So, does Monta suck or is he awesome?
by Dubs fan in Boston on Mar 18, 2009 7:08 AM PDT
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PrintWas his ankle sore or was he visiting his sick mom?
He came back from the injury and was not himself. He was not scoring efficiently and not really doing much of anything good. Then he had a two week hiatus and came back. Nelson said, from the beginning, that he was resting his ankle, and somewhere along the line the FO said he was also visiting his mom. Monta came back at the end to say "No, I was visiting my sick mom, ankle's fine."
I suspect that his ankle was a little sore, but wouldn't have really kept him out of the game. Being a professional athlete, he thinks he's invincible. "What's a little dull pain to me, the super athlete? HAHAHAH, I laugh at dull pain, I'm indestructible!"
Whatever was the catalyst and whatever was the side effect, the rest seems to have done him some good, as he appears to be close to old Monta. Winning and peak performance cure all rifts, and that seems to be where we're headed. As freerandolph has pointed out, the Warriors have a winning record with Monta in the lineup (10-7 right now). Monta has been playing quite well since he's been back, a few more good games and he might get to the 60% plateau again (He's at 56% right now). It's still too early to tell, and he could easily just be on a hot streak against lazy/crappy defenders (BD is known to get lazy, and Steve Nash is a picnic), but he's showing more than flashes, he's put together whole games. So, what's your take?
Personally, I'm of the opinion that he's still awesome, he was just a combination of rusty and not 100% when he came back in Jan. I also think that he had a sore ankle and he wanted to see his mom, so everybody was happy with him going home and taking a rest for a week or two.
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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well if we beat la
then monta is awesome..
if we lose then… monta is mediocre.
Well put
I kinda figured that I’d get more votes one way after a win and the other way after a loss. I’ll ask again in a few weeks after a loss.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Mar 18, 2009 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions
wins don't count against the clippers
duh
**WE DESERVE**
"They can trade me," Bonds said. "I don't think they will, though. It's not like I want to be traded, man. I'm a Giant. I'm stuck here till the end."
thats messed
show some class like ClippersSteve
We Believe
by RunNdGun on Mar 18, 2009 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL... so far... 0 votes for sucking
Beyond Golden State of Design... and than some!
http://www.tonypsd.blogspot.com/
Kinda expected, what with his WW deserving performance last night
Though I’m sure Shells will show up eventually to change that ;-)
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Mar 18, 2009 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions
so weird
ur a monta hater and a u like CJ
i like monta and hate cj
why do you like bad players? monta has proven he has all star capabilities….cj has proven he sucks.
monta, andris, randolph are our future…and its looking VERY bright if we can get a solid PG in the draft
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
I am not a Monta hater
though I do like CJ. But I like them all. Equality for all…somewhere some how. Monta wasn’t playing when I first liked the Warriors. I heard this and that. And about how “great” he is. He has to prove that to me. Tough love, I suppose. Nor did I not stick up for him on certain occasions. If I really hate him, I certainly wouldn’t do that.
Besides, maybe I’m weird like that…I like people that work hard. And majority of the Warriors, well that’s just that: hard workers.
Monta too. Monta has been working hard on his jumpers…I’ll credit him that.
ive never in my life seen you not in a good mood, i am lookin foward to you flippin out someday
20, im uh grown folk now!
i shall take that as a compliment
then again, you never meet me in your life. Speaking of 20, the legal age to be an adult is 21, my dear friend. And then it goes downhill from there…
And then it goes downhill from there…
No actually it gets better and better cause one learns more if they are payin attention thru the years
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 18, 2009 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions
not when
(let’s bust a baumerworld…or a wanna-be)
1. you have to pay bills (but for some reason, I actually love playing bills. It makes me feel very adultish.)
2. wrinkles
3. you can’t eat everything any more (how can one survive without good food?)
4. the Warrior roster gets younger and younger
5. you start to forget things (even your own age!)
6. people start to take you seriously
7. you’ll have to wait forever until your 401K/pension plans cash out. (your chances of dying is higher than the cash out)
8. you can get fat(ter) and ulgy(ier)
9. if you date younger men, you’re considered a cougar. if you date an older woman, you’re considered a gold digger. bad rep?
10. sickness starts to take over…
so, what was was typing about again? this age thing is really getting to me…
so, what was was typing about again?
re-read #5
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 19, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Its not only that we won.
Monta’s nunbers were better then BD’s and that showed me something. Even after a loss if he’s still putting up quality numbers I don’t see many “sucking” votes. (Except for the trolls of corse).
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
Well... yes
If he’s performing then, by definition, he’s not sucking. But there are going to be more people who think he sucks if we lose than if we win.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Mar 18, 2009 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Hence the troll factor.
He can’t win it on his own.
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
then why dont more people think maggs sucks
b/c he does suck…and he loses a lot…numbers != good.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
That...
made no sense to me. Please try to put it into whole sentences so that my small brain can understand what you’re trying to say.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Mar 18, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions
alot had to do w/ support cast
and dunleavey’s dumb system
He's improving as ap laymaker....
and thats all you can ask for at this point. I think in the right system w/ right supporting cast he can play pg
Very refreshing!
Im glad we were able to see Monta playing the role of his former self. When he’s aggressive, he’s a force to be reckoned with. The points didn’t shock me. What got my attention was his willingness to play within the flow of the game. Loved the oops to Randolph. Here’s to hoping his cp3 impersonations turn into a key cog towards his game. Keep it comin Monta!
Bring back Chris Gatling! Support Live Music! www.myspace.com/feelosophy101
Unfortunately Monta is virtually only as good as his last game.
While the team is juggling over which path to take concerning the whole debacle, the only thing Monta can do now, is simply play. MT II put it perfectly. Many of you have been saying in recent posts that the majority of the fans on the website are too fickle to make solid points. But in all fairness, I really think you have to track Monta’s progress game by game when your dealing with a situation that requires immediate action. It’s obvious Rowell is hesitant for putting his arm around Ellis’ shoulder and promising good times because everybody is dubious and fickle over his performances, which serve as our only measuring tool for marking his recovery before what should be a very busy off-season(Mullin out).
In other words, if he’s playing at the same speed next season that he is right now, (which I think is ridiculous to consider) and Rowell already cemented the contract long term and all is “forgotten”, the team’s in a lot of trouble. From this, I think we draw an obvious conclusion to trade him this off-season. So should being overly-critical of Monta’s game by game performances in such a small window of time be labeled as being fickle? I can empathize and understand the fickle fan. Regularly, I would think these types as optimistic fans who don’t know much about the NBA. Having no clue where the bar is set in the reality of the game, they are frequently dissatisfied in the outcome of unexpected losses. But right now, it’s a little different.
There’s also the issue regarding Wright/Randolph. Are they too thin to co-exist and rebound effectively with Biedrins on our team? Will we be physical enough? While my opinion is irrelevant, I believe that we in fact can have Randolph and Wright playing on the same team with AB, and have success. Come contract time, we will see if Randolph has developed enough ball skills to make the transition to small forward. Until then, it would be wise to hold onto this promising front court who amount to less than 6 mil, and see if we may truly reap the benefits of the infamous Jason Richardson trade. I see no reason in trading a good player in Wright, who surely appears to be improving steadily, or in a Randolph, who possesses not only star talent, but the attitude to propel it.
If Rowell is smart, he would be focused on making Monta happy RIGHT NOW. In other words, lie. Tell Monta everything is alright, and offer him the world. It will only keep him focused, which should translate to better play, which then would allow his stock to complete to it’s fullest potential by the season’s end. Then during the off-season, coming into training camp, you’ve got the story in the papers about a young, focused, Ellis coming back full throttle and ready for a huge season. Obviously he’s going to tell everyone he’s twice the player he was even before the injury, and Nelson will relay the message as well. NOW is the time to make a trade if it will be so.
My point is, it’s not about Monta sucks, or he’s the same player, or he’s going to come back next year and be great, because nobody can begin to know. BUT, you can try to manipulate the situation the best to your advantage(being the front office) regarding the potential outcome. The key is to make Monta happy and 100% focused. The only way to do this, is to kiss that opt-out option goodbye, rally up every peanut passer to top dog in the franchise and have a formal we love Monta convention for the media to grub on. Immediate ammends. Give Fitz the green light for his sickening brown nosing abilities and just stand aside.
I think it would be false to say at this point, that Monta and his contract are non negotiable, because the truth is is that he has shown progress with his condition, most recently against the Clippers. There were flashes of the old. Rowell seems like a man who takes things very personally and holds grudges. Going by this judgment, I would bet Monta is gone before the 09-10 campaign begins. And if the Warriors are settled on moving Ellis, love it or hate it, they need to do it sooner than later. Personally, I don’t advocate a trade for Monta, and I’d like him to be a Warrior. He’s come back from a big injury that took him out of the lottery. He will come back from this and be a star. Unfortunately I think everything Rowell touches turns into shit.
by Travis Bickle on Mar 18, 2009 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
That was pretty damn nice. He had some brutally bad moments on defense, but that’s vintage Monta too, for better or worse.
The most promising thing about Monta’s night last night wasn’t his scoring — it was his playmaking. We were missing our two other big playmakers last night, and got only spot minutes from Marco and CJ. The offense still flowed extremely well, and it primarily flowed through Monta. He’s never gonna be a 10-assist guy, but he played an effective scoring-point style. It felt a lot like a good Tony Parker game.
It was one rested home game against a terrible team, so it’s nothing to get too excited about. But in the quest to find out whether Monta can serve as our 1, last night was a positive data point.
He played a very good game. His bread and butter is still getting to the rim for the high percentage shot, but he was making several jumpers out around the top of the key (where he could either start a drive, pass or shoot) and seemed to just have a bit more jump in the jumper. Yeah, it was the Clippers, but those shots are ones he can get against anyone and being able to succeed at a key ‘decision point’ on the court is a plus. It’s better than having one option that an opponent can key on (the drive) and two that you’ll blow all by yourself (a missed jumper or a bad pass), which is where he seemed to be a few weeks ago.
Randolph hit a few jumpers as well. It was a nice look and if he can do that consistently, it will keep defenses honest if they try to muscle him inside.
If Randolph can start hitting jumpers...
If you take a look at the ESPN recap, you’ve got a prime example for what I’m looking for. Granted, he was being guarded by Zach Randolph, but if he’s being guarded by a prototypical PF, he can probably get a 15 foot jumper any time because they’ll have to respect his ability to drive by them. I’m looking forward to seeing whether he keeps improving over the next year.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Mar 18, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
He's 19
So he better improve! Bwright is developing a nice jumper too, so the two can compete for the best one!
If it goes in, no one should care. But when the shot isn’t hitting the mark (as it was before his recent hiatus), you can start to look for reasons why. If he didn’t have full strength in his legs, he would have to use his arms more to get the shot off and that tends to mess with the accuracy.
If he didn’t have full strength in his legs, he would have to use his arms more to get the shot off and that tends to mess with the accuracy.
I think if that were true guys would shoot freethrows with a jumpshot. A think a set shot is more accurate , the jump is just necessary to get over the defense. Players get used to the jump so they can’t shoot without it , but if they practice they could shoot better without all the extra motion of a jump. Check out that guy in the wheelchair in the top post, his stable seat increases his accuracy.
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 18, 2009 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Free throws are close enough that you can do it pretty easily with your arms
And there’s no defender. I used to shoot free throws with a jump and I was OK. I’m much more consistent with no jump now that I’ve switched. When you don’t have your legs under you, you’re not taking a consistent jump or at least you’re not taking your normal jump, which means you have to compensate by changing your arm motion. It all just adds up to more ways to fail, which means more missed shots.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Mar 19, 2009 6:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Set shots can be more accurate, but they’re pretty much worthless if there’s a defender rushing at you ready to block.
Plus...
It’s not like you don’t use your legs when you take a set shot. Just because you don’t get off the ground much doesn’t mean having good leg/ankle strength makes a huge difference.
I remember a few years ago I had a severe sprain of my right ankle. It totally effected my free throw shooting. In fact it felt like my free throws came back slower than my jump shot (weird huh?). Set shooting does not equal legless shooting.
So to sum up, Skeptic is full of it again. =P
Thing 2
by olympicmike on Mar 19, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Skeptic is full of it
WHAT!?!?!?! STOP THE PRESSES!!! THIS DESERVES ALL CAPS!!! OMG SKEPTIC IS FULL OF IT!!!
:-P
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Mar 19, 2009 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Set shooting does not equal legless shooting.
Did you look at that wheelchair guy? He shoots a lot better than a lot of the warriors without using his legs.
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 19, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Did you look at that wheelchair guy?
Yeah he would pick up the ball and roll five feet towards the basket before shooting. I’m not sure how it equates to steps but that’s got to be a travel. = {o
Thing 2
Yeah he would pick up the ball and roll five feet towards the basket
Yeah, the ol’ pick-and-roll is nothing if not effective…
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Mar 19, 2009 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions
And I suspect that he’d have a tough time keeping his shot from getting blocked. Look, the anecdote that someone in a wheelchair has found a way to shoot accurately isn’t an indication that in general, legs aren’t important to shooting the ball. If you’ve normally got spring in your legs and it’s gone, you’re going to have to work harder with your arms to get the same distance and arc on the ball. If that’s not how you’ve practiced for years, odds of it being as effective aren’t good. I find it rather peculiar that you’re fighting so hard to suggest otherwise.
If that’s not how you’ve practiced for years, odds of it being as effective aren’t good. I find it rather peculiar that you’re fighting so hard to suggest otherwise.
Sometimes it’s interesting to look at something from a new angle. Like Rick Barry was always one of the top freethrow shooters but why doesn’t anyone else use the underhand shot? or why guys don’t practice more set shots so they have a more accurate shot when not being guarded( or if their legs are not 100%) ?
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 19, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree, he looks to be using more arms than we're used to seeing from him...
It seems like Monta isn’t over-elevating on his jumpshot like he used to, which is actually a bad thing I think. He really didn’t start hitting that mid-range jumper consistently last year until he began jumping absurdly high and sorta one-handing it – he was getting up so high so quickly that the left hand seemed pretty superfluous. This year, his form is more “technically” correct (whatever that’s worth) but he obviously hasn’t been as accurate. I’m not sure how devastating that ankle injury is gonna prove in the long run but hopefully next year he’ll be back to 100% and can rediscover that ugly, effective jumper – because let’s face it, his entire game, at this point in his development, hinges on it.
Mechanics aside
Monta’s FG% seems to be regressing to the mean furiously. After a rusty start (to be expected, given the length of the layoff and severity of the injury) he’s been deadeye.
Jan (5 games) .369
Feb (8 games) .414
Mar (6 games) .577
Basically, since his last “family-related” hiatus, he’s been shooting even better than last season. Haven’t broken down those fgs into jumpers and layups/dunks, but anecdotally, he’s been shooting the mid-range J at least as much as last season; and anecdotally, his form and mechanics on it seem just as natural, if not more so, than they did last season. He also seems to have added a bit of a depth — where before outside about 16-17 feet you’d cover your eyes, now he look pretty comfy out to about 19-20.
The jumper is the least of my worries right now. If his entire game hinges on anything, it’s his defense, court vision, and passing, which have looked as mediocre as ever since his return.
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Mar 22, 2009 6:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Like I said, his mechanics look better this year, but the results have been all over the place. Recently he has been shooting well, but until I see him shoot 50% from the field for an extended period of time (as in last season) I’m going to stick to my theory and hope he goes back to his ugly shot. Don’t get me wrong, there’s always the possibility that last year was a fluke and that shooting style a flash in the pan. But if it ain’t broke (yet) why fix it? It’ll be interesting to see how this new jumper fares over the course of an entire season – at which point we can more accurately access its effectiveness in comparison to his prior jumper.
As for those 19-20 foot shots, those are notoriously the worst shots in basketball (unless you’re Kobe). Step back 3 feet and make it a 3 or step in and make it a higher percentage shot. Obviously the 3 isn’t really an option for Monta at this stage in his development, but when he gets fully healthy guys are going to have to sag off him so much he won’t need to take those 19-20 footers – and in which case, his old shooting style may help with his touch on those short jumpers.
Also, I’m sticking to my statement that his game hinges on his jumper. Without the threat of his jumper his athleticism isn’t nearly as devastating in half court sets. I don’t think Monta will ever be a good one-on-one defender – he simply doesn’t have the instincts. He may develop court vision and passing ability, but those would be supplementary skills, not the basis of his game. Monta is a scorer plain and simple. That’s where his instincts lie and his skill set lends itself to that end. There are worse fates.
can i get a “he’s awesome and i don’t care at all who was lying as long as he produces on the court” option?
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Mar 18, 2009 10:20 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Just pick one
It doesn’t matter at all who was lying in the first place.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Mar 18, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
I choose to vote for
“Holy crap Monta is looking awesome, good god he’s fast again! Defense? Who needs D when you can finish at the hole with the best of em and knock down mid range shots like layups? BTW he’s running the offense now when he’s on the court which is what we’ve been missing all year. Moped Ellis is in the past, Ellis to Randoplph fast breaks are the future!”
by VERY VERY BUSY on Mar 18, 2009 10:41 AM PDT reply actions
that's a long @$$ option haha
They can't stop me!!
by ItsDatFriscoSwag84 on Mar 18, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe
Brandon Jennings. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
Looking at the Clips roster
makes me realize what a horrible coach Dunleavy must be. They’ve got a good squad, at least offensively speaking, and with Camby in the middle they can afford to play some shitty perimeter defenders. I really don’t get why they are so bad. I guess it is Dunleavy’s insistence on playing a half-court game with a squad that should be We Believin up and down the court. Oh and Kaman is a pig too.
Monta is the singular of Montus, of the Montai
They've had injury problems
And they’re old. Camby, Randolph, and Kaman have all missed significant time. And they’re all on the downslope of their careers. Randolph & Kaman do not belong anywhere near a “We Believin up and down the court” team, and they’re pretty central to their talent. Dunleavy certainly isn’t inspiring Baron, but he’s not the only problem down there.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Mar 18, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
He's about to turn 27
So I wouldn’t say “pretty young”, but it was unfair to say “downslope” either.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Mar 19, 2009 6:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Kaman's pretty young buddy?
Eric Gordon??
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 19, 2009 7:41 AM PDT up reply actions
You know..
looking at the Clips last night, I thought the same thing. A starting roster of Baron, Gordon, Thornton, Camby and Kaman with Zeebo (Zach Randolph) coming off the pine, isn’t a bad squad IMO. They also got shooters (Novak, Ricky Davis) and reserve bigs (Jordan,Skinner) but I think that one of their biggest problems is not having an identity. What kind of team are they really? They’re not a running team, they’re not a great bang it down low team (although they do try to score a lot down there with Kaman and Zeebo). They’re not really a perimeter team although on some given nights they can really hurt you with the long ball but they’re not primarily an outside team. I think what they struggle with aside from Mike Dunleavy’s whack system is there balance. There is no identity and real leadership on this team. Plus like Dubs Fan in Boston was referring to, is all true. A lot of these players are on the decline and there seems to be a lack of motivation from the players. They just don’t see Dunleavy’s vision and look as if they don’t really care any more.
They can't stop me!!
by ItsDatFriscoSwag84 on Mar 18, 2009 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
having been to a few clippers games
and seeing the complete and utter lack of fans, I believe the clippers feel that they’re playing for nobody. Sure they can form an identity among themselves as a team, but they’re not playing out there for anybody or representing anything. A franchise with a great deal of history will by nature hold its current squads to a higher standard. The clippers can fail to make the playoffs year after year without consequence. If the lakers don’t make the playoffs, the city will revolt. I think most players in clipperland end up so disillusioned with the nba and the sport of basketball once they get there that they feel no more important than a d-league team that gets the opportunity to play against an nba team. Honestly. And of course, it has to do with management and coaching, such as not using a player like baron to the best of his abilities by forcing set plays on nearly every possession.
No motivation from the fans, the tradition, and quitting on your coach = a consistently crappy team.
There is no identity and real leadership ...
… maybe they were hoping Baron would be helping in that category?
I figured he would be the leader..
but instead he’s shown how unmotivated he can be if he’s not on a good team. It sucks too because he was planning on playing with Brand but we all know what happened there. Baron being traded virtually destroyed 2 teams.
We don't make it rain mayne! We stack that bundle..Frisco n*ggaz don't lack no hustle!
by ItsDatFriscoSwag84 on Mar 18, 2009 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions
maybe even 3
it looked like it when Brand first joined Philly, but I think they’re back on track now.
We don't make it rain mayne! We stack that bundle..Frisco n*ggaz don't lack no hustle!
by ItsDatFriscoSwag84 on Mar 18, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I think they’re back on track now.
Yeah, because Brand is out for the season and they are back to running. I’m so glad we didn’t sign him or Arenas.
I swear Rowell had his head up his own ass offering those crazy deals.
Point takin about Randolph and Camby
but with Baron, Gordon, Thornton, they should get out and run. They had like 5 fastbreak points last night against a team (dubs) that doesn’t get back on defense even after made baskets. Kaman being central to their offense might be the biggest problem.
Monta is the singular of Montus, of the Montai
none of their pieces fit very well together. Theres talent, but its probably the worst fitting roster in the league. Baron actually doesnt fit all that well with Gordon-at first glance it looks like it should work like Baron/Monta did but both guys need the ball in their hands a whole lot. I’m not big on Thornton, he seems like he bolsters his overall stats by throwing up good numbers in totally meaningless situations and he’s the bad kind of tweener forward who isnt really skilled enough on the perimeter to be a 3 or play big enough to be a 4. He doesnt shoot or rebound well, he looks like he’s not much more than an incredible athlete without a position. Z-Bo and Kaman can be ok bigs, but Z-Bo is another guy who needs the offense to run through him and both guys leave the team very vulnerable to teams that have anything resembling an athletic frontcourt player. I like Camby a lot, I’m afraid he’s gonna waste his last few effective years in Clipperland being forced to play a role that doesnt suit him. The rumored trade to San Antonio that never went down wouldve been amazing for him and the Spurs. DeAndre Jordan looked better than I expected him to in limited minutes earlier in the year but he’s buried on the bench when theyre healthy. The guy I actually kinda like on their roster (besides Camby and Gordon) is Novak. He’s really the only guy on their whole roster who scores efficiently from the perimeter. He’s a pretty bad rebounder for a guy his size, but I think he’ll be a solid role player for quite a while. They are a mess though with the Z-Bo/Baron/Kaman contracts being even worse than our Jackson/Maggette situation.
Thing A
you made some good points about Thornton.
I, for one, am pretty high on this guy. I think he has the talent to be one of the best players in the league if he put his mind to it. Granted, I’ve only seen him a number of times. I don’t get to watch him throughout the course of the whole season so I can’t make a full judgement on him but from what I have seen has been good. I think if he were motivated enough, he can be up there with the elite because of his build, power, athleticism, ball handling ability and knack for getting into the lane. I understand that playing for the Clippers has to effect your motivation because it’s like fighting an uphill battle all the time. The franchise is probably the leagues worst, not only in this season but for the past decade or so.
Last night, I was at the game with my brother and my brother asked me, When Baron bolted if I had a choice between Maggette or Thornton on who we could sign from the Clips, who would I take? My response was automatically for Thornton because he would fit our system real well IMO. Plus, he was younger and has a higher ceiling than Corey because Corey is aready a veteran and you alread y know what you’re going to get from him every night. I personally would like to take the gamble and work with Thornton. My brother argued that Maggette would be a much better pick because of his driving ability and mid range shot. I obviously thought different but I did see his points. But I think, in the right system, on the right team, with te right coach and motivation, Al Thornton could be a superior athlete that would be getting a lot more publicity. Instead, he’s on a sorry franchise like the Clips and you rarely hear his name mentioned.
They can't stop me!!
by ItsDatFriscoSwag84 on Mar 18, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
dunleavey
doesnt like to run. Which makes sense because they signed Baron…. ::rolls eyes::
Its about time...but also attitude....
I believe someone may have had a word with him?
Most of us accepted he will not be the true Monta until maybe the start of next year.(providing no more silly playing with mopeds, not dirt bikes BTW).
It is clear he is getting the confidence back to do certain moves, but also I believe he is getting his BBall IQ back and I am damn sure he is learning a great deal in practice watching, playing against and seeing how Jamal Crawford plays the point. Ellis is even throwing a few more crossovers into his game.
All of the above I expected…..however his attitude was the thing that IMHO needed a giant kick in the ass. How that was delievered or how he should receive that was open for debate. But I believe I saw a slight change in his attitude last night that was pleasing to see.
Now…..that might just have been because Crawford was sat on the bench??? (little bit of happy kid syndrome) and so he really gave it everything last night to prove a point. (no pun intended).
I have always believed that with the right “mentor”, Monta could be VERY good, IF the ankle was able to come back to full fitness and I think we saw last night signs that he does indeed have the potential to become even better than before the accident.
I am still incredibly pissed off at him for his prior actions and poor character dealing with it, but if his attitude and game game proves to be totally focussed to the Warriors, then he has my support for what thats worth.
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Mar 18, 2009 12:13 PM PDT reply actions
I think your perception of his "attitude problem" is what really needed to change
But maybe that’s just me.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Mar 18, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
MAYBE
this attitude problem u speak of was him being hard on himself….maybe he was angry he wasnt playing the way he wanted…maybe now hes doing things that he wants to do rather than being hindered by not playing so many games and being at 70%….
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Spare me the crap both of you....
The pair of you continue to throw out every excuse about this kid and his behaviour. I really couldnt give two stuffs what you think Dubs Fan in Boston, my personal opinion which if you bothered your arse to read again, is what I clearly stated it is, is that he has a bad attitude and needs mentoring. If therefore you dont think my opinion is of any matter to you, then save yourself the typing by telling me as as such for the above reason.
Jamal Crawford = Example of how to conduct yourself as a professional athlete. Monta…not so much. he can get there but he needs personal coaching.
Losthawk….the fact that you have clearly shown your inability to see fault with anything he has done, makes your point of no relevance to me in the slightest. You are far from impartial.
I gave praise where praise was due, but still it seems it’s not enough for some.
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Mar 19, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
he alright
He not really himself yet until he is fully healthy.
by warriorfan4life on Mar 18, 2009 12:49 PM PDT reply actions
AWESOME!!!!!!!
Seriously though, I was worried about Monta making a full recovery. These last few games have made me feel a lot better about our future. Now that he is paying more like his old self I think the rest of the game will start to open up for him. As the defense has to really key in on him it should be easier for him to start finding guys for open jumpers or dumping it off to a big man at the rim as the defense collapses.
Thing 2
It’s pretty obvious that Monta was telling a white lie. If you paid attention, you could see him grabbing and stretching out his ankle on the bench sometimes when he came back from the injury.
I suspect Monta was just saying that to persuade the Warriors front office that it’s not a lingering, career-threatening injury. Don Nelson was probably telling the truth, but not doing a very good job of protecting our superstar from power-hungry contract-voiding CC and RR.
Eye witness evidence!!
Woohoo! I’m not so sure RR & CC are as evil as you seem to think. They’re just trying to avoid a Darius Miles situation or something. They wouldn’t void his contract over some lingering soreness, which I’m sure is 100% normal for an injury of that magnitude. I’m sure they’re still in “wait & see” mode though.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Mar 18, 2009 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
stretching etc
is part of rehab…if you have a major injury on ANYTHING you will probably have to stretch it etc a lot more than other stuff for many years…doesnt mean he was telling a lie…
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
So, does Monta suck or is he awesome?
Neither, he’s just about what he was last year, a very good 2 guard with size and defensive shotcomings. Doesn’t have the mindset to be a point guard, and will probably always do something to disappoint whatever team he’s on, sorta a dumbed down version of Iverson without the handles and charisma .
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 18, 2009 2:57 PM PDT reply actions
He will only dissapoint if there is too much expected of him
If a team uses his great skill at getting to the basket and his high midrange jumper shooting percentage, while making the best of his weakness at the defensive end, I don’t see why he would disappoint anyone. I’ve not been disappointed by him this year.
by freerandolph on Mar 18, 2009 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions
I dont know that he’s destined to disappoint us, but you don’t think he’s been disappointing THIS year? Really?
Thing A
Bad off court judgment which disabled him to be on-court
is very disappointing. The fact that he’s back on the court gaining confidence is a good sign. There was that play on D where he made Gordon travel that had me thinking about how old he is. I think Bob and Jim were talking about Gordon’s upside which brought me back to remember how old Monta is and how much upside this kid really has. I feel there is a lot of untapped potential in his game and playing the point is only going to take him to new heights.
Bring back Chris Gatling! Support Live Music! www.myspace.com/feelosophy101
by WarriorNation on Mar 18, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I feel there is a lot of untapped potential in his game and playing the point is only going to take him to new heights.
Well that will increase the chances that he disappoints then. Ever hear of using the right tool for the job? Sure one could drive nails with an axe but why not get a real hammer?
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 18, 2009 4:04 PM PDT reply actions
I hear you
but he’s stil the developmental stage in his career. Currently, he’s a scoring guard that needs to be piggybacked by a bigger guard to make up for his shortcomings on D. He needs the ball in his hands and with his speed and knack for getting to the lane, developing point guard skills is whats going to get him to that superstar level. Im also thinking in terms of what it’ll take for this team to be a force in the west sooner rather than later. At this point, I feel keeping him at the 2 and trying to find a point is going to hurt more than it helps.
Bring back Chris Gatling! Support Live Music! www.myspace.com/feelosophy101
by WarriorNation on Mar 18, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I dont know about ALL our problems
but I could at least get excited to watch
Monta/Rubio/CJ
Jackson/Monta/Morrow
Buike/Maggette
Randolph/Wright
Biedrins/Turiaf
Especially if we can use Marco to pawn Crawford off on someone
Thing A
nooo
long run looks so much better:
rubio
ellis
randolph
wright
andris
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
randolph is a crappy small forward. at best he ends up with a decent perimeter game for a pf. he doesn’t pass, shoot, or dribble particularly well. why play to his weaknesses?
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
why play to his weaknesses?
Because on draft day, expert/prognosticators said that he ‘projected’ as a SF in the pros and Nellie (whose word should be taken with enough salt to service a McDonald’s for a week) echoed the same thing. They said he had the ‘skills’ of a 3. Said, heard, believed with no recognition that he’s not really had success accomplishing any of those things that the skills need to lead to.
at 19 he hasnt accomplished a lot
hes got a lot of development time ahead of him, and he could become a solid 3 imo
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
If he's going to be successful in the NBA and especially in Nellie's rotation
He’s going to have to play PF, using his meager “3 skills” to create a mismatch against more wide-bodied 4s. Defend the post well enough, grab rebounds, but then use his dribble threat to get easy open shots and/or drive by the slow footed big man. He’s not going to be a 3.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Mar 19, 2009 6:46 AM PDT up reply actions
i like
how you can predict a players potential better than nellie and all the professionals that saw him in the draft….
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
The "professionals" are watching hundreds of players
And making quick commentary to make players sound interesting. See JAE’s comment on Nellie. It is 100% true.
Nellie also echoed that before seeing him play much. Now that he’s been playing, what position has he been playing? What position is he more successful with?
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Mar 19, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions
i can’t remember the last time a “professional” said anything about randolph’s ability to play the 3. who is saying that? predraft i heard a lot about how he was forced to play center sometimes, which was a bad situation for everyone involved, but i really can’t remember anyone saying he projected to be a good small forward. i think hollinger thought his numbers taken in a vacuum implied that he might be a better 3, but hollinger thought he’d be absolutely terrible at either pf or sf. honestly, if you could tell me who is/was saying that randolph was a future small forward, i’d appreciate it.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
but I could at least get excited to watch
Monta/Rubio/CJ
Jackson/Monta/Morrow
Buike/Maggette
Randolph/Wright
Biedrins/Turiaf
I’d love to watch that team. I really don’t know how good Rubio is going to be but from what I’ve seen he looks pretty good and from what I read a lot of people are really impressed. I think he would be the perfect addition to our backcourt. He has good size and from what I read he’s a very good defender too. Some defense in the backcourt would be a nice change (no offense Marco, at least you are trying).
Thing 2
not to mention he always knows what to do with the ball in his hands.
That kind of understanding of the game at 18 is amazing. I think it helped playing in the euroleague since 14. I saw an article in the Washington Post about the Wizards FO thinking about selling their draft pick (likely top 3) along with one of Mike James or Etan Thomas to get under the salary cap. If it is not in the top 2, Rubio is unlikely available, but would it be possible to trade: Wizards #3 and our #6-8 pick to move up to either 1 or 2?
You guys think CC and RR would go slightly over the cap for one year next year to get Rubio?
before we all say that this injury is behind us...
i’m really glad to see monta’s still able to get to the rim and is gaining his speed back. and i’d also love to believe that his hiatus was due to his mom’s illness rather than ankle soreness. What if it isn’t though, and his ankle really is giving him problems and he’s just choosing to play through it. i want to see him play 36 minutes a game without missing a game for the rest of the season before i’m ready to say that his ankle isn’t a problem and the old monta is back.
admittedly, based on recent performance monta is indeed awesome. in my opinion though, even though he’s exciting to watch and certainly has that star potential, i want to see him focus less on impressing us with his scoring ability. We all know he can score, as can 100 guys in the league. it would be preferable for me to see him put more effort into the strides that are going to make him a better all around player and confirm his superstar status. for instance, he didn’t grab a single board the phoenix game after pulling down ten vs. dallas. i’d also like to see him demonstrate a little more vision when he drives towards the rim. When he pulls out the crossover or makes a run towards the basket i’m sure he’s going to put it up. It would be nice to see him draw that pressure and kick it out to someone for the three, considering how loaded the warriors roster is with guys who can reliably make that shot provided they’re open.
His game is more or less identical to last year’s, and i certainly wasn’t saying that he was already a star last year. Of course he’s just rusty, and of course he needs time to adjust, but that’s why i’m holding off on saying monta is awesome for now.
What if it isn’t though, and his ankle really is giving him problems and he’s just choosing to play through it
See, that’s the thing. I think that he was playing through it in Jan/Feb, and he wanted to keep playing through it. I’m sure the training staff didn’t want him playing through it.
We all know he can score, as can 100 guys in the league.
Show me 100 guys who can score at will and do it at 55% shooting. You can’t. Lots of guys can score, but not many can score like Monta.
he didn’t grab a single board the phoenix game after pulling down ten vs. dallas
That’s an average of 5, which isn’t shabby for a PG. Against Phoenix, somebody had to try to get back to mitigate the fast break. If Monta was playing PG guarding Nash, that was his job. Not crashing the boards going for a 10% rebound.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Mar 19, 2009 6:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Show me 100 guys who can score at will
Show me one guy who can score at will? I can’t recall any 100% shooters??
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 19, 2009 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I think Jordan could score at will.
When it came down to the fourth quarter at crunch time, I don’t think their was a player that could stop him when he made up his mind to score.
That is why Jordan was and is the best. Kobe comparison is no comparison.
maybe not 100 guys who shoot 55, actually definitely not, but at the same time I feel like this 55 value maybe a little inflated. It’s early to tell, but I’d like to see a full season with regular minutes at whatever position he ends up on before i’m willing to declare him a 55% shooter. For one reason, when he became a prolific last year, he was still under the radar and defenses wouldn’t collapse on him as regularly giving him more opportunities to score. Furthermore, we’re only looking at his percentages over a small time frame, making it an unrealistic average. Lastly, we have to factor in that “new” monta’s playing may be and probably will be different than “old” monta due to various reasons such as position, injury, and improving and changing his playing style. For instance, if he really became the quintessential playmaker i except to see his shooting percentage go down. This would be because as the designated playmaker he would have to create many of his own shots and shoot off the dribble, much like nash, an example of what i hope monta can be, someone who can still accomplish it efficiently.
And while an average of 5 boards isn’t bad, it is bad if you’re getting ten one night and 0 the next. That statistic would lead me to believe he doesn’t try to get rebounds, and the ten were probably a fluke. If you’re trying to grab boards, most likely you’ll get at least one. But this is where my low basketball IQ shows through. You mentioned his role wasn’t to guard nash. Does this actually mean he was explicitly told not to go for rebounds? If so, then my point is null.
And who knows he still might be playing through his ankle. My main point is i’d like to give him a little more time before making a blanket judgement like “he’s awesome” during that time i’d like to see just how much he’s capable of contributing in all areas, especially the ones where he can use marked improvements, like assists.
If you're getting killed in transition
A standard reaction would be to tell your guards to get back on defense and not go for offensive rebounds. If you’re getting back on defense and 30+ feet away from the basket, you get no offensive rebounds. Likewise, if you’re trying to counteract that with your own fast break, you might be sending your guards out to try to make fast breaks. Who knows. He’s certainly not a 10RPG guy, nor is he a 0RPG guy. They’re both anomalies. Monta averaged 5RPG last year, he shot 53% over the whole year… he’s pretty much shown that he’s an effective and efficient scorer and a capable rebounder.
We’ll see if he can keep it up for the rest of the season and into next, but he’s got a whole season of 53% shooting as evidence that he can score efficiently. I see no evidence to suggest that he won’t be able to keep that up. He’s still kicking off the rust, yet he’s got his midrange jumper back and is driving to the basket just as well. The issue is going to be “can he transition to playmaker and learn to find the open man”, and that’s going to take some time. He’s got to learn his teammates tendencies, and vice versa. The issue is not going to be whether or not he can rebound or score effectively. He rebounds better than most guards and he scores more effectively (combination of efficient and prolific) than almost all of them. He’s definitely awesome, the question is can he become “super awesome”.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Mar 19, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
In the media’s eyes, superstar status comes with scoring a ton of points. This isn’t synonymous with doing the best for your team’s ability to win, but it is what gets the biggest paychecks and most of the accolades. Scoring legends with so-so commitment to defense and lousy shot selection get named to all-time great lists and walk away with max contracts. You can virtually ignore defense and win MVPs. “Well rounded” guys who don’t score 20+ ppg don’t regularly get max contracts.
exactly
and i’m fine with monta not being known as a superstar. which is why I truly believe that monta should take these remaining games, especially since now is the time to experiment, and the offseason to see what he’s capable of in the other stat columns. He has the speed, energy, and athleticism to accomplish a lot more than scoring 20+. It’s not unfeasible for him be a top defender and average close to 3 steals a game considering his speed. And seeing him beginning to involve his team heavily would be a welcomed positive as well. While scoring a ton of points might be what gets you the accolades, getting wins does that just as efficiently. I don’t think paul pierce was happy on a losing celtics squad a few years ago nor was he getting the recognition and respect he gets regularly now.
While scoring a ton of points might be what gets you the accolades, getting wins does that just as efficiently.
Does it? There’s only one championship team each year and a few contenders. There are far more players who get labeled as ‘stars’ despite relatively poor team performance. Winning can gain fame too, but it doesn’t get the financial rewards as readily and it doesn’t seem to be as efficient a means to achieve the star status.
Winning can greatly over value a player,
Randy Brown, Malik Rose, Damon Jones, and recently James Posey(he is better than the rest) got a reputation of being smart, savvy, winners and turned that into big contracts.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Mar 21, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
… and BJ Armstrong… and Derek Fisher…
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Mar 21, 2009 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Not a Warrior but...
Robert Horry extended his career by a few years with his winning reputation. I think teams thought he was a good luck charm or something.
Thing 2
by olympicmike on Mar 21, 2009 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Good point. It does seem like there’s a premium on guys who are ‘winners’ even if they were more or less just along for the ride. Perhaps it’s not as pronounced as the premium put on someone who just puts points on the board, but yeah, all those guys seem to have been paid more than they should because they were in the right place at the right time.
those guys seem to have been paid more than they should because they were in the right place at the right time.
and maybe they get more cause they’ve seen what it takes to win so they won’t likely do much to hurt a team? Fisher for example had winning experience with the lakers and worked pretty well as backup to Boom and woulda probably helped our playoff team if he was still around in 07, his experience showed last year when he suckered Montay into a game losing foul.
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 21, 2009 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions
… and vastly outplayed by Monta in almost every respect for the other 2,000 or so minutes of the season.
Meanwhile, his oldness, slowness, and overratedness showed in the finals when he got repeatedly abused and beaten to every loose ball and rebound by Rajon Rondo. An underrated x-factor in the Cs’ victory, I think…
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Mar 21, 2009 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions
An underrated x-factor in the Cs’ victory, I think…
could be, I never watch the playoff if the warriors aren’t in them. I rarely watch any basketball other than the Dub’s
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 21, 2009 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Monta lied about his ankle for legal reasons
like, he doesn’t want to give the front office any ammunition for voiding his contract. So he can NEVER say that his ankle is sore. I think Monta is returning to his form last season.
If he continues his hot offense, teams will start double teaming him again. I think that started last season right around the Celtics game here at home. If he can learn to pass to the open man on the double teams, like Tony Parker, then he will raise his game from awesome to WOWOWOWOW. I mean, all Monta has to do is run by Morrow and suck Morrow’s man into Monta, and then kick it back to Morrow for an open three. That’s similar to Tony Parker to Bruce Bowen, except Morrow can shoot the three from anywhere.
Yeah i think nextyear Monta will be really good because he will probably be 100%
and have had a whole summer to get better again. I think Monta in his prime can average about 20 to 25 points with 5 rebounds and 6 to 8 assists with 2 steals while still shooting around 50%. And if he can average close to that that’s all you can ask for in him as our PG which is very good. The key is for Monta to be Happy and Focused and also never get back on a Moped
well see
if montas the real deal if he can do the same against the lakers tonight.
Who remembers Sam Mack and Gerald Madkins?
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