Ty Lawson Vs. Brandon Jennings
by nateoak10 on May 2, 2009 10:38 PM PDT
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PrintAs the draft gets closer and closer, we will most likely have the seventh pick in this years draft wich is one of the weakest in years. The only players that standout are Harden, Griffin, and Rubio. But the most talken about on this site is Brandon Jennings.
Jennings- He is extremely athletic and works well in running offenses. We saw in the all american game how well of a passer he is and his crazy dunks so there is no doubt this kid has alot of talent nut when you look how he has done in europe, it does not look good. He is playing against stronger guys the likes of which he will play in the NBA and cant seem to shake them none the less get a body on someone. Turnover prone and is a bad three point shooter. But the game is alot slower over in europe so maybe playing in the U.S. is just what he needs. He has not had a good turnover to assist ratio and is a really bad rebounder. I think at best he can be like Crwaford and at worst a Telfair.
The man who led his team to a national title and boosted his stock in the process but how much?
Lawson- The fastest man in college basketball is a true pint guard who ius also somewhat of a sharpshooter. Great playmaking ability and is very consistent. Decent defender and shows good effort on the boards, but his small size limits him on how effective he is down low. He is a system point guard as far as we know and he had the luxury of having Tyler Hansbrough for three years. Top five passer in college hands down and was a stealing machine. He does have short arms and needs to learn to play at differnt speeds at the next level.Recent point guards who have came out of UNC (Felton) have not been as good as people thought he was going to be so this could affect his stock somewhat. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31608
Note: The Warriors were one of a coople teams including Miami and Toronto who visited him over in europe to scout him. http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/articles/2009/04/26/point_guard_is_a_big_leaper/?page=full
Your thoughts?
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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Lawson or Jennings? Damn, after what the Raiders did, I feel like I am owed Ricky Rubio.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on May 2, 2009 10:44 PM PDT reply actions
Ty Lawson is my vote.
Only if I had a gun to my head to choose.
If I were the Warriors Owner, GM and president, then I would choose neither. Trade my pick and select Rocky Belinelli as our Starting PG.
He can do it!
Raw Key!
Raw-KEY!
RAW-KEY!
(the key to our success.)
Romes Mac Mojous
by ROMESdavidWOOD37 on May 2, 2009 11:03 PM PDT reply actions
Jennins is BPA
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or John Wall. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
You sure about that?
is he really THAT much better than the guys that have been talked about?
neither
griff, rubio, clark, hill, holiday
no one else
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
If I were to choose
I would shoot myself but to comment on your crawford/telfair comparison about jennings is that since monta looks like he’s gonna stick around, Lawson would be a better pick becuase we all know that if jennings turns out to be a crawford, they would’nt mesh together
If the range of possibilities for a player is between Crawford and Telfair, you do not draft that player. You punt. You trade the pick for a broken toaster and some paper towels to wipe up counters at the Oracle. When best case scenario is a guy who hasn’t sniffed the playoffs in a 10 year career, you don’t want that guy with a first round pick.
by jae on May 3, 2009 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Best case scenario Jamal Crawford? Absolutely not. Best case scenario is Tony Parker. Jennings has way more upside than being Jamal Crawford.
by Missing Barry on May 20, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
noone of them
i’d prefer imagine that Rudolph wasn’t drafted last year and W’s got this year’s top draft pick
dot
30 Y 197 cm 115 kg 0 IQ
i dont get it
u dont like AR?
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
i like AR
u just don’t get it :)
30 Y 197 cm 115 kg 0 IQ
by Lat We N Trash on May 3, 2009 4:32 AM PDT up reply actions
actually nope
what i tried to say was
’let’s imagine that AR wasn’t drafted last year -W’s somehow got him this year -considering we all know how much he can do he would be a top3 draft pick’
30 Y 197 cm 115 kg 0 IQ
by Lat We N Trash on May 4, 2009 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions
hahaha.
last time I ever try to be smart like that.
about 3 days
i m suffering from impression that indecorum would be to not add a ’’ :-) "
30 Y 197 cm 115 kg 0 IQ
by Lat We N Trash on May 8, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Neither
Jennings ranks high, but he is not a good shooter and he is questionable as a team leader. Lawson is an aggressive player, but the overall package is not worth a #7 pick. If Lawson, at 6-0, is in consideration, then I would actually go for Jonny Flynn out of Syracuse. Great ballhandler, killer shooter, and shows strong confidence at a young age. I’d say he’s made out the Morrow mold. I’m surprised no one’s talked about him. Yet.
The King of the East shall move his kingdom to the West. 2010.
Honestly, I have no real feel for whether Jennings can play. I suspect most posters here don’t either. And my objectivity regarding Lawson is shot. But if the argument against Lawson or Jennings is merely that they’re short and would present a problem with a (Lawson or Jennings)/Ellis backcourt, that should not be a reason not to draft either.
The team is presently flawed and not just at one position. It is unlikely that we’re a single rookie point guard away from being a serious contender. We are not good enough to have the luxury to try to fit a single player into a limited need-set since trying to fill a single need almost always lowers your chances of getting a guy who can actually play the damn game. All players will have faults and short-comings. Other teams will exploit some of them, but it’s not like another shorter guard means we lose 70 games a year automatically. Moving a guy who can play (whether that’s Monta or a short point guard we draft or some other piece) to make a better fit once the team has improved is easier than making a mistake and drafting a guy because he has height-weight numbers that look promising. Monta is a good player, probably part of ‘the solution’, but not enough that he should trump other personnel decisions. Team needs more talent. Period.
by jae on May 3, 2009 9:33 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
but what if they were monta's backup?
1:monta, rook
2:jak, ammo/marco?
3:buike, free agent/trade
4:randy,wright
5:beans,ronny
That lineup doesn’t look too different from the one this year that lost 50+ games. Sure, Monta healthy for the whole year will help, but there’s a chance that Jax will decline, since that tends to happen to guys as they age and/or get hurt since that seems to happen to guys as they age. (Maggs, see below will be hurt at some point.) Not that I thought that Jax was such a valuable irreplaceable part to begin with, but if the formula was to simply say that last year’s team just needed to be competitive, I think that the gamble, at best, still doesn’t make us a very good team. It banks on health, Monta being able to play point and Randolph being able to be a force for the season. That’s tough to get excited about. It’s got too much that not only could go wrong, but vital parts that seem as likely to go wrong as to go right.
I don’t see Maggs anywhere in that lineup. How exactly do you propose getting rid of him without it costing us something?
by jae on May 3, 2009 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
losing maggs is the trade part
an it depends on what we get through the trade an we never saw a full lineup last season. so you cant reall judge on what our lineup would have been like
I disagree. I do not think we need to toss up our hands and say “we don’t know what the team can do” simply because we didn’t see them all together. We have a pretty good idea of what the individual players can do, and though there’s some cases where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, in general what a player can do doesn’t get substantially better because of ‘chemistry’. And what we know is that the team was a bit above average offensively and didn’t defend at all. Everyone being healthy isn’t going to produce monumental changes since it’s not like we’re getting the mutant love-child of Bruce Bowen and Chris Paul back from injuries. We’ll have guys who, if healthy, won’t help on defense and will help some on offense.
Being able to give reasonably accurate predictions of what a team can do without having to ‘see it all come together’ to make a decision after you’ve seen that it doesn’t work is something that GMs should be able to do. Is this ‘judging’? Maybe not, but it’s a highly educated prediction. Everyone together healthy makes a somewhat better, healthy and still flawed team that maxes out at challenging for the 8th slot.
by jae on May 3, 2009 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
it’s not like we’re getting the mutant love-child of Bruce Bowen and Chris Paul
sign these guys up
Thing A
Those guys? They couldn’t beat a rabbit and a duck and a tiny bulbous headed canary!
by jae on May 3, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
hey lets be fair
that team they lost to also had an above average shooting guard. If you can give an MJ led team a run for their money they can’t be all that bad.
Thing A
by sam23 on May 3, 2009 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
and wasn’t there also a good girl-rabbit? Clearly its been too long since I watched Space Jam.
Thing A
You mean Mj, that hack baseball player?
I think the only way MJ’s team won was that the bulk of the team was assembled before he got there. If he had a hand in actually crafting the lineup, then a gigantic cartoon alien who stole the ‘talent’ of Sean Bradley would have walked all over them. Jordan the player might be up for the challenge, but Jordan the GM probably would have let Bugs go in favor of George Jetson’s boss because he heard that Spacely had ‘potential.’
by jae on May 4, 2009 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Chemistry doesn't add a jumpshot to a player
but it is important for allowing a player to play more comfortably in the system. We do have the tools to play not great, but consistent defense. Team chemistry and leadership can draw out that defensive effort and have an offense in sync. With our problems, we need a floor emperor to shake the team up and sort out the lineup. But those players are hard to acquire and harder to find in the draft. Baron’s departure left a power vacuum and a player of his caliber will be needed to bring back stability.
I’d draft Flynn and trade for Quinn for the ultimate Flynn-Quinn duo.
The King of the East shall move his kingdom to the West. 2010.
Rec'd
I don’t know why GSoM’ers are so high on height and bulk on a PG. Height and Bulk are secondary to what a PG needs to do or to have: Court Vision, Create shot opportunities (Himself or Teammates), the Passing ability itself, and Ball Handling. They also need to be able to run and have quick hands. A PG’s job is not to post someone up and there are few current PG’s who do actually post up the opposing 1 in game and one of those few was Baron.
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or John Wall. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
Woops that was a reply to Jae lol
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or John Wall. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
so high on height and bulk of a PG
because we need some defense on the floor, and we already have monta as a subpar defender / defensive liability. there are teams in NBA that are paying top money for “court-vision” PGs and cant get to playoffs. in my opinion we need a defensive presense at PG position, some one who does not back down when he gets posted up.
We need defense in the backcourt. We need a defensive presence at 5 positions when on average we’ve had it a between 0 and 2 most of the time. But going after a guy because of the tale of the tape measure is the chief recommendation, you wind up getting a tall guy who doesn’t have the rest of the skills necessary. How often in a game does a short backcourt really get posted up? It happens, but is it frequent enough that it’s not better to have two shorter guys who shoot better, pass better and get into passing lanes? It could be, but I doubt that going for a guy primarily because he’s big is going to solve more problems than it creates.
Last summer many were screaming that we had to get J. Crittenton because he was the “big point guard” who could play alongside Monta. Problem was that he he had little to recommend him as a point guard. He does some things well, but he’s rather inefficient from the floor and doesn’t seem to solve the problem of needing someone to initiate the offense. He wouldn’t have solved our problems. Unless there’s a point guard with more to recommend him than his height, if we really need a point guard, I’d take the shorter guy and deal with those cases where the guys get posted up (which won’t be every play) rather than get a guy who won’t be an asset because the only thing he really improves is stopping another team’s guards from posting up. Hell, being posted up didn’t seem like it was Monta’s problem that often. His problem is that he was never there to challenge a shot; he didn’t prevent someone from blowing by him and he can’t seem to fight through a screen.
We won’t get a perfect player. What players will provide us with fewer often exploited weaknesses and provide us with more strengths?
there were also a lot of people saying we should go out and get that Williams guy from NJ. What happened to him?
Thing A
The pick for Williams won’t be sent out until 2011 at the earliest.
by jae on May 4, 2009 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Draft Express:
Brandon Jennings-
Best Case: Tony Parker
Worst Case: Sebastian Telfair
Ty Lawson:
Best Case: T.J. Ford
Worst Case: Jamaal Tinsley
ya an they said monta was going to be like steve francis aswell so there
these sites are not psychic
The player comparisons don’t tell me much. They tell me that they are comparing Lawson to two guys who pass a bunch but have issues shooting the ball. Lawson shot the ball in college better than those guys he’s compared to. That alone makes me think that a whole lot of analysis didn’t go into it.
Best case: very good professional basketball player.
Worst case: terrible professional basketball player.
by jae on May 3, 2009 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Haha
Of course, the actual best and worse cases for a draftee can be even more extreme than that — viz. Len Bias’s DraftExpress page…
Best case: a 6-8 Jordan
Worst case: celebrates getting drafted by doing cocaine, dies of a massive heart attack
Thing 1
That’s the best and worst for the player. For the team it would depend on what the cap hit for the deceased player was.
by jae on May 3, 2009 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude...
That’s just wrong… I’m not normally one to denounce “crossing the line”, but…
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
AB1=TK
by Dubs fan in Boston on May 4, 2009 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Sorry if I sounded flip...
Being from Boston, I still consider Bias’ death by far the harshest sports toke I’ve ever taken. I just think people sometimes need to expand the conceivable range of possibilities when they talk of “worst case scenarios.”
Thing 1
If you're gonna reference extreme "worst case scenarios"...
Best case: 6’8" Jordan
Worst case: Moves to Darfur and starts shooting innocent villagers? Starts a cock fighting ring in his basement, except with humans?
There are far worse things one can do than ODing on coke… I’m just saying. I wasn’t personally offended by it… it was just a little shocking that you went there.
PS. How’s that for “crossing the line!”
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
AB1=TK
by Dubs fan in Boston on May 4, 2009 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
IMO
Bias case crossing the line just with ‘HAHA’ as title
from any other point of view it really looks like perfect example of ‘worst case’ (in NBA draft as context) -because it’s a precedent
30 Y 197 cm 115 kg 0 IQ
by Lat We N Trash on May 4, 2009 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
If the Warriors do draft Jennings
and does become like a Tony Parker, just imagine him and Monta in that backcourt, but i sure wouldn’t want him to be like a Sebastian Telfair (such a huge bust, unfortunately).
If you want a success story just take a look at mine.
Kid's still 24
He’s definitely not what he was hyped up to be, but he’s still on an NBA roster and getting >25 minutes/game. He’s definitely not a “huge bust,” and could still go the Chauncy Billups route.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
AB1=TK
by Dubs fan in Boston on May 4, 2009 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions
I really dont see a draft pick we need
I hope we get lucky in the drawing and can somehow package it with one or two players to get an impact player. There are alot of teams out there that need to get young fast and i hope the suns are one of them AMARE baby.
None of the above.
Tyreke Evans
or trade down for Jrue Holiday (who would be a Top 5 lock in 2010 if he chose to stay another year in college as UCLA’s starting PG)
"We Deserve"
The best way to create a great Product is to look beyond the immediate short term....
……..improvement and visualize the “end result”……..I find it interesting that it is apparent that we have the pieces in place for a great team in the future with the exception of the type of players represented by this years top 2 draft picks aka Griffin/Boozer inside monster and Rubio/star point guard……..if we can find a way to add that kind of talent to those positions/coach that is able to meld it together with defense/passing overall team play then……….how can we achieve this without trading away the core of the team………
by Only In Fairfax on May 4, 2009 10:14 AM PDT reply actions
My take...
I haven’t been commenting much on the Draft related topics because I really don’t have too much to say having not watched much of these guys. But I’m bored so here we go.
I doubt we end up with either of these guys. It’s still early but as of now it’s doubtful that Jennings drops to 7, and Lawson seems to be a “reach” there. I’m not really sure why though.
When I look at Jennings I get the same feeling I got when I looked at Randolph last year. I’m just not sure what all the hype is about (keep in mind I was wrong about Randolph). The guy seems to have all the tools but strikes me as someone who could care less about playing a clean, safe, efficient game. This could have a lot to do with the fact that all I’ve seen of him are youtube videos, a streetball documentary, and Italian league stats (that I have no idea how to project to the NBA). Maybe I’m totally wrong, but all of the stuff on his “weakness” lists on the draft sites scare the heck out of me. Crawford 2.0? No thanks.
Lawson on the other hand seems to be getting a bad rap because of his size. It will probably be a bit of an issue in the league but I don’t think it’s nearly the knock that some are making it out to be. It’s not like he’s a frail little guy. He’s pretty solid and he performed at a consistently high level in the NCAA this year. I don’t expect him to set the league on fire or anything but I think he’ll be pretty effective as a borderline starter/solid back-up (I think that’s a safe projection). We could use a guy like that.
Neither one of these guys will make a huge difference for us and chances are that neither is going to be the smart way to go when we pick. It’s likely that someone else snags Jennings for his “upside” before we pick and there will probably be a better overall player on the board ahead of Lawson (I hope).
If I have to pick though, I’ll take Lawson.
Thing 2
If i have to pick though, I'll take HOLIDAY!
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Jennings
Can barely play in Europe….. Lawson ran an offense that is 1/90th of Don Nelson’s offense.
None will contribute right away. I still say we have to go big.
Lawson
I admit I am partial to the bigger player if all other things are equal, but let me throw out one name: Aaron Brooks. Looks tiny out there but all I see is him driving to the hoop at will, making good passes and his team is winning, against some damn fine teams in the playoffs. Lawson is a stronger Aaron Brooks. Based on his year in Europe I don’t quite know why Jennings would look like the better player to some.
Actually I feel the Warriors should make every effort to move into the top 2 and grab either Griffin or Rubio. The number 7 pick and Wright should be an attractive package. I also really like an undersized PF named Patrick Patterson who should be available in the 20’s if the Warriors have a GM who is tempted to go all Kevin Pritchard (Portland’s GM) on us!
Jennings is BPA at 7
and no doubt his passing ability would make or break him on our team. I have a feeling the wolves’ will pick him up as they are in desperate need of a point. If we take Jennings at 7, then we trade Marco and Watson to the wolve’s for their 18 pick (Holiday). Then Monta can play shooting guard all he wants.
Jennings / Holiday
Ellis / Morrow
Jackson / Buike
Wright / Randolph
Biedrins / Turiaf
The King of the East shall move his kingdom to the West. 2010.
I have a feeling the wolves’ will pick him up as they are in desperate need of a point.
I just don’t see the Twolves picking Jennings, Some draft sites and other people are saying he is Telfair 2.0. Why would they take 2.0 when they already have 1.0.
Check out draftexpress.com on point guards
Don’t know if anyone is still reading this blog, but you really ought to read what the guys at draftexpress.com say. They just 5/9/09 posted an analysis of the point guards and Ty Lawson looks perfect for the Warriors. One thing about this site, it seems Kevin Pritchard GM of the Portland Trailblazers is in lockstep with these guys—and look what a great team he’s put together.
Speaking of which, if Lawson or Rubio are off the board by the time the Warriors pick, I’d be willing to get Sergio Rodriguez, a fast, flashy, high-assists, high-excitement true point buried on their bench who wants out.
Well…I’ll throw this out there, I have, in fact, seen Brandon Jennings play. I watched him play as a senior in high school against a team that had Ed Davis and a VCU commit – so against good high school competition. When you guys read the scouting reports, I think you don’t really get a good handle on how quick Jennings is. He really is like Rondo or Tony Parker in the fact that he can get wherever he wants on the court at any time. Sure he didn’t play much in EuroLeague – but he was on a good team with good guards already that has no incentive to develop him. He’s a hands-down better prospect than Lawson if only because of his athleticism.
In the game I watched he was dropping 3’s all over the place, though from what I’ve read his shot still needs work, so I’ll assume that was a good shooting game for him. He also had decent court vision and pretty good passing skills, though he was the only real offensive threat Oak Hill had and was taking all the shots. Probably needs a couple of years of development time before he can really run the point efffectively, but then again Tony Parker was the same way (and they still won a championship while he was still learning it).
Jennings is BPA at 7 if he’s still around, and we should take him. I’d probably take Rubio over him, but that’s probably unrealistic.
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