RUMOR: Warriors promised Monta Ellis they will not draft a play-making guard to appease him
by Atma Brother ONE on Jun 15, 2009 10:47 PM PDT
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PrintThis could quite possibly be the oddest rumor I've covered in my 4 year GSoM tenure.
In fact it's juicier than a stick of Juicy Fruit. [via blogs.asee.org]
Jump for the juiciness.
Quite possibly the hardest working sportswriter in the Bay Area Tim Kawakami of the Mercury's got all the details on his blog Talking Points- The Warriors' draft could decide Ellis' fate (or vice-versa).
A little background:
Over the last weeks of the regular season, Ellis, once again, expressed general dis-satisfaction with the direction of the franchise.
One question: Shouldn't the single biggest reason for the 2008-2009 WE SUCK campaign be the LAST person to be expressing "dis-satisfaction" right now? Pretty much everyone here amongst the Dubs faithful is more than a little dis-satisfied with Ellis' complete lack of defense the past 2 seasons, but you don't see us making a big deal out of it, do you? (Actually I lied.)
Also, leading up to the June 25 draft, Ellis apparently has not been thrilled to hear that the Warriors are eyeing the selection of one of the many point guards with their No. 7 overall selection, since Ellis wants to be the Warriors primary playmaker.
The overwhelming majority of Dubs Nation aren't too thrilled with Mo Moped Mo Problems, but you don't see us making a big deal out of it, do you? (Actually I lied.)
Man Moped Ellis is really rubbing off on me today.
All jokes aside:
One source indicates that Ellis came out of the Nelson/Riley meeting with the understanding that they would not draft a play-making guard to usurp Ellis' standing.
Actually I really hope that source was joking.
And of course what this all might mean:
I assume that Brandon Jennings, Ricky Rubio, Jrue Holiday, Jonny Flynn, Stephen Curry and Tyreke Evans would all fall into that promise-won't-draft category.
Make sure to read the rest of Tim's piece for a few possible outcomes from this.
So let's assume that all these sources are on point and have accurately conveyed what's really going on behind the scenes.
- My first question: Who does Monta Ellis think he is? Question 1b: Who does Monta Ellis think he is?
- My second question: Did Don Nelson and Larry Riley really hold a straight face when they told Monta they would not draft a player that would challenge his "superior" play-making abilities? Unlike Chris Mullin who oddly babied and coddled players like Mike Dunleavy (despite his poor attitude and play) and Ellis (despite his immaturity), these two guys seem like no-nonsense type of fellas. It's Nellie's way or the highway. I really doubt Nellie and Riley are going to bend over backwards and cater to Ellis' needs and demands as if he's some prima-dona. We're not talking about Kobe Bryant here. We're talking about a big question mark in terms of leadership and playing ability.
- My third question: Why is this franchise so dysfunctional? Monta Ellis hasn't exactly proven to be the most mature cat around. Don Nelson is a hoops genius, but even a Nellie apologist such as myself can't deny he's a drama queen. It still amazes me how Robert Rowell lucked into upper management of a half a billion dollar cooperation with his blatant lack of credentials. But I don't know if I can really pin this on any of them individually. By default I'm going to blame the evil guy behind the curtain. His first and last initials are "C".
For weeks we've heard that Ellis is no longer interested in playing for Golden State, and apparently it had reached a point where was "close to popping off" in the words of one NBA executive-meaning going to the media and publicly demanding a trade... One NBA executive we spoke with believes that Ellis was promised that the Warriors will not be picking a point guard with the #7 pick, and that he will be the one running the show for them next year. A number of agents seem to have heard similar things or just don't want to get anywhere near this situation, and both Jrue Holiday and Stephen Curry are currently refusing to work out for Golden State. The same goes for Ricky Rubio and Tyreke Evans... Regardless, look for the Warriors to heavily pursue bringing back Baron Davis this summer, and don't be surprised to see them do something unexpected on draft night.
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It begins.... I wonder if Cohan and Rowell smell an opportunity for salary protection.
Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!
by Nuck Chorris on Jun 15, 2009 10:57 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
this cannot be accurate. this would be so incredibly stupid if it were true, stupid on the part of everyone involved.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 15, 2009 11:03 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
If Monta is really going to be like that, then screw him.
The Warriors don’t need a damn drama queen on their team, especially one that’s a turnover prone undersized SG. He better not hold us back.
by Precise Films Productions on Jun 16, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions
99% of rumours are not true.
there is no need to get worked up over dis. The meeting that he had with Riley and Nelson was probably about they need him to and work on.
by Richboievans on Jun 16, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
everyone
who is a part of or who supports the warrior franchise is stupid
by cwebbisboss1 on Jun 16, 2009 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
gtfo queen
LeBron James? I'm the only Ty Crane.
by misterjennings on Jun 17, 2009 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Mount Montasuvius is rumbling!!!
Here we go fellas!!!
I have absolutely no idea what really happened, but either way I’m getting a sickening feeling in my stomach. If Ellis really voiced that, what does that say about him? I’d be up for any player that helps my chances. If the “Org” made that promise to Ellis then this is the stupidest franchise in history. If I were a player I wouldn’t want to come and play for this circus.
WOW I’m stunned by this. I hope TK is wrong on this one.
Then again this could be typical pre-draft baloney.
again TK was the one that said Ellis would never be in a Warriors jersey again after that MOPED accident
but if this IS true…who the hell does moped think he is?
We USED to Believe...
WE DEMAND IMPROVEMENT!
by RunNdGun on Jun 15, 2009 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: My first question: Who does Monta Ellis think he is?
A lot more essential to the Warriors plans than he actually is. Then again, this could be a smokescreen.
It still amazes me how Robert Rowell lucked into upper management of a half a billion dollar cooperation with his blatant lack of credentials.
Who you know always trumps what you know or how well you can do anything. Anybody who thinks life is a meritocracy is living a lie.
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jun 15, 2009 11:05 PM PDT reply actions
Anybody who thinks life is a meritocracy is living a lie.
i’ll drink to that. i like to drink when i’m sad.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Look on the birght side.
If you were dumb, you’d be delighted.
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jun 15, 2009 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions
if i were really dumb, i’d probably think that everyone earns everything they have and that i’m destined for great things, so i’d be upset that you would call into question the meritocracy that i have so much ill-advised hope for.
meritocracy or no, i’m aware that i have little to provide the professional world. academic/literary types rarely do. hooray for grad school!
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Re: i’m aware that i have little to provide the professional world. academic/literary types rarely do
You could write the next Great American Pamphlet.
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jun 16, 2009 7:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Mann hey atleast we get DEROZEN
monta
JACK
DEMUFFIN
ar
beans
Your a Jerk.
Your a Jerk.
Your a Jerk.
I know.
A number of agents seem to have heard similar things or just don’t want to get anywhere near this situation, and both Jrue Holiday and Stephen Curry are currently refusing to work out for Golden State. The same goes for Ricky Rubio and Tyreke Evans. Regardless, look for the Warriors to heavily pursue bringing back Baron Davis this summer, and don’t be surprised to see them do something unexpected on draft night.
FROM DRAFTEXPRESS
Your a Jerk.
Your a Jerk.
Your a Jerk.
I know.
Thanks
I updated the article with the DraftExpress report.
by Atma Brother ONE on Jun 15, 2009 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions
What should have been your fourth question:
- Is Kawakami completely wrong?
He simply has to be. Maybe the FO told Monta they weren’t going to draft a playmaking point guard with the intent to start him right away — I’d buy that. But there is no way in hell that they put together a “do not draft” list made up entirely of point guards, in what’s tabbed to be one of the deepest point guard drafts in NBA history (and an incredibly shallow draft at pretty much every other position). More cockamamy nonsense from the “hardest working sportswriter in the Bay Area”.
that’s the only thing that makes sense here. do i think that tk completely made this up? no, there’s probably at least some basis for this. do i think that he either didn’t get enough of the story or got some details wrong? almost certainly. there’s no reason to think that the warriors wouldn’t draft a point guard when (even if monta plays the point well) point guard the position where we have the least depth. if this meeting was nellie/rowell saying “we won’t draft a point guard and hand him the starting pg spot, you’ll get a chance to prove you can be our guy,” then no one should be upset and there would be no controversy. i hope that’s what happened, and it’s likely that the story is closer to that than to “we won’t draft a point guard under any circumstances.”
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
partial corroboration still leaves much to the discretion
of interpretation. if you’ve done graduate studies in lit you know the ins’n’outs of hermeneutics, maestro hack. kawakami will prefer the path of maximum provocation.
riley and nelson are no novices in placating diva egos, or in the poker game of pre-draft disinformation. they probably took that little excursion to preemptively de-ruffle the new father’s feathers, knowing that riley would be publicly expressing interest in point guards. in the face off between the diva and his agent across the poker table from the oldsters, there’s a pretty even split in the cards—ellis knows he has no basis to dictate riley’s decisions but he has $60m.+ guaranteed of the house’s money, whether he chooses to put the interests of the team first, or sulks like achilles in his tent, or plays hard while keeping a diva’s self absorption and detachment.
if character is destiny, there was too much fairy tale dixie dust (‘twas really dried up mississippi mud) in the hapless fans’ hopes, believing the retired sharpshooter would leave a legacy of a great young star; the flaws becoming more exposed in the current anointed one were probably there all along. fathers usually strive to give their sons an easier life than what they had, so on that essential level ellis has already fulfilled a life’s work.
+1
Can you just write all the fanposts from now on? This is way cooler than 90% of the crap that gets posted here.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
I only have a BA in English
So here is my interpretation: Kawakami’s a sellout, Riley and Nelson know what they’re doing, Ellis is rich.
:)
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Jun 16, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
with a b.a. in english
you can appreciate the date on givony’s article ‘word on the street june 16th’
I'm not smart enough
with only a BA in Engrish.
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Jun 16, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
It rhymes?
Am I digging myself a deeper hole? LOL
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Jun 16, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
it's a day in the life of a fictional character
place: dublin, ireland. it begins: “Stately, plump Buck Mulligan…..” once upon a time, the work was banned from the u.s. as pornographic, but now it’s usually required reading for english or world lit. majors.
finnegan's wake
is best read aloud but then you need someone who understands how it was meant to sound and mean—there’s a recording of joyce that’s serene and cosmic.
i've never heard his voice
have you heard any of pound on youtube? “with usurrra hath no man a house of good stone…”
pound reciting
his quasi-translations of classical chinese songs es magnifico, si. you undoubtedly know joyce sang tenor when he was young and has a much lighter voice. as an english lit guy you should try to make it to the british library in London, they have quite an archive of writers reading their own stuff, and just walking through those many old neighborhoods where so many of your ‘old friends and companions’ worked and drank—many of the pubs are still around—is a real treat.
amazing. i’m very happy this conversation is happening right now,, even though i’ve never been much of a joyce guy myself. this is a victory of some variety, though i’m not quite sure why.
i never saw the achives of writers reading their own work when i was at the british library, but now i’m devastated that i missed it. i might have to work london into my “reading in cool places” trip that i’m taking next year (i hope).
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
if the travel budget
doesn’t stretch to get to real civilization, portland or and seattle wa are pretty fair towns for bibliophiles—lousy weather encourages contemplative reading. the main public library in seattle is both beautiful and full of life.
should you make it to London, signore hack, St. Pancras is close-by to the british lib and opens direct access to Paris and the continent without plane travel.
quite a few fiction/lit fans at least here in the states find joyce contrived and artificial, and i think another barrier is how personal comedy, or what someone finds humorous, can be, while tragedy is perhaps more universal. there’s a particular kind of wit in joyce that leavens all the narrative devices and multidirectional allusions he weaves into his tales.
i’m actually going to be up in the pacific northwest in a couple weeks. i’ll be in olympia, but i haven’t spent much time in seattle and it’s certainly worth investigating more thoroughly.
the three stops on the trip that i had planned at this point were paris, vienna, and st. petersburg, but flying to london to start would not be out of the question. i don’t think i’d spend much time there; i lived in york for a while and found the cost and sheer size of london to be a bit overwhelming during my visits there. either way, another visit to the british library is definitely a good idea and considering i’ll be starting grad school (in philosophy, not lit) immediately after that trip i have no idea when i’d be able to get back.
you’re probably right about joyce. i never really thought of him as a comedic writer at all. fantastic with words and very skilled, but just not my cup of tea. that might be because i’ve only ever picked up “a portrait of the artist” and never got in to it enough to pick up any of his significantly longer works.
another barrier for me was something else you hinted at: i’m a tragedy guy. of my 5 favorite books, at least 4 of them can be described as tragedies and depending on your opinion of “the brothers karamazov” (the inspiration for my trip next year; i finished it by a swiss mountain lake and my life was never the same) it could be all 5.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
karamazov
is dark, dunkel ist das Leben/ ist der Tod (another quasi translation from classical chinese poetry)—changed my life too. read it when i was 16, and it set me on the road to perdition/nihilism/existentialism which i haven’t yet left.
one of the things that hooked me about ulysses, homer is possibly my favorite author of all and he might not even be an author. those greek tragedies about the house of atreus, and all the other works derived, freud, jung, get woven into that homeric tapestry and the whole is almost a collective memory for those of us educated in the ‘western tradition’.
congrats on your grad school appointment maestro hack, you can be re-named dottore hack and be mistaken for a surgeon a la the groucho character in ‘horsefeathers’. which fine academy is embracing you in its phyllo dept?
i’m applying this fall for 2010, so i’m still trying to figure out who will be graciously accepting me into their department. i’m likely applying to temple, brown, penn, CUNY, cincy, and a few others. i’ve got an aestheticism bent and love talking literature as it relates to philosophy. my senior thesis centered on “the unbearable lightness of being” as a piece of language philosophy and my last project focused on a slight reworking of mill’s utility theory that discussed “love in the time of cholera” and "the sorrows of young werther. i suppose that’s what adding creative writing to my degree did for me. lots of literary exposure.
i do sometimes wish i had applied for this fall, but this at least gives me a year to save some money and focus on fiction, both reading and writing.
where’s your literary knowledge come from? obsession, education, or occupation?
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
as an aesthete
you should probably visit and critically evaluate providence, r.i. and cinncinnatus before you commit—ny and phil are of course rich in beauties.
i’ve been cursed with the reading bug most of my life, fascinated with homer and the greek myths when very young. had one really fine lit teacher the year i turned seventeen but my education since has been spotty and erratic, with the national student strike against the war in s.e. asia coming in my second year as an undergrad.
best wishes on your career and thanks for your lucid writing here.
cheers.
final decisions will depend heavily on financial considerations, but naturally, location plays a large part (and actual quality of department, of course).
hopefully, a few people will see my lucid writing in print soon. i’m being published in west virginia’s undergrad phil journal and a fiction piece and a poem of mine might make it into an underground lit publication in the near future.
sounds like you had a fairly hectic collegiate career, but more importantly, it sounds like you made some good decisions based on it. all the best.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
what's yr favorite stuff?
mine: cummings, pound’s criticism, a confederacy of dunces, george herriman’s krazy kat. i’m exiled in fresno, but there is a terrific library downtown with francois villon, an extremely inappropriate translation of catullus, correspondence betw pound/joyce, and weird theoretical stuff by lazlo moholy nagy. old libraries are a sort of minor miracle
I just gotta chime in to say this is one of the best exchanges I’ve ever read on GSoM. I don’t do as much proper reading as I should these days — so many blogs, so little time! — but you guys brought back my heady undergrad days as a CompLit major.
I did read most of Ulysses a few years ago — for an M.A. in Architecure/Design History in did while living in London (Notting Hill, sweetest neighborhood I’ll ever live in, thanks Sleepy-ette and your investment banking career!) I kinda forget how it related to design history — or maybe I never knew — but I absolutely loved it. Language so rich and sensual you could practically chew on it.
In general left to my old devices, I’ll default to more prosaic mid-20th century romantic types: Waugh, Graham Greene, Salinger, Cheever, et al. Somehow even as a Gen X hippiekid, those guys always resonate with me. Also a huge fan of Krazy Kat, Peanuts, and Zippy the Pinhead. In his irreverence and dizzying breadth of vision, Bill Griffith may actually be the Joyce of our time…
Anyway, props guys.
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Jun 18, 2009 4:22 AM PDT up reply actions
This is where Riley should step in
Now that we have a GM that is able to do his job. It’s his role to clarify the situation and we should see that within a day or 2.
On a side note, I had a post last month on how unpredictability around the draft is the only sure factor when Nellie is involved. Here we go again…. Do you have any idea what they’re going to do on draft night?
Whether Riley clarifies the siutation to our satisfaction or not, we will still be left guessing on what really happened and what they will do on draft day.
Monta's point of view
Since the beginning of last offseason when Baron left, everyone has expected monta to take his spot as the team’s leader and playmaker. Here’s a reasonable conjecture why he could be a little upset:
Monta makes a mistake and tries to come back at the end of the season to fulfill what everyone’s been waiting for him to do but the front office/Nellie won’t let him play and to top it off, they got Crawford, a poor replacement for a passing point guard, filling up his spot. At the end it looks like Monta 1) can’t shoot consistently anymore, 2) can’t play PG, and 3) is an all around bad human being for letting everyone down. I know i’ve heard all of these opinions here where BM (before moped) nobody had anything bad to say baout him.
I would be pissed at the Warriors (and TK) too if their silly decisions up front were ruining my reputation and putting my career in jeopardy. Monta probably wants a chance to prove that he can play and make the team better. The kid’s worked too hard to earn his starting position to be replaced by Crawford the bricklayer or some rookie question mark. The front office 1) got rid of Baron, putting Monta in a real tough position. 2) took some of his money and threatened to take all of it (all the while saying something like ‘this is a business above all’). 3) didn’t let him really prove himself making him look like a failure.
Monta’s got drive. He wants to be an all-star. He wants to get back into the playoffs. CC and RR just want money. I wouldn’t want to work with those greedy bastards either. At the same time he’d have to be crazy on top of it to fulfill the scenario that kawakami is trying to paint. That’s just like him, get a piece of the truth and fill all the holes with exaggereated lies.
I know i’ve heard all of these opinions here where BM (before moped) nobody had anything bad to say baout him.
Rumor: Warriors Not Happy with Monta Ellis’ Maturity Level (Jun 27, 2007)
- Note the date
by Atma Brother ONE on Jun 16, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Not questioning Monta's maturity
I know he hasn’t acted very mature/professional/whatever but Monta is a very good basketball player. You didn’t even question that in your post whereas now everyone seems to be trying to replace him.
If he did want to get traded, which I highly doubt, it would be to show that he can play because all of a sudden everyone seems to doubt that he can.
I doubt Nellie/Riley would fly across the country to tell Monta “Hey, by the way, we’re NOT drafting a PG, just to make you happy.” Flying across the country for a meeting is a crisis prevention move, imo. I feel like a lot of the anti-TK bandwagon haters are all in denial. Discount any negative news by TK just because he has guts to provide information that many other reporters don’t. But be my guest, go ahead and dig a hole and put your face in it until the danger goes away.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
if monta was complaining about the possibility of drafting a point guard (certainly possible) and nellie and riley went to memphis to say, “stop whining, it’s still your job to lose; you’ll get your chance” that would qualify as a reason to talk to monta, but would be a long way from “oh, sorry monta. didn’t know you didn’t want competition for the pg spot (oddly enough, a role your critics say you never wanted to begin with). don’t worry about it. we won’t draft a point guard.” why would nellie and riley go to memphis to clue in monta about draft decisions when so much is still up in the air? that’s unbelievably stupid and something that i just don’t see happening.
it’s bad news that monta would complain about who we were working out to begin with, but to say that nellie and riley are now letting him call the shots when it comes to drafting seems absolutely insane.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
It's The Warriors we're talking about now...Nothing is too insane.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
i’d hope that even the warriors would be smart enough to figure out that if it comes down to letting monta make draft day decisions or dealing with an angry monta ellis, you deal with the angry monta ellis. if the situation worsens, you trade him, but you can’t agree to let monta ellis be your player/gm. no one is that stupid, right?
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
My best case scenario is to draft the BPA, regardless of what Monta does or does not want. If he wants a trade, promise to explore trades but keep it in house. Nobody wins if this becomes a public fiasco. If trading Monta is the best scenario, wait until the trade deadline when buyer’s (hopefully) are more desperate and Monta is back to 100%. Trading him now would probably get us .75 cents on the dollar.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
Quite a smokescreen
If Don Nelson says he won’t draft a point guard…
well, he’s probably going to draft a point guard.
"We Deserve"
this poll is dumb
you didnt give us the option that TK is the biggest ‘ri-tard’ in the bizz. STOP POSTING HIS JUNK!
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
This is unbelievable.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 15, 2009 11:46 PM PDT reply actions
please tell me
you mean its a load off junk….b/c need i remind you TK wrote this….ie dont worry
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
I don’t even know what to think. I just can’t wait for draft day so that at least some of the questions will be answered.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 15, 2009 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions
b/c need i remind you TK wrote this….ie dont worry
except Givony of DraftExpress is also reporting the same thing.
by the evil monkey on Jun 16, 2009 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions
I was going to mention that as well.
They’re citing an anonymous NBA executive as well. Not TK’s blog item.
Here’s the link: Link
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
probably
all from the same source….
i mean who do u think draft express goes to for news about the warriors? someone nationally or someone that follows the franchise…they probably just looked to see what TK was talkin about….or saw what tk was sayin
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
did you even read the draftexpress article?
they got it from NBA executives & player agents who had been hearing the same thing..
by the evil monkey on Jun 16, 2009 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Yet
All unnamed…
This is how I see it:
Some of the potential draft picks are not working out for the Warriors, maybe their agents called Nellie and Rowell and heard “It’s Monta’s job to lose, your guy isn’t going to get the chance to start right away.” Knowing that situation would hurt their clients’ potential for success, they’re advising their clients to look elsewhere. Humm… anonymous sources for a draft website, probably agents of people in the draft. It doesn’t surprise me in the slightest that Draftexpress is the other group reporting this story. Who’s agents does DE talk to? Why, agents of draft prospects, those very draft prospects that are not working out for the Warriors.
DE probably called Fegan (Rubio’s agent) and said “Hey, why isn’t Rubio working out for the Warriors? Is it because of your beef with them?” To which he replied “Heck no, they’re appeasing the no good Monta Ellis. They told me that they won’t draft a point guard to compete with him.” Now that is completely true, but it’s not the whole story and it’s colored very differently from the real situation:
Are they “appeasing” Monta? You could look at it like that, and you would if you’re the agent of a competing point guard when the Warriors’ actions are hurting your clients’ likelyhood of getting drafted early. Are the Warriors going to “not going to draft a point guard to compete with Monta?” They’re not drafting someone to compete with Monta for starters’ minutes, that doesn’t mean they won’t draft somebody at PG.
There is no doubt in my mind that the agents DE talked to are agents of potential draft picks that don’t like that the Warriors are not going to give them a shot at starting PG. They’re probably talking to the Knicks, Raptors, etc. saying “Word out of Golden State is that they’re not drafting a playmaker to compete with Monta Ellis.” And that’s where DE is getting their “anonymous NBA exec”.
It’s a non-starter for me until I hear it from a corroborating source that cites somebody on record. No, Tim Kawakami is NOT a corroborating source, he is a tabloid journalist.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 16, 2009 6:39 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
where there's smoke...
i’m not saying i 100% believe this, i’m saying you shouldn’t 100% write this off. it’s 50-50.
1. yeah, it’s TK – same guy who said Ellis would never suit up again for the W’s, but also the same guy who broke the Harrington trade demands (to which the same GSoMers were saying “but it’s TK!”
2. agents for players in drafts are also agents for players. players like Monta. when I 1st read the TK story, i thought it was odd – how would someone not named Monta, Nelson or Riley no what type of conversation took place? is someone badmouthing the W’s b/c of what they did to Mullin? like his buddy in NY, Donnie Walsh? or is the source an agent – or more precisely, is it Jeff Fried, Monta’s agent?
3. Jordan Hill claims to have received what he believes is a guarantee, it’s probably a Nellie smokescreen, but it could be a sign that they promised Monta not to pick a PG and explain Riley’s “beef” comments. the supposed interest in James Johnson falls under this same category.
4. it’s just bizarre that Nelson & Riley would fly out to Atlanta to congratulate Monta on being a father. is this something they do regularly & it’s just not reported?
5. it’s the Warriors. i’d say this is 50-50.
two other things mentioned by Givony, but not Kawakami:
i don’t know why Givony would say
it’s widely accepted at this point that incoming General Manager Larry Riley has one year at best to work enough magic in his team’s front office and roster to convince ownership to keep him around.i assume he heard this at the combine or the Oakland or Minny work outs which multiple teams attended. if true, that’s odd as well – only reason would be “Riley only has until Nellie retires to prove that he’s an adequate GM to Rowell.”
bringing back BD? really? maybe the exec is Mike Dunleavy Sr trying to screw the bay area for booing his son. TK probably was in LA before moving north so it’s not out of the realm of possibility that he’d have sources in Clipperland & Fakerland.
by the evil monkey on Jun 16, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
doh.
“know” not “no what type of conversation took place?”
“TK was in LA”, not “probably was”
by the evil monkey on Jun 16, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
i’m not saying i 100% believe this, i’m saying you shouldn’t 100% write this off. it’s 50-50.
I’m not writing it off. I’m saying “Yawn, come back when you have real corroborative evidence.” Right now, you have TK, DE, and unnamed sources from DE, that are likely competing for draft positioning.
1. yeah, it’s TK – same guy who said Ellis would never suit up again for the W’s, but also the same guy who broke the Harrington trade demands (to which the same GSoMers were saying "but it’s TK!"
You throw enough ish at the wall and eventually something’ll stick. And weren’t people talking about Harrington’s trade demands about 8 months before it happened?
2. agents for players in drafts are also agents for players.
Why would DraftExpress be talking to agents about players that are not in the Draft? Why would an agent of some random player be talking to DE about some other random player? It wouldn’t happen. They got this information from some agent/player who has some interest in where somebody in the upcoming draft is picked. People who have such a strong financial interest are liable to tell white lies, exaggerate things, etc. to make a buck. Again, show me corroborating evidence. Here’s what Chad Ford has to say (http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2009/6/16/911308/chad-ford-on-the-monta-ellis-rumor):
Chad Ford
I’ve heard a few rumblings that direction, but c’mon … are they really letting Monta Ellis draft for them … please. The Warriors will take whoever they think helps the team the most. I do think Nellie thinks Ellis can play some point, but it won’t stop them from taking a guy like Stephen Curry, for example, who can be a combo guy too. D
He works for ESPN, they love controversy. If there was ANYTHING to this, he’d be researching it and posting an article on how Monta Ellis might get traded to the Knicks or whatever sensationalist story he could come up with.
3. Jordan Hill claims to have received what he believes is a guarantee, it’s probably a Nellie smokescreen, but it could be a sign that they promised Monta not to pick a PG and explain Riley’s "beef" comments. the supposed interest in James Johnson falls under this same category.
I’m sure Nellie would also be giving guarantees to Griffen and Rubio. Hill is the second most NBA ready big man in the draft who’s expected to be gone well before the Wariors pick for some time. He’s a talented player who would be a good pick at #7. Nellie also talks out his you-know-what all the time.
4. it’s just bizarre that Nelson & Riley would fly out to Atlanta to congratulate Monta on being a father. is this something they do regularly & it’s just not reported?
Introduce the new GM to the star player who’s had trouble with management in the past, but after the birth of his child so that he’s not worried about “Is the baby due? Is the baby due? Is the baby due?” Let him focus on one thing at a time? Maybe?
5. it’s the Warriors. i’d say this is 50-50.
Seriously? It’s Tim Kawakami and internet journalism. Stop trying to build a mountain out of a molehill.
On the Gvony stuff, “it’s widely accepted” by whom? Givony himself? I can definitely see people saying “Well, Nellie’s only here one more year, Riley has to show what he can do to keep his job,” but that doesn’t make it a fact of life, nor does it have any bearing on whether or not we’re drafting a PG to appease Monta. Riley will be making that decision just like he otherwise would, for the success of the team THIS year.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 16, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Clearing up the TK hate.
1. He broke news about the KG trade on draft day 07’. That was again supported a few months ago by Steinmentz with many rumors bandied about in between that time.
2. Wrote about Al Harrington being unhappy with his situation and wanting a trade.
3. Broke the deal of Al Harrington for either Jamal Crawford or Malik Rose.
4. He also wrote about the Warriors interest in Ronny Turiaf before they signed him to his deal over the summer.
Sure he wrote that Monta would “never play in a warriors uniform again”. Was he wrong? Yes. That doesn’t mean that someone within the organization didn’t want to leak that perception of Monta’s unhappiness.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
Sure he wrote that Monta would "never play in a warriors uniform again". Was he wrong? Yes. That doesn’t mean that someone within the organization didn’t want to leak that perception of Monta’s unhappiness.
Maybe, just maybe, TK should get multiple sources for his stories (preferably from both sides of an issue) so that he doesn’t allow himself to simply be a pawn for anyone in the Warriors organization (or any other organization for that matter) who wants to start crap with somebody else. Maybe he should do some fact checking before writing sensationalist hogwash. Or maybe he’s just more concerned with writing sensationalist hogwash that may or may not be true in an effort to get clicks and make a buck on higher advertising revenues… which is the equivalent of tabloid journalism.
Is it OK to be wrong every now and then as a journalist? Absolutely, but when you make strong statements like “Monta will never play in a Warriors uniform again” without any real supporting evidence, you’re committing to the tabloid mantra: “I don’t care if it’s true, if it sells issues, put it in there.” And this instance, my friend, looks eerily similar to that.
This is not a: “The Warriors are actively pursuing trade proposals involving Monta Ellis because he’s expressed dissatisfaction with the direction the Warriors organization is taking. Here’s a quote from Riley…”
This is a: “Hey, Riley and Nelson went down to Mississippi, and some other guy’s agent is telling me that Monta doesn’t want the Warriors to draft a PG to compete with him, but I can’t tell you who my source is, and they’ve told some other GMs the same thing!” Which basically amounts to: “Somebody out there is saying stuff about Monta Ellis and the Warriors, and I’m gonna write about it because it’ll get Warriors fans to click on my story.”
We should really stop putting emphasis on who breaks a story. We should put some emphasis on who got the right story from the right people in the right way.
If Monta doesn’t want the Warriors to draft a PG, let’s hear it from him, not some draftee’s agent who is pissed that the Warriors wouldn’t give his guy a shot at a starting spot. If there really is an issue and Monta and the Warriors want to keep it a private matter, why shouldn’t we let them deal with it themselves instead of letting the talking heads make it seem bigger than it is, ask lots of questions, and eventually get one of the parties to say something they shouldn’t? Why are we putting up with this type of behavior from journalists?
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 16, 2009 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
We should really stop putting emphasis on who breaks a story. We should put some emphasis on who got the right story from the right people in the right way.
I agree. I just find it funny that just because TK reports something on his blog site, not even in the newspaper, people already assume that his info is crap. Perception is always selective and people are going to see things how they want to see them. I guess once a rat, always a rat.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
I just find it funny that just because TK reports something on his blog site, not even in the newspaper, people already assume that his info is crap.
Thats his own fault. Nobody would assume that if he hadn’t become a sensationalist tabloid reporter over the last few years. The National Enquirer broke the story about John Edwards’ mistress, but should we really be shocked that everyone dismissed it for 6 months because of the reputation of the Enquirer?
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 16, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well then through my selective perception, i don’t view Kawakami as a tabloid journalist. Sensationalist maybe, but he’s never way, way off base. At least imo, although i’m not a warrior optimist (as you may know already).
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
Sensationalist is what tabloids are
They find the most eye grabbing images and topics as long as somebody said them. TK, in recent times, has not gotten great sources or backup sources, or even sources with names. That, my friend is what tabloids are all about. Please explain the difference you see between the sensationalist writing TK has put out recently and tabloid journalism. He’s not to the " ‘I was abducted by aliens!!!’, story on page 11" extreme, but he’s definitely tabloidy.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 17, 2009 6:21 AM PDT up reply actions
In fairness to him, even if he has real sources you can’t expect him to name his source. Either the information isn’t supposd to come out and he names his source and the guy takes heat from the Warriors (possibly putting the sources job in jeoparty?), or the information is supposed to come out, he names his source in the Warriors organization and everyone realizes Nelson/Riley authorized the information to come out and it’s an obvious smokescreen.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 6:56 AM PDT up reply actions
I’d say it depends on how insane the story is. If TK comes out with a story how we’re landing LeBron and DWade in the summer i’d probably say GTFO, that’s not going to happen. I’m just saying none of his rumors on his blog have ever come from left field, and have all made sense in context. I’ve also pointed out what Missing Barry wrote below a coupe months back. I just don’t feel like repeating myself, it’s not worth it.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
If TK comes out with a story how we’re landing LeBron and DWade in the summer i’d probably say GTFO, that’s not going to happen.
If he wrote that, nobody would even bother clicking on his article to read it. Every lie you tell has to have some grain of truth to it if you want people to actually believe it.
This article comes out of short left field, but it’s still left field. Some of it is certainly based in reality, however TK and DE seem to be taking it to an extreme destination (i.e. Monta made demands and the Warriors are giving in), rather than the logical destination (i.e. Monta got worried about all this talk about the Warriors drafting a PG and the Warriors assured him that the starting PG role is still his to lose).
TK and DE are trying to build a mountain out of a what appears to be a molehill. Nothing to see here, move along.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 17, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Agree. I guess I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the worst case scenario as TK and DE seem to be taking it to. But at the same time I’m not getting bent out of shape if it did turn out to be nothing. The one thing that did surprise me though is that Nelson flew to Memphis to talk to Monta. Why couldn’t he just have called? We’ll probably never know.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
I'm guessing it might have had something to do with this
Rats, you’ll have to view it in non-nested to see it properly… or just search “memphis ribs” in google.
Well, that and rich people tend to do face to face meetings. What else was Nelson doing? He can drink on the plane, he can drink in Memphis.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 18, 2009 6:15 AM PDT up reply actions
since it’s being done w/ others & you’re clearly just going to dismiss it as readily as Fitz, i’m not going to argue the TK & DE stuff, but this i had to mention:
introduce the new GM to the star player who’s had trouble with management in the past, but after the birth of his child so that he’s not worried about "Is the baby due? Is the baby due? Is the baby due?" Let him focus on one thing at a time? Maybe?you do realize the new GM was the assistant coach and probably knows Monta fairly well…. he’s been upstairs for some time and has surely talked to Monta in practice as part of management. and why did Nellie go? this is something that usually happens via conference calls over the phone. the new Wolves GM didn’t fly out to see Al Jefferson even after the trade rumors. he called him.
Why would DraftExpress be talking to agents about players that are not in the Draft? Why would an agent of some random player be talking to DE about some other random player?so you’re saying Monta’s agent isn’t representing anyone in the draft. okay…
so the guy who talks to Riley is debunking this idea… and we should believe him b/c he’s part of ESPN & they love controversy… okay… that sounds like some Fitz logic… stuff like this is what he uses to debunk or ridicule anyone who thinks something is amiss in Warriorland.
btw, by 50-50 i don’t mean it’s 50% chance true, 50% chance false… i mean it’s halfway true, halfway false. the truth is somewhere in the middle.
by the evil monkey on Jun 19, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
yes i did
and everything is an unnamed source….IE NOT REAL
unnamed sources are always the biggest load of BS…
has TK ever said anything from an unnamed source that has turned out true? nope.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
False.
He’s hit on many Warriors rumors.
You guys just remember the one he got totally wrong.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
by kenntoe on Jun 16, 2009 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Its been more than one, but that one you’re referring to is a HUGE one and when you think you may have that kind of a sensational story you should try to get more than one source (I’m skeptical that he even had one) If he writes with more emphasis on his own notoriety than credibility why should we now assume any of his reports are credible?
Thing A
I guess what i’m trying to get at is that I don’t hang on to every one of his written words. He gets them wrong sometime, even the big one, but it happens. It’s rumors after all. A rumor is still a rumor even if it’s wrong. Do I get mad at him if they don’t turn out the way he’s calling it? No way. It’s interesting either way.
I’ll still continue to read his stuff, I have him bookmarked btw. I’m probably the only one going to be in his fan club, but that’s fine with me.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
He gets them wrong sometime, even the big one, but it happens.
It’s one thing to be wrong about who Al Harrington is going to be traded for. It’s another thing to be wrong about two groups being angry with each other when they actually might be, but really aren’t. You’re just fanning the flames. If TK’s writing ever causes Monta to distrust the management (something he’s been advocating since I can remember), then his actions have directly negatively effected my team, and I’m going to be pissed.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 17, 2009 6:28 AM PDT up reply actions
i'm in his fan club
you just have to sift through some of his BS to get useful info. Half of his crazy talk comes from his blog anyway.
Perception is reality…he’s creating a sh*tstorm for the Warriors, because we as fans can’t separate fact from fiction. The Warriors have earned ZERO credibility in my eyes when it comes to rifts in management, unhappy players, etc…but in this case, the pieces don’t fit, and like dfib said: “yawn”
On 5/7, the best part of waking is up LOLDGERS in my cup.
The Warriors should draft....NOBODY!!!!!!
this team doesn’t need youth, it needs experience. The W’s solution is not in this draft – it’s what their pick can gain them in a vet PG or PF.
We need more youth to go with…Monta, CJ, Buike, Morrow, AR, BW, AB, Bellinelli?!?!?!?
No draft pick – just bring in Bosh. Period.
Agree
We have enough youth as it is. We need a seasoned veteren to lead the team.
but
I still think we could use a solid PG to make plays. Monta just isn’t fit for the PG position.
Seriously Monta?
I barely saw him make plays at all during this season. Even CJ Watson made better plays. I say just let Monta play the 2 for all I care
by HellNoKrisO on Jun 16, 2009 12:42 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
C'mon Now...
Watson is garbage, I never saw CJ Watson go for 42, 9 and 9, and never will, did see Monta do it once, and he is capable of going for 40 again….however, what is going on in Monta’s little brain, I mean he makes Derek Rose look like Einstein.
Craziness!!!
And this Baron back to GSW stuff keeps coming up.
On draft day Monta’s BYC will still be in effect, meaning that his trade value (not contract value) will be around $5 mill, roughly that of the garunteed contract for the 1st or 2nd draft pick, right? So …
Monta Ellis + Corey Magette + 7th pick (Hill or any of the top PGs)
for
Blake Griffin + Baron Davis?
That’d be crazy, and maybe not all that unlikely.
That’s not the way BYC works.
His value in terms of the space it clears for us will be about 5.5mil. His price and cap hit to another team is the actual salary. The other team still has to send out that much cash. The trick is that they have to make 5.5 and 11 be within 125% of each other.
5.5 and 11 be within 125% of each other
Then they just need a Jedi… Any idea when Monta stops being a BYC player? The Wikipedia FAQ says “a few months”, the NBA FAQ doesn’t say anything…
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 16, 2009 7:01 AM PDT up reply actions
BYC ends a year after the contract is signed, in this case before the season but after the draft. Essentially, this means that they can trade him right now, though the deal cannot become official for a while. (e.g. They could swap picks with another team “just to swap picks” and then later trade the post BYC Monta for whatever made the cap numbers work as a “separate” trade, all of which would be done before training camps start.)
That's what I figured...
Weird that they don’t post that anywhere. Care to cite any of your references so we can use them too?
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 16, 2009 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Larry Coon’s CBA FAQ, item 73:
“A player remains a base year player for six months, or until June 30 [following the date the contract is signed], whichever comes later.”
Essentially, this means it lasts for the season following the start of the new contract. Since those cases where a player signs in a season are almost always vet min signees, the “6 months” provision almost never comes into play since vet min salaries don’t invoke BYC since they don’t qualify as big raises.
Thanks!
I’ll try to remember that reference.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 16, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks for clearing that up.
I knew it couldn’t be that easy. I saw somewhere though that Monta’s and Andris’s BYC expire July 1 so could a trade happen on draft day anyway and then be cleared a week later?
Quite possibly the hardest working sportswriter in the Bay Area Tim Kawakami
I had no idea that making up rumors qualified as hard work. Seriously AB what is it with you and Kawakami?
Thing A
Sam, you know i like Kawakami. I honestly don’t understand the mass hatred for him by this site. I think people “hate” him because he doesn’t do Warrior fluff pieces about how everything is great in Warrior-land. Sure he’s been wrong a couple times, but he’s never pulled a rumor out of left field. They’ve all made some amount of sense in context, yes even the “Monta will never play again blah blah blah”.
Seriously, by the sound of some posters you’d think TK stole their first newborn. Quit the Bitchassness people.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
I’ll tell you to check the fanshot section. Tell me the Randolph link isn’t a fluff piece.
But hey, I liked watching it too…
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
Pop one, then you might see.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
kenntoe
I’m well aware there are plenty of problems in the Warriors front office. I’m as frustrated with this franchise as just about any fan, I don’t want to read Bob Fitzgerald-ish fluff stories about how great everything is…..but Kawakami has sacrificed his credibility to chase some form of fame. He’s simply not what a reporter should be, and his perspective is actually just as biased as Fitzgerald’s and more harmful. I don’t hate Kawakami as a person, but I think his style of reporting is the sportswriting version of everything that is wrong with the media today. As DFiB said above, he focuses so much more on breaking the story than he does on getting the story correct. So many reporters strives to be the next Woodward or Bernstein without realizing that what was significant about what they did wasn’t so much breaking the story first, but that they spent the time to get it right.
Thing A
Finally a good argument!
No one else on here can give me a straight answer. I can agree with you on your statements. I guess it just doesn’t irk me as much. I like any amount of Warrior info I can get. He just so happens to write about them the most. I think at this time, he gets more notoriety than fame from his pieces, which really doesn’t bother him to be honest.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
yeah i read him too
but not to get facts. I just want to read about the Warriors or simply rumors about them. I could care less if they are true, partially true, or flat out false.
Just because it’s on the internet and from a “reporter” doesn’t mean it is true. I don’t get why many on here can’t just take what TK says with a grain of salt.
Whatever TK writes whether true or not, is not going to affect the Warriors players wanting to leave town or stay. And if it somehow does, then I wouldn’t want such a player on the team anyways.
LeBron James? I'm the only Ty Crane.
by misterjennings on Jun 17, 2009 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Only 9 days left...
If the Warriors pass up on that group of PGs @ 7 and pick a wing or big over them, then that means they are sticking with Monta at the 1, whether they promised him or not. If they pick a 1, then we’ll either see Monta request his trade or this was all fictional fun.
LeBron James? I'm the only Ty Crane.
Why do I continue to invest myself in this franchise?
It’s like one of those cycles of self loathing. I know it’s bad for me, yet I do it anyways…
AB1
I like how you’ve been reduced to not even mentioning TKs name on the front page because you know people will skip the article once they see his name. Now you’ve got your click. I hope you’re happy. Please stop giving TK a soap box. He is not good for the GSoM brand.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 16, 2009 6:40 AM PDT reply actions
Get rid of him
Farmar, Walton, Sasha and 29th pick for Moped Monta! Draft Flynn at 7 and the best availabe big at 29.
Farmar-Flynn
Buike-Morrow(Sasha)
Captain Jack-Maggette
Randolph-BWright (Walton)
Biedrins-Turiaf
Trade Crawford for a first pick or combine with 29th for a best available big! Marco and Kurz…extra players
Um, no. Unless you want our team to be the Warriors and not make the playoffs for 13 more years.
Oh…wait….
by Missing Barry on Jun 16, 2009 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions
uhhh
i would no longer be a warriors fan if we had sasha on our team….or even farmar
both are garbage
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
If we got Farmar, Walton, and Sasha I would throw up and have to stop rooting for the team til every single one of them was gone. Plus Farmar is not a very good basketball player.
Thing A
We'd be the Lakers-North.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
you guys are crazy..monta is one of the best scoring guards in the league…you keep him and randolph @ all cost……hell yeah you keep your best players happy, because hes proved he can score efficiently in this league
Monta is one of the best scoring guards in the league? Hmm. Maybe. He might become one of the best, but the window for “best” has to be pretty wide to include him. He was a very good scorer in his last full season, but I wouldn’t put him in the elite classification of those guys who get you a championship as your best player.
Further, defense is half the game.
Before you blame Monta
Take a step back, there is absolutely no way Monta made such request, it just doesn’t make sense, it’s not like his job is at stake and on top of that, we all know Monta prefers to play the 2 guard better. Monta isn’t nearly as selfish as TK is trying to make him sound like, he wants to win, he wants the Warriors to be in the playoffs, he wants to lead this team…..we can’t forever be mad at him for the mistake he made last summer. I think we should start a petition to have TK taken away his priviledges to write.
we all know Monta prefers to play the 2 guard better
Then why did he say he was playing the PG last year while Nelson said he was not?
there is absolutely no way Monta made such request, it just doesn’t make sense, it’s not like his job is at stake and on top of that
His job as the Warriors’ PG is at stake, which means his job is at stake because he’s too small to be a SG in the NBA.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 16, 2009 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions
His job as the Warriors’ PG is at stake, which means his job is at stake because he’s too small to be a SG in the NBA.
Not with Nellie as coach and not if we are able to get a big PG that can play defense (not through this draft, apparently).
Then why did he say he was playing the PG last year while Nelson said he was not?
Because he was being a “team player” and responding to doubts that he could play PG.
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Jun 16, 2009 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions
What he said
I don’t remember Monta saying he wanted to “run the team”. I honestly was under the impression that he would rather play 2, but it was Nellie that kept wanting to make him a 1.
Four letters that clear this up 100%
KNBR
Take a look – Razor & Mr. T had Larry Riley on the show very recently, and asked him STRAIGHT UP whether Monta had a problem with them drafting a point guard would be a problem, and he said it would be NO PROBLEM. You can listen to the interview online.
Later in the interview, Riley says he is looking primarily for a point guard in the draft.
Isn’t it obvious that draftexpress is just reporting on Tim K’s story? There’s no corroboration there.
Get it straight from the horse’s mouth: http://www.knbr.com/pages/razormrt
This is such a obviously ploy by Tim K. for blog site traffic it isn’t even funny.
by bleep on Jun 16, 2009 9:21 AM PDT reply actions 5 recs
Then Just Trade Him
If he is really going to be like this there is no point in having him on the team. We need to get a point guard in the draft of maybe make some crazy trade to get one. Orlando has two PGs right now and they will be shopping one of them!
After watching the Finals I could have sworn Orlando had no PG’s right now.
(Yes I know Jameer is good when he’s healthy)
by Missing Barry on Jun 16, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions
It was more a comment on how crappy Alston is rather than his position.
by Missing Barry on Jun 16, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
I love it, think of this...
After reading this stuff and listening to the Jackson Pod cast, I’m not surprised. We already knew Monta has resentment for the money they took for him. Now we know from Jackson (who I love because he has no filter) admitted that him and Monta talk A LOT about what our team needs. Jackson admitted again his frustration in the organization and he reiterated how he is still upset they traded J Rich and let Baron walk. He also said he thinks the team needs a big guy who can score and bang down low and that Ellis is capable of doing anything (when questioned whether he can play PG). So yea, this all makes sense to me.
I’m of the few that agree with Jackson. I think Ellis can play PG and I think we need a big guy who can score with his back to the basket, play defense, and grab rebounds.
For some reason very few think that Monta should be offended by drafting a PG. I think he should. It undermines the confidence in him to do the job. Doesn’t anyone think, maybe Monta knows that playing with another 6-3 or less guy will kill them defensively? I mean, damn, he’s been playing with Watson (please don’t try to tell me how better a rookie pg will be than Watson).
I’ll bet Monta and Jack on the same page here. I’ll bet that they too agree with me, that we need length, defense, and rebounding, above a distributor and adding a pg next to Monta will only magnify the problems we already have.
Say what you want about either Jackson or Monta but I see two guys trying to push their organization. Maybe it is in a Kobe type way but if it gets results than, so what? If it doesn’t, I can’t blame them for not wanting to play for the Warriors.
Anyone think Maybe Monta doesn’t live in ATL and their going to talk to Josh Smith?
For some reason very few think that Monta should be offended by drafting a PG. I think he should. It undermines the confidence in him to do the job.
You’re right. Monta knows that we don’t need a back up point. He and Jax will be on the floor for 48 minutes a night for 102 games. Besides, if we drafted somebody, that means we’re going to keep them and make them a starter, we’d never trade anyone.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 16, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
This is exactly what I want to hear from Monta
Monta’s biggest obstacle to becoming a PG was his desire to become one. He just needed to decide to become a playmaker. He is young enough to where he can begin dedicating his career to playmaking. He already is an excellent scorer, if he dedicates himself to working on defense and playmaking, he will be one of the best guards in the league.
I really, really doubt Monta is really trippin about them drafting a PG. Everyone knows this is a weak draft, no PG we draft would challenge Monta at the PG spot. If Nellie has decided to play him at the PG, which he has, there is no one we could draft that is better than Monta. In order to take the starting job from Monta they would need to be better than Monta. That guard is not in this draft.
Monta Ellis Pg of the Golden State Warriors for the next 5 seasons, the basketball gods have blessed us.
no one has said this and it’s just my own speculation, but it could also be that Monta just doesn’t want to have to guard SGs… which might be the case if smaller guys like Jennings or Flynn or Lawson or Curry were to be selected (& eventually find their way into minutes alongside Monta somewhere down the road).
by the evil monkey on Jun 16, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Monta’s biggest obstacle to becoming a PG was his desire to become one.
You misspelled:
“Monta’s biggest obstacle to becoming a PG is his lack of the court vision and ball handling skills to become one.”
by jae on Jun 16, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can’t really say I know what you’re talking about. Monta has not shown a defeciency in ball handling or court vision. His court vision was only limited because he was always looking to score. Is he going to be Nash or Kidd? hell no! Can he be like Iverson? Hell yes!! I actually think Monta can be a better PG than AI, he has the same scoring ability, he’s a little bit bigger, plus he put up a 39 9 9 game against the best pg in the league. At this age AI was fresh off his rookie season. The experience Monta has had, including playing with BD should help him to become a better PG.
I personally believe in Monta’s ability to transition to the point. Not to mention the fact that are system and team are the easiest to be a PG for. Didnt Ronny have 11 assists in a game last year? Our problem is not offense. It is Defense. That’s where we suck. Putting Jack and Azubuike on the floor should improve that. I know Monta is a better defender than Jamal or CJ. Also having Monta back takes the pressure off of Jack, he can go back to being a complementary player, which will allow him to focus on D. So just by having our starting 5 healthy for the majority of the season we should greatly improve on D.
Baron’s best year with the Warriors (the best of his career) he averaged 7.6 assists 2.8 turnovers 2.3 steals 21.8 ppg. I really don’t believe Monta will have trouble getting those stats. His assists may be a little lower, not much, his TO’s may go up, not much, but his scoring will probably be an improvement on Baron’s.
I just don’t see any reason to worry about Monta becoming a very good PG in this league.
Can you pass the Kool-Aid please?
by Missing Barry on Jun 16, 2009 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Kawakami is Trash
What a waste of time anyone who actually believes him needs their head examined. For one the Warriors do need a point guard, but in reality they need a big man who can rebound or an extremely athletic defender.
The Warriors already have a fine backup point guard in C.J. Watson who played well at the end of last year.
Even if the two best players on the team Jackson and Ellis are not happy with the way the franchise is going, don’t you think it would be wise for them too take a look at why they are unhappy and see what they can do to make it better for them?
So, do the Warriors draft a point guard like Brandon Jennings (they don’t need him, he has maturity issues), Ricky Rubio isn’t falling to number seven, Stephen Curry isn’t really a point guard in the first place, Tryeke Evans another tweener, etc…..
Even in the draft there’s really not much avaliable in terms of point guards who are actually going to make the Warriors better. So, this leaves it too the Warriors to draft someone to help out on the boards, how many times were the Warriors big men not capable of grabbing a big defensive rebound because they tried for a blocked shot or got pushed out of the way?
This is why the Warriors need to go after a big body someone like Dejuan Blair who can come off the bench and get those rebounds because he has an extremely big body and can get those tough rebounds.
We still need a backup PG. Watson is garbage.
by Missing Barry on Jun 16, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
The Warriors already have a fine backup point guard in C.J. Watson who played well at the end of last year.
The Warriors do not currently have C.J. under contract for next season. He is a restricted FA where the Warriors have matching rights and there’s a limit to what other teams can offer, but it’s not a given that he’s coming back.
If this is true,
hopefully not, but if it is true;
Who does Monta really think he is? Demands this, demands that. Yes he’s our main star ‘Franchise’ player that got the long term deal, and he’s suppose to be a leader.
But for all those Monta homers, how can you like his attitude even before hearing this.
One question for everybody,
Do you think ANY “Play Making” Point Guard would be More Talanted than Monta in a couple years? Brandon Jennings? Maybe, both cocky and athletic. Johnny Flynn, undersized, Jeff Teague? also Maybe.
But ,wouldn’t you rather have some “Play Making PG” that is more mature and provides more leadership and good vibes to the Team next year than a the bad attitude kid with the tattoos. I personally wouldn’t mind if any PG in the draft can be more productive than Monta next season.
Productive as in good attitude, defense, leadership, etc May be asking too much just from a rookie but look at Derrick Rose, He was a rookie when Monta was in his 3rd year in the league(Correct me if I’m wrong) and I believe Derrick Rose is a far more better overall player than Monta is. – Both athletic, young, talented, and valuable.
-Of course Derrick Rose has a higher vertical than Monta, even ignoring that, Derrick Rose is a far better leader than Monta is now.
I know Monta still can change himself to be better, but we’ll see next season.( That is if he’s still in a Warriors uniform)
So main question, can any PG in this years draft be “Better”(as in Derrick Rose IMPACT of better) than Monta Ellis? ex; Jeff Teague, Johnny Flynn, B.Jennings, Rick Rubio?etc
I AM a fan of Monta, he is a fun player to watch, but wouldn’t you rather win more games than just that? Even though I like Monta’s game, I have to say
Monta Ellis < Derrick Rose
7
who cares
is there any other team who keeps fans this interested in the off season? I love the drama our disturbed franchise creates.
We all know the front office will do something to screw up our playoff chances anyway, so I am just loving all this interesting behind the scenes BS
by warriorsvictim on Jun 16, 2009 10:53 AM PDT reply actions
+1
Agreed. We ain’t making the playoffs anyways, and hopefully no playoffs for the next 3 years so we can see Robert Rowell get fired! So why not stir up some drama so we’re all excited about the team? I mean, its all about the entertainment value, right?
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
by JustSomeName on Jun 16, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
If Monta is so confident in his abilities, why should he even be worried that we’ll draft a pass first PG? He should know that a rookie cannot take over his spot so easily especially playing under Nellie. He should try and show some leadership and take the rookie under his wing and help him develop as a professional player and make this team even more unstoppable.
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
Like they say in pick-up games...
Monta should just “SHUT UP AND PLAY.”
OHHH, and I forgot to say,
I hope “SOMETHING UNEXPECTED” doesn’t actually mean something mind-boggling, assinine, and a big downer like picking Todd Fuller, Vonteego Cummings, etc. etc. in times past.
atma
stop posting stuff from unnamed sources….
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Wow when did Monta Ellis get such a bad attitude
shouldn’t he not complain and just go with it.
If worse comes to worse how bout we trade Ellis and 7th pick for Kevin Martin and the 4th pick for RUbio.
+1
I doubt the Kings would do that though….
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
by JustSomeName on Jun 16, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
why are u listening to this garbage rumor
by unnamed sources….
its obv TK is just posting garbage to get more people to read his gaaaarrbageee
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Dont read too much into this
i bet monta just said dont worry about the point guard situation, i can do it, or like ive been working on it.
dont believe anything these fools try and write. I think there just overhyping the whole thing.
i feel like where drafting a 2, or 3 though
I guess we’’ll find out in 9 days…
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
by JustSomeName on Jun 16, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
monta, monta, monta...
i hope this really isnt true.. TK is a decent writer and ok on the chronicle but a sensationalist!! trying to evoke any and all emotions (faking sources, exaggerating details? who knows). i know monta can and will be a very productive TWO guard in the NBA. look no further than allen iverson. Both are lightning quick and can get to the hoop while stroking (in hot and cold streaks) from outside the key while being undersized twos. AI did have lots of steals, but he gambled A LOT. which made way to easy buckets for the other team(Probably the main reason why billups was traded for).
Another TK Article for you all to love.
Does Anyone Want To Play For The Warriors?
–The league-wide alienation of the Warriors seems to be happening even faster than Chris Mullin could’ve imagined, but I guarantee you, he’s the one who saw it coming clearest.
This is what Mullin feared when team president/colussus Robert Rowell was so adamant and so public about punishing Monta Ellis over the scooter accident, and lies, last summer.
This is what Mullin feared when Rowell vetoed Mullin’s tentative contract extension with Baron Davis last summer, and when Rowell wanted to substitute a non-guaranteed year and let his radio voice claim it was the same deal as offered by Mullin. Even though it wasn’t.
This is what Mullin feared when Rowell personally negotiated, over Mullin’s objections, lavish new contract extensions for Stephen Jackson (after Jackson fired his agent) and Don Nelson (who is not beloved around the league, which, I know, is shocking to many in the Bay Area).
This is what Mullin feared when the supra-empowered Nelson began to interject himself into all personnel decisions and when Mullin was ejected from power, which allowed Nelson to bully Al Harrington, Jamal Crawford, Anthony Randolph and Marcus Williams.
The aggregate result of those events and many others: In less than a year, the Warriors have gone from a team perceived as player-friendly to a franchise wasteland, run by the whims of an eccentric 69-year-old coach and a power-mad money man.
Yep, right back to the late-90s, early ’00s (Danny Fortson! Bobby Sura! Nobody who was any good having anything to do with the Warriors!), and what a bountiful joy that was in Warriorsland.
What high-talent player wants to invest himself emotionally in a coach who just wants his money and 24 more career victories or a team president who runs the franchise like it’s his personal PR shop?
Sure, there will always be players who will come to the Warriors–for an inflated price or, if they’re drafted, to serve their time and then move on when they can.
But the alienation is a bad thing: You don’t want players to feel like mercenaries, and that’s what the best Warriors players are feeling like now.
And the league’s best players–the ones with choices–will always avoid the wasteland franchises, as they avoided the Warriors from about 1994 (Webber blow-up) to 2004 (Baron acquired).
Back to alienation, looks like.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
And why would we want to ckick on that link?
just to give you, (sorry I mean TK) more internet traffic?
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
Ridiculous
I don’t understand what the Warriors are doing here. Basically, they’re trying to promise things that is easily not the best thing to do. It’s as if we’re trying to actually reconcile the relationship we already have with Ellis.
Hence, Nelson and Riley are cleaning up after Rowell.
Now, I wonder if this whole “play-making guard” deal might actually force the Warriors to trade down and take a combo-guard instead of a pure point. Problem is… those combo guards like Tyreke Evans, Derozan, Stephen Curry are all declining work-outs or have “agent” issues according to Kawakami right now.
We really need a pure point. Plain and simple. If someone like Baron (yes I still believe in him) or Andre Miller (for cheap) can give us something like this, then we’ll have a shot next year at competing for a playoff spot. But we have WAYYY too many SHOOTING guards at this point.
All the intrigue is leading me more and more to believe that the Warriors could be pulling a silent blockbuster or seriously changing the team up (a trade down for more picks or trading young players for established veterans).
Regardless of the matter, I still like Brandon Jennings’ swagger. And his talk about him and Monta in the backcourt should only get Monta excited… NOT defensive. So interesting, yet… so Warriors.
Golden State Warriors fan since 1984. The Filipino sensation!
The loudest Warrior fan in Section 208, Row DS, Seats 15-16.
yo ray
I don’t know how often SJSU Washington Square publishes magazines but your name caught my eye when I was looking through the Summer 2009 issue (with Ernie Reyes Sr. on the front). There’s a short little section about what you majored in and where you’re currently working. It was funny and cool to see a GSOM dude in there hah.
This is Kristin Kreuk, now zip it. - GTTM
Disguy
Haha – thanks! but yeah I don’t read that stuff either, but I did see it when a friend brought it to my attention. I didn’t even give them that information etc. Somebody probably remembered seeing my name somewhere and plopped it on there.
But, it isn’t killing me for people knowing where I work. Google will tell you that haha.
I should’ve told SJSU that I was VP of Player Personnel or something like that of the Warriors… they could’ve believed me. :-)
Golden State Warriors fan since 1984. The Filipino sensation!
The loudest Warrior fan in Section 208, Row DS, Seats 15-16.
Next season...
Stop by my seats and say hi. Usually when GSoM guys stop by and say hi we win… and we yell chants that go all around the arena (Ref U Suck was my favorite with BritWarriorGSW). Always nice to see all of you. The dubs will need us BIG time next season.
Golden State Warriors fan since 1984. The Filipino sensation!
The loudest Warrior fan in Section 208, Row DS, Seats 15-16.
Oh definitely
I’ll come through next season. I only go to about 4-5 games a year though.
Oh weird, thought you did give that info to them. I figured it was some kind of process they do for alumni. Maybe they did use google to get it. They google alumni to see which ones have a job lol.
This is Kristin Kreuk, now zip it. - GTTM
I have a hard time believing monta demanded ANYTHING
considering how much he screwed up last season. He needs to be on a mission this year.
didn’t we also see articles that he doesn’t want to play PG? I think he’s indifferent as long as he plays alot
From Draft Express: “General Manager Larry Riley and head coach Don Nelson reportedly flew to Atlanta to meet with Ellis this week,”
This was posted on Tuesday and I know for a fact Nelson was in Oakland on Monday night, out to eat. “this week” and “flew” meant he was either already there or he made a really really quick trip.
Isn't Tim Kawakami the same guy who said Monta Was Unhappy last year?
Kawakami also stated that Ellis wasn’t happy being a Warrior. When Monta clearly was happy to be one and stated this. The guy should have been fired long ago he just wants to fuel wild speculations that have no merit.
I’m not a TK hater, he may very well be right. Most the’s pros’ just tell the media what they are “supposed” to and say completely different things to thier friends. Remember the whole BD meeting with Jax and how all they talked about was getting him back and how BD really wanted to come back to the warrriors. After Jackson broke the story to the media Baron completely denied the whole conversations……duh. Of course he did.
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