RUMOR: Jrue Holiday won't work out with Warriors because of agent Dan Fegan
by Atma Brother ONE on Jun 17, 2009 9:56 AM PDT
in Rumors
173 comments
Not a Warriors fan. [via www.danfegan.com]
Jump for mo' drama in Dubs land.
Scott Howard-Cooper writes [SI.com]:
Power agent Dan Fegan may influence the draft in ways other than trying to steer Ricky Rubio away from Memphis. Fegan and his distaste for the Warriors -- he didn't like how client Al Harrington was treated there, doesn't like the way Don Nelson handles young players, didn't like the way Chris Mullin was fired as personnel boss, and definitely didn't like the sense that being dumped by Stephen Jackson was a condition of Jackson getting an extension -- has reached to Jrue Holiday refusing a workout. The snub is particularly obvious because mid-lottery (the Warriors pick seventh) is a realistic range for Holiday and he is a logical Golden State candidate as a big point guard to play alongside small shooting guard Monta Ellis. But Phoenix at No. 14 got a predraft visit and, barring a change of plans, the Warriors will not. "My agent isn't setting anything up there," Holiday said.
I've been a harsh critic of the Chris Cohan/ Robert Rowell regime way before it was popular to question their every move and decision, but I"m not really sure where Fegan is coming from here. Al Harrington and Don Nelson did have some silly drama and I'm a fan of both, but let's not distort things and make it out to be all Nellie's fault. Harrington straight up quit on this team and his teammates with a "back injury" that magically healed the second he was traded to the New York Knicks. I can't say he really improved his game over his 2 seasons here either.
Don Nelson handles young players just fine- if they're good and working hard (witness Anthony Randolph's amazing work ethic not too long after it was reported that Rob Kurz was beating him out in every way and his thoughts about the earlier battles with Nellie) they'll play. If not, say hello to the pine- which is exactly where they should be. The rookie seasons of Chris Webber, Tim Hardaway, Mitch Richmond, Billy Owens, Josh Howard, and Marquis Daniels should put this nonsense about how Nellie doesn't play young players to rest.
I'm not really sure why folks are still upset at how Mullin was fired here. Plain and simple- overall he didn't do a good job as the Warriors GM. At best he was just a nice guy who was way in over his head. His professionalism is handling Moped Gate is really questionable. If it was so bad this past season, he easily could have resigned from his duties. But he didn't. He collected paychecks and according to players and other sources didn't show up to work that often. The major point here is that why should Jrue Holiday or any other potential 2009 draftee care about this past situation? If their agent is going to cost them hundreds of thousands because of this, it's probably time for them to find a new agent who isn't putting his personal vendettas before the well-being of his clients.
I find it hilarious how Stephen Jackson had to dump Fegan to get that extension. Fegan's former client did just fine (better than he should have) without his power broker. Jack ditched Fegan and has seen plenty of greener pastures. If anything I think this is what's driving the manipulation of Holiday by Fegan. Jack and the Warriors undermined his power and image as a power broker. Jackson didn't need Fegan one bit.
There's a lot of distaste in the media and amongst fans for agents, but I usually don't share those sentiments. Agents are the ones who are looking out for their clients, the individuals who make the NBA and other sports leagues interesting. In this particular case with Holiday however, I really question if Fegan is looking out for the best interests of his client.
Also see from Talking Points:
- Does anybody want to play for the Warriors?- I think Tim is giving Chris Mullin way too much credit (see The Mullin Myths: Chris Mullin made the Warriors a franchise players wanted to join), but it's still an interesting read if anything else.
- Will Jrue Holiday work out for the Warriors? Something to monitor- Tim was right. It was something to monitor.
- Ricky Rubio, his agent, and the Warriors' lottery luck
More about Dan Fegan:
2 recs |
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Better then Scot Boras
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or Tyreke Evans. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Conductor of the We're Back Warrior Movement!
by ejdacanay on Jun 17, 2009 10:03 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
at least Boras has his clients’ best interests at heart.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 17, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, if you don’t think Fegan does, you probably won’t think Boras does, either. He does some questionable things, at times.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
example?
does he ever limit their opportunities because of a personal vendetta against a team?
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 17, 2009 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Easiest example is stuff he does with draft clients. He has this thing where he needs to get one of his clients the biggest bonus each y ear. Last year, he got all his players signed contracts, thought he got the biggest bonus, but turns out Giants draft pick (non-Boras signee) Buster Posey got the biggest bonus right at the deadline. Boras was pissed, so he tried to Pedro Alvarez’s contract to renegotiate it for more money on the basis that it was actually signed a few minutes after the deadline. It went to court and Alvarez was held out of a month of extended spring training or wherever he would have been playing. Not that bad since he was trying to get Alvarez more money, but reflected poorly on Alvarez. The bad part is it screwed over another one of his clients, Eric Hosmer, who also signed his contract moments after the deadline. He got caught up in the legal battle and wasn’t able to participate in baseball activities for the Royals that season.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
?
Do you really think thats even close to the same thing? I’m sure all of Boras’ clients are now SO upset that he keeps trying to get them the biggest bonus every year, talk about not doing right by your clients.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 17, 2009 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah I wasn’t trying to say it’s the same thing, just that he does things like that where it doesn’t seem like he necessarily has his players best intentions in mind. Both his clients ended up screwed – Hosmer didn’t even want a new contract, he just wanted to get in camp and couldn’t because of the Alvarrez thing, and Alvarez ended up getting no more money and not getting any of the baseball activity he should have, and now Pirates fans don’t like him for the whole ordeal. The way it worked it looked very much like Boras did it because his client didn’t get the biggest bonus (for bonus’ around $6 mil we’re talking about a $100,000 difference he was going for), and he wanted it solely so he could tell prospective clients next year his guy got the biggest bonus.
Another one of his clients didn’t sign and went to independent ball for a year. He got drafted around the same place this year, we’ll see if he gets anymore money. We’ll see what happens with Strasburg this year, too, Boras wants to blow the system up, which is fine, but if gets Strasburg not to sign a contract that’s a HUGE mistake on Strasburg’s part.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think you can say Boras didn’t have his players’ best interests in mind. Do you really think he foresaw a legal battle that would keep both out of all baseball activities for half a season. I sincerely doubt many Pirates fans are really gonna hold it against Alvarez as long as he starts hitting like he was projected to. Sure Boras wants to be able to say he got his guys the biggest bonus every single year, but thats a byproduct of looking out for your clients, not letting a personal vendetta influence what you decide is best for the player. Part of Boras’ job is to get the most money he can for his players. Maybe he made a mistake with the Alavarez situation but he was still just doing his job. Its pretty clear to me that thats not what Fegan is doing.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 17, 2009 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boras started the legal battle quite purposefully, and absolutely knew it was going to drag out. He uses his clients to try to break down barriers. I’m actually a Boras fan, I think the system screws players and he tries to correct it, but I will acknowledge he uses some low tactics himself. Often times I think it could easily be interpreted that what he’s doing, while good for the collective group and future players, is not necessarily good for the individual breaking barriers. The whole Hosmer/Alvarez situation also highlights times where there are conflicts of interest, and certainly Hosmer ended up on the wrong side of that one.
To go back to the original point, though, I will stand by the fact that someone who thinks Fegan doesn’t have his clients best interests in mind will also think Boras doesn’t have his clients best interests in mind.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you really think that Boras would be stupid enough to allow his own personal differences with a team to interfere with or limit the options of his clients?
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 17, 2009 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
If he really likes power, he would do that. If he also thinks it’ll influence other teams to “play nice with him,” gaining valuable negotiating leverage in the future and thus more money for his clients, then he would do it.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 18, 2009 5:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, I never made that claim. My claim is some people think Boras doesn’t always act in his clients best interest.
by Missing Barry on Jun 18, 2009 6:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Landon Powell and JD Drew are a couple more amateurs Boras unsuccessfully tried to use to break down the rules of the draft process. Didn’t work out for either of them.
Boras did succeed with a group of 4 players in getting them out of their draft positions and into free agency, though, and they were offered way more money than the draft process would have gotten them, more or less proving the draft artificially deflates players worth.
He’s done good and bad, but there are enough examples to figure out why people question his motives at times. Not saying you have to agree, just understand where the other viewpoint is coming from.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh and the Nationals need Strasburg a lot more than Strasburg needs the Nationals
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 17, 2009 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but Strasburg will have to reenter the draft after risking injury for a year, at which point he’ll have 0 leverage because what, is he going to delay entering the majors another year? It also puts off free agency for a year if you look at long term (and he’s successful). There is no situation where Strasburg benefits from not signing.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he goes to a bigger market team with a larger payroll and better farm system, wins more games and earns more money when he does enter free agency? ….and he doesn’t have to spend the first third of his career in Washington, that’s a win by itself. I’m pretty confident he’ll sign this year for a ridiculous amount of money, the Nationals simply can’t afford that kind of embarrassment to top off what has already been an awful year.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 17, 2009 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Nats are on pace to end up with the #1 pick again. And they won’t sign Strasburg so they’ll have the #2 pick too. He loses. :)
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he can choose to not allow them to pick him again.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 17, 2009 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So the next crappiest franchise in baseball selects him, and he’s still out of leverage in the negotiations since he’s already waited a year to get paid, and delayed the whole arbitration/free agent process a year. Not signing = very bad for Strasburg.
by Missing Barry on Jun 18, 2009 6:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
there’s a pretty big dropoff to the next crappiest franchise…..right now it looks like it could be Cleveland, Arizona or Oakland that wind up with that next pick. Can we agree that those would all be much, much better options than playing Washington? Plus the team that picks him next year would know his contract expectations and not pick him if they weren’t planning on coming close to that. Not signing would be bad for him, but not nearly as bad as it would be for Washington. Boras knows this, he’ll sign on the deadline day breaking the record for largest signing bonus by a large margin.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 18, 2009 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Not signing would be bad for him, but not nearly as bad as it would be for Washington. Boras knows this, he’ll sign on the deadline day breaking the record for largest signing bonus by a large margin.”
Not signing is very bad for both parties, and Strasburg will definitely get a good offer from the Nats, definitely a lot more than Prior got (so maybe $15-$20 mil?). Turning that down in search of $40-$50 mil, though, would be terrible for Strasburg and there’s no way he’d have the leverage a year later to get more than the Nats offered (assuming they offer him ~$15-$20 mil). So he’d take a huge risk, end up losing up to a year of MLB service time, and get a similar signing bonus. If you think not playing for the Nats is worth that….well then, I have nothing to say, I would just find that funny.
by Missing Barry on Jun 18, 2009 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think asking for 40-50 mil for a guy who has never thrown a professional pitch is just crazy talk… if Boras truly expects that then it will probably change my view of him a lot.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 22, 2009 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Golden State's a lousy fit for Holiday anyway.
If he didn’t do well playing a combo 2-guard at UCLA, why would he do well in that role alongside Monta?
This Week on Golden State: Monta the Monster @ www.soulhonky.com
by SoulHonky on Jun 17, 2009 10:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
thanks for getting me banned....temporarily
your post is un-informed.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawk on Jun 18, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Explain to me why.
He struggled when he was forced to play off ball at UCLA. He would likely be in a similar position in Golden State since Monta needs the ball to be most effective. If playing a combo guard type position and not being the main PG was a problem in college, how would it get better in the pros?
My Open Letter to John Hollinger @ www.soulhonky.com
by SoulHonky on Jun 18, 2009 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
everything I MEAN EVERYTHING
points to him playing a point guard in the nba.
if he came to the dubs he would play backup point his first year…if he even plays at all
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawk on Jun 18, 2009 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So like I said, Golden State is a lousy fit.
Unless you move Ellis or think he’s going to become more of an off-ball shooting guard, this is not an ideal situation for Jrue.
My Open Letter to John Hollinger @ www.soulhonky.com
by SoulHonky on Jun 18, 2009 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ellis has always been a SG
he is trying to become a PG….its a gamble to see if he will end up one (one i actually think he will succeed at) BUT it would be nice to have a backup plan and that would be to have holiday, who is more likely than any other PG in the draft to be able to play along side monta successfully.
not to mension, there is no way holiday, or anyone else will be starting if we draft em anyways and our roster is healthy under nelly. might as well have a good backup plan if ellis ends up playin SG again the next season
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawk on Jun 19, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great writeup
weird stuff – I personally find Jrue Holiday a very interesting prospect for the Warriors. this isn’t good for us
by Neon on Jun 17, 2009 10:25 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well this is interesting
And is it just me, or is this sort of dealing seemingly happening more often this offseason?
Blogging at RidiculousUpside, where we converse with recently fired mascots.
by Scott Schroeder on Jun 17, 2009 10:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
ummmm
Care to reference any other similar dealings?
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 17, 2009 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i know curry refused to work out for the wolves, and i feel like there are one or two more instances like that, but i could be wrong.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 17, 2009 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m under the impression Curry is trying to land in New York.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that’s the angle i’ve heard. i’m not sure that his cancelling a workout isn’t just a “this isn’t going to improve my stock, so why bother?” sort of thing. i don’t know, i’d guess he’d prefer to land in new york, but a single workout cancellation doesn’t make me think that he wouldn’t play for the wolves. workout politics is a new thing to me, i have no idea whether these guys are really trying to push themselves onto one team, refusing to play for a specific team, or are just uninterested in the constant workouts and don’t see the benefit. it’s weird.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 17, 2009 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dan Fegan is a Witch.
Your a Jerk.
Your a Jerk.
Your a Jerk.
I know.
by Sinigang on Jun 17, 2009 10:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Replace
the W with a B and then ill agree with you
REPRESENTING THE BAY TO THE FULLEST!!!
by California KID on Jun 17, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but its a bad word :p
We USED to Believe...
WE DEMAND IMPROVEMENT!
by RunNdGun on Jun 17, 2009 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Normally I wouldn’t care about this, but Cohan & Co. are the type of people who actually could let an agent hurt this team long term. :(
“I’m not really sure why folks are still upset at how Mullin was fired here. Plain and simple- overall he didn’t do a good job as the Warriors GM. At best he was just a nice guy who was way in over his head. His professionalism is handling Moped Gate is really questionable. If it was so bad this past season, he easily could have resigned from his duties. But he didn’t. He collected paychecks and according to players and other sources didn’t show up to work that often.”
That sounds like….exactly what Cohan & Co. would say about the situation. I believe the Warriors company line, what have they ever done to make me question it, after all?
And yes, I do think Mullin was doing a good job. He was in over his head to begin with, but greatly improved as a GM and was doing a good job, and the way he was undermined and pushed out reflects extremely poorly on the Warriors. Why would he resign? Or even show up when they took away all his responsibilities?
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 11:15 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
but none of us know exactly when Mullin stopped conducting the GM duties. Of the moves we KNOW were his, he was slightly below average at best. Lets face it, if the guy wasn’t one of the best and most popular players in franchise history nobody would have been upset by his dismissal.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 17, 2009 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
disagree
some of us are upset by mullin’s dismissal because he had a big hand in getting the warriors back to the playoffs. hey, i’m not saying he was an nba executive superstar. but the fact is that the franchise languished for years before he got here as gm, and i think there’s a feeling that now that he’s gone, things could get ugly. love to be wrong, but with guys refusing to even work out with gs, one has to wonder.
by g8tgod on Jun 17, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
many of the same people are against Nellie and he had more to do with a return to the playoffs than Mullin
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 17, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Mullin > Rowell, Cohan…anyday.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
by kenntoe on Jun 17, 2009 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man, I had a good reply to this and I think it got deleted because of one bad word, and I got a swearing warning. What’s the target audience for this site, anyways? The gist of my first post was the way Mullin was dismissed and undermined while the FO was too focused on shifting blame off themselves (and trying to discredit Mullin + Monta at the same time) is as much a reason I’m upset about the situation as the fact that he was “fired”. It’s just another example of the Warriors not focused on winning and running a quality franchise, but being the dysfunctional organization we’ve known under Cohan this whole time.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was wondering why it said 3 replies to that comment when there were only 2.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 17, 2009 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forreal sometimes swearing is just necessary
Are we the only place that cant curse
by 123707THIZZ on Jun 17, 2009 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dan Fegan is a D-Bag
He over hypes his players more than any other agent.
Not to mention that he was the one whispering in Al’s ear telling Al that he was better than he really is. Now Al and Fegan are even wearing out their welcome in NY despite getting everything that Al wanted.
I’d be happy if we never gave Fegan and his over-hyped players another dime (Yi Jianlin).
I blame Fegan almost as much as I blame Nelson, the FO, and Ellis for the crappy season last year.
IMO, Al should have been Marburied, and forced to opt out since the trade created redundancies on the bench that made acquiring Crawford almost a non-factor in games. Although Crawford is 3x as much fun to watch as Al. Which is probably indicative of the motivations behind this trade.
Fegan is the reason I want Salary caps for agents. There is no reason that they should command more monetary leverage than the teams. As we can see, players start caring more about what their agents can get them than the teams they are paid absurd sums of money to represent.
That still shouldn’t excuse the FO from having horrible relationships around the league.
Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!
by Nuck Chorris on Jun 17, 2009 11:15 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ugh, back to the agent salary cap thing? I thought we already shot that down. The players pay their agents to represent their interests, and that’s what Fegan does. If he’s ever represeneting his own interests over his client, his client is free to ditch him at any point. Honestly, I can’t put too much blame on Fegan for steering clients away from the joke of the franchise we root for.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can have a cap without compromising the players' interests. That's what the Union is for.
It simply makes no sense to have Fegan’s and Falk’s running around commanding twice what the teams have available to spend. It results in “Dr. Fegan” incidents which should have no place in this league.
Shoot it down all you want.
Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!
by Nuck Chorris on Jun 17, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There’s no way. Whether you like it or not, agents serve a valuable role. And the Union can’t look out for every individual’s interest on a personal level – just a league wide level. The worst consequence of an agent salary cap is now you’re forcing players to hire lower quality agents because the good ones can only take an artificially limited client base. By the way, have you ever looked at how America’s job market is set up? You make what someone is willing to pay you. You can’t blame agents for asking for as much money as possible for their clients, after all that’s what the players want. Teams don’t have to pay it, and if they do, it’s because they think the players worth it.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your higher quality / lower quality argument just doesn't stick.
Part of the reason these super-agents are “high quality” is because they command so much salary.
Also, the over-hyping of players is quite literally a shame of the NBA and is a direct product of the power that these agents wield.
Actually the union does look out for a player’s best interests on a personal level. That is exactly what they did with the Monta Ellis situation.
As far as Marcus Williams getting burned on the bench? Well his super agent (Duffy I think) didn’t do much for him there, did he? If anything it made the situation worse.
Don’t forget that Falk and Duffy were behind the signing that ruined 3 franchises for a year.
And as Jae said, if the agent is so busy picking personal battles then he doesn’t have his client’s best interests in mind.
Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!
by Nuck Chorris on Jun 17, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Also, the over-hyping of players is quite literally a shame of the NBA and is a direct product of the power that these agents wield.”
I don’t see a problem here. An agent hypes his player to try to get him paid. And? Where is that a problem? If he isn’t that good, don’t pay him that much. Pretty simple.
The Union looks into players complaints/legal issues with the CBA. As in, were the Warriors allowed to suspend Ellis. I’m not aware of them doing any more than that. Marcus Williams got burned on the bench because he sucks. He’s just not an NBA quality basketball player, not much an agent can do about that.
“Don’t forget that Falk and Duffy were behind the signing that ruined 3 franchises for a year.”
Don’t know specifically what you’re referring to, but I don’t see how an agent would be to blame for trying to get their clients the best contract possible. The team offered it, after all.
If it’s a personal battle, sure, you can argue it’s in the agents best interest and thats a scum move by the agent. The player should drop the agent, and it should reflect poorly on the agent in the future. It doesn’t reflect poorly on the role of agents in general, though. And keep in mind the Warriors are a terribly run franchise – there’s an argument to be made that it IS in his clients best interest to avoid them.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Part of the reason these super-agents are "high quality" is because they command so much salary.”
Forgot to address this :)
Salary is a big sticking point for players. Nobody wants their agent doing a poor job in negotiations, that’s why they hire the agent to begin with, after all. Plus, inexperienced agents aren’t as well connected and can frankly not have a clue what they’re doing, and those are things that can potentially hurt their clients.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All I want is more honesty and transparency in the NBA.
The agents stand in direct opposition to that. Sure it IS in their best interest and that is just the way things ARE. I understand that, don’t like it, and I want it to change.
Agents are a cancer in this league and I’ll leave it at that since you are so adamant about basing your arguments on the way things ARE even though the premise of this discourse was about how it could be better.
The thing is that the biggest contract isn’t always what’s best for the player.
Respect = Money in the NBA. That is a culture fueled by agents, and is most certainly not in the best interests of the league. Hence, the argument that there should be controls on agents. Why shouldn’t the playing field for agents be more level?
Saying other agents are simply idiots or are incompetent is simply being disingenuous. For agents money is gravity. Are you saying Dan Fegan was always experienced?
Remember the strike? That was Falk’s doing. The super-agents literally took away basketball. Screw them.
Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!
by Nuck Chorris on Jun 17, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All I want is the type of working environment every American has the right to pursue. You think taking agents out of the equation will make things better, but better for who? It’ll make it better for the guys who own the team. Every employment situation is a face off between the employee and the employer, and agents step in on behalf of the employee to maximize their leverage and put them into the best working environment possible.
For most players, “the best working environment” = where they get the most money, and if that’s what they want, fine, they should have every freedom to pursue that opportunity. If they have other things they’re interested in, they have the freedom to advise their agent on that, too. If a company with a desireable work environment is appealing to a player…well you can see why his agent would avoid the Warriors. Location can be a factor, like when Elton Brand made his decision he wanted to be on the east coast. It’s a players responsibility to make sure his agent understands what he wants and gets it, and an honest agent will pursue this to the best of their abillity. I don’t see where any of this is a bad thing. It’s a very reasonable and American thing to do.
The strike, by the way, was no different than any other group of people that decide to strike. It sucks for the fans, but it always sucks for the consumers when the workers associated with a product they want goes on strike. It’s because the workers feel it’s their best move to get what they feel they deserve with the leverage they have. Criticizing agents for a players strike is ridiculous. You could just as easily say the owners could have given in to their demands.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The strike didn't happen because of the players.
The fact that you say it was no different shows how little you actually know about it.
It was one agent, Falk, who initiated the walkout. You should read up on it, and maybe then you’ll realize how little the player’s interests were actually being represented.
“All I want is the type of working environment every American has the right to pursue.”
I got a good laugh out of that. They make millions of dollars. They’re not pursuing, they’re there buddy. The fact that greed is the prerogative of players is in fact a shame, and the NBA should be restructured to reflect that Winning = Money + Respect. Rather than simply money equaling respect.
Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!
by Nuck Chorris on Jun 17, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
“They make millions of dollars.”
This is such a stupid outlook, yet so many people take it. Yeah, let’s try to deprive them of rights we all want just because they’re priveleged enough to make a lot of money playing basketball. We don’t seem to hold CEO’s or other lucrative paying jobs to that standard, just athletes. I don’t get it. Nevermind the fact that the people who’s money we’re trying to save from the athletes are the people who have enough money to pay an entire team worth of players (the owners).
I don’t understand what the whole money = respect stuff is about? Should players just be happy to win and not look at the NBA as a business? Should they disregard that it’s their career and they have a short time to acquire their life earnings compared to most workers? With all the owners that are more interested in the business side of the franchise (just look at our own Cohan & Co. run franchise), why is it the agents that is all thats wrong with sports? I just don’t see what you’re getting at.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I do think CEO's should be held to the same standard.
You shouldn’t assume.
I don’t believe socialism is a bad word. If their “freedom” to make a few more million dollars is restricted by what the agents can do it still won’t affect the quality of their lives (as compared to the rest of us) in the least.
Your second paragraph is just absurd. I actually think there should be more agents if you’d have carefully read my arguments. I simply think there should be less super-agents.
Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!
by Nuck Chorris on Jun 17, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My second paragraph wasn’t really trying to make a point, just ask questions because I really didn’t understand what you were getting at with the money = respect stuff.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean, I can see as a fan wanting athletes to be paid less and those savings passed directly onto the fan. Who wouldn’t want to get to watch our team play for less than it currently costs. The problem is every penny we don’t pay the athlete is a penny that goes into the owners pocket, not a penny saved by fans. If that’s one of the things you’re arguing against, I would call you idealistic without necessarily disagreeing with you, I’m just being realistic in the fact that there’s a given amount of money going to players/owners, and I’m all for everything in the players favor in the battle for that money, after all they’re the product and the ones with the talent. And agents are an important service in that battle, and “super-agents” have all the big clients because they’re good at their job, and if they weren’t, they would get dropped.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well we'll always have each other.
Woe is me…. the idealist.
Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!
by Nuck Chorris on Jun 17, 2009 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You come off as more jealous and/or bitter than idealistic.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 17, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
jealous.... of what?
Bitter… no.
Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!
by Nuck Chorris on Jun 17, 2009 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So I briefly skimmed the wikipedia article of the lockout, and I see no mention of agents anywhere. I see this line, “After the two sides failed to reach an agreement, the owners began the lockout.”.
Dunno who wrote the wikipedia article, if you would like to elaborate on what role the agents had, feel free.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fact that you went to Wikipedia to do your research speaks volumes.
Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!
by Nuck Chorris on Jun 17, 2009 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was looking for a quick and easy briefing, and I found one. I don’t see the issue. If you were interested in a thoughtful conversation on the subject, you’re free to post links or whatever knowledge you have to enlighten us.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are bad at wikipedia.
Took me like 3 seconds to find.
Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!
by Nuck Chorris on Jun 17, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I went to the ‘98 lockout article. I thought it would be a good place to start. Maybe it wasn’t…
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, so I read the article, and it definitely left me wanting more. I don’t really feel like I understand the issue/situation.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get off your high horse
If you’re right, you’re not helping Missing Barry read the article you want him to read. He read a separate article that didn’t back up your claim, and you called him an idiot (I’m reading between the lines of your “dripping with sarcasm” comment). If you want to have a serious debate with him, stop sticking your nose in the air and look your adversary straight in the eye.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 17, 2009 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly where do I call him an idiot?
Perhaps I shouldn’t have said “You are bad at wikipedia” but honestly that’s not very insulting. Barry’s a player in the game, and we’ve had a nice little debate here.
Sure wikipedia is a great tool for initiating research, but factual points of controversy and provocative perspectives are not included, and that severely degrades the context of information presented on Wikipedia. Especially regarding highly debatable subject matter.
Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!
by Nuck Chorris on Jun 17, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sounds like your looking for fiction bs and rumors, and your right its not in Wikipedia
by Dungeness Crab Dribble on Jun 17, 2009 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lol
No, I just take wikipedia for what it is.
Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!
by Nuck Chorris on Jun 17, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
See where it says:
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 17, 2009 5:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions 0 recs
Click on where it says “up”.
It’ll take you to:
The fact that you went to Wikipedia to do your research speaks volumes.
Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!
by Nuck Chorris on Jun 17, 2009 4:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions 0 recs
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 17, 2009 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i had no idea what the “up” button did. that seems very helpful. learn something new every day, i guess.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 17, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sucks for you
Though, you do spend plenty of time here, so that information might be useful… Let’s both try to learn something more valuable tomorrow, ok?
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 17, 2009 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i didn’t say i was only going to learn “one thing new every day”. there’s still plenty of time to improve on something of such little importance by picking up more knowledge.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 17, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also,
Notice here:
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 17, 2009 5:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions 0 recs
See how the icons are translated into “to parent”, “reply”, and “actions”? Cool…
Dammit, there’s my “one thing” for today.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 17, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, thanks.
Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!
by Nuck Chorris on Jun 17, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope I didn't sound too condescending....
Wasn’t meant to be.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 17, 2009 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't too sure how to take it at first...
but I can’t really sling insults at others and not take them. Besides, it the sarcasm, wit and “information” are the reasons I visit this website.
Information comes different ways, and sometimes it comes with an insult, or with a heap of B.S. (like a Fitzgerald interview).
Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!
by Nuck Chorris on Jun 17, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Besides, it the sarcasm, wit and "information" are the reasons I visit this website.
I wish there were more of us…
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 18, 2009 5:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What do those volumes say? Despite the potential for abuse, Wikipedia is much more often than not a reliable summary and a useful tool for starting that sort of research. I don’t know about the specifics of this case but the “wikipedia = bogus” equation is false more often than not.
by jae on Jun 17, 2009 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wikipedia’s accuracy on mainstream (often visited) articles is better than any encyclopedia you’ll find.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Fegan is trying to make it less likely that Holiday will be picked by the Warriors, I am not certain that he does have his best interests at heart. The difference between being picked #7 and #14 (an example, since he’s apparently working out for the Suns) is several million dollars over the life of the contract. Further, even when you control for performance, being picked higher in the draft influences the post-rookie scale contracts as guys who were picked higher are still, 5 years down the line, judged as having more “potential” and tend to get more than a later pick with similar (or even better) production would.
by jae on Jun 17, 2009 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean, there’s a reasonable case that Fegan doesn’t have his clients interest in mind and is trying to take advantage of Holiday, but at the same time, Holiday is free to drop him at any time…
I would say it’s more a poor reflection on Fegan’s character and dealings than on the role of agents.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just draft his sorry butt and he will play regardless of his weak agent.
I just odntl think he is the best pick. Either Flynn or jennings is better and they both wer every happy and enthusiastic to be here.
by Dungeness Crab Dribble on Jun 17, 2009 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he’ll play, but the problem is how do you evaluate if he’s the best player without getting him in for a workout.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't disagree more on Harrington, Mullin
You’re quilty of oversimplification on several counts.
let’s not distort things and make it out to be all Nellie’s fault. Harrington straight up quit on this team and his teammates with a “back injury” that magically healed the second he was traded to the New York Knicks. I can’t say he really improved his game over his 2 seasons here either.
You are the one distorting things now AB1. Harrington was very quiet about his trade request over the several months of the season previous to his being dealt to NYK while it was the team that went public with his demand; the “back injury” was as much a mutual understanding as something Harrington concocted; and the charge that he quit on GSW doesn’t hold up when contrasted to how Nelson manipulated both the player and the media during training camp last year. Far from Harrington quitting on the team, he was consistently used out of position and though he was not the prototypical PF nor the second coming of Chris Webber, he gave what he had to the playoff-bound warriors. Lest we forget, Mullin was after him during his FA period, and the Indy trade relieved us of Dunleavy while netting us Jax & Harrington on the way to the playoffs. I like Don Nelson too, but he is far from blameless in this and to pin it all on Harrington is revisionist, at best.
As for Mullin, he was not a good GM during the first part of his tenure (including earlier extensions to Murphy, Foyle & Dunleavy, and a sketchy draft record prior to Nelson’s arrival) but the moves he made in the last year were sound (at least the ones most likely attributable to him): Turiaf, KAz, Maggette – I know I’ll get arguments on that one. The Jax extension, Crawford trade, and Monta penalty do not appear to have his fingerprints. Had we not done the Jax and Crawford deals we’d be in far better financial shape moving forward. Mullin’s impact upon the organization was not as simple as painting it:
Plain and simple- overall he didn’t do a good job as the Warriors GM.
That’s another oversimplification of reality.
by hardcore on Jun 17, 2009 11:19 AM PDT reply actions 4 recs
Mully didn't do the Jax extention
A Sonics fan without a team.. Though I'm auditioning GS Warriors this season.
by mcwalter44 on Jun 17, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually Harrington was heard mouthing off about his situation to a hot dog vendor.
He could have helped the team in so many ways if he just stopped trying to drive all the time and shoot threes. People will say, “THAT’S WHAT NELSON WANTED!”
However, in reality the end of the relationship consisted of Nelson yelling at Harrington to get in the low post (I could hear him through my T.V.) then getting enraged when Al heaved up a few threes. Not only that, but he was sitting on the perimeter waiting for passes and heading back to D without ever crashing the boards for the offensive rebound. Needless to say Nelson wasn’t happy with that.
Al was a waste because he stopped picking his on-court battles at the expense of the team, and a lot of it had to do with what his agent was telling him.
Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!
by Nuck Chorris on Jun 17, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harrington deserved how Nellie treated him
Nellie will always play the guy that fits the teams needs most. I think as an old school guy, he just expects players to shut up and play and I think that’s what causes most of the complaints about him. He doesn’t baby players. Big Al’s attitude was selfish and bad for the team. thanks to Nellie, we don’t have to deal with his diva BS anymore.
by NextSeason on Jun 17, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hardcore my man
I don’t think for a second that Nellie is free from any blame in the Al Harrington situation as I intimated above. BUT let’s not paint Harrington as some saint here like his agent would love you to do. Straight up- he quit on this franchise. He did not improve his play. There’s no revisionist analysis here.
Mullin DID NOT improve radically as a GM, but more on that later. The Crawford trade seems like it was as much his doing as Nellie and Riley’s if not more. Check the archives.
I actually think the fact that Mullin didn’t think it was prudent to penalize/ fine Monta after Moped Gate is further evidence that he was not fit to be a front office executive. He didn’t hold his players accountable and babied them (e.g. silly extensions for Dunleavy and Murphy). Monta did not show up to work for half of a season and when he did he threw a bunch of tantrums and was a distraction. Way to go Mullin for babying this guy.
by Atma Brother ONE on Jun 17, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
we can disagree
… not trying to win you over
blame enough for both Nelson and Harrington – just as you say: Nelson is not blameless, I’ll meet you half way and agree neither is AH. Rather than see him quitting on the franchise, I see him as saying no mas to Nelson’s machinations but that’s water over the damn now … that relationship was poorly handled by Nelson and Harrington, and netted us the Crawford trade. I blame Nelson more, you blame Harrington more.
Mullin did improve as GM, if by no other standard than resisting extending guys who shouldn’t’ve been extended, and drafting a bit better over the course of the years (though, as others have been apt to point out some of that is pure luck). You can’t use the earlier extensions to Dunleavy et al as evidence he babied players later … his GM moves in the last 12 months, imo, were among his best when stacked up over the stretch of his whole tenure, and I have consistently given Nelson at least partial credit for that improvement … but Mullin did improve, based upon the fruit of his labor.
It may not have been as public, but Monta DID “show up” to work – he rehab’d his injury, came back with some vengence and, yes, a chip on his shoulder (which I kind of liked to see, as a former coach when a player has a bit of ‘tude it’s a motivator. I don’t care who or where his motivation comes from as long as it helps the team win) and his performance coming back was enough for me to conclude that physically he recovered fully from the injury. Lastly, I don’t see the evidence for a “bunch of tantrums” – frustration, yes, tantrums? not from this vantage point.
Forgot to say, good post re Fegan. And it goes to show that the FO lack of finesse in handling player personnel relations in the past is coming home to roost. Is it right? who knows, but what comes around goes around and that’s as true for GSW as it is for Fegan and his clients.
by hardcore on Jun 17, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the thoughts
Actually I blame Nellie and Al about equally for the fallout. Both mishandled the situation. At the end of the day I don’t think either side really lost much. Al honestly wasn’t anything but a lower tier starting PF after that We Believe spring and has gone on to put up more low % stats in the Big Apple. I don’t think for a second that Nellie even cares that Harrington is gone. At some level Harrington’s move to NY opened up more minutes for Wright and then for Randolph. Seems like a win to me. I still like JC and think he can be a solid (though overpaid) 6th man- which is exactly what Al’s ceiling is aside from a gimmicky stretch in 07.
Mullin was stilling handing out dumb deals (e.g. Kosta Perovic), burning draft picks (e.g. Marco Belinelli), and making dumb trades (e.g. Marcus Williams). He babied Monta Ellis post We Believe at a time when the young man needed to be disciplined and get an earful about professionalism.
Monta did indeed work hard to come back from that injury. I’ll give him that. The tantrums I’m referring to are the “play me now demands” when he obviously wasn’t ready to play (and he actually came back to soon), the “I’ve BEEN playing PG” nonsense, and the games through the press expressing his dissatisfaction with the Warriors situation and direction. He’s the last guy who should be complaining. His screw-ups are the #1 reason this team is so messed up right now.
by Atma Brother ONE on Jun 17, 2009 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good post Atma
I really agree that Fegan is doing his clients a disservice with these little feuds and Jax did the right thing by showing him the door. In this instance, I also agree with the warriors front office (gasp). They did the right thing in not letting Fagen bully them into unreasonable deals.
by NextSeason on Jun 17, 2009 11:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm on Harrington's side
It’s no surprise that Harrington went public with his trade requests at the time that he did: right after Nelson’s extension, Jack’s extension, and the Maggette signing. He saw our franchise was going to be in deep crap and he wanted out, you can’t fault him for that.
Maybe he doesn’t have the fierce loyalty to the organization like JRich did, but I’m not going to hate on the guy for knowing his left from right.
"We Deserve"
by YaHeard on Jun 17, 2009 11:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Except if Harrington made an effort to play within his limits
they would have been a pretty good team with a lot of interesting match-up options. Even more so with Monta coming back.
If anything I think he was afraid (and rightfully so) that he would end up splitting minutes with Randolph or even playing behind him.
Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!
by Nuck Chorris on Jun 17, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everything you need to know about Fegan
is summed up right here.
Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!
by Nuck Chorris on Jun 17, 2009 12:12 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I wouldnt want to bring my client here now either
“plain and simple”
by 123707THIZZ on Jun 17, 2009 12:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The Yay Area?
but serioisly man what are you doing on this site? Do you even know what this site is? cause is never seems like you cant grasp this is a site where people give opinions
by 123707THIZZ on Jun 17, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remarkably, many others on here fail to grasp it as well. But that is only my opinion.
LeBron James? I'm the only Ty Crane.
by misterjennings on Jun 18, 2009 6:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Post Atma. It P!ssed me off though.
Fegan = Fail.
Wheres jerry mcGuire & his qualm when you need him.
by meximocha on Jun 17, 2009 12:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Tyreke Evans is another Fegan client
that is not working out for the Warriors.
I agree that while Fegan is a d-bag and may not have the best interests of his clients at heart, they’re still the ones employing him, and should have some say over how he handles their business. If they want to work out for the Warriors, they should be able to tell him to set it up. If he refuses, they have the right to drop him. I just wish more of them DID drop him.
by ffgolden on Jun 17, 2009 12:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Chris Webber
The rookie seasons of Chris Webber…should put this nonsense about how Nellie doesn’t play young players to rest.
More attention should be paid to how Nelly plays rookies than whether he plays them. By constantly playing C-Webb out of position he drove out the Warriors last hope for a perennial All-Star.
Monta Ellis is now unaVOIDable
by marzorg on Jun 17, 2009 1:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i just want to point out that the last 5 front page posts have started with “RUMOR:”. the offseason is fun.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 17, 2009 1:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
On the bright side: “RUMOR” tends to bode a lot better than “TRADE IDEA.”
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Jun 17, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i love this time of year for GSoM. nothing’s really happening, but we’ve got tons to discuss, almost all of it totally irrelevant and really fun. it’s a good time for all. i can’t wait until the non-basketball discussions become more frequent.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 17, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
at least its not an election year
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 17, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I liked this post
It refreshing to remember how much more enjoyable your front page posts can be when you aren’t kissing Kawakami’s butt. ; )
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 17, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
even those ones are good, though. are you saying you didn’t enjoy figuring out where the holes in TK’s story were or having a momentary freakout until you realized that it wasn’t likely 100 percent accurate? what else do we have going in the offseason? rumors, ridiculous or no, are about the best we’ve got for basketball related entertainment.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 17, 2009 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that’s kinda sorta true. I don’t know if I’d call my reaction to reading the line “quite possibly the hardest working Bay Area reporter, Tim Kawakami,….” enjoyable, but I see what you’re saying. Its like the NBA without the Lakers or the MLB without the Yankees/Dodgers.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 17, 2009 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny how when anyone has a blog and writes anything. 100 guys on this board believe it.
All I have to do is use the quotes " unnamed source" or “word on the street” then make pretty much any statement and we are gullable enough to have a feeding frenzy on some thing that is more than likely false to begin with. It amounts to nothing more than mental masterbation!
by Dungeness Crab Dribble on Jun 17, 2009 2:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but without made up rumors what would we spend our work lives talking about?
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
REC!
I spend my work life typing at the “100 guys” about how they shouldn’t believe it ;-)
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 17, 2009 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’m even willing to talk about these rumors as if they were true; the sheer fun of discussing unlikely hypothetical situations cannot be ignored.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 17, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, by the way, I have a tee time on Friday in Boston, but I’m hearing rumors its going to rain and get cancelled. What the hell is that about. It’s mid-June!
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was 07
I played maybe 6 times that summer because it was always rained out. I’m sooooo…. looking forward to moving back to California where I can, you know, go outside 12 month of the year.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 18, 2009 5:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear ya, we just officially cancelled golf for tomorrow. It’s pouring in Philly where I am now. It’s mid-June…god I need to move back home.
by Missing Barry on Jun 18, 2009 6:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How seriously does the average GSOM’er take each rumor? Any more than a grain of salt is too much.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
by kenntoe on Jun 17, 2009 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even the average conveyer of the rumors (yours truly) doesn’t take most of them very seriously. Mostly for entertainment purposes only.
by Atma Brother ONE on Jun 17, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If this was real news it would be elsewhere and not in blogs
and when anyone real says anything about it they say “word on the street”
word ont he street = non factual rumor
by Dungeness Crab Dribble on Jun 17, 2009 2:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Word on the street is Dungeness Crab Dribble is, in fact, Debbie Downer in real life.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So says Missing Barry's unnamed sources
I bet you got that from the PR team at DCDhaters.com. He’s really Ursula Upper.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 17, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m just passing along TK knowledge. If I knew his source, I’d tell you.
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you realize that if you were a Warrior fanand and all you read, watched,
and listened to was mainstream news you would not even know about this. Just shows you how this is not news there for is nothing more than BS. Kind of like Missing Barry.
by Dungeness Crab Dribble on Jun 17, 2009 2:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Did you know if you were a Warriors fan and all you read, watched, and listened to was mainstream news, you’d probably live in the reality where we’ve made the playoffs once in 15 years. At least we get to spend our time imagining the good things that we could be doing if Cohan didn’t own the team :)
by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2009 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you realize that if you were a Warrior fanand and all you read, watched,
and listened to was mainstream news you would probably still be upset that we didn’t keep Baron.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 17, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was upset about the JRich trade
I even think that it was what precipitated me to actually sign up for an account instead of reading OZ trash everybody… Then I quickly got into an argument with him where I was backing some TK article…
Yeah, times have changed. My point was, coming to GSoM debunked a lot of my preconceptions, like how getting rid of JRich’s ginormous contract was a good thing. That the Dunleavy and Murphy contracts (which I’d thought were weird, but not godawful) were godawful.
Yay GSoM!
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 18, 2009 5:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fegan= douche
Fegan can’t even get a real superstar talent to sign with him who does he thinks he is. His website is so whack for a supposed “Power agent.” I’m definitely gonna send him a little hate email and see what happens.
by FIREROWELL on Jun 17, 2009 2:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
FIRE BOBBY
ATMA BRO… are you an employee of the warriors?
You are the harshest critic of the CC/RR regime yet you trash Mully at the same time? Jrue will lose millions short term if he’s picked after 7 but he will have a far better career if he doesn’t land in warrior hell where his talents will be misutilized and his defense will evaporate like water in the mojave desert. Over the last 15 seasons, the only good seasons have come when Mully was VP. I do hope the Warriors brass prove me wrong and produce a product on the court equal to what the team rakes in.
Take a look at McCovey Chronicles and Niners Nation and please make this site better. There is a reason why WW.net is by far better, it’s b/c they keep it real. Forget trying to hide all this negativity, that’s the warriors way and see where that’s gotten them.
J.
by GState21 on Jun 17, 2009 5:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
WW.net?
That twitter page site? That is a joke!
by Dungeness Crab Dribble on Jun 17, 2009 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
really? I love that site as well, hella funny reads and poignant.
This site can at times take it’s self way to seriously, but also has some great stuff.
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
by qin on Jun 17, 2009 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tyreke Evans at no. 7 ?
If Tyreke Evans is stil available at 7, Warriors better pick himj up quickly, regardless of him working out for the dubs or not. Tyreke would be a perfect fit for us alongside Monta
by ARandolph on Jun 17, 2009 7:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
why?
try to answer that without using “he’s 6’5” " as your primary response. Jamal Crawford is the same height. No Jamal Crawford doesn’t rebound like Evans did in college, but he also has a better jump-shot.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 17, 2009 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have developed a visceral reaction to hearing that a player is “a perfect fit” with Monta. It’s now to the point that when I hear it, I immediately don’t want that player. I don’t want someone if that argument seems at the forefront as I suspect that in considering the player, “fit” may well have blinded people to “can actually play well enough to help an NBA team”.
I realize that there might be players who could work very well with Monta who are also good players, but it just screams “need pick” so much. Draft picks rarely work out as well as the hype around draft time. It’s long odds to get a useful player. Need picks take bad odds and make them worse, much worse.
by jae on Jun 17, 2009 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
jae, curious who you would like us to draft and why?
by Dungeness Crab Dribble on Jun 17, 2009 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
my guess
Ty Lawson. North Carolina. And because nobody has really made a great argument that he won’t be as good as most of the guys we are discussing.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 17, 2009 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and because Lawson’s a very poor “fit” next to Monta . too short
"We Deserve"
by YaHeard on Jun 17, 2009 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I cannot provide an unbiased opinion of Tar Heel players until they’ve spent a few years in the pros. I cannot really be sure what I think about Lawson. Objectively, he’s as fast or faster than Flynn and his statistics put Flynn’s to shame. He also appeared to be the most vital cog to a team that won a championship. He was successful in transition and in the half court. He shot well, passed well, didn’t turn the ball over. Will this translate to success in the pros? Dunno, but I have yet to hear a reasonable reason why Flynn is the draft darling and Lawson is sliding in mock after mock unless you see a few inches in standing reach and 4 inches in vertical leap are the difference between being good and bad in pros.
My own draft suggestion history isn’t very good. I was really, really down on the Randolph pick, and that looks like the winner, especially given the alternatives. I was really, really, really down on the POB, but had I been in charge, I don’t know that I’ve had taken anyone else who would be contributing.
by jae on Jun 17, 2009 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also appeared to be the most vital cog to a team that won a championship.
This is the most important. Not only does he have experience on the big stage, but he reacts very well to that stage.
I have yet to hear a reasonable reason why Flynn is the draft darling and Lawson is sliding in mock after mock unless you see a few inches in standing reach and 4 inches in vertical leap are the difference between being good and bad in pros.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31608
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jonny-Flynn-1245/
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ty-Lawson-485/
The only thing I see is 1 year and 4 months. I’d love to have Lawson on the Warriors. We could probably even trade down to draft him.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 18, 2009 6:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
He kind of reminds me of Jameer Nelson, or maybe I should say his situation reminds me of Jameer’s when he was coming out. He was the best player on one of the best teams that year, but because of his height and the fact that he didn’t look particularly athletic most of the league passed on him. It seems like kind of an obvious whiff now, but at the time, when everybody was saying he wouldn’t be athletic enough for the NBA, it became pretty easy to overlook everything he accomplished in college.
I could see Lawson’s draft night playing out a similar way, and for no real good reason.
Thing 2
by olympicmike on Jun 18, 2009 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i really like the jameer comparison. not in terms of game, but as you said, just draft situaiton. interesting stuff.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 18, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it makes you feel any better, Hollinger’s draft predictor system is a big Lawson fan.
by Missing Barry on Jun 18, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don’t get it. He doesn’t look to be worse than Flynn. He looks to be better in almost every way save 1 inch in standing reach and 4 inches in vertical leap. Statistically, he’s better in up tempo and half court situations in almost every regard.
I really suspect that there’s a collective brain freeze and too many people still cannot distinguish between Felton and Lawson.
by jae on Jun 18, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think when it comes to the actual draft “experts”, it’s more a thing about Flynn being a “better athlete” – if you check out the video of him working out for the Warriors he’s a real explosive leaper – whether he really is or isn’t a better “athlete” than Lawson, I can see some people seeing that and thinking he is. I also think some of the draft “experts” are somewhat wary of his NC numbers – they’re not sure what effect the system has on them. That’s pure speculation on my part.
As for normal fans, yeah I think the Felton/Lawson comparison sticks more than it should.
by Missing Barry on Jun 18, 2009 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
I think when it comes to the actual draft "experts", it’s more a thing about Flynn being a "better athlete" – if you check out the video of him working out for the Warriors he’s a real explosive leaper
I think this time of year it’s really easy to watch a guy who looks explosive and physically imposing and get a little overly focused on that one aspect of the game.
It’s pretty common to hear all the standard lines like “you can’t teach speed”, or “you can’t teach size”, but that doesn’t mean you should ignore when a guy shows that he excels at the things you can teach.
I think it might just be a by-product of the whole pre-draft workout culture. Some of the draft experts should probably take a break from analyzing combine measurements and watch some game tape to remind themselves what happens when these guys play in actual, competitive, 5 on 5 basketball. It’s too easy to watch a guy who can jump out of the gym and use your imagination to give him a quality 3pt shot and PG skills, but at the end of the day projections are just projections. Some guys will go on to improve, and some guys just won’t.
Thing 2
by olympicmike on Jun 19, 2009 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s pretty common to hear all the standard lines like "you can’t teach speed", or "you can’t teach size", but that doesn’t mean you should ignore when a guy shows that he excels at the things you can teach.
Nicely said. A lesson I learned from Ike Diogu’s wingspan.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 22, 2009 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jumping high helps in basketball. It really does, although it’s not at all like Lawson is nailed to the floorboards. But it doesn’t take me too long to remember several amazingly explosive leapers who did nothing in the NBA. Perhaps useful, perhaps not: Jordan Farmar, Will Bynum, Bobby Brown, Speedy Claxton, and Nate Robinson all outperformed Flynn in the vertical leap at the combine.
by jae on Jun 21, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait a minute
Tyreke Evans agent isn’t Fegan, he hired Arn Tellem as his agent, does anyone actually know why he hasn’t worked out for the dubs yet ?
by ARandolph on Jun 17, 2009 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could it be we haven't scheduled him to come in yet.
Either way it looks like he is gone by #5. More and mor eit appears it is Curry or Flynn
by Dungeness Crab Dribble on Jun 17, 2009 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoops you're right
Somehow I thought he had Fegan, must have been looking at the wrong profile.
by ffgolden on Jun 17, 2009 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to believe that Mullin was in the wrong this whole time, and the W's front office is great....
But I don’t. Then again, if they lock down Rubio somehow and clean up the cap next week, I will forgive, and hope will return.
by I Spit Hot Fire on Jun 17, 2009 8:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
1.GRIFFIN
2. HASHEEM
3.RUBIO
4. FLYNN
5. HARDEN
6. CURRY
7. JENNINGS
8.HILL
9. DEROZEN
10. HOLIDAY
Your a Jerk.
Your a Jerk.
Your a Jerk.
I know.
by Sinigang on Jun 17, 2009 8:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Is that a mock draft or a big board?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 17, 2009 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think its a mock
Thizzin since 1989!!!
by W$P Fo Life on Jun 17, 2009 9:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Youre full of it
“Plain and simple- overall he didn’t do a good job as the Warriors GM” You can always tell the people who JUST became W’s fans. Listen i’ve been hating this ownership and Rowell for move than 15 years. LONG BEFORE you even figure out how full of crap this ownership is. That quote I used where you question Mullin speaks for itself about your lack of knowlege concerning the Warriors. In Mullins 5 years as GM lets see…traded dead weight for some stars…who….made the playoffs (into the second round) won 48 games and drafted players not named TODD FULLER (how’s that Kobe kid work out again?). REAL FANS understand this…not fans who just showed up all of the sudden because its the in thing to do in the bay-pay of over priced tickets for a team and ownership that just down right pathetic. I was a season ticket holder for almost 20 years. No more. If your man enough read this article..then go out and rewrite your bull.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/article?f=/c/a/2008/11/10/SP8M141JO9.DTL
the liar is clearly Rowell and his butt buddy Cohan
by Rios425 on Jun 18, 2009 11:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m all for critiques of my work (in fact I welcome them especially during the offseason to make things interesting), but not for entirely ignorant ones. Please check the GSoM archives before making these “full of it” assertions.
You can always tell the people who JUST started reading GSoM.
by Atma Brother ONE on Jun 18, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rios425 is clearly a real fan, and you, AB1, are such a bandwagoner that you probably didn’t even been know the Warriors existed 2 years ago, let alone followed them or knew who the past Warriors greats are. You’ve probably never heard the name “Jason Richardson,” well, let me tell you…
PS. I’m not “man enough” to read his article, has anybody else? Was it worth your time?
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 18, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don’t bother with links if the poster cannot bother to check that his link works.
Simple solutions: either use the ‘link’ feature, or put the cut-and-paste URL in quotes, else the wrapper can get confused. If I have to cut and paste myself, odds of me following the link drop to near zero.
by jae on Jun 18, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you, AB1, are such a bandwagoner that you probably didn’t even been know the Warriors existed 2 years ago
Haha it was amazing how we kept that Golden State Warriors BLOG thing going strong when we didn’t even know this team existed!
let alone followed them or knew who the past Warriors greats are
Aw yes names such as Foyle, Fuller, Declerq, Cummings, Porter come to mind…
by Atma Brother ONE on Jun 18, 2009 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had forgotten about Declerq. Did I mention I hate you?
by Missing Barry on Jun 18, 2009 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think WarriorsWorld or some other site recently did a where are they now interview with Declerq….not to promote other, inferior warrior sites or anything.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 22, 2009 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
One last thing
only idiots think trading Monta or AB is a good idea. I bet you’d love us to take Patty Mills…simply because he’s a local guy. Again…idiotic.
by Rios425 on Jun 18, 2009 11:28 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
A collection of people, including idiots, morons, and the dimwitted present hypothetical strawmen (e.g. “I bet you’d love use to take Patty Mills”) that don’t reflect anything that was actually said.
by jae on Jun 18, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nothing wrong with wanting to trade Monta or AB if you get something better in return.
I’d love to trade for a late first early second round pick and get Mills as a backup PG. What’s wrong with that? Not a single person has even suggested taking him with the 7th overall pick.
by Missing Barry on Jun 18, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
u guys better ban this guy
i got banned for calling someone ‘d*mb’!
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawk on Jun 18, 2009 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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