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Around SBN: Africa Cup Of Nations Semifinal: Black Stars Ripe For Upset?

Will Monta stay a Warrior?

Would you be suprised if Monta Ellis is no longer a Warrior by next season?

Meaning Monta Ellis would be dealt in a trade during this offseason. As much as he is a valuable player, There IS NO PERCENTAGE of Monta being traded.

Either way, the Warriors roster would still be not only exciting, but will compete for a playoff spot, or maybe more.

 

So here's my scenario; ...IF Monta is traded for whatever reason,

Say we get Bosh or Amare for Monta and other's, I rather keep Biedrins than Monta because defense is what wins games for you.
-Don't get me wrong, Monta is full of offense but crappy on defense.
-So we get rid of 'some' offense(We won without Monta multiple times)
and we gain some defense(from whoever we get from the trade)

Lineup would be like-

PG- Marco
SG-Steven Jackson(Defensively, I like him, but Turnover MANIAC)
SF- Azabuike
PF-Bosh, Bargnani, Amare or (Whoever we get for Monta& Wright or Maggette)
C- Biedrins

2nd Unit-

PG- CJ Watson- (Whoever we draft-Ty Lawson, Patty Mills, etc.)
SG- Morrow    (He can improve his handles during offseason)
SF- Maggette   (If he doesn't get traded)
PF- Randolph- Wright   (If he doesn't get traded)
C- Turiaf- Davidson- Kurz

*And Crawford, if he doesn't opt out, he probably will get traded for someone who'll be in the 2nd unit also.

I really want Toronto to trade Bargnani and/or Bosh for Monta & Pieces(Exluding randolph) Because- then we'll have the Italy connection with Marco and Bargnani.

Imagine a Starting lineup to be like this:

PG Marco
SG Steven Jackson(Can't get rid of him, 1% chance he'll get traded, no team wants him)
SF Azabuike or Bosh(If we get him)  Randolph( If Randolph, The Lineup is VERY TALL)
PF Bargnani- Randolph
C Biedrins -Turiaf/Davidson/Kurz
-Morrow can be a SG/SF in 2nd unit and CJ& Draft pick 2nd unit for PG.

 

I know I lack stats and not accurate, so don't take things too seriously.

 

I don't hate Monta so please don't flame me.

I'm asking for your honest opinion on 'Do you THINK or WANT Monta to is going to be/stay a Warrior.'

Poll
Do you WANT Monta to stay a Warrior? Do you THINK Monta will most likely get traded or not get traded?
Yes, I want Monta to stay a Warrior!
253 votes
No, He can ride of into the sunset with his Moped!
45 votes
Yes, it's inevitable
25 votes
No, who would we trade him for anyways?
23 votes

346 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

Comment 227 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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He's not a diamond for sure,

at least it LOOKS like it to you.
He’s just a look-a-like diamond that probably is poison, you’ll never know.

7

by AlbinoWhale on Apr 10, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

He’s just a look-a-like diamond

  he’s a cubit zirconium

Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 10, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

do you watch the games?

cj watson has better defense? on what planet? planet cj?

by saintdee on Apr 9, 2009 1:06 PM PDT reply actions  

I said

Cj Watson MIGHT have better defense than Monta.

7

by AlbinoWhale on Apr 9, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

just like

CJ watson might be an all star, am i right?

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawk on Apr 9, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I never

mentioned all-star about CJ, NEVER

7

by AlbinoWhale on Apr 9, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

i never said u did

was being sarcastic…

making fun of ur use of ‘might’

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawk on Apr 9, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cj who?

Monta does play defense. If he didn’t how would he get his steals. Besides Nellie doesn’t preach Defense. There is no way that Monta is gonna leave he is too valuable to the team. We are an above .500 team when he is in the lineup. Cj does not have better defense. His lateral quickness is not that great so he can’t keep up with other guards.

by Richboievans on Apr 9, 2009 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL steals does not mean Defense

Brandon Jennings or Ty Lawson. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.

by ejdacanay on Apr 9, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

how are steals not part of defense?

getting ur hands in the passing lanes? harassing someone? etc

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawk on Apr 9, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh man

So since Monta has a high SPG average that certainly must mean he is a premier defender, hmm Felton got a high amount of steals too, Our own CJ Watson also ranks top 50 in steals. This must certainly mean they are top Defenders. Wow I did not think of it that way. Thank you for opening my eyes LostHawk, it makes me wonder why our Defense really sucks, especially since our Press D gets us alot of steals.

Brandon Jennings or Ty Lawson. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.

by ejdacanay on Apr 10, 2009 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

lol be more condesending

how are steals not part of defense? is what u said

and i say that steals are a part of defense. maybe not the most important part, but it is definitely a part

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawk on Apr 10, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

They're important but...

They don’t tell the whole picture of a player’s defense. Most good defenders have high steal numbers, but a bad defender can also have high steal numbers because you can still get steals and be a reach defender (BD, Jackson, Ellis, basically every Warrior player). In fact, reachers are usually rewarded with high steal numbers. Anybody can reach all day and get 2-3 steals, which is a really high number in the NBA. Someone can have a much better defensive night by fronting the offensive player and maybe only walking away with 1-2 steals.

Duke grad student missing the Bay but holding it down for the Dubs from afar.

by eastbayglory on Apr 10, 2009 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

most of montas steals arent reaching

they are hands in the passing lane…

but ya…steals is not the only determinant of good defense

but anyways…monta is better defender than cj for multiple reasons:

better stealing
way better rebounding (this is extremely important on defense)
when hes in shape he’s better at staying infront of his guy (key is being in shape)

i think saying monta and cj are equally bad defenders really is not fair to monta….maybe they are closer to equal right now since monta is way out of shape and has barely played this season…but overall monta is significantly better

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawk on Apr 11, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

cj plays the same D as monta

trouble staying in front, some lazy fouls, and good hands to get steals/deflections.

Monta rebounds better though.

by mosdl on Apr 9, 2009 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

+1

Azubuike? More like Azucutie!

by goldenstatelove on Apr 9, 2009 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

?

They are BOTH awful defensively. Is saying CJ MIGHT be better really that crazy?

Thing A

by sam23 on Apr 9, 2009 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

we must not be watching the same games. Monta’s and CJ play similarly pathetic D.

Thing A

by sam23 on Apr 9, 2009 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

CJ has improved on his D

apparently we aren’t watching the same games.

by Shells on Apr 12, 2009 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

You know,

if only u can read my mind, I was REALLY BEING SARCASTIC.
Just joking, I know CJ’s defense is horrible. Just comparing Monta’s with CJ’s because there’s are pretty close.

7

by AlbinoWhale on Apr 9, 2009 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

You forget so quickly

Monta is one of a handful of guards in the league that shot 50% or above for a season last year. The others being Steve Nash and Tony Parker. Sorry but you don’t trade away that kind of offensive efficiency. Not to mention he rebounds at a relatively high rate for a 6’3" guard. Much better than Marco, you need to check yourself fool.

It's all about the killer cross-over baby!

by warriorsfiend on Apr 9, 2009 1:20 PM PDT reply actions  

+100

Why would we want another talentless 7 footer?

by Goldenstarter on Apr 9, 2009 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Another???

Who was the first one? Unless you’re talking about PoB and Kosta.

by ZaMzAm FiRe on Apr 9, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

I picked Barangni

because who else on the Raptors roster would they give up?

7

by AlbinoWhale on Apr 9, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, they also invested a lot in him

so they wouldnt’ just give him away right now b/c that would be admitting that he is a bust. If you think we could get Bosh and Barnagni for monta + pieces, you are sorely mistaken my albino friend.

Plus he is a bust

by scwarrior24 on Apr 9, 2009 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

nah man

you said you wanted him so that he could hook with Rocky and we could have a little paisan duo.

by gametime_gsw on Apr 9, 2009 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yea

that was also included, because it’s a coincidence that Toronto has another italian so they can add with a trade.

7

by AlbinoWhale on Apr 9, 2009 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

50/50

50% chance, meaning it’s either he’s going to get traded or not going to get traded.
Doesn’t that make it 50/50?

7

by AlbinoWhale on Apr 9, 2009 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

That made me LOL in my cubicle, thanks for that

There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.

by qin on Apr 9, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

I gave you a rec for the nice little lesson

Tomorrow, I’ll either find my dream girl, or I won’t. So I have a 50% chance of doing so. Hah!

by IQofaWarrior on Apr 9, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL + green!

I feel a pie chart coming on….

Thing 1

by Sleepy Freud on Apr 9, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0

by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 10, 2009 6:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Amazing...

Too bad 100% of that pie looks nasty.

by Mr. Monday Night on Apr 10, 2009 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL + green!

I feel a pie chart coming on….

Little did you know that it would be a green pie chart.

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0

by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 14, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Okay,

you got me on that one, I shouldn’t have said 50 PERCENT.

I meant it’s ’ One way or the Other’

Not LITERALLY 50% chance .

7

by AlbinoWhale on Apr 9, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

ok supafishal i dont think you understand

if u flip a coin the chance it will stay on its side as opposed to landing and ending up in heads or tails is 50/50 :D

by farid on Apr 9, 2009 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

I gave you a rec

because that gave me a laugh also and the people who used my ‘foolish’ theory of 50/50
as 50% chance, so IQofawarrior, good luck on 50% chance of finding your dream girl.

7

by AlbinoWhale on Apr 9, 2009 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Haha, yeah, um, there's like no actual chance of that

oh wait, no, I have a 50% chance! Well, at least you’re taking it well.

by IQofaWarrior on Apr 9, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

50% chance, meaning it’s either he’s going to get traded or not going to get traded. Doesn’t that make it 50/50?

  add the possibility of voiding him and it’s 33 1/3 % That’s even more encouraging.

Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 9, 2009 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

50/50?

That’s like saying the Warriors have a 50/50 chance of winning the Finals next season.

by bObaBaLLa on Apr 9, 2009 1:38 PM PDT reply actions  

Absolutely. I don’t know why the Vegas odds people are going to put the line, but with a 50-50 shot, if they give us better than even money, go all in !

I think I’ve got a 50-50 shot of winning the state lotto. I either win or I don’t right? That’s 50-50 too! (Man, gotta remember to buy a ticket. I didn’t realize my odds were so good.)

by jae on Apr 10, 2009 6:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

buy 2 tickets! You’re guaranteed to win.

Thing A

by sam23 on Apr 10, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

as much as i want to disagree with you

Montas attitude, to me, seems different ever since he came back. he doesnt really seem happy to be here. i know they took some of his money, maybe a bridge has been burned, we’ll just have to wait and see.

by gametime_gsw on Apr 9, 2009 1:41 PM PDT reply actions  

I think

he is more pissed at himself than anything. He seems to be putting a lot of pressure on himself. Whether this is because of the money (making him think he has to be THE MAN, which he kinda does, I guess), the suspension, or just overall frustration, is not for any of us to really say. Winning and positive production, plus full health, should set his mind more at ease.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Apr 9, 2009 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

hes happy

hes just unhappy with how his season has gone, and unhappy he isnt at 100% owning people

id be unhappy too if i went from rising star to out of shape and out of playoff contention…

he’ll be back with a vengeance next season!

ellis
jackson
odom – or whatever 3 we can get for maggs/crawford/wright/belli (in some kinda combo)
randolph
andris

even tho ellis isnt a real 1 yet….i am starting to think he can get there and will get there…and i think thats the only position he can truely be effective at on both sides O and D

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawk on Apr 9, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

That would be the longest team of all time

Which is probably a good thing… but we would literally have no big bodies. Just long ones. Bigger is better, but we need a little girth…

by scwarrior24 on Apr 9, 2009 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

BLOCK PARTY!

rebounding will never be an issue again.

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawk on Apr 9, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

rebounding will never be an issue again.

 but ball handling will

Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 9, 2009 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

true...

maybe monta will expand his game…like he expanded his game and added a jump shot (which he originally was terrible at….and last year was one of the best in the league at it)

we’ll see tho….only time will tell

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawk on Apr 9, 2009 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

no big bodies?

have you seen lamar odom lately? yes he is long, but he is also pretty cut

by randolphforpresident on Apr 10, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Actually.....

Monta’s attitude has gotten way better since he took some time off with his mother. He’s been communicating with his teammates and has been laughing alot. Plus I have seen him stand up on the bench when his teammates did an amazing play.

by Richboievans on Apr 9, 2009 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I really don't consider it "his" money.

He obviously proved unable to handle the responsibility that comes along with his contract. The money he was fined I don’t consider it his. You have to prove worthy of that kind of money. No sympathy here for multi-millioniares losing some cash and still being multi-millioniares.

by jnormous on Apr 9, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

lol

youre guessing that there is an equal chance (50/50) that he will either be traded or kept? thanks for the insight. not.

"Dont come closer. I have rabies."

by TheWarrior on Apr 9, 2009 1:57 PM PDT reply actions  

No one on the team has more intense defense than Randolph

Well Turiaf might have more intense defense than Randolph but that’s not the point. Randolph is a rookie and he is trying to make a name for himself and is trying to prove himself to Nellie. Monta has already established his name in the NBA as one of the best guards. The both of them are in totally different situations.

by Richboievans on Apr 9, 2009 2:31 PM PDT reply actions  

team defense

It’s the team defense. Was Monta the one who gave Chris Paul 43 points the other day? No, because he wasn’t even playing. CJ and Jamal did. People don’t seem to understand even a Ron Artest won’t make this team be a defensive team. You would have to change the offense and have a defensive minded coach like coach like greg popovich. Yea, let’s trade Monta because of his d, LOL, when CJ and Jamal are easily worse. This fanpost just doesn’t make much sense.

by illmaticwarrior on Apr 9, 2009 2:53 PM PDT reply actions  

that was the game plan for tha t game

going under on screens and make him a shooter. and it worked perfectly. even tho he scored 43 points he wasn’t able to get other players involed because he wasn’t constantly getting to the basket.

by gametime_gsw on Apr 9, 2009 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

bellinelidaboss

or montadachump

??

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawk on Apr 9, 2009 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Like it or not Monta is our most valuable asset

I would love to trade him for a great forward (3 or 4). And Toronto and Phoenix are the best destinations.

Brandon Jennings or Ty Lawson. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.

by ejdacanay on Apr 9, 2009 4:01 PM PDT reply actions  

Everyone who is flaming me,

is either a HUGE fan of Monta’s and on Monta’s *.
Only reason I’m telling those who flamed me to get off his nuts, is cause you took this too seriously.

I’d expect to get flamed if I made a post stating:" I hate Monta Ellis, TRADE HIM PLEASE!"
Then you have the right to flame me.
I’m not an expert so you don’t have to be so hard on me.

I’m a fan of Monta too, but I made that scenario IMO, for the best of the team, and that’s defense first…

7

by AlbinoWhale on Apr 9, 2009 4:11 PM PDT reply actions  

WAAAAAAAAAA WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

how bout a whamburger and some french cries!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by nuttinbutnet on Apr 9, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

crying about what?

being flamed on my own opinion/thoughts? please man.

I was just disrespected instead of a regular Debate.
Who the hell would cry over some stupid opinions on basketball.

7

by AlbinoWhale on Apr 9, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I actually agree

Too many Monta homers.

Brandon Jennings or Ty Lawson. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.

by ejdacanay on Apr 9, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thank you

I wonder what all the Monta Homers would do if Monta did something like Baron or Harrington and asked to leave, Not saying he did or will, just a what if.

7

by AlbinoWhale on Apr 9, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

You can't make outlandish statements

And expect everyone to agree with you.

Have you been comparing Warriors games with Monta to those without? If you were paying the slightest bit of attention you would realize how much this team needs him.
Your post doesn’t really say much, basically that you think Monta will be traded and you hope that it will be for Bosh and Bargnani.

by Goldenstarter on Apr 9, 2009 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

as much as I love Monta

I wouldn’t mind him leaving.

We Believe

by RunNdGun on Apr 9, 2009 4:24 PM PDT reply actions  

Oh but Marco starting?

PLEASE
Marco is good… OFF THE BENCH
If Monta doesn’t leave , the line-up should be
PG- Monta
SG-Jackson
SF-Randolph
PF-Wright
C-Biedrins
that’s big ball
small ball =
Monta
Jackson
Azubuike
Randolph/Wright doesn’t matter
Biedrins

now if Monta leaves for mmm Bosh/Stoudamire?
Ty Lawson ( yeahh thats right!)
Jackson
Anthony Randolph
Bosh/Stoudamire
Biedrins
again thats big ball
small ball is the same but with azubuike starting at the 3

and off the bench Nash(yup,Morrow,Marco,Turiaf,Davidson,Kurz baby!,Watson,Jamal¿dont know if he’s gonna stay but

We Believe

by RunNdGun on Apr 9, 2009 4:30 PM PDT reply actions  

If Monta doesn’t leave , the line-up should be

G- Monta
SG-Jackson
SF-Randolph
PF-Wright
C-Biedrins

    Why not put our best shooter at SF and make it Montay, Jax, Morrow,Rudolf, and Dris? That puts Rudolf at the spot where he’s played the best and gives us Rony and Wright as our bigs off the bench.

Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 9, 2009 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

How about Kelenna?

Do we punish (probably) the most consistent player this season as a bench player next season?

Kelenna is mine...;>

Life is too short, give everyone a smile or a hug.

by girltothemax on Apr 9, 2009 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Do we punish (probably) the most consistent player this season as a bench player next season?

  No we make him a valuable sixth or seventh man ands play the starters less so everyone stays healthy and fresh .

Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 9, 2009 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

he can be like

terry is to dallas

an integral part of the team as a 6th man

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawk on Apr 9, 2009 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

problem is

we have too many 6th-men: Crawford, KAz, Maggette, Wright, Turiaf

and not enough stars: ______ , _______, ______ , ______ , ______

by hardcore on Apr 10, 2009 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

starters:

ellis, jackson, randolph, beidrins….we are kinda missing a 3/4

get rid of crawfish/belli/maggs/wright/cj to try to get odom and we are set for starters

ellis jackson odom randolph andris…..bench: morrow/buki/turiaf/whoevers left

imo thats a very solid lineup!

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawk on Apr 10, 2009 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

ch-ya! now, just get Odom for crawfish/belli/maggs/wright/c and we’re solid and then some – solid would be a nice place to start next training camp …

by hardcore on Apr 10, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

i wouldnt mind this lineup

as long as randolph continues to expand his game, which currently hes doing at a very fast rate

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawk on Apr 9, 2009 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

randolphforpresident

I think we need to take another look at Marco. I mean, compare him to Jackson at the SG position for next year. Both defend pretty well. Marco is younger than Jackson, doesn’t complain after every call, tries to create for his teammates (as Jackson does but while turning the ball over 4+ times a game), and has a nice shot. What does Jackson really bring to the table that Marco doesn’t? Have we all quickly forgotten how well Marco played during mid-season before he hurt his ankle? When you add in the fact that Nellie has proven to be one of the worst developers of young talent (e.g. Randolph), I think we need to at least allow Marco to get consistent minutes at the SG spot to see what he can do. This is a first round pick… I don’t think we should be so quick to dub him a bench player at best.

by randolphforpresident on Apr 10, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

When you add in the fact that Nellie has proven to be one of the worst developers of young talent (e.g. Randolph)

I think he’s done a fine job with Randolph. If there is anyone on this roster to use as an example of mishandling a young player it’s Wright.

Thing 2

by olympicmike on Apr 10, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

did people like randolphforpres forget how awful Randolph was at the start of the year. Nellie has done an outstanding job with him.

Thing A

by sam23 on Apr 10, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

dont give nellie to much credit

if it wasnt for the injuries, trust me, we would have not seen Randolph much this year.

by gametime_gsw on Apr 10, 2009 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

and you know that because……why exactly?

Thing A

by sam23 on Apr 10, 2009 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

just believe it

Sorry man, I just cant believe it. Nellie has doen a great job with Randolph outside of the bashing him in the press, he has been a dissapointment though with all the other youth, even Morrow, who should have been getting more minutes since January.

Thing B

by warriorsscore110 on Apr 12, 2009 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

outside of the bashing him in the press

Once upon a time, there was this little engine that couldn’t. Then Nellie bashed that little engine in the press saying “There’s no way we’re making the playoffs this year, we stink.” Then the little engine beat the bigger badder engine up the hill to the playoffs and followed that up by demolishing the german engineered high performance engine up the mountain in the first round of the playoffs. It’s not the first time the tactic has worked, nor will it likely be the last.

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0

by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 14, 2009 7:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

It’s not the first time the tactic has worked, nor will it likely be the last.

Good point. Whatever Nellie did it worked. Could he have it done it better, maybe. But maybe if he coddled him, Randolph would be as out of control as he was at the start of the season.

Thing B

by warriorsscore110 on Apr 14, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

What does Jackson really bring to the table that Marco doesn’t?

  experience and Gattitude?

Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 10, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

emotional leadership

we need them both. we just dont need Jack playing 40 flipin minutes everygame.

by gametime_gsw on Apr 10, 2009 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't mind trading Monta if we can have Lebron in return.

Just a wish.

Kelenna is mine...;>

Life is too short, give everyone a smile or a hug.

by girltothemax on Apr 9, 2009 5:26 PM PDT reply actions  

Not Buike!

He’s off limits.

Kelenna is mine...;>

Life is too short, give everyone a smile or a hug.

by girltothemax on Apr 9, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

you go.

Kelenna is mine...;>

Life is too short, give everyone a smile or a hug.

by girltothemax on Apr 9, 2009 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

.

=)

Kelenna is mine...;>

Life is too short, give everyone a smile or a hug.

by girltothemax on Apr 9, 2009 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Seriously

Azubuike? More like Azucutie!

by goldenstatelove on Apr 9, 2009 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

without hypotheticals there wouldn’t be much of a board…..

Thing A

by sam23 on Apr 9, 2009 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

hypothetically.

Thing 2

by olympicmike on Apr 9, 2009 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

yea I was gonna say that

Thing A

by sam23 on Apr 9, 2009 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hypothetical crap like this should be taken off the board.

then don’t post it and it won’t be here.

Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 9, 2009 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

wasted about 5 minutes of my life.

by LighTz707OuT on Apr 9, 2009 7:25 PM PDT reply actions  

Save The Whales!

To AlbinoWhales Defense.

Monta is NOT the best, nor the most important part of the team.

Let’s look at our 3 most important players:

Monta Ellis:

13 L
12 W

16 Games Were Home Games (11 Wins/5 Losses)
9 Games Were Away (1 Win/8 Losses)
64% Home Games

16.1 Efficeny Rating (Ranked 75th in NBA)

Andris Biedrins:

39 L
20 W

28 Home Games (14 Wins/14 Losses)
31 Road Games(6 Wins/25 Losses)
47% Home Games

21.2 Efficieny Rating (Rank: 22)

Stepeh Jackson:

38 L
21 W

30 Home Games (17 Wins/13 Losses)
29 Road Games (4 Wins/ 25 Losses)
51% Home Games

19.5 Efficieny Rating (Rank: 35)

Conclusion: Monta had the benefit of having almost 2/3 of his games at home and had a healthy roster in most of his games. Andirs and Jackson had roughly 50% of their games split while having sporadic injured lineups, but at the same time were alot more efficient than Monta. Keep in mind that Monta has the most lucrative contract out of the 3 and has missed the most games (JaMaal is paid 3 Mil less and has an efficiency rating of 15.9 (Ranked 77th)).

AW’s post is realistic and is plausible when he talks about Monta and the trade. Also, if a trade were to happen with Toronto, Bargnani or Kapono would have to be included and out of the 2 I would’ve chose Andrea. He does lose you a little bit when he talks of CJ’s Defense, but other than that imo the flames were not deserving.

Brandon Jennings or Ty Lawson. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.

by ejdacanay on Apr 9, 2009 7:29 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Efficiency Rating

Umm…. Not really sure how to respond to this. I’m not sure what calculations go into your “efficiency rating” but watching games (and looking at season long fg%) it’s pretty obvious that Monta is the most efficient scorer on our team. Jackson = efficient? You’ve got to be joking me. He has shot 41% for the season, while leading the nation in turnovers + technicals + stupid, lazy fouls. I mean, Biedrins makes sense because he is never more than 2 feet away from the basket when he takes his shots, but to imply that Jackson is somehow a more efficient player than Monta is just dumb.

by randolphforpresident on Apr 10, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here's the formula:
How do many NBA coaches quickly evaluate a player’s game performance? They check his efficiency.

NBA.com evaluates all players based on the efficiency formula: ((Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks) – ((Field Goals Att. – Field Goals Made) + (Free Throws Att. – Free Throws Made) + Turnovers)).

Efficiency as a whole is not all about scoring (especially for a PG). FG& and Assists and Turnovers are equally as important. Taking ill advised jumpers and three’s and being anti-clutch did not help Monta either.

I rather have efficient players than players that are wild and inefficient.

Brandon Jennings or Ty Lawson. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.

by ejdacanay on Apr 10, 2009 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

NBA efficiency is a highly, highly flawed statistic. It correlates well with all-star voting and player contracts. It is less useful for determining which players help most to improve a team’s shot at winning. It’s a low grade, easier to compute predecessor of PER, which, for its flaws, is much more useful.

The clearest flaw is that it rewards low efficiency shooters for shooting more. If Jax shot twice as much, but only made a third of his shots, his efficiency rating wouldn’t change. (You can test this for yourself, but it’s pretty clear since the positive of points scored by made fgs is exactly equal to the fg’s missed if he shoots 33% from the field on 2 point shots. Any rate higher than this and his efficiency goes up. For instance, if he shot 36% from the field on an additional 6 shots a game, his efficiency would rise to 20. Since shooting 36% from the field is really, really terrible but NBA eff. still would reward it, I reject it as a useful measure for high vol. shooters.

by jae on Apr 10, 2009 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

There are some flaws, but PER is a good and imo a reliable source that can be used to evaluate a team’s players. NBA.com’s top 10 most efficient/PER players are the top 10 players in the game today.

The clearest flaw is that it rewards low efficiency shooters for shooting more.

I tried doing the formula on my own to test this out and I think you are wrong on that account.

Jackson’s average per game for the first part of the equation (Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks) is 34.3. Now to test what you say:

NBA’s PER: (17 (Shots Per Game) – 7 (41% FG)) + (6 (FT’s a Game) – 5 (80% FT) + 4 T/O’s). The 2nd sum of the equation equals 15. 3
34.3 – 15 gives Jax a 19.3 Efficiency Rating

33% Shooting on an additional 7 Shots per game: (24-8 + 6-5 + 4) = (16+1+4) = 21
36.3 (Adjusted +2 Points)-21= 15.3 Efficiency Rating.

So the formula does penalize shooters with lower FG%’s.

Brandon Jennings or Ty Lawson. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.

by ejdacanay on Apr 10, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think the point is

That PER doesn’t penalize volume shooters enough.

PER and Efficiency may be “good” and “reliable” and all, but from the perspective of a team’s front office, they’re pretty pointless, as all they do is regurgitate stuff that’s already included in a player’s pricetag. If you’re interested in bang for your buck (or for your tradeable assets), it behooves you to take a more moneyball approach to player evaluation — finding metrics and of inquiry that tend to correlate to wins but not to fame and acclaim. PER and Efficiency are almost useless in this respect.

I’m fairly certain that jae would do a much better job of putting together a winning team than most current NBA GMs with their old-school scouting and “traditional” metrics. There are guys as smart and savvy as him in baseball FOs (Billy Beane and Theo Epstein and their ilk) but moneyball in hoops is still in its embryonic stage. In baseball terms, a lot of NBA GMs still think that triple crown stats (batting average, HR and RBI) are as important when evaluating a hitter as OBP, and that a pitcher’s W-L is as important as his K/BB.

Thing 1

by Sleepy Freud on Apr 10, 2009 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m fairly certain that jae would do a much better job of putting together a winning team than most current NBA GMs with their old-school scouting and "traditional" metrics.

 I doubt it because he doesn’t understand the people aspect of team work and chemistry. One can’t take stats in a vacuum and guarantee they will play together with other stats. Players have to like one another , respect each other, and be happy with their situation for the stats to mean anything going forward.

Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 10, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

You really have zero idea what I do and do not understand of the ‘people aspects’, Skeptic. Please don’t pretend you can read my mind. Please don’t pretend you know anything about me in that regard when you so most certainly don’t.

Actually, the better evidence is that stats, in a vacuum (after brushing themselves off from all the dust and dog hair that clogged up the vacuum) perform very, very well and that the ‘chemistry’ and ‘team work’ don’t have nearly as much effect as many think. Statistics in basketball are very good predictors of future success and they don’t tend to vary much with teammate changes as would be expected if ‘chemistry’ and ‘teamwork’ were overly important.

The stats do mean something. Only the truly ignorant discount statistics and most people who say they don’t matter still rely on them, though they tend to be overly impressed with some (like points per game, which is, after all, a statistic) and ignorant of more than that.

But believe what you will

by jae on Apr 10, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

The stats do mean something. Only the truly ignorant discount statistics and most people who say they don’t matter still rely on them, though they tend to be overly impressed with some

The problem is not the stats themselves, but understanding them, and what they are worth.

Thing B

by warriorsscore110 on Apr 12, 2009 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

The stats do mean something.

 Yeah, they show what has happened with each player in that particular mix of players that year but they don’t show what might happen with a different mix of players next year, and remember we are building a team not players. Like a stockmarket chart stats look clear in the rear view mirror but are only a rough guide to the road ahead Sure I can usually make a good guess from a chart but knowing the chemistry and teamwork of the company is a lot better.

Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 12, 2009 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would guess that taking a bunch of

productive players and put them toghether would work better than adding bunch of random players toghether because they ‘mesh’ better with each other.

Thing B

by warriorsscore110 on Apr 12, 2009 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

The guide is far, far better than rough. I know you don’t believe this. It’s entirely your right to be ignorant. And there’s zero evidence that ‘knowing the chemistry and teamwork’ is better other than that you say it is so.

by jae on Apr 12, 2009 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Haha
It’s entirely your right to be ignorant.

Jae, you’ve needed a sig line for a while, and I’m pretty sure that this one would be awesome.

Thing 2

by olympicmike on Apr 12, 2009 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

It’s entirely your right to be ignorant.

 Is that like the pot calling the kettle black?

Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 12, 2009 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is that like the pot calling the kettle black?

No.

by jae on Apr 13, 2009 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Why not? What make the pot so special?

Is he a religious fanatic?

Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 13, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

And there’s zero evidence that ‘knowing the chemistry and teamwork’ is better other than that you say it is so.

Well, there’s also little evidence to say that chemistry and teamwork aren’t important to a team either. Unless you been around a given team it’s hard to know how their chemistry is working just based on stats but if you’ve ever played or coached a team sport you know it matters cause you’ve seen it affect you own teams.

Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 12, 2009 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have coached, Skeptic. I have also studied the psychology of sport beyond the casual fan glance. I’ve worked with elite athletes, world champions and gold medalists. I’m aware of the psychological aspects of sport. Actually there is evidence that chemistry beyond the production of the individual parts isn’t as important as what a player has done in the past on his own. There doesn’t seem to be some predictable formula for “chemistry” that indicates that it’s something that can regularly be generated, that it’s something that a team-builder can depend upon.

In basketball, predictions on the success of a team based entirely on the individual statistical performance of the players on the team including those acquired from other teams, are rather good. They account for more than 70% of the variation in a team’s record. If you can explain more than 70% of something with just the numbers, you’re doing a very, very good job. You want to chalk the rest up to ‘chemistry’ (at the expense of any room for chance — things like injuries, etc.)? You’re again free to do so, but please don’t pretend that you know what you’re talking about when you attribute so much to chemistry and pretend that this is some mystical nonsense. Please don’t pretend that there’s some overarching principle of ‘chemistry’ and ‘teamwork’ that encompasses so much that if you don’t subscribe to the ScU vision of it, that you’ll be hopelessly lost in predicting how a team will do because it’s simply not true. I know you don’t believe it (and I suspect strongly that you simply don’t understand it) but that doesn’t make it less true. You’re just embarrassing yourself, opening up your ignorance for the world. You’d really do much better if you tried to do something more than insist something was so and believed that your insistence matters. It doesn’t. Real research is far more difficult that chalking things up to your own gut feeling, but it opens up many, many doors.

by jae on Apr 13, 2009 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

They account for more than 70% of the variation in a team’s record. If you can explain more than 70% of something with just the numbers, you’re doing a very, very good job.

 Haha, 70 % ? Anyone can watch a group of players for 10 minutes and be 70% right about who’s the best without adding up one number.
   I don’t doubt that numbers don’t lie, I’m a surveyor, but I also know that just cause it’s on paper don’t mean it will fit when we go out to stake it.

Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 13, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

also have coached, and have a degree in Psych … would add that bad chemistry is more influencial than good chemistry – obviously good chemistry is the ideal but bad chemistry can be a cancer and diminish the expected returns prior performance would suggest should be expected

… a screener only has to let up a bit that allows the defense to get through, a PG only has to hold the pass a half count to prevent the SG from getting a good look, the wing only has to not make the post entry once or twice in a game and take a 1×2 drive to the hoop instead, etc. Meanwhile, the journeyman or “glue” player who sets the great screen to free the shooter, screens out the opponent’s best rebounder, or the defender who provides just enough help defense to stop the drive may never show up in the stat sheet (other than +/- perhaps), nonetheless you know they are just as essential to the success of the team …

have always respected, and occasionally been awed by your statistical analysis jae, particularly your penchant for emphasizing the importance of rebounding, but there is a place for skep‘s chemistry argument, even if it isn’t supported as strong statistically as your regular posts are … neither to the exclusion of the other tells the whole story of a team’s success, or failure …

by hardcore on Apr 14, 2009 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

there is a place for skep‘s chemistry argument, even if it isn’t supported as strong statistically as your regular posts are …

Chemistry will show up in the stats as better performance as it evolves but chemistry is more a leading indicator if it can be recognized soon enough.

Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 14, 2009 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

I just think better player equals better team.

and Worse players will equal worse team. Stephan Marbury aside, most players will generally suck it up and do their part if they are on a team that is contending for a title.

Thing B

by warriorsscore110 on Apr 15, 2009 12:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

true, you do run into some correlation/causation problems when trying to examine success and chemistry.

Thing A

by sam23 on Apr 15, 2009 6:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

The reality though seems that good players=good team and that the team is almost always pretty close to the sum of its parts. There are very few players (or unique combination of players) who actually substantially elevate the performance of their teammates.

by jae on Apr 15, 2009 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

hmm I’m rec’ing this because it may provide a few more clues in the “guess jae’s former profession” game. All contestants take note. jae, more hints are welcome.

Thing A

by sam23 on Apr 15, 2009 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

Haha

I thought I was the only one weird enough to think that when I read his post.

Thing 2

by olympicmike on Apr 15, 2009 1:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’m much more interested in my future profession. Unemployment is getting boring.

by jae on Apr 15, 2009 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

K,

maybe jae can find the special mix of players to win a championship, but I guarantee he doesnt sign Derek Fisher to a ridiculous deal, or extend Dunleavey or JRich to those type of deals before they even hit the market. The point is to find efficent productive players and offer them a reasonable salary.

Thing B

by warriorsscore110 on Apr 12, 2009 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

The constant cry in basketball is “basketball is different than baseball. There’s 5 guys playing against 5 guys, not 1 on 1 like hitting” and then to disregard any attempt at actually working past this (or seeing if it even matters in terms of the statistical predictions. If Lewis is to be believed, the Rockets are working at this now and their success when Yao was out might not be so tough to explain in this light. Their under-appreciated players weren’t really playing that much over their heads if you looked past the glory stats and the conventional wisdom of how ‘stars’ perform.

Someone will figure this out because there’s money to be made in winning and it will probably take some time for others to catch on. That’s the way it’s happened in baseball They’ll at first chalk it up to luck or “chemistry”, but eventually.

It probably won’t win championships on its own because the best, most productive players are easy to recognize anyhow (and all methods regard them as such), but it can help marginal teams become more than that, by finding the bargains. It really might work better in basketball than in baseball as such since the salary cap puts more of premium on making sound financial decisions and finding bargains and inefficiencies in the market for production and exploiting those inefficiencies.

For what it’s worth, I’d never argue doing without scouting. I I wouldn’t be better at it myself than the average fan (I over-rate any former Tar Heel for starters), but it’s always good to see if there’s a reason that might explain particular numbers. I do believe though that if you had to choose between watching the players and not ever keeping track of any statistics vs. using the stats and ignoring what you see on the court that the stats will on average outperform the scouts over and over again.

by jae on Apr 10, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Firstly, it’s not NBA’s “PER”. PER is a particular formula that Hollinger developed. This is NBA efficiency. The two are not the same, though both have a similar fault.

You made a mathematical error. You did not properly credit him for points scored. You only gave him credit for another 2 points scored when he makes more than 2 extra baskets. Since a basket is worth 2 points…

[Interestingly enough, your error is far, far closer to the actual impact, but that’s a tangent I don’t have time for, but it has to do with the opportunity cost for taking the shot.]

(I’m not going to round to the nearest since this is on average and it’s not actually possible to shoot 33% on precisely 7 shots but over the course of the season, it can be an average).

His positives:
points (20.7) + rebounds (5.1) + assists (6.5) + steals (1.5) + blocks (0.5) = 34.3
and negatives
misses (9.9) + missFT (1.0) + turnovers (3.9) = 14.8

34.3-14.8 = 19.5 NBAeff

You appear have rounded the misses and turnovers in the orginal equation, but otherwise we’re on the same page so far.

Now if he shot an additional 7 shots (on average) and made a third of them he’d score (on average) he’s make an additional an addition 2.3 baskets (from .33*7) and score another 4.6 points (2.3 *2 points per basket) and have an additional 4.7 misses (7 *0.67; since a 33% shooter misses 67% percent of the time).

The new equation is
points (20.7+*4.6*) + rebounds (5.1) + assists (6.5) + steals (1.5) + blocks (0.5) = 38.9
and negs
misses (9.9+4.7) + missFT (1.0) + turnovers (3.9) = 19.5
38.9 – 19.5 = 19.4 (not 15.3)

That 0.1 decline while shooting 33% goes when you don’t round the figures to a single decimal point and the figures come out equal. That’s the break even point. There is no penalty for firing away more shots if you hit a third of them (scoring 2 points each time you do). If you shoot better than 33%, you can shoot terribly and actually see your NBAeff go up.

by jae on Apr 10, 2009 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

I should add that assists are not equally important to points or rebounds at least in terms of how they affect the probability of the team winning games, unless you do not give credit to the guy who scores points on an assisted basket. As NBA efficiency works, they’re giving 3 points for a made 2 point shot with an assist (albeit split between different players). The two points scored are no more valuable than if someone scored them unassisted, but in that case, only the points are awarded. It’s a significant flaw as well.

by jae on Apr 10, 2009 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

And I'd realistically trade Monta for one/some of the following:

Draft Picks
Salary Relief
Good Forward
Good Vision PG

Brandon Jennings or Ty Lawson. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.

by ejdacanay on Apr 9, 2009 7:39 PM PDT reply actions  

lol

a draft pick? in this draft? pass….

by saintdee on Apr 10, 2009 12:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

This post,

is mainly because Monta has been brought to trade rumors before, and rumors saying he might not be a Warrior by next season.
I don’t hate him at all and want to kick him out of this team, just asking for opinions about what will happen to Monta as a Warrior come the offseason/next season.

Girltothemax: Good thing I didn’t make this post about Buike, he is the Last person on this team to be mentioned in a trade.

7

by AlbinoWhale on Apr 9, 2009 8:20 PM PDT reply actions  

AR > Buike

Brandon Jennings or Ty Lawson. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.

by ejdacanay on Apr 9, 2009 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yea

I never mentioned AR in trades, so he’s first.

7

by AlbinoWhale on Apr 9, 2009 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Exactamundo
Girltothemax: Good thing I didn’t make this post about Buike, he is the Last person on this team to be mentioned in a trade.

He’s just too reliable to be traded.

Kelenna is mine...;>

Life is too short, give everyone a smile or a hug.

by girltothemax on Apr 9, 2009 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wright over Randolph

I cant believe the people who are all over AR jock. I like Randolph but im not going to say future superstar because he hasnt shown any ability to take over a game or get double teamed or make any kind of post move or hit a 3 or cross someone up. He can rebound and he can block shots so please stop saying future superstar or will be in the allstar game because he not even close.

Now Monta needs to stay in a warriors uniform no doubt about it and If Amare or Bosh became available they would want youth with alot of potential like Andris, Morrow, Randolph, Wright and Marco

Monta stay please we love your play and we believe in you

by Warriorfan on Apr 9, 2009 8:55 PM PDT reply actions  

I like Randolph but im not going to say future superstar because he hasnt shown any ability to take over a game or get double teamed or make any kind of post move or hit a 3 or cross someone up

You’re forgetting that Randolph is a rookie. Now I’m not saying that he’s gonna be a superstar for sure or anything. I’m just saying he needs time to develop. I personally think that he’s gonna be such a booosssss in the future. He has a lot of raw talent! (: He’s improved so much this year too. In the first half of the season, I really didn’t like him. He made a lot of dumb mistakes. But he’s improved (: So all those things you listed that he can’t do, he might be able to do in the future. Just don’t close the book on him

Azubuike? More like Azucutie!

by goldenstatelove on Apr 9, 2009 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

they both are going to be equaly as good

not superstars but solid NBA players. but theyll never be the same kind of player, i dont know if Randolph will ever develop a legit post game where Wright can score inside on anybody, right now. Wright can also rebound just as good as Randolph. BW doesnt bring the energy that AR brings tho, nor the playmaking ability.

by gametime_gsw on Apr 10, 2009 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wright can also rebound just as good as Randolph

thats just not true… the statistics show its not true and just by watching games and seeing how many times Wright doesn’t establish inside position on the defensive glass, thus giving the opposition easy putbacks, says its not true.

by randolphforpresident on Apr 10, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

+1

I think that Brandan’s getting a raw deal from Nellie, but on the boards, there’s absolutely no comparison. Brandan at his best approaches an average rebounder for his position. He’s pretty good on the offensive boards but not so good on defense. Randolph is showing that he has potential to be a genuine rebounding power, and could emerge among the tops in the league.

by jae on Apr 10, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

if we could only keep one of them

i’m keeping Randoph. He gets rebounds on just athletic ability and hustle. But also like Randolph, Brandon can grab rebounds over Biedrins and as you well know, beans is one of the best.

by gametime_gsw on Apr 10, 2009 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wright cant rebound for if his life depend on it.

AR could rebounds and blks at the same time. I think the other reason why Nellie is playing AR more is that he play like C-webb. Well we all how Nellie mess up with him back than. He made sure he doesn’t make the same mistake twice.

by warriorfan4life on Apr 12, 2009 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

He made sure he doesn’t make the same mistake twice.

  Nellie likes to make the same mistake more than twice. How many years has he coached his system without a ring?

Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 12, 2009 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wright is an adequate rebounder. Saying that “Wright cant rebound for if his life depend on it (sic)” is hyperbole. It’s suggests that he’s truly terrible at it, but that’s not actually the case.

by jae on Apr 12, 2009 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

He can rebound and he can block shots...

Wow, if you’ve been watching Randolph all season and can’t tell that this guy is our future star then you are just a bad judge of talent. First off, he is probably our best rebounder, as a rookie. He has the best jumping ability and is probably the most athletic on our team. He defends the rim really well. His mid-range shot is getting more consistent and he can finish at the rim like nobody else on our team. Give him an off-season to develop some low post moves and this guy will be dominant.

Also, you title your post Wright over Randolph like Wright has done all of these things you say Randolph hasn’t done: take over a game (no), double teamed (no) post move (yes thats the one area of Wright’s game that is better than Randolph’s right now), hit a 3 (no), and cross someone up (no.) Wright is also a much worse defender than Randolph and maybe most importantly, doesn’t have anywhere near the kind of fire and drive that Randolph possesses.

by randolphforpresident on Apr 10, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Randolph is potential

A whole lot of people have potential until i see more then rebounding and intesity im not calling anyone a future star or superstar unlike alot of people here. There are so many wholes in his game right now for people to throw out he would be a Small Forward is a joke, for being the best finisher at the rim is a joke, and being better then Wright right now is a joke. I’ve seen acouple times where they gave the rook a chance to isolation and he doesnt convert every time. Potential yes future superstar not even close to being a troy murphy yet

by Warriorfan on Apr 10, 2009 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

being better then Wright right now is a joke

No, it’s not.

I’m a Wright believer. He’s a good and underrated player… his strengths significantly outweigh his weaknesses. Brandan Wright will be a pretty decent starting power forward for the first team that gives him that chance.

But it shouldn’t be us, because Randolph’s better. Wright still has the edge offensively… Randolph still makes a number of mistakes on that end, which Wright really doesn’t. But Randolph’s the better defender — Wright makes more mistakes on that end — and the rebounding gap between the two is huge. It’s not that Wright is a terrible rebounder — it’s that Randolph is a spectacular rebounder. We’re not talking about a good rebounder or an above-average rebounder… we’re talking about a top-ten-in-the-league rebounder.

The top rebounders on a per-minute basis this season, excluding guys who’ve played 100 minutes or less:

1. Dwight Howard, 18.6 RP48
2. Andris Biedrins, 18.1 RP48
3. Marcin Gortat, 17.9 RP48
4. Joel Przybilla, 17.4 RP48
5. Marcus Camby, 17.2 RP48
6. Kevin Love, 17.1 RP48
7. Samuel Dalembert, 16.7 RP48
8. Troy Murphy, 16.7 RP48
9. David Lee, 16.0 RP48
10. Anthony Randolph, 15.9 RP48

It’s quite possible that Randolph’s even better than that. Biedrins got hurt against Phoenix on February 6th, leaving Randolph as our backup center. Randolph warmed to that role more than anybody could’ve reasonably imagined, really committing to playing like a big for the first time. In the 27 games since then, Randolph has averaged 17.0 rebounds per 48 minutes, which would place him seventh in the league over the course of a full season. Randolph’s also eighth in the league in blocked shots per minute, and he even racks up many more steals than the average big man. Good defense obviously involves a lot more than blocks, steals and defensive rebounds, but Randolph does a lot of positive things, and he doesn’t make a lot of defensive mistakes. His main issue is fouling too much, which is a real issue, but an area in which most young bigs improve. And in the last couple weeks, he’s shown that he’s learning how to stay on the court.

Brandan Wright deserves better than what he’s gotten here. He’s a good player. But Anthony Randolph is better, and for reasons having to do with production, not potential.

by onlxn on Apr 10, 2009 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Great post...

Nice breakdown. I think Brandan has a chance to be a really special player offensively which is something I don’t really see in Randolph. But having said that I totally agree with your take on the situation. Randolph impacts the game in a lot of ways. If only we had an expiring contract (Jackson? Harrington?) to package with Brandan and a high draft pick we might nab a real star player. : (

Rec.

Thing 2

by olympicmike on Apr 10, 2009 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Its done with,

I thinking, what can we do if we pop the number 1 or 2 pick in the draft. Griffin or Rubio might be great but never underestimate the ‘potential’ factor of a young player and how a team might grossly over pay for that. The #1 pick+Wright+Belinelli+one of the undesirables. We could definelty pull Bosh for that, maybe better…..

Thing B

by warriorsscore110 on Apr 12, 2009 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd rather have a 12-15 years of Griffen than 6-9 of Bosh...

Plus there’s no guarantee that Bosh would re-sign with us.

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0

by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 14, 2009 7:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

While Griffen will most likely be a good player,

there is no guarantee that he will be close to the elite caliber of player that Chris Bosh is. As good as Griffen looks, if we do get the number 1 pick, I think the team should atleast explore the option of trading him, hopefully with of the 3 undesirable contracts we have and see what we can extract from a team. I am fully aboard the Rubio band wagon, I would love to see the Warriors flip the first for the second(this is all hypotheical, and based on us winning the lottery of course) and getting another first next year in the deal.

Thing B

by warriorsscore110 on Apr 14, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm just not really that keen on Chris Bosh to begin with

It wouldn’t be a terrible move I guess, but that’s COMPLETELY contingent on whether we can get Bosh to re-sign with us for a reasonable contract without having to go all “Maggette” on him to lure him away from more desirable destinations. Would you really trade the #1 pick for a possible rental of a second tier star? No thank you.

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0

by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 14, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

The reasonable contract that Bosh will insist upon is a max contract with max raises for the maximum limit that a contract can run.

by jae on Apr 14, 2009 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Two questions for you two:

1. Will Bosh want to stay in the bay?
2. Will Monta///Bosh/Biedrins with Randolph/Buke/Turiaf off the bench contend for a championship? (I’m figuring the “??” slots are filled with two of Maggette/Jax/Crawfart)

I just don’t see that lineup contending for a championship. It’s a very good team, but it’s still second tier. We’d make the second round of the playoffs and lose to the Kobes. Clearly, the two of you think much more highly of Bosh than I do.

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0

by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 14, 2009 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Weak...

The part were it says “Monta///Bosh/Biedrins” should have “??” between the three dashes… to represent “the undesirables”. Somebody should put their heads on one of “The Untouchables” posters.

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0

by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 14, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Actually...
Clearly, the two of you think much more highly of Bosh than I do.

I think that JAE is on record saying that while Bosh will demand that much money, he is not actually worth that much. He doesn’t think he is the kind of guy you can build a championship team around. I tend to agree. He is better than anyone we have, but he doesn’t make us an instant title contender unless we can get him for next to nothing in a trade, which we can’t.

Going forward, having a guy on your roster who makes Max money and isn’t a real max money player could cause some problems.

Thing 2

by olympicmike on Apr 14, 2009 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

1. Will Bosh want to stay in the bay?

I have no idea. There’s no way I make a trade for him though without having worked with him and his agent to see what it’s going to take, if not outright getting him to sign an extension (which has some interesting timing and I’m not sure exactly when that can happen).

2. Will Monta///Bosh/Biedrins with Randolph/Buke/Turiaf off the bench contend for a championship? (I’m figuring the "??" slots are filled with two of Maggette/Jax/Crawfart)

I doubt it. It would take great strides from both Bosh (who is already very good) or Monta to take that from a pernennial 6-3 seed (which rarely contends) and turn them into contenders. It would take that or Randolph really developing into a front line force.

Don’t take my comments about what Bosh will command to be an endorsement on my end. It’s what he’ll insist on and what some team will offer. This doesn’t mean he’s worth that in terms of the wins he brings back to the team.

by jae on Apr 14, 2009 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

The reasonable contract that Bosh will insist upon is a max contract

Clearly I have misconstrued what you meant by this, but when I read the adjective “reasonable” followed by the noun “contract that Bosh will insist upon”, I will assume that you are suggesting that “the contract Bosh will insist upon” is “reasonable”. If you wanted to suggest otherwise, you should have used your grammar differently. :-P

Or you could at least explain yourself in a sensible manner later in your post. Keep in mind that sarcasm doesn’t exactly translate over the internet. Now that I know your opinion on the matter, I can tell that you meant “reasonable” to be low, drawn out, and dripping with sarcasm. Without that knowledge, it’s much harder to tell when you’re being sarcastic.

Your point is my point exactly. Bosh is going to demand a “Maggette level” 20-30% overpay for his talents… which leaves us with a 1 year rental of a really good but not great player or an even worse contract than Maggette’s was in the first place.

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0

by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 14, 2009 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

My grammar was a bit clunky. Bosh will think a max contract reasonable, as will some other team. But I don’t think it’s analogous to a Maggette situation in that I don’t think it’s even just a case of a bad destination having to pony up more to get him. I think that a desirable destination will offer max money or something damn close even if that’s overpaying for what they’ll get in return. If he’s paired with another real, real good player one who is better than him, it could work and the move won’t look universally dumb. If he’s the centerpiece and his max salary means he’s going to remain the best player on the team, it’s not a wise move, even if it’s one that some GMs will be willing to make.

by jae on Apr 14, 2009 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

If he’s the centerpiece and his max salary means he’s going to remain the best player on the team, it’s not a wise move

With a couple of solid piece(Biedrins and Ellis) and few nice role players(Turiaf, Jackson, Azibuike, Randolph) we can be a player in the wester conference. Championships? maybe not. But that is still a good team that might be able to be tweaked to the point that it might be the class of the west.

Thing B

by warriorsscore110 on Apr 15, 2009 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

I was referencing Maggette RE: overpaying for him

I don’t think he’s worth max money. If we can get a few players like Andris to take less than they produce, that’d counteract the overpay for Bosh. If one of them is a super-stud, we’d have a legit shot. But paying Bosh max money is still a vast over pay for his talents. He’s good, don’t get me wrong. But he alone doesn’t give us a championship, while giving him max money ensures that we won’t be able to do anything in the future to make that next step.

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0

by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 15, 2009 6:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

1. once we have him on the roster, no one can offer him as much as we can, correct? if so, if the max contract is worth it we should be able to make a “reasonable” guess as to what that’s going to be now before we make the deal, and may not even need an assurance that he’d take an extension

2. well, I’d settle for contending for a WCF cause you never know when a championship – quality team suffers an injury to their star, and you’re right there to take advantage

Bosh + Monta and an improved AR could get us to the WCF level all other things being equal …

by hardcore on Apr 14, 2009 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

The reasonable contract that Bosh will insist upon is a max contract with max raises for the maximum limit that a contract can run.

 Haha, but if Bosh wants a “maximum” contract how do you then give a “reasonable” one to someone worth more?

Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 14, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

“Reasonable” should have been in quotes. As so often is the case, sarcasm gets lost here on the Interweb.

by jae on Apr 14, 2009 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

thats a tough one….. I really dont know…..If getting Bosh also results in dumping Maggette’s contract, I’d probably take the trade.

Thing A

by sam23 on Apr 15, 2009 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nicely done onlxn,
But it shouldn’t be us, because Randolph’s better

Sums it up, BWright is a good player and other teams will come calling. Who can we get if we package Marco, BW, and one of the undesirables?

Thing B

by warriorsscore110 on Apr 12, 2009 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Have to factor that

Everyone rebounds well with/against the Warriors because they jack up so many more shots. I can remember Dorrel WRight from the Miami Heat having 20 pts and 18 rebounds against us. I dont think he ever had a 12+ rebound game in his life prior to that game.

by sjboy on Apr 17, 2009 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

great post

dont listen to the hating. alot of people are like simon cowell and dont ever make posts or act creative. sick of it.

by montadaboss on Apr 9, 2009 10:20 PM PDT reply actions  

You sure were “acting creative” on your post up there regarding Morrow/Beli’s ages ;)

by antihero on Apr 10, 2009 1:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Pwning his ankle with his Moped?

Brandon Jennings or Ty Lawson. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.

by ejdacanay on Apr 10, 2009 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

This Thread is full to the brim with ROFL P@WNAGE!!

This made me bust a gut at work. Do your thing albino whale, just use spell check in the future so some of the peeps on this board don’t flambay you.

by meximocha on Apr 10, 2009 6:55 AM PDT reply actions  

just use spell check in the future so some of the peeps on this board don’t flambay you.

flambay?

Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 10, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

not again..

How bout we actually keep a guy we drafted with all star potential for once? I can’t handle seeing another player leave the Warriors and turn into an all star, especially not Monta.

Monta screwed up bad, but let’s at least give him a full season to see if he can be the player the Warriors were hoping for when they gave him that contract.

by sjsnider on Apr 10, 2009 10:19 AM PDT reply actions  

coming from the guy who says...

“i know you’re right and im wrong, but im just gonna continue you on with my opinion stubbornly”

"so much losers" - hiero

by montamazing on Apr 11, 2009 1:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

Actually you idiot

I don’t think I’m right or wrong. I just have my opinion.

by Golden Boy on Apr 11, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

lol...

hear comes the name calling…

actually, i remember you specifically saying that “im probably wrong, but i believe what i believe anyway”…lol

"so much losers" - hiero

by montamazing on Apr 11, 2009 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not really,

its just you have a pattern of saying ridiculuos things, its not that really hard to documet. Sometimes I re-read what you have to say and I have to do double take and wonder ‘is this guy serious’. It makes it more likely to stick in my mind.

By the way, Thing B, lets go man, Im sure you can pull out the ol’ thesauras and find some juvenile word that starts with the letter B. : )

Thing B

by warriorsscore110 on Apr 12, 2009 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good news!
I don’t think I’m right

Neither does anyone else.

Thing A

by sam23 on Apr 12, 2009 2:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thing A?

Thing Asshole? Sure suits you well.

by Golden Boy on Apr 12, 2009 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

meh

Hey, keep trying though. You’ll get ahold of this ‘humor’ thing one of these days. Ha, you begin your reply with “Actually you idiot…” but I’m the a-hole? hmmmmm….. I can"t wait to see what kind of an intelligent response you come up with now, I hope its some more good ol’ fashion name calling!

Thing A

by sam23 on Apr 12, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm waiting too

And I can’t wait to see if a miracle happens and one day you act your age and not your shoe size.

by Golden Boy on Apr 12, 2009 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Haha.

Mass-murderer, actually. Just like Sam23, and everyone else here who calls you out on your constant whining, babbling, flaming, and BS.

And … we’re all plotting to mass-murder you!!! XD

Thing 1

by Sleepy Freud on Apr 12, 2009 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

hahaha

Wow…. he seriously just called you a pedophile. You win.

Thing A

by sam23 on Apr 12, 2009 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

And … we’re all plotting to mass-murder you!!! XD

why not just pee on him?

Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 12, 2009 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

lol...

or that

"so much losers" - hiero

by montamazing on Apr 12, 2009 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sleepy..

That picture has made me laugh out loud three different times now as I scrolled past it. That’s too perfect.

Thing 2

by olympicmike on Apr 12, 2009 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I Know What You Mean

I wouldn’t mind trading Monta. He can score but he is terrible on D. He does not care for it at all and he has not improved on that yet in his young basketball life. He catches and asthma attack when he hears the word of Defense. Adries is by far more necessary. He averages almost a double double and he knows his role. You can replace scoring. And people forget Monta was not the first option last year…. Not even the second. So he can shoot the open jumpshot without any problem this year but with all the guards coming to the draft this year I would trade Monta and pieces in a heartbeat to an Amare or Bosh. Than we could draft a guard of your choice (Prefer Jru because he is not a shoot first guard and plays D but I would love Flynn because of his court vision). If we can get something worthywhile for Monta lets do it and get on with being optimistic about the 2009-2010 Playoff/Title Run

by The Dedication on Apr 10, 2009 12:59 PM PDT reply actions  

monta was actually quite a good defender when he was a rookie, so there clearly is potential there for him...

“you can replace scoring”….true, but you can’t replace efficient scoring…monta being one of the most efficient scorers in the league for his position.

replacing monta’s 20 ppg with crawfords 20ppg makes this team much worse…

as we’ve seen with monta out

"so much losers" - hiero

by montamazing on Apr 11, 2009 1:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

Good Point.,

on the “efficient scoring”, but we won without Monta in the Lineup several times, against good opponents too, can’t remember who, but I remember they were a playoff team I think. The Jazz I think.

Yes, Efficient scoring is always a good thing to have, but wouldn’t you rather have efficient scoring coming from not only surrounding one player, Monta, but from good ball movement which makes the whole team score efficiently?
- and Replacing Monta and Crawfords 20ppg will make the team much worse? I don’t know abut that.
I said before, they won without both of them multiple times, and also, it’s not always about how much you score when you can give up even more than you average.

7

by AlbinoWhale on Apr 11, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

and Replacing Monta and Crawfords 20ppg will make the team much worse?

That’s not what he said. Not replacing Monta AND Crawford, but replacing Monta WITH Crawford. Crawford has for his career taken more shots to score his points than Monta has, meaning that he requires more possessions to score his points. Since no one else can score on those FGAs that he misses, Crawford’s volume shooting cuts into the potential production of teammates, making the team less productive.

It’s not just about how much you score, but how many chances it takes for you to score the points. While people talk about “shot creation” what they really mean is “good shot creation”. Shots happen on virtually every possession and holding back the chuckers does not decrease the number of FGA’s a team takes. It just means someone else takes the shot. (Some speculate that it means more 24sec violations and possessions ending in turnovers, but this appears to be almost inconsequential as observed in cases where high vol. shooters have to leave lineups for a while in cases of injury. The shots just get taken by the guys on the court in almost all cases.) The only way to increase the number of shots a team takes is to do a better job of rebounding the misses and avoiding turnovers, which means that the actual shots a player takes are important. A bad shot taken is a shot that another teammate cannot take.

It’s true that defense weighs in. I haven’t noticed Crawford shutting down, or even slowing down anyone, so in a Crawford or Monta defensive eval, I’ll give it to Monta for simple fact that he’s a better rebounder. (I also really question Crawford’s effort as his ridiculously low foul rate suggests to me that he’s not active enough to even pick up the incidental fouls.) Since, barring turnovers, defensive rebounds are required to get a defensive stop, this means Monta’s at least contributing mildly more when he gets rebounds since it’s the finishing touch on a missed shot, even if he wasn’t directly responsible for forcing the miss. The statistics support this though rate both as poor defenders. I don’t know if the sample size is really significant for Monta for it to be entirely accurate, but the on/off court defensive efficiency differential for Crawford is absolutely terrible. Interestingly, the team is almost a competent defensive team when he’s on the bench.

by jae on Apr 11, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

sorry

my mistake, i read wrong. Thank you for correcting me.

7

by AlbinoWhale on Apr 11, 2009 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

ellis' efficiency hasn't been the same

this year, as we all know. Your analysis jae as usual is impeccable and you’re smart enough to suspect that he’s not going to sustain the offensive efficiency he did last season if they don’t have better offensive ball movement or some other serious scoring source to concern opposing defenses. Against weaker teams ‘the old ellis’ will reappear, but leaving personnel much like it is I see another .500, 8th-10th place team. ellis is so much a one-sided player, if his offensive efficiency slips down and he doesn’t move the ball to his ‘mates (he’s overly fond since his high school days of having them watch how great he is), his contribution to wins becomes negligible though his scoring stats superficially could look good. [there were losses this year when he scored in the 20’s with a per-shot-attempt efficiency of <1] Ball movement would improve everyone’s efficiency including ellis’.

There are various means to efficiency as you know, it just that the woe-yrs haven’t had or used some of the more conventional ones, like lock down d, offensive rebounding, low post scoring. Too often they relied on 3-pt. shooting. They finally got to improving their free throws, which ranks high in efficiency.

by the.monk on Apr 11, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Warriors are shooting FTs better, but more importantly, they’re getting to the line. Far, FAR more important that FT% is how often a team gets to the line for improving offensive efficiency. Hitting 60% from the line is terrible, but getting to the line and shooting that well almost always improves a team’s scoring efficiency since the average payoff is greater than shooting 60% from the field, which is spectacular. It also adds the component of putting the opposition in foul trouble, and that can significantly soften up the defense.

The flip-side is that it slows down the game and if you’re banking on a fast paced game where you force the other team into a tempo they’re not comfortable with, then the drive for a foul strategy can run counter to this.

by jae on Apr 11, 2009 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

it's the 'flip side' that keeps things interesting

…the yin and yang. It’s why I see M’gette more as either a neutral or mildly negative contributor—narrowly defined he’s a plus because he scores very efficiently and can get the opponents in foul problems. The cost though is stagnating an offense that can’t thrive in that mode, playing a wing who’s too slow to put juice into fast breaks, and depending too much on the refs’ predisposition with his inconsistent finishes to his drives—in close fourth quarters he doesn’t get as many calls. If moderate improvement comes from Morrow and Azubuike finds consistency, M’gette is hardly essential; I’d be thankful for his frequent injuries which exclude him from becoming an integral part of the team’s core, except it significantly depresses his trade value (that yin and yang again).

by the.monk on Apr 11, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wouldn't it be worse if he was good his rookie year

but has gotten worse? I said that his 20 ppg can be replaced. Hell if you want a scoring guard who is efficient you can pick your choice in the draft with every guard being able to score without jacking up shot after shot such as Teague, Jennings, Lawson and Flynn just to name a few. Some pretty efficient scorers are
Mike Miller, J-Rich, Joe Johnson, Shane Battier, Richard Jefferson, Gerald Wallace, Tony Parker, Caron Butler, Mike Dunleavy, Josh Howard, Barbosa, Jameer Nelson, & Ben Gordon just to name a few.

Monta has all-star written on him but please tell me that it would hurt to trade a outside jumpshooter that can slash for an inside presence like Bosh or Amare?

by The Dedication on Apr 11, 2009 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

improvement will have a price

after too many years to count, interior d and rebounding seem to be o.k. Perimeter d and ball movement on offense including consistent fast breaks are the obvious areas to remedy and i do not see the current players improving enough to really take the team up to another level—Morrow improving his d would be a great development but it’s only a wish now.

Whomever could be brought in for the remedies has to be paid, so the simple $$-based reality makes the three best trade candidates: M’gette, crawfor-, ellis. The next tier down, contract wise, could be packaged if the incoming player merits it: Wright, Belinelli, Azubuike. If a true star becomes available, possibly Jackson or Biedrins, but the talent coming in would need to bring in great d to make up for their absence.

by the.monk on Apr 10, 2009 2:51 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

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