RUMORS: Warriors building around Monta Ellis, "deeply involved in trade talks" for #7 pick, and Larry Riley would like a "little beef"
by Atma Brother ONE on Jun 19, 2009 9:44 AM PDT
in Rumors
104 comments
Part II of the RUMOR: Warriors promised Monta Ellis they will not draft a play-making guard to appease him in links and quotes plus much more after the jump!
Even when he's not playing he and his camp make a lot of noise. [via lowposts.com]
Ken Berger of CBS Sports writes Warriors not shopping Monta:
"The GM and the coach traveled to Memphis to further provide that assurance to Monta that this is his team and they're looking to build this team around him for years to come," Fried said in a phone interview Friday. "Monta's response to them was that the most important component is winning. He wants to win and he wants to win with the Warriors."
Golden State has the seventh pick in next Thursday's draft and is deeply involved in trade talks involving the pick. But those talks, evidently, will not involve Ellis.
Building the team around an undersized shooting guard with limited handles, court vision, defensive desire, maturity, hoops IQ, and overall smarts... is not a bright idea. Don Nelson and Larry Riley are smarter than that. I'm calling their bluff or Fried's distortion of what was actually said. I believe Monta's being tossed around in trade proposals as he should be. If he can be part of a trade for Amare Stoudemire or Chris Bosh this offseason will have been a huge success.
This is the first I've heard of the Warriors actively trying to trade the #7 pick as part of a larger trade package. Very interesting indeed. The hype around a draft is usually off the charts right before draft day and soon after. It would be great to capitalize on.
Over at Fanhouse Matt Steinmetz also chimes in with Monta Ellis Wants to Retire a Warrior:
Ellis said in an interview with KNBR that general manager Larry Riley and coach Don Nelson had flown east to meet him and that the get-together "really put us on the same page."
The obvious question from this is of course is- so you guys weren't on the same page before this get-together? Why?
ESPN's Chad Ford talks to GM Larry Riley in his latest Draft Buzz on ESPN adds to the discussion:
Riley said that he and head coach Don Nelson have been meeting with every player on the team, debriefing what went down last season, and trying to get the entire team on the same page. He said they weren't meeting with Ellis because he was disgruntled or demanding a trade. It was in the course of interviews with everyone on the team...
"We did not make him a promise on who we're going to draft," Riley said. "There was none of that. There was no talk about not drafting particular positions or particular players. Our talk was totally about our team and our staff and getting things moving in the right direction. We were trying to get everyone on the same page."
So would the Warriors balk at drafting a point guard at No. 7? "If the right guy was there at the point, we'd draft him," Riley said. But when I asked Riley what his preference would be, he said, "I'd like to have a little beef. We can always use more size and toughness. We don't really have a gaping hole at any position, so I think we'll draft the best player available. If it's a point guard, then it will be a point guard. If it's a 4, then that's who we'll take."
Larry Riley really seems to be a fan of this campaign:
Maybe Brandan Wright should start eating the beef if he wants to stay with the Dubs?
Tim Kawakami from the Mercury adds Monta Ellis speaks: Sounds like he expects to be (surprise) the Warriors’ point guard:
But was Ellis asked whether he'd been told that the Warriors wouldn't take a play-making guard? Was he even asked about the draft/don't-draft a PG issue? No and no. Hmm, interesting.
Aren't you glad there's no conflict of interest when a Warriors employee is doing the interviewing on their flagship radio station? Even Larry King gives tougher interviews.
Hear for yourself: Monta interview KNBR (mp3, 6/18/2009) (IQofaWarrior)
Mo Moped. Mo Problems.
99% of rumors never happen, but 99% of them are fun to talk about!
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Atma! Why are you continuing to be a shill for TK.
Hey, look up the Larry Riley interview. He clearly states they will draft a PG if he is the BPA. Rumors are fun and fine but when it is clear to even a blind squirrel that they are false it is time to stop. Your loyalty to that scab Kawakami has to stop for your own sake.
by Dungeness Crab Dribble on Jun 19, 2009 9:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Building the team around an undersized point guard with limited handles, court vision, defensive desire, maturity, hoops IQ, and overall smarts… is not a bright idea.
How, exactly, is a 6’3" person “undersized” for a point guard? Undersized for a SG, but not PG. Get your letters right! Then we can talk about how capable of a PG or SG or basketball player Monta Ellis is or is not.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 19, 2009 9:52 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm gonna keep going
I’m calling their bluff or Fried’s distortion of what was actually said.
Yet, you’re calling no such bluff/distortion on Tim “shamelessly sensationalist” Kawakami? You can be so much better Atma. You can be so much better.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 19, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I believe Monta’s being tossed around in trade proposals as he should be. If he can be part of a trade for Amare Stoudemire or Chris Bosh this offseason will have been a huge success.
Fried has been around the block a few times, you know. He knows that nobody’s untouchable and I’m sure he’s explained the same to Monta. If Monta’s traded for STAT or Bosh, there better not be much else we’re including with him (i.e. no Biedrins, no Randolph), and we better not be giving those guys $20M/year contracts… if you think Monta & Maggette have terrible contracts, just imagine watching Bosh with a crappy supporting cast because Cohan doesn’t want to dip into the lux tax. I might have to convert myself into a Raptor fan if that happens, ey (I’m practicing my Canadian… just in case).
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 19, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the first I’ve heard of the Warriors actively trying to trade the #7 pick as part of a larger trade package.
You’ve seen plenty of trade rumors involving the #7 and other big pieces around these parts ;-). It would be foolish to think that a team with as many needs as the Warriors wouldn’t be exploring any and all avenues of improving the team.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 19, 2009 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The obvious question from this is of course is- so you guys weren’t on the same page before this get-together? Why?
Backs up my theory of: “Ellis was worried that the Warriors expressing interest in PGs could have meant that the Warriors didn’t want him at PG and the flight confirmed that it was Ellis’ spot to lose and that the Warriors are looking to draft the best player available. If that happens to be a PG and Ellis is good at his job, that PG becomes a valuable trade piece and/or backup PG.”
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 19, 2009 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He said they weren’t meeting with Ellis because he was disgruntled or demanding a trade. It was in the course of interviews with everyone on the team…
This sounds at least plausible and it should be easy to verify for somebody with the resources of TK. I fully expect a follow up article which discusses the other visits Riley/Nelson have made in the last few weeks.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 19, 2009 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’d like to have a little beef. We can always use more size and toughness.
In that case Larry, I’d suggest the pot roast. Just throw it in a crock pot with beer, salt, an pepper.
We don’t really have a gaping hole at any position,
I suppose he means that the Warriors don’t have any holes that are any more gaping than the rest.
so I think we’ll draft the best player available. If it’s a point guard, then it will be a point guard. If it’s a 4, then that’s who we’ll take.
He says the right things… but even I can do that. Now he has to actually go out and pick the BPA instead of falling into the “Well, he’s only slightly worse, but we need a PF!” trap.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 19, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Aren’t you glad there’s no conflict of interest when a Warriors employee is doing the interviewing on their flagship radio station? Even Larry King gives tougher interviews.
You were expecting something different? This isn’t Ralph Nader on the O’Riley factor. Do the Warriors have their agenda? Of course. Does Kawakami? Of course. Could they view that question as “We’re not going to give TK the attention he craves?” Of course. Could it have been a “We don’t want to talk about it because we don’t want the world to know TK is right?” Of course.
What have we learned? TK doesn’t like the Warriors FO, the Warriors FO doesn’t like TK, and the Warriors FO may or may not have promised Monta Ellis that they wouldn’t draft a PG (i.e. we learned nothing we didn’t already)
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 19, 2009 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
come on, don’t lump ralph in with o’reilly.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 19, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This isn’t Ralph Nader on the O’Riley factor.
That’s not a typo. O’Riley would give Nader a tough interview.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 19, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh oops. i thought it said “or”….
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 19, 2009 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is way better
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jun 19, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT
O’Reilly gets a bum rap. He seems like he might be a total d*** off the air, but he does ask tough questions of just about everyone he interviews and while there is obviously a conservative slant to it, its much less biased than any other show of its type (Hannity, Olbermann, Maddow) I’ve actually been really impressed with him lately, he obviously doesn’t like Obama but he doesn’t make every show into a an attempt to bash him endlessly like Hannity does or Olbermann used to with Bush/Cheney.
Thing A
"Well I seriously thought he was just tanned." -Nuck Chorris
by sam23 on Jun 19, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just cant get past him shouting over anyone he disaggrees with and I happen to think Olbermann is a little less biased even though thats not saying much. I dont think you can get real news from either Fox or MSNBC.
Believe it or not NPR is the best source of news I’ve found. Ive actually heard them shut of some ones mic when he was trying to shout over the person he was debating with, and when that person was done, they turned the mic back on and let him have his say. It was amazing how much calmer and concise he was on his side of the argument.
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
by qin on Jun 19, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
political tv thoughts
Yea but he seems like he’s doing much less of the shouting over people lately, no? That was my point, its probably his own fault, but his reputation as an interviewer is so bad that he’s often dismissed and I think he’s quietly become one of the best at his job on TV right now….Olbermann doesn’t do much of that because he doesn’t have guests he disagrees with. Ever. Every single “question” he presents to a guest starts with “Doesn’t this mean….” or “Isn’t this and indication of …..” and then they say “Yes, exactly Keith……” …cut to smug smiling Olbemann and repeat formula. Its slightly less annoying, but I don’t really understand how thats any better than Hannity’s yelling contests. I’m not claiming O’Reilly is great source for news but I think he’s a pretty good interviewer. NPR does do a pretty good job with their debates, they obviously favor one side, but I can’t think of a show that doesn’t…..maybe Meet the Press…sometimes.
Anyone who missed this weeks Daily Show abortion debate between Stewart and Huckabee should go check that out. Their gay marriage debate from a few months ago was also very good. They really should do a larger series of debates like that. I don’t know why Fox doesn’t give Charles Krauthammer his own show, that guy does a fantastic job of expressing a clear argument without ever having to yell over people. Also the
Thing A
"Well I seriously thought he was just tanned." -Nuck Chorris
by sam23 on Jun 19, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will give him a 2nd look
honestly, I stopped tuning in to “Bill – O” a while ago for the reasons stated. If he’s gone back to when he first was on the air I’ll give him a 2nd look.
NPR get’s a bad rap as being leftest but I think that’s mostly due to Fox because they (Fox) only want you to listen to them. They do have some left shows (Travis Smiley annoyed the * out of me) but he no longer has a show
Meet the press also does a good job as well as Hard Ball but it seams he has slanted to the left sense he’s (Chris) is now on MSNBC, he still does a good interview and at least has people from both sides of the isle on to present there case.
I don’t catch the Daily show much but I’ll check that out.
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
by qin on Jun 19, 2009 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea i used to really like Hardball on CNBC, I don’t watch it much any more. Does Fox bash NPR? I haven’t really noticed that, they go after MSNBC a lot but that’s pretty mutual.
Thing A
"Well I seriously thought he was just tanned." -Nuck Chorris
by sam23 on Jun 19, 2009 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know now that they have in earnest lately, but there was a huge right wing push to shut them down or change their format to be more in line with the right. Was even brought to congress and during the last years of Bush the 2nd, there was talk of oversight and they guy chosen was far right. (Forget his name but I’m sure it’s easy to find if I had time).
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
by qin on Jun 19, 2009 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
DFiB: Over-caffeinating on a slow work day? But I agree with everything you said. Now, back to my own cup of joe.
by ffgolden on Jun 19, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both of my bosses are out of the office...
I need to get back to selling my cars, but here I am…
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 19, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good catch
I meant to say SG. Let me correct that. Thanks for point that out.
by Atma Brother ONE on Jun 19, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
6’3" is definitly not undersized for a PG. Especially when compared to Flynn and Lawson and the leagues best Paul.
by Dungeness Crab Dribble on Jun 19, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
honestly...
i’d let monta run the team instead of the PG’s in the draft (cept for rubio :D )..
by placid on Jun 19, 2009 9:55 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Mr. Tim and AB1
Since you are so enthralled with that load of bull that Tim serves up, I think you, AB1, should keep score on how much of it ever comes to pass. No one takes Pete Vescey, so how long is it going to take with this guy. If you are journalist, you have to name a source every now. Anonymous sources, if he has such, always have their own agenda. More and more, I think we should start calling it sports urinalism. I mean I don’t really get the point of keeping all the negativism going between seasons. What’s the campaign here? What is it that Mr. Tim wants to happen? That would be a good thing to ask him. I mean does he want to write for The Washington Post, is that what he wants to happen. Well, he will have to wait on Mike Wise who is a guy with a hell of a lot more integrity. Does he want everyone associated with the Warriors management team fired? Is that it? I stopped reading him but I have to sample his bile here on other rumor mills who pick up Tim’s crap. Pretty soon, I am going to have to shut you all down. And he’s not like Howard Cossell, who was irritating but who occasionally said something enlightenment. This guy is the court jester or is it just the court jerk.
by Marques8 on Jun 19, 2009 11:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
GOD!
I swear if Riley… i mean the new CC puppet screws this up I’m going to pissed. Obviously the warriors are LACKING many things, a few being team chemistry, Defense and a true PG play maker. Unless we get this kick ass trade deal for a big name with numbers i would draft the best PG available or go with Jordan Hill. This team needs a facilitator to round up the troops. Stack Jack was doing the best he could be he should be the 3rd best player on the team.
Crossing Fingers
We need something to turn to the upside in the bay area, after a horrible season, 49ers crappy year, and i wont even speak of the Giants and Sharks…..
Gotta love the Bay Area drama ;)
by JayFerg on Jun 19, 2009 11:04 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Sharks had a crappy year too? I thought they had the best record in hockey.
by aBulldog on Jun 19, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the Giants are fighting for the wild card spot
well they just lost 3 in a row but still.
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
by qin on Jun 19, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea
I have a feeling the Giants are going to toy with the Wild card spot for a bit, then let us all down unless they make some sort of move… i dont know if they are willing to make a risk to get a bat. It will be sad having to wait another year.
Gotta love the Bay Area drama ;)
by JayFerg on Jun 19, 2009 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
seams like its always a late season drop off with them
but hey were warriors fans, at least can root for something
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
by qin on Jun 19, 2009 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Giants need a bat or else they won’t make the playoffs.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 19, 2009 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sharks
Um, great season, big ass let down once again in the first round…
Gotta love the Bay Area drama ;)
by JayFerg on Jun 19, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it wasn’t even the second round this year.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 19, 2009 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't even remind me
Oakland Raiders Fan
Golden State Warriors Fan
San Francisco Giants Fan
San Jose Sharks Fan
MMA Fan
USC Trojan Fan
by i love sports101 on Jun 19, 2009 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, now your just pushing buttons for the fun of it.
congrads.
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
by qin on Jun 19, 2009 11:30 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I noticed that
the subjects gets changed a lot in every blog!!! lol
Oakland Raiders Fan
Golden State Warriors Fan
San Francisco Giants Fan
San Jose Sharks Fan
MMA Fan
USC Trojan Fan
by i love sports101 on Jun 19, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
good news/bad news
good news: there’s almost nothing here to suggest or provide any real tangible evidence that there’s much of anything behind the drama that’s being constructed around the Ellis meeting and it’s probably column fill and blog chaff
bad news: while Nelson said Hill would not fall past the Warriors at #7 and Riley said he wants more beef, Nelson is the consumate BS artist around the draft and GSW is reportedly looking to deal the #7 pick so Hill may not be our guy after all.
good news: Reading Riley’s comment, we’re just going to take the BPA either way – which is the safe thing to say and doesn’t say much at the same time about who that’d be, and is the right move not to tip our hand now anyway …
reality: EVERY team not named the Clippers is floating that they might move up or down, so most of this doesn’t mean much
by hardcore on Jun 19, 2009 11:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Your conduct here is pretty embarrassing, Atma. One must always be cautious with TK, and yet your just grab his coat tails down the path of irresponsibility.
Prospective parent of new pick, Zack Wheeler. Projectable Righty stolen from the braves. Of course, I stalk my son's myspace: http://www.myspace.com/zackwheelerbaseball
"Obviously I’m not doing things like going toe-to-toe with a ninja. Find me a ninja, for one."--Brian Wilson
by haverecords on Jun 19, 2009 11:47 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
some good comments from monta
i liked what i heard in terms of spreading the ball around and finding his teammates shots. for such a talented scorer, the hard part will be for monta to scale back his shots and find the matchups to exploit, and get his teammates the points.
will monta be able to take on a pass-first PG role on this team?? that’s a key question this offseason and going forward. and if he CAN then it drastically increases the Dubs chances of winning games. i’m more of a believer after listening to that KNBR interview. Man it would be awesome to just have that PG spot solid and locked down for years….
one factor of note is monta’s ability (and motivation) to prove people wrong. if he’s hearing the calls that he can’t be a true PG, hopefully his instinct and desire are to squash those ideas….just like proving critics wrong who talked about his size and draft position.
big summer for gsw!!
by Brickowski BOOM on Jun 19, 2009 11:55 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
A better question
Does Monta need to develop into a pass first PG? I don’t think so, at least not this year. There’s really no point in becoming a pass first anything when you are the best scorer on your team. Ball movement is key to this team, that is something that needs to stay in the minds of all of our players though, not just Monta. Right now Monta is our best scorer, so if he has a good shot he should take it, he is the best shooter(from inside the 3pt line) on the team. I would not describe Baron Davis as a pass first PG, though we all thought he was the perfect pg for this team. Baron just knows how to read the game, although he does take some pretty atrocious shots. Monta is a better shooter and scorer than Baron though. He’s more efficient on offense.
All Monta has to do is learn when it is appropriate to pass and when it is appropriate to shoot, it seems he may already know that. Being that Monta has never been one of our Dubs who takes shots that make us cringe, I dont think he’ll have any problem becoming a PG on this team. He just has to understand when it is time to turn over the scoring to Jack or Corey or whoever is hot.
This all makes me very confident that Monta will be a very good PG for this team.
by myk on Jun 19, 2009 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How often does an NBA player change his game?
Almost never. I am not a fan of the let’s make Monta a PG movement. It isnt his natural position, so let’s just go another route now instead of gambling.
Iverson was always better at the 2, Monta will always be better as a 2 as well. That craetes problems because of their size, but Monta doesnt have to take 40 shots to make an impact like Iverson.
by warriorsvictim on Jun 19, 2009 11:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I’m so tired of this “Monta as a pg” talk. I’m not buying it.
by Golden Boy on Jun 19, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nellie disagrees with you that Monta will always be better as a 2.
As long as you’re citing one player sample sizes (i.e. Iverson), check out Billups’ assist rates his first few seasons. Monta’s are slightly better. (And his overall numbers are off-charts better).
I’m not convinced Monta has the court vision and leadership skills to be a great NBA PG, but I’m willing to let him give it a serious try over the course of a full training camp and season. It’s not like we have a lot of other, better options. The reward (having our own Devin Harris under contract for the next four seasons) is well worth the risk (er… not having our own Devin Harris under contract for the next four seasons).
Monta
Jack
Buike
Randolph
Biedrins
Book it.
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Jun 19, 2009 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am okay with Monta playing PG
If Marco Bellinelli is the SG and Sjax is SF. Monta can guard the other team’s PG and Marco can initiate the fast break and half court offense.
In Marco I trust.
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Jun 19, 2009 12:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Monta at the 1
Bellinelli at the 2
Jax at the 3
Does not exactly make the rest of the league cringe with fear.
Monta at the 1
Jax at the 2
Quality player to be named later at the 3
Thats a little better.
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
by qin on Jun 19, 2009 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Monte PG
Well think about it this way. Monte has this year to prove that he is capable of being a good PG. Even if the Warriors draft a PG, that player wont start for a year or 2 anyhow.
So i agree with you qin, If we can get a great player at 3 or 4, this team will do something big this coming season. and if the Monte Ellis experiment at PG Fails, well the drafted PG can slide in there or we trade for one…. assuming Riley does the right thing and does not drag things on like Sabean with the Giants lol.
Gotta love the Bay Area drama ;)
by JayFerg on Jun 19, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree with you qin
It’s not about inducing fear. It’s about putting together the best starting lineup for the team to succeed. I’ve seen enough of Marco to know that he’s a capable play maker. I think Jax’s best position is at the 3. What quality player to be named do you have in mind?
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Jun 19, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The best starting lineup should have the other team a little woried dont you think?
And I did type a little in haste, it should have read
Monta at the 1
Jax OR Marco at the 2
at the 3 ?, that I think is our weakest position, do we get one via draft or trade? idk
And this of course is assuming Monta works out at the 1
I just see the three of them on the floor at the same time as being a defensive liability as well as being confused and stagnate on offense.
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
by qin on Jun 19, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
Interesting how you think the 3 is the weakest position. I think it’s a position we don’t really need to worry too much about. Jax starting and Mags backing up. Seems decent enough for me.
Presuming we make no trades, I see this as our rotation (not on a nightly basis…10 man rotation with Nellie…are you kidding me?):
Monta/Crawford
Marco/Morrow
Jax/Mags
Randolph/Wright
Beans/Turiaf
Also, I don’t think Monta/Marco backcourt is that big of a defensive liability. Marco showed a lot of defensive effort last year, and I am a hard believer that 90% of defense is effort. Okay, so I made up the percentage, but seriously, if you try at defense, you usually are effective.
That being said, your point is well taken. I think there will be a lot of nights where Jax takes on the likes of Kobe or LeBron (i.e. the star of the other team). There will be nights where the Warriors will play a lot of zone. There will also be nights where the starting lineup is only there for the first 4 mins and then adjustments will be made.
My Monta/Marco/Jax/Randolph/Beans lineup is just meant as a foundation of good team basketball.
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Jun 19, 2009 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I seem to have totally forgotten about Azubuike
Which kind of screws up everything. Damn it!
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Jun 19, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade Azubuike
And keep Morrow and Marco. Azubuike is more valuable on a playoff contender.
That’s my thinking, at least.
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Jun 19, 2009 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
fwiw, Nelson said his 1-2 next year would be Ellis and Jax, though anything’s possible … including a trade (if another team was willing to take Crawford, they could have their pick of Marco, Morrow, or KAz?! JayFerg’s probably right above).
but if not, then add a drafted player somewhere behind:
Monta/Crawford
Jax/Marco or Morrow
KAz or Mags
Randolph/Wright
Beans/Turiaf
unless Marco comes in and completely dominates the other guards in training camp, it’d be difficult to start him – he’ll be competing for rotation minutes
by hardcore on Jun 19, 2009 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats kinda what I was going by
with Monta at the 1 and Jax at the 2
I also like Morrow and Buki but again not on the floor at the same time, having a dead eye from the three is key.
And if Buki is out starting 3 then yeah, we really need a upgrade at the position.
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
by qin on Jun 19, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looking for a good appraisal of Nelson's drafting, and an interesting analysis of what to expect THIS year?
by hardcore on Jun 19, 2009 12:25 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
good read
so it depends on what the perceived “need” is, and on this team thats a lot.
Should be interesting.
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
by qin on Jun 19, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ya, having poured & drunk so much of the bpa koolaid myself I’d never stopped to think whether Nelson operated that way – A.L.‘s analysis really forced me to re-evaluate (and grow to appreciate even more) Nelson’s drafting acumen → reason to be hopeful this week
by hardcore on Jun 19, 2009 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks for posting the link, hardcore
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Jun 19, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
fan post this, hardcore
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawk on Jun 19, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
when did you become a mod? ;-) seriously, no one ever looks at fanposts, but I will just for you!
by hardcore on Jun 19, 2009 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
there will be no changes to our starting lineup next season...
pg: ellis
sg: jackson
sf: buki/maggs
pf: randolph/wright
c: andris
unless we somehow dump maggs or crawford in a draft trade to get a starter, i see no changes being made (especially to our PG/PF/C positions).
people need to give ellis a chance, one whole season, to see how he runs the team. i, personally, think he will step up to the challenge but only time will tell.
like ive said before, every off season (other than his injury) ellis has proven to dramatically improve his game (being the most improved player and a runner up two years in a row) and out of everyone on our team he would probably have the highest odds of being able to do so again.
give the guy a chance. these TK rumors diff reporting agencies/websites/papers keep spreading disgust me. it all seems like a bad game of ‘telephone’. plz stop perpetuating the rumors on this site other than maybe a fan post!!
about the draft, i hope we draft jennings/holiday….OR draft hill in order to package him with maggs/crawford for an expiring contract + late draft pick
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawk on Jun 19, 2009 12:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i like the way you think
jennings>hill>derozan>holiday>flynn (not necessarily in order of skill but rather who i think we would benefit most from)
JENNINGS FTW!!!! i see great things in this kid’s future
by tkm9112 on Jun 19, 2009 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PG Draft
Im conflicted between 2 PG’s.
I love Jennings Potential, i wouldnt be mad if he was drafted but its just scarry to think that he might not turn out what everyone thinks he will be. Again, Great risk comes great rewards, also great let downs…. and we had to many let downs.
I love Flynn, dont ask why but i think we will turn out to be a great facilitator.
If we dont get those two, Hill would be a great pick.
Gotta love the Bay Area drama ;)
by JayFerg on Jun 19, 2009 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
starting line up looks about right baring a trade
and we still look awful weak at the 3
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
by qin on Jun 19, 2009 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
however, i believe this is the year that rudolph makes his transition to the three (if anyone read the uber-glorifying article in the Chronicle the other day he seems to be developing his body and game for the small forward position- and DAMN do i believe he will thrive at it) allowing jack to remain at the two with ellis at 1 with jennings and watson gettin there time in, so when we figure out whether or not ellis’ future remains in oakland (and whether or not he’ll be a point guard) we have a MORE than solid option with jennings to take his place with cj as the ever reliable backup. now here’s to hoping that ellis allows us to net CB4!!!!
jennings
jackson
randolph
bosh
biedrins
at LEAST a first round team donchya think?
by tkm9112 on Jun 19, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i totally agree
we need to make a move to get a 3….
if we can somehow get either: hedo, odom, artest, wallace or prince…we’d be very solid at every spot (without losing andris/ellis/randolph)
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawk on Jun 19, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
word
but out of those 5 who would be the best bets for our team?
by tkm9112 on Jun 19, 2009 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
odom or prince
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawk on Jun 19, 2009 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
probably prince tho
cuz hes younger
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawk on Jun 19, 2009 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and wouldn’t require a long term commitment.
Thing A
"Well I seriously thought he was just tanned." -Nuck Chorris
by sam23 on Jun 19, 2009 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
imagine...
ellis – jennings
jack – morrow
prince – buki
randolph – wright
andris – turiaf
wow…such depth…and a SICK starting lineup
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawk on Jun 19, 2009 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and we'd be super young
super talented….and growing into a championship contending team over time
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawk on Jun 19, 2009 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d rather imagine Ty Lawson or Stephen Curry at backup PG there
Thing A
"Well I seriously thought he was just tanned." -Nuck Chorris
by sam23 on Jun 19, 2009 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ew lawson
curry would be okay tho….but i’m liking jennings more, more of a pass first PG
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawk on Jun 19, 2009 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ew Lawson? why?
Thing A
"Well I seriously thought he was just tanned." -Nuck Chorris
by sam23 on Jun 19, 2009 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
as great as lawson is,
pretty much no matter what happens there will be at least 2 point guards that are better than him at the 7
by tkm9112 on Jun 19, 2009 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what ^ said
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawk on Jun 20, 2009 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i am not at all sure that that is the case. if rubio is off the board (pretty much a given), there’s really no one that i’m particularly confident will be better. of course, when you’re rolling that many dice, some of them are probably going to be good. i just don’t know who it would be, especially considering i’d guess that 3 point guards are off the board by the time we draft. probably rubio, curry and evans will be off the board, but evans could easily be switched for flynn or holiday or jennings.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 20, 2009 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
...
holiday, jennings, rubio, curry, evans are all better than lawson imo….and if they are all gone, that means hill will still be around and w ecan use him for a trading chip…not to mention there are many other BPA: derozen, clark
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawk on Jun 20, 2009 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
why the opposition to lawson. he was incredible last year, a great shooter, leader, didn’t turn the ball over, really quick; i just don’t see why people are so down on him.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 20, 2009 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he wouldnt be as good
on a non dominant team.
all the combine and teamworkout stuff dont like him in the 1on1 2on2 3on3 workouts…
when i watched him…i wasnt that impressed…really dont think he coulda done nearly as well on any other team
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawk on Jun 20, 2009 12:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hadn’t heard about his combine scrimmages. do they do 5v5 at all?
i guess it’s all stuff to think about, but i really liked him at unc and his shooting numbers were ridiculous. almost 50 percent from 3 is hard to argue with and he takes care of the ball really well and has shown the ability to lead a team. i think you put more stock in combine drills than me, but how he does there is definitely something to keep in mind.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 20, 2009 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
they arent allowed to do 5on5
league regulations 3on3 is the most
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawk on Jun 20, 2009 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that’s odd. i wonder why they made that rule.
and on combines: i don’t disagree with you, i just wonder about how they make the decisions about who out performed who and where the info is coming from. if it’s something that i can’t see and don’t fully understand the process, it’s hard for me form opinions based on them. it’s not that i don’t trust them, so much as i lack the understanding to form opinions based on them.
they’re certainly relevant; i was just pointing out a difference in how we make our judgments of players, pre-draft.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 20, 2009 12:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree
that its hard to understand a process where all the info is not given
but really the biggest thing i dont like about lawson is just that i dont see a star when i watch him play….i see a good backup pg in the long run….maybe derek fisher…
either way i’d rather take a gamble on people that look like they can become stars in the league…
also, i just felt like, when id watch him play, that he was mostly being carried by his team in the sense that he’d have better shots because of his team…his team would be in better position for passes….his team would do ‘x’ so ‘y’ would be easier for him to do…etc
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawk on Jun 20, 2009 1:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but Lawson was a HUGE reason why that UNC team was a dominant team. Anybody who watched them play when he was out would tell you he was probably the most important piece of that team. I don’t like the “He played with a bunch of other good players” argument all that much, it doesn’t make much sense to me. Going into the year I was down on Lawson as an NBA player because I wasn’t sure about his decision making and he wasn’t a very good shooter, He improved dramatically in both areas. I don’t see how anyone can really argue that Flynn, Evans, and Jennings have more upside. Its absurd that Lawson’s outstanding college career is working against him.
Thing A
"Well I seriously thought he was just tanned." -Nuck Chorris
by sam23 on Jun 20, 2009 2:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suspect I watched more of Lawson than anyone else on this board over the last three years. He had a very good team around him, a very good team that struggled without him.
by jae on Jun 20, 2009 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
people forget that when lawson was hurt leading up to the tourney, it was shaky to say that they would have even made it to the final four and a lot of people had them out after the sweet 16. lawson coming back took them from “borderline final four team if everything goes right” to national champs.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 20, 2009 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
combine drills for me mean a lot
since they are going against similar or better players…and cant be carried by others.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawk on Jun 20, 2009 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
From what I’ve been able to pull, combine numbers are not as good predictors of future success than what someone has done over the course of a college career.
And I’m not sure what the combine problems were. His height? Everyone knew that already. His strength? Nope. Not that. He was stronger than the other point guards. His speed? Nope. Faster than them too. Must be the 3-on-3 drills, a format that may or may not tell us anything given that basketball is a 5-on5 game.
by jae on Jun 20, 2009 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry
i mean more of the 1on1 2on2 and 3on3 drills than the measurements
but i think its more of an indicator than college since you cant be carried by ur team…and you have to show what you can do against people of equal or greater skill
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawk on Jun 20, 2009 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is this ATMA guy even a fan?
Everything is so negative, always. Nothing is ever good for the Warriors in his mind……hey our star player and the coach/management are on the same page, for a change and thats a terrible thing? The draft is a time to be positive and look forward to especially for a franchise like ours, its one thing to be a realist its another to be a pessimist.
by pbra17 on Jun 19, 2009 1:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
ATMA
Well, he gets a rise out of us (the fans) and creates good conversation. So in the end does it matter who ATMA is? no. No matter what his take on things are, we will always disagree or agree and post what we think.
Gotta love the Bay Area drama ;)
by JayFerg on Jun 19, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, I’m pretty sure Atma is a fan.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 19, 2009 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
there was that ridiculous “atma is a knicks fan!” post last summer, where the poster spent way too much time digging for some photo of AB1 in a knicks jersey and wrote an unnecessarily long, nasty post about him. to the mods credit, they left it up for long enough to show everyone how uncalled for the post was and just let the poster embarrass him/herself. i have no idea why that happened, outside of something like “AB1 says things i disagree with! he’s a fake fan and a bad person!” goes to show what happens when you take your love of the warriors a bit too far.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 19, 2009 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
yea
I think Atma’s crazy man-crush on Kawakami is pretty ridiculous, but not as ridiculous as all the “Atma isn’t a REAL fan talk.” This franchise is not very good and being a fan doesn’t require you to be absurdly optimistic.
Thing A
"Well I seriously thought he was just tanned." -Nuck Chorris
by sam23 on Jun 19, 2009 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i see it more like...
ellis/rocky or (jennings)
jackson/morrow
buki/maggs
randolph/wright
beans/ronnie
by Fi7ipin0ch3f on Jun 19, 2009 1:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Buike a starter..OMG
Monta as he puts it, “I will always be a Warriors”. WTF english class was he in at Lanier HS? That line makes me bust up every time I listen to it. He was saying the same thing yesterday on KNBR. “I will always be a Warriors”. Point is, Monta is going no where.
If Buike is our starting SF, then once again the Dubs will be watching teams like Atlanta, New Jersey and Philadelphia in the playoffs. Buike is a great role player off the bench for bursts of energy and some points. Is he a NBA starter? Hell no. Just the tip of the iceberg for the problems the Dubs have…
by gabezgsw on Jun 19, 2009 3:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
WTF english class was he in at Lanier HS?
His mind was probably elsewhere.
Buike is a great role player off the bench for bursts of energy and some points. Is he a NBA starter? Hell no.
Azubuike doesn’t have to start if the Warriors take a point guard and let him play right away with the young squad. That won’t happen, however. Besides, I’m willing to bet Maggette will play the bulk of the minutes.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 19, 2009 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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