BREAKING NEWS: Warriors and Hawks closing in on Jamal Crawford for Acie Law and Speedy Claxton swap
by Atma Brother ONE on Jun 24, 2009 1:28 PM PDT
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PrintMarc Stein over at ESPN.com is reporting that the Warriors and Hawks are nearing a Jamal Crawford for Acie Law and Speedy Claxton swap.
Good luck JC.
-
Jump for a quote from Stein, a few initial thoughts, and some links!
The Atlanta Hawks and Golden State Warriors are closing in on a trade that would find a new home for Jamal Crawford.
NBA front-office sources say that the Warriors and Hawks will soon complete a deal sending Crawford to Atlanta for Acie Law and Speedy Claxton.
A few initial reactions:
- Foolish me. I actually didn't think the Warriors could move Crawford till he decided whether to opt out or not.
- Maybe Speedy Claxton can help us bring back Baron Davis again?
- Sure the defense wasn't there and he won the first annual WDWY, but I'm going to miss JC. He was fun to watch with his sick handles and uncanny knack for drawing the foul on the treys. JC was beyond classy here. Hey at least the man showed up to Fan Appreciation Night unlike Stephen Jackson, Monta Ellis, and Corey Maggette.
- This is a very odd basketball trade for the Warriors, but maybe we have to dig a little deeper.
- Acie Law = Marcus Williams 2.0?
Also see:
- Crawford coming to Hawks [Peachtree Hoops]
Finally, it may not have been possible, but Acie and Speedy appear to be headed into a team who might be more dysfunctional than their previous one.
- ESteinPN reporting: Warriors set to send Crawford to Atlanta for Law and Claxton [Talking Points]- some interesting thoughts and a look at the salary numbers behind this deal
- Warriors, Hawks Talking Crawford Trade [FanHouse]
- Speedy, Law not the Answer [Inside the Warriors]
I’ve been told by Warriors insiders that neither Claxton nor Law is the Warriors’ answer to their point guard solutions. They are still in the market for a PG, so this trade does not rule out them drafting a point guard.
Thanks to Rotudo for getting this up within seconds of it going down in the FanPosts.
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I won’t miss him.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 24, 2009 1:31 PM PDT reply actions
Great person.. didnt fit
Ill miss the idea that he was a great guy, but nobody can argue that the Warriors were a better team with Crawford. Defense was horrific… you can only score so much to make up for that. Good luck playing in Atlanta, ill make sure to cheer for you when you come back to the bay next year
That's not the point.
This trade is still garbage. I wont be sad to see him go, but Crawford has value, and neither of those guys do. I would rather just have their first round draft pick.
Speedy is back!
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or Tyreke Evans. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Conductor of the We're Back Warrior Movement!
LOL
Oakland Raiders Fan
Golden State Warriors Fan
San Francisco Giants Fan
San Jose Sharks Fan
MMA Fan
USC Trojan Fan
by i love sports101 on Jun 24, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions
you know what that means
the Baron trade is gonna happen all over again!
We USED to Believe...
WE DEMAND IMPROVEMENT!
by RunNdGun on Jun 24, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
dude speedy is the dale davis
hes the big expiring contract
Cause Havoc. Bring Nash in and 120 point games will be very expected
In other words I think this means we are going to draft a non-PG
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or Tyreke Evans. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Conductor of the We're Back Warrior Movement!
Yeah, I think you need to change your signature.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 24, 2009 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Here's hoping for DeRozen
Or a miracle in Harden
Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, or Tyreke Evans. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Conductor of the We're Back Warrior Movement!
Harden would be the miracle of miracles, really.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 24, 2009 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think this is it
Getting rid of Jamal frees up cap space, which is a good thing. Loved the player, he was a professional both on and off the court, and played well every game. You will be missed.
Now these backups/expiring contracts mean only one thing to me – another possible trade. These can be good pieces to bring in a vet or maybe even…dare I say it…Bosh?
This isn’t the end…can’t be.
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by R Dizzle on Jun 24, 2009 1:34 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Also, yes
This could end up to be Marcus Williams 2.0. No big deal IF WE ACTUALLY MAKE A TRADE.
We still believe!!
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worst case - cap relief next year
best case – jamal makes it to a playoff game.
+1,
my $ says we’re not drafting tomorrow- we’re trading it for a vet, probably packaged with one or both of these guys (if not with another piece on the squad).
Chris Cohan- YOU'RE FIRED!
This is moved from the first line of comments:
To Captain Jack: The Wolves team is paper-thin in the front court even with jefferson and they are going to effect the draft for everyone. Lets just hope they do something completely stupid and f-it up for the rest of us. Best case? We keep the 7, take a guy like Curry or Holiday who is still on the board, and use the new pieces to package with Maggs to get a vet to help the team. Everyone- lets be honest. This is not a glamour move but a NEEDED move. The draft is only a first start. Got to give it to Riley here: Getting Crawford when everyone knew Harrington was available was good to start until we learned he couldnt play D. Now moving him for 2 pgs with any potential AND now flex to trade them with some other pieces for some better parts of the puzzel? its a great sta
After trading away 2 of their top 3 three point shooters, I’d be shocked if Minnesota doesn’t take Curry.if he’s still on the board.
by homer simpson on Jun 24, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Great Point
This draft is shaping up to look really bad for the Warriors chances to get a player they were looking for. I say trade it boys….
Totally agree
When you give up Mike Miller I think you replace him with another shooter. That means Curry in this draft.
I agree with you they lack depth at the 4/5 spot.
but almost every mock draft and analyst has them taking either two guards or trading up to #2 to get Thabeet/Rubio. They can use of one their other 15 draft picks this year to get a PF.
by Captain Jack on Jun 24, 2009 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Love, Jefferson, Gomes, Madsen, Smith, Collins, Cardinal…..there may not be a whole lot of quality there, but there are way more guys on that roster capable of playing the 4/5 than there are guys who can play the 1, 2 or 3/
Thing A
so do we have to wait a certain amount of time before turning around and dealing these guys again?
Thing A
As witnessed by yesterday's trades
Don’t think so.
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It entirely depends on the deal. We cannot immediately package them as part of another bigger deal, but we can trade either immediately (after the trade actually goes through — I’m still waiting to see something official) on their own.
I am still kind of skeptical about this deal. It requires Crawford to waive his opt-out. Has he done so? I’ve heard nothing.
Is your skepticism only because of the Crawford technicality? Or do you have reservations about the trade in general?
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jun 24, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m with jae…nothing is technically official, and so until it is, no need to get all nutso. Technically Crawford has until the 1st to decide on his opt-out so this might take a while…
We still believe!!
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He'll waive it, unless of course he's an idiot.
Which he probably isn’t. He’ll waive that ETO, get his $20M and make the playoffs for the first time in his career. That’s not incentive enough?
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
I thought so, but was Oberto moved after joining the Bucks or did they alter that into a 3 way trade
by homer simpson on Jun 24, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I’ve seen conflicting reports on whether or not it was a three-way deal or not.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 24, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Scratch this.
Can’t be traded for 2 months in combination with another player.
But can be traded by himself.
This restriction applies only to teams over the salary cap.
But you can get around this by trading Claxton for player A then doing a separate trade with, say, Maggette for player B, C.
by homer simpson on Jun 24, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
nice
thaqt way jamal can finally play in a playoff game hopefully.
the guy is chill but doesnt fit our team so i hope the best on the hawks
still… anyone remember that maurice evans thing that was supposedly done but never happened?
Yeah, I thought that spelled the end for Azubuike.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 24, 2009 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I hate this move
Unless it’s just to set up something bigger and better it makes no sense Speedy is done and Acie is garage we should not give away a 20 a game scorer for free.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Jun 24, 2009 1:37 PM PDT reply actions
What if he’s a really bad 20 a game scorer? Like one that is bad on offense and defense? I say good riddance.
by Missing Barry on Jun 24, 2009 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
lol
we have monta back… jamal is a chucker version of monta.
jamal is the even-more chucker version of sjax
You wish both would drive more than take 3pt shots.
Question?
What Happens if we make this pick and Jordan Hill is drafted? Will the Dubs look at Blair?
Wouldn’t James Johnson be more likely?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 24, 2009 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I’ve seen Johnson all over the mocks, I wasn’t sure. I think the warriors should draft a point guard anyway since Acie Law hasn’t done much to prove himself.
supposedly, Toronto likes him (Johnson) or Holiday.
by homer simpson on Jun 24, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I think the Raptors would be foolish to pass up on DeRozan.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 24, 2009 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I assume this is for after the draft
Once the draft happens, the can start moving the contracts around for something they need. If we draft a pg, get a 4/5. If we draft a 4, try to get a good pg.
Goodbye, Jamal!
You were a class act. Maybe under different circumstances, you could’ve stayed. You were a professional in every bit of the word. Good luck in Atlanta and now you get to FINALLY play in the playoffs!
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
Yeah, considering how he was treated here and what a great guy he seemed like, I’m glad we were able to send Jamal to a playoff caliber team.
by homer simpson on Jun 24, 2009 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Speedy's contract
This is a good move because of Speedy’s contract. 80% of Speedy’s contract is being picked up by an insurance company making his contract a smaller version of what Raef Lafrentz’s contract was for the Trailblazers last year as a trading chip (though the blazers decided not to use it.)
http://www.draftexpress.com/blog/Jonathan-Givony/#Word-on-the-Street-June-16th-3263
interesting tidbit
-Atlanta is reportedly looking to package the #19 pick along with Speedy Claxton’s contract, in order to clear additional cap room, likely to resign Mike Bibby. 80% of Claxton’s contract (5.2 million) will be picked up by an insurance company, making this a relatively cheap investment for a team with cap room looking to acquire another pick.
We get a 2nd pick perhaps? Then try to trade up?
Where did you see this?
That would be awesome if we get another pick. If we end up taking Hill at #7 we possibly could land someone like Teague or Lawson at #19.
by Captain Jack on Jun 24, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions
OMG
80% of Speedy’s contract is being picked up by an insurance company making his contract a smaller version of what Raef Lafrentz’s contract was for the Trailblazers last year as a trading chip (though the blazers decided not to use it.)
This makes the deal all the sweeter! wooohooo on saving money and hopefully setting us up with a possible bigger deal
Gotta love the Bay Area drama ;)
Yeah, this makes Speedy an even more valuable expiring contract to other GMs looking to save cash.
by homer simpson on Jun 24, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Great trade for the Dubs.
Like I said in my EWA post Crawford wasn’t going to play with the Warriors at all. Nelson hated him and it was only a matter of time before he was gone a la Harrington.
Financially we free up 10 million for 10-11 which is great since Crawford wasn’t going ot be a rotation player.
Basketball wise Speedy and Acie will be lucky to see the floor,much like Crawford was slated too. This essentially firms up our rotation. Monta and Jackson taking the bulk of the minutes at 1 and 2, Bukie and Maggs splitting time at 3, and Morrow backing up the 2/3 spots.
The one downside of this trade is that it might mean the end of the CJ Watson Era in Oakland.
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I disliked CJ for much of last season. That still hasn't changed.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
Also Speedy and Acie will be great trading chips come deadline time.
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Yep great trade anyway you slice it.
The Riley Era is off to a good start.
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That might be a bit too far.
One move that has POTENTIAL means nothing. Just like the JRich trade – there was more to it than getting Wright there was also some money involved that was never spent…
Wait til the end of the draft before you can make any statements about the Riley Era.
We still believe!!
Follow me on Twitter! Username - RDizzleGSoM
As his 1st official move it's a great trade IMO (thus great start) even if they never trade the contracts.
Getting rid of Crawford-Nelson beef before the season is great as it will limit distractions.
We also got rid of Crawford and didn’t have to take back horrible deals. We shed 10 million for 10-11 season which allows us some flexibility again.
The potential trade chips even if they amount to nothing is great as it opens up options we never had before.
Will teh RIley Era be good? Will he mess it up? Who knows but as his 1st official move it’s a great one.
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Even without a subsequent move, freeing up time for Morrow or Belinelli instead of Crawford is a plus to me.
by homer simpson on Jun 24, 2009 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
good start, +1
I’m confident now that we’re going to use one or both of these guys to package with the pick to get a vet, probably sign and trade.
More I think about it, Riley DOES NOT want to make a selection (AT ALL) in this years draft. He doesn’t want to be 2nd guessed from the jump. There’s so much uncertainty with this draft- that I’d bet we’re trading the pick.
Chris Cohan- YOU'RE FIRED!
Just going to throw this out there, I don’t think this will or should change our draft strategy at all.
by Missing Barry on Jun 24, 2009 1:41 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
This feels like a move that will beget another move, so evaluating it right now might not be fair. But I think I like it even as it stands.
Getting Jamal out of town was important. No hate on the guy — I agree with Atma that he was a class act through and through here — but he was a terrible basketball fit for us, and you don’t want a weird AWOL situation looming over a locker room. It is in some ways a shame that we punted on his big ‘11 expiring, but I think you can make the argument that a small ’10 expiring is about as valuable as a big ’11 expiring. If there’ll ever be a trade deadline where you can get value for expiring deals, it’s this one.
Basketball-wise, of course, we didn’t get much of anything here. I’m guessing Speedy’s gonna retire, and Law kinda stinks… he may be a purer point than CJ Watson, but he’s a much worse player. If we let CJ walk as a result of this, it’ll be a mistake.
But I think this is a decent little deal, under the circumstances. Cleans up an awkward situation, and gives us some slightly better trade pieces. No complaints here.
CJ probably stays
Unless we make a play for a pg and don’t need a backup anymore. Nellie likes him and he plays hard.
On some Hawks boards their talking about how they have their guy who can play point now
No one does watch us anymore huh
hahahaaa i guess not
But i wish JC the best
We be doin' it CROOKLYN style!!!!!
by LighTz707OuT on Jun 24, 2009 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions
lol
actually tahts whawt i thought when we traded for him.. hahaha… cause who watches the knicks?
thats what i though too, lol
We be doin' it CROOKLYN style!!!!!
by LighTz707OuT on Jun 24, 2009 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
JC good guy
it’s too bad he didnt fit our system, he was a nice guy with some SMOOTH handles. im going to miss seeing him break peoples ankles!!
you'll get to see him do that twice next year to us!
And perhaps in the playoffs too
I agree.
I jumped out of my seat when he tore Allen’s ankle to shreds at the Garden.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
All right Riley...
Hope we’ve got more moves coming. Good to hear we’re on the phones at least.
Yeah. After all the Kawakami whisperings, it’s comforting to see that the new regime can actually execute a simple trade.
Yeah, let’s not get too hasty though, this is a great business decision, consistent with the Rowell/Riley mindset. We’ll see what type of basketball decision it turns into, if any.
True. But the Rowell regime sometimes can’t even make sound business decisions (witness the Jack extension), so competence on any level is reassuring.
so competence on any level is reassuring
You’re right…In fact this is the first trade/signing in a loooong time where I immediately didn’t think “Oh Crap”. Too bad their pick wasn’t included too.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
it works out for both really
we lose the guy we weren’t going to play anyway for instant salary relief . They get a 6th man and/or a combo guard if Bibby resigns or not
Actually
Are we maybe setting up for a Free Agent, either this year or in 2010?
DeMar Derozen or James Harden, 1st-Team Rookie Warrior in 09.
if we are, this year
Nellie wants to win and easier to plan for this year than next.
Also since JC was a classy guy , I'm happy that he's going to the Hawks.
It’s hard to hate a player who played hard in a Dubs uniform and won us a couple of games on his own.
Enjoy the playoffs Crawford and playing for an up and coming young team.
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If Bibby comes back I could see the Hawks being fairly happy with Crawford backing up both spots. If Bibby doesn’t come back I give it about 6 weeks into the season before Hawks fans realize Jamal Crawford is not a very good option at starting PG.
Everything Joe Johnson does well Crawford does a little less well. Everything Joe Johnson doesn’t do or doesn’t do well Crawford does even worse.
Thing A
Is bibby that much better than Crawford as a PG?
I didn’t think Bibby was a “pass-first” type of guy either. And his defense is no better than Crawford’s, that’s for sure.
I don’t watch Hawks games, but last season:
Bibby’s Assist to TO ratio 3.06
Crawford’s A:TO ratio is 1.95
by homer simpson on Jun 24, 2009 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions
?
I’d definitely take Bibby’s d over Crawford’s. He may not even be an average defensive PG but he’s much better than Jamal. Bibby has also averaged over 6 assists per 36 mins to Jamal’s 4.6.
Thing A
Bibby has been a mildly better rebounder than Crawford despite being significantly shorter. He’s also mildly (ever so mildly) better at getting steals. Even if he’s getting all of them by gambling on D, it’s still better than Crawford. Given that Bibby has, for the most part been a much more efficient scorer (a tiny shade under average for his career compared to Crawford’s well under average), gets more assists AND has a much, much better ratio of assists to turnovers, I just don’t see why anyone honestly could think Crawford is a better player.
Bibby is looking for serious $$. From Atlanta’s standpoint, I would guess they are happy to trade two disappointments for somebody who could do 85% of what Bibby could do for 66% of the price. At least, I don’t understand this deal otherwise.
And saying Bibby’s D is better than crawfords is like arguing which winter day is warmer — in Antarctica or the arctic. both are pretty darn cold.
Wow suprised on the votes.
Those against the trade care to enlighten us?
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yep
Ray Allen needed som ankle insurance, lol
We be doin' it CROOKLYN style!!!!!
by LighTz707OuT on Jun 24, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
ha have you 707 guys ever responded to each other before? thats the first time I’ve seen it, I get you two confused all the time
Thing A
naw we both from Vallejo
707 say it backwards
We be doin' it CROOKLYN style!!!!!
by LighTz707OuT on Jun 24, 2009 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Napa!!
Thats wine country, lol. And thats where all the rich white people live.
We be doin' it CROOKLYN style!!!!!
by LighTz707OuT on Jun 24, 2009 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions
classy guy
can’t say i’ll miss his play too much, but if this is all we get out of it then it’s not a great trade for us. hopefully there’s something bigger coming soon
even if we don't get something bigger
we still clear up the feud between Nelson and Crawford. Also, we shed more salary and have a chance to get a free agent in 2010. And at the trade deadline, we have some expiring contracts that could help us get a good player if we are somehow in the hunt for the playoffs.
JRich 23
by warriorsalltheway on Jun 24, 2009 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Plus more playing time for Morrow & Belinelli.
by homer simpson on Jun 24, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
meh
I’m not betting on him ever suiting up as a Warrior yet, and if he does I suspect the Marcus Williams comparisons may be accurate in terms of playing time. I’m just glad they were able to get 2 pretty valuable contracts in return.
Thing A
acie
is much different than marcus because nellie loves acie law. he wanted him back in the 07 draft
Gerald Madkins
by gorillas on Jun 24, 2009 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
did he? I thought I remembered something like that, but wasn’t nearly sure enough to say it, link?
Thing A
Ah yes.
gorillas is correct if rumors in the summer of 07’ are to believed. There was a potential Monta for #11 trade reported that never materialized. So at least this COULD mean that Nellie saw something he liked in Law. I don’t know how much the last two suck years Acie had has affected Nellie’s thoughts about him.
One caveat however though is that Acie definitely had the rep as an outside shooter coming into the league. He’s shot terrible his first two years so an offensive player that can’t shoot efficiently is the makings of a D-league star, or off to Europe. If he can find his shot, however, he might get more PT than Marcus Williams got. Williams wasn’t known for his outside shot. I’ve read online (haven’t watched ATL much, even less when Acie is on the floor) that Acie is at least a decent defender. He’s not an athletic or quick marvel, but he can stay in front of his man. Struggles on the pick-n-roll, so he should fit right in with the Warrior guards.
I’m now waiting to see what we’ll do with Marco and Kelenna now that we’ve reportedly turned down the Raja Bell trade. Are we saving those chips for a bigger trade? I hope so.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
All Bad!
I’m not with this trade. They should at LEAST get a better player in return then speedy. *PREDICTION!!* Front office will be the reason of the Warriors’ downfall. not resigning Mullin was a HUGE mistake. Now they’ll be having Riley taking his place? Has anybody thought of what he did in the Grizzlies organization? yea, nobody does know b/c that’s how bad he did…
by justinleagueheroes on Jun 24, 2009 2:02 PM PDT reply actions
They did get a better player than Speedy. His name is Acie Law.
PREDICTION!!* Front office will be the reason of the Warriors’ downfall
The good news is you’re only about 20 years late with your prediction.
Thing A
BUT
what does Law give the warriors? what has he given to the hawks this past season? yea, NOTHING
by justinleagueheroes on Jun 24, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
he won’t be a negative like Crawford was so there’s that…………….. He’s worth a one year look on the cheap. Like I’ve said, I don’t even know if he’ll suit up in a Warrior uniform before being shipped out again, and I don’t expect him to bring anything more than what Williams brought, but its possible that he could flourish with a change of scenery, not likely, but possible. Even if he doesn’t he and Claxton will both have some trade value this year and if they aren’t moved both come off the books this year
Thing A
that's cool
I agree with you on that. what I just don’t understand is they could have gotten a better deal. Oh well, we’ll see tomorrow what the warriors will do with the 7th pick.
by justinleagueheroes on Jun 24, 2009 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think we could’ve gotten a better deal. I thought we’d have to take back a smaller but still bad contract with a half decent player/prospect if we hoped to deal Crawford. Not many GMs are attracted to flashy ppg averages anymore. (maybe we should be trying to help Chris Mullin get a GM job somewhere?)
Thing A
Law vs Williams
Law- Floor General with a history of success on the floor
Williams—Score first pg with an attitude and questionable scoring.
Law is everything that we WISHED Williams would have been.
What has Law done?
I loved the guy out of TX A&M but he hasn’t done anything yet.
GSOM- Where Education From Debate Happens
by The Dedication on Jun 24, 2009 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
eh
I dunno that sounds pretty similar to the same schtick we heard about Williams at this time last year-successful college PG who just hasn’t gotten his shot in the pro’s yet……I’m not saying Law definitely won’t play, just that I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if he doesn’t.
Thing A
Alright....
I tried to support it for a second, but you guys are right. He has done nothing in the NBA game yet, so im grasping at this one. I just think Law has more of a mindset than the questionable Williams… Williams had a history of NBA failure before he came to the Warriors. Law? He just rode behind some highly paid pgs in Atlanta. Just think there is something is something there
I liked Law a lot more in college than I like Williams and I assume most people probably did. Its totally meaningless, but I think most people (like you seem to) will at least like Law a little better even if he is stuck on the end of the bench. Plus he isn’t the personification of a lost 1st round pick.
Thing A
...yet
The key to Law’s success if he makes this team is to shoot the 3ball effectively, play defense and hopefully handle the point in back-up minutes. That’s the best case scenario. How likely is he to reach that, 50-50? I’m happy to see he has a decent pg stats, not great by any stretch, but a bit better than Monta.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
One Bad contract for 2 expiring
Winner? The Dubs…. Slighty…. The Hawks do get a bit of depth who can score off the bench, something they didn’t have last year
GSOM- Where Education From Debate Happens
by The Dedication on Jun 24, 2009 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
That’s saying a lot still. I’d say we gave up the best player in the trade. On the other hand we helped our roster spots and financials so I’m going to say it’s a wash.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
Law
Playing behind MIke Bibby is a tough place to be. He is young with a history of being a floor general and a consistant ball handler for the second string team giving Ellis a breather. At best he steps up to the first team and hands it off to Stack and Randolph to score. Tell me… HOW CAN THIS BE BAD? Law: work on your D and passing, and buddy you can get some serious playing time.
I will agree with people above: Watson and Law are pretty much the same guy, dont see both on the same team unless one is getting a cramp warming up a seat on the bench. Thinking Watson might be on another team by the start of next year….
There's a chance we still resign watson.
IF we don’t draft a pg, our depth would be Monta/Watson/Law.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
Ahh shyt
I don’t like this trade. It does clear up one of our big contracts. It’s not all bad.
by warriorfan4life on Jun 24, 2009 2:03 PM PDT reply actions
i like this trade a lot
we get rid of a big contract in jc and also get a young potentially good PG in acie law
Gerald Madkins
So I guess the question now is — who wants expiring contracts? The Suns are hurting financially, and the Knicks are desperate to clear space… who else?
this could be a separate thread
but maybe the Pistons who are rumored to be looking to unload the Rip and Prince contracts, they’ve got quite a bit of room already but could be looking for more
Thing A
If we turn this into Rip and/or Prince
I will dance a jig and take back everything I’ve ever said about the FO and never question them again!
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
me too
but its got a long way to go before we get to that. Speey’s insured contract could be pretty big piece in landing a Prince type though…..a much more valuable trade piece than Crawford would’ve been in that kind of deal
Thing A
Got to say, I was one of the "we could have gotten a better deal" voters
but I didn’t know about the Speedy situation and wasn’t thinking on this being a first step for something bigger and better.
I’m all in now.
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
Other squads shedding $
New Orleans, Sac, Milwaukee are three that come to mind off the top.
Tyson Chandler might be a good fit alongside Biedrins and Turiaf
Chris Cohan- YOU'RE FIRED!
Good trade
Speedy’s contract is valuable because 80% is picked up by some insurance company. The question is whether Cohan will actually allow Nelson to use Speedy’s contract as a trading chip or as a way for the Warriors to save Cohan money.
Or is this a start to the Warriors clearing cap space for next summer’s blockbuster free agent class? Please…
Man we’ve heard it before. Until Cohan actually lets Riley and Nellie use the money “saved”, it’s just padding the pockets of the worst owner in sports.
This a big market team with an incredibly loyal fanbase that pours out its hard earned dollars into this classless organization. Another deal that reduces payroll does nothing for me.
Hopefully this leads to a big move, but as of now this does NOTHING to improve the Warriors- and more playing time for Marco Belinelli is NOT a good thing. Speedy Claxton will most likely never play for the Warriors.
Acie Law has done far less in his NBA career than Marcus Williams did before Mullin gave away a first round draft pick for him. Now I don’t think Jamal Crawford is a great player, but hey- he’s not a horrible player. Claxton and Law are much worse (and per 40 extrapolations mean nothing here).
If anything this is more proof that there is no such thing as an untradeable contract in the NBA.
by Atma Brother ONE on Jun 24, 2009 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Going to have to disagree
Not with your comments about the organization, but about the deal.
Belli getting more playing time is NOT an upgrade, but even if these two never play, the rest of the team and roster is more clear. I would disagree that Williams has done more than Law; we havent seen enough time on Laws career to say that.
In the end, the Warriors are a better team WITHOUT Crawford.
Less time for Crawford, more time for Morrow improves the team.
Though even for Belinelli, I’d argue his defense is an upgrade on Crawford’s and their TS%’s are the same.
by homer simpson on Jun 24, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, i should have actually put “about the same”.
Beli .547, Crawford .541
by homer simpson on Jun 24, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
now I’m just a little surprised that Crawford is right around 54%, the mark that jae taught me to regard as the benchmark for average for just about any position. I’m surprised Crawford’s good FT shooting and made 3s helped his TS% that much. I kinda expected Belinelli to be right around average until you said he was right there with Crawford. Very enlightening series of posts, thanks homer.
Thing A
The numbers may be skewed cause of Belinelli’s smaller sample size compared to Jamal’s who is, as we all know, a high volume shooter
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
by JustSomeName on Jun 24, 2009 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Crawford’s 54% was one of the better seasons of his career, with many sub-54% seasons in the mix. I would not count on him being that average again, and certainly not count on him being better. Belinelli is still under the age when most guys peak with respect to scoring efficiency. It would not be unwise to expect on him being that efficient again and I wouldn’t be shocked at all if he improved.
OH Atma, always waiting for the other shoes to drop...
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
As of this moment
The ATL site- Peachtree Hoops, has only two comments about this same post….
Chris Cohan- YOU'RE FIRED!
Man, nobody post
as much as us except for the Blazers
GSOM- Where Education From Debate Happens
by The Dedication on Jun 24, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Of course
how could i forget that
GSOM- Where Education From Debate Happens
by The Dedication on Jun 24, 2009 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
on the otherhand
this really sucks because now we’re probably going to get hill. im going to pray that a team picks him before we do.
Gerald Madkins
Looking at this draft
I think it is safe to say Hill will be off the board by 7. Have no fear
?
to who? I think its safe to assuame Griffin, Thabeet, Rubio, Harden and Curry will be off the board with Sac picking up a PG in there too… without a draft trade I can’t see Hlll being gone
Thing A
Minny
With the 5 and 6, unless they really think that the backcourt needs two guys to improve, I think they go front court/back court with the two picks. Just my guess
I think Minnesota’s definitely going guard/guard… two of Curry, Harden, Rubio and Evans. They don’t have a huge need for a big, and Hill’s exciting people less than those four guys are anyway. If we don’t trade the pick, I think Hill’s a Warrior.
minnys gonna trade the #5 and #18 to memphis for the #2
memphis will have the #5 and with their lack of a PF (warrick i think is playing the 4 right now)…they will probably pick j. hill.
which leaves the t-wolves and us to either pick curry or evans
Gerald Madkins
Minny has
Love & Jefferson, there would be no court time for him. Minny, if they stay, will be getting Curry/Evans or Curry/Harden & if they trade up they get Curry/Rubio. They don’t have any shooters now so they don’t really have a choice
GSOM- Where Education From Debate Happens
by The Dedication on Jun 24, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
That reasoning disqualifies the W's too
They have Biedrins, Randolph, Wright and Turiaf. Surely Hill would rate below all four of these?
+1
i dont understand the philosophy in picking hill when we have ar and wright at the 4. if we do pick hill though, we know one thing—wright is on the trading block for sure…
Gerald Madkins
I agree, I don't see the point in drafting Hill
I really don’t want him if we have Randolph as our future 4 man
GSOM- Where Education From Debate Happens
by The Dedication on Jun 24, 2009 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I understand the logic, but, interestingly, Minny’s GM is interested in Thabeet.
Kahn on Tuesday openly praised Thabeet, the 7-foot-3 Husky who could give the team a sorely needed defensive presence next to Al Jefferson and Kevin Love up front.
“You could say that would complete our front line if we had somebody of that size and rim-protecting capability,” Kahn said. “You could actually make an argument, and I’m not making that for me right now, but somebody could make that argument, that he would be the perfect fit.”Could very well be a smokescreen, but for what reason?
Though I agree that one of the picks has to be Curry… They just gave away 2 of their top 3 three-point shooters on a team that doesn’t shoot well from outside to begin with.
by homer simpson on Jun 24, 2009 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions
DOH. Forgot link:
http://www.fortmilltimes.com/124/story/616418.html
And I guess this forum doesn’t like spaces when blockquoting.
by homer simpson on Jun 24, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
It shouldn’t increase the odds of Hill at all….but I thought Hill was the most likely pick yesterday too
Thing A
BRANDON JENNINGS!!!
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
by JustSomeName on Jun 24, 2009 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
As much as I don't really get picking Hill
he will be with us unless Memphis trades to the 5th pick
GSOM- Where Education From Debate Happens
by The Dedication on Jun 24, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
My feeling is
We aren’t drafting period. I think there’s too much uncertainty and deep down, Larry Riley doesn’t want his first pick as GM to be 2nd guessed. As long as this trade is official by the draft tomorrow- i think these guys (one if not both) will be packaged with th 7 pick for a vet.
Chris Cohan- YOU'RE FIRED!
Finally, it may not have been possible, but Acie and Speedy appear to be headed into a team who might be more dysfunctional than their previous one.
How are the Hawks more dysfunctional than us? Even so, at least they make the playoffs and have some sort of SUCCESS!!!
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
last time i checked
the only sb forums which are more active than ours are portland’s and chicago’s, but chicago’s may have only garnered all that traffic since they played the celtics so well in that series.
the bold part is saying:
that the dubs are more dysfunfunctional than the Hawks.
Anyone think
JC might nix the deal if the Hawks won’t give him a longer contract ? Just to stick to Nellie maybe ?
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Jun 24, 2009 2:33 PM PDT reply actions
JC Nixing the deal
The only thing JC can do is opt out of his contract to screw us… which ironically would be not screwing us at all
Good move
We get a guy in Acie who might be able to lead the second team if he can earn Nellie’s trust, get rid of Crawfords AWFUL contract, get valuable trading chips with Claxton and Law,and free up time for Morrow to shoot the lights out.
so we still have claxton in terms of our cap, meaning we can only offer an MLE. Obviously we won’t be paying his salary, so that’s nice for cohan (heaven forbid we approach luxury tax!). IMO its still not the greatest…
Acie Law could be something… we’ll see i liked him in college
I do like the type of trading chip claxton gives u….. claxton + young player like belinelli or bwright could get us a player of 8-9 mil salary in return
Claxton+Belinelli+Wright for Prince?
Monta/Law
Jackson/Buike/Morrow
Prince/Maggette/Buike
Randolph/Prince/Hill
Biedrins/Turiaf/Hill
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 24, 2009 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
detroit dont seem to really want to trade prince and hamilton
do they? I know there has been talk, but i am not seeing it. Cause if they did, considering there relatively modest contracts compared to high production, they EASILY could
I have no idea if they actually want to, but there have been so many rumored deals involving them that I can’t imagine they are all just being made up. Rip’s contract is pretty long so I could see wanting to deal him…. I don’t really know why they want to deal Prince-the 2 or 3 years left on his deal seem very reasonable to me, but if they are committed to totally rebuilding and landing a big time ’10 FA they might do it.
Thing A
Idk if you heard
lately on the news that Celtics are offering both Rondo and Allen for Stuckey, Rip, & Prince.
by justinleagueheroes on Jun 24, 2009 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions
If they wouldn’t do it, would you be willing to swap picks?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 24, 2009 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions
probably….we could still probably get Terrence Williams or DeJuan Blair, you’d probably see a lot more of Prince at PF, but I’d still do it
Thing A
i’d love to see monta, prince, randolph, bwright, jamario lineup…… combine length 35 ft. Combine weight. 900 lbs
by tafkasam on Jun 24, 2009 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ahh they do it again
Yet another example of why the Dubs are the worst professional team in North American Sports. Lets trade Speedy and Dale Davis for Baron Davis why don’t we.
YES!!!!!!!!!!!
Good bye Tim Hardaway-WANNABE!!!!!!!
no more 30-ft rushed 3’s with 100 seconds left on the clock!
no more 25-ft rushed 3’s with 100 seconds left on the clock!!
no more 2/9 3pt FGs with 10 TOs per night!!!!
no more low BBAL IQ on the court!!!!!!
no more $1billion wasted in a guy w/o future!! The dude just refuses to learn! HE has all the tools but doesn’t know how to use them!
GOODBYE VERY MUCH!!!
=Gaucho=
wait...
we traded crawford not jackson right?
Now you all see how...
…Jackson and Crawford sucked basically the same way, huh?
Both spent the last season doing what I said in my previous post.
and both should be dumped from the bay.
Crawford is gone, so 1 less. We still have JAckson (and maggette…..)
=Gaucho=
Acie Law
if i remember correctly…. donnie nelson convinced The Don to trade for a backup unknown nash who he thought had potential…… Acie Law=nash2.0? Highly unlikely… different players… but he could be better than we think
yes, but that still would be a huge assumption
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
Don't wish to argue
But there’s no way the Dubs can trade Crawford until after he opts out. He’s treated like a Free Agent. I’m sure he’s not opting out or anything, but at the same time, this trade can’t be completed until July 9th. They’re just announcing it now for whatever reason.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Or until he decides on his option is what I meant (in the first line)
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
now whats the rule on trading claxton?
do we still have to wait 2 months, december 15? or since he hasnt suited up, ASAP
There isn't a rule
The reason Crawford can’t be traded is his option. That means until July 1st he can’t be traded because he’s considered a Free Agent until his option to opt out expires.
Once he’s not opted out, than the July Moratorium kicks in and you can’t complete a deal until July 9th.
I’m not implying there’s a holdup in the deal. I personally think the Warriors are doing this to take Crawford’s salary off the books.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
According to the Talking Points link, if Crawford signs paperwork saying he won’t opt out, the deal can go through now.
That's media BS
They haven’t changed the rule regarding opt-out’s. It just means they’re announcing it.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
For sure
I’m not a big TK reader by any means, just read it trying to educate myself on how likely it is to actually go through.
If they announce it
That’s the protection the teams have for reneging. But there is no legal way they can finish it until July 9th.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
So those who were hoping
For the deal to somehow be worked out overnight and for the pieces to be packaged with the 7 pick for a vet or to move up are going to be disappointed.
they finished the wolves wizards deal when etan thomas waived his ability to opt out.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
That's media crap too
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
thomas signed paperwork (if my understanding is correct). and the wolves might deal the #5 pick.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Let me learn you sumthin young pimp
Thomas signed off saying he wouldn’t opt out. They can’t trade him until July 9th. But that doesn’t mean they can’t finish the deal. It just really means that they’re doing this in 2 separate deals.
Pecherov and the 5th pick for Foye is the first trade. Songalia/Thomas and Miller is the 2nd trade.
For media purposes they’re announcing it as one trade. However, the reality is that it’s actually two.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Crawford agrees to waive his opt-out, he can be traded immediately. That isn’t changing the rule or “media BS”. It’s the terms in the CBA. It’s the rule that’s always been there.
Given that this deal (if it’s just the players, not some combo of players and picks) seems to be all about getting rid of Crawford’s contract for the Warriors and the parts coming here are just placeholders until their deals expire (all speculation about Acie Law being someone Nelson once wanted before it was clear that he sucked) waiting on the opt-out makes sense. He opts out? Warriors get what they wanted in not having him on the books. He doesn’t? Warriors get his salary equivalent off the books in a year and possibly get a chance to use the expiring deals to be to go shopping when other teams want the expiring deals.
Yeah really?
Where. Show it to me.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Show me this rule that exempts that
The other stuff is what it is. It’s all about money, and I’ve said that already. Hence, I already knew it.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
and I answered
Nothing. Claxton could be traded yesterday.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
No problem
I see why it was misleading.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Even if he DOES opt out and the trade falls through
We still get 20 mil off the books! It’s a win win situation, no matter how you look at it.
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
by JustSomeName on Jun 24, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
That is the way I look at it LOL
But, I’m not a Dubs fan anyway so the point is moot to me.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
when i first seen it i was hopeing it was j smooth. but speedy and acie
jamal was a ture professional.
by Belinelli's the savior on Jun 24, 2009 3:23 PM PDT reply actions
Hedo?
Update- 1. Blake 2. Hasheem 3. Rubio 4. Jonny Flynn 5. James Harden 6. Stephen Curry 7.Tyreke Evans 8. Brandon Jennings 9. DeMar DeRozen 10: Jordan Hill
Monta/ Rocky/Quiet Storm
Tyreke/AMMo/Crawford
Stephen/MAGGS/Azu
AR/Wright
Goose/Ronny
I don’t think this is a Marcus Williams Pt. 2 because the Ws really really liked Acie when he was in the draft. They liked him so much they were going to trade away Monta Ellis just so they could get the pick to draft him. I think I remember reading that rumor on this site, too bad I can’t find it though =(
by shakenbakeuhear on Jun 24, 2009 3:37 PM PDT reply actions
now lets trade maggette and #7 to T-wolves for williams, carney, #18 and #28
then decline team option on both of them
Acie Law does not = Marcus Williams 2.0
Let’s not forget that Acie Law was a lottery pick and hasn’t really been given a chance. Out of all the Hawks games I saw this year on league pass I didn’t see him get consistent minutes. Not really a true PG though more of a combo guard like the rest of em.
umm
Marcus Williams was a 1st round pick (granted, not lottery) who wasn’t really given a chance….. I like Law a lot more than ever like Williams, but, as jae has pointed out, 2.0 is supposed to mean a new improved version, so Law could be Williams 2.0 and be good
Thing A
Alan Hahn is reporting that Stephen Curry may be behind four guards on Minnesota’s big board. I don’t know that I’m buying that.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 24, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
i posted this in the fanposts already
it could be all smoke, but it also could be a possibility…
i think the wolves are for sure drafting evans and they may see curry as more of a 2 than a 1, which could jepordize the curry/evans backcourt combo
Gerald Madkins
Rubio, Evans, Harden, Flynn
I See it…. But I think a Evans/Curry backcourt would be interesting to see how it works out. Two 2 playing the two? Er, sort of.
GSOM- Where Education From Debate Happens
by The Dedication on Jun 24, 2009 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
minny is high
obviously on rubio but they also really like flynn.
i think that its a strong possibility than minny drafts flynn and evans…that is if rubio is off the board by then
Gerald Madkins
that would mean curry and hill would both be available at the 7 spot.
the draft could go something like this:
1. griffin
2. thabeet
3. rubio
4. harden
5. evans
6. flynn
7. hill or curry
however if thunder pick harden instead of rubio…rubio will fall to the wolves because kings are not impressed by rubio. the draft could also go something like this as well.
1. griffin
2. thabeet
3. harden
4. evans
5. rubio
6. flynn
7. curry or hill
either way, curry and hill will be available if its true that minny is not intrested in curry…
Gerald Madkins
Naw.....
I don’t think that they would get Rubio AND Flynn…. A Little too small….. They’d prolly have to go wit Curry cuz they’d have two 1’s playing
GSOM- Where Education From Debate Happens
by The Dedication on Jun 24, 2009 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah youre right i made a mistake
in that scenario curry would go 6, wed draft hill, and flynn would probably drop to the knicks…
Gerald Madkins