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Interesting stuff. Jennings dropping so low on that list is a surprise while Flynn and Curry are looking really good to the GMs and execs interviewed. We'll see what happens in the 5 on 5 drills.

5 months ago Nellie2_tiny cap'n hack 56 comments 5 recs  | 

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wow...

Curry and Flynn ranked higher than Holiday, Jennings, and Evans.

by Sharunas Marchulenis on Jun 1, 2009 11:13 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

weird

but i guess if u look at the averages….flyn curry and holiday are basically identical…

and with jennings…i think it looks more and more like GMs dont wanna take a risk to get him

“Flynn cracked the 6-foot barrier in shoes” lol

i dunno why GMs take into account their interviewing skills? i guess it shows just how much of a business this is…

im still hopin we get holiday…good upside…good defense…can play as a true point…all things we need regardless of if ellis becomes a point or not

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawk on Jun 1, 2009 11:21 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Jennings is definitely high risk-high reward type player…He is either a star or a bust. The other guys probably have a lower ceiling than him but they will definitely contribute

by bushido on Jun 2, 2009 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

you can read a kids maturity in interview skills. After pg’s like sebastian telfair, teams want to know especially for the raw kids… what kind of worth ethic they have…. will they work at it like a kobe, or will they be content with there first million dollar check and be a back up

by tafkasam on Jun 8, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...

Bassy was definitely the first raw prospect with a bad work ethic…

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
Marco Belinelli : Larry Bird

A) R Dizzle : AB1
B) AB1 : R Dizzle
C) OM : Sleepy
D) Sleepy : OM
E) None of the above

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 9, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i dunno why GMs take into account their interviewing skills? i guess it shows just how much of a business this is…

Maturity plays a HUGE role in how successful players are.

Thing A

by sam23 on Jun 1, 2009 12:52 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

annnnnd now they’ve switched it to an insider article. sorry everyone who doesn’t have insider and tries to see the list, but here’s some of the stuff of note that i remember:

-rubio ranked first, but not by the margin you might expect (averaging a 1.9 in gm rankings)
-curry and flynn finished 2 and 3 respectively. flynn is supposedly really charasmatic and a little taller than people thought; he just cracked 6 ft.
-jennings is sitting at 7 on these rankings, one spot below jeff teague, who does absolutely nothing for me. jennings’ decision not to show up to eurocamp is not helping his stock.
-moral of the story: the futures of these point guards are murky at best and we should continue to see a lot of big board shuffling in the coming weeks.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 1, 2009 1:36 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

teague is very quick

with a very good outside shooter…. the monta comparison are feasible… although lou williams is probably a safer bet

by tafkasam on Jun 8, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The good news is I think the top 12 guys on their list are all better than Watson, so regardless of what we do with our first round pick, we should be able to get a backup PG with our second round pick. *Note: I think Calathes is headed to Europe if we pick him.

So I typed that paragraph, then went to check what pick # our second round pick is and found out we traded it. Awesome. Well trading back into the 2nd round is easy enough, I definitely think we should do it to get a backup PG.

by Missing Barry on Jun 1, 2009 2:24 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Calathes has already signed in Europe

by BacksThePack on Jun 2, 2009 6:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

3 years, 2.1 million Euro

If we took him, we wouldn’t have him for at least two years IMO. He’s likely to get his rights picked in the 2nd Rd, but that’s it.

by BacksThePack on Jun 2, 2009 7:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Picking an international player in the 2nd round will actually get them on the team faster than picking them in the first. First round picks are guaranteed a slot contract – while 2nd round picks actually have more flexibility to negotiate a contract. For American players, a 2nd rounder has no leverage whatsoever since they don’t have a guaranteed contract and can only negotiate with one team, but for European players with buyouts and big contracts in Europe already, they have enough leverage to get a bigger contract in the 2nd round than they would in the 1st (unless they’re a top 5 pick or so).

by Missing Barry on Jun 2, 2009 8:05 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

smokescreen anyone?

Is anyone else skeptical of these ratings? I could definitely see GMs downplaying the value of Jennings and Holiday in hopes that they might fall to them in the draft. It’s just suspicious to me that everywhere else I look, Holiday’s stock is risingand everyone has Jenningspicked second among PGs…

by NextSeason on Jun 2, 2009 4:00 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

do anonymous smokescreens work? i mean, if one gm thinks that jennings is the 3rd best player in the draft, what good does it do to say that he’s the 8th best point guard? i highly doubt that any gm is looking at an anonymous poll and chaning their mind about these guys.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 2, 2009 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think GM’s do play these kinds of games. Dunno how effective they are, but teams definitely try to mask their picks.

by Missing Barry on Jun 2, 2009 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

but anonymously? i can’t see what the rationale would be.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 2, 2009 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well it’s not exactly annonymously. Chad Ford knew who gave what answers. I could see a GM thinking if they downplay a guy, they can try to help get him to drop to them. Obviously it wouldn’t stop the teams ahead of them from picking the guy, but it might get a team behind them who could trade up to misread how high up they need to go to get him. Again, not sure how effective it would be, but I could definitely see GM’s trying to give Chad Ford a smokescreen.

by Missing Barry on Jun 2, 2009 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

if one gm thinks that jennings is the 3rd best player in the draft, what good does it do to say that he’s the 8th best point guard?

What good would it do to say he’s the 3rd? None. At least if you lie and say he’s the 8th you have a chance of getting his “stock” to dip, lessening the buzz about them, getting journalists to say “why did he rate him 8th, maybe I should look for some negatives or red flags”, getting fans to read those articles and further reduce the buzz, getting the stupid GMs (typically the ones at the top) to start worrying about taking a “boom or bust” pick that’s “looking” like more of a bust with all your fans talking about how he’s a bust because 5 GMs just rated him the 8th best PG prospect.

Any edge is a good edge. If I was the Warriors GM and wanted a certain player, I’d DEFINITELY write in anonymously to Chad Ford, Memphis Grizzlies blogs, Oklahoma Thunder blogs, Sacramento Kings blogs, etc. (I don’t really see that as hypocritical because it’s marketing warfare directed at a competitor, not my customers), saying bad things about the player I wanted in an effort to lower my target player’s “stock.” Anything to get the job done.

All saying “I love player X” does from a GM standpoint is give your competition information they can use as leverage against you in negotiations. From an anonymous source, it gives your competition more support for choosing that player themselves.

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
R Dizzle = Wannabe AB1

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 3, 2009 7:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What good would it do to say he’s the 3rd? None.

one scenario is that it might get a team like Sac to draft a guy like Jason Thompson earlier than anyone else projected, thus allowing the player you actually coveted to fall down.

by the evil monkey on Jun 5, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's exactly my point

Hype up the players you don’t want, and pretend to be “down” on the players you do like.

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
Marco Belinelli : Larry Bird

A) R Dizzle : AB1
B) AB1 : R Dizzle
C) OM : Sleepy
D) Sleepy : OM
E) None of the above

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 8, 2009 7:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

the thing with jennings

most teams wont like him, but all it takes is 1 or 2 who r high on him….. he doesnt have enough exerience/exposure of play to impress most gm’s

by tafkasam on Jun 8, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I get the obsession Johnny Flynn

He is incredibly quick, gets in lane well and to line alot, good mid-range game, GREAT head on his shoulders, showed real heart and clutch play, and something that’s undermentioned… despite being undersized he’s long (longer than monta for reference) and very strong… so he could be a good defender. To me, what i’ve seen…. He looks like kid who can fufill his potential and be a quality nba starting pg…. success of players like aaron brooks and rajon rondo, bode well for him

Stephon Curry i DONT get. He has right mentality, but he’s not that athletic, and i think in pro’s will just be a spot up shooter…. could be an Eddie house really….

by tafkasam on Jun 8, 2009 11:06 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Could be a similar player to Mark Price/Steve Kerr. Lights out shooter. Runs the point. Good basketball IQ. Not a bad player to have at all (and Price is a very good player to have).

by Missing Barry on Jun 8, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

true

if u have a slashing sg/sf next to him like say michael jordan and scottie pippen (in kerr’s case), its all good

by tafkasam on Jun 8, 2009 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

monta can slash as well as anybody

so can buki

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawk on Jun 8, 2009 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’ll give you Monta, but you’ve been drinking way too much front office Kool-Aid if you feel that way about Azubuike.

by Missing Barry on Jun 8, 2009 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

idk

ive seen buki make some sick slashes….same with AR

i guess i shouldnt have put ‘as well as anybody’ with someone other than monta

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawk on Jun 8, 2009 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

buike is a great backup

but nothing more on a real playoff team…. he can do everything reasonably, but nothing exceptional

by tafkasam on Jun 8, 2009 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

didnt he finish

like 4th in 3 pnt shootin?

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawk on Jun 9, 2009 3:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes but he has alot of limitations….. defensively he’s subpar. He is a bad passer, he is selfish to rim like maggette but not NEAR the finisher. his 3pt shooting was all catch and shoot. He does rebound well for his position. I’m not saying he’s bad… but he is what he is… a 3-6 mil a year player…. so in that regard we got ourselves a good deal

by tafkasam on Jun 9, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i wouldnt call him a sub par defender

hes above average imo

and whats wrong with being a catch and shoot 3 pnt shooter when u have good ability to drive

and unlike maggette….hes young…and CHEAP and still growing

value wise he’s one of our better deals

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawk on Jun 9, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

hes above average imo

well he’s above average compared to other players on the Warriors, but that’s not saying much.

and still growing

meh. most players don’t get much better after their first 3 or 4 seasons in the league. guys like Chauncey Billups are the exception, not the rule. most guys are pretty much the same players in year 6 as they were in year 3.

by the evil monkey on Jun 13, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah I don’t think anyone sees Curry as a star or anything, just a pretty solid bet to be a solid player.

by Missing Barry on Jun 8, 2009 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

the mike bibby comparison has been floating around for a while too, which seems fair considering how well he adjusted to being a distributor without the benefit of having any other scorers on his team.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 8, 2009 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

aaahhhh larry riley's best drat pick

oh wait… he passed on vince carter, antawn jamison, dirk nowitski, paul peirce for bibby… FAIL

by tafkasam on Jun 8, 2009 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

maybe i’m missing something, but considering how weak this draft is, would you really be upset if we got someone on mike bibby’s level at the 7 spot? it’s not as though there is an obvious carter, jamison, nowitzki or pierce who will be available when we pick.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 8, 2009 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

no, but my point was he isnt the best talent evaluator....

it wasnt gettring a bibby was bad, its getting bibby over those players… pierce and carter peticularly were studs coming out, everyone knew it.

by tafkasam on Jun 9, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

fair enough, i don’t care to defend larry riley as a talent evaluator, just stephen curry as a basketball player.

one thing though, no one knew dirk was going to be as great as he was. he did get traded for tractor traylor before he even played a game. most people would have taken bibby over him. most people would have been wrong, but in almost every draft you can look at the guys who were passed on and declare that whoever was picking was stupid for missing them. hindsight makes that easy. for all i know, larry riley can’t evaluate talent, but fortunately, the guy who helped swing that dirk for tractor trade is going to be helping him out. let’s hope for the best.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 9, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

though in fairness to Riley, Stu Jackson was the real guy making the decisions in ‘94-’00 he held the titles as the President & GM of the Vancouver Grizzlies during those 6 seasons.

at least in terms of drafting, Nelson>Stu Jackson.

by the evil monkey on Jun 13, 2009 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Plus they both have similar skin tone!

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
Marco Belinelli : Larry Bird

A) R Dizzle : AB1
B) AB1 : R Dizzle
C) OM : Sleepy
D) Sleepy : OM
E) None of the above

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 9, 2009 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and they both played for teams called the wildcats in college. i fail to see how anyone could doubt the validity of that comparison.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 9, 2009 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And they both do similar weird things with their mouths in these pictures, dribble with their left hand, have close cropped haircuts, like wearing white jerseys with red stripes, etc. OMG!!!!

There’s no way Curry becomes anything but Mike Bibby!

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
Marco Belinelli : Larry Bird

A) R Dizzle : AB1
B) AB1 : R Dizzle
C) OM : Sleepy
D) Sleepy : OM
E) None of the above

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 10, 2009 7:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

both of their jersey numbers are multiples of 10 and have dark blue lettering on the jerseys. the similarities are endless.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 10, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know

I didn’t notice that earlier. They must be telekinetic! Don’t tell anyone!

You have been DFiBrillated.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 12, 2009 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

except that curry is more athletic than you’re giving him credit for. check the combine numbers; he wasn’t much worse than (for example) jrue holiday in speed and agility, but had a better vertical leap and was stronger.

not to mention his considerable improvement as a point guard after playing the 2 his whole life. he might not be a “natural point” if such a thing exists, but he’s shown the ability to adapt to playing the point guard position very well and in the years to come, we should see continued improvement from his fairly strong showing at that position. i’m not exactly sure what else the guy needs to do to demonstrate that he’s not just a spot up shooter.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 8, 2009 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t know if you ever watched Curry play, but I just really didn’t see that athleticism out of him when he played more athletic players like Mills and Gerald Henderson. The only combine numbers I think are worthwhile are height, weight, standing reach and wingspan.

by Missing Barry on Jun 8, 2009 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i’d say that his athleticism is a question mark (no from me on that one) and i hold your same skepticism about combine athletic drills, but the point was that he isn’t some slow footed guy who can’t do anything but stand in the corner and fire up 3s. i just think the concerns about his athleticism are overblown. he brings enough to the table where he should be a solid nba player, even he isn’t likely to win a foot race with very many point guards.

and i watched a fair amount of stephen curry in the past couple of seasons. i loved watching the guy play and think that his game isn’t as incompatible with nba success as many people have been saying.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 8, 2009 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

typo: “(no argument from me on that one)”

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 8, 2009 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah I’d agree with that. He’s not a bad athlete, and I think a lot of people are realizing that through the pre-draft process.

by Missing Barry on Jun 8, 2009 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

or it could be that Jrue is not very athletic (which could explain his troubles playing SG this past season at UCLA).

then again guys like Bibby & Mo Williams don’t really scream athleticism either.

by the evil monkey on Jun 13, 2009 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The only combine numbers I think are worthwhile are height, weight, standing reach and wingspan.

definitely the most important, but the other numbers shouldn’t be thrown away. unless someone goes through the tests injured like Monta, you can see general trends.

you usually see less athletic guys like Kapono, Dunleavy, Diener, Marcus Williams or Redick test poorly in “no step” vertical & max vertical. it’s really a great way to spot a red flag player who is being considered for the lottery: From draftexpress,

At the top of the list is Marcus Williams, who is, according to the combine results, one of the most unathletic guards to ever be considered a top 10 pick…..Patrick O’Bryant, who we watched twice over the past few weeks put on an incredible show of leaping ability and explosiveness (during the NCAA tourney), measured out as being slow, stiff and with very little leaping ability.
going through the list i think Boozer is the only all star to have measured with a no step vertical of 26.5", but it’s less of an issue with big men than it seems to be with guards (and Boozer posted a time in the agility drills that a PG would have been proud of (which of current NBA PFs only Nene has matched)).

it also doesn’t mean that jumping out of the building guarantees anything, but the Wade’s, Brandon Roy’s, CP3’s, Amare’s, Vince’s, Josh or Dwight Howard’s, Bosh, etc, all test out well in this area. even the less athletic (for the NBA) guys like Al Jefferson, Haslem, Troy Murphy, Jameer, David West, Wally Sczerbiak, Heinrich test out decently in the 28-29 range.

not everyone has jumped, but here is the list:
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=All&sort2=DESC&draft=0&pos=0&sort=8

it’s really a great way to spot guys who just aren’t athletic enough to play in the NBA.

by the evil monkey on Jun 13, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah maybe it can be used as a minimum barometer, but judging the bulk of players based on their combine results doesn’t generally give you a great picture of their athleticism. The guy that performs the best in the combine will rarely be the best athlete, and most guys will be in a range where a couple of inches each way or a couple of seconds each way don’t tell you a whole lot. Josh Powell had a higher vert than Dwayne Wade, for example – both have the athleticism necessary for the NBA, but trying to determine who’s the better athlete based on these results in most cases just isn’t possible.

by Missing Barry on Jun 14, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh definitely. i was just pointing out that those numbers are useful in determining whether the guy is an NBA athlete and that while there are exceptions, the majority of all-star players tended to display a certain level of athleticism above even that bottom area.

looks like Curry at least fits those barometers, whether he’s closer to the Powell or Wade category is unknown.

by the evil monkey on Jun 15, 2009 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

IF I had to rank today....

I’d go as far to say
1. Rubio
2. Flynn
3. Holiday
4. Evans (might be better suited as a 2)
5. Jennings
6. Patty Mills
7. Lawson

After that and everyone else is backup material….I’m notsaying these 7 are going to legitimate nba starters, but i think they have best chance…

by tafkasam on Jun 8, 2009 11:09 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

the thing that sucks

is that we really have not seen enough of jennings to determine where he will be….#1 PG, or #7 PG…i hope we get some info on draftexpress….he just came back to the USA to play with some teams

currently for me its:

1) rubio
2) holiday
3) flynn
4) evans
5) curry

and i dont have jennings anywhere b/c i really dont know enough about him outside of high school and very limited min in europe….if we could actually see how he does against other prospects…then it would be easier to evaluate….for all i know he could be #1 or #6

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawk on Jun 8, 2009 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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