UPDATED: Making the Case... Jonny Flynn w/ 7th pick
by mcwalter44 on Jun 2, 2009 2:50 PM PDT
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PrintUPDATE - 06/02/09:
PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS 
Golden State
Position: PG
Height: 6-1
Weight: 196
Age: 20
School: SyracuseAnalysis: The Warriors don't have a traditional point guard and I think it will be hard for them to pass on Flynn if he's still on the board. I thought they'd be taking a serious look at Brandon Jennings here, and they probably will, but Flynn has the leadership and heart that the Warriors desperately need. Jennings is a project who is much farther away. - Chad Ford
Here's a quick look at the top PG measurables in this upcoming draft. For more info see my post REMIX: More NBA Combine Measurables.
| Name | Height w/o Shoes | Height w/shoes | Weight | Wingspan | Standing Reach | Body Fat | No Step Vert | Max Vert | Bench Press | Lane Agility | 3/4 Court Sprint | Class Rank | Projected |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Tyreke Evans | 6' 4" | 6' 5.25" | 221 | 6' 11.25" | 8' 8" | 7.1 | 28.5 | 34.0 | 7 | 11.81 | 3.17 | NA | 6 |
| Jrue Holiday | 6' 3.25" | 6' 4.25" | 199 | 6' 7" | 8' 4.5" | 6.3 | 28.5 | 34.0 | 6 | 10.64 | 3.21 | NA | 13 |
| Eric Maynor | 6' 2.25" | 6' 3.25" | 164 | 6' 2.5" | 8' 1" | 5.4 | 28.5 | 31.5 | 8 | 10.78 | 3.19 | NA | 19 |
| Stephen Curry | 6' 2" | 6' 3.25" | 181 | 6' 3.5" | 8' 1" | 5.7 | 29.5 | 35.5 | 10 | 11.07 | 3.28 | NA | 8 |
| Darren Collison | 6' 0.25" | 6' 1.5" | 166 | 6' 3" | 8' 0.5" | 5.7 | 30.5 | 33.5 | 9 | 10.45 | 3.10 | NA | 27 |
| Patrick Mills | 5' 11.25" | 6' 0.5" | 175 | 6' 2" | 7' 11" | 6.9 | 27.5 | 33.0 | 8 | 10.87 | 3.10 | NA | 30 |
| Ty Lawson | 5' 11.25" | 6' 0.5" | 197 | 6' 0.75" | 7' 10.5" | 6.6 | 29.0 | 36.5 | 14 | 10.98 | 3.12 | NA | 17 |
| Jonny Flynn | 5' 11.25" | 6' 0.75" | 196 | 6' 4" | 7' 11.5" | 6.3 | 33.0 | 40.0 | 10 | 10.86 | 3.23 | NA | 10 |
_____________________________
The Original Case:
One of the fastest rising players in the nba draft blogsphere has be none other than Syracuse's 6-0, 186 lbs guard Jonny Flynn (yes that's how he spells his name). As post on Sactown Royality, ESPN's Chad Ford see Flynn's stock rising fast.
Flynn has a natural charisma that you can't teach. Whether it was leading Syracuse into the tournament or rallying players inside Tim Grover's ATTACK Athletics gym, Flynn has the personality to play a leading role on a team...
When Flynn gets into 3-on-3 and 4-on-4 drills, he's the most vocal player on the floor, calling out plays and screens. No matter what's going on in the gym, your eyes eventually end up gravitating back to Flynn....
I watched him in the gym for two days and thought everything about his jump shot looked smoother, less forced. He's been working with a shot doctor and seems to have found his range. He was hitting everything from midrange jumpers off screens to dribble-drive pull-ups to college and even NBA 3-pointers. Like virtually every prospect I've seen, Flynn still isn't an ace from the NBA 3. But he looked OK shooting it from there...
Over the past few weeks, a number of GMs seem to have been warming to Flynn and he looks like a potential lottery pick at the moment. A number of teams in the lottery including the Kings (No. 4), the Wizards (No. 5), the Timberwolves (No. 6), the Warriors (No. 7), the Knicks (No. 8), the Bucks (No. 10), the Pacers (No. 13) and the Suns (No. 14) all need point guards. And after speaking with at least one source from every team, I learned Flynn is in the mix for all of them.
And Chad Ford isn't the only talking up Flynn's abilities. Jonathan Givony, Draftexpress.com, feature Flynn in his report on the A.T.T.A.C.K. Athletes Workout.
Flynn is one of the most explosive point guards in this draft, right in the same class as Brandon Jennings and Ty Lawson. His shiftiness in the open floor and pure speed getting up and down the court was very impressive, as were his ball-handling skills. While there wasn’t anything to take away from this setting in terms of evaluating his play making skills or court vision, it was great to see what a natural leader Flynn is around his cohorts. He looked incredibly focused and professional at all times, and really appears to have the ideal personality you look for at his position, as he’s extremely engaging and charismatic.
This brings us to the next question: DOES IT MAKE SENSE FOR THE WARRIORS TO CONSIDER DRAFTING FLYNN WITH THE 7TH PICK???
If indeed Flynn is as charismatic and vocal as Ford and Givrony has billed he'd have an intangable that was all but void on the Warriors last season. After being dumped by Baron Davis, the Warriors never found that leader at the PG spot. Sure Captain Jack was vocal and running the some of the sets, but we all know that isn't the role he was meant to fill here. I know that Mully would have loved for Ellis to assert himself become that leader, but with his mopped incident and subsequent 30 suspension that all but nuddered any vocal leadership we might see from him (grant that wasn't something he'd exhibited in previous season either).
The case for Flynn is simple. If we believe that Monta isn't the answer at PG, and if we believe that it's important to have a floor general at PG who's had significant college experience, than Flynn is answer. He's not a Curry or Evans in terms of shooting but as Draft Express reported in it's PG situational statistics article Flynn is an effective offensive player.
Flynn was a standout in two areas: his ability to get to the rim, and his one-on-one skills. Thankfully for him, those are two skills that the NBA
values dearly. Clearly, his productivity is grounded in his first step. Flynn got to the rim 8.8 times per game, which accounted for a lot of his scoring, but his 1.24 PPP in unguarded catch and shoot situations and .94 PPP on pull up jumpers are both very respectable. His 4.3 possessions per game on isolations are amongst the best amongst big-conference players, and his 41% shooting on those plays isn’t awful. Couple those tools with his capacity to drive in both directions and his ability to draw fouls (16.1% SF), and it becomes hard not to think that Flynn could be, at the very least, a high quality backup if he improves his efficiency, especially once he masters the pick and roll (.84 PPP).
Plus he can drop a highlight such as this:
Granted there is one major concern about drafting him, his height. As Ford said is article today
"But he's going to raise a lot of eyebrows when it comes to measurements. Syracuse has listed him, generously, at 6 feet for the past two seasons. Standing next to him, it's easy to see that Flynn will be lucky if he can crack 5-foot-11 in shoes. A measurement of 5-foot-10 is a better bet."
If you like Aaron Brooks or Nate Robinson game... well that's Jonny Flynn. A 6-0 or under freak athlete that jam like no other for his size. However, what sets him apart for Brooks and Robinson is that his other calling card is that he's a true point guard. Were as Brooks and Robinson are much more dangerous with their jumpers and like Monta are really just an undersized shooting guard.
I'm not sure if a Flynn/Ellis backcourt would work, but I do know that it would be athletic as hell. Still have doubts? Check these clips:
And you want to see how his A.T.T.A.C.K. workout when then check out these clips from Draft Express.
Finally, a Buffalo, NY TV station (WGRZ) ran this piece profiling Jonny Flynn as the anti-athlete. That's a grounded young man, who's approaching the upcoming draft like a professional rather than seeing it as a birth right.
Overall, I'd grade Flynn as mid-to-lower level lottery pick. His height is definately a concern. However, I'm of the belief that you draft the best available player and if the Warriors are looking for a more experience PG with a rock solid background, then they should look no further that Jonny Flynn.
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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Comments
If we did make our minds set on Jonny Flynn, he may be gone with the 11th pick or so, and therefore trading down may not work.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on May 28, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Taking Flynn at 7 would be so incredibly ridiculous it would make perfect sense for our organization
hey, it wouldn't be the only Oakland team with a bad #7 pick this year
Bay Area fan going to UCLA.
by Yoyo on May 27, 2009 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
holiday is better
size, defense, vision, finishing at the rim…jump shot will come later (draftexpress says he’s improved it alot lately)
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
agreed...
Just doing the write-up… personally I know see the Warriors drafting Flynn useless Harden, Holiday, Jennings and Rubio are all off the board. That said don’t be surprised if Flynn end up on Bucks.
A Sonics fan without a team.. Though I'm auditioning GS Warriors this season.
i thought we were doing these in a consolidated thread
at least like 5 prospects per…
Sam...
Check out the comment I left in the other thread. Personally I think they’d work better as individual posts.
Thing 2
yea, this type of thing is exactly what I envisioned initially. Nicely done mcwalter. But if everyone includes this many videos a post with 5 players would be waaaaaay too long. The only person who has submitted a “scouting report” to me is cap. Since we already have Flynn and a tag team effort on Jennings already done as individual posts I think we should just continue that way. At the end I (or anyone else) can just make a fanpost that contains links to each of the 15 individual posts and a final poll. Cap you should go ahead and post the one you sent me, if anyone else doesn’t get this I’ll just shoot them an e-mail telling them to post individually.
Thing A
Cool
I’ll try to get mine up early next week.
Thing 2
by olympicmike on May 30, 2009 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions
oh... missed that part..
A Sonics fan without a team.. Though I'm auditioning GS Warriors this season.
At 5'10"
I rather get the Tarheel in Lawson and that’s after Jennings and Evans are off the board
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or Tyreke Evans. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Conductor of the We're Back Warrior Movement!
there are so many posts now about who we should draft… has anybody heard anything from the actual organization on who they are truly looking at?!?!
It makes for some nice discussion.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on May 28, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
No, we don’t want to depress ourselves thinking about how the Warriors are going to mess this one up…
by Missing Barry on May 28, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
HAHAHA
that’s what i’m thinking!! everybody is trying to look at this draft in the best possible way, but we all know the dubs will do something to mess it all up, it’s inevitable, right?? although, the past couple drafts we haven’t done too bad, well maybe in the first round, after that, it’s all up in the air…
by Young Moolah on May 28, 2009 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I like Flynn...
But if you see him as part of the future how do you keep Monta? Those two are not a good fit for the same reasons Jennings and other smaller PGs aren’t a good fit with Monta.
In his case, as with Jennings or Lawson or just about any other point guard, you realize that the team isn’t close to the point where ‘fit’ is a major issue and (and here’s the big one) you realize that not every player on the roster including quite possibly Monta are going to be part of the long term success if there is to be long term success. You take the guy with most value in a general sense, figuring that if it comes to having talent that doesn’t fit together, it is possible to move good players for another good player with better fit, but if you never draft the talent in the first place, this isn’t an option. You take the chance that you may sacrifice quite a bit in the defensive back-court but if you can make up for it in other aspects of the game, you may do well enough to see what you have, to raise trade value and to address need at such a point where your only angle for improving the team isn’t another roll of the dice in the draft.
It’s a gamble, but when you gamble, it’s better to make bets with a better chance of paying off. If you decide that Monta must be part of the solution and thus only players who appear to “fit” with him are possible, you limit your choices and that usually narrows your odds.
If we were a better team, I would worry about a ‘fit’ with Monta more. If Monta was such an established star that the odds of getting another player more productive than him was so low that thinking about trading him would be absurb. But he isn’t. He is a good player, an efficient scorer who is young and was, prior to injury, still improving. He isn’t the elite class around whom a championship team can be built. If he is your cornerstone best player, you aren’t going that far.
by jae on May 28, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Werd.
A parable: when we drafted Randolph, a lot of people on this board were like, “why do we need another tall skinny lefty when we have AB and Wright?” A year later most people here consider him the cornerstone of the franchise, and all the other “key” guys with whom he didn’t “fit” basically expendable. The whole landscape of a team, particularly a crappy team like us, can change in the blink of an eye. The best “plan” when you’re a crappy team like us is to try to maximize your talent at every turn.
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on May 28, 2009 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Jordan Hill is projected by Ford to drop to 10th….. Should we pick him if he’s on the board? Generally considered BPA if he’s available at 7th. I tend to think so.
i wouldn’t mind taking him. the less smalls Nellie has to tinker with the better. even if he gets itchy, young, cheap big men are tradable commodities.
that said – out of all the draft “experts”, i trust Ford the least. though i suppose that is more as a talent evaluator – maybe he really does have “inside sources”. all i know is it seems that if Ford has a guy rated fairly highly and no one else does – chances are the guy is a bust.
by the evil monkey on Jun 3, 2009 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions
The rumor is
griz and kings will work a trade… kings want rubio. Griz would take hill @4 as he’s a better compliment to Gasol. I dont buy these “They want thabeet” things…gasol cant play 4. If they really think thabeet /gasol will work they r idiots
One would think that Rubio could compliment Gasol better than Hill since they speak the same language. Sure, you could teach Hill a phrase or two, but how many times does Gasol want to hear “bueno trabajo, muy bien, Marc”. One has to think that Rubio would make it sound a little more genuine.
by jae on Jun 4, 2009 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
they seem to think oj mayo is a pg
either way they want to pair him with a combo guard more than a natural pg who takes ball out of his hands
I think we take another shot...
Take Jennings if he’s there. He’s another high risk high reward type of guy. AT this point we shouldn’t worry too much about their size. Not many pgs are too big these days.
yeah the more i think about it
i think everyone is overplaying the fit with monta thing. im as guilty of this as anyone. like jae said, we could eventually use monta as trade bait. that said, i think if monta and whoever we put next to him commit on defense, they should be ok. sure, they might not be able to guard kobe but seriously who can? if they put on the effort, 2 smaller players in the backcourt could be sufficient defensively…
we definitely are not a good enough team to be worrying about this type of thing. if we were a playoff team and our small backcourt was being posted up constantly in the 2nd round, contributing to our loss, then we should consider it. for now, we should just acquire as much legitimate nba talent as possible.
by gogoldenbears on May 28, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Who cares if our backcourt is small. You take the best player available. Who cares if they are a little smaller than “prototypical” size. If the player we draft becomes a stud at PG we can trade Ellis for something of value.
Put it this way, Would you pass on Chris Paul because he is too small to play with Ellis in the backcourt?
These are the 4 guards we should choose from...
Brandon Jennings
Ty Lawson
Jrue Holiday
and this guy,Jonny Flynn
at least it’s realistic
We Believe
by RunNdGun on May 28, 2009 1:11 PM PDT reply actions
Nice work man
Yo mcwalter44- I’m loving these Player Prospect Previews. Very comprehensive and fun to check out. Thanks for putting them together.
by Atma Brother ONE on May 28, 2009 3:34 PM PDT reply actions
good job man...
I like the analysis, however Flynn is nowhere near Jennings or Holiday.
by Sharunas Marchulenis on May 28, 2009 3:57 PM PDT reply actions
I really like Flynn and Levance Fields, but I don’t want the Warriors drafting either because of their size. It’s not fair, because Fields is one of the more clutch college players I’ve seen, but he is so limited in what he can do because of his height. Same with Flynn.
Oh well.
Fields is garbage. He hit a couple of terrible (lucky) shots in March this year. He isn’t even a real prospect. Flynn at least has the quickness to make up for his size. If Flynn is 5’10, though, that is a legitimate concern.
by Missing Barry on May 28, 2009 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Flynn, Than the other guards
I’ve watched Flynn all year since I go to college in Milwaukee and Big East games come on with the quickness. Flynn is a great player who has a great set of tools. Even though, he is small, he plays like he is 6’4. He attacks the basket with will and he finishes easily because of his strong upper body. He has a huge chest and uses it to his advantage to finish against some ofthe biggest bodies in the country. He has excellent court vision and great handles to accommodate his scoring. He is becoming a better ball handler by not turning it over as much. near the end of the season He is a great on floor leader and doesn’t even get in trouble. He is very humble, mature, and showed his heart and dedication to his team by playing all those minutes against UCONN and playing through the pain against Oklahoma. People say Brandon Jennings is better and being a fan of Jennings, I would say Flynn is because he doesn’t complain, helps his team win, and strives for excellence. He is alot more grounded than Jennings and plays defense better. Lawson had a better team around him at UNC but he reminds me of Raymond Felton and that scares me off. I know Flynn going 7 might be a bit of a stretch but I would not mind it because he is a great player and makes players around him better at the same time.
Lawson reminds many people of Felton, largely because they are point guards from the same school. Looking past that seems to be a difficult one for many people. I suspect that had one gone to a different school, the worries wouldn’t be there. Lawson was slightly better at dishing out assists, much better at not turning the ball over, a better shooter, and better at getting to the line.
That
is def why i wrote that. They are mighty similar, have the same body types and went to the same school. Lawson grew more than Felton over the years while Felton didn’t though so hopefully is better.
by The Dedication on May 29, 2009 3:27 AM PDT up reply actions
When I see Jrue’s name written, I hear it as if Scooby Doo is trying to say it in my head. I think this is the best reason to draft him AND, paradoxically, the best reason to avoid drafting him.
by jae on Jun 4, 2009 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That’s freaking funny.
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jun 7, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
HOLLIDAY STOLE ONE OF RUSSEL'S "L"S!!!
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Jun 4, 2009 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
i like what i hear about flynn
two important factors to consider: age and nba body.
AGE: the Dubs are young and desperately need veterans IMO, therefore if they don’t trade #7 pick it would hopefully be a player with some experience and be at least 20 years old…i just don’t think a 19 year old project will help this team, even if it’s an upside guy like Jennings. flynn is 20, and with that comes two years of college experience and leadership abilities. it was AMAZING that the syracuse team played so well after the UConn multiple OT game, held it together for the Big East tourney and NCAA tourney, after such an intense game. as the leader, flynn probably had a lot to do with holding that team together…i give much credit to that.
NBA BODY: i think his 40" vertical leap makes up for his shorter height, and his 180 lb frame might prevent bigger PGs from posting him up. i don’t think he’ll be a defensive liability.
leadership quality and maturity sets him above the rest of the PGs in this draft. i like Flynn if the Dubs go with a PG, he just fits better since the team is so young.
by Brickowski BOOM on Jun 9, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Ty Lawson
I think we going to draft him based on stats. Assuming we going with distributing PG, low TOs, not selfish and with a solid jumpshot:
All in all his and Flynn stats are very close, but Ty played less minutes, while averaging better stats all around. I agree that having a good team around him probably made his stats a bit better. Flynn 175lb to Lawson 195 also makes a difference. And I don’t see Felton comparison at all, because Felton is more of a combo guard, while Ty is def a pure point.
BTW, Thanx for nice writeup walter.
the best case u can make for flynn
is lack of support cast compared to the best team in college basketball (UNC). Lawson didnt have to do it on his own, flynn did. That pressure generally leads to more turnovers, more shots thus lower percentage.
not saying i think flynn is better, but its not always easy to compare straight on stats
The evidence that more shots leads to a lower FG% is rather limited. It is not a general rule. It is not always the case. In any event, Flynn and Lawson took a remarkably similar number of shots per minute on the court so it’s tough to say that he was taking more shots, thus the lower FG%.
Lawson had a better supporting cast, but Flynn was far from a one man team. I might buy that his statistical output would be heavily influenced were Syracuse a bottom dweller or a team coached by a moron. They were not. They were a higher seeded NCAA tourney team that shot a much more than respectable 49% (better than UNC’s FG% fwiw) from the field for the season and had 4 other double digit scorers. Flynn did NOT have have to do it all on his own.
I say we just Tank it all season
And get ready for John Wall
I am Greg Oden, i am goingz to be trade to The Warrior. hoooray.
Warriors for life. Raiders till death. And The A's when i get free tickets.
by STIX on May 29, 2009 12:30 PM PDT reply actions
YA JOHN WALL!
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
on the flip, it actually did work for the Clippers.
probably close to impossible at this point, but it’d be nice if we could find a way to trade for some lottery bound team’s unprotected 1st… if i’m not mistaken, lucky Utah has the Knicks 1st rounder unprotected next year.
by the evil monkey on Jun 4, 2009 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions
The combine needs a stripper test
Build a fake club, hire some hotties and fake thugs, and see how these guys deal with being in tough social situations.
I couldnt care less about all the stuff mentoined by Chad Ford, etc because all these guys are pretty talented. Let’s see if they are emotionally mature and stay calm under pressure.
I want to see the Warriors get a leader who actually leads, not just runs his mouth.
by warriorsvictim on May 29, 2009 12:30 PM PDT reply actions
A guy who actually leads.....
Like…. “Stack, Monta you two break left grab the blondes at the bar. Andres you get the foreign one with the hot face and man voice and meet me in the Champagne room where me an Nellie will be waiting rrrreaaaady BREAK!”
I am Greg Oden, i am goingz to be trade to The Warrior. hoooray.
Warriors for life. Raiders till death. And The A's when i get free tickets.
by STIX on May 29, 2009 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Building a team
The Dubs are a team in constant flux and turmoil. This is because (dating all the way back until the early 90’s) Chris Cohan has provided a tumultuous and unstable environment. The team has had no solid direction, save for a few months of WE BELIEVE.
For the Warriors to actually build, to actually improve and to make strides towards being a consistent, steady, impactful playoff contender, they must pick a direction and go towards it.
This is something they did not do even after WE BELIEVE – by trading JRich. This is something they did not do by letting Baron, Barnes and Pietrus walk.
There are some pieces on this team and its time for consistency from the top on down. Cohan, Rowell and Nellie got their way by positioning a mouthpiece like Riley as GM. The reason they got rid of Mully was because they wanted a “yes-man” and now they have it . As fans, we lost an icon, one of the greatest Warriors of all time and a GM who might have made the best trade in team history since The Stilt. Its time for some consistency, lets pick a direction and move with it.
If Nellie is our guy for the next few years, lets draft accordingly. If he is not, lets draft accordingly.
Monta will never be a PG on a conference finals team, though he may very well be a 2 on one. We have a lot of hot-blooded personalities on the squad – we need a leader, a self-less ballhandler, someone who will take a big shot and calm things down when Stackjack loses his s$%& and Randolph looks like he will weep.
We need a top tier PG – a professional. Rubio would be too talented to pass up, unfortunately we will never be able to make that decision. Jennings, even with worlds of potential, is too unknown a quantity.
Holliday would fit with Monta because he could guard a 2 and is an athletic monster.
Flynn is a proven leader, clutch performer who has always gained the respect of his peers.
Lawson is a proven winner who, for the last few years, has juggled a team full of MickeyD’s All Americans egos and shot volume.
I would fine with all 3. But we need to pick a direction and move towards it – full bore.
+1
Great Call and reflection. It is so true and honest
by The Dedication on May 29, 2009 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions
actually they did pick a direction by trading JRich & letting BD, Barnes & Pietrus walk. that direction being youth movement w/ Monta & Andris as pieces to build with (whether that was a good idea or not is another story). the problem is they panicked and veered away from that direction with huge contract offers to Brand & Arenas, the Jackson extension and the trading of Harrington for a longer contracted vet in Crawford. to a lesser extent the Maggette deal (bad, but wasn’t horrendous until the later Jack & Crawford moves).
Monta will never be a PG on a conference finals team
um…..if Monta was the PG on the current Cavs, Fakers or the Magic, i’m pretty sure they’d still make it to the conference finals. and that would make him "a PG on a conference finals team… " the issue isn’t Monta at point. the issue is that the Warriors have no superstar to run their offense through or be the backbone of their defense.
btw, (according to draft evaluators) Holiday isn’t “an athletic monster”…..
for example, from draftexpress:
- Average athleticism
- Average explosiveness
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jrue-Holiday-1108/
if you check out other draft sites they all say the same thing in this regard.
by the evil monkey on May 29, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
If Monta Was With The Cavs Fakers or Magic
Most people still wouldn’t know his name because he was on the bench. The Lakers are neck deep with PGs and love em all, the Cavs have enough 6’2 guards (Mo,Delonte,Boobie but he would be ahead of Boobie) and the Magic have they’re all-star PG. Monta wouldn’t start ahead of any of em.
by The Dedication on Jun 1, 2009 1:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Monta Ellis wouldn’t start ahead of Derek Fisher, Jordan Farmar or Rafer Alston?! If Monta had been a member of the Cavs or Magic at this time last year Mo Williams and Rafer Alston wouldn’t be on those teams.
Thing A
Monta
wouldn’t start of ahead of Fisher honestly because Fisher has that respect and knows his role in Jackson’s system. This time last year, Monta probably might have started ahead of Delonte but not ahead of Nelson. I know this was Nelson’s breakout year but the Magic were committed to him starting
by The Dedication on Jun 1, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
wouldn’t start of ahead of Fisher honestly because Fisher has that respect and knows his role in Jackson’s system.
Fisher is no longer very good. Monta Ellis would be a massive upgrade over either he or Farmar. If the Lakers added Monta Ellis I don’t think Farmar would get off the bench in the playoffs and I can’t imagine Fisher picking up more than 10-15 minutes.
This time last year, Monta probably might have started ahead of Delonte but not ahead of Nelson. I know this was Nelson’s breakout year but the Magic were committed to him starting
This time last year Monta absolutely would’ve started over Nelson/ The Magic were committed to starting him because he was their best option. Monta was a much better player. Actually I think the Magic may have started both of them, but either way Monta Ellis would not have been on their bench.
Thing A
Fisher & Jameer do two things better than Monta
Play defense and 3pt shooting. Fisher can control the floor also if Kobe says it’s ok for him to do so and he sets people up better than Monta does as well. Fish also is a vet who knows how to play in the playoffs. Jameer can help spread the floor better than Monta because he can actually shoot the 3 at a high percentage. And while Monta is watching his defender go by him (though he’s blazing fast) Nelson & Fisher guard their defenders, something that is somewhat important in the playoffs.
by The Dedication on Jun 1, 2009 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions
fisher can’t guard anyone or hit any shot that isn’t a layup unless he’s wide open. to say that derek fisher would get minutes over monta ellis on the lakers is crazy. as far as i can tell, he’s been dead for a couple years.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I'm Sayin
Monta isn’t necessary on a team with 3 other PGs. He’s good but damn, hope yall don’t think that he’s a top1 5-20 guard in the league (PG & SG Combined)
by The Dedication on Jun 2, 2009 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions
top 5 guard? no. top 20 guard? maybe. i’d have to take a look at the rest of the league, but i would say that it is not at all crazy to call monta a top 20 nba guard.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Humm.... let's see
Is Monta a top 20 guard? In 07-08 yes, in 08-09 no, in 09-10 maybe.
Is Fisher a top 20 guard? Probably not ever, definitely not now.
Is Farmar a top 20 guard? Not yet, and likely not ever.
Is Rafer a top 20 guard? He’s the #1 AND-1 tour player in the NBA, but not a top 20 guard. Maybe top 30.
You put Monta out there with Dwight, Hedo, and Rashard and that’s an unstoppable offensive team. They’d run the other team ragged between having to guard the pick & roll, peel off to double Monta, and close out on Rashard. Not to mention D-Ho beating them up inside.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
R Dizzle = Wannabe AB1
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 3, 2009 6:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Rafer a top 30 guard? I actually like “Skip” a lot (anyone who punks Sasha Vujacic and pulls some AND1 stuff on him scores big points with me) but I don’t think that would be an easy case to make. He shoots fairly low %s across the board and isn’t a great defensive player. I think he was a very nice addition for Orlando, but I don’t know if I’d say he’s a top 50 guard right now, much less top 30.
Thing A
Thus the "Maybe top 30"
I think he’s firmly in the 30-50 range. He’s better than anybody on a few teams, and a few teams have two guy better than him. Besides, does LeBron count as a guard? Does Corey Maggette count as a guard? I’d really consider Rafer against all the other point guards, rather than the Mike Redd shooting guards and the Maggette Guard/Forward types.
Also, my point was that the best of the three options wouldn’t hold a candle to Monta. At best Alston is a top 30 guy, but as I said and you echoed, even that’s debatable.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
R Dizzle = Wannabe AB1
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 3, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Bad Use of Words
My original point was to say that Monta wouldn’t have made that much of a difference on those teams because he wouldn’t be the difference & he doesn’t fit any of the systems well. He can’t strectch the floor on Orlando & Cleveland & he doesn’t defend which Phil would hate. Offensively, he’d prolly start on LA b/c he’s is a better offensive player than the rest & he’s better than Alston so he’d start ahead of him but because of the systems and what the coaches desire, he wouldn’t get the burn
by The Dedication on Jun 3, 2009 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions
wouldn’t have made much of a difference? if you switch rafer alston for monta ellis right now, the magic are heavy favorites to win the title. if you switch derek fisher for monta ellis, they would already be planning the parade in LA. that’s a pretty substantial difference if you ask me.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
No
Monta doesn’t make them the heavy favorite. And everybody already is planning the parade because nobody is giving them a chance to win. The game is going to go down to the battle of the 6’10’s + and the X-Factors Ariza & Pietrus. Not the guard play.
by The Dedication on Jun 3, 2009 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions
i think you are ovevaluing fit vs actual production. monta ellis is such a huge improvement over derek fisher that it would have an absolutely massive impact on the series.
and DFiB gave an excellent description of how much better it would make the magic just a few posts above this.
adding a very good player to replace a mediocre player (in the case of alston) or a very bad player (in the case of fisher) swings this series dramatically.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
some truth in both p.o.v.'s on ellis
cap’n/the Ded—offensively of course he would boost point production, but by changing the distribution of the ball and shots in the offenses some of it would be off set by other players being less productive (he likes making them watch him rather than involve them). then there’s the defensive hole he’d put in the team d. his net positive impact could easily be less than what we’d suppose, if we base it just on his scoring stats.
I don’t know that Monta is any worse of a defensive player than Alston. He’s certainly not any worse defensively than Fisher. It seems to me that Turkoglu sets the Orlando offense up at least as much as Alston, and Mont could play a lot of minutes off the ball. On Either team he’d provide a tremendous mismatch that would be very difficult to account for.
Thing A
also
having Dwight Howard behind you can make a lot of guys a whole lot better defensively. Outside of Pietrus and perhaps Lee I don’t know if there is a single guy on that team who you could say is a good one-on-one defensive player, yet they are a still a solid defensive team because Howard protects the rim so well and rarely allows the opposition extra possessions. I think Monta’s quickness could allow him to be a pretty good defensive player in that situation.
Thing A
hedo is underrated
and better than every warrior minus Jack at defending
Monta is not any worse
than Alston. Depending on the situation, Turk may set it up, and some times it will be Raf… Clutch time, Turk, other than that, Raf. Raf sets up others better and shoots better. Fisher is a decent defender. The mismatch works both ways because he is an offensive minded guard but he is a mediocre distributor and liability on defense.
by The Dedication on Jun 3, 2009 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I am not arguing
that Monta isn’t better than all three of the players, but with Orlando, the guard must be able to stretch out the floor & shoot the three, and in LA, Defense is necessary.
by The Dedication on Jun 3, 2009 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Derek Fisher is a worse defensive player than Monta so how is defense necessary? Orlando LIKES to surround Dwight with 4 reliable outside shooters, but they’ve also never had a guard with the talents of Monta. I have a hard time believing they’d take him off the floor just for the sake of getting another shooter on the floor. I’m a huge believer in spreading the floor, but 3 shooters is plenty even in Orlando’s system.
Thing A
I don't think
Fisher is worse than Monta at defense, but I think that he has had a hard time during these playoffs because he has had some stiff competition. Never had a guard with the talents of Monta? Um, Jameer Nelson? Nelson is better than Monta. He shoots the three at a higher percentage, passes the ball more and shoots better from the line, all in less minutes than Monta. Monta scores a tad more than Jameer and is faster, but overall, Nelson is better than Monta
by The Dedication on Jun 4, 2009 12:42 AM PDT up reply actions
That's a legitimate argument
But I think Monta is still better. Jameer had an insane year this year. Monta had an insane year last year. On paper they seem to be pretty similarly effective, but I’d give the edge to Monta because he’s 4 years younger, and scores by going to the basket (something the rest of the magic are terrible at).
Just because D-Ho is surrounded by 3 point shooters doesn’t mean that it’s the ideal solution. It works, but adding Monta would work better.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
R Dizzle = Wannabe AB1
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 4, 2009 6:19 AM PDT up reply actions
See
Jameer is a very good slasher but what makes him better than Monta is because he has an outside shot and he has excellent court vision. If Monta was on the team, he wouldn’t help spread the floor, which would hurt D-Howard since he doesn’t get the space needed to do the damage inside. But I’m sure Monta will be better because he is younger than Jameer so he has more time to develop
by The Dedication on Jun 4, 2009 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t know if Nelson is inherently a better basketball player, if such a thing can actually be determined, but prior to injury, he was having a better season than Monta’s ever had.
Monta would help the Magic as he’s a good player. If he was on the Magic, they wouldn’t run the same identical sets that they do now.
by jae on Jun 4, 2009 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions
And it is the sets that they
run that got them to the finals
by The Dedication on Jun 4, 2009 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions
they could run different sets with an improved roster, still make the finals and be a better team. once again, better players are almost never bad.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
But Monta
isn’t better than Nelson. But he will be since he is younger.
by The Dedication on Jun 4, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions
the discussion was originally monta vs. alston or fisher. that’s what i was referring to.
i won’t argue that monta would improve the magic considerably over nelson if they were both healthy. they are similarly talented with valid arguments to be made on behalf of both of them in that debate.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
monta wouldnt have started
because he likes mopeds
er. just to clear things up b/c it kind of went off on a tangent…
you said
Monta will never be a PG on a conference finals team1st, there are 4 conference finals teams – Fakers, Nuggets, Cavs, Magic.
since we had the moped chronicles last season, lets go back to 07-08… if you were to somehow pull a Chris Wallace (Grizzlies GM) and trade Monta to the Fakers for Fisher & Farmar, you don’t think that 07-08 Fakers team doesn’t still make it to the conference finals? i’d say it’s very likely that they would.
and wouldn’t that make Monta the PG of a conference finals team?
once again, the issue isn’t so much Monta at point. the issue is that the Warriors have no superstar to run their offense through or be the backbone of their defense.
by the evil monkey on Jun 4, 2009 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Great article about Chris Cohan
Great article from 2002 by Mark Fainaru-Wada (what else did he write again?) about how much of clown Chris Cohan, illustrious Warriors owner is.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2002/02/10/SP74259.DTL
If you put together Dubs and Monkeys comments we the answer.........
…….we only need the true floor leader PG…… PLUS the 6-10(or Lebron) superstar…..we have the supporting cast in place…….just day dreaming…..
by Only In Fairfax on May 30, 2009 1:52 PM PDT reply actions
We are saying the same thing
You’re absolutely right, they did pick a direction, then veered off course = not picking a direction at all (Maggs, Craw, Stackjack et al). All I was trying to say, is, on this current Warriors squad, I do not believe Monta can play PG and take us to the promise land. When he was at his best, Baron could handle most of the ballhandling duties and Monta could take off as the one man fast break. He never had to come back for the ball and never had to be concerned with running the squad. In Nellie’s system, I’m not sure he can be the right PG. I apologize for considering Holliday a good athlete, going forward I will regard him as average.
I do think a year will positively effect: Randolph, Wright, Bellinelli, Morrow and Buike. Do I think we’ll be challenging for a WCF spot? NO. But If we really are choosing to go young, we should stay the course. If we want to be win right now, before Nellie retires to a life full of poker with Willie Nelson, a bold move is in order.
Tyreke Evans
This is the point guard the Warriors should draft if they don’t trade the pic..He is 6’6" with a huge wing span, a great defensive guard, and a mammoth upside..He will grow with the other young players..This guy is a stud..
He has way more upside than the other guys..
6’5 with an 8’8 standing reach (one inch shorter than Blake Griffin) – so close enough…
There seem to be concerns about Evans ability to distribute the ball and score efficiently. In other words, he could be the next Jamal Crawford…
by Missing Barry on Jun 2, 2009 7:53 AM PDT up reply actions
he gets to the basket like derek rose though...
not jamal crawford. Jamal settles for jumpers cause he cant get to the rim as well
True, but
Whether we’re talking about Tyreke, Jrue, or Marco, for some here the primary qualification to be the Warriors’ starting PG seems to be that they not have extensive experience being a starting PG.
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Jun 4, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
As long as they have the size to play next to Monta, right?
by Missing Barry on Jun 4, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Fitz?
Bob Fizgerald? Is that you posting under the name McWalter44?!
LOL...
I wish I had sports radio show… Naw, Flynn my assignment. I doubt the Warriors would draft him.
A Sonics fan without a team.. Though I'm auditioning GS Warriors this season.
i think warriors like him
If i had to guess… warriors board probably goes
1. griffin
2. rubio
3. harden
4. jordan hill
5. tyreke evans
6. johnny flynn
7. terrance williams
8. jrue holiday
thats my honest guess
i've gone from evans --> holiday --> flynn
flynn is my new personal favorite. sure he is small and sure we will be dominated by kobe trying to post up our guards. however, flynn is just a “basketball player” as people like to say. based on what i’ve seen out of every top prospect, he has the ‘it’ factor that almost everyone else seems to be lacking. flynn has that desire to take over a game that you see in the games superstars.
i’m not saying flynn will become a superstar in this league, but i think he has the best chance to succeed out of all the prospects that will be available to us. he produced at a high level in college in the best conference in the country. he has better than expected athleticism and physical tools. if the nba and the draft has taught us anything over the years it is to never underestimate a “short/small” player—especially a guard—if he has legitimate skills. john stockton, tim hardaway, isiah thomas, chris paul… the list goes on and on
if holiday = westbrook and lawson = felton, then flynn = tim hardaway. orange jerseys and #10. seriously though, i do see some of this comparison. both explosive players with a quick crossover. i also do see dj augustin comparisons (both orange again) but flynn seems tougher and more explosive to me for some reason.
the biggest x-factor in the nba is effort and desire. i think this kid has it, which makes me think its more likely he’ll reach his potential than many of the other players in this draft…
however
augustin could only do 2 bench press reps vs. 10 from flynn. i think that is worth something. plus the ability to get to the line in the NBA is very valuable and flynn has that…
by gogoldenbears on Jun 5, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
“the biggest x-factor in the nba is effort and desire. i think this kid has it, which makes me think its more likely he’ll reach his potential than many of the other players in this draft…”
I have no comment on Flynn’s work ethic – but this is a good point – most of the prospects around #7 seem to have a lot of upside with a long way to go to achieve it, and how hard they work, more than any other factor, is going to seperate the booms from the busts.
by Missing Barry on Jun 5, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Augustin vs Flynn Combine numbers
-Jonny Flynn had the best vertical leap of the day at 40" even, but posted only decent times in the lane agility drill (10.86) and the 3/4 court sprint (3.23) for a player his size. For comparison’s sake, Nate Robinson ran a 10.75 and a 2.96 in those drills. – Draft Express
Name: DJ Augustin – 2008 vs Jonny Flynn – 2009
Height w/o Shoes: 5’ 10" vs 5’ 11.25"
Height w/shoes: 5’ 11.5" vs 6’ 0.75"
Weight: 172 vs 196
Wingspan: 6’ 3.5" vs 6’ 4"
Reach: 7’ 10.5" vs 7’ 11.5"
Body Fat: 8.1 vs 6.3
No Step Vert: 28.5 vs 33
No Step Vert Reach: 10’ 3" vs 10’ 8.5"
Max Vert: 35 vs 40
Max Vert Reach: 10’ 9.5" vs 11’ 3.5"
Bench: 2 vs 10
Agility: 11.27 vs 10.86
Sprint: 3.07 vs 3.23
A Sonics fan without a team.. Though I'm auditioning GS Warriors this season.
thanks for compiling it
so they’re similar size, but flynn is probably a bit more athletic. i see augustin as more of a shooter and flynn as more of a ‘get to the rim’ kind of guy
by gogoldenbears on Jun 5, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
See here:
Height w/o Shoes: 5’ 10" vs 5’ 11.25"
Weight: 172 vs 196
Body Fat: 8.1 vs 6.3
Flynn is taller, 24 pounds heavier, and has 30% less fat… Flynn is a physical beast, while Augustin is built like me (except he’s just slightly taller and leaner).
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
R Dizzle = Wannabe AB1
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 5, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Name:Ty Lawson – 2009 vs Jonny Flynn – 2009
Height w/o Shoes: 5’ 11.25" vs 5’ 11.25"
Height w/shoes: 6’ 0.5" vs 6’ 0.75"
Weight: 197 vs 196
Wingspan: 6’ 0.75" vs 6’ 4"
Reach: 7’ 10.5" vs 7’ 11.5"
Body Fat: 6.6 vs 6.3
No Step Vert: 29 vs 33
No Step Vert Reach: 10’ 3.5" vs 10’ 8.5"
Max Vert: 35 vs 40
Max Vert Reach: 10’ 11" vs 11’ 3.5"
Bench: 14 vs 10
Agility: 10.98 vs 10.86
Sprint: 3.23 vs 3.23
Flynn can reach about 4 inches higher on his jump (which probably explains his somewhat better rebounding numbers). Otherwise, their numbers are ridiculously similar. Lawson was stronger. Lawson measuring quicker in the straight sprint, Flynn in the ‘agility drill’. I put very little stock in either as a reliable tool based on Monta’s numbers.
I’m just having a hard time with the notion that Flynn is somehow “more athletic” unless you’re defining that almost entirely by leaping ability. And if so, it’s not like Lawson is the second coming of Felton Spencer in terms of athletic ability. There numbers on the court, what they’ve actually done in games give a big edge to Lawson. I really suspect people still can’t get over the Felton = Lawson.
Someone enlighten me.
by jae on Jun 5, 2009 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
agility and jumping ability
are probably the most important stats for someone comming into the nba…thus flynn is more ‘athletic’
strength can be increased easily…and a sprint really doesnt help much since there are defenders in the way, thus agility being used along with the speed
but ya…i think its more of a perception thing…either way, personally, i dont see either as ever becoming an impact player and would rather pick between: holiday, jennings, evans, rubio….if we want a PG
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
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Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
For what it’s worth, Jordan Farmar outperformed Flynn in the vertical leap.
by jae on Jun 5, 2009 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
i don’t see the comparisons either, the same way i don’t see westbrook and holliday. i think they’re just lazy comparisons. i always thought felton was bigger for some reason. anyway, i like lawson way more than felton. i’m not even sure i have a reason why. i think lawson is a better basketball player.
i am a big lawson fan, but i am a flynn guy right now. its not because of the measurables, but rather the opposite. i feel flynn just has “it” more than any other player in this draft. he has that desire and tenacity that you can see when you watch him. there are a couple games i saw with him where he almost willed his team to victory—like say that epic 6OT game against uconn. i think he played like 65-70 minutes in that game and hit every free throw. thats all i need to know about a player. physical measurables are great, but a game like that really “measures the heart” and flynn has it. thats what makes me think flynn is going to be a player
by gogoldenbears on Jun 5, 2009 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d be more inclined to agree if Flynn shot the ball better and didn’t turn it over as much.
by jae on Jun 5, 2009 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
i think he played like 65-70 minutes in that game and hit every free throw. thats all i need to know about a player.
What about “He had been injured for two weeks prior to the NCAA tournament, then showed up in the 2nd round and threw up 20/4/7 and 3 steals a game on a bum ankle including a 21/4/6 game in the final with 8 steals while getting to the line 18 times”
I’d rather have that guy.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
R Dizzle = Wannabe AB1
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 5, 2009 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
lawson got to the line 18 times in that game?
wow impressive i had no idea. i’ll take lawson too no problem. i just don’t want to keep flip flopping favorites. ive gone through 3 favorites in the past couple weeks… i’m gonna stick with flynn as my guy for now, but i’m fine with a number of them…
by gogoldenbears on Jun 5, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Ummm...
I don’t know how DJ Augustin got brought up, but that’s who I was referring to. How anybody would choose between Lawson and Flynn based on those numbers is beyond me… I’d go for the guy who carried his team to a championship ring.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
R Dizzle = Wannabe AB1
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 5, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
i compared the two awhile back
cause they seemed to be of similar size and had similar stats in college. i was thinking out loud about whether they were legitimate comparisons and mcwater provided the numbers. again im cool with flynn or lawson. in regards to the championship, lawson definitely had more talent around him—but i don’t discount him (like many other do) because of that. he put up great numbers in his own right.
i dont want to get into a flynn vs. lawson argument with you haha. we have enough going on in the kobe thread.
by gogoldenbears on Jun 5, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah my bad
i skimmed through that. the bulk is the biggest difference. i don’t think 1.25" is that much in height esp when you’re already that small. also i thought it said flynn had 8.3% body fat. still 6.3 and 8.1 aren’t HUGE differences. esp when the percentages are so low and due to the difference in weight, the “amount” of fat is the same. flynn just has more muscle i guess.
basically flynn is stronger and more athlteic. the bench press is the most telling stat of all of them
by gogoldenbears on Jun 5, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions
his measureables are almost identical to CP3 actually.....
Name: Chris Paul – 2005 vs Jonny Flynn – 2009
Height w/o Shoes: 5’ 11.75" vs 5’ 11.25"
Height w/shoes: 6’1" vs 6’ 0.75"
Weight: 178 vs 196
Wingspan: 6’ 4.25" vs 6’ 4"
Reach: 7’ 9" vs 7’ 11.5"
Body Fat: N/A vs 6.3
No Step Vert: 32 vs 33
Max Vert: 38 vs 40
Bench: 10 vs 10
Agility: 11.09 vs 10.86
Sprint: 3.22 vs 3.23
also comparing there PER40 there sophmore year....
soph: CP3 (2005) v Johnny flynn (2009)
PPG: 18.3 v. 18.7
FG%: 45.1% v. 46%
3pt%: 47.4% v. 31.7%
FT%: 83.4% v. 78.6%
APG: 7.9 v. 7.2
TO: 3.3 v 3.6
steals: 2.8 v. 1.5
rebounds: 5.4 v. 2.9
cp3 was (IS) a much better defender, turns it over lightly less. Johnny Flynn got to the rim better and has a more developed mid range game at that point, but CP3 had more range.
Both proved at that point in there career to be big game players (3OTs for flynn anyone?). Obviously, the hardest part to compare is leadership on court and vision…. we all know this is possibly CP3’s greatest skill…. Flynn shows ability to lead.
He wont be CP3 but he could be a upper teir pg in nba in 3 years because he seems to have that work ethic. When I see way guys like Rondo develop, it gives me alot of hope
Not intentionally punching an opponent in the balls is something Flynn has going for him in this comparison…
by Missing Barry on Jun 6, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
IMO
There is no way flynn andm onta could nver play together…. that being said, i’d still draft him if he’s best available. Itll take him 1-2 years to become a real viable nba player… And at that point you got trade bait…. flynn or monta.
No on Jennings and Holiday
Flynn will be a STAR, he’s a far better player than Jennings and Holiday. Holiday couldn’t play pg on his own college team, now your going to convince me that he can make the Warriors competitive. Jennings struggled in Europe, I know its a tough transition over there but his game is not imposing enough, he makes the nice highlight pass or screws up. Flynn has been in a leadership role and comfortable with the task. I’ll go on record to say Flynn will be a better PG than Monta will be at SG or PG. He’s explosive and fundamentally sound. Monta (I luv Monta too) has not done anything to say he’s leading the Dubs anywhere, he’s not untouchable.
russell westbrook didnt play pg on his college team
okc seems happy. Although he is not the athlete westbrook is
Uh Oh
Ur DEF gonna get some grief about such a statement like that?!
by The Dedication on Jun 6, 2009 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Uh Oh
Ur DEF gonna get some grief about such a statement like that?!
by The Dedication on Jun 6, 2009 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm being a Flynn fan
I hope we pick him….. Let him backup monta for a year, if he develops well…. trade monta. Watching orlando play for ex…. you dont think they’d love monta?
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