well with or without him on the court. With the blooming of our young bigs, AB’s importance to the team has diminished. While Beans is the rebound machine, RT BW and AR seem to all have a better offensive game. That said, our Latvian Big is a rock on the boards and is one of the few Warriors playing decent D. Also, at 22 he can only get better.
AB’s importance to theam has diminished? Are you joking me? He’s probably the second or third best player on the team. The only one that’s for sure better is Monta.You are stupid if you think that Biedrins isn’t important to the team.
If you read my post...
I do say that he is important to this team and a very skilled player. I also mention that he lacks sorely in offense, and that we have other very good bigs (who will only get better), so IN A RELATIVE SENSE his importance his diminished.
Don’t get me wrong, I still would hate to trade him, but IMO considering all stats (including contracts etc) it would hurt the team less to trade him for an all start PG than say Randolph or Turiaf.
like ur point but thats why bukie is more of a 2 maybe 3
his contract is like 2.9 mil…for a quality player like him, bench or starter of a 60mil cap. hes envaluable. Beans is a 2, wright and bellinelli are backwards. i like everyone else’s rating.
by IndubitableBayAreaGM on Mar 15, 2009 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I modeled my ratings off a trade for a genious PG
that’s why I have Beli as a 6 – simply because the trade I am looking for is for a PG, who would replace Beli. A PG would not replace Wright. Then again, we have Kurz and Davidson to replace Wright if we needed to trade him to get a good PG.
You just lost all credibility
when you proposed to replace Wright with Kurz or Davidson.
No, I understand the points you are trying to make,
they are just really bad points. Also, you should know if you are trying to make one points, or more than one. The “(s)” is completely unnecessary.
OK, so you’re arguing that, at this point, the dubs would be just as screwed loosing Beans as in the past? Don’t you see that Ronny and others can step it up to grab the boards? My point being that we really shouldn’t trade Beans unless we can land, let’s say, CP3 or DWade (which would never happen), but still we have others who can help with the boards and defense now, when we did not before.
Now hows THAT for a run-on?
I’m sure you’ll post again refuting this claim saying I’m an idiot, just trying to clear things up for the non-trolls.
I am clearing things up for the non-trolls,
they are obviously not going through to you.
So, let me get this straight. You want Turiaf, a PF, to play 48 minutes a game at the center position? Turiaf is a great energy player, and a very good piece for any team, but he is definitely no Biedrins. Biedrins is one of the top centers in the league.
Also, bigs are more important than smalls. Look at the past champions, and lets see who their big is, compared to their Point Guard:
2008 – Boston Celtics – Kevin Garnett/Rajon Rondo
2007- San Antonio Spurs – Tim Duncan/Tony Parker
2006 – Miami Heat – Shaquille O’ Neal/Dwayne Wade?
2005 – San Antonio Spurs – Tim Duncan/Tony Parker
2004 – Detroit Pistons – Ben Wallace/Chauncey Billups
2003 – San Antonio Spurs – Tim Duncan/??
2002 – Los Angeles Lakers – Shaquille O’Neal
2001
2000
I don’t know who was running the point in 2003 for San Antonio.
My point is, that in most cases, the big was dominant and won more than a dominant small. Not calling Andris dominant, but I’d rather have him over most point guards, except for CP3, D-Will, and Derrick Rose.
by ZaMzAm FiRe on Mar 16, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t know who was running the point in 2003 for San Antonio.
Still Tony Parker, although Speedy Claxton played some big minutes in the Finals (big enough to trick us into signing him).
And in ’02 it was Derek Fisher running point. Hey we signed him too, hmmm…
‘01 was still D Fish, but I think ’00 was Ron Harper or Brian Shaw (can’t remember).
Thing 2
lol
I understand what you’re saying, I really don’t want to trade Beans, that’s why I rated him with a 3. I don’t want Turiaf to play center all game long. All I’m saying is that now, as opposed to before the emergence of Wright and Randolph, it would be slightly more OK to trade him away IF (and only IF) we got a superstar do-it-all PG, or something of equal value.
dont u think its a little bit of a stretch
to compare beans to shaq, duncan lol. BTW rasheed would be who i’d put at detroits big over ben.
all those teams played as a TEAM
great ball movement…..and team play… not our 1 on 1 ball… which too many of our guys do.
That makes no sense.
Randolph and Wright aren’t centers. They are supposed to be better offensively than Biedrins. Turiaf isn’t as good as Biedrins, AND he’s older. He does what is asked of him, and he does it very good. He’s the only player on the team who SHOULD be playing center. Ideally, Turiaf is a power forward. I love Turiaf as much as everybody, but if I had to choose to trade Turiaf or Biedrins, I’d say Turiad without any hesitation.
By the way, the only reason Biedrins “lacks sorely” on offense is because he doesn’t get the ball as much as he should in the post. You guys remember when he averaged 23 in that Europe tournament. I’m not saying he can average 23 in the NBA, but he has the skills to be a 15-12 guy.
He's actually averaging 11.6 rebounds a game
So he needs to grab an extra .4 of a rebound a game, but that’s not really important.
For the points, a few more touches wouldn’t hurt.
This team is not good enough to have anyone untradeable, sentimental attachments notwithstanding.
by jae on Mar 15, 2009 9:31 PM PDT reply actions 6 recs
while i agree
i think we’re better off making trades that complement a group of core players that we know aren’t specifically the reason we’re “not good enough”. That core should be considered our untradeables.
For example, getting a quality pg to move monta to sg.
Not doing this means we’re in another rebuilding era.
However, I’m only willing to call certain players untradeable if they match 2 criterion. 1.) They perform and fit well within the warriors system. 2.) They’re a good value.
But give me a chance at chris paul or someone comparable, then the untradeable tag never existed.
our core players
aren’t good enough to be considered untradeable either. our team isn’t good because we don’t have a surefire superstar by any stretch of the imagination. if this team is going to start competing for titles there needs to be a player who slides monta and biedrins down to the second and third best guys on the floor. it would be nice to keep them, but if you need to include monta or biedrins in a deal that could legitimately help the team down the road, you do it. those guys are not “best player on a championship team” quality. adding a solid point guard doesn’t change that fact, unless as you mention, cp3 is that solid point guard.
our role players aren’t the only reason the team isn’t good, our stars aren’t good enough either.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Mar 16, 2009 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
No doubt about that
However, until we have a legitimate chance at securing that star, we need to keep certain players around. This is true for two reasons mainly.
First, the people I’d designate as our untradeable core (monta, andris, ar) are far from their max potential meaning we could get more trade value out of them later.
Second, teams that are willing to trade their superstar expect at least a star or impact players in return to fill that void. That’s why all those insane trade scenarios were shot down, no combination of role players is going to help us get that superstar. morrow, buike, watson, and the entire rest of our bench probably still wouldn’t be enough to get us that star. Use our “untradeables” to secure THE “untradeable”.
Now that I’m reviewing this, I find myself agreeing with you, and confusing myself by having my second point be only" trade your untradeables for a good trade". I guess to summarize my stance, I believe we should avoid trading our core, whoever that core ends up being composed of, and trade the pieces. Only if an opportunity to secure a great player in the likes of cp3 is it worth breaking them over. And as far as I see it, we don’t really have a legitimate chance at a superstar anytime soon, so as for now, our defined core, if we had one, would ideally be our untradeables.
I am not convinced we have a ‘system’ (and not convinced we ever have). Nelson’s teams maximize offensive production from the players he has but how this is accomplished is different. The limit to which he has a ‘system’ is that he does not like guys who cannot get up and down the court because they allow a defense to set up against his players.
Nellie values versatility, as it allows the team to maximize everyone else’s skills if he doesn’t have to have more than one ‘specialist’ on the court. If you look at his teams historically, his lineups are actually rather diverse and he’s found a way to play a wide, wide variety of players. I’ve seen far, far too many people say that so-and-so is pefect for the ‘system’, usually meaning that it’s a big man who camps out behind the arc and does nothing else.
We have no one who is good enough to be the centerpiece of a contender, system or no system. Success beyond being the fringe playoff team will require that a guy on the squad takes a major step forward or we acquire someone else.
Jackson NEEDS TO GO!
hes not doin a good job as a ball handler and his attitude is really horrible.
I'd be okay with trading:
Bellinelli: As much as he’s improved, I just don’t feel the chemistry. He’s been kind of a let down too…
Rob Kurz: He can shoot but he’s obviously not being put to use.
Morrow: I think he was like a one hit wonder kinda guy. He’s still young and has great potential. Good trading chip IMO.
Watson: ehh I never really warmed up to him. Lol he tries to do fastbreaks when he clearly cannot and the fact that no one’s told him to never do a fastbreak again kinda annoys me.
UNSURE:
Jamal: I like him. He has a good attitude, good character, can create shots, and when he’s hot, he’s hot.
Davidson: Okay what I’ve seen of him, he has some potential. He’s tall and big. I don’t understand WHY WE DON’T USE HIM MORE. He needs to be out there so he can get better. We’re officially out of the playoff run so why not see what happens. But I’m not gonna QQ over him being gone.
Ellis: Okay. I’m really bipolar aobut him. After tonight, I can see he’s starting to get back to his old self. But his attitude seems to have changed for the worse and I’m not digging that. I would prefer not to trade him but if we can get someone amazing in return, I say go for it.
Don’t trade:
Buike: Maybe I’m biased cause I’ve been in love with him since he came here (those gorge arms) but he’s solid. He can shoot and even when he’s not shooting well, he makes up for it somewhere else, with defense and rebounds.
Biedrins: Yeah uh no not trading him. I don’t feel the need to justify this.
Jackson: As much as I yell “JACKSON YOU F***ING IDIOT WHAT THE F***” to the TV, I like him and he’s been doing well with the Warriors. Yeah he needs to work on complaining and the technicals. However, he’s worked hard with improving on assists and rebounds along with his shooting. he’s put on muscle weight to be stronger. It’s pretty clear to me that he works hard.
Maggs: I was one of those people who were like …trade him wtf. but since he’s been coming off the bench, he’s been pretty damn good. He’s a great 6th man and I think we need to keep him. He goes to the basket and gets the foul calls. And in addition, he MAKES his free throws.
AR: I hated how he made stupid mistakes so often. Some were just reallyso stupid. But he’s been so much better about those and he’s been a FREAKING BEAST the last few games. Untouchable IMO. He’s gonna be AMAZING.
Turiaf: Number one cheerleader and a blocking BEAST. I can’t count how many times I’ve yelled “DENIED” to the other team cause of Ronny. I loved him even on the Lakers and I was so happy to get him on the W’s. He works hard and is a leader and a team player. He so deserves being a captain and deserves to stay on this team. He’s even been working on grabbing boards.
Wright: I also had bad feelings towards him because we traded JRich for him and he kinda sucked at first. But he’s pretty beastly now and I like him and he works hard. Keep him.
I love Kelenna David Azubuike! <333
by goldenstatelove on Mar 15, 2009 11:35 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
just so we're clear
you’re willing to trade Marco, Kurz, Morrow & Watson.
What, pray tell, do you expect to get in return?
by hardcore on Mar 15, 2009 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
might get us a 2nd round pick…..so we can select someone else he’d be willing to trade this time next year.
Thing A
Well I think
basically she means that the team is fine as is and if you wanna get rid of money, get rid of those ppl lol.
dont be an asshole dangg.
LOL
Okay true you got me. My post doesn’t make too much sense. And I’m too attatched to a lot of these players. But you can also count my “unsure” people too I guess.
I also wanna see what happens with the chunk of this team cause I like it, but there were so many changes this year that the team didn’t have a lot of time to mold together and create chemistry. And now we need Monta to blend with the team.
I love Kelenna David Azubuike! <333
by goldenstatelove on Mar 16, 2009 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions
this year that the team didn’t have a lot of time to mold together and create chemistry.
Mold can be destructive too.
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 16, 2009 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
ur forgetting the 'unsures'
unsure meaning that only IF the trade was very good for both teams would those players be traded away
by FishStix on Mar 16, 2009 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Crawford, Davidson, & Ellis
if you’re unsure about trading the first two, what does that say?
as for trading Ellis, that would take some guts but is not out of the question either – see the post to the right …
does anyone feel like trading jack for nothing...
would make us better long term. the cap space alone. Hes TOs make me grey. And his favoritism towards certain players and not others is really starting to annoy me (notice he never passes to biedrins bellinelli)
another point somewhat left out of the OP
(mainly because its wildly unrealistic)
I’d even trade those I rated 1 for someone like CP3, Wade, LeBron, Kobe. I’d package Jackson/Monta + Turiaf/Beans + Morrow/Beli/CJ + any of our newbs for those guys.
fwiw if he came to GSW I’d stop supporting the dubs
I think we could live with that.
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 16, 2009 10:07 AM PDT reply actions
How is Biedrins a top center?
Don’t get me wrong, I like Biedrins a lot, but look at the facts:
1. Biedrins is skinny
2. He has absolutely no shot outside of like 8 feet
3. He is not a great defender
He is a good rebounder, but most centers in this league are, and his numbers are probably slightly inflated because of how bad of a rebounding team the dubs are.
Also, I know Jim Barnett is always talking about what “great hands” Biedrins has, but I feel like I pretty consistently see him dropping/fumbling passes under the hoop. Like vs. the Mavs the other day he lost one off his leg under the basket and then couldn’t handle what looked to be a pretty good Ellis pass a few minutes later under the basket. This was only over like a 6 minute period too.
Biedrins seems to be at his best when he is running the pick and roll and getting dunks/layups, but couldn’t someone like Randolph/Turiaf do this just as well? Lastly, although I’ve made this point before, Biedrins has absolutely no shot and is a pretty horrible foul shooter. If he were dominant inside (like shaq was last night) I would be ok with that, but he is not.
by randolphforpresident on Mar 16, 2009 4:25 PM PDT reply actions
Outside of Dwight Howard and Yao, find me three better centers.
Shaq, Duncan, Bynum?
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 16, 2009 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions
u forgot...
jefferson, okur,possibly nene, brook lopez will be better…. marc gasol has more skill although not a fit for our system and of course the vanilla gorilla, joel pryzbilla.
biedrins is a very solid center but hes no world beater, he’ll be an efficient center… if hi defense improves he’ll move up a teir, but he cant shoot has 0 back to post game, and i dont expect that to change. That being said… if he gives me rebounds and defense and his passing continues to evolve, thats good enough, if hes surrounded w/ enough talent
Okur no.
Lopez no. Nene no. Marc no. Pryzbilla hell no. Duncan is a PF. Ideally, Jefferson is also a PF. So you got Shaq (whose probably gone in a little bit), and Bynum.
by ZaMzAm FiRe on Mar 16, 2009 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions
duncan plays center. this year, jefferson is also playing center. you could argue that isn’t jefferson’s ideal position, but he still plays it better than biedrins (albeit with worse defense. much worse, that guy can’t guard my couch). lopez might be better down the road, but biedrins still has the edge for now.
he’s clearly worse than howard, duncan, yao, shaq and jefferson. you could possibly include bynum on that list too, but i’d want to see him play a healthy season before i’d make that call. the rest are guys that are pretty similar to biedrins in terms of production, i think you could make the case that biedrins is the best of the rest though.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
bynum is miles ahead of andris
if bynum was in golden state he’d average high teens and double digit boards. IN LA he splits rotiation w/ pau and odom along w/ shots w/ kobe. Minus his injury concerns I’d take him over any center in nba if i started a franchise w/ a center. Unfortunately he is injury prone giving howard the edge… but in skills- bynum has more, offensively. he’s a good defender who will only get better and can rebound
that’s crazy. dwight howard plays center. are you telling me you’d take bynum over him? and i think you’re overvaluing the inflation of numbers playing for the warriors. i agree that when healthy he’s better, but he’s never healthy. that was the point i was making there. i’ll take biedrins on the court over bynum on the bench.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
sorry, i just can’t get over the bynum better than howard when healthy statement. not trying to be mean, but i don’t see a single aspect of the game that bynum has the edge, even if he was physically incapable of being injured, i’d take howard over him. whether bynum is more “skilled” or not, he’s less productive offensively, and he’s a much worse defender and rebounder. i just don’t see how you can say that he’s better than howard.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Go check the MPG.
Also, every player splits shots with someone else. Bynum also has a great power forward to box out the other teams power forward to get the boards also. Odom’s time has very little to do with Bynum’s time because Odom plays the PF, not the center. And WOW at saying Dwight Howard isn’t as good as Bynum. Dwight is the best center in the NBA, and is the most dominant player in the NBA as well. Howard is better offensively as well as defensively. You act like Howard has already hit his prime, but look at his age compared to Bynums, 23 and 21 respectively. Howard has not even hit the peak of his game yet, and he’s already one of the top 5 players in the NBA.
So back to AB and AB.
Biedrins
Age – 22
MPG – 30
PPG – 12.4
RPG – 11.5
BPG – 1.5
Bynum
Age – 21
MPG – 29
PPG – 14
RPG – 8.2
BPG – 1.9
I’ll take those 3 rebounds over 1.6 points and .4 rebounds any day. The Golden State inflation isn’t that much that he’d get crazy stats if he was over here.
Duncan is a forward.
He started his career at forward, and he would probably benefit from having a center on the team. He is definitely more than capable at playing center, but he is a forward.
he started his career as a forward, but that isn’t the position he’s best suited for. he anchors the low block, doesn’t really roam from there much on offense except to set screens and guards the opposing center. the guy is a natural center.
that said, the distinction between center and power forward is blurry at best, it just seems to me that duncan is your prototypical center.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Yeah. I'd say that he can play both positions
equally great.
Forgot to add
his position really just depends on who he is surrounded by. He had David Robinson before, so he played PF, now he has nobody to play center and Matt Bonner at PF, so he plays center.
exactly
whichever post player has more of a perimeter game (or just whichever is smaller if there’s no good distinction to be made) gets called the power forward. the positions are remarkably similar
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
The position designation is in many, many ways artificial, but if the job of the center is to be the team’s biggest guy, man the middle and take on the tough chore of defending the lane, Duncan is a center. It’s two accidents of history much more than his actual play that has Duncan listed as forward.
Duncan started his career listed as a forward because the Spurs had Robinson at the time and only one of them was going to be listed as a center. They played together, neither being entirely the ‘back to the basket’ center that some seem to think exists nor were either entirely ‘face the basket’ power forwards. They did what they did and dominated. As Robinson faded out, he played less and less and Duncan had more and more time as the ‘center’. When Robinson retired, the Spurs brought in a series of “centers” who would be in the opening lineup, but didn’t really make a position designation between ‘forward’ and ‘center’ any clearer. Duncan played many, many minutes without these guys too. When a team with a top center came to town, it was Duncan who matched up with Shaq and company, not Nesterovic or Francisco Elson or whatever guy got penciled into the lineup as the “C”.
The NBA had further reason to continue to push for Duncan as the PF as well. He was an acknowledged ‘star’ (rightly so) and as a PF, he’d be a shoe-in starter for the ‘All Star NBA hype-a-thon’ er, uh, ‘All-Star Game’, something that wouldn’t happen with Shaq in LA and both of them competing for the center slot.
If Robinson wasn’t on the Spurs, Duncan would have been listed as a C from day one. If Shaq hadn’t been in the west, I suspect at some point Duncan would have been listed as a center. The argument that he’s not a center has far more to do with some artificial designation than anything concrete.
okur is an all star
and putting up nearly 20/10 a game. His rebounds went up w/ boozer out. Nene is a much better defender physical presense.
lets compare brook (age 20, 4/1/88) to biedrins in 06-07 season when he was identical age (birthdate 4/2/86)
andris- 9.6 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 59.9 fg, 51.1 ft, 1.7 bpg,
brook- 12.7 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 53 fg, 82.7 ft, 1.9 bpg
and this is brooks first year. He will be better than andris.
LOOK: I’m not saying Andris is bad, but he’s limited. He is what he is. All names i listed have much better upside. All of them have also rebounded well on the warriors.
I see that one stat is missing.
Go show me the MPG.
Also,
Okur just lurks the three-point line on offense. He has no inside game.
PS
You really need to work on your grammar.
He is a good rebounder, but most centers in this league are,
Biedrins is a good rebounder for a center. Few centers pull down as many boards as he does. Most centers fumble more passes. Most centers do not convert those inside shots, dunks, putbacks as efficiently as he does. Most fumble far, far, FAR more passes. Taking a 6 minunte stretch and extrapolating that this is indicative of some intrinsic property of Biedrins is foolish.
The ‘inflated numbers’ argument gets posted time and time again. Dreadfully little evidence exists that rebound numbers can be significantly ‘inflated’ in the manner you’re blankly speculating about. If the lack of rebounders inflates his numbers, strangely, it has not had the slightest effect of augmenting Turiaf’s rebounds when he replaces Biedrins. Turiaf is pretty much identical in his rebounding when he replaces Biedrins to what he was in LA when he was often in the lineup with another real bigman (Gasol or Bynum) or a forward who is an above average rebounder (Odom).
blankly speculating
are you joking me? you are arguing that a center playing with 4 guards isn’t GENERALLY going to have better rebounding numbers than a center playing with a legit power forward who can hit the glass? this defies logic.
by randolphforpresident on Mar 17, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m arguing that you’re speculating, that you’ve done nothing at all to try to actually figure out how different his rebound numbers would be with a different lineup configuration. I’m arguing that the extent of what you did was say that it’s “inflated” (how much? What would it be in a ‘normal’ lineup?) because the extent of your analysis was to say that it’s inflated. Reality is that rebound rates are remarkably consistent for players, that lineup configuration has far, far, less to do with it than you seem to be suggesting. This ain’t about ‘logic’ hombre. It’s about actual analysis of the data. Very often what people call ‘logic’ is not actually logic, ut their notions of how things should be and what they will cling to in spite of any actual evidence contrary.
I’m impressed with how completely you seemed to ignore that Turiaf seems to have no similar “inflation”. How, in your infinite appreciation of ‘logic’ do you explain this?
by jae on Mar 17, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Turiaf seems to have no similar "inflation". How, in your infinite appreciation of ‘logic’ do you explain this?
Maybe it’s not Rony’s “thing”?
I know that playing with good rebounders makes my numbers go down, if I know my homeboy has that rebound covered I don’t go mess with him, but if all I see is the other team I give it a try.
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 17, 2009 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Sssshh , it's an under the table thing
I pay enough taxes with adding my basketball winnings
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 17, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with most of what you said FishStix...
…except about Jamal. I think that we are a better team with him. I understand the criticism against him perfectly, but in the “Warriors as pure entertainment” category, who else can put up 50 a night?
If we were to keep Jamal...
I’d play him very differently than Nellie. I’d have him come off the bench and play a few minutes. If it was obvious that he was hot, I’d keep him in as long as he was hot. As soon as he cools down, yank him for someone who can defend / play consistently. IMO he would be a much better asset to a team in real playoff contention, because if he had an off day no one would mind, but he could win playoff games if he were to go into beast mode. On the Warriors, when he plays 44 minutes, he is just a liability on defense, doesn’t pass better than CJ SJax or Marco, and a ball chucker, with the occasional game in which he enters beast mode.
Oh yeah, and 4ptplayLOL
If we were to keep Jamal, I’d play him much differently, as in almost never, as in only against opposing point guards who can neither shoot nor pass nor dribble, such that they aren’t a threat to light him up all night long.
So pretty much against Sebastian Telefair,
and sit him every game not against Minnesota?
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Mar 17, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't really care
As long as we still have Anthony Randolph.
by Precise Films Productions on Mar 16, 2009 7:14 PM PDT reply actions
hahaha
People are now on the Anthony Randolph bandwagon. I remember a month or two ago when everyone wanted to trade Randolph.
that's because he sucked two months ago, but is now easily a hall of famer!
I mean, isn’t it obvious?
Not me.
I’ve been a fan of A’dolph the German ever since he was born.
by Precise Films Productions on Mar 16, 2009 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions
In all seriousness.
I was really high on this kid ever since he got drafted. Even in college he showed his versatility and athleticism, I kept raving on and on about him and got super excited once I saw him come in the game against the Bucks during preseason. Every time he stepped onto the court I got pumped up. I kind of lost my excitement for him once I saw Anthony Morrow score 37 in his first start; after that game, Morrow was the guy who got me pumped up to see every time he stepped on the court.
But then eventually Morrow cooled down, and I started focusing on Randolph’s performances again.
by Precise Films Productions on Mar 16, 2009 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions
he has all the tools to be a star
its a question of work ethic and desire. I think he has it, but what do i know. If he has the KG drive, theres no reason he cant be a similar player…. whether he’ll be as good, is alot to ask. but he does remind me of KG when he was a rookie
Everyone?
There are a whole lot of people who have been Randolph bandwagoners since he was drafted and some writer talked about how ‘versatile’ and ‘skilled’ he was.
He is playing much, much better than he started out playing. I didn’t care if we traded him then and don’t care if we trade him now, so long as we get value. His play recently has made me rethink significantly what I’d take in trade though. Asking price should be much higher.
I say
trade the bust for some good value and keep my boi AR around. I could see him putting him up 19-9 with 4 assists and 2 blocks in 3 yrs.
by warriorfan4life on Mar 16, 2009 9:31 PM PDT reply actions
Who's the bust?
Also, you know Randolph? Get him to do a Q&A on here ASAP!
by ZaMzAm FiRe on Mar 16, 2009 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions
from a bust in the draft to a bust in the hall of fame. the gsom reaction to anthony randolph story.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I'm not calling AR a bust.
But he says AR is his boy.
wasn’t trying to say that you called him a bust, just commenting on the range of randolph reactions in the past few months around here.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I'm calling Wright a bust.
That fool is never going to pan out. pf my ass…
by warriorfan4life on Mar 19, 2009 4:02 AM PDT up reply actions
He did give you the minutes...
He said he thinks it will take him three years worth to accumulate those numbers right? I think it would take way less but like maybe 40 minutes or so. =P
Thing 2
TURIAF the only untouchable
I’m not saying they should blow up the whole team – I really like some of the players: Jack, Buike, Biedrins, Belli, Monta, Maggs, Randolph.
However, we need a true 1 and a true 4 and to get anything of quality for either of those positions we’ve got to give something up. we go 2 and 3 deep at the the SG and SF, so everyone is available for the right price.
Turiaf is gold. Not the best player on the team. But he is the best role player in the NBA.
How many championships have 'great' role players one?
Last year Boston won with 3 superstars and average(at best) role players.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Mar 17, 2009 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
What's all this "true" garbage
Hving a true whatever doesn’t matter. If you have good players with normal height for their positions, you win. It doesn
t matter if he is a true ______.
AR is a 3
according to Nelli – though I agree he seems more like a 4.
really, his length allows him to play the 4, but his bulk gets him pushed around on the block – and he doesn’t look like he’s going to “fill out”.
btw…where did all the Big 4’s in the league go? Remember when there was Karl Malone, Shawn Kemp, Wayman Tisdale, Antoine Carr…guys who were 6’10"/250+ and owned the paint?
Seems like the PF are really bulked up 3’s or long lean guys (Bosh, Gasol).
Where’s the big guys?!?!?
The role player value
The reason he’s untouchable as a role player, btw, is that he’s PERFECT for what the Warriors ask of him and are paying him for.
Who in the league for 4 mill a year would play 20-25 a game and be the defensive stopper that he is?
He’s not so good that he’ll bring an all-star back. and he’s so much better for the team than a a matching salary in a bigger deal.
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