Meeting with Robert Rowell - 8th APR 2009
Tonight I and some other season ticket holders that had some “concerns” about this year, the team and the coaching got to meet Robert Rowell before the Timberwolves game and he spent a good ¾ of an hour answering some pretty frank questions.
First and foremost I have to say, he didn’t dodge one question, was extremely honest and took genuine interest in the points raised. I will give you some of the content, some of which many of you are going to be quite surprised at.
RR made it very clear he does not read newspapers or blogs as more often than not, people create complete fiction just to try and grab some headlines. I don’t think anyone in the room had any doubt who he was aiming this at, possibly a certain person writing for the Mercury News.
The first main topic of conversation was Baron Davis’s departure and the events that followed thereafter and fans were not happy at some of the signings and the fact that Baron was allowed to go. RR made it very clear that what was published in the newspapers was complete fabrication. He said Baron was never offered just a 3 year contract. He was in fact offered a 5 year contract that could have paid Baron a total based on performance of $75m USD. However the organisation had concern about his ability to see out a season and so the contract was broken into 3 parts. It was a guaranteed contract for 3 years with a certain number of games having to have been played in years 2 and 3 in order to trigger year 4, likewise performance in years 3 and 4 to trigger year 5. Had Baron been prepared to commit to that deal, he would have made $75m USD. He was also offered another option to opt in to his exisiting agreement that would have been worth an extra $17m USD. However HE chose to turn that down and go for a straight non-performance related deal with the Clipps, his choice. Personally I found that very interesting and I can understand why the organization was concerned about his fitness and it seems....so did Baron, which is why he went for the guaranteed lesser amount offered by the Clipps!
He went on to discuss other players that were let go. Again very honest and he said "the biggest regret he has on players that have left is the loss of J-Rich, in his personal opinion that deal should not have been done." This obviously led on to question as to “who” then is picking the “talent” as he calls it. He stated that there is a team that seeks talent and a team that coaches that talent and a team that manages the club. He explained that Don Nelson’s role is the coaching and while he is a very big fan of Nellies and his style of play, he felt some comments that were made to the press this year should have stayed within house; for example the Randolph discussions and the Crawford statement.
RR admits he likes Crawford, but at the moment it is clear a Crawford Ellis backcourt does not work and leaks defensive points like a sieve. However he made it very clear that Nellie had no business discussing the Crawford options to the media or be quite so vocal about discussions he had with Randolph. He did however state very clearly that Randolph was actually getting continually “outplayed” in every practice by Rob Kurz at the start of the year and he said something like, “Kurz...Rob Kurz....can you believe that, he should never have been outplayed by Rob, he simply was not working hard enough in practice and needed a kick in the butt”. He went on to describe that Nellie was right to treat him the way he did, however management did like what they saw in Randolph and Morrow and pushed a little to see those two players more on court. He believes both have great potential for this league and most importantly this organisation. It was clear to me that he was saying loud and clear that Randolph and Morrow are both key figures for the Warriors future that won’t be going anywhere.
This lead on to what changes are going to be made and whose fault were some of these bad player choices? He said...”well are you happy with 28 wins?” He mentioned that first and foremost he is a Golden State Warriors Fan and 28 wins simply is not good enough, but then no one expected the star player to go fall off a moped having signed a very nice contract and then lie to the organisation about the injury thereafter. He said, “How could we have seen that coming as an incident?” He was then pushed further on the Monta issue and whether the contract will be voided. He said “absolutely not, it’s in the past, the contract is not going to be voided and anyone who suggests otherwise is simply talking hot air, it’s NEVER going to happen, it was an extremely unfortunate event, but it is in the past, over.” He was then asked if changes are going to be made where will they be and is Monta the first choice for PG?
RR stated that he does not think that anyone has seen Monta play as a true PG yet, with a fully healthy team behind him. He believes that given the right players around him, he can actually do a good job at the PG. My interpretation of that is that Crawford might be an option to switch with Ellis on court i.e. off the bench and Morrow as the SG? Or possibly someone else in the SG position maybe Jackson? However, I wouldn’t be surprised if we made a move over the summer for another Vet that might take the place of Crawford and that could have a better playing style to complement Ellis and help develop his PG skills and no I don’t think that will be BD!! Maybe Kidd?
Questions were then asked of Jackson. He went on to describe that for all Jacks mistakes and moments when he is cold, he is one of the hardest working members on the team for Defence and this is one of the primary reasons why Nellie keeps him in the game so much as there just is not enough effort being made on D in other areas. He also pointed out that when jackson is on form he is an excitingplayer to watch and is a very dangerous weapon against teams when on fire.
He also went on to state that the “Centre” position is not even open for discussion, he believes it is the strongest it has been for decades and that Andris is VERY much part of this teams future. I heard his tone and saw the body language and he is either a very good poker player or he is genuinely keeping Biedrins in this club, no matter what. I got the impression that he is possibly a bigger fan of AB to stay at the club than anyone even more so than Ellis, Morrow and Randolph. He see's Andris "without doubt as a future All-Star", in his words. He stated that he wants to see the young guys develop more and Nelson will get this job done with them. He stated that even though the young guys who have been playing well together in the last few games, "they" as a unit are no way good enough or at the level expected by the organisation for this club to have opportunity to fight for playoff positions. So he said.... ”Yes we will have to make some changes”.
The way he was discussing the team, I think he was making it clear that Biedrins , Morrow, Randolph, (I think) Ellis, Turiaf, are all key pieces for this organisation next year most likely along with Jackson and probably Buike. Nobody else was really mentioned and therefore my read of that is that no one else’s position on the team is safe.
He said he understands that the fans have been unhappy with the situation this year but he also stated that the club felt this even more and the injuries have been like no other year. I have to say I was impressed with his responses and the manner in which he gave them as I truly believe his responses were genuine and he is very keen to make certain changes in the off season by whatever means to make this club a real contender in the West. Read into that what you will?
The conversation went on to Chris Mullin the relationship with coaching staff and the organisation at large. He mentioned the fact that he likes Chris Mullin a great deal and that it was him that brought CM back to the organisation and again he highlighted that a great deal of the “Internal War” that is supposedly going on, is again fabricated Horse crap by certain journalists. He stated that CM’s contract was not extended to simply see how some of the latest draft picks develop, following on from some not so good past performances. He made it very clear that the organisation is less than happy with a number of the recent draft picks (Like POB) that have simply been bad and there were a number of contracts made in the past that were also truly bad.
But he stated that they recognised that and the organisation has done everything in their power to rectify those past mistakes. He stated that there is the coaching staff, their focus is purely geared to the development of the players they are given. There is the “Talent” team whose job it is to go find the players and then the Management who have to justify the choices and have input where required if it is clear that certain choices are not delivering enough to the team, i.e the team is not winning and therefore may need to go.
I followed on from this with a question then about the current situation and rather than have to have injured players get suited up to simply make 8 players, could they not go and get a player like Hendrix who knows a lot of the plays to help fill a gap on a 10 day contract? He said there was no reason at all why they couldn't , but the coaching staff didn’t want to and preferred to run with the guys they have for the last few games.
The discussion then changed tack slightly and went on to season tickets, pricing, etc and that as a season ticket holder, it’s hard to see people coming in and sitting in considerably better seats AND having paid less than many season ticket holders for their seats further back.
He said... ”First thing I will say is, if you were in Club 200 this year YOU WERE SCREWED! this year you were completely screwed!” I kid you not, those were his exact words. He said, “unfortunately with the economy the way it went, they simply did not foresee the speed at which the economy was going to fail just as they could not foresee someone falling off a moped (which I thought was quite funny that he raised that again). But he said “as the President of a business, I have to make decisions that try to generate as much revenue as possible due to the ever increasing Salary base among other things that must be met, that means if seats are empty, we have to offer promotions to sell some of those seats, however that meant that certain season ticket holders got a rough deal”. He did go on to state that he believes the lower bowl is extremely good value for money versus other arenas and he will stand by that as they have compared pricing of the lower bowl to other arenas.
I then jumped in with follow up question as to how and why Club 200 season ticket holders were treated so poorly? I think I said something along the lines of “As you have said this is about running a business, you’re doing it, I’m doing it, so I understand that no one could have foreseen the crash in the economy or certain injuries however, it’s the reaction thereafter that I cannot understand.” I continued, “To me it is not rocket science to know that your very bread and butter income, comes from Season Ticket holders and as one of those Club 200 STH’s, we have received ZERO in the way of proper customer care, which means that if you have unhappy STH’s, they won’t renew and if so, you end up having to spend more money on marketing/advertising to replace those STH’s with new ones, when you could probably spend a great deal less to make those STH’s feel valued and especially when they see seats being sold for $8! Is it really that hard for someone to come up with the idea of maybe offering STH’s the chance to come to practices to meet the players, hold more events at the arena to meet the staff, have STH opportunities to meet the players after a game rather than just kids? Maybe offering free parking vouchers, free beer/food vouchers, huge discounts in the store....I said the list is truly endless at what could have been done and nothing was done, which in my personal opinion and experience in the field of sales and marketing was dire and beyond a joke. Add to that the fact that people have to wait sometimes a whole quarter to get a Burger and ‘my what pricey burgers’ they are too! Could it possibly be useful to have soft drinks, Popcorn, Pretzels and peanuts, cold items on carts, thus saving the stands for Beer and hot food? This would surely help reduce the lines?, In short I feel there was a definite DROP in customer care this year as compared to last year, which considering the price hikes, is why you have many people not wanting to renew tickets”.
His answer was a simple as this “ I have no answer for you, all your points are valid and very much taken onboard, what I can tell you is that I have to kick the backsides of those guys at the back of the room and there will be changes for next year. You have my apologies we simply did not do a good enough job this year for Club 200 season ticket holders but that will change”.
It was then pretty much 7.30 and game time and he wrapped up by saying that he truly appreciates every season ticket holder and as such whenever complaints are made they are read. But it is this organisations intention to continue to make changes to make this team better, but the young core and coaching staff will remain but that they will expect instant results next year and he hopes to be able to show fans next year that this year was a blip on the growth of the franchise and thus back to the playoffs next year.
And that as they say folks, is about as much as I can remember as I didn’t take in a digital recorder, so had to rely on the grey matter to remember!! It’s now 1.40am and my beds calls!
In conclusion, my overall impression of the guy I have to say has been changed considerably from that which is often portrayed in the media. I think he genuinely is doing what he can to ensure performance for the club, however in doing so, he has to pass responsibility to others to do their part and their job! Some players may not like that, but as he says, "this is a business first and foremost." However I do expect there to be quite a few changes to the roster, this is my guess and purely personal opinion, but I think that maybe trade talk for Bosh is unlikely, as I think Turiaf and Biedrins are set for next year. I think there is a chance Crawford might stay but only as a bench rotation for Ellis and whether he wants that or not remains to be seen? I also think Jackson, Randolph, Morrow are all set to return, my guess there could be question over Magette, Belinelli, Wright, Davidson, CJ possibly even Buike as maybe his stock value has increased considerably this year, but I hope we keep him. Rob Kurz....sorry but I think it’s bye bye Warriors for you sir! Oh and a certain Chris Mullin I would expect to announce that he will be joining somewhere else over the summer.
It was a fascinating evening and following on from my points, RR and I spoke very briefly as I left and he said he would be in touch to discuss certain issues further. I greatly appreciated the opportunity to have some valuable time with the guy and I am sure the other fans that were there around maybe 15-20 season ticket holders, also enjoyed chance to ask open questions and get answers straight from the top of the tree! We all then got the opportunity to watch the game from corporate suites; I could hear Ray just above me to the left! ;)
I hope and trust some of you find the thread above interesting and maybe there are at least one or two elements within it that you didn’t know before and some that “may” shed some light on possible changes over the summer, it will be interesting to come back to this article in September and see how accurate any of these thoughts/comments were.
Writing all this took my mind off a loss to the T-Wolves........sigh! Andris it was all your fault...you threw off the youngsters rhythm! ;)
Ends
BritWarriorGSW
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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good read
thanks for keeping us all informed.
any questions about maggs? sounds like they are going to try to move him and crawford + cj + belli + wright? (i hope)
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
I would actually like to have Maggette coming off the bench.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 9, 2009 7:27 AM PDT up reply actions
id rather trade him
while he’s worth something
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawk on Apr 9, 2009 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Great info, Brit
As with Nellie’s interviews, you gotta take a lot of what you’re getting with a huge grain of salt, but you can actually glean a lot from reading between the lines. I think your basic takes on the team’s plans going forward are probably pretty accurate. I mean, to the extent that they even have “plans”…
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 9, 2009 8:36 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Very good post Brit.
As LostHawk mentioned, thank you for keeping us informed and I appreciate you sharing your experience with the top dawg of the organization.
I loved your final question of the mistreatment of Club 200 STH’s. You really got him stuck and shook.
Just shows you that he needs to do all us loyal Warrior fans a huge favor and sell the freggin team to a basketball mind that truly cares about the fans and truly understands the business side but making the business side less priority.
That basketball mind should prioritize basketball decisions first, consider the fans second, and make business decisions last.
Yes, I know there is a lot more to it that I really don’t understand in running a sports organization which I am sure the business side of it controls all, but maintaining the mentality of the priority list I just mentioned would comfort any Warrior Fans’ minds without a doubt.
It absolutely disturbs me how he said, “this is a business first and foremost” which I already speculated he would say.
I’m sorry and I am sure he is a nice guy, but get into a different business and STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM THIS WARRIORS ORGANIZATION.
He has no business running the Warriors. We have way too many passionate and loyal fans to deserve this crap.
When Chris Mullin mentioned his appreciation for the fans, I truly believed his heart-felt sentiment for our relentless loyalties and knowledge of Warriors basketball.
When a Rowell or Cohan says they love Warrior fans, I truly believed their heart-felt sentiments for our money. (punk)
You have to be an absolute idiot for not having Rick Barry or Clifford Ray as part of the organization. You also have to be a freggin idiot to let Chris Mullin go.
That crap he said about Mullin’s decision as GM (VP or whatever the hell Mullin was) is on point, but keep in mind that Mullin was only a GM for a short period of time. If Chris Mullin’s resume showed he had experience as a GM for let’s say 37 years or so and made the decisions he has made, then yes… fire his arse, but I still strongly believe he didn’t deserve to be let go.
STH Warrior fans have been disrespected.
You don’t freggin bump up their renewing prices after one year. Bump up the prices to those who wanted season tickets after the 2007 playoffs and take care of those who have purchased before that.
I think all Warrior STH could ask for is keep the prices the same, you punk.
Gaught. I am so sick of being a Warrior fan.
[ throws thumbtacks at the world ]
Romes Mac Mojous
by ROMESdavidWOOD37 on Apr 9, 2009 8:43 AM PDT reply actions
thanks, very nice
Straight talk buys you a lot of leeway. Your summary has the air of reality about it. OTOH, although I understand this is a business, he must know his business is competing with other franchises who have no problem running at a loss. As long as that is the case, we still might hope for different ownership.
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
Awesome read
I’ll admit that I was one that demonized Rowell, but I get the feeling that he really thought about his responses in his talk with all of you (unless the guy rehearses spewing lies in front of a mirror every night).
Particularly interesting was the point about Baron. I still think he’s awesome, but one has to note that the concerns are quite valid when looking at how he’s performed in LA.
Rec'd
so we can look back this offseason and next season to see if RR will walk the walk. We’ll see whether or not his words were just lies to get people to renew season tix. Time will tell.
Great read though.
LeBron James? I'm the only Ty Crane.
Right, and Rowell has no reason to lie, at all ...
Sorry, look, I just don’t trust the guy.
it’s abundantly clear, for example, that the team is jerking around Mullin, so he doesn’t have any credibility. Zero credibility = no reason believe his story about BD, either.
“Injuries” are the oldest excuse in the book. Truth is that this team has had one significant injury this season: Monta. He wants to whine about Maggs? We’re a better team with Maggs off the floor.
genuinely dont think he was lying....
I am pretty confident he wouldnt state the contract offered to BD in so much detail if it was flatly untrue and if it came came across that he was whining then that was my mistake. He didnt whine at all about the injuries nor did he mention Maggs at all, but he commented that the team has had more injuries to players than he has ever known and that overall this team simply is not good enough to do what everyone in the organisation wants and that is to fight the likes of the Lakers deep inot the playoffs and to have a chance of a championship.
The thing that struck me most is the fact that I now dont doubt his actual passion to make this a better team, but he quite rightly said, it is not "his’ position to pick the team or potential players and those are roles best left to more experienced people.
I have been involved in enough negotiations in my business carreer to recognise when someone is coming out with the “right” answers just for answers sake. My read of him was, that he was telling the truth in his responses and he certainly didnt need to tell us some of the things that he did, in which case fair play to him.
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Apr 9, 2009 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Can't wait to hear BD's response.
That was a great read.
I don’t trust Rowell. Not having an answer for your question about Club 200 customer care is simply not directly addressing the question.
Like I’ve said before. It’s not the choices he makes, it is the way he goes about making them.
Clearly screwing over the STH’s was HIS fault. He doesn’t deserve his job if he didn’t know what was going on, and based on what he said it was a conscious decision. Perhaps he SHOULD read the forums and the newspapers. So basically he is saying that HE screwed YOU.
Some of his explanations do clear things up quite a bit, but I can’t shake the creepy feeling that makes me distrust him.
by Nuck Chorris on Apr 9, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
will be interesting to see if he follows up with me as he said he would...?
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Apr 9, 2009 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I spoke to a STH whose number he took down and said he would call back personally.
Hopefully you have better luck than he did.
“The thing that struck me most is the fact that I now dont doubt his actual passion to make this a better team, but he quite rightly said, it is not “his’ position to pick the team or potential players and those are roles best left to more experienced people.”
And yet by all accounts he was the one who took the lead on giving Steven Jackson that ginormous extension for absolutely no reason. I don’t know. He’s certainly saying a lot of the right things, it just doesn’t fit with so much else of what we’ve heard that it’s hard to believe he’s telling the unvarnished truth.
Thank you thank you thank you
That was a fantastic read. Plenty to digest for a while. Since you were there and we weren’t, we’ll have to trust your body language interpretations. Even still his answers sounded pretty genuine, especially if he’ll openly said he regretted losing JRich and that Club 200 members got screwed.
The Club 200 issue I can understand. Nobody say Monta riding a moped, nobody saw the economy going south. It’s like investing in stocks, and this season, the season ticket holders lost their investment. If the Warriors had made the playoffs or somehow made the #1 seed, and every local fan was clamoring for seats, then those ticket holders would have made a smart investment.
But the one that raised a question for me is regretting JRich. If he had kept JRich, how could he have afforded Monta and Biedrins? I thought trading JRich was mostly for money reasons. Hey, BritWarriorGSW, did RR ever explain his regret here?
Hahahaha, I thought it was funny that he said Kurz was beating AR in practice early in the season. I guess that’s another thing Kurz is useful for: being a measuring stick.
So much to digest, will have to reread again later. Thanks again, BritWarriorGSW. We don’t need no Tim Kamakazi.
lol ya
the kurz thing is pretty funny! basically saying kurz is the worst player on the team…and for randolph to have been getting beat by him in practice early on definitely showed he was not trying hard enough.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Regarding J-Rich...
I personally thought (and b0baBaLLa might have view on this too) that he was saying that trading J-Rich and getting Brandon Wright back in exchange was not good value for the Warriors, I also got the impression that he quite liked Matt Barnes as well.
But I think he tried to make it clear that these decisions are made by the “talent” team and thus I sensed he was pointing the finger slightly at them. This talent team is obviously more than just Chris Mullin and I think as a collective group, he feels they could have done a better job.
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Apr 9, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
JRICH was traded for Monta
If Jrich was still on the team, Monta would not have grown into the player he is today. He was moved to create space at the 2, but importantly as well, to ensure that we would be able to give Monta/Biedrins the money they want and deserved last year. One or both of them would have been impossible to resign, especially since I’m betting at the time we traded Jrich, we thought we were also going to have Baron for awhile and have to give him his money as well. Getting Brandan was almost just a bonus (a nice bonus), who has shown great talent and improvement this year, is a complete team player, and also the near perfect PF in Nelson’s system
I think it’ll be interesting to see what we do with Brandan(and Marco) this year. So far yes we have not gotten a good deal in terms of talent from that trade, but it’ll be interesting to see next year.
if we didnt trade jrich
we’d have let baron walk i’m sure and probably never signed maggette. I dont necessarily know that its a better team w/ jrich instead of mags.
good memory
Ah…I was wondering if there were any other GSOM members that went to that meeting last night. I now have a face to go with BritWarriorGSW. I was sitting in the very back. Everything you posted was spot on.
I went into the meeting not expecting to have much resolved, thinking he would be very general with his answers. I was pleasantly surprised with the level of detail he answered with, and how he spoke to us on a personal level. He stressed how the media fabricates things so they have something to write about. Maybe it was all just the media talking, but I have never seen it this bad before, and that was my biggest concern. There were just too many uncertainties with who was in charge, and how the relationships were between the players and the coach/mgmt. One lady pretty much summed it up when she described the team as dysfunctional. I don’t think there’s any doubt that the fans love the players and are loyal to them, but the foundation is the upper mgmt. They bring in the players and make all the personnel decisions. When you see so much uncertainty in the foundation, it’s hard to put your faith (and money) in the organization. His reply to that was basically not to trust what the media wrote. He knows what really is going on…the media and the fans don’t.
After meeting Rowell last nite, I do share the same feeling as Brit in that he does seem to have the passion to want to make the team better. Having the passion doesn’t translate into doing the right things though.
Hello mate and very glad you got to hear it all too.
I am sure I missed a few bits and pieces but I think I got most of it! :)
As to faces to names…Ray section in Club 200 is often the place to catch up with fellow GSOMers in game and in fact I thought I heard one section last night actually “chanting” proper English style footie chants which showed me that with just a few chanting in one small section, a whole arena chanting would be truly incrediblein that place. They were also the ones trying to start th Mexican wave arond the top section..
Anyway, glad you got to hear his comments first hand as well.
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Apr 9, 2009 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
As much as I think this guy is a fool
you kinda got to give it to the Warriors for the whole BD thing. They offered him a very reasonable contract (apparently) that would have protected their interests against the totally real threat of his body breaking down and/or motivation level totally falling off. Had Baron been genuinely interested in staying a Warrior, and if he really believed he could keep up his level of play, he would have taken this offer. The truth is probably somewhere in between Rowell and Kawakami, but after hearing this much detail I am inclined to think that RR actually has a better handle on things than I thought.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Great read and a rec
Crashing so hard after a few promising years, it’s good to see that RR seams as frustrated as us. I think it would do him a lot of good to hold Q & A sessions more often and not leave fans to read interpretations from the likes of TK et al.
One thing to keep in mind is that RR is a business man and sales is one of the things he does. It sounds like he was being up front but I’m sure he cant help but to paint a “I’m with you, I’m one of the guys” picture with what he was saying.
We will see what the Summer holds and know more of his “character” by next season.
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
Thanks for the recap
Great recap ol’ chap. Really appreciate the heads-up you gave me during the STH BBQ – this was actually a good little meet-up there and glad Rowell cleared up a few things.
Still, he had plenty of your normal marketing/PR answers in there, but it’s interesting about his concern for Club 200 STH’s like the both of us. I do like my experience with my seats, but mostly because of my amazing ticket usher (Lajuana) as some of you have already met.
However, I’m still confused on his decision about J-Rich and who actually made the call on that – if Mullin – could that be a main source for why there’s some regret there?
Another confusing part is that Baron Davis “apparently” agreed on a deal of some sort, AGREED (by various sources, not just Kawakami), and that confuses the hell outta me. Rowell could be hiding something too, but like he said just about Monta (and I agree), the past… is the past.
The marketing answer about Mullin… seems to suggest that the decision has already been made as well.
I’m surprised you didn’t bring a voice recorder with you though! Anyway, we’ll talk next game. Stop by my seats!
Golden State Warriors fan since 1984. The Filipino sensation!
When he refers to "the media"
You don’t think he’s talking about Tim “George Washington” Kawakami, do you? I call him GDubs because he “cannot tell a lie.” Please don’t burst my bubble.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 9, 2009 10:15 AM PDT reply actions
Good read brit...
I really liked your breakdown of the meeting but am still very apprenhensive in terms of trusting RR. I’m just so glad you brought up the STH aspect of things b/c I have season tix in the 200’s and it just sucked seeing new $8 ticket buyers every other game. I’m not sure what the Dubs plan on doing bout the situation (personally I think nothing b/c they are still making money) but I am glad you asked the question.
The one thing that sticks out in my mind is the fact that he said the DUBS are a business first. I know owners are in business to make money when they invest in a team but the value never comes to fruition until they sell the team. In the meantime they can run an organization into the ground and still make money off of it prime example Pittsburg Pirates and Kansas City Royals. So I guess I just don’t like that mentality b/c it allows for mediocrity because ultimately the only thing that matters is the bottom line and not putting a winning product out there. Overall though great post.
yes and no mate
Yes I think there will be changes to Club 200 and he hinted that with regards to catering etc, there will be an overhaul this summer, it’s just a shame they are not a little more open with their STH’s as this may then help decisionas to whether to renew or not.
I think the business first and foremost is more a personal reflection for him, i.e. HE is the President of the club and ultimately the buck stops with him if the organisation is shedding money like a long haried cat in the desert!
As part of that whole description I think he made it very clear that he expects results on the basketball side of things and as a business manager, if the team is not doing well, then it makes his role all the more difficult. Hence the hint at changes in this off-season in order to try to guarantee this team a well earned spot in the playoffs next year.
As with everything, time will tell!
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Apr 9, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Shared part of this with some friends on Facebook
Just to let you know, BritWarriorGSW.
no worries :) nothing fabricated so nothing to worry about!
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Apr 9, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
This is hands down one of the best posts I've ever read on GSOM...
Thanks for the info and shedding some light from an unbiased perspective. I always wondered what the real RR was like and whether the media’s portrayal was really on point. Hearing what you described definitely changes my perspective on him, but doesn’t necessarily mean I support him. As a fan, we don’t prioritize business first like he does and until that happens, the front office is going to continue to make decisions to make money rather than make contenders. The odd thing is, is that if a team wins, they bring in more money and attract all the bandwagon fans to come out. I hope that RR and CC realize this someday and change their way of thinking.
Had a chance now to ponder the Baron contract issue
And it seems likely that RR isn’t lying about Baron’s guaranteed 3 years + performance based year 4 and 5. As mentioned above by BritWarriorsGSW, that’s a LOT of details to make up. It would be instant egg in his face and credibility if someone proved this contract offer didn’t exist.
It makes the case that Baron was worried he wouldn’t hit his performance, or he simply wanted job security, which he got in Clipperland. In either case, I’m personally over Baron, and this just becomes another story to tell while huddled around a fake fireplace.
+1!
Thanks for the post and thank you for pressing Rowell on some frequently overlooked subtleties- especially club 200 info.
I got a sense he was quite sincere. Thanks again for the post- HUGE REC.
thanks for the info
But this in no way changes what I think about RR.
There is a huge lack of personal accountability. It seems like the whole conversation was him passing the blame on to other people; “his talent team”, “his coaching team”, “the people in the backroom”.
Of course he’s going to be honest and straightforward, we’re intelligent and obsessive Warriors fans; we know our stuff and we’d see through his lies and deception in an instant and he knows that.
At the end of the day, he was the head honcho who ruined our team this offseason. Anyone who gave the stamp of approval on Maggette’s monster contract, Jackson’s monster extension, and Nelson’s extension (which led to the alienation of Harrington and trade for a worse contract), all in the same offseason, clearly does not know what they are doing. Regardless if he knows how to lull his angry fans into a induced sense of sympathy for such an “unfortunate” year.
"We Deserve"
by YaHeard on Apr 9, 2009 12:51 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
not completely fair mate imho
As I said, I couldnt put every word down on paper nor can you truly gauge the tone from my report, but I got the sense that he was very much holding his hand in the air and saying “yes we made some bad choices”and as the President of the club that means the buck stops with him. So I think he did take some of the blame, but equally and quite rightly, you cannot blame everything on him.
The reason people are employed in their jobs, to either draft pick, contract negotiate, team select, etc, is because they are meant to be more knowledgeable in such matters.
Possibly the contracts made were not the best…but can you imagine if we didnt have Crawford and Maggette on the team this year, how much worse our record would probably have been? In which case he would have been the devil for not doing anything and then he is the devil for agreeing contracts with some of the few available players that would even want to come to the GSW’s.
That’s a tough position to be in when your no.1 star does a damn stupid thing right at the start of the season and someone you thought was going to sign i.e. BD, decides at the last minute to bail.
Certainly before this conversation, I had similar thoughts but I think even if you aso had chance to get time with him, you might see and understand a little more what control or input he had in many of the decisions and unless you were privy to those conversations at the time,it is almost impossible to know the hows and why’s as the media sure isnt telling the true story.
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Apr 9, 2009 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m in the boat that believes Crawford and Maggette haven’t really contributed that much to our team, and we’d be just as bad without them. If they have contributed at all, the extra couple of wins they’ve gotten this year are nothing compared to the overnight thrashing done to our future cap situation.
Plus we would still have $10mil in cap space to use. Plus we would have the large expiring contracts of Harrington/Jackson to trade away at next year’s trade deadline (which very coincidentally is right before the Summer of Free Agent Lebron James and the rest of the FA’s, when teams will be desperate to unload salary and quality players).
It doesn’t take much foresight to see these things, we all saw the mistakes they were making as they were making them.
I’ll trust your judgment if you’re saying he was being genuine and apologetic. But that doesn’t change the fact that he’s incompetent at his job.
"We Deserve"
understatement of the 08-09 season award goes to..
brit!
Possibly the contracts made were not the best
Totally appreciate the insight bgsw. That being said, I’m 100% on board w/Yaheard’s philosophy on this guy. RR has seemingly overnight developed excellent communication skills? bgsw you of all people should be the angriest at him, what with the club 200 fiasco and all. All it takes for you is “don’t worry be happy,” and everything is copacetic? I don’t know man. I don’t know if I believe RR in anything he says. Sure his bdiddy details were specific, but he had what like 9 months to make it up? That information would’ve been useful a while back. Or, just don’t divulge it all (which would’ve been my personal choice). Why would he go out of his way to address that right on the nose, except to pacify and pander to prospective investors? Way too many question (both in my post and in RR’s actions).
I think you’re letting him off easy.
**WE DESERVE**
"They can trade me," Bonds said. "I don't think they will, though. It's not like I want to be traded, man. I'm a Giant. I'm stuck here till the end."
Who says I am done sir! ;)
But if i was going to take this convrsation further as I hope to, then last night was not the time or place in front of others and staff members, to tear this guy a new a-hole. Yes I could have thrown my media guide at him and said “this treatment is disgusting and stormed off”, however, I have greater interest in pursuing this further and going guns blazing would not have been the correct strategy for last night.
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Apr 9, 2009 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I rec'd it
But what did you expect? The whole reasoning behind a meeting with the season ticket holders is to portray Rowell as (whether rightfully or not) in touch with the concerns of the people whose interests he is supposed to be serving. He’s not an idiot, he can’t risk alienating potential revenue. He’s not going to come up there and give you statement prepared answers, because that would come off as too insincere. HOWEVER, that does not mean that everything he said is necessarily true. Everything he said sounds like (to me) what he knows people want to hear (especially the J-Rich part, he knows Richardson was a giant fan favorite and probably wanted to distance himself from the business aspect of the decision by calling the whole thing a mistake).
And I’m not saying necessarily that he is lying. He could be telling the complete truth. But do not let the environment affect your perceptions of what he is saying. If he said the exact same thing in a press release to the media, the reaction to what he is saying would likely be different. The grassroots, one on one scenario he set up does not add validity to his words, though we may want to believe it does. In a room of angry season ticket holders, he’s not going to make it a battle, he needs their money. He’s going to try and let people feel that they are all in the same boat, to put himself on the fan’s side. Politicians do that all the time. At different meetings, they will say different things to appease the target audience. Just take that into account is all.
as I said..I simply reported what he said
But I am also pretty good at telling when someone is lying or not and yes there may have been some "spin’ thrown in, but in amongst all of what he said, there was, in my personal opinion an awful lot of truth told.
Healso noted that in the whole year he has issued TWO press releases yet there have been many more “reports” made. He advised that in order to see what he truly feels about something to read his press release as they dont come out often but in those he says what he feels from his side of the table. Which seems fair enough.
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Apr 9, 2009 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree, it’s definitely important to get Rowell’s side of the story. I just wouldn’t take his word over or under Kawakami’s. Unless we actually have firsthand information about the story, all we know about it is what other people tell us. Rowell and Kawakami both have agendas, so it is hard to believe that both are telling the truth as objectively as possible. Indeed, that their stories contrast so often indicates that at least (but not limited to) one of them is definitely expressing their subjective opinions. So, like I said, just take that into account.
But also, like I said, I rec’d it, because it is a very high quality fanpost.
ty sir!
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Apr 9, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Post of the year
I still don’t think he should be running this team but it was a good read. I’ve never seen a Rowell press conference or interview or even anything in the media in general so this is pretty big coming first hand from a fellow GSOMer.
Muchos Gracias
Thanks mate and de nada!
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Apr 9, 2009 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Jax Extension
Did anyone ask him directly about the Jax extension? Since Jax dealt directly with him on it and everyone and their mother seems to agree that the extension made no basketball sense whatsoever, and that it really hindered us at the deadline and this offseason to make a move, it would have seemed like a good idea to get his thoughts on it. I think I remember in the past RR saying that Jax has been the epitome of a team player and model citizen since coming here and he wanted to reward Jax for that. And I’m all for rewarding players for their loyalty, but it just seems this move really hindered our flexability and would like to hear RR’s response.
not that question... we only got 45 mins ;)
But on Jackson he seem to hint that the lack of Defense on the team is something that bothers him, but again he reemphasised he is not going to tell ellie how to do his job as he thinks Nellie is very good at it (Personally I think that is a sligt contradiction, due to the fact that if you think the defense is poor and the coach is not making a fast enough change on that….dont you get rid of him??)
So the point in relation to Jackson that he did make was that he was one of the hardest working playing defensively when given a key player to mark out of a game. In a team that is not strong on D, I guess he felt that deserved reward alng with the nethusiasm Jackson has for the club.
BUT…. that did not explain what negotiations with jackson were like and what did Jackson threaten to do if terms were not agreed? That I have no answer to, but these are the type of things I would like to see some of the Bay area journalists focussing more on.
I was fortunate to sit in on Nellies press conference following game 38 last year and even then I didnt think much of the quality of questions being asked by the “hacks” at the time. Hell, if given the chance I would gladly go and do a monthly interview wth RR and others and write up what was discussed as I think currently there is an information gap between the club and fans.
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Apr 9, 2009 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
however proof reading is a skill that must be learned more! apologies for typos! Less speed more checking
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Apr 9, 2009 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions
So........
Basically he just confirmed what I have been telling everyone here for 4 1/2 months…Thank you Britt for EASILY the BEST post here on Golden State of Mind in the last 3+ months.
So for all of you Robert Rowell haters, and people who STILL (LOL) think that Baron Davis should be on the team…. EAT IT.
haha suckas!!!!!!
I'm still a little reluctant to trust Robert Rowell...
I see him as just another part of the media that seems to have more first hand experience on the situations, but that still doesn’t mean he’s trustworthy. I guess we just have to wait til next season to see if he comes through with what he said. But all in all, GREAT GREAT GREAT post! One of the better ones I’ve ever read since being apart of this forum.
P.S. Anyone remember this article?
http://www.contracostatimes.com/sports/ci_11929138?nclick_check=1
There’s a part in this article that says that other organizations that deal with Rowell doesn’t think he’s exactly classy or professional. So again, don’t trust Rowell right away…
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
Dropping in for another analysis
So straight from the horse’s mouth, RR has told you guys that there is no more void issues with Monta. Did he mention when this decision was made? Did he mention whether this was communicated to Monta and/or his agent? It would be nice to know when (or if) Monta knows about this. Then if Monta goes into his grumpy moods, we can no longer blame the void issues.
No and yes
No he didnt mention when this decision was made, but yes Monta does/did know that the contract will not be voided, but again not sure when that was.
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Apr 9, 2009 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks Brit...
I really appreciate you taking the time to share what you heard at the meeting. I am impressed by Rowell in a sense. He may not be very good at some aspects of his job (creating a winning basketball team) but it sounds like he handled a tough crowd of hostile season ticket holders very well. I have no clue how much of what he said was true, exaggerated, or a total fabrication so I’ll trust your read on the situation. He likely is passionate about his job and sincere about his regret in the way STH’s have been treated. It doesn’t really change what has happened though.
He is the one that should have been game-planning to try to retain as many season ticket holders as possible along with filling unsold seats. They pushed those “club 200” season tickets so hard last year and I’m guessing that the majority of the people who bought ST’s there have a bad taste in their mouth. I really hope they find a way to improve that situation and make it up to you guys.
As far as personnel decisions go, I think that from what he told you the Baron situation was handled pretty well. They wanted to cover their a$$ (and for good reason) and Baron thought (knew?) that he could do better elsewhere. No hard feelings there.
Jackson, on the other hand, had his way with Rowell this offseason. This is old information so I feel like I can probably share it now. Pree told me that Jackson would not return management’s calls or Mullin’s calls or Nelson’s calls or Monta’s calls or Pree’s calls for almost a month (did the same thing when they traded JRich, but that only lasted a week). A while after that he went public with his displeasure with his contract situation to MT2. Shortly there after he was extended. It was also rumored that they were shopping him in the time between the initial dispute and the contract extension. You have to think that Jackson forced Rowell’s hand when he never should have been in a position to do so. I can understand him not being happy but why bend to his pressure? Until then they had been playing hardball with everybody and finding some success doing so. /rant
Thanks again Brit. Good job getting it all down for us in such detail without having it recorded. I’m glad that you got a chance to sit down and voice your opinions to the man at the top.
Thing 2
Wow
that makes me despise his contract even more. The media feeds us all of this BS about him being all about the team and being “the best teammate a guy could have”. Oh he’s such a leader and great presence in the locker room.
And then he goes and acts like a baby so he can swindle a hefty contract extension.. TWO YEARS before it was due? That’s not the “good guy, consummate teammate” Stephen Jackson that we’re all brainwashed to believe.
"We Deserve"
I remember that time
Davis had just opted out and the organization was in turmoil. Jack was probably confused and had split loyalties. I can understand why Rowell did what he did. It was likely a bit of panic trying to hold the center in a young organization that looked ready to blow apart. They hadn’t yet signed Andris or Monta.
I like Jackson. I wish he was playing under his old contract still. But I understand how Rowell then felt he needed him to anchor this team. What I don’t understand is the signing of Maggette or Crawford.
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
Actually, the extension wasn’t finalized until after the season started with Monta and Biedrins inked to thier deals. His extension was signed in Nov. It didn’t make sense.
by jae on Apr 9, 2009 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions
you're right
…but wasn’t Jackson going around telling everyone he had an understanding with Rowell long before then? I may be stretching to excuse Rowell; trying to insert sense where none exised. My thought then was the W’s felt they needed to show loyalty to the remaining captain and promised Jack in the summer they would take care of him. They probably already knew Harrington was on the way out. And Monta was in no-man’s land when the actual deal was inked. In retrospect, they probably should have waited. But some team chemistry hangs in the delicate balance between coddling your players and driving the hardest bargain.
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
“Team chemistry” and “leadership” are ephemeral. At the point where you are trying to salvage them by buying a player off to soothe the fragile egos of immensely talented millionaires, it’s probably too late. At the point where the salvage operation is necessary, it is usually too late and a mistake to toss money at. “Good guys” can turn to cancer if things don’t go their way (and inversely, winning some games seems to make ‘great clubhouse guys’ out of malcontent.
However, contracts endure, no matter how big the mistake. You’d think that a look around the league would teach these guys that, but it seems that the guys in charge of dolling out millions make the same mistakes over and over again.
Timeline...
I wasn’t very clear about the timeline so I wanted to clarify. His little communication blackout was just after Baron leaving at the end of June. That lasted through July. Jackson went public to MT2 at the end of August. He was finally extended in mid-November. The rumor is that they were shopping him (and Harrington) on and off during this whole period.
I’m not sure if they just didn’t like what they could get in return and were afraid of what a disgruntled Jackson could do to the team or what. I really don’t get why they felt compelled to extend him this year instead of letting him play out the remainder of his contract or just waiting until they found the right deal.
Thing 2
I’d much rather have a disgruntled Jackson who, in two years max would be someone else’s problem than a 35 year-old past-prime player who was never the star that Rowell seems to think he is when the contract finally runs out. If you have to buy a player’s love and commitment, chances are you won’t get what you’re shopping for over the long term; something will go wrong before it’s all said and done. A three year extension to attempt to buy his love just means 4 years for something to go wrong.
My problem with this thread is that it characterizes Rowell’s decision on signing Jackson completely as cow-towing to a whiner. And it casts Jackson in the most unfavorable light. I agree that the W’s would be better off now without the burden of these three veteran contracts. But, of the three, Jackson’s is the most understandable to me.
We complain that Jackson is immature in his interactions with the refs. We complain that he requires volume to score. We criticize his turnovers and time on the court. And now we have a story about Jackson being incommunicato right after his friend laid an egg on the franchise.
From Jackson’s POV, I’m sure his head was spinning. First, Jason, then Matt. Al had a foot out and then Baron surprises everyone. I think we all ought to be glad Steven just kept to himself.
When Rowell made the decision to elevate Jack, no one could have been sure the youngsters would do as well as they did. And the experience from last year showed Jackson was the player who made the most difference in winning games. Jackson then suffered increasing fan criticism as Nellie decided to play him more minutes per game than any other NBA player and run the offense through him, all the while relying on him to defend the opposing star, pretty much regardless of position.
Would I be happier with Jackson’s old contract now? Sure. But let’s not demonize this guy. For all of his faults, he is the heart of this team. He is the leader. Used properly, he could give as good a 32 mins a game at off guard next year as anyone in the league. And he has the craftiness, palying style and body to continue doing so for many years.
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
The blame game...
I don’t personally blame Jackson for any of this. He may have acted in a less than professional way but I can understand his frustration. He had just become the fifth highest paid player on the team and he felt like he was now supposed to be the team leader. Those two “realities” probably didn’t go so well together in his mind.
I absolutely blame Rowell for making the very poor decision to extend him. He should have looked him in the eye and said “Jack we just spent a ton of money trying to recover from Baron’s departure and trying to hold on to some of these young guys who’s contracts had expired and now is just not the time for us to be spending on a decision that doesn’t need to be made for two more years.” Would he have been pissed? Maybe… okay, probably. But would it have hurt the team? I’m not so sure. I think he would have gotten over it. I think he would have sucked it up and played hard. If not then we certainly could have traded him. Let’s not forget that before his extension Jack was basically at the peak of his trade value as a Warrior. The longer we kept him and the closer his contract came to expiring the more valuable he would have gotten.
Like Sam said above, Harrington and Jackson’s expiring contracts pluss some combination of Wright and/or Randolph and our draft pick may have netted us a legit superstar this offseason.
Thing 2
by olympicmike on Apr 10, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
he could have hurt the team – young, injured, vulnerable to an early season melt-down – and an attitude -laden Jackson may not have been easy to trade, with his track record, but after this season the expiring would have had more value
regardless of all that, we agree that was a weak decision on RRs part …
Actually...
We agree on both counts. I do think he could have hurt the team. I just don’t think it would have really made that big of a difference in the long run. Maybe it would have been a bigger problem than I imagine but I don’t see how it does anything but help our draft position in an already down year.
Thing 2
by olympicmike on Apr 11, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Like Sam said above, Harrington and Jackson’s expiring contracts pluss some combination of Wright and/or Randolph and our draft pick may have netted us a legit superstar this offseason.
I find it hard to believe that the Warriors were shopping both Jackson and Harrington as 2010 expring contracts and couldnt get anything back in return. We couldnt even get a Shawn Marion like expiring contract and a first round pick?
Anyway my biggest problem with Rowell’s past explanations of not extending Baron(which was a good move IMO) was him talking about finacial safety, and then he extends Jackson for no reason. This was clearly the worst move in the last year or so and the blame falls squarely on Rowell.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 11, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Shopping...
I find it hard to believe that the Warriors were shopping both Jackson and Harrington as 2010 expring contracts and couldnt get anything back in return. We couldnt even get a Shawn Marion like expiring contract and a first round pick?
Remember this is just a rumor, but from what I understand they were looking for useful players in return and just weren’t happy with what offers were coming back. They weren’t looking for expiring contracts, they were looking for “talent” (see the Crawford trade) and they couldn’t find what they would consider fair value. Also I doubt that they were shopping Jackson as hard as Harrington considering the fact that they did eventually extend him.
Also their real value would have been this offseason. Like I said before we’d have about 18mil of expiring contracts to pair with Wright/Randolph and our 1st round pick. If an opportunity did arise that would be a tough offer to beat.
Thing 2
by olympicmike on Apr 11, 2009 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Nicely put,
the biggest problem is that Nelson nullified Mullin and convinced RR that we could have made a run this year. When Baron was gone and Monta was dealing with mo-ped gate, the team should of just been in full rebuilding mode.
As much as he is disliked(for his play, not his personality) Crawford might be the best thing we have to package with Wright and Belinelli in the offseason. Not sure who we can pick, but any legit talent would be ok in my book.(Carter, Jefferson to name a few….)
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 12, 2009 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions
+1
nicely done, that was even before moped happened.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 13, 2009 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions
I see Jax’s contract as the least understandable. If the team wanted Maggette and believed he was really going to replace a chunk of the production that was walking out the door in Baron (and replace a SF position last year manned by Barnes and Pietrus), then they ‘did what they had to’ to get him aboard. Crawford was a contract that they acquired thinking that they needed player talent to replace Harrington, who wasn’t going to play anymore. In both cases, they saw that they were acquiring guys expected to contribute on the court. While I think in both cases they overestimated the performance they’d get (moreso with Crawford, who has never really performed consistent with winning basketball), inevitably, you have to have players on the court. Wise? No. Understandable? Somewhat.
The Jax contract though didn’t net them anything new on the court. It only ensured that they would have a guy who was considered something of damaged goods before (fans here probably gave him more love than those who remember the rush the fans in Det/nightclub shooting version), somewhat mitigated by his high scoring (but low efficiency—if anyone believes in ‘inflated stats’, those fit the bill as much as any) year, but still not someone teams were rushing to take, but he was at peak value for the next year coming off a (statistically superficially good) career year. His biggest value was that he had a not terrible contract that expired in ’10, so couple the two and the situation was good.
And then they made it bad thinking that he was a key player they had to have.
I’ve been over this before, but I think too many people read far too much into the “turnaround” when Jax came off his suspension. There’s a combination of a very tough schedule (only one loss was to a team that wasn’t a perennial playoff squad @LAC), coupled with a random run of poor performances in the first 6 games and we get fooled by the apparent correlation with Jax’s return, fooled by a ridiculously small sample size (and ignorant of the fact that the team started playing better, crushing LAC in the game before he returned. But look not too carefully and it’s Jax is back ergo that’s the whole difference.
But some, including apparently Rowell, believed him to be that all-important piece, especially with Baron gone, and it was a panicked move to extend him. If you have to buy someone’s love, it is almost a sure thing that it won’t last. What do they have now to offer when he’s upset again? Can’t even offer him a ticket out of town since his contract makes him very, very tough to move.
And now we’re stuck with a guy who will get more money than he’s ever received when he’s 34 and 35, when it’s very, very probable that he won’t be performing at a level worth it. Looking at the league, there’s only 16 guys who started the season at 34 or 35 (6 guys in the latter category). Those guys are here. That’s a list of guys who have declined, some much more than others, but as a group, they were pretty good to very, very good players, most of whom now have some serious limitations in their games. The defensive powers in that group seem to have lost more than a step, making them liabilities in some if not all instances on D. I do not see why Jax would somehow defy this trend, but we’ll get the chance to see.
Now we’re at the ‘if used properly he could give a <insert limited subset of what we’d want him to actually do>. That’s another variant on the “if he comes off the bench, Maggette seems like he can do well/against the right matchups, Crawford might be a great spark for us”. 3 guys who are among the top of the team’s salary scale, all of whom appear headed for situational play? Not wise, but in each case, plausibly foreseeable.
by jae on Apr 10, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
The big irony behind the whole argument that we were a horrible team when Jack was serving his suspension is… he was responsible for that suspension in the first place, and has been very “suspension-prone” throughout his career.
Nobody can say “well, we’re a worse team when Jackson is not on the floor cuz he’s suspended” because HE himself is the one causing those suspensions.
You’re absolutely right on this JAE. In 3 or 4 years from now, Crawford will be gone, Maggette will be doing the same things he’s doing now, but the Stephen Jackson mistake is the one that’s going to hurt the most.
"We Deserve"
rec'd
Maggette signing and Crawford were foolish moves, but the Jackson extension just leaves one flabbergasted. There was aboslutely no positives from this other than Jackson’s personal happiness.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 11, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Jax signing was a Nellie move
I had a post earlier about this… what I believe is Nellie wanted to have Jax on the team if Nellie was going to have to deal with the youngsters for 3 years. He wanted a lieutenant on the team who is going to keep everyone in line. Jax’s effort and defense were also great examples for the younger players.
Crawford was the worst decision of the three
the Maggette signing still makes sense – both then and now, though it’s difficult to defend when he’s put out there trying to defend PFs and playing with an injury for much of the middle of the season. Once we re-signed our RFAs we’d not have been able to sign any FA, and he was the best fit available. Yes, we had to overpay – but he has shown an ability to fulfill scoring gap and even a willingness to come off the bench for Nelson. We did not know at the time Jax would hold-up the bank, nor that we’d be taking on Crawford’s contract. Had Monta not been hurt, we might have been able to compete with Maggette et al for the 8th seed. Might, but it wouldn’t even have been imaginable without him.
Jackson’s extension was a case of RR & Co. being taken advantage of at a vulnerable time – and perfect timing for Jax as he had a one-time window for the extension and it fell at the most opportune time imaginable. Still, while a GSW he’d behaved admirably and was the one Nelson could count on. He also is a very versatile player who Nelson can and has used in a variety of ways, not unlike how he used Sidney Moncrief with the Bucks (ya, I am that old). My guess, and this is only a guess, is that this move was the one that really divided Mullin and Nelson this past fall.
The trade for Crawford is the most egregious imo. We already knew what Maggette, Ellis, and Andris were costing us moving forward and the Jax extension was a done deal. Yet we added a longer contract than Harrington’s in a move that weakened a position already thin and deepened a position already full. Trading big for small is a mistake, and we suffered at PF all year until AR made some strides late. Plus, we have to remember that this was all our own doing – while Harrington definitely wanted out, he’d been a good soldier about it for quite some time until Nelson & he couldn’t get along anymore this fall. STILL we could have waited for a better offer or at least let him expire without taking on the third albatross contract. This strikes me as a panic trade, more desperate than the strategic signing of Maggette or extending Jackson, and as such points to the weakened state of the FO which was not longer following any semblance of a plan.
by hardcore on Apr 10, 2009 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
You make excellent points,
and we all agree trading for Crawford was horrible, but there was a reason to do it. Ellis was out indefinetly and Harrington was not going to suit up in a Warrior’s jersey and at the time RR and Co. believed we could still compete this year. Bad trade but I can kind of see their logic. I don’t see any with the Jackson signing.
As for right now, Crawford is much easier piece to trade. Crawford comes off the books in 2 years while Jackson has 4 more years. Also Crawford is seen as one of the good guys around the league while Jackson….is still Stephan Jackson.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 11, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
at the time RR and Co. believed we could still compete this year
hindsight being 20-20, we knew Monta was going to be out but didn’t try to replace his production at PG until after the blow up with Harrington and the forced marriage, er trade with Crawford. We were going to go with with DNelson, CJ, KAz, Jax, Maggs, et al at the guard spots … the only reason for the trade was to relieve Nellie from the daily reminder that he’d mismanaged Harrington … keeping Harrington would have helped us more than taking on Crawford even if Al didn’t play another minute (can you tell I’m still fuming over this! yeesh) … You’re right, of the three Crawford is the easiest to trade – but if I’m right that means none of them are moving anywhere because if Nellie could have traded him he probably wouldn’t have tried convincing him to opt out. So, two more years with the terrific-treo …
as for trying to find silver linings (and emerge from the dark, pessimistic place I’ve resided in for far too much of this season) had we not had such a woeful personnel experience this season we’d’ve not likely seen the emergence of AR, the halting improvement of Marco, nor the hope of Morrow – which sounds to me like a most fitting discription of the state of the franchise to date …
we knew Monta was going to be out but didn’t try to replace his production at PG until after the blow up with Harrington and the forced marriage, er trade with Crawford.
I really think management hit the grand slam with Crawford here. A guy that could play the point till/if Monta came back and can play beside Monta when he did come back, due to his ‘size’.
Yes Nelson mismanaged Harrington, but Nelson is the grand master at spinning things his way. I totally agree keeping Al inacitive all year and either forcing him to opt out or calling his bluff would of been a much better move than adding Crawford. We all agree that Jackson, Crawford, and Maggette(the worst in my book) are very undesirable. But we have subliminaly made it clear that Marco Belinelli and Brandan Wright are not going to be in this team in the long run. Those 2 plus one of the undesiarables doesnt sound that bad, and of those guys Crawford is the guy most people will want(only because of his contract).
as for trying to find silver linings (and emerge from the dark, pessimistic place I’ve resided in for far too much of this season) had we not had such a woeful personnel experience this season
You and me both man. I say it might be a great oppurtunity to sell Azibuike while his stock is at a all time high.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 12, 2009 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Interesting take...
I still think that Jackson was a bit worse but that was a good post. Rec.
Thing 2
by olympicmike on Apr 11, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
my vote
is still for the Maggette signing. All 3 are downright awful, but I think in Jackson’s case management drastically overestimated his value as a fan favorite. (kinda the opposite of what they did in the JRich trade) Its still indefensible, but Maggette……. ugggh. Honestly who was thinking to themselves this offseaon: “Hey, you know what we need? You know what would make this team a lot better? A 10 million dollar veteran wing player that the Clippers don’t really want, is banged up all the time, and doesn’t play a lick of D!”?
Thing A
Add ‘fan favorite’ to the ephemeral list. It doesn’t take that much to make a fan favorite into someone that fans want to have shipped out of town or get bought out of their contract or somehow have an accident with a flux capacitor that erases his contract. However, it seems that if a player starts out on course to be run out of town, it takes supernatural forces like a deep run in the playoffs, to change opinions.
Sam,
I still agree, as of right now, Maggette is still the worst contract on the books, and it still made no sense when it was made.
Its intresting that our 3 bad contracts were aquired with in the last contract year. Hmmm, who did we kick out(Mullin) and who assumed power(Rowell) in that time frame?
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 12, 2009 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions
good point, I’m not a big Mullin fan (though I’m even less of a Rowell fan) but I hadn’t really thought about it like that.
Thing A
I am not a Mullin fan either,
but regardless of how ‘candid’ he appeared to STH holders to me he is the number 1 problem with this team. I would love to see Rowell and Cohan hire a qualified basketball guy and let him be the gm without meddling from Nelson or Rowell.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 13, 2009 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
woops,
I meant “but regardless of how ‘candid’ Rowell appeared”….
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 13, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Rowell...
…on the point about Baron, presuming he is in fact telling the truth, that’s something of a false front from the outset. Offering Baron Davis, a near All-Star level PG and a ten year veteran a deal that requires him to pass two separate incentive thresholds for his contract to even continue, is not really an offer. It’s an offer insofar as he could say, “we tried to resign Baron,” but functionally, no player in Baron’s position would EVER take that deal. I’ve never personally heard of an NBA player with a games played incentive that literally extends his contract. Does anybody have knowledge on this?
In any case, if Rowell did offer that deal, he either did so knowing full well Baron would tell him to F off. That’s a proposal that exists only so after a bad season you can tell your fans, “hey, we TRIED to resign him!! But oddly enough, our offer that was both flatly inferior to almost any other offer he’d receive, as well as structured in a way to irritate his obvious pride, was not to his liking!”
by Zack Vank on Apr 9, 2009 2:53 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Well after seeing Baron this year and beocme a walking donut
looks like Rowell is vindicated ont hat matter.
by dungeness crabdribble on Apr 9, 2009 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed there, dungeness
I still think he’s an awesome PG, firstly, but the numbers tell the real story. And BD’s ain’t very good this year. It’s true that he’s 1) not quite got the chemistry he needs with his new team and 2) hates the system his coach is running, but at the end of the day you can’t keep making excuses for an average performance.
Before everyone gets on my case over being a bitter hater, let me also state that time could resolve both these issues. It could just be both the team and BD getting used to each other this first year.
I agree...
…that Rowell’s assessment made have panned out insofar as Baron has had a bad year (though I doubt he’d have slacked off if he’d stuck with us), I’m just not buying that it’s a legitimate claim for him to make that they tried to sign him and wanted him back. That’s unthinkable. If that was his offer, he made it merely so he could reference it as an effort.
They offered him something above open market for his services if he, you know, actually played for the team. It’s not like they made him promise 20 points and 10 assists on 45% shooting and 35% from 3. They said “We’ll pay you if you play”. If Rowell had offered BD a guaranteed 65M and BD went back to his old self, you’d be sitting here saying “I told you so, RR you suck for extending such a health risk!” Look at his history:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=194
Notice how in the year he was going to push for a contract he miraculously played every single game after missing an average of 26 games the five years prior? Even ignoring his increasing age, it’s tough to expect him not to go back to missing 20+ games a year. And guess what, he’ll have missed ~20 games this year! What does that tell you? Baron Davis plays for the money. Once he’s got guaranteed money, he doesn’t care anymore.
So, basically, RR & co. offered BD a contract with incentives for suiting up knowing that he doesn’t play without a financial incentive to do so. For a player like Baron, that’s the perfect contract: “We’ll pay you more than you can get anywhere else, but you have to actually play”. If BD is going to be a lazy a$$ and go somewhere else for guaranteed cash for the suits he’s going to be wearing on game days, great. If he can eat into the salary cap of a competitor in our division while doing so, even better.
The offer was made with good business sense. They offered what he would be worth, he didn’t take it. You want them to pull out all the stops for a player who’s not going to give 100%? No thank you.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 10, 2009 6:36 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Non-guaranteed contracts (keeping the rights to void Ellis), and shorter incentive based contracts (Baron's offer) are the future of the NBA.
Read some of Stern’s and Falk’s comments on renewing the CBA. Just like Rowell was innovative with his marketing plan to draw more crowds (but get less wins). I can’t remember what his position is within the league, but he is part of the Grand Profiteer think tank. Would it be that surprising for him to test experimental business practices on the Warriors? Not at all I say.
by Nuck Chorris on Apr 10, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Not quite
Baron just doesn’t fit into the Clipper’s system. He is not a slow, half court point guard. He isn’t inspired by their play, and he isn’t responding well as a result. He’s said publicly that he wants to be moved. Baron is a terrific player, and we should have extended him for three years without all the extra clauses in the deal: Zack is right, no players take deals that are based so heavily on incentives.
Rowell's take via Brit
Great read Brit.
Baron’s contract would be turned down by a ton of veteran players the way it was structured. I can see why Baron opted out, but he should have just taken the guaranteed money and played on without hesitation. Incentives would have just been a bonus on top of being on a good team. Ego got the best of Baron.
Jackson will be around next year, so will Andris, Monta, Buike, Randolph, Morrow, Turiaf and BWright. That I believe. As for Crawford and Mags, I don’t know if anyone will take their mega contracts. The rest of them are trade fodder. Hopefully the Dubs land a true baller this off season.
Rowell does sound like a typical Pres of a crap organization. Blaming almost everything on someone else when he has near final say on the majority of issues. Club 200 got screwed yes, but throwing management under the bus is weak sauce. I just don’t buy that he and Mullin are eye to eye and that Mullin’s draft choices were passable in comparison to prior picks like POB. Mullin is 100 miles and running.
Rowell doesn’t seem to evoke a guy who maybe played sports or has a strong competitive drive, but also the desire to run an efficient and functionable business. Rowell, seems like a margin and number whore without any sort of balls. Another suit who on paper made right decisions, yet has no clue. Get Rowell and Cohan outta this stink and prey the Dubs land an owner with deep pockets, a love of sports and some juevos. Its about time. Cohan and Rowell have been around since the darkest of days. 1995 if my math is correct. You know the glory days of 1995-2009…
The rest of them are trade fodder. Hopefully the Dubs land a true baller this off season.
hope you’re right, just wondering how are we going to get said true baller if all we have to work with are Kurz & Co.?
Well lets see where we pick,
I feel good about Biedrins and Randolph in the front court. What could we get for the first round pick and some of are left over stuff….
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 11, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
He's not exactly lying, but...
He looks like a guy who is deflecting blame from himself. Sure, he can blame Monta for his moped incident, but he is responsible for these bloated contracts and blamed the other people in the organization for disrespect to Club 200 before “taking responsibility”, not exactly someone who I want in charge of an organization.
Doesn’t appear that he’s lying about his desire about wanting a winning team. He’s just incompetent.
Bay Area Bruin.
I'm not convinced
Everyone is going to put their spin on things with or without the appearance of sincerity. Rowell is really up against it; what the heck is he supposed to say. I sure can understand why he doesn’t read blogs or newspapers, but I wonder if he read the scathing emails I sent (with many others I’m sure) sent to our reps with the explicit request to pass them on to RR. Anyway, I don’t really care what he said. I do care about what will actually transpire and if he will hire a real GM who can give our team a vision and direction for the future. And a GM who will actually hold Nelson accountable for his behavior and the team’s performance.
I also think it is very ironic that our team managed to lose to the T’Wolves (at home) after his interview. Now how sick is that.
CWebb is undoubtedly the answer but I forgot the question.
its called tanking!!
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Agreed,
The number 1 priority should be to hire a credible GM and let him take the reigns of the front office. Mullin is gone, but this think tank commitee is not going to work. We need one guy with a vision that can build this team.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 11, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think I've ever seen this many rec's!
Great Job! Great Read!
Beyond Golden State of Design... and than some!
http://www.tonypsd.blogspot.com/
Cheers mate, thats appreciated.
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Apr 10, 2009 3:19 AM PDT up reply actions
he said "the biggest regret he has on players that have left is the loss of J-Rich, in his personal opinion that deal should not have been done."
Did he say who was responsible for lying to Jason and if he fired them?
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 9, 2009 10:13 PM PDT reply actions
Already a CLASSIC GSOM ARTICLE
Great read man. Thank you for taking your time and representing us angry/passionate/die-hard fans. REC’D for sure…and i know we will all be taking a look back at this post for many years to come to see how it all went down. Thank you and greatly appreciated again.
Truth is like wine….wherein good quality gets better with time,
and bad ones turn into vinegar.
What's wrong with Vinegar?
I LOVE vinegar!
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
by JustSomeName on Apr 10, 2009 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions
not when you're trying to drink it!
I wonder if wine that turned into vinegar would be considered high quality vinegar?
High quality BS from Rowell? Hmmm…
Thanks for the read BritWarriorGSW
I can tell this took a lot of effort. It was well worth it. Much appreciated.
Looks like you got some other unexpected fans:
Ellis’ agent: Warriors still haven’t clarified or changed their void stance [Talking Points]
by Atma Brother ONE on Apr 10, 2009 11:10 AM PDT reply actions
RR: Done Voiding....Ellis' Agent: Haven't heard anything yet...
Oh scooter mcgee. let’s see how this pans out…i really hope Rowell was telling the truth.
But you know, I’m also Jesus.
Thanks Atma and your welcome
This meeting/opportunity was my chance to share with everyone that was not able to be in the meeting exactly what came from RR’s mouth and it is for everyone to then draw their own conclusions as to what is fact and what is fiction. What has surprised me truly is how much interest has been generate by the post. Oh well..at least it shines a little more light on GSOM!!! Go Warriors!
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Apr 10, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks, Great Read!
The only question I have is if Rowell ever took responsibility for the poor offseason the team had? It seems to me from reading your post, he blamed everyone but himself. He blamed current, and former players (for the demise of this season). The only place I really saw an apology was when he referred to season ticket holders. Am I right or wrong in thinking that Rowell is trying to cover his own behind when it comes to this season’s failure?
by Sharunas Marchulenis on Apr 10, 2009 11:18 AM PDT reply actions
Cohan probably took one look at the STH renewal numbers and said, "WTF!"
Someone said that their goal of 70% renewal by the first deadline would not be met by a long shot.
That and people are clamoring for Rowell to be fired. I wholeheartedly agree with them. He made choices this year that are irreconcilable from a consumer standpoint. Given his terrible public image, how is Rowell not replaceable? The fans know it (Club 200), and Cohan knows it. I also think that many other STH’s emphasize with Club 200.
I was at court side one night, and people were trouncing through our section. Some guy sits next to us with a full beer, puts it under his seat, and walks away for a sec. People were trouncing through their seats (much to my dismay) and spilled the beer everywhere. Second’s later the guy comes back, and I told him what happened. A waiter was standing there when I told him what happened, and all the waiter says is “That looks like a $10 spill!” then walks away without offering to clean the puddle of beer at our feet or even GET the man a new one. I was shocked. Not only did he point out how outrageously expensive the beer was, but he laughed at the mans misfortune before walking away. It might as well have been Robert Rowell that was the waiter.
Now THAT’s a great time out.
by Nuck Chorris on Apr 10, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Ouch...
That’s pretty rough. At the very least he could have cleaned up the mess or went to get someone else to do it instead of making you guys sit it beer all night.
The customer service is definitely a mixed bag at the Oracle. Just to even out the stories I did have a good experience on Wed night. My son wanted one of those mini warriors basketballs from one of those club 200 merchandise mini-store things so my father-in-law took him to get one. They only had one left but it was flat. She said he could buy that one but she couldn’t guarantee that it would hold air. As soon as he said no thanks she caught herself and said since she couldn’t be sure if it was defective that my son could have it for free. He just turned three and having this little flat ball really made his night. The good news is that when we got it home it does hold air.
Thing 2
nice story
Its really hard to blame Robert Rowell for every bad customer service expirience that is had and praise him or every good one. For example I always hit up the Margarita stand near 108 and the guy there is really cool, do I praise Robert Rowell for that?
What is inexcuable is what happened to the Club 200 STH’s. Just admitting that they got screwed is’nt good enough. If RR knew about this, why did he not do anything about it?
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 11, 2009 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
I think he did portray thatif the organization has done a bad job...
Then as the President of it…he has done a bad job. I “think” he was hinting at that, but equally there were a few pointy fingers aimed at other departments for their failures. Question is…should the President of a company openly point fingers at members of his own staff in public??? I’m not so sure.
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Apr 10, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Congrats BritWarriorGSW
Your post was also linked by Vittorio Tafur at Examiner.com.
Thanks IQ, I also just had a call from Warriors PR Officer.......
It eems the article has been well received within the organisation, however they wanted to clarify with regards to the J-Rich trade that RR did not “disagree” with the trade as I had mentioned but that J-Rich was a key player in the team, fan favourite etc. I explained that if someone basically says that he didnt agree that the J-Rich trade was done at the right time for this organisation, then that is saying he didnt agree with the trade. But again we all say things sometimes that we might otherwise think post event, “I should have worded that differently”.
BoBoBalla was also there, did you think he said he didnt agree with the J-Rich trade?
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
"seems" dammit... but nothing else was questioned so that begs an interesting question with regards
Ellis’s agent? Someone is not telling the truth with regards to voiding the Ellis contract and it’s either RR or the Agent, if the agent is maintaining they have not been told this?….time will tell who speaks with forked tongue!! ;)
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Apr 10, 2009 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Jrich
Honestly it was kinda hard to hear from the very back, so don’t remember his exact words when he described the Jrich situation.
From what I could make out from the back though, I did get the sense that he did not agree with the trade at the time. Later on though, he did mention some good things about Wright’s abilities.
TY mate, I didnt think I got that wrong.
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Apr 10, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Did they answer your question regarding customer care (or the lack thereof)?
by Nuck Chorris on Apr 10, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Not yet but it is an ongoing conversation....
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Apr 10, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Nice,
its good to see that the Warriors public relations does monitor this site. It is no secret that GSOM is one of the most heavy trafficed team specific blog.
It kind of makes me wonder whether RR had some extensive reasearch done on this site to find out exactly to say to the Warrior fans to calm them down.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 11, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
its good to see that the Warriors public relations does monitor this site.
Now if the player-personnel people would only monitor it. (Hey, I’m still looking for a job. They should be able to tell that I’m willing to put in the hours.)
by jae on Apr 11, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Haha
If I could nominate you I would.
Thing 2
by olympicmike on Apr 11, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
If I could second that I would. I’m imagining a scenario where jae has a front office job but still checks in here regularly to explain to us the thinking on every personnel decision. How cool would that be?
Thing A
That would be cool...
The only thing is if JAE really was making the personnel decisions I don’t think it would be nearly as hard to understand the thinking behind each move as it has been.
Thing 2
Im not sure if jae, can bring a championship to the bay,
but I can guarantee, he wont waste salary cap space and draft picks on players who wont be ‘productive positive’ players on a team. Its not all about +/- guys but it would be nice if the front office would atleast take a second to analyze a trade using stats than just looking at ppg(Crawford).
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 12, 2009 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions
You have to have some luck to win a championship. In almost all cases, it requires one of a very small number of players who are just a step ahead of the rest, a cut above the regular run-of-the-mill ‘all-star’, and the opportunity for those guys doesn’t come around all that often. Our last shot was when Webber was here. He was pretty close and got pretty close when he was with Sacramento. But solid planning can give you a consistent winner and put you in better positions to make a shot at getting one of those guys. And no, I don’t consider tanking season after season for the 1 in 4 shot at a franchise player who might come around every few years a realistic strategy as it closes off all other possibilities.
Honestly, I think the best use of a statistical analysis is either in the case of “we need a on the cheap. Where are the bargains?” and then making a deal that looks innocuous but has real value. If the Warriors had done that before 07-08 and got a backup point guard who could produce rather than Hudson (who in addition to being hurt, which they apparently already knew, wasn’t ever particularly productive when healthy) they might have spared Baron and Jax a bit early in the season such that they’d have something in the tank at the end. I think that might have been enough to get a playoff spot.
The other is to simply weigh in as a counter balance to give a yeah-nay on a deal before it goes down, explaining the probable up/downside.
I’d have made some mistakes in the last year if so consulted. After Baron walked, I’d have given the ok for the Maggette deal since I thought his production would have done more for the team, and though expensive, for a few years, I thought it would bring some wins. But I’d never have endorsed Crawford or Jax, and would have been against Randolph as a draft choice (though I’ll also admit that projecting college players isn’t anything I’ve got a good grasp on).
As it is, early in the year I posted several times that Baron and Monta were worth about a dozen wins each, so erasing them from the lineup brings last year’s 48 win season to a 24 win season. Monta’s played in about 30% of the season, so at that rate, he can only bring 3 or 4 which takes us to 27 or 28, which means that the rest of the team doing about what they did last year, maybe a game or two improved.
and would have been against Randolph as a draft choice
interesting. I don’t follow college ball but I’m curious who you would have picked?
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 12, 2009 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Me personally,
I was very upset at the pick of Randolph. I though we already had our project in Brandon Wright. I like Joe Alexander and Brandon Rush, but they were both off the books by this point. I think Maurese Seights would of have been the obvious pick at the 14th spot.
I disagree with signig Maggette, when Baron walked we could of effectively eliminated ourselves as playoff contenders. Go into a rebuilding mode, and we had the leg up with 2 good 2010 exprings and a very young roster. Regular season wins are good and all, but the goal is to build a team that can compete, if you cant, take a step back and do what you can to build a team that can.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 12, 2009 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I like Joe Alexander and Brandon Rush, but they were both off the books by this point. I think Maurese Seights would of have been the obvious pick at the 14th spot.
Me too. Those were the guys I was hoping for at the time. I remember being slightly disappointed because I thought that Speights would be able to contribute sooner and at a higher level than Randolph, who seemed like a real gamble at the time. I’m glad things worked out the way they did. I’m not ready to reserve a spot on the All-Star team for Randolph but I think he should help us win games in the years to come.
Thing 2
by olympicmike on Apr 12, 2009 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m glad things worked out the way they did. I’m not ready to reserve a spot on the All-Star team for Randolph but I think he should help us win games in the years to come.
Yep, it was a gamble and as of right now, it looks like it will pay off. I am very happy with a Turiaf, Biedrins, and Randolph front court next year. I think its too early to say that Randolph will have a better career than Speights, who is looking pretty decent in Philly.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 13, 2009 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Speights started out the season better in that he hit on a higher percentage of his shots. That’s more or less exactly what one would have predicted based on what they did in college too. He may be running out of gas some, while Randolph is getting better. Speights is bulkier and has a better chance of being a 4/5, but Randolph is a better rebounder, much better. Stars in the league seem to have something that they do that’s outstanding. Fewer get away with being good at several things but outstanding at none. Randolph has shown he has ability to be an outstanding rebounder. I wouldn’t be unhappy with Speights on the team, but Randolph is showing more ability to dominate.
Stars in the league seem to have something that they do that’s outstanding.
I’m not convinced on that, they are several good NBA players that make a living on doing one thing particulary well and anything else you can get from them is a bonus type of deal. It seems that the ‘stars’ in the league can do several things very very well. When you look at the 6-8 best players in the league its really hard to even indentify what they do best(James, Paul, Howard, Wade, Duncan, Bryant, Roy). Of those players you can say that Wade and Bryant are prolific scorers and Howard is a maniac defender, but the rest have a good combination of skills that make them special. When you look at role players form those team you can quickly indentify their 1 or possibly 2 skills and see why they are useful.
Cleveland-Gibson(3pt shooting), Varejoe(rebounding and hustle) Wallace(defense)
Hornets-Stojakovic(shooting), Posey(defense)
Lakers-Ariza(defense)
etc…
I dont buy the argument that you have to do one thing amazing to be a star in this league, what is that Brandon Roy does better than anybody else?
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 13, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
what is that Brandon Roy does better than anybody else?
Be a star without one outstanding skill?
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 13, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions
This is what I said:
Stars in the league seem to have something that they do that’s outstanding. Fewer get away with being good at several things but outstanding at none.
Please read what I said carefully. It’s easier to reject the argument you wished I’d made than the one I actually wrote. Nowhere did I say that stars only do one thing well nor I did not say that you have to do something better than everyone else. If you are saying that I said as much, you are incorrect.
I said that you have to do something at an elite level. I stand by this. I also did not say that this alone was sufficient.
[And for what it’s worth, Roy is an outstanding scorer as an off-guard. He is not the most prolific, but he’s very efficient. I also do not yet put him in the truly elite category. I think he’s still a slight cut below.]
I said that you have to do something at an elite level. I stand by this. I also did not say that this alone was sufficient
Fair enough, I guess I read what you wrote a bit too fast and drew my own conclusions. However just I dont think just becaue you can do one thing at an elite level does it give you the inside track at being a star.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 13, 2009 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Back to the Speights vs Randolph
per 36 mins
Randolph fg%460 rebs11.6 pts15.8 blks2.5 to2.6
Speights fg%504 rebs8.4 pts17.5 blks1.6 to1.6
they both have gotten about the same amount of minutes this season.
It seems Speights scores more and is more effective at it, while Randolph gets more rebounds and blocks at the cost of lower fg% and more turnovers. Its far to early to call the competetion between them.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 13, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
True
But look at Randolph’s splits. He’s gone from an awful scorer to an efficient scorer AND cut down on his turnovers significantly (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?playerId=3455).
He’s made significant inroads in the categories Speights was better at. Not to mention that Speights doesn’t block anything. They’re still rookies, so it’s definitely way too early to call anything, but I’d much rather have AR than Speights.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 13, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
The FG efficiency over the course of the year doesn’t tell the whole tale. Speights started out well but has been tailing off. Randolph was terrible early on. Since being used as an interior player, he’s been very efficient. Over the second half of the season, Speights has not been more efficient. Randolph is just a few shots under 50% from the floor over the last couple of months with increased playing time. Speights over the same period seems to have fallen off considerably.
Randolph’s turnover numbers seem to be improving considerably as well. Speights still turns it over less often, but it appears he’s doing his best Yinka Dare impersonation when it comes to passing the ball.
Reb vs. FG%
Randolph gets more rebounds and blocks at the cost of lower fg% and more turnovers.
That’s basically the trade off but, at the risk of repeating everything that DFiB and jae said, there is more to it. Even without the benefit of looking at the splits I’d probably take the exceptional rebounder just because it is more likely for a guy to improve his FG% than his rebounding.
But when you factor in Randolphs progress throughout the year I think things start to lean more heavily in his favor. He seems to be figuring out how to limit his mistakes and improve his shot selection. On top of that his jumper seems to be improving marginally (still not reliable at all) and if he continues to work on it there is no reason to think he can’t add that to his game to some degree.
Randolph is already strong in the either-do-it-or-you-don’t category of rebounding so I think that in itself gives him the bigger upside. The things he’s not so good at can be improved and have been improving over the course of the season.
Thing 2
Ahead of the draft, we never know who is going to be available. But when they were picking, I wanted Speights of the targets available. He’s played well but he doesn’t seem to have anything in his game that looks exceptional at the NBA level yet. Randolph’s rebound is exceptional.
I watched the draft and wanted anyone but Randolph because I just saw so much bust potential and the list of guys who were fabulous athletes who never really could play the game is long and he screamed that he could be one of them. I resisted throwing my beer at the TV screen since I was at a bar and they tend not to take that sort of thing too well. Randolph just wasn’t particularly good in college. He had a relatively low FG% for a guy his size and he was ridiculously turnover prone and for his “wing skills” he didn’t show much wing production. His rebounding was pretty good, but it didn’t suggest he’d do what he’s doing in the pros. I guess that in his lone year in a dysfunctional coaching situation, it would probably have been better to think of him as a ‘straight from HS’ player. Given that he was also unable to make his HS team win more than half their games, it suggested some bigger flaws though and I’m not sure I would have given him much of a look on that ground as well.
I'm with you here
I’ve been elated at how good Randolph has been this year, especially how quickly he cut his TO rate. I think Randolph is a player to build around and was a great pick at 14. But at the time I also thought that Speights was the right pick, and it’s hard to feel too wrong about that evaluation in that Speights has been what I thought he could be.
Hollinger had Randolph profiled as the least likely lottery candidate to do anything positive, a near-certain bust waiting to happen (and on the other hand Wright profiled well in his projection system). Thusfar, Randolph has already shown to be a useful NBA player, with potential to be great. I’ll happily eat crow and admit that the Warriors picked well, even though Randolph didn’t seem to fit the most immediate needs as yet another thin/project big man coming to a team that had exhausted its supply of tough wings in a system that is about wing play.
Was Hollinger the one who wrote about AR “Between me and the scouts, one of us is going to look like an idiot”?
Well, I guess we know now. Good work scouts.
Well, Hollinger certainly didn’t hide from his assessment.
Honestly, projecting from college statistics is a high risk endeavor. It’s usually (but not always) the case that if the stats aren’t there, the player won’t turn out well in the pros, but merely having the stats is insufficient. Randolph so early looked like he was exactly Hollinger’s projection (and played exactly to his weaknesses). I’ve been mighty impressed with how much he’s been able to change direction and play to his strengths and avoid his weaknesses. Maybe Nellie deserves credit, maybe not, but it’s been among the brightest spots on the team this year.
I just want a competent person who has a
goal of building a team that will be able to be a legitement contender one day to run this franchise(basketball operations atleast). Doesnt sound that hard but Twardzik, Carlisemo, and St Jean just dont cut it.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 12, 2009 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: "I should have worded that differently".
That’s awesome. You should have told the PR person that Rowell should have worded it differently.
Like it’s your fault the guy did a crappy job spinning his own lies.
Great job. Invaluable insight. Very much appreciated.
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Apr 12, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Robert Rowell take accountability for his or the teams(he is the team president) actions?
Why would he do that? 1 playoff appearance in 15 years but how many price hikes? Keep on keeping on RR, club 200 got totally screwed this year, but Warrior fans in general are screwed buy the product you give us year in and year out.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Apr 12, 2009 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Really guys
This has to be the best post ever on GSOM. People are posting this link in other basketball related sites. More than 30 recs… wow! Congrats to Brit!!
F**K REFS
Quit
Robert for the sake of the team QUIT and let someone who knows about NBA Basketball run the the team.
by Boycott the warriors on Apr 11, 2009 10:33 AM PDT reply actions
Would you buy a used car from Robert Rowell?
Excellent post Brit, but it sounds like this used car salesman is selling you a “less than perfect” (i wouldn’t say lemon) automobile that you already made up your mind that you just gotta have.
He has washed and buffed it so that it is all shiny and sparkly. He regrets and didn’t agree with “them” taking out the old expensive sound system and replacing it with that cheaper one, but it plays good music. There is some drawbacks that were “unavoidable” and completely necessary as you’ll be responsible for a few additional 4-year loans for after market parts that this car couldn’t possibly run without.
After you sign on the dotted line with your financing committed, you excitedly go to pick up your ride. You are furiously surprised to find “they” have replaced the hot tires and rims with older, rusty wheels and the tires have little tread left.
The only real hope is if Cohan is forced to sell the whole lot to the arena’s namesake corporation’s head honcho.
Larry, save us from this impending disaster!
P.S. – Guys, all great comments, jae in particular.
Thanks BritWarriorGSW for the post
This was a nice read. I scanned through all the replies/responses and I’m sure I read so many that I forgot some of them already. You asked good questions and I look forward to seeing if you get a follow up. More than likely, Rowell won’t set anything up with you until right before next season. It’ll give him time to discuss changes made at Oracle in regards to Customer Service, ticket prices, and get ready for questions about offseason moves (draft picks, trades), etc.
I am surprised that Rowell said that Club 200 STH were screwed, but didn’t follow up with that. Anyone that is head of organization, in sales, or marketing, would come back with something positive to show improvement, but he didn’t really do that. I hope he understands that you were going to post this and get a reaction and get many fans waiting to see what happens. Anyways, good job on this and hopefully next year, the prices in Oracle will be cheaper or at least discounted for food and drinks for season ticket holders and hopefully the ticket prices either get frozen or lowered again to keep the fan base.
Those Best Buy $5.00 tickets are nice, but when I think buying a $65 face value ticket at a discounted price of $50, $40, $30 was nice, it doesn’t make us happy to see last second fairweather fans that are just looking for something to do get a better deal.
thanks a bunch
Hey thanks a bunch for this post! It’s great to hear directly from the source itself w/o going through the media!
Ellis to the RIM!
Monta for the win?! YES!
Such is the mediascape that has Warriors front office running around like a chicken with its head cut off.
by Nuck Chorris on Apr 12, 2009 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Will be interesting to see if I get a second bite at the apple...
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Apr 13, 2009 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Great post
but the really reason I rec’d it is because after I read “centre” I went back and re-read the whole thing with a funny British accent.

Thing A
after I read "centre" I went back and re-read the whole thing with a funny British accent.
wearing tinfoil britishknights armor with paper helmet?
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 13, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
OH BEHAVE!!!!!
Question is…..will the post reach 40 recs?…..will JAE say “good post”??? questions questions… ;)
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Apr 13, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
.will JAE say "good post"???
Haha, he’s still trying to quantify it into something dry .
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 13, 2009 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
From you sir, I take that as a huge compliment! ;)
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Apr 13, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Haha
will the post reach 40 recs?
I think everybody who knows how to use the rec function already rec’d it.
Thanks again.
Thing 2
BritGSW
Let me know if you do get that bite of the apple :-)
Golden State Warriors fan since 1984. The Filipino sensation!
The loudest Warrior fan in Section 208, Row DS, Seats 15-16.




















