Unorthodox Strategies: David and Goliath and the full court press

by jae on May 7, 2009 10:08 AM PDT Comment 7 comments

It seems to me that the team that dictates the style of play in a game has a much better chance of winning. Think back on those Loyola Marymount teams from the early 90s that pressed and ran and scared the pants off of more talented squads in the NCAA Tourney. No one was ready for them. Think of the RUN-TMC era squads that would at times feature Rod Higgins at center. Nellie-coached teams have been characteristically unorthodox and make the opposition uncomfortable, forcing up the pace when the other team wants to slow it down, to have forwards handling the ball and to come at you from all directions, to bring something that the opposition just cannot regularly prepare for. It doesn't always work, but it certainly is interesting.

Journalist/Author Malcolm Gladwell has an interesting article in the latest issue of the New Yorker entitled: How David Beats Goliath: when underdogs break the rules. I never thought I would find an article that details the story of a Jr. High School aged girls' basketball team to be even remotely interesting, but this one is definitely worth the (rather lengthy) read. The short story: if you aren't better than your opponent, don't try to beat them at their game. Make them play yours. It's got some local angles; the team was from Redwood City. Also featured: a where_is_he_now sighting of former 49er great running back Roger Craig.

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great read

thanks for posting that jae. its quite an interesting article that transcends basketball. it really shows the power of creativity and strategic thinking. an extreme example of this in sports (football) is the A-11 offense that was pioneered in the bay area at piedmont HS. unfortunately it was recently banned by high school sporting bureaus. i’m not too familiar with it, so i can’t speak as to why….

as for the full court press, i don’t believe any NBA team would use it full time. the NBA is full of high paid professionals and the league is more focused on entertainment rather than gimmicks (running team vs. small ball). it would be hard to get NBA players to buy into an all game full court press because they’re too lazy. teams are willing to play uptempo if it has players suited to do so (see the phoenix suns) however, they are unwilling to go to “gimmicks” like nellie’s small ball.

in basketball “gimmicks” are difficult to win with especially at the NBA level. full cout press is by no means a gimmick and i’m sure it would be successful if a coach was willing to get his team to implement it. however, this is the reason why other creative methods in basketball. for example, i saw something on ESPN about a college team (i forget what division) which would sub out all 5 players every minute and have them play full court press defense, push the ball on offense and shoot within the first 8-10 seconds of the shot clock. they had certain goals they wanted to achieve per game such as steals and 3pt shots attempted (something like over 40). it was ridiculous and they didn’t care for defense at all.

‘gimmicks’ like this and small ball dont work in the NBA for long periods of time because (as everyone knows) all the players are too athletic. the warriors could design an offense to spread the floor with 5 guards who were all skilled and could shoot, handle and pass the ball. however, when you go back on defense and face a specimen like dwight howard, who is just as athletic as any guard and a lot bigger. that said, creative thinking can still be utilized on a smaller scale to accomplish specific things. however, it is difficult in a sport like basketball to use gimmicks that will work on both the offensive and defensive side of the ball.

anyway, regardless, its good to know that other GSOMers are intelligent people who are so informed and are interested and willing to read things like the New Yorker.

by gogoldenbears on May 7, 2009 11:07 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

interesting read

article is interesting to both the coach and historian … but for all Pitino’s success at Kentucky, Boston, etc they conveniently leave out his marginal level of success with the Knicks at the pro-level and weren’t able to provide a successful example from the NBA because there aren’t any … problem with the press is that the higher the skill level of ball, the less ball handlers are impacted by pressure and the more they can exploit the gaps in the defense which is spread all over the floor. Pitinio’s Knicks had Cartwright and Ewing yet he still tried that strategy, which did not work nearly as well as it had in college. What Nelson is usually able to do is get the most out of the talent he has and uses the unconventional when it fits his talent (the Mavs were a pretty conventional roster, despite Dirk’s unconventional skill set, and he used pretty conventional tactics by and large there). I don’t think the pressing style would work for extended periods in the NBA, particularly with our cast of characters. As the coach in the article said, it takes a “maniacle” ATTITUDE, which we sorely lack on defense from the coach down to the players.

by hardcore on May 7, 2009 11:12 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

There’s never been a championship level success from unorthodox ball, but don’t you think that some of the ‘small ball’ success is a variant on the non-traditional strategy. It has its limits though. At the NBA level, the talent is just too good. Guys can break the press and when they do, it’s an easy 2. It’s similar to the option in football. It works great in HS and some in college, but when you get to the pros where linebackers move like college safeties and cut off the corner and defensive ends can come off a block and close ground to the ball before the lateral is made, it’s not something that would be as successful. However, I suspect mixing it in on occasion as a trick play would still work even then.

The article was a bit hyperbolic, of course. Pitino had some pretty good players at UK. It wasn’t Antoine and the nobodies. Mashburn had a pretty good NBA career. There were a good half dozen or more players on his squads that played some NBA ball.

by jae on May 7, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

but don’t you think that some of the ‘small ball’ success is a variant on the non-traditional strategy

yup, just like the four corners offense (throwing that in as a mutual UNC fan) was …

small ball, pressing, option attacks, they all fade in effectiveness as the talent level rises – in the end the biggest and most skilled win most of the time, just as the article pointed out, even if not as often as we’d think or expect. … but, since we’re warriors fans, all we have left is hope that we can be the David until and unless we grow into Goliath. Say, whatever happed to that David guy anyway?

by hardcore on May 7, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And if you dont want to read it

NPR will be talking about it today. (1 O’clock hr I think)

There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.

by qin on May 7, 2009 12:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

interesting read

Are you hinting that the Warriors should press more?

I believe it could benefit us. Unfortunately, there’s little hope that we’ll be able to significantly improve our roster this offseason. But what we do know is that our backups can hang with other teams’ starters. Depth is our team’s biggest strength. If we add another PG (with the MLE or through the draft), and get everyone committed to high intensity press defense, we can literally run teams out of the arena and keep our players fresh with constant substitution.

"We Deserve"

by YaHeard on May 7, 2009 1:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I remember my high school girls basketball team ...

… made it to the state finals. Maybe it was the semis. Anyway, they were an aggressive, pressing team. And they kicked everybody’s butt. But then they ran into Lisa Leslie.

And we couldn’t press ’em. The other team would lob the ball in to Leslie, and break. Nobody on our team was tall enough to contest her for it. Leslie would turn downcourt, spot a streaking player, and pass her the ball … press broken.

Then she’d move down the court, set up under the basket, receive a lob pass and score easily.

I have a feeling that something like this would happen if you tried to go too small in the NBA, even with a press. There are simply too many big men who are too athletic, and who have too many skills.

On the other hand, I think about the prototypical forward who should be able to break down that kind of play, and I think of Chris Webber. And one of the things that Webber is most famous for is that uncalled-travel-followed-by-a-timeout-they-didn’t-have in the finals against UNC. Maybe he woudln’t have been able to deal with the pressure as a pro.

More likely, I think, is something like what happened to the Warriors in Nellie’s first era. We’d exploit all sorts of mismatches, get 50 wins in the regular season … and then in the playoffs, with the ability to game-plan against us, we’d get squeezed out.

But isn’t that sort of what D’antoni did in Pheonix? Now, people will say “they never won a championship” but that’s at least in part because their best chance was cut short by some absurd suspensions.

by Ronaldinho on May 7, 2009 2:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs