NBA Draft SuperThread
by ejdacanay on Apr 13, 2009 12:30 PM PDT
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PrintOk guys I think I'll be creating a Draft superthread to outline those who have declared, those will stay, what should we do, and list possible targets.
NBA Lottery Date:
May 19th, 2009
ESPN
Time: TBD [Program is 30 Minutes Long]
2009 NBA Draft:
June 25, 2009
ESPN
4 p.m.-9 p.m. PST
Final Lottery Standings and Chances to win #1 Pick.
1. Kings (16-64) -- 25 percent chance to win
2t. Wizards (19-61) -- 19.9 percent
2t.. Clippers (19-61) -- 15.6 percent
4. Thunder (22-58) -- 11.9 percent
5. Grizzlies (23-57) -- 8.8 percent
6. Timberwolves (24-56) -- 6.3 percent
7. Warriors (29-51) -- 4.3 percent
8. Knickerbockers (31-50) -- 2.8 percent
9. Raptors (31-49) -- 1.7 percent
10t. Nets/Bucks (33-47) -- 1.1 percent/.8 percent
Our Percentages at winning the #2 or the #3 pick with a 7th placed lottery finish:
2nd Pick: 4.9%
3rd Pick: 5.8%
Players who have declared:
(Name FormerTeam Grade/Birthdate Position Height Weight Agent?)
Our Projected Pre-Off-Season 2010 Starting Lineup:
PG: None (Crawford/Watson)
SG: Monta Ellis
SF: Stephen Jackson
PF: Anthony Randolph
C: Andris Biedrins
6th Man: Corey Maggette
Why the Warriors should draft a PG:
If there's a position we are thin at it will be at the PG position. We are lacking Pass First or Court Vision while we have a more than adequate amount of scoring PG's.
Our PG's: Ellis, Morrow, Watson, Crawford
Why the Warriors should draft a SG or SF:
My personal opinion is that we are OK at these positions especially at the 2, but we need a 2 or 3 who can defend man to man and possibly shoot the long ball. We can also go 2 or 3 if management's draft strategy is to go BPA (Best Player Available).
Our 2's: Ellis, Morrow, Crawford, Belinelli, Jackson, Maggette, Azubuike
Our 3's: Jackson, Maggette, Azubuike, Randolph [Possible]
Why the Warriors should draft a PF:
I also personally think we are fit in the future at PF, a combo of Wright and Randolph may set us for years IF we keep them. Regardless, if we win the lotto for the #1 we pick Griffin if we lose and go BPA we may pick another PF (Which I doubt).
Our 4's: Randolph, Kurz, Davidson, Wright, Turiaf, (All 3's if we play small)
Why the Warriors should draft a C:
The Warriors should draft a Center, but not as a starter, but a backup. This years draft is incredibly weak at the Center spot with only 2 1st round talents in Thabeet and Mullens. You do not draft a backup at #7, but once again if we go BPA and Thabeet is available at our slot not at #1 then he may be the pick.
Our 5's: Biedrins, Turiaf, Randolph, (All 4's if we play small)
Why the Warriors should Trade The Pick:
The Warriors should trade down if at our slot there is no perfect candidate to pick with (Mainly a non-top 3 pick). A trade down to the mid-later 1st would give us many specialists to pick and some pre-season high rated prospects such as Mullens, Teague, Aminu, Lawson, Collison. We can also trade for current NBA players who management target.
Thread will be updated periodically along with adding my current draft board and adding declarations as we go.
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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From DraftExpress: Rubio!
“NBA Draft Roundup, April 13
April 13, 2009
Back on the DraftExpress 2009 mock draft, after a four month stint where he was projected for 2010. Sources close to the situation indicate that Rubio’s family is now in favor of him entering this year, and that will almost certainly be on the early-entry list when it’s released on April 27th. His buyout still needs to be negotiated, which is easier said than done, but a final decision on whether to stay in likely won’t come until very close to the pull-out deadline, on June 19th. Unlike college players who are bound by the more restrictive NCAA rules, International players can enter the draft up to three times, which gives him plenty of wiggle room.”
I’m not sure what this means but our 4.9% looks a lot more exciting now.
Ricky Rubio
I really like this kid’s game. I think he would be PERFECT for the Warriors, especially to pair up with Monta, who’s defensive deficiencies have been well documented. He has a 6’4" frame that I think will fill up, great ball handling, and amazing court vision and passing. Not only that but his defense is amazing. I think he would be our best perimeter defender if we are lucky enough to pick him up.
Recently I’ve been seeing a lot of trade talk regarding BW, but I think Wright has got a lot of potential as a Pick and Roll player with a legit PG. He’s got the mobility, athleticism, hands, and length to be really special in the pick and roll. Remember how many easy buckets Andris used to get with BD in the P n’ R? And I don’t even consider BD a “pass first” PG. If we picked up Rubio, I think that BW would benefit the most from having a PG with such amazing court vision.
Rubio = Steve Nash – Jumpshot (he can develop that) + defense
DRAFT A PG!!!
Ricky Rubio mix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSBLKrZCkeU
Golden State Warriors: D-less like a Warrior Girl
Like Lightning, the opposing team takes the path of least resistance to the rim... right past CJ Watson
I'm on board.
Just for fun, what happens if we get the #1 pick? Do we still pick Rubio? Or go with the surer bet in Griffin? Or pick Griffin and trade down for Rubio?
Sigh. I guess we’ll cross that bridge when we (don’t) get to it… ;-(
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 13, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
What a great problem to have...
Or pick Griffin and trade down for Rubio?
That’s not a bad idea. It’s obviously a bit early to think about something like this, but I’d definitely consider trading down a spot for Rubio if we could pick up a nice piece in the process, or dump a bad contract or get a future pick or two.
If Rubio is everything he is talked up to be (especially defensively) he would be a great match with Monta.
Thing 2
He is that good defensively...
Check out that youtube link. How many people can say that they ripped Chris Paul off the dribble?
Golden State Warriors: D-less like a Warrior Girl
Like Lightning, the opposing team takes the path of least resistance to the rim... right past CJ Watson
Yeah...
I watched him in the Olympics like most people and he looked really good. I’m pretty much sold on him, my point was that he is more of a mystery than most top 2 picks are to the average NBA fan. At this point the hype surrounding him has gotten so big, especially concerning his defense, that I’m curious to see how he will look playing in the NBA against NBA players with the NBA rules. There aren’t many rookies that come into the NBA and can shut down the opposing player from the get-go. I’m optimistic that he will be something special, I’m just anxious to watch him a bit before handing him the defensive player of the year award.
Thing 2
fun thought
but on a more realistic level: Would you deal Belinelli, Wright and the #7 for the #2 pick? I definitely would, but I’m not as optimistic about either of those young guys as most of GSoM, and I’m also probably higher on Rubio than most. Which of the teams ahead of us are likely to accept that offer? My initial thought is that the PG needy Wizards, T’Wolves and Kings would say no, but the rest would at least listen. The idea of Rubio, Monta, Randolph and Biedrins filling out 4/5 of the starting lineup for the next decade makes me drool even if it means the 5th spot is gonna be manned by a two headed awful contract monster for the next 4 years.
Thing A
would you deal Belinelli, Wright and the #7 for the #2 pick?
Is the bear Catholic?
Yeah. I make that trade if Rubio’s on the board. If he’s staying overseas, that changes the equation perhaps. The other guys are all question-marks. I like Wright, but I do not think he’s long for this team. He has a marginal “could regret trading him chance” but it’s worth it. Belinelli has shown he can play in the NBA. I do not see him having much trade-regret potential.
Thats a trade we have to make,
If Rubio is guaranteed, I might even consider tossing a future protected lottery pick. If only we didnt make that Marcus Williams deal.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 13, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/lottery2009/mockdraft
I think the Clipshow might actually take that offer.
If we make that trade we absoloutely need to deal Crawford somehow for another PF. Or if Crawford opts out (please!!!) we can turn around and spend his $20mil on one.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
If Crawford opts out, we do not really clear that much space under the cap. It does not provide us with $20mil in spending room. His salary isn’t subtracted from the cap floor, but from the total team salary. We’ll have about the same amount to offer a FA as we would with the MLE.
In a heartbeat
…the thing is I did kind of what to see what B. Wright could do with a true PG in the pick and roll. But we’ll still have Goose.
Golden State Warriors: D-less like a Warrior Girl
Like Lightning, the opposing team takes the path of least resistance to the rim... right past CJ Watson
The BWright 'era'
is most likely coming to an end in the bay. The question is who de we package with him and what do we get back at this point.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 13, 2009 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
+1
BW is a rookie in everything but name. He’s really only played a handful of games and only in a fraction of those games has he really gotten meaningful minutes.
Golden State Warriors: D-less like a Warrior Girl
Like Lightning, the opposing team takes the path of least resistance to the rim... right past CJ Watson
trade this fool
he will never be the pf ppl see it when he got drafted.
by warriorfan4life on Apr 14, 2009 2:07 AM PDT up reply actions
How about just flipping the #1 pick straight up?
Maggette, Belinelli and Azibuike and the #1 pick for Chris Bosh and the #8 pick anybody?
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 13, 2009 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
rubio will be MUCH better than nash
only comparison is the hair
whoa, whoa, whoa
MUCH better than Nash? The guy is a 2 time MVP. I know at least one of those awards was undeserved, but still lets not get carried away. Nash has been one of the league’s elite point guards for the last decade, I like Rubio as much as just about anyone, but its more than a little premature to say he will be MUCH better than Nash or Kidd or even Andre Miller.
Thing A
nash became "ELITE"
in d’antoni’s system…. thats it…. otherwise he was a good pg… even a very good one, but not elite. Not Jason Kidd the predominate pg of last decade or cp3, deron williams
Chris Duhon sure hasn’t become “elite” has he? The system helps, but Nash was a very, very good player before going back to Phoenix. His bad defense should’ve prevented him from winning the MVP, but there haven’t been many PGs in the history of the game that ran an offense as well as Nash did. How many other guards in the league have made 300+ 3s in a season while shooting over 50% from the field? Not many. And I’m guessing less than a handful of those guys also averaged close to 12 assists per 36 minutes. If Ricky Rubio somehow pulls all that off AND is good defender he’ll be ranked up there with Stockton and Robertson when he’s done. Nash has been dismissed by so many fans as overrated so often over the last couple years that he’s become underrated, kinda the opposite of a guy like Paul Millsap.
Thing A
I don't think it is necessary for him to score that much. Which he still needs a lot of work on.
But we have other players to score. He just needs to get assists, rebound for his position and play good defense. Even without the scoring 20 a game, I’ll take that.
Oh I agree, I don’t think its necessary for Rubio to score if he comes here, I’m just saying he’s not exactly a lock to be MUCH better than Nash.
Thing A
A guy half as good as what Nash is at PG, is still twice as good as any pg we already have.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
+1
lets just hope that he is better than 1/2 of Nash at the defensive end…
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 14, 2009 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions
the difference between duhon and nash is that nash had 2 all-stars in Amare and Marion plus Barbosa who before the death of his mother was a borderline all star. Duhon has Harrington, Lee and Robinson, what 3 would you chose?
Nash was pretty damn good before he went to the Suns. He was better than merely ‘good’ when he played for Dallas. He was easily on par with Deron Williams, who is a very good point guard.
deron williams is 24 and a much better defender
nash didnt have his first starter quality year w/ dallas till he was 26/27. Avgd 15.6 ppg, 7.3 apg, 3.2 rpg, 48.7 fg%, 40.6 3pt%. Before that he was largely a backup…. Nash is quality no doubt but deron williams and cp3 r better at there respective ages… and nash never reached kidds level, peticularly if u consider defense in. i’ll admit i’ve been a kidd homer since he was at Cal. But for me there has always been a huge divide between nash and kidd
Please note that the ‘at their respective ages’ was your qualifier, not mine. What Nash did in his first year as a regular starter for Dallas is on par with what Deron Williams did.
I did not mention Chris Paul at all, who is better than Nash and better than Williams. They’ll be linked because of their draft class and position, but Paul is a more productive player than Williams. Paul is among the very, very elite in the game who is good enough to build a championship team with.
i'd agree paul is ahead of williams
(as would anyone) but I think deron williams is a quality pg who you can build your future with. He’ll be forever compared to paul and since paul reached superstar status first that makes williams look somewhat bad. Williams is still a 20 pt. 10 assist a game pg… not easy to find. Shoots a very good percentage and is better from 3 pt range (although he is down this year).
Williams is a very good player. If he is your point guard, you do not trytoupgrade teh position because you are very, very unlikely to do so. He is not good enough to be the best player on a championship team. Paul is.
Way to go mighty Casey
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
AB1=TK
by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 24, 2009 6:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Thanks for posting that link
I hadn’t seen much of Rubio, but watching that makes me realize how much Nash he really has in him; the vision, the creativity, the quick hands, and the activity level. Also love the way he runs the break and uses glass consistently. I may need to revise my theory that (Belli or BW), (Crawford or Maggs), and our pick would be too much to give up. I might even throw in a future #1. This kid is special.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Yea, before I assumed he wouldn't declare, but now the odds have improved.
But imo he’s a Kidd Clone (When compared to Nash), great Court Vision and great Defense, but more of a half-court player. Still would like him, but would prefer a player who’s more apt at playing full court.
Brandon Jennings or Ty Lawson. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
kidd is 1 of best fast break pg's ever...
his rebounding and vision upcourt is unparalleled. I wouldnt call him a half court pony, especially considering his jumper has never stuck.
+1
He pushed those Suns and Nets teams pretty fast. He’d pull the board and get it up court so fast and so well. You kind of forget how good he was.
Thing 2
Yep,
those teams were something special. While Amare is still good, the rest of the players on the team had to either readjust their games(Joe Johnson) or just completely fell apart after leaving Phoenix(Marion, Richardson to name a few).
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 13, 2009 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Further back...
I was actually talking about Kidd’s Suns. The ones he lead to 50+ wins sharing the court with the likes of a very young Marion, Uncle Cliffy, Tony Delk, Rodney Rogers, and Tom Gugliotta (he even lead the team in total rebounds in 99-00, second only to Marion the following year). He actually made those teams fun to watch which IMO was a pretty big accomplishment above and beyond the stats and the wins.
Thing 2
woops my bad,
sorry i didnt even read what you were replying too. Jason Kidd will most likely be a first ballot hall of famer.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 13, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions
+1 more
I always felt Kidd struggled a whole lot more in the half court game than he did when he was out and running. Its no coincidence he did so well when surrounded by uptempo guys like Kenyon Martin and Richard Jefferson (not to mention Vallejo’s own Brandon Armstrong)
Thing A
Yea that was my bad
I was typing that in a rush and was thinking about Marcus Williams and how I was pissed we traded for his useless half-court skill set and that anything is an improvement over that. Good catch.
Brandon Jennings or Ty Lawson. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
Jennings is cool...
but I’m somewhat apprehensive of pairing Monta with a PG who’s only 6’0".
Golden State Warriors: D-less like a Warrior Girl
Like Lightning, the opposing team takes the path of least resistance to the rim... right past CJ Watson
+1
Sadly, I agree. Then again, if we go with small fast guards and then Beans/Randolph/Jack at the 3/4/5 we might be ok — so long as Jennings can keep his guy in front of him. The real death blow is when our guards are sieves, and their guys are constantly getting past them to penetrate and break down the defense…
DeJuan Blair 6-6 287 PF Pittsburgh So
6-6 and 287!!! Holy Crap! That boy is ROUND!
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Apr 13, 2009 12:54 PM PDT reply actions
Nellie would not play Blair
He doesn’t have a shot and doesn’t fit into the system. He’s a good player, though.
how r ariza and outlaw different than buike
they just have superstar (kobe or roy) around them
No
Ariza is better than Buike, and I like Buike a lot. Ariza plays great D, rebounds, has a nice shot and is bigger. The big difference is the defense. While Buike is solid, Ariza is a star defensive player in the making.
"star" is probably an exaggeration...
I like the guns on Kelenna. He can hold his own against bigger guys, and his defense is pretty solid. Plus, he’s a better scorer than Ariza. Given the option for a straight-up trade, I’d probably keep Kelenna. Let’s wait and see what Ariza gets paid in the offseason before we compare though… I think Kelenna’s a damn good deal at $3MM/year…
Defense
Ariza is an excellent (and willing) lock-down defender.
He’s not a great offensive player, but if he can hit the Bowen shot consistently, he won’t need to be.
Good video and highlights of the 09' Nike Hoops Summit.
2009 Nike Hoop Summit Highlights
Good look at John Wall, arguably the #1 prospect entering the NCAA next year.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
i think he's the #1 PG prospect
he supposebly leaning towards Kentuky along with the top SG prospect Xavier Henry and top center prospect Demarcus Cousins.
by gametime_gsw on Apr 14, 2009 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
personally i'd take rubio over griffin
not completely sold on blake griffin being a star. Has a great work ethic though and could be duncan like in that regard… but rubio for me seems best talent. The last pg who came into the league as a teenager able to contribute was tony parker… and rubio is much better than parker
Still on the Kirk Hinrich bandwagon...
So we didn’t or couldn’t get Hinrich last summer. A lot of us thought that Harrington for Hinrich (matching salaries) made so much sense it had to happen. Apparently Paxson loves Hinrich, though, so the deal may not have been there. Crawford is so far inferior to Hinrich, at least in filling the Warriors’ needs, it’s not even really worth getting into the comparison.
(The basic idea behind why Hinrich is a great fit for the Warriors is b/c he’s physically big and can play solid man to man D against the opponent’s SG, letting Monta play SG on offense but guarding PGs on D. He’s also a pass-first guy but he has a great shot, even from the 3, so teams can’t go “under” on the high pick and roll that Nellie loves to run for Monta. Also, he’s a veteran who has leadership qualities, letting Monta focus on what he does best – score.)
Anyhow, I think the best PG prospect as it relates specifically to the Warriors is Jrue Holliday, but I’m sure many will disagree with this. Even if you’re high on the guy like I am it should be noted that he’ll need time to develop, since he didn’t even play PG this year b/c of Westbrook, though he is said to be a “pure PG”. The area all the other PG options fall short in (Rubio, Jennings, Warren, etc.) is the ability to play solid D against an opponent’s 2, which in the NBA includes players like Dwayne Wade, Kobe Bryant, Brandon Roye, etc. We need a defensively gifted guard to play with Monta if we’re going to have a shot late in games. Otherwise, we have to trade Monta. Those are really the only options, realisitically, I think.
My point:
The Warriors should use the first round pick (unless it’s the #1 pick) to get a guy who’s already in the league who has proven he can play good defense AND run the point intelligently and effectively. Once you subtract the franchise or near-franchise guys who’d be perfect like Deron Williams, Derrick Rose or Jameer Nelson you’re not left with a long list. Then you consider which teams could part with that player without getting a proven PG in return and the list is even shorter.
The Warriors should package this year’s first round pick (unless #1) with Jamal Crawford for Kirk Hinrich
I think that move alone puts us in the playoffs next year. You have a starting lineup of Hinrich, Ellis, Jackson, Randolph and Biedrins. Maggette’s the 6th man with Turiaf, Buike, Morrow and Wright as the main rotation guys. Playoffs.
Hinrich is nice,
but our first rounder is too much to give up for this guy. How about we use a Ellis, Jackson, Azibuike backcourt next season. Jackson can distrubute reasonable well and Ellis would defend the point in that situation.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 13, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions
We need a PG
I disagree with Jrue Holiday as the Warrior’s perfect PG, and I’m not as high as Neon is on Hinrich, but the fact remains that we need a “pass first” player. Ellis, Jack, and Buike are not those players, though Jackson can distribute decently. It’s extremely disheartening looking at game stats and seeing that on quite a few box scores Turiaf leads the team in assists.
Just looking at the team we have right now, I think we would be markedly improved by picking up a pure PG. We have 4 solid (though not perfect) big men and an array of shooting talent (Beli, Jack, AMo, Buike, and even CJ to a degree) that just needs a PG to get them the ball. Throw in the handful of other guys that we have that are also offensively productive (Maggs, Crawford on some days), and we are a HIGH powered offense.
God Please… Warriors #1 or 2 in draft and take Rubio
Golden State Warriors: D-less like a Warrior Girl
Like Lightning, the opposing team takes the path of least resistance to the rim... right past CJ Watson
Wouldn't you be happy
if the first round pick in this draft turned into a Hinrich clone? I would. Doesn’t that mean you should trade the pick for Hinrich?
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Yep
as cap’n hack said you completly forget to bring up Hinrich’s outrageous salary. And yes it is a vey very big deal.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 15, 2009 12:45 AM PDT up reply actions
The Warriors should package this year’s first round pick (unless #1) with Jamal Crawford for Kirk Hinrich
Even if it’s #2? Assuming Rubio declares (and really, even if he doesn’t) this is one of the silliest things I’ve ever seen bolded on this site.
On the bright side, it may also be the most lopsided deal in the trading partner’s favor I’ve seen posted here, so props for the realism. Chicago would take that deal in a heartbeat — assuming their entire FO didn’t drop dead from excitement first.
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 15, 2009 3:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Even if it’s #2? Assuming Rubio declares (and really, even if he doesn’t) this is one of the silliest things I’ve ever seen bolded on this site.
My thoughts exactly.
Thing A
In defense of the trade idea
The Rubio bandwagon is packed and it’s picking up steam!
Maybe he’s gonna be good; he certainly has had some success in the Euroleague and he looked great against our all-star team in the international style at the Olympics. His mix tape’s tight. But have you taken a look at that mix tape? Over half the stuff he does in the big YouTube highlights video would not, IMO, pass in the NBA. (This is the one DubsHoop put up and which I’m referring to – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSBLKrZCkeU ) Fans call him a young Pistol Pete. Wow, maybe they’re getting a little ahead of themselves.
I ask, how many Euro-born white PGs have ever had success in the NBA?
I’m no historian, but I believe that number is 0. (Remember Šarūnas Jasikevičius? please, make me forget) Maybe he’s the first, maybe he isn’t. Is he quick enough? I don’t think he looks quick, but then again lots of people think quick doesn’t matter. Is he tough enough? I don’t know as he hasn’t faced the same level of physical play as he soon will; we’ll find out. Is he going to be good at NBA defense? This is where I’m most skeptical. People think a couple Olympics games are proof that he will be. I don’t think that’s enough to make a judgement.
The three main reasons I’m so gung ho on Hinrich is his ability to play solid defense against an opponent’s SG, his ability to space out the floor by regularly hitting 3s, and his floor leadership / pass-first mentality. Let’s compare Hinrich to Rubio in these three facets of the game.
Defense – I have a nice cable package but I haven’t been watching Rubio’s Euroleague play. I’d doubt anyone else on this site does, but I’d be curious if they do. Can this guy defend big SGs in the NBA? He’s scrawny and lightweight. He’s 6’4" and weighs 180 lb. (for comparison, Jamal Crawford’s 6’5" and 200 lb. and is a heinous defender; Hinrich is 6’3" and 190 lb. and is a great defender) Sure Rubio can eventually add weight but not right now. Can he ever gain quickness? ESPN’s scouting says he “lacks explosiveness athletically and has below-average lateral quickness.” This guy’s guarding D-Wade and Kobe? Haha, ok
Draining 3’s – This is really important b/c it forces teams to play the high pick and roll in a certain way. The high pick and roll is obviously one of Monta’s best setups since it gives him the ball and he matches up against a bigger, slower guy on the switch. He can simply shoot over him or he can drive and finish or dish. It’s sweet – we’ve been watching it for a few years now. BUT, the only way you can do this is by having the other player be a 3-pt threat so the defender has to switch and can’t just sag off. They have to go “over” the pick and not “under” and stay honest on the guy who rolls off the pick. My question is, will Rubio be able to hit this shot? Personally, I think he will be able to hit it regularly in a couple years, but his shot doesn’t look that great yet. ESPN’s scouting says Rubio “lacks deep range on his jumper.”
Floor leadership / pass-first mentality – This is probably Rubio’s greatest strength and watching him it looks like he could be an elite NBA passer. I’m no Rubio hater. I simply think that the kid’s 18 years old and like most PGs he’ll need some time to figure out the NBA game. I think he’ll become a great passer, and will probably enter the league as a pretty good passer, but there are a lot of situational things and maturity that is needed to really make the right plays down the stretch. I think he’ll need to develop this. As for leadership, how can an 18 year old come in and command the respect of Stephen Jackson and the veterans? How can he know the intricacies of the other teams’ players and coaches, the refs, etc. How can he get Don Nelson to trust him to run the show at the end of the game? This is stuf good PGs need to be able to do and they make choices taking all of this into account. It takes time to develop.
Anyhow, whether you agree or not with my trade suggestion it’s not some crazy idea. It’s not stupid and it’s not absurd. We have the youngest team in the league, including multiple players who would still be in college right now. I don’t think we need more youth. We do need a PG and a defensive presence at the guard spot.
Trading Crawford, who’s a liability and not an asset for us the way our team’s built, along with a draft pick that has only a 5% chance of getting a #2 draft pick, is not really giving up that much. We’re asking the other team, in a way, to pay an inflated price for Jamal Crawford, who’s not worth his contract. In return, we’d be getting a true pass-first PG with PROVEN NBA EXPERIENCE who has shown consistently he can hit his jump shot and can guard good players man to man.
As for the money, Hinrich makes $10 million a year. It’s a considerable deal, just like Crawford’s deal, which we would swap it for. Unlike Crawford, though, Hinrich could get this money today if he was a free agent. Nobody would give that deal to Crawford right now. The draft pick would also make some money, so the net is basically even.
If we get a young PG we’ll have to develop him and it will take time. There will be growing pains. I think the team’s young enough and I’m sick of the growing pains. I want a veteran presence who will improve everyone’s play. I don’t dislike Rubio, I just don’t think he’s the answer for the Warriors right now. Like Ron Burgundy said, “agree to disagree.”
by Neon on Apr 15, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I ask, how many Euro-born white PGs have ever had success in the NBA?
It just takes one. Prior to Nash, there weren’t any S.African-born/Canadian raised point guards with any success in the NBA either. Prior to Olajuwon, there weren’t any star Nigerian-born HOF centers. Remember, we’re drafting a particular player, not a continental designation.
Can this guy defend big SGs in the NBA? He’s scrawny and lightweight. He’s 6’4" and weighs 180 lb.
Which, for what it’s worth is the same height and weight Gary Payton played at.
So then go out on a limb and say something
It’s easy to poke holes – the question is “what do you think?”
Are you saying you think he’ll play good defense in the NBA. Are you saying he’ll be Gary Payton? Is Kirk Hinrich a bad fit for the Warriors? Make a prediction. Say something meaningful. Asking questions is easy.
I have no idea if he’ll be a good player or not. I’ve seen very little of him and don’t have a feeling for how his performance in a european league does or doesn’t predict success.
But if you’re making an argument that at his size, he’ll have defensive problems, there’s a counter to a very good defender of similar size. And if you’re making a general statement that because there haven’t been successful European born point guards then he’s likely to fail, I think you’re subscribing to flawed logic based on some typological classification that doesn’t address the individual.
Asking questions is easy. Asking intelligent questions seems to be something of a challenge for many.
I’ve made more than my share predictions here, Neon, and I’m not the least bit shy of going out on a limb to say something that doesn’t fit with the conventional wisdom. Others can be the judge of whether or not I say “meaningful” things here, but I suspect that most would conclude that the amount of real content I bring is pretty damn substantial.
i'd say jose calderon, is a pretty good starting pg. from spain
"so much losers" - hiero
by montamazing on Apr 15, 2009 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions
on thetopic of his weight
he is 18 and born in 1990 (weird to think about). He’ll naturally get stronger
jackson led nba in turnovers....
cause he was asked to do too much. Buike is a blackhole. i’d like to see a good passer swing come in…. and play belinelli more….
rotation
1: monta, cj
2: beli, another passer
3: jack, mags, buike
A lot of us thought that Harrington for Hinrich (matching salaries) made so much sense
you got a pocket full of mice?
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 13, 2009 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Is that clever?
You didn’t even say anything or make a point. [Insert random hip-hop lyric here] Cool.
Is that clever?
Haha, I’ve asked myself that about pretty much all of Skeptic’s 6,700 posts here.
The answer is generally either “yes,” “no,” or “I have no freaking clue.”
Either way, “is that clever?” should be his new sig line. (I have no freaking clue if his current sig line is clever…)
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 13, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions
No
It’s an Eminem reference, which makes it inherently unclever.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 14, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
I know it's blasphemy for a white man, but...
I never really liked Eminem and his recent stuff is absolute crap. Somebody compared it to Weird Al, and it’s pretty spot on from what I hear on the radio.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 15, 2009 6:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Em
Hasn’t been the same since his best friend Proof died.
by The Dedication on Apr 15, 2009 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions
If the Warriors do trade down (15-20) and rid themselves of a contract, or pick up another pick, I take a long hard look at Wake Forest’s James Johnson.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
Whats your thoughts on Willie Warren,
he has great size for a pg(6’4") and looks like he can be a nice late round addition.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 13, 2009 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions
OU's Warren
Yeah, ESPN’s Draft Lottery has us getting Willie Warren with the 7th or 8th spot assuming we don’t move up. I hadn’t really paid a lot of attention to him during the season, but it looks like he’s got some skills. He’s just a freshman though and he hasn’t officially declared so we shall see.
I like Warren.
I like him better than I like Tyreke Evans (both being similar players imo). Warren is the better shooter of the two, but Evans might be better at getting to the rim. Warren’s shooting is his best attribute right now and is more of a combo guard than an undersized SG.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
neither
evans atleast handled point in college…. willie warren is a ben gordon type player, if we take a pg, make it a true pg
Rubio
I’m also very high on this kid, and think he can be the next great point guard in the league. If we keep that number 7 pick, I wouldn’t hesitate to trade that pick with Wright and Crawford for Rubio. He could be our perfect pass-first point guard / great defender alongside Monta, WIth Rubio, Monta, Jackson, Randolph, and Andris, they could draft a small forward in next year’s draft and end up with a perennial playoff contender.
Waiting to adopt someone...
Preach Brother!
Golden State Warriors: D-less like a Warrior Girl
Like Lightning, the opposing team takes the path of least resistance to the rim... right past CJ Watson
ok, but Crawford actually brings the trade value of that package DOWN. I dont see any of the lottery teams being willing to take on Crawford’s salary AND move down from 2 to 7 just for Wright. I think a couple of those teams might take a #2 for the #7, Belinelli, and Wright deal, but not even all of them would do that. I’m not sure many teams would even send us an expiring contract in return for Crawford, Wright and the 7.
Thing A
Just curious, do you have any realistic trade scenarios that could net us that #2 pick?
Waiting to adopt someone...
More realistic
How about Randolph + #7, assuming the team at #1 has a decent PG and wants to get bigger?
Or maybe … Biedrins + #7, and we get #2 plus a totally worthless albatross of some kind?
If everyone on this board would do Beli + Wright + #7 for Rubio at #2, it kinda tells you it’s not a great deal for the team holding #2. The team holding #2 will either (a) just grab Rubio, and be set at PG for the next 12 years or (b) extract their pound of flesh, and then some, from whoever wants him.
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 13, 2009 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Yea, looking back again I think the only lottery team that might seriously consider Beli+Wright+7 for 2 would be Memphis. Wright would be a pretty good fit in the frontcourt between Gay and Gasol. They seem to like Conley at PG. With Hakim Warrick likely to leave it seems like they could really use a 4 and Wright is as young as most currently in the draft, if he were entering the draft right now he seems like someone Memphis would at least consider with the #2 pick. If they could pick him up, add a serviceable backup guard, and another mid-lottery pick I think it would be worth it to them to take a chance on passing on Rubio.
Thing A
Beli+Wright+7+ a future first rounder?
that might work and if we agree to take back some smallerish contract thats undesiarable to match Beli and Wright.
Unfortunetly we gave up the trade rights to our future first the next 3 years so we could get the Marcus Williams Expirience.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 13, 2009 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Great post and points there Sleepy.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
Exactly right… as much as I believe in Wright’s abilities, I just don’t think we could get an upgrade like that simply by removing the two guys it makes the most sense to remove. Wright never got the minutes to showcase himself consistently, he’d (rightly) strike other teams as a bit of an injury risk, and other teams would wonder why we’d be willing to give up on a promising 21-year-old power forward so quickly. The real answer is “because we have Randolph and because Nellie doesn’t like him,” but other teams would understandably fear that the answer is “because he’s not very good”.
Wright can probably be part of an effective package right now, but to get up to Rubio territory, we’d need to give up someone we don’t want to give up. Maybe something like this:
Kelenna Azubuike, Brandan Wright, Marco Belinelli and the 7th pick
for
the 2nd pick and some mid-sized cap albatross (Darius Songalia? Marko Jaric? Nick Collison?)
Would something like that still be worth it for us? I think it might. Giving up on both ‘Buike AND Wright would really sting, but if Rubio is as good as is believed (I don’t feel qualified to judge, but smart people seem to think he’s very good), I think you have to pull the trigger on something like that.
PG – Ricky Rubio, CJ Watson
SG – Monta Ellis, Anthony Morrow
SF – Stephen Jackson, Corey Maggette
PF – Anthony Randolph
C – Andris Biedrins, Ronny Turiaf
Honestly, that lays out pretty nicely. You’re short a big man, but maybe the bad contract you take back is that guy, or maybe you target a Powe type with the MLE. If Rubio’s the real deal and Monta at least puts a little effort in defensively, I think that’s a playoff team, and a damn fun one at that. (Crawford is unaccounted for… I don’t think he opts out, but I don’t think he plays, either, so I’m ignoring him for now, much like the Warriors.)
Problem is, most of the teams ahead of us in the lottery race are probably not opposed to Rubio. If we don’t land a top-three pick (and ideally a top-two pick), I think our chances at getting Rubio are pretty tiny, and our chances at getting Rubio without giving up Monta, Biedrins or Randolph are effectively zero. But who knows. A lot of the teams above us are almost as dumb as we are.
I would definitely make any of those deals. I can’t see the Wizards doing it, Rubio would seem to be a good fit for them. The Grizzlies seem fairly committed to Conley at PG and with Mayo capable of playing some minutes there too I think their focus would probably be on a 4 to play between Gay and Gasol. I think the idea of adding Wright to their starting lineup and Belinelli, Buike and the 7th pick as key bench players could be pretty appealing. I don’t know about OKC. While Westbrook definitely seems to be their PG of the future it seems like they kinda like Collison. I’m sure they’d prefer Wright to Collison, but I think they could probably find a better deal.
Thing A
I'd take Rubio over Griffin
Griffin is a PF only who can’t play D (at least for now).
Rubio is an amazing passer with the perfect PG mentality who can still grow physically and develop a more reliable jumpshot.
I absolutely love Rubio
I’m crossing my fingers for that number 2 pick. Number 1 would be nice as well :)
Rubio's athleticism worries me
Per Draft Express, some NBA GM’s doubt his game will translate well to the NBA and Draft Express refers to him as not very athletic. I watched his highlight tapes and I question whether those same plays and moves will work against a well tooled NBA defenses.
Defensively, he is an anticipator, who relies on vision and know how rather than superior athleticsim like AR.
I don’t think he pairs up well with Ellis nor does he fit in well with our philosophy of playing with super athletic, fast players.
He could be second coming of Nash. What we need more though, with this team, is the second coming of Spree. A huge athletic defender who can also score 20. Turn up the defence and we’ll have a great year next year.
If we had the first pick, no question we should go with Griffin. If we had the 2nd pick, I rather package Rubio to get an big impact player like Amare. Rubio is a lot to give up and it would take an Amare, or possibly Bosh with a long term deal to make it a good deal.
Amare can score
but he doesn’t bring it on the defensive end either. There are not many huge athletic defenders who can score 20 on a nightly basis. The only one that comes to mind is Dwight.
LeBron James? I'm the only Ty Crane.
by misterjennings on Apr 14, 2009 6:50 AM PDT up reply actions
He's been handling the ball much more
Both Nellie and Jack says Randolph will handle the ball next year.. That doesn’t guarantee he’s good enough to handle the ball. We’ll have to trust Nellie (again) on this.
to quote nellie, you dont need to be fast to run this offense… wouldnt all jack a speed demon, a good passer can make up for lack of ‘footspeed’. Anyway its just general nba skeptism over white-euro players high in the draft. Its fair if u look at recent track record of them. I think he’s a unique talent I wouldnt want to pass on…. And lets not make him sound like a total stiff he was able to defend and steal off elite nba players at age 17 in the olympics…. what will he do when he’s 20? 25?
vision is something u cant teach
he was dominating the american team
in the olympics….
1v1 he owned nash and cp3
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
1v1 he owned nash
So could you’re grandma. Don’t you remember those games where Monta & BD would take turns abusing him?
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 15, 2009 6:35 AM PDT up reply actions
AND cp3
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
what does his defense have to do with anything?
rubio owned him when cp3 was on offense…stole from him i think twice
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
lets face it the team we have this year
is pretty much the team we will have next year, only AR should be much improved, no one gets on mopeds this summer and we have a #7 rok who will sit on the bench most of the year.
some small changes with some 3rd string players that no one cares about and “presto” you have the Dubs 09/10 season.
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
And you know what
That season isn’t going to be that bad.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 14, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
But then again
What’s the point of having a draft thread if you’re not talking about what players you might get if you win the lottery :-P
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 14, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
IF we keep Watson...
No one’s talking about the fact that he’s a free agent after this year. He’s been playing for LOOT these past several games, and he’s been doing a damned good job. So that could be one major change — we might lose CJ, which underscores even more our need for a PG in the draft…
Guys I found a huge development on John Wall:
He was awesome and he’ll compete with Ed Davis and a few other freshmen for that. However, there is some buzz that Wall believes he might be eligible for THIS year’s draft. I’ve been doing some digging and will be filing a story later today. The short rub is this: Wall is a 5th year senior and depending on how you read the collective bargaining agreement, 5th year seniors are eligible for the draft as long as the turn 19 in the calander year (Wall does). The league is taking a wait and see approach. If he declares, they’ll research and make a ruling. If he does declare and is ruled eligible (two big ifs) he’s a Top 5 pick in this draft. Maybe Top 3.
Holy hell, I hope this is true and if win any of the lotto picks he could be one of our picks.
Brandon Jennings or Ty Lawson. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
by ejdacanay on Apr 14, 2009 12:26 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I'd definately take Wall over Rubio
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or John Wall. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
rubio looked too good in the olympics to say that some kid who worked a bunch of high schoolers should definitely be taken above him. if they look pretty close in workouts, you’ve got to give the edge to rubio because he’s proven it in a high level pro league and against nba players in the olympics. wall would need to dominate him at pre-draft camps before i’d consider taking him over rubio.
with how weak this draft is though, he could be the #3.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
PLUS, Rubio’s already been playing pro ball in Europe for a few years. That counts for something in the way of polish and maturity. Europe may not be the US, but it’s going to prepare you for the NBA much better than high school AAU ball.
Marco was playing pro in europe too
but wansn’t very good his rookie year like most euros that come play in the NBA.
Wall is the real deal i saw him playing in the Nike Summit Hoops game(Team world vs USA, USA lost). and could say i was very impressed with his passing ability and ability to get to the rim and finish over seven footers. this dude is the real deal and whoever said he was a Derrick Rose clone must have seen him play to, no exageration, this dude is 6’2 and blocked a shot that was a foot well above the rim.
by gametime_gsw on Apr 17, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Luis Scola was the MVP of the Euro league
that right there should tell you the caliber of play in europe.
by gametime_gsw on Apr 18, 2009 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Also tells you that you can get the MVP for something other than flashy play and high PPG average. Scola is a very valuable player for the Rockets. His contributions are almost all of the under-appreciated but rather useful in creating wins variety. Rockets don’t win 50+ games without him and would have been battling Suns for the last playoff spot.
dammit i got riped by the great jae
“Rockets don’t win 50+ games without him”
that might be true, and i like scola, he is a solid player and burned us in the olympics. but he would never be considered being even close to an MVp in the NBA.
by gametime_gsw on Apr 18, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
He isn’t. He’s not close to being the MVP of the NBA. But I suspect that most NBA fans discount what he does and put it in the “role player” which they use as a synonym for “mostly replaceable and somewhat interchangeable”.
He isn’t generally as productive as the guys who have won MVP awards in NBA, but he’s also not the sort of player whose contributions are recognized by voters of the award even if he was. If drafting the MVP of a euro league is assured of netting you a player as productive as him, you’d do better than the vast majority of draft picks.
yeah it tells you that if you draft the mvp of the euro league you're probably going to get a very good...
polished rookie…have you ever watched scola play…there’s no flash in his game whatsoever…but theres a lot of substance…i would be happy to have him on this team, in fact he would fill a lot of holes in the warriors roster and make the team a good amount better
"so much losers" - hiero
by montamazing on Apr 18, 2009 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Wall is the complete package
Other than the Olympics, where else can you guys evaluate him? And if he was that great, why didn’t he start int he Olympics? He has not done well in the Euroleague this year and was injured for a large portion of it, Jennings put up better numbers than him. Wall got the J that Rubio is missing, got the lateral quickness and athleticism which Rubio lacks, and looks better in transition to be honest.
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or John Wall. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
rubio
he didn’t start in the olympics because he was 17 and there was a guy named jose calderon on the team. his spanish league season has gone very well and he’s considered an exceptional perimeter defender (not to mention that embarassed jennings when they went head to head. could only drive one direction because of his wrist and still beat him off the dribble every play). recovering from the injury certainly didn’t help his season stats, but as he’s healed, he’s turned heads. he’s pretty much a can’t miss player at this point. maybe not a superstar, but he’ll be very very good.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Very interesting...
Still likely out of our range, but it could make things very interesting if we land a top three pick.
Thing 2
or could push a second tier prospect down to us. if wall declares and we get james harden at #7 because of it, i’ll send him a gift basket that day. it’s not likely, but wouldn’t it be nice?
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
That's another possibility.
I guess when your sitting at #7 pre-lotto more talented players entering the draft can only be a good thing. : )
Thing 2
James Harden = Blah.
Poor man’s Michael Redd, at best.
Huh?
He looks to be an athletic swing man with a decent shot.
Red is a out of shape swing man with a fantastic shot.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 15, 2009 12:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Honestly, he’s never looked that athletic to me. He looks over-hyped. Personally, I wouldn’t gamble on him — we have enough young dudes, and I’d venture to guess that every one of our guys under 24 is going to end up as good or better than Harden…
he’s a pretty safe bet to be a good player. there’s not that much upside to him, but he seems like he’ll be good. we could use more good players, even if monta, randolph and biedrins end up better than him (i don’t think that morrow, wright or marco will be as good as harden, but morrow has the best chance to). smart player, probably best served to be a secondary offensive option. seems like a good fit here.
i’m also confused about the statement “we have enough young dudes”. it’s the draft, if we pick anyone, they’ll be young. of course, if harden’s not on the board, i’d be very open to dealing the pick along with a bad contract to clear some cap space.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I guess I meant “…young dudes with potential”. My gut — and it’s just that, my gut — is that Harden will be no better than Marco. I’d have to see if Harden would actually hustle on D first; I’m almost certain he doesn’t have comparable court vision… Again, FWIW, but that’s just my gut after watching him play a few times.
sounds like we’re in pretty similar boats on with our james harden knowledge (even though we’ve got different opinions). i’ve only seen him play a couple times, so i’m mostly basing it off scouting reports.
in this draft, at the 7 slot, we’d be hard pressed to do better than him. i like his game and think he’d be a good fit and worth a shot. he’d definitely be the bpa at the 7 if he’s still on the board. i’d be excited if he fell to us, but am not expecting him to be a world beater. i’d be more than pleased with getting someone who we could call “the 4th best player on the team” in a couple years. harden seems like the best bet for that title.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I for one don’t believe the league is gonna let this fly. The language in the CBA, or at least Larry Coon’s summary of it, is that eligible players must be “one year removed” from high school. You’d have to interpret that language pretty loosely to allow Wall’s eligibility. Plus, what’s gonna stop a ton of star prep players from flunking on purpose so that they get held back? I don’t think the NBA wants to set that precedence.
Greg Monroe will be a top-3 pick next year
He’s not coming out of Georgetown this year but watch him next year. He’s like a young Chris Webber – amazing passer, high basketball IQ, sweet shot, and all that other normal PF stuff like rebounding, D, and shot blocking.
I don't know if we could tank any better than we did this season...
I mean, this team is bad, but it’s not THAT bad…
If the Dubs tank for anyone in the 2010 draft
It would be for John Wall, but Monroe would be one hell of a consolation prize
He hasn't declared.
http://www.casualhoya.com/2009/4/14/833296/tomorrow-is-the-first-day-of-next
He hasn’t declared he’s staying in school, either.
Either way … meh. Monroe’s not a even an adequate rebounder for a power forward (7.5 per 36). He’s like Webber … if Webber were a mediocre rebounder with no playmaking skills. I probably wouldn’t pick him even if he declared and slipped all the way to #7.
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 14, 2009 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Yea I’m not nearly as high on Monroe as I was a couple months ago…..I’d consider him at 7, but not if we land in the top 3. Hey, Sleepy do you know what the odds are of us ending up 8th or worse? maybe someone could lay out all of our odds. (odds of ending up at 7, odds of getting any top 3 pick, odds of getting 8,9, or 10)
Thing A
Pie chart?
I think I might need a visual aid.
Thing 2
by olympicmike on Apr 15, 2009 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Dude
That’s not a pie. I don’t know what it is, but if it’s not a pie it can’t be a pie chart.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 15, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Thanks, dude!
You saved me a lot of time. Well done. You left out the tiny little sliver of chance that we get the #10 pick (i.e. the chance of three teams behind us getting the Top 3 picks) but I think it’s fair to ignore that. Then again, we are talking about the Warriors…
Looking at pie charts always makes me think of that old game All-Star Baseball, wherein players’ stats were converted into “pie-wedges” on paper discs which you would insert into a li’l spinner and spin…
Our chances of getting the #1 or 2 are sligtly better than the chances of, say, Steve Garvey drawing a base on balls (#9) … which, when you think about it, really ain’t that bad…
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 15, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
but our odds of ending up at 8 is actually better than our odds of getting any top 3 pick…. I was afraid that would be the case.
Thing A
Think of this way, Sam: would you be at all surprised if we ended up with #8? I certainly wouldn’t. And our chances of getting #1,2, or 3 — and thereby doing cartwheels around the house (assuming both Rubio and Wall declare and are eligible) — are only marginally worse than our chances of getting #8…
Come on Garvey BB!!!
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 15, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
See the little menu right above where you comment? It lets you bold, italicize, strikethrough and
quote someone else’s postThen the last two icons let you link stuff or add pics. If you click on the little tree picture something should pop up for you to copy the picture into. I recommend previewing your post when you include a picture to make sure you got it.
Thing A
BRANDON JENNINGS MOVEMENT
LETS START THE BRANDON JENNINGS MOVEMENT
PG: Monta Ellis/ Jamal Crawford/ CJ Watson
SG: Brandon Jennings/ Anthony Morrow/ Marco Belinelli
SF: Stephen Jackson/ Correy Maggette/ Kelenna Azubuike
PF: Brandon Wright/ Anthony Randolph
C: Andris Biedrins/ Ronny Turiaf
GAME OVER!
Dude... no
Basketball is more than just athleticism. It’s really cool that we have Monta, Maggs, and Buike (sometimes) to throw down some monster jams. It’s fun to watch when Crawford busts someone’s ankles. It’s exciting to see AR run down the floor like a guard and handle the rock. I love seeing that as much as the next man. But you know what I like to see more? I actually like it when we WIN.
We’ve got a LOT of athleticism in my opinion. No need to add another athletic freak like Jennings. Now let’s get some Court IQ.
Golden State Warriors: D-less like a Warrior Girl
Like Lightning, the opposing team takes the path of least resistance to the rim... right past CJ Watson
You mean Mike Dunleavy?
Great court IQ and can do everything on the court?
Or Adam Morrison?
Or Marcus Williams?
April 15th, 1PM Update:
-Added more declarations:
Thabeet
Teague
Dar Tucker
Dwayne Collins
-Added a tentative 2010 starting lineup
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or John Wall. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
john wall or RR
lets do it!
make a trade for top 3 pick (since top 3 will be BG, JW, RR)…maybe…
maggs + 7th pick for top 3 pick :) or wright/belli/cj
if we can get RR, JW, or BG…we are set for many years!
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Anyone know how salary matching works with draft picks?
I’m pretty sure that trades (unless there’s a trade exception) have to have matching total salaries within 25% of one another. Is this true in the offseason?
I’m thinking specifically about Jamal Crawford.
Since it’s likely he’ll opt-in b/c he’d probably make more money that way, meaning he’ll be owed like $9 million for the next two years, how can we get rid of him and get value in return? Don Nelson told him and everyone else if he did opt-in that the team would try to trade him. Let’s assume he opts in and we try to trade him. Can we straight-up trade him for a pick? Can we combine a pick with a player or two to get back picks or players? Would we need to be within 25%?
The “matching withing 25%” is a simplification (and sometimes a rather misleading one) of the actual rule. A team over the cap cannot acquire more than 125% +$100k of the salary they send out. There is no minimum that a team must receive though. The ‘matching’ part is just a product of the fact that most trades involve two teams over the cap, thus neither team can send out too much more than the other, else one team wouldn’t have the room within the guidelines to receive the salary.
Once the draft order is set, first round picks have a salary attached to them equal to the salary assigned to that draft slot.
If Crawford opts out, we can’t trade him, and we can’t trade him before he makes the decision either. We have to treat him like a free agent (and they can’t be traded) until he either opts out (when he becomes a free agent and we can’t trade him) or either the deadline to opt out passes (after the draft) or he puts it in writing that he won’t opt out.
If Nellie told Crawford that if he opted out they’d try to trade him, then Nellie told him something that violates the collective bargaining agreement. Wouldn’t be the first time that I heard Nellie say something that wasn’t possible either. (Nellie was equally confused about how the traded player exception could and couldn’t be used.)
You think it’s likely Crawford will opt out? That makes you a minor voice around here. Most seem to think (and I agree) that given the cap realities for most teams, the push for many to clear space for the 2010 market run, and the economic downturn that he’s unlikely to get a better deal than what he has and opting out would be a terrible financial move for him.
If he opts out, good for him, but we get nothing back save the cap relief by having him off the books. That, frankly, is enough to make me want him to opt out, unlikely as I think it is.
Thanks for the clarification on the trading %s and rules.
I think you misread what I wrote about Crawford. The opting in / out thing you got inversed. I used the term “opt-in” and I think you thought I wrote “opt-out.” I agree that it’s highly unlikely he’ll opt out – bad financial decision, especially in this market. It’d be great if he did, though. That’s a lot of cap space over the next two years.
let grab Rubio
He is the pg we need. And I see him as the spanish steve nash.
by warriorfan4life on Apr 16, 2009 3:33 AM PDT reply actions
Let's grab LeBron
He’s the franchise player we need. I see him as … well, LeBron.
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 16, 2009 7:13 AM PDT up reply actions
yea let do that.
haha….hell let go back draft kobe instead of Todd Fuller. lol
by warriorfan4life on Apr 23, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think the folks in Colorado care who the Nuggets drafted
They still hate therapist.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
AB1=TK
by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 24, 2009 6:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Last nights game illustrated just how bad we need a real PG.
Three 24 second violations? That’s terrible.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
My take on Ricky
I’ve been living in Madrid, Spain for the last 8 years. On TV I’ve seen Rubio play at least 10 times this year, plus the Olympics, Euroleague, etc. He is usually the most exciting player on the court.
He’s probably around 6’4 now, lean but wiry. He’s not the fastest guy on the court, but he’s really quick, especially laterally. Anyone who knocks his defense doesn’t know what they’re talking about. He always tries to stay in front of his man, fights over screens, and is a great help defender. He gets more clean picks than anyone else in the Spanish ACB and always seems to find his way into the passing lanes at the right moment.
On the offensive side, he is a bit of a streaky shooter sometimes, but it seems he’s got range, even if it’s not consistent yet. He doesn’t always beat his man off the dribble although he doesn’t seem to have any problem getting to the basket even if it’s in and around 3 defenders. He’s got an excellent touch when he gets inside and has made some insane Montaesque shots in traffic. Where he excels most though is in his passing ability. He’s great on the pick and roll and when he had Rudy as a team mate he was constantly lofting pretty ally-oop passes to Fernandez. Crosscourt, full court, in traffic he’s probably one the best passers in the world now.
Finally, he’s a mature 18 year-old. He’s been playing pro ball for 4 years now in what’s arguably the best league in the world after the Association. He’s got great basketball smarts and court vision; he’s gritty, strong and a fierce competitor. I don’t know if he’s the second coming of Nash, Magic or the Pistol, but he is a guy who should make a name for himself in the NBA. The kid’s ready
by miguelito on Apr 16, 2009 8:54 AM PDT reply actions 5 recs
Instant REC.
Great stuff, Miguelito. Thanks for that.
Fingers and toes crossed, rosary beads out…
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 16, 2009 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Dude
You should know better than to start double crossing. Uncross those toes!
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 16, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
great post
love to hear the perspective of someone who gets to watch the guy regularly. i’m surprised to hear your take on his D, mainly that it’s pretty good. if that’s the case this guy becomes a lot more valuable. his passing is insane
Good post
But I’ve been reading that his lateral quickness is not as good as you mentioned.
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or John Wall. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
I suspect that most of the people who write about many of the HS and overseas players haven’t seen much more than a highlight reel, if that. I suspect that someone reads something, then writes it and posts it on another site. It gets repeated over and over even if it’s just an echo of the same original opinion, whether or not there was any validity in it.
Yea, it's an echo
But most of the places where I’ve read or heard it was on sites or broadcasting stations that have the real tools to evaluate.
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or John Wall. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
wait, are you saying
that 500 different scouts didn’t really watch Anthony Randolph’s entire career at LSU and all come to the conclusion that he projected to be an NBA 3? Do you mean to say a handful of people saw a highlight reel of him making some midrange jumpers and his Tayshaun Prince body type and jumped to that conclusion and then spread it all over the internet? You’re crazy.
Thing A
Wow! A report from someone who has actually seen significantly more than a youtube highlight that doesn’t just repeat what the parroting ‘draft sites’ (misre-)present?
I dunno. That’s getting awfully close to something actually useful and informative.
(But seriously, thanks quite a bit. Nice to get some real information.)
+1
even though I’m a huge fan, I doubt any of the rest of us had seen anything more than a couple Olympic games and a couple youtube videos.
Thing A
i got a q
calderon, rudy fernandez etc… all spanish players whove come here recently who he’s played with…. how does his athletism compare….
I think it's hard to be objective
or at least compare the ACB with the NBA. Theree are a lot of atheletic guys playing in Spain, but it’s not like the NBA.
Rubio’s nowhere near as atheletic as Rudy Fernandez and I doubt he would ever be able to dunk on Howard. Calderon’s a better PG now as well, but Ricky’s a close second on the Spanish national team.
It’s hard to say, athleticsm is difficult to define, isn’t it. He’s quick, coordinated, and plays under control, but he’s not a big leaper like Rudy Fernandez.
April 16th Update
-Gonzaga’s Austin Daye will enter name in NBA draft, will not hire agent
-Patrick Patterson to Enter NBA Draft
-Dominique Archie to declare for NBA draft
-Georgetown says Monroe to stay for sophomore year
-Updated our pick as 7th lottery seed is now confirmed.
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or John Wall. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
If Patterson goes back to College, that Kentucky team would be crazy stacked. Kind of reminds me of Wake Forest this year but with even higher touted preps. Wall, Henry and Cousins?! Whoa.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
anyone follow Louisville's Terrence Willliams?
Nelson himself might have mentioned him—he was nurtured by pitino as a point forward, defends guards and wings, handles better than many college point guards, runs the break, and has developed dr.j style dunks for years (in the mcd. high school dunk contest, I think, it’s on youtube as are many other highlight dunks). They might have to trade to get down to the third or fourth spot if they want to be sure of getting him, though few mock drafts have him that high (yet). Someone like him would play the two, share the ball handling, share defending the tough perimeter players with Jackson or the point guards too big for ellis to handle.
an espn article about williams
being the point forward and how nellie ‘invented the position’ linked them. Nellie said i dont know ihm, but i’ll look for him. Nellie also asked, how tall is he?
I’d take williams but id trade down. Williams at 12-18 is much better than jeff teague willie warren whoeer at 7
I doubt very, very much that Williams would go 4th or 5th overall. 7 is even a stretch. I’d say his lottery range is 9-14.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
rubio
the truth of the matter is, we all need to curb our expectations. Hes still only 18. If we got him i’d be esctatic but he wont make us signifcantly better next year. but maybe in 3-4 years him + randolph could be an allstar combo
He is only 18 and
will need time for adjustment to the intensity of the NBA. He only plays 21 minutes a game right now and I imagine he’ll play about that next season or maybe a bit more depending on who drafts him.
He’ll really help any team that plays with a lot of movement on offense. In that sense he could make the Warriors better. What I like about his game is that he seems to always be playing in the flow of the game and doesn’t force things too much.
Still, even if the Warriors get lucky and land him, I’m not totally sure he’d be the starting PG on opening night. One thing I am fairly sure of though, is that he’d be a significant upgrade over CJ, and that’s no disrespect to Watson as he’s been playing really well as of late.
I wouldn’t take it as disrespect. It’s nice that CJ got his 11 assists, I didn’t watch a majority of the game last night, but were most of his assists on kick outs to jumpshooters like Morrow and Azuibuike? That would be an easy way to pad stats. Anyway…
I’ve always seen CJ as an undersized SG. He only looks like a PG because of his height. I’ve never been impressed with his handles, or his passing. Something that he doesn’t have, and may never have (if you believe PG’s are born, not made) is vision. He doesn’t have that “How Did He See Him?!” vision that a CP3 has or Kidd has. And in no way am i comparing CJ to CP3 or JKidd, it’s just that even PG’s with half of Kidd’s ability have shown better court vision than CJ.
That’s why I feel we need to invest in a PG in this up-coming draft, whether it be Rubio, Lawson, Maynor, Jennings, Teague, Warren, Evans….
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
Agreed…but not all those guys are “real” PGs either. Warren certainly isn’t, anyway. In a pinch, I’d take Lawson and Jennings, probably in that order, if they were available…
If no miracle happens......
Then I like the stength,passing,defense,speed of……….TY LAWSON….am I the only one who feels this way?…..not worried about his height….strong and fast a fast bull with court vision.
by Only In Fairfax on Apr 16, 2009 5:30 PM PDT reply actions
Ricky Rubio would be great, but...
Perhaps it’s time to talk a bit more about players that will actually, y’know, be available at 7. Sure, we could trade up, or trade down, or trade out, but the most likely scenario is that we keep the pick.
NBADraft.net has us picking Earl Clark. I only caught a couple of Louisville’s games, during the tournament, and while “future superstar” was not the immediate impression I got, he seems like a solid player that could fit well into Nellie’s system. He’s got good size and a fairly NBA-ready body (a welcome change), rebounds well for his position (a little more than 9 per 36 minutes), looked to have good court awareness, some range on his shot, and a decent turnaround jumper from the post. Nellie would probably prefer to play him at PF, but I like the idea of Clark at the 3, with Jack at the 2 and Randy at the 4. His game is more complimentary to the other guys than Maggette’s, and he might be a better passer than Buike—though I didn’t see much of this in the games I watched. He didn’t make many mistakes, at least. Anybody else watch Clark play?
Ricky Rubio would be great, but…
Perhaps it’s time to talk a bit more about players that will actually, y’know, be available at 7.
We have to get all of our offseason fantasies out before the night of the lottery. =P
You’re right though. We need to start taking a look at some of the guys that might be on the board when we will likely pick. The problem is that most of those guys aren’t all that inspiring…
Thing 2
You think that’s a down? How about the fact that we’ve got a better chance of picking #8 than we do of picking in the top 3? (Yes, it’s true. We are not guaranteed the 7th pick).
yea, I know, I was actually just talking about that with sleepy in another thread. The chances of us getting a pick lower than 7 are better than the odds we land in the top 3 I think.
Thing A
power of positive thought
We won’t get worse than the 7th!
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
Our new assistant coach is a US Senator? Cool!
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 17, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
yes he is! i don’t even love franken, but after norm coleman (a total scumbag by all accounts, including a few friends of mine who met him at the restaurant they work at and felt uncomfortable and were spoken to like children with voting rights), i’m just excited to have a senator in mn who doesn’t act like the long lost quimby brother.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
i don’t even love franken, but after norm coleman (a total scumbag by all accounts
Like I said, I stopped caring about that whole situation months ago, but when I was paying attention my main thought was always-“these are the two best candidates MN can come up with?!”
Thing A
not exactly the strongest ballot. there was some consideration when i was in the voting booth of just leavng the senator section blank, but i guess for once, my vote did something. one of the first times i voted for a winner in an election in my entire life. i was also pumped that the bill for dedicating funds to the arts and enviroment passed, but think the rest of my ballot was an 0’fer. the moral of the story: if you are running for office, you don’t want my vote.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
wait!
what have we done? everyone stop talking before we have another GSoM political thread!
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
yea
I figure that one was floated out there for me. Honestly, I stopped paying attention to that whole mess. Franken seems like more than a bit of a tool, but I’m fine with just seating him already if it means I never have to hear Keith Olbermann make another attempt at a joke about it.
Thing A
Ok...
but only cause we can’t get this guy
Thing 2
by olympicmike on Apr 17, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
JOHN WALL
is not entering the draft :(
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Ricky Rubio will be a back up here
Too skinny, his game cant translate over, will be intimidated on a nightly basis. This draft blows… but I guess if we HAD to make a pick, we should grab a pitt bull that should be available late in the top 10…..Tyler Hansborough baby.
BRING THE WHITE HYPE
sooo… ricky rubio’s game won’t translate, but tyler hansborough’s worthy of a top 10 pick? could you give a single reason beyond “too skinny” as to why rubio won’t be able to play in the nba? skinny seems to work out just fine for guys like kg, chris bosh, steve nash, monta ellis, tony parker, etc… why’s rubio different?
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Updated List again Ladies
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or John Wall. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
Thanks, dude
And nice formatting, too. How do you do that?
For some reason lately I’ve been feeling DeRozan…
• Freakish athlete
• Long enough at 6’7" to guard SFs
• Excellent rebounder for his position (over 6 per 36 minutes as a frosh)
• Very efficient from the floor for his position (52% fg as a frosh)
• Highly touted HS prospect who slipped because of a slow start, but seemed to put things together towards the end of the season
• As a swing, might be undervalued by teams unclear on the “BPA” concept
Also, you gotta love Draftexpress’s assessment: “Best case Gerald Green / Worst case Rodney Carney.” Maybe the absolute worstest case is Scottie Pippen?
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 17, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
ok, now i can get a little more excited about that possibility. i just remember being unimpressed at the start of the season with him (as hopefully a few opposing gms were) and just sort of laughing when i saw that comparison and assumed that the scouting reports i read were just derozan coasting on reputation. i guess he’s another possibility that i might not be upset about.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I copy and pasted haha
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or John Wall. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
DeRozan looks solid
But I find Clark to be the more intriguing 3.
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or John Wall. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
The Warriors will land the #1 pick in the draft.
Here’s why:
2008 – Chicago – 8th slot – #1 pick
2007 – Portland – 6th slot – #1 pick
2006 – Toronto – 5th slot – #1 pick
2005 – Milwaukee – 6th slot – #1 pick
If you take the average of 8, 6, 5, and 6, you get 6.5. 6.5 rounds up to 7, which is the slot we’re at. Therefore, the Warriors WILL GET #1.
The only real concern is… Blake Griffin or Ricky Rubio???
I say we draft Blake Griffin, and trade Crawford+Wright for Hinrich.
Can’t wait till we win that lottery..
"We Deserve"
The average of 8,6,5, and 6
… is 6.25, which rounds down to 6. :,-(
On the other hand, #7 is totally due!!! :-)
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 19, 2009 5:16 AM PDT up reply actions
BUT
6.25 rounds up to 6.5, which rounds up to 7! AND the draft lottery works just like “the price is right”, it’s the slot that’s closest to the average of the last four years without going over; once again, that’s the 7 slot.
- pick, here we come!
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
exactly
Warriors, come on down!
"We Deserve"
The Youtube clip of the guy "guessing" 420 on all his bids is classic.
And about appropriate come tomorrow.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
D'oh!
Fortunately, in probability, there’s no such thing as being “due.” ;-) The Queens have to take their 250 pingpong balls out of 1,000 and get in line with everybody else.
What always amazes me about the lotto is how unbelievably significant it is compared to all the other crap we spend our time discussing in here. Cleveland got #1 in the LeBron year — that single momentary pingpong event has had more influence on the current NBA landscape than any of the thousands of trades and acquisitions, both hypothetical and real, that get bandied about in the blogosphere every day.
If the Ws luck into Rubio or Griffin, and either of them blow up into a bona fide Top 10 NBA stud, that basically outweighs all the games the team has played, and all moves the FO has made, both good and bad, over the past few years. Somehow it just doesn’t seem fair, even if it is the least unfair way of determining who gets the top picks.
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 19, 2009 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Haha
Yeah, that would be kind of a waste of plastic, right? Highly unsustainable. I did have to check wikipedia to remind myself exactly how it’s done:
To determine the winner, fourteen ping pong balls numbered 1–14 are placed in a standard lottery machine and four balls are randomly selected from the lot. Just as in most traditional lotteries, the order in which the numbers are drawn is not important …. [snip] That is, the total of 24,024 (14! / 10!, or 14×13×12x11) possible permutations is reduced by a factor of 24, to 1,001 combinations. Of these, 1 outcome is disregarded and 1,000 outcomes are distributed among the 14 non-playoff NBA teams. The combination 11-12-13-14 (in any order that those numbers are drawn) is not assigned and it is ignored if drawn; this has never occurred in practice.
So yes, I should have said, “Kings have take their 250 pingpong ball combinations out of 1,001 and get in line.”
I kinda wish that in the spirit of a lottery they did something totally random and fun with that 1,001th combo — like, I dunno, give the NBA champion the pick, or give the Warriors LeBron…
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 20, 2009 1:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Can you trade a draft pick before the lotto order's determined?
I’m not suggesting it, just curious. (i.e. could we trade the pick nowish?) How would the trade deadline affect this?)
i think so, teams do offer up protected picks before the lottery all the time, so i don’t see why a team couldn’t offer up an unprotected pick right now, even if it would be kind of dumb.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
well the trade deadline last until after the last postseason game right? At that point the lottery order has already been set, so no we can’t trade nowish. Its not a bad thought though. Trading for more ping-pong balls would be an interesting idea for the NBA to consider. It could make the lottery a whole lot more entertaining if, for example, we could send Belinelli to Toronto for all their ping pong balls (or number combinations). Toronto still gets to keep their pick, but they are locked in at 9 or lower, while we increase our odds of getting the top pick by 1.3%. Or we could send Belinelli/Monta/Crawford/Wright and all our ping pong balls to Toronto for Bosh and Banks and be locked in at 7 or lower.
Thing A
oh, oops. forgot about that “trade deadline” business…
i’d be totally down for the option to trade for ping-pong balls, but then you’ve got the issue with the deadline again. we couldn’t trade marco for ping pong balls now, because of the trade deadline and if we did it during the season, toronto could somehow make a run to the playoffs and we’d get nothing. it would need to include provisions like “if toronto has less than x percent odds at the #1 pick, the deal gets pushed back a year, and so on until it works out” that’s sort of a hassle that i don’t assume the league would get behind.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
wait
did you mean that we could make deals like that right now (in this hypothetical rule change)? because if the nba allowed trades between teams out of postseason contention before the draft lottery, then that could work. it’s still not something i see happening, but it’s kind of cool to think about.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
No I’m fairly certain we can’t make those type of deals now, I’m suggesting it would be cool if we could.
Thing A
botched the wording a second time: in this hypothetical scenario in which you could trade for lotto odds, could teams make trades after they were done playing for the season, but before the lottery? if not you end up with situations like the one i described a couple posts up, if so, that would be a cool thing for the nba to consider.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
yea, trade AFTER the season ends so you know what your odds are, but BEFORE the actual lottery. It would probably require pushing the lottery back to after the NBA Finals are over.
Thing A
maybe not. it would be kind of cool to give the teams who were already done playing a head start in the trading market. once you’re done for the year, you’re allowed to make trades, including, but not limited to trades for lotto balls. they should probably push the lottery back until after the first round in that situation, but it would be a cool concept to try no matter when the lottery took place.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Rubio officially declares
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or John Wall. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
the next important announcement will be:
“and picking seventh in this year’s draft, the golden state warriors.” nellie is going to cry.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
With the 7th Pick in the 2009 NBA Draft
The Golden State Warriors select, Brandon Jennings, out of Italy. or
The Golden State Warriors select, Ty Lawson, out of North Carolina
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or John Wall. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
“the golden state warriors select: brandon jennings” cap’n hack cries.
“the golden state warriors select: ty lawson” everyone is indifferent.
i think i have a much stronger distaste for jennings than most people, but i do not want to waste the 7 pick on the next sebastian telfair. ew.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
+1
I didn’t want to be the first to compare Jennings to Telfair as I’ve only seen youtube clips of him…..but it was definitely the first comparison that jumped into my head.
Thing A
Uhh unless you're Nostradamus.
Then, I don’t think you can count him out yet. He was the consensus Freshman prospect last year, on 2 of the 3 major College trackers (Rivals, ESPN, and Scouts Inc), in contrast John Wall was only 1st on 1 of those lists while Telfair didn’t make 1st on any of the top 3. Jennings also won 3 or 4 PotTY awards. BJ’s stint in Italy gave him valuable interest and a lesson in maturity.
Lastly, AR was my pick last year and I think GSoM was split on the pick citing lankiness and him being a “project” player, yet most of GSoM now love the player.
So having a #1 prospect fall to #7 would be great value considering his resume and considering he may be the BPA, but also a BPA of Need.
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or John Wall. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
Oh and anyone think I should use this new Rally Cry?!
Give me a BJ!
LOL
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or John Wall. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
Good foresight.
I don’t remember anyone thinking we’d take Randolph before he actually was the last one left at the end of the lottery.
I remember going into the day of the draft thinking we’d draft one of: Jason Thompson, Darell Arthur, Donte Greene or Mareese Speights. But once everyone else passed on Randolph I figured we’d take the BPA, and we did.
I don’t want to comment on Jennings since i’ve only watched clips of him online, but it seems to me that he relies on his jumpshot a lot. This wouldn’t be too bad if he could hit at a decent rate, which I don’t think he did. Anyway, I was just thinking that if Nellie were to coach him, i’d suspect a very short leash like was the case with Randolph. I can just imagine the moment Jennings launches a contested 3Pt shot with 20 seconds left on the shot clock Nellie blows a gasket and shouts “You really don’t want to F&$*#N play do you?!”
If Jennings can respond well to the Nellie treatment (like Randolph, jury still out on Marco and Wright), I think we could have a very intriguing young PG prospect. I don’t think anyone questions Jennings’ playmaking ability, he’s a high risk/high reward player imo. The biggest factor to if he’ll succeed is going to be his outside shot. He’ll either need to shoot more efficiently, or take the ball to the hole more often and utilize his great athleticism.
Throwing it out there, Comparison: Mike Conley?? Anyone see it?
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I don’t remember anyone thinking we’d take Randolph before he actually was the last one left at the end of the lottery.
Probably because he was projected to be a top 6 pick. I brought his name up early in the pre-draft discussions and the general consensus was that it wasn’t even worth considering because he’d be long gone. I don’t remember it ever being discussed again until much closer to draft day and I don’t remember anyone being interested in him when his stock was plummeting so quickly.
Thing A
Yea, the days before the draft I was getting excited.
I was in the SacTown area and the news and papers were telling me that Sac Town wanted Jason Thompson over AR, I remember knowing that besides Sac there was another team that liked AR, but had dropped on their board. Then came draft day, the second I saw Thompson ringed up for Sac I knew that AR to the warriors would’ve been a definite possibility. One of the best draft days I’ve had in awhile.
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or John Wall. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
Comparison: Mike Conley?? Anyone see it?
Yea I can see that…..from youtube clips. Has anyone watched any of this guys games? I don’t even know what kind of a crazy channel you’d have to get to be able to watch those games, but some draft junkie here must have seen a game or two online, right?
Thing A
i bet none of us being able to watch his games are a big part of the great divide on jennings. some people hear about his strengths and drool, others (like myself) hear about his weaknesses and recoil. i bet we’d still look at him as a high risk/high reward guy if we could watch his games, but i’d assume the gap between his potential greatness and his potential failings wouldn’t look so big.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I have seen 2 of his games
One was on NBA TV and the other was streamed.
First game was vs Ujinca or something in Early March, that was on NBA TV. He played a good 30 minutes, he was the leading scorer with 16ish and had 2 nice dimes and 2 steals. I’m pretty sure he had a turnover or 2 as well as a nasty block. From what I saw was he was QUICK, maybe as quick as Lawson is, his change of direction was Monta-esque and his J’s were smooth. His 3’s were pretty bad that game though as he took several, but only made 1.
The last one was vs Bella. I didn’t watch alot of it because it was an Italian match and the announcers weren’t speaking English. Needless to say he did look great when he took it to the hole and at the end of the game he ended with his 1st and I assume only double double of the season, something around the lines of 14 points and 10 steals.
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or John Wall. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
Yea pretty insane
They weren’t even in the press much.
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or John Wall. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
Yea, I think a Nellie treatment on BJ would help alot, but he got that in the Euroleague already, leading me to believe that his maturity has improved and so has his decision making.
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or John Wall. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
Woops meant experience not interest
And no it’s not because its 4/20.
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or John Wall. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
the scouting reports on the guy terrify me. a flashy, inefficient scorer, poor defender, poor rebounder, who isn’t big enough to stop the bleeding defensively next to monta. i just don’t like it. he’s skilled and a creative player who might be able to make a name for himself, but he’s a big risk. at the 7, i’d pass.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
honestly
I wouldn’t totally dismiss Telfair yet either. Billups was a flashy young scoring PG who bounced around a little before really breaking out. I’m just saying Jennings seems extremely risky and his flaws seem very similar to those that have kept Telfair from being very good. Oh and he doesn’t seem like a great fit with this team (with Monta). I don’t know though, like I’ve said, I’ve only seen youtube clips of him.
Thing A
Maybe that’s his low then: Sebastian Telfair,
High: Poor man’s Kevin Johnson
Mid: Mike Conley/TJ Ford (can run a team as a starter, but has some weaknesses).
I really regret the Warriors not landing Billiups. To me he could’ve been our missing piece. Weren’t there some rumors after the fact he got traded that the Warriors were in talk with the Pistons? Or was that just the Tayshaun Prince for Jack supposed trade. I remember hearing something like Baron for Chauncey and change.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
Billups trade
I don’t think we could’ve come near what Denver gave them anyway: nationwide fan favorite Allen Iverson and his $22mil expiring contract
"We Deserve"
The difference between Billups and Telfair
Is size- Billups always had defensive potential because he’s’ not tiny like Bassy.
That said, I love Telfair as a Jarrett Jack level PG, meaning that he comes off the bench, but is a more than capable starter for short periods of time and leads to fans of the team complaining endlessly that he should get more burn.
(this is also exactly the same niche I see for Mr. Ty Lawson)
OR...
staying with the PG theme…
The Golden State Warrios select, Jrue Holliday, UCLA
The Golden State Warrios select, Eric Maynor, Virginia Commonwealth
going all in for rubio
our pick with any of our lottery picks the past 2 drafts and another future first rounder plus any of our vets for this kid.
my code name is "kelenna bahongpuki"
by VonteegoCummings on Apr 20, 2009 10:28 PM PDT reply actions
That is totally absurd
Giving up Randolph + anything for this kid, or anyone else in this draft, would be a HUGE mistake.
Randolph’s a keeper, no matter what, IMO.
I'm surprised there's no talk of John Wall potentially entering the draft
this year because of a loophole since he’s a 5th year HS senior. #1 HS prospect in the nation. Good size point guard 6’3-6’4 with great handles, good court vision, ridiculously quick first step and freakish athleticism. His biggest downside is that he doesn’t have a developed shot yet but his form is solid. While I’m a bigger fan of Rubio’s game, this kid should definitely be considered too should he enter this year.
Don’t eliminate the Wall-to-NBA talk just yet
According to the age-limit rule, an American-born player can be eligible for the draft if the player is at least 19 years old during the calendar year of the draft, plus one NBA season removed from his high school graduation or one NBA season removed from the date on which he should’ve graduated high school. Nobody is disputing that Wall is already 19, and sources have confirmed to CBSSports.com that he began high school in August 2004, meaning Wall should’ve graduated in May 2008, i.e., before this NBA season began. In other words, if Wall applied for the draft the NBA might really have to approve his application, and even if the organization initially fought Wall’s inclusion industry sources believe there isn’t a decent attorney who couldn’t win a lawsuit based on the ambiguity of the rule.
b/c he said he's committing to college
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Another update ladies.
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or John Wall. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
John Wall
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR8NSQllaVQ
There’s 0% chance he’s entering the 2009 NBA draft.
"We Deserve"
Ater Majok Anyone?
UConn Frosh coming out early, not hiring an agent.
Kid is a former refugee from Africa.
Any UConn Fans out there with info?
I’d bet he withdraws his name and comes back. ESPN doesn’t even have him listed under UConn on the drafts page. (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/school?draftyear=2009)
my bad – he’s listed there and they project him to go late second to undrafted. I do think he’ll withdraw, though, and try to be the man now that Thabeet’s gone down low.
different situatiion?
not sure his decision is tied to Thabeet at all … there were questions about his recruiting, and potential ineligibility raised on foxsports.com … I also wonder (wonder – as in no hard info) whether his family situation and the fact that this is a thin draft might also have fueled an early entry on his part
2 names
1) Craig Brackins. 6-10 230 can shoot out side, score inside, rebound and put up great numbers while constantly being double teamed all year. Most under-rated player in the draft. My guess is he’d punish any of the bigs in the projected lottery one-on-one, not named Griffin. Last I checked we were last in the league in Reb diff.
2) Eric Maynor. 6-3 175. Gots a sick handle, tall, fast, and looked great in the tourney. Almost beat UCLA. Lost by one point. Kids got the game. Can Create, get to the hole, shot the 3 at 36% (not bad). A little bit like…dare I say our local future HOFer….. GP.
Watch these guys stock raise as they go through the draft workouts.
There it is.
I'm on the Maynor bandwagon
that kid can play. he’s also a guy who I think could play solid D in the league – something the Warriors don’t have much of and something a lot of ther other top prospects don’t look they have the abilty to do
brackins will be available in the second round and might not even get drafted. let’s not rush to pull the trigger on him in the top ten. maynor (and holiday, since he’s come up) is a trade down situation. we shouldn’t just toss our top ten pick at one of those guys when trading down could still net us either and possibly help us ditch a bad contract or at least get something else of value. i don’t know enough about either of these guys to say that they are or aren’t top ten talents (though i doubt that they are), but there’s no reason to jump on either in the top ten when they’ll be available later.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I hear that ....
About defense. Holiday played solid defense this year. I hope they consider him too.
trade down?
This discussion will be more relavant as we get closer to the draft and get a more realistic ranking system. If they’re available, as now projected later then yes, trade down. But, we don’t know that will be the case as pre draft workouts are yet to occur. I’ll bet Brackins raises to the top 10 when put threw the camps. Kinda like thompson showed up last year out of left field.
His profile doesn’t say much to his atheleticism but you tube some of his dunks in practice. He’s got pretty good hops for his size.
Grabtree!
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