disagree on Monta’s defensive potential.

one, watch his hips… they’re stiff. he could never be a CB. straight line speed he has, but he has trouble anytime someone changes directions (unless he guesses & guesses right).

two, he can’t defend pick & roll which is the bread & butter of NBA offenses. on size alone, he can’t fight through screens regularly and if he gets switched out he can’t guard even the most remedial of big men. usually, when he gets switched onto the big, he’ll go for the steal on the post feed b/c he can’t even put up enough of a fight to have a big come help.

three, small wingspan 6’ 2.75" and small standing reach 8’ 2". since it’s easier to shoot over the top of him, his close outs are going to be much less effective than the average defender.
long wingspan doesn’t equal great defender, but if you’ve ever played against one – guys with long wingspans are a lot peskier than guys with short ones.

four, he has no bulk. the refs can’t call them all. in the playoffs, guys are fouling on every play with their bodies…. see artest, ron. monta can’t body check guys to slow them down.

anyway, you follow the NBA long enough – you learn real quick that it’s a player’s league… (they make 3x what coaches make – so unless you’re on the Warriors, coaches are going to get fired over players even if they do things like choking the coach).

Terry Porter tried to preach defense, but since his team’s superstars said screw you, he got fired… Avery was fine till Kidd got their and wanted to focus more on offense & running than he did on defense. Larry Brown couldn’t get the Knicks to play defense.

history has shown that guys like Camby, Tayshaun, Artest, Bowen, Raja Bell and Shane Battier play good d no matter who the coach is. George Karl has always preached defense, but all of his teams that were known for defense included leaders such as Gary Payton & now Chauncey who demanded it from everyone else. just like how the 07 team had it’s leader, Baron, demanding it from everyone else. back then everyone credited Nellie for getting rid of Dun & Murph, for stopping/exposing Dirk, reviving Baron, giving Barnes, ME & AB a chance, etc etc etc (even though he didn’t deserve it). fast fwd 2 yrs and now he gets all the blame (even though he probably doesn’t deserve all of it either).

the Warriors have guys that are athletic enough that they should be able to play at least decent D

each man has his responsibilities within a defensive scheme and often, you’re only as strong as your weakest defender… that said the Warriors have one consistently above average individual & team defender in Turiaf – and even he often over rotates (to help), is a below avg defensive rebounder, reaches unnecessarily, & is foul prone (all problems he also had with the Lakers)… Jack is above avg as well when he isn’t distracted by things like the referees or the fact that his teammates aren’t playing any d.at best guys like Marco & Kelenna are avg NBA defenders (when guarding swing players).

no one on this team can guard the PG position. outside of Ronny, Maggette & Jack, they’re all below avg to unbelievably horrible at guarding the pick & roll. let’s face it, their 2nd best post defender is listed at 215 lbs (Jack)… and all young players (with whom the W’s have a ton of) are notoriously horrible at team defense, following game plans and position defense.
they have nobody who is known as a defensive stopper. someone like a Kirilenko, a Battier or a Rondo who can shut or slow down a player 1 on 1.

i have no problem holding Nellie accountable – but as much as i’d like to believe that a JVG or a Thibodeau could turn this team into an average defensive team… i think the reality is that that wouldn’t happen without an overhaul of the roster.

Defense is mostly about athleticism and effort

effort yes, athleticism no. It can play a role, but I think the biggest role it plays is allowing otherwise bad defenders be average to above average by allowing them to compensate for defensive mistakes (see Smith, Josh) I don’t think defense is a skill set not all that different from shooting. Yes, most players could become better shooters, ball handlers or defensive players if they wanted to. Some simply can’t become any better at those skills than they are, but I think it has little to do with athleticism. Many of the best defensive players in recent history, (ex: Rodman, Battier, Bowen and B. Wallace) are not particularly athletically gifted relative to the rest of the athletes in the NBA. Even those who are incredible athletes and great defenders (Jordan, Kobe, Garnett) share a similar dedication, and desire to win and improve as the guys from the first category. Often athletic ability provides a crutch that allows some players (Monta, Crawford, Maggette) to not have to work to become better defensive players. Those who aren’t great athletes wouldn’t be in the NBA if they didn’t study and practice their defensive skills. I don’t believe its a coincidence that Monta appeared to be a much better defender his first two years in the league when he was a 2nd round draft pick still unsure of his status on the team and we didn’t know yet that his efficient scoring and midrange game alone would allow him to stick around the NBA for many years. Similarly I don’t believe its a coincidence that our best perimeter defender is a guy who went undrafted and had to work his way into the league and then into a rotation. Defensive ability, like any other skill, varies depending on the player but it also depends largely on practice.

You need to get your sarcasm a GPS or something. Either that or I need to get us some homing pigeons.

Hence the topic “2nd best pg in the league.”

Leadership, Rebounding, Court Vision, Turnovers, Steals, Free Throws, 3Pt Shooting > Rondo

The 2003 draft is considered one of the strongest of all time, but I don’t know if you can say Darko, Kaman, Hinrich, Ford, Sweetney, and Hayes (all top 10 picks) are considerably better picks than Gordon, Livingston, Childress, or Swift.
Give me a 2004 draft class all-star team:

Harris/Nelson/West
Martin/Gordon/J.R. Smith
Iggy/Deng/Childress
Jefferson/J.Smith
Howard/Okafor/Biedrins

If a 2009 draft all-star team is even remotely close to as good as that squad (Biedrins is probably the 5th big on that team!!) I’ll be completely shocked. With that team’s draft’s depth they could probably give the “legendary” ‘03 group a good run for their money. 2004 simply wasn’t a weak draft. I think this year’s draft has more good players in it than most give it credit for, but even in a best case scenario for most of this year’s prospects its not as good as the ’04 group.