Make a Move for a Veteran and Push for the Playoffs, or wait it and be Patient….
by warriorsscore110 on May 31, 2009 2:11 PM PDT
27 comments
The chatter from Team R/R (Riley and Rowell) during their press conferences and conference call was that anything less than making the playoffs would be a disappointment and that with a healthy team and an addition or 2 would be a playoff team. While we can all understand why Team R/R would want to go all out and make a desperate grab for the 8th seed (seeing how the fan base reacted after our last brief playoff appearance and the debacle that was the 08-09 season both on and off the court) is that the best plan for the franchise?
-Problem, we won 29 games last year. What can we expect from the youngsters? A healthy Monta Ellis will obviously help the most. A healthy prepared combination of Wright/Randolph can solidify the 4 position. We also have a stable of under 25 players (Biedrins, Turiaf, Morrow, Belinelli, Azibuike and possibly Kurz, Davidson, and Watson if they are brought back) but can we really expect giant improvement from any of those guys. Not sure that even with a trade where we give up some youngsters and try to upgrade with a proven veteran would make us a team that can compete for the playoffs.
If that’s the plan where do we go? The obvious move would be trying to move Belinelli and Wright along with either Maggette or Crawford for an upgrade at some position. What can we get for that, in this economy and the possible mega 2010 free agent class, teams might be wary on taking back a contract like Maggette or Crawford. But there are a lot of possibilities, with a plethora of young players and the 7th pick of the draft there are several possibilities.
When you’re a 29 win team you should obviously be blowing up the phones seeing what type of options are out there, maybe the best plan is just to wait it out. We have a couple of really good looking young players (Ellis and Biedrins) and a bunch of other young players that can possibly be really good players (Azibuike, Wright, Morrow, Belinelli, and definitely Randolph). Quick fixes don’t work very often; maybe it’s time to accept the fact that we are not a playoff team. Let the young players develop, find out who can really be an impact player in the NBA, and look to shop either Maggette or Crawford (with some young players) for some expiring contracts. Taking a step back for the next year or 2, might actually make us a really good young team 3 years from now with a decent amount of cap space (see Portland and New Orleans; soon Minnesota and Oklahoma City). It probably won’t be the most popular idea, but it might be the best idea if we want to become a franchise that can compete deep in the playoffs one day.
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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Woot
Made the count 100% to 0%
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or Tyreke Evans. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Conductor of the We're Back Warrior Movement!
by ejdacanay on May 31, 2009 2:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Anyways
Great teams always build through the draft, this goes for all team sports; NBA, MLB, NFL, and the NHL. All our players with 4 years of experience or less, with the exception of Ronny, are all homegrown and they all have talent. But we still need someone to build around, AR may be that guy, but it’s too early to tell. Ellis, in my opinion, is not a Franchise player nor is Jax or C-Mag. If we can swing a trade without getting rid of our pick for a perennial all star ala Bosh, Amare, etc. and place good young pieces around that player, I do believe we will be NBA Western Conference stalwarts for years to come.
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or Tyreke Evans. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Conductor of the We're Back Warrior Movement!
by ejdacanay on May 31, 2009 2:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you. Nobody wants to trade away their superstars so unless we get one in the draft, free agents are our only hope. This is how Portland gor Roy and how the Hornets got CP3.
We’ve already screwed our chances at having cap space for next year’s free agent class so we better draft well if we want to build our team. Trading Monta, Biedrins, Randolph would be a lateral step at best and most likely a step backwards.
by NextSeason on Jun 1, 2009 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trading Monta, Biedrins, Randolph would be a lateral step at best
- even for Bosh? That’s the one player I think we could land, extend and who would make a difference for us in the WC … other than that tho, barring a miracle I’d agree
by hardcore on Jun 2, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
?
Are you saying that you’d trade Monta, Andris and Randolph in a package to get Bosh? Or did you mean you’d be willing to include any one (or two) of them?
Thing 2
by olympicmike on Jun 2, 2009 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Monta and either Wright or Randolph if necessary for Bosh ...
or use Andris and 1/2 of our wings (KAz, Morrow, Marco, Maggs … whatever makes the deal work)
for a previous lengthy entry & discussion, see:
http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2009/3/16/798728/truth-hurts
by hardcore on Jun 2, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotcha...
I thought you were advocating a deal of Monta, Andris and Randolph for Bosh + whatever.
Like I said down below, I’m not sure if there is a realistic scenario where acquiring Bosh makes that much sense for us. I’m not sold on him as a franchise cornerstone, and we’d likely have to give up a lot to get him and then reserve a good portion of the shrinking cap to keep him around for a while. I’d don’t think that’s a great way to build a winner here.
Thing 2
by olympicmike on Jun 2, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the team's not going to compete for a championship in the next 2 years
so just do everything to attempt to build a powerhouse for the next decade.
LeBron James? I'm the only Ty Crane.
by misterjennings on May 31, 2009 2:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes, that makes the most sense.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on May 31, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
let's hope Cohan/RR
will see it that way instead of trying to squeeze into the playoffs as an 8th seed each year just to keep selling seats and promising improvement
LeBron James? I'm the only Ty Crane.
by misterjennings on May 31, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think that options 1 and 2 aren’t this year. a healthy monta ellis will be a huge help in the wins column, as well as an improving anthony randolph getting significant burn at the power forward. is that good enough to push us into the playoffs? probably not, but the team should at least be competitive and remain in the conversation until the end of the year.
obviously, if the right trade comes along, you make it, but if we move either ellis, biedrins, or randolph, we better get something very good in return. i just don’t expect anything huge to happen this year, outside of maybe dealing crawford for bits and pieces. we need to keep stockpiling assets and hoping to make something big happen when the opportunity presents itself.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on May 31, 2009 2:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
oops
options one and two aren’t that different this year. two important words that i left out of that.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on May 31, 2009 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
as much as i want the warriors to make the playoffs
i think building around our young core of Ellis, Andris and Randolph may be the way to go. There is no reason to believe all of those 3 won’t develop and improve over the next couple years as well as Wright Morrow Marco Bukie and Turiaf. Unless we can get Bosh and Kidd while not giving up our core(ME AR AB) maybe bukie,morrow while not messing up our C position i think our best bet is to develop our team. The best case senario would be trying to win while developing our team.
by GSW9 on May 31, 2009 3:06 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
The best case senario would be trying to win while developing our team ...
… or is it trying to develop our team and win along the way?
- obviously we want both but one priority has to take precedence: win or develop, and up till now the club has tried to do both and it hasn’t worked (yet). At various times, I’ve argued both sides of this issue (Time for Nelson to Opt Out, Truth Hurts, Finding Hope for the Home Team) but the fact is, we may not even have a choice anymore.
Last summer we had a choice, and we were in a pretty decent cap-shape after Mullin was finally able to extricate GSW from earlier poor decisions. At the time Baron left, I wrote we should go into development mode (Time for Nelson to Opt out). And, not surprisingly, critics slammed that idea as an overly desperate reaction after a 48 win season. That train left the station. Subsequently we signed Maggette, extended Jackson, and traded for Crawford. One moped and 29 wins later, we have expensive veterans who will be difficult to move in a trade and need to play, if they stay, alongside young players who need to play to develop.
The odds of being able to move the young players in a trade for a veteran who could help us win now (not a championship, but maybe get to the WCF) are better than our likelihood of moving the expensive veterans. However, the odds of getting a difference maker are also long – or non-existent in the case of FA. That plane already took off. We simply aren’t likely going to be getting great offers this summer – and most certainly if we aren’t going include Monta, Andris, or AR we aren’t going to get a difference maker. We are what we are, and I’m losing hope that our FO, with or without Mullin now and Nelson a year from now, would be able to remold this roster significantly in the coming year.
So we may not have any choice anymore – if we can’t move any veterans, and we aren’t likely to, and we can’t get a difference maker for our younger talent, we missed both the train and the plane. My guess is the upcoming season will be marketed as the coronation of Nelson as he approaches the all-time wins record, and he should barring an unforeseen event, but I’m beginning to think the next opportunity to really make a substantial change with the roster will be when Crawford’s contract enters it’s final year. So what choice do WE have anymore? Do we abandon GSW? Nah, we continue to hope against rationality. We are also what we are – fans.
by hardcore on May 31, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is why it’s so frustrating to be a Warriors fan:
“The chatter from Team R/R (Riley and Rowell) during their press conferences and conference call was that anything less than making the playoffs would be a disappointment and that with a healthy team and an addition or 2 would be a playoff team. "
More than half the teams in the NBA make the playoffs. On average, we should make it about every other year. The Warriors ownership treats making it into the playoffs as a huge accomplishment. If we make it next year, that’ll put us on an every other year pace over 3 years, as we should be. Great accomplishment, assholes (directed at the Warriors ownership).
by Missing Barry on May 31, 2009 8:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
great post.
no stupid trades to scratch out an eight seed, if even that.
by KeepdaCore on Jun 1, 2009 8:33 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
people are who they are
not who we hope or wish they were. ellis and biedrins are close to their ceiling/full nba potential—the small tweaks they might manage will not make them into franchise-transformers. even with rapid improvement from randolph and morrow, until the team acquires at least one elite player, at best it’s a 42-50 win team. Looking at how the team is actually run, success is defined for them in terms of those hefty ticket increases over the last three years, and how well they can market the present high scoring, mis-fitted bunch, hoping they can stay within a few games of seventh or eighth place through the winter. even if they manage to add a young star from the draft, it’s unrealistic to expect the kind of difference-making from a rookie that Rose, or Duncan, or Barry made.
there’s lots of buzz about how important adding a lead guard would be, and certainly the front line w. Biedrins, Turiaf, Randolph is stronger than recent vintage squads. But the best teams have top level players at either the 2 or 3 or both; those positions have limited potential with ellis, jackson, m’gette, so at least one of those three must be replaced by someone more dynamic on both ends of the floor, in addition to finding that lead guard.
by the.monk on Jun 1, 2009 12:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
“not who we hope or wish they were. ellis and biedrins are close to their ceiling/full nba potential”
What makes you think this? Keep in mind they’re both 23. It may not be likely that they get a lot better, but claiming they’ve reached their full potential already is a little bit premature. I agree with most of your points, I just don’t understand why you’re down on Ellis. In his third year removed from high school he scored over 20 ppg while shooting over 53% from the field. He’s not Lebron or anything, but that’s a pretty good player, especially if he puts in the effort to play alright D consistently.
by Missing Barry on Jun 1, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NBA is a business= USA corporate business is famous for short term thinking only...
……the RR’s will probably make the usual stupid trades for their short term job security+Nelli’s swan song……if not this year then in the near future….
by Only In Fairfax on Jun 1, 2009 1:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The warriors front office won’t get anyone good. they suck. They will just develop their young players and then trade them for other rookies.
.. So warriors are always in rebuilding mode
Plus
How can you not hold a team together for more than 2 years
Everyone from We Believe pretty much left after it which is why there is no more We Believe. Do you see any other front office doing that?
by GSW_fan on Jun 1, 2009 10:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
JRich was really the only key contributor who left after the We Believe year.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 1, 2009 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ummm… foyle?
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 1, 2009 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well We Believe was only 2 years ago and Barnes, Richardson, Davis, Pietrus, Harrington are all gone…
by Missing Barry on Jun 2, 2009 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
how about we develop what we got,
draft young pg and hope someone gets desperate mid-season and offers something nice for maggette. no need to go crazy.stay patient for once.
by KeepdaCore on Jun 1, 2009 11:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
We're probably a 40+ win team next year, at least ...
… just with the addition of a healthy and motivated Monta for a full season.
(Of course, that’s not a given).
But that means that the playoffs aren’t really a stretch one or the other. And it means that gutting any part of our core to add the 5 or so wins which would make the playoffs certain is just stupid.
I’m all for trading some of our young guys if it lands us a superstar (although I don’t think BOsh is that superstar.) But for some random veteran who gives us a few extra wins? Stupid, stupid, stupid.
by Ronaldinho on Jun 2, 2009 11:36 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
We’re probably a 40+ win team next year, at least …
That’s the interesting thing about this team. You could make a reasonable case that they’ll will 45 games next year, but you could also make a reasonable case that we’ll end up around 35. In fact it doesn’t take a whole lot of imagination to see us finishing worse than we did this year if we catch a couple tough breaks.
I’m all for trading some of our young guys if it lands us a superstar (although I don’t think BOsh is that superstar.)
+1 on the Bosh comment. The more I look at that situation I can’t come up with a realistic scenario where we acquire and retain Bosh that actually makes sense for us. It will probably take a lot to get him and he will be looking for max money. When you look at it, he’s just not that good of a player.
Thing 2
by olympicmike on Jun 2, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I’m not entirely against a Bosh trade….but it has to include AT LEAST one of Crawford and Maggette (probably both) and no more than one of Monta, Biedrins, Randolph, or Wright. That doesn’t mean I’d agree to any combination of those pieces, I’m just saying that if it were up to me the conversation would end as soon as they came up with something that didn’t fit those rules. I was a lot bigger on Bosh several months ago when I thought there was a strong chance we’d be able to keep him. Now I’m not so sure, it seems like the odds of a LeBron/Bosh pairing somewhere (probably Cleveland) are growing. I’m not sure I’d be willing to offer anything more than Wright/Belinelli/Crawford/Maggette for Bosh/Banks now, and most teams around the league would have to be pretty sure they wouldn’t be able to re-sign him for that to be the best offer Toronto gets.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 2, 2009 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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