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Chris Bosh Movement

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

Warriors Get: Chris Bosh

Raptors Get: Corey Maggette, Andris Biedrins, and the seventh overall pick


 

Star-divide

 

Why the Warriors would do it:

This move would instantly eliminate the Warriors long time need for a legitimate power foward/center. Bosh is an ideal five for the Warriors, and can easily play a four as well. Offensively, he is explosive and has the ability to score on the low and high post. He would fit in well with Ellis and Randolph as one of the most athletic lineups in basketball. Defensively, he is a solid player, and can make up for the loss of Andris Biedris on the glass. Bosh still has room for improvement, as he is only twenty-five, but still remains one of the best players in the NBA.

Why the Raptors would do it:

Chris Bosh is almost certainly gone in 2010, and it would be foolish for the Raptors to not take advantage of his terrific value. Unless the Raptors suddenly become a championship contender, they need to rebuild for the future. The addition of Biedrins will add a young athletic center, who will only get better. The seventh pick, which will complement the Raptors ninth pick, will allow them to add two quality prospects or opens the oppertunity for them to become prime contenters to move up in the draft. Corey Maggette will add a consist scorer to the lineup, who can go for twenty-five plus on any given night.

Why the Warriors wouldn't do it:

Losing two very good player and a high rated rookie for one player is always a tough pill to swallow, reguardless of how good he is. Andris is one of the brightest stars in the Warriors, and seven-footers with his speed do not come around too oftten. Maggettee brings balance offensively, and can score from almost anywhere on the court. Losing a guy like him will hurt the Warriors, especially in situations where their offense is struggling. Ultimately, the biggest risk of performing this transaction is losing Chris Bosh. A conflct in the lockerroom or another losing season could lead to Bosh testing the 2010 market, which will be one of the best player markets in NBA history, and ruining the trade for the Warriors.

Why the Raptors wouldn't do it:

It's always tough to commit to two players long term. Maggette and Biedrins are both under large contracts for five more years and may create more pressure on the ownership than what they want.

 

 

Potential Starting lineup:

PG- Monta Ellis
SG- Kelenna Azubuike
SF- Stephen Jackson
PF- Anthony Randolph
C- Chris Bosh

 

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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we wouldnt need to throw in the 7th pick...

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawk on Jun 2, 2009 10:58 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think we might have to, or at least a swap of picks.

Thing A

by sam23 on Jun 3, 2009 12:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

im gonna say no..

honest to got i dont want another big who cant play good D

bosh is great offensively

but lets face it hes another jump shooting big man

ill take AR and AB

by gswfan2 on Jun 2, 2009 11:07 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Totally agree...

Bosh is not the answer for this team. He’s a good player, but trading away AB and our first rounder for a guy that will leave after 1 year is insane. Even if he decided to sign an extension, we would have a huge hole at the center and point guard positions. I’m not convinced Bosh can man the 5 for us.

by Sharunas Marchulenis on Jun 2, 2009 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is 0% chance that any NBA team would trade away legit talent for Bosh without him signing an extension with that team as part of the agreement. 0%

"We Deserve"

by YaHeard on Jun 2, 2009 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

well… mike dunleavy is an nba gm.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 2, 2009 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I never said anthony randolph. Also, he is a solid defender and rebounds. Plus, he can play 4 when we find a real center.

According to the comminsioner of the nfl, 104 people retired last year. 7 due to age, and the rest because of Patrick Willis

by montasmob69 on Jun 2, 2009 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

a real center…. like Andris Biedrins? …the best center we’ve had in a loooooooong time.

Thing A

by sam23 on Jun 3, 2009 12:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

I can’t figure out why people keep seeing him as our savior. What has he done? And you cant say it’s cause he’s been on a bad time. Well you can, but then the Warriors aren’t so hot either….

by 123707THIZZ on Jun 3, 2009 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

the one thing he could bring is credibility to the franchise (provided we are able to extend him). he’s at least a fringe all-star (who was our last all-star?) and other players in the NBA want to play with him (only applies as a tiebreaker when the money is the same). he would also make the team a more desirable place for a top level coach to come in (provided Nellie doesn’t get extended again in the next 2 yrs).

by the evil monkey on Jun 3, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Beyond Golden State of Design... and than some!
http://www.tonypsd.blogspot.com/

by Tony.psd on Jun 4, 2009 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

prerequisites for trade posts should include running them by the other team's forum first.

Those are the ones I like. Whether or not the other team’s fans think it is a good idea it is always best to get their perspective.

Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!

by Nuck Chorris on Jun 2, 2009 11:10 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

that’d be pretty cool. i’d be down for at least requiring that trade posts be made on the forums of each team involved.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 2, 2009 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

then link it in the proposal here.

Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!

by Nuck Chorris on Jun 2, 2009 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

the raps don’t have an sb nation blog, unfortunately.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 2, 2009 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Would Bosh stay?

Chris Bosh will basically pick where he wants to go this offseason. No team is going to give up much value for him unless he agrees to a new deal before the trade is completed. I’m not sure how excited Bosh would be to join a team that was in such disarray, especially over a team like the Heat or an up-and-coming squad like the Thunder.

A deal that might have a shot (a small one but a shot nonetheless) is #7, Wright, Maggette or Jackson and Crawford for Amar’e and the #14. It might only be a rental but the Warriors dump two bad contracts in the deal. They could still get a talented player at 14 and who knows, maybe Amar’e likes Nellieball and decides he wants to stay. Worst case scenario, the Warriors dump 21 million and have some space to go after someone (or take back a salary in a trade) in 2010.

I was also thinking that adding a guy like Amar’e could get Jason Kidd to agree to come home, even on a one year deal. Ellis, Kidd, Maggette or Jackson, Amar’e, and Biedrins would be an interesting squad.

I just don’t know if Phoenix would be willing to take back those contracts, even for Wright and a better pick. (Although there’s a rumor of Shaq for Deng and filler so who knows what Steve Kerr is thinking)

Would Warriors fans be willing to roll the dice on Amar’e? How much would you give up in order to dump 20 million in contracts/cap space?

Ranking the Ten Worst Moves of the 2008 Offseason @ www.soulhonky.com

by SoulHonky on Jun 2, 2009 11:46 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

i’d take the amare deal in a heartbeat. i’d be shocked if phoenix would do it, but as a warriors fan, there’s no way you could turn that deal down, rental or no. think of the cap space!

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 2, 2009 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yea I would trade that package for either Amare or Bosh/Banks, but I doubt either the Raptors or Suns would be all that interested.

Thing A

by sam23 on Jun 3, 2009 12:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What if you didn't get the #14 back?

That might tilt the scales too far into Phoenix’s favor.

I agree that Phoenix doesn’t take back those contracts but when I heard they were talking about taking Deng’s contract, I thought anything might be possible. Also, I’m not sure what kind of offers they get for Amar’e. If Jamison and the #5 is the present rumored price, I think the Warriors could trump that deal.

Ranking the Ten Worst Moves of the 2008 Offseason @ www.soulhonky.com

by SoulHonky on Jun 3, 2009 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Remember

Phoenix is the team that sells their draft picks. You’d be making them keep the #14 rather than giving them the #14. Though, they could easily turn around and sell that for cash.

#7, Wright, Maggette or Jackson, Crawford, and $3M for Amar’e and the #14. Though, that would require Crawford formally not opting out before the draft, and probably two separate trades (on for the players, the other cash for pick).

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
R Dizzle = Wannabe AB1

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 3, 2009 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

GIVE IT UP!

We’re giving up way too much to get Bosh. And even if we DO get Bosh, he’s gone once his contract’s done with. I think we’re better off with AB and AR. I’d rather have AB/AR for a few years rather than have Bosh for one year.

WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...

by JustSomeName on Jun 3, 2009 11:27 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

i drafted a biedrins-amare-monta team on 2k9 the other day…it’s pretty ridiculous (granted i got rudy and thad too). warriors could probably still nab terrence williams if he falls. on the other hand, chad ford’s newest mock draft has the top 5 picks being blake, dream, rubio, holiday, harden, and derozan fills a bigger need for the t’wolves than does jordan hill, so maybe the warriors could grab him on draft night if they keep the 7? then again odds are that jordan won’t be as good as amare.

i’d definitely trade the pick and maggs/jack, craw and wright for amare.

by dubsfan510 on Jun 3, 2009 11:32 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

do not call thabeet “dream”. ever. he has done nothing to warrant handing him hakeem olajuwon’s nickname.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 3, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

I like Thabeet…..but that’s basically like comparing Harden or DeRozan to MJ.

Thing A

by sam23 on Jun 3, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

not even comparing, it’s nickname theft. it’d be like calling jrue holiday “the glove”. for some reason, reusing nicknames is something i find very irritating, especially when it involves such a great player like hakeem. how hard is it to come up with a new nickname? come on people, let’s get creative, here.

(side note: the “first letter of the first name, first syllable of the last name” garbage needs to stop, too. it’s just lazy.)

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 3, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

na, KAz is a great example …

by hardcore on Jun 3, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yea I was gonna say it would be like calling Harden or DeRozan “Air,” but that nickname has been stolen so many times already (Air Canada, Air France) that it has already been devalued and didn’t make for a very good example. I agree about the first letter of first name, first syllable of the last name stuff, it worked for the first few guys (T-Mac, A-Rod), but when it became the default nickname for 50% of professional athletes and 90% of frat boys and wannabe frat boys around the country it lost all value.

Thing A

by sam23 on Jun 3, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Sam, more and more you make me wonder how I ever disagreed with you about anything. (No, don’t remind me. It will ruin my moment.)

by jae on Jun 3, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

“air” is somewhat okay with me as long as it ends up as a real airline. then it sounds a little less related to “air jordan”. it’s still not good, and if they EVER refer to mickael piertrus as “his airness” i reserve the right to change my mind, but tentatively, i’m okay with airlines as not really a jordan ripoff. even though it sort of is.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 3, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yea I can see that….but every time I hear Air France I think of how its such a rip off of Air Canada. Pietrus is a great athlete, but I don’t know if it makes sense to compare him to the Toronto version of Vince Carter. And I figure at least half of the Air Canada nickname came from all the “bald, black, swingman from UNC who can jump out of the gym” comparisons Vince was getting his first couple years in the league. Air Canada and Air France certainly aren’t the worst nicknames in the world, but as a proud worshiper from the church of Jordan they get under my skin just a little.

Thing A

by sam23 on Jun 3, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

you can’t be an nba fan and not be a proud worshipper from the church of jordan.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 3, 2009 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

(side note: the "first letter of the first name, first syllable of the last name" garbage needs to stop, too. it’s just lazy.)

+1

I have considerably less problem with it when it produces a pronounceable word that sounds like a nick-name (e.g. KAz), but the JWill, JRich, CWebb madness must end.

No, really. It must.

by jae on Jun 3, 2009 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

BeRight is ok then?

LeBron James? I'm the only Ty Crane.

by misterjennings on Jun 3, 2009 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

as must S-Jax and C-Magg. Especially when there are perfectly acceptable alternatives in Captain Jack (was always a bit hokey and now losing a bit of its luster, but still not terrible) and Bad Porn.

Thing A

by sam23 on Jun 3, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I reserve the right to keep using "KLove"

I like to pronounce it like KFed as opposed to glove.

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
R Dizzle = Wannabe AB1

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 4, 2009 6:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Toronto to keep Bosh

According to realgm, Toronto is planning on keeping Bosh and building around him:

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/59567/20090603/plan_is_to_improve_raptors_not_deal_bosh/

If this is true, and I presume it it, it sucks for us. There is just no way we will ever get a team to compete in the West in the next few years. We just don’t have the one key player to make that happen and probably no chance of getting one. Should we start our tanking now or wait until Nov?

We Believe We Were Deceived

by commish on Jun 3, 2009 12:49 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Real GM? Ya I beleive them.

This isamposturing by Torontos GM to increase Bosh’s Value. He can be had, but I am not sold on him. Rather have Amare.

by dungeness crabdribble on Jun 3, 2009 1:25 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Exactly. I like how the idea to surround Bosh with better players is treated like a new direction.

I mean, what was his initial plan? Add mediocre players to the roster?

Ranking the Ten Worst Moves of the 2008 Offseason @ www.soulhonky.com

by SoulHonky on Jun 3, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Legitimate long-time need for a PF/C?

We have a fine center. And it looks like we have a fine power forward.

What we don’t have is a dominant inside player. But we don’t have a dominant player, period.

I mean if we had LeBron instead of Mags, are we any worse than the Cavs from a talent perspective?

by Ronaldinho on Jun 3, 2009 2:19 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

We have WAY more talent than Clevelend

The Cavs have Lebron (huge star), Mo Williams (good player, NOT an All-Star despite the weirdness this year), and a bunch of decent role players. That’s it. The Warriors have way more talent, with the glaring exception of lacking a true star. Cavs don’t even have any young players to be excited about (unless you think Delonte West is going to get MUCH better, which I doubt, though I like his game for the most part). When Lebron leaves for NY the Warriors will still be in good (hopefully better) shape. The Cavs will not.

by Neon on Jun 3, 2009 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

meh, I’d say Varejao, West and maybe Big Z are better than “decent role players.” They don’t put up a ton of points but I think they contribute a lot more than most the guys people think of as “role players.” But, yea I think we have more talent than them if you subtract LeBron. We also have more talent than the Magic minus Dwight and maybe even the Lakers minus Kobe (that one is pretty debatable) Just goes to show how important those guys are.

Thing A

by sam23 on Jun 3, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with everything you said there, and I actually think, in terms of talent, we’d be considerably better than the current Cavs if we had a LeBron clone instead of Maggette,….. but are you saying Bosh is or is not a dominant player?

Thing A

by sam23 on Jun 3, 2009 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I do not think Bosh is a dominant player

Merely look at Toronto’s record with him.

by Ronaldinho on Jun 4, 2009 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What about KG in Minnesota?

"We Deserve"

by YaHeard on Jun 4, 2009 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bosh is no KG

But you have a good point. You replace KG with Bosh and Boston goes to the ECFs twice in a row (cuz Bosh wouldn’t have been injured this year), losing to LeBron each time.

Why do I believe this? I don’t know. I highly doubt Bosh would have had the same effect KG did. We’ll see if Bosh can pull a KG on his next team. Though, if he gets paired with LeBron, all we’ll find out is that he’s better than Big Z and Andy V… as if we didn’t already know that.

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
R Dizzle = Wannabe AB1

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 5, 2009 7:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Per minute, Bosh has never been as individually productive as Garnett has been, even in this year when he has quite clearly started to decline. And though he has many productive years ahead of him, I wouldn’t expect real significant improvement from Bosh. What he is is a very good basketball player, one who it is ridiculously difficult to upgrade beyond, but not the very, very elite. Still, I think he could have improved Boston this year if only because he can play more minutes at this point than Garnett can.

by jae on Jun 5, 2009 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thus "ECFs twice in a row"

Once in 07-08, once in 08-09.

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
R Dizzle = Wannabe AB1

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 5, 2009 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If it wasn't clear in my previous posts...

If the Celtics replaced KG with Bosh, they’d have zero championships and the NBA would be enjoying their second consecutive “Kobe! LeBron! It’s the NBA championships!”

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
R Dizzle = Wannabe AB1

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 5, 2009 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

for the record

I don’t think Bosh is as good as KG.

I’m just saying you can’t say Bosh is bad because the Raptors are bad. KG with Minny was just an example of a good big man on a very bad team, a situation similar to Bosh’s.

"We Deserve"

by YaHeard on Jun 5, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But make the comparison:

Bosh’s first six years: Toronto wins: 33, 33, 27, 47, 41, 33
KGs’s first six years: Minn wins: 26, 40, 45, 25, 50, 47.

And in that year when they won 25 games? KG only played half the season.

In other words, this comparison is very favorable to KG – after their rookie years (and remember, Bosh had a year of college ball, so was not as physically undeveloped as KG as a rookie) KG’s teams were consistently average-to-good, whereas Bosh’s have been poor-to-average, with only one team maybe being good.

by Ronaldinho on Jun 5, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Chris Bosh cant, and will never play Center

ESPECIALLY in the Western Conference.

by sjboy on Jun 3, 2009 4:35 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Agreed, not without a "Hi I'm Tim Duncan and I play PF" kind of player to pair him with.

By the way, Duncan going to the all stars as a PF is total BS.

Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!

by Nuck Chorris on Jun 3, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

well it wasn’t like David Robinson, Nazr Mohammed, Francisco Elson, Kenny Thomas etc weren’t playing the center position… now, it’s something of a stretch with Bonner or Umberto.

he is listed as an inch shorter than Nowitzki and only 15 lbs heavier and you don’t hear this outcry about Dirk being listed at PF. or guys like KG/Sheed who also defend centers from time to time. mr greatest power forward of all time Karl Malone is listed as being only 2 inches shorter and about the same weight.

by the evil monkey on Jun 3, 2009 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

height and weight have less to do with it than the actual role on the team. duncan anchored the middle, aside from robinson, everyone else played farther from the paint.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 3, 2009 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

um…if you’re going by offense, by your logic, that would make Okur a PF & Boozer a C. hell Malone played inside while Ostertag stood as far away from the ball as possible. Ewing was a jump shooting big man while Oakley played more in the paint. So when Camby and Nene were paired together in Denver 2 seasons ago, Nene was the center? though i guess it doesn’t matter now since Nene is all of a sudden a center now that he’s paired with someone smaller right?

if you’re going by defense. it’s even more absurd. Thomas, Mohammed and Elson don’t/didn’t stray from the paint. they probably ventured out of the paint less than Duncan since Duncan is involved in more pick & rolls. call me crazy, but i would think the guy who is defending the opposing team’s center would also be the one most analysts & whatnot would call the center on defense.

KG anchored the middle of the Timberwolves & Celtic defenses. so why don’t you consider him a center? Al Jefferson does a horrible job at it, but last season he frequently “anchored the middle” as you put it. Dirk is often playing w/ some kind of combination of Kidd/Barea/Terry/Josh/Wright/Stack/George/Bass….now i don’t know what particular defense Carlisle is running there – it’s not what he ran with the Pistons or Pacers, but it sure looks to me that Dirk’s the guy manning the center spot in their defense. the mail man didn’t venture out of the paint either why is he a PF? b/c Ostertag was bigger than him?

so if AR anchors the middle he’ll be the center? but what if AB anchors it sometimes and at other times AR does? what about the Jazz? before Boozer, AK was the guy who anchored that middle for them (as the 06-07 W’s found out he still kind of does)… so should we call him a center too? besides unlike small ball teams like Orlando or the W’s, most teams have 2 bigs anchoring the paint.

career-wise, Duncan no more played center than Brand or KG or Sheed or Dirk or Al Jeff or any other PF’s who are/were capable of guarding the position. so why do you consider them to be PFs?

if you wanted to say that it’s semantic b/c it’s less PF-C and more bigs. i’d agree with you, but if you just want to ONLY point at Duncan and say he’s a C while other guys are not just b/c you have some misguided notion that guys like Mohammed played farther away from the paint, i’m not going to agree.

i’m surprised you went w/ this “everyone else played farther from the paint”. actually before i read your response, i initially thought someone had called me out on the fact that i put Kenny Thomas instead of Kurt.

if you were going for a legitimate counterargument you should have gone with the Center is the guy who is listed as the bigger guy of the two big guys. and gave the Hakeem w/ Sampson example as a Duncan and Robinson parallel. the reason i view it differently is that Duncan continued to guard the PF while Olajuwon guarded C. just like even though Al Jefferson is bigger than Love, Love guards the C position. KG bigger than Blount.

what makes Ben Wallace a center & Joe Johnson a SG even though they are roughly the same size? it’s the opposing player they guard. if JJ is guarding a geezer Jordan type who is always posting up & Ben is guarding a Manute/Okur/Sheed – does it matter who is in the painted area 2x more than the other guy?

by the evil monkey on Jun 3, 2009 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i do think that the positions are mostly interchangable and that the distinction is mostly bs. i just think in terms of the role in the offense, duncan is closer to the center than a power forward and on defense he just guarded the better offensive player, usually a power forward, but not always. the idea of “position” is vastly overstated in the nba and what role you actually play on the team is far more useful to think about. just because guys are listed at a particular position gives you a fairly surface level, unhelpful way to look at their games.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 4, 2009 2:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i just think in terms of the role in the offense, duncan is closer to the center than a power forward

so Boozer = C, Okur = PF. Malone = C, Eaton = PF. Al Jefferson = C, Kendrick Perkins = PF?

the idea of "position" is vastly overstated in the nba and what role you actually play on the team is far more useful to think about.

agreed.

but why is Duncan a center and not KG or Nene or Sheed, etc etc etc?

he played 6 seasons with David Robinson….. what position was Robinson playing all those years?
he played 3 seasons with Rasho Nesterovic… what the hell was Rasho playing?
Nazr in his 2 seasons? Elson in his 2?

by the evil monkey on Jun 4, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

nene did play center this year, as did al jefferson and kendick perkins. it would be tough to say that garnett is more of a post player than perkins on those celtics teams. garnett loves his midrange game, that one was a silly addition. sheed often plays center when the pistons go small, at least on the defensive end, but on the offensive side of the ball, no one could call him a real post presence.

when he played with robinson, duncan was clearly the power forward, when he played with rasho and nazr he was the only actual basketball player at either position and filled both the center and the power forward “roles”, so you could make the argument either way (seriously, those guys were corpses), but for a fair amount of spurs games, they’d “go small” with duncan at the center and horry or oberto at the pf, etc. to say that duncan clearly isn’t a center when

a) there’s no real distinction outside of what most people vaguely define the roles at those postions and

b) duncan fills a lot of those “center roles” on the spurs

is really overstating who the importance of size in filling out a positional depth chart.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 4, 2009 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

sigh.

so why did you dispute Duncan as a PF while saying guys like Nowitzki whose teams play small far more often are not C? is Manute Bol a PF b/c he doesn’t fill enough of the roles of a center? why are Nene & Jefferson considered PF (no one insinuates that they are Cs listed as PFs)?

Look Duncan was at the PF spot for 6 yrs w/ Robinson. When Rasho & Nazr were there (next 3 yrs). Oberto wasn’t even on the team and Horry logged 16, 18 & 18 minutes those 3 seasons. so

for a fair amount of spurs games, they’d "go small" with duncan at the center and horry or oberto at the pf
was just something you made up to suit your argument and totally goes against actual facts of where Duncan played. So for at least 9 of his 12 yrs in the league he was a PF first and a back up C 2nd… and that’s w/o any Elson or Thomas minutes.

so why is Duncan a C when he’s spent the majority of his career playing PF? is it just b/c you think the roles he fills on the team fit your definition of what a C is? so what position were Robinson, Rasho, Nazr, Elson, etc? and don’t give me Horry dude played about as many minutes per game as Anthony Randolph or Brandan Wright.

by the evil monkey on Jun 4, 2009 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

for most of his career? yes. right now? no. do you want to count kurt thomas’ 17.8 minutes per game as the center? what about oberto’s 12.5 (and i’d argue that during those 12.5, duncan was the center)?

positions are poorly defined. if you want to tell me what a c or pf is that doesn’t have anything to do with opinions about what each position should do, i’d love to hear it. right now, duncan plays center. tell me who on that team is the center if he isn’t

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 4, 2009 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

but how is “Duncan going to the all stars as a PF is total BS.” (as Nuck Chorris stated) when that is the position he played for at least 9 years??

i even said it was a bit of a stretch NOW with guys like Bonner & Oberto…

by the evil monkey on Jun 4, 2009 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

fair, we were clearly debating entirely different issues here.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 4, 2009 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Duncan continued to be listed as a PF far more because it allowed him to be an All-Star starter when Shaq was a shoe-in at center. The distinction of position is rather artificial. Duncan did not continue to guard the PF so much as he defended the middle and whomever he matched up better with on defense. If a team had a center who could actually provide offense in the paint (most don’t for much of the game) Duncan tended to take that guy. If they attacked with a forward, then he took that guy, unless he was in foul trouble, in which case the Spurs used their “center” to bruise and keep Duncan from fouling out.

by jae on Jun 4, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Duncan continued to be listed as a PF far more because it allowed him to be an All-Star starter when Shaq was a shoe-in at center.

this is pure opinion. and not a very original one – just b/c some media guy says so doesn’t make it true.

The distinction of position is rather artificial.

um… yeah. it’s the same for most sports. why call it a nose tackle or a tight end? forward or a fullback (soccer)? usually based off of some kind of locational aspect, but i digress.

If a team had a center who could actually provide offense in the paint (most don’t for much of the game) Duncan tended to take that guy.

you must not have watched a lot of Spurs games. (not that i watched tons, but enough to see that outside of the 4th quarter in playoff games) Duncan rarely guarded the post guy when dr, nazr, or elson were in – likely to save his energy for the offensive end. plus it’s easier to help off of some jump shooter than a guy sitting in the paint.. hell, i forgot Rasho Nesterovic… someone gonna tell me he’s a PF???

maybe your memories aren’t serving & you’re going by what happened this season – when DR, Rasho, Elson or Nazr were on the team they usually got the opposing team’s center as their defensive assignment. since it’s all arbitrary anyway, shouldn’t the two players who are called the centers be the centers?

please stop with this ridiculous “middle” argument as if Robinson, Nazr, Elson and Thomas don’t/didn’t also defend the “middle”.

and this still doesn’t answer the main point of why people (in their minds) consider TD a center, but Webber, Sheed, KG, Dirk, Nene, Brand & co. are PFs. you’d think it’d be a size thing, but no one considers Magic as not a PG just b/c he was built like a forward.

it’d be one thing if TD was playing with smaller guys like Scola, Rashard his whole career while being listed as a PF. it’s another to have played 6 seasons alongside David Robinson. 4.5 alongside Rasho Nesterovic, Nazr and Elson. only Nazr is listed under 7 ft tall.

by the evil monkey on Jun 4, 2009 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

why do you keep making and then refuting the size argument? i have no idea what you are getting at with that. i’d be interested in your take on the argument of the very vauge differences between center and power forward. if you honestly do not know (not an insult, to say that the terms are well defined would be ridiculous), then stop acting like you know that duncan is a center and not a power forward. if you are merely asking for opinions, the tone of this should be much different.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 4, 2009 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

stop acting like you know that duncan is a center and not a power forward.

shouldn’t you be listening to your own advice????

i never claimed it wasn’t vague.

OP said Duncan at PF is BS.

i say it’s not and list examples of other players who are considered PF (and no one says that them being listed PF is BS) who play C just as frequently if not more than he does/did.

my whole argument is how can you call Duncan listed at PF as BS when he’s played the majority of minutes alongside Robinson (6 yrs! 1/2 his career! ppl act like it was 2 yrs or something), 3 w/ Rasho/Nazr, 1.5 more w/ Elson and the last 1.5 w/ Thomas?

hm… what’s wrong with my tone? is it the memory comment? dude, i’m not trying to be insulting – ppl just don’t remember things well and tend to reorganize them to suit their argument.

by the evil monkey on Jun 4, 2009 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i don’t think you’re trying to be insulting, i think you sound like you are making factual declarations when you aren’t. i’m saying that duncan right now is more of a center than a power forward, but that it’s fairly ambiguous. i never claimed that duncan is objectively a center and that no other opinion is valid and have said as much on a few occasions.

i also disagreed with many of the players you declared centers or power forwards, so to say that i just care about tim duncan’s listing as a power forward and don’t hold that standard to other players isn’t true.

i’m also unsure how this became about duncan’s career. the guy is allowed to play different roles on different different spurs teams and unless you want to discuss whether it is in tim duncan’s essence to be a center or a power forward, his supporting cast is very relevant.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 4, 2009 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

scratch the last paragraph, i now see that we just started off talking about different things entirely.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jun 4, 2009 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wrote: :Duncan continued to be listed as a PF far more because it allowed him to be an All-Star starter when Shaq was a shoe-in at center."

this is pure opinion. and not a very original one – just b/c some media guy says so doesn’t make it true.

I wasn’t aware that I was being graded on originality. For what it’s worth, I came up with it all by myself, but if “some media guy” also said it, it suggests to me that it’s not a very difficult stretch to come to that conclusion. It’s my opinion. I also suspect that it’s true.

“Just b/c some media guys says so” doesn’t make it false either. There are some things that media guys are really good at, and one of them is identifying promotion and advertising when they see it. The NBA makes zero attempts to hide that they engage in shameless self promotion, that they have aggressively marketed starts as the best athletes in the world and try to boost the exposure of their stars when they can.

(Rest of the hard to parse jibberish ignored. I wasn’t able to follow a coherent argument in any of it.)

by jae on Jun 4, 2009 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

(Rest of the hard to parse jibberish ignored. I wasn’t able to follow a coherent argument in any of it.)

lol. yeah cap’n hack sure had a hard time figuring it out.

well whatever. i know you’re too egotistical to care, but i respect cap’n hack.

by the evil monkey on Jun 4, 2009 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are confusing ‘egotistical’ with coherent.

by jae on Jun 4, 2009 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are some things that media guys are really good at, and one of them is identifying promotion and advertising when they see it.

Methinks they’re so good at this because it’s their job to do it themselves and learn new ways to do it…

I don’t know why we’re having an argument about a semantic, antiquated “role” that is posted in team programs and seemingly only used by the all star game, players who want to be viewed a certain way, and fantasy basketball leagues.

In a real NBA game, you have players with skills. Whichever team has the better skills, has skillsets that match up better, and happens to perform better on a given night wins. End of story. We all need to stop worrying about whether or not Duncan was a Center or a PF. This isn’t baseball or football where everything starts from a set play and you have set places where you need specific talents. Basketball is a fluid, dynamic sport where you’ll often have your “center” switched out guarding the other team’s “shooting guard” off a pick and roll or vice versa.

I’d think that Warriors fans would understand this more than the rest. We started Mike Pietrus and Corey Maggette at “power forward” multiple times in the last two years, and “Al Harrington” at Center more than a few times. We played our best set of players, end of story.

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
R Dizzle = Wannabe AB1

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 5, 2009 7:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

why would we want bosh for only a year?!? i see the arguement of trading for him to cut down our salary but i don’t see any good in renting him for a year.

let’s get rid of our big contracts and start all over again!!

by Young Moolah on Jun 3, 2009 4:41 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

BOSH Crazy

You all really think he will save the franchise. We just watched LBJ lose the Eastern Conference finals playing as a one man team. Give me a break. We need to pick up a solid #7 pick and work with what we got. The only plausible idea would be to pick up a vet PG (Jason Kidd) whats up with anthony carter or rafer alston next year with jamir nelsons return. I would look into a backup pg who could dish to our multiple scorers. Cmon yall, step your bar game up and quit talking nonsense.

by cnostril on Jun 3, 2009 5:48 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I only make this trade if its a sign in trade. I honestly think eventually Randolph will be a more complete player than Bosh is. Right now Bosh just seems like a jump shooting PF who is more interested in his website than basketball.

by bushido on Jun 4, 2009 9:13 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Bosh Not Signing an Extension...

According to this. So doesn’t this mean the Rap’s are more likely to try to move him? Even so, I think it’d just be for a year, I don’t think it’d be worth busting up the greatness we have here.

by Hoopachoo on Jun 5, 2009 6:09 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

in any case

They’re going to try to hold on and try to milk Bosh as long as possible, probably until the trade deadline. Bosh will be playing his arse off to earn his next max contract and Toronto needs to sell tickets!

Let’s put the Bosh trade talk to rest for at least 6 more months, it’s getting my hopes up.

"We Deserve"

by YaHeard on Jun 5, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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