Report: Amare trade stalled; S. Curry NOT in deal; NBA Exec: "Likely Won't Happen"
by RayAlmeda on Jun 25, 2009 10:46 PM PDT
271 comments
It looks like the trade that most Warrior fans want to happen, involving the Suns' Amare Stoudemire, has hit a stumbling block.
CBS Sportsline's Ken Berger reports (paraphrased)
1.) Stephen Curry is NOT a part of the deal as the trade was being constructed Thursday night.
2.) One league executive with knowledge of the trade situation said that "LIKELY WON'T HAPPEN"
Of course, we have till July 1st that Biedrins/etc/etc could get traded because of Biedrins' base-year compensation status, but if the Warriors can't pull this off and the duo-guard tandem doesn't work for the Warriors in the long run. Then can we discuss the Warriors inept decision-making to bring big game-changers like Stoudemire and Garnett as being the biggest brick-walls towards getting to the next level... a championship?
Taking a cue from Larry the Cable guy... c'mon Warriors... GIT R Done!
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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I'd like to keep Curry.
lets trade for Bosh…I wana RENT-A-BOSH
Its time for a change...
by RunNdGun on Jun 25, 2009 10:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
me too. at least Bosh can’t possibly be worse than Amare on defense… can he?
by homer simpson on Jun 25, 2009 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bosh is wayy better at D,than Amare.
he has a better offensively too.
Its time for a change...
by RunNdGun on Jun 25, 2009 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he has a more diverse offensive game but he doesn’t score nearly as efficiently as Stoudemire. why do you say he’s better defensively?
Thing A
"no homo"
by sam23 on Jun 25, 2009 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
because he thinks
that andris is one of the best rebounders in the league when in fact he isnt and it only seems that way because his numbers are inflated by being on the warriors.
amare will rebound just fine with our team.
with ellis healthy and randolph startin our rebounding will go up either way in those two positions
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 25, 2009 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
andris is a great rebounder
and even when amare played center he wasn’t a great rebounder. you can make the being on the warriors argument but if he was not a great rebounder he wouldn’t been able to rebound with al jefferson ,yao ming etc when we play people like that. so he obviously is a good rebounder
by dubzfan on Jun 25, 2009 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What measure, other than the demonstrated ability to get a lot of rebounds, do you judge someone to be one of the best rebounders in the league or not?
Are you falling victim to the old, tired, and more or less worthless “his numbers are inflated because no one else on the team gets rebounds” line that somehow applies to Andris, but strangely didn’t improve Turiaf’s rebounding one iota when he was the only big in the lineup. If so, how do you explain how it benefited Andris and not Ronny? Seriously, the “inflated rebounds”? It’s a tired, bogus, not at all well thought through line and without an explanation, your charge of “inflated rebounds” (which, for what it’s worth, count just as much as any other since he really did get the ball) rings real real hollow and meaningless.
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
okay fine
even if his rebounds are not ‘inflated’ he is a terrible defender. id much rather have amare regardless of his defensive abilities he is a proven all star offensive power house.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 26, 2009 12:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but that's just it
who says we need a powerhouse? the hawks don’t have a power house player and they turned out fine. and monta and randolph both could be a power house
by dubzfan on Jun 26, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wouldnt call the hawks
a good team
they’re in the east!
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 26, 2009 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the east? you mean the conference with the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best teams in the league right now? that west>east stuff is almost completely over.
Thing A
"no homo"
by sam23 on Jun 26, 2009 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not really
the west has more depth.
look at the suns, they would have been 5th in the east
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 26, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
6 of the 7 worst teams in the league were in the West.
Thing A
"no homo"
by sam23 on Jun 26, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is an argument that the lower teams were less bad in the East, and your other argument is that the very top teams were better in the East. But I think judging the conferences by the level of the borderline playoff teams is the best way. I mean, a year ago, the Warriors were left out with 48 wins. I’m pretty sure Boston had the best record (though I could be mistaken), but the West was still tougher. Does it matter how bad the worst teams are, they are not that important to judging the overall level of the conference.
I’d say the gap is closing, but until the 8th place team in the East can manage a winning record, I’d rather play in the East.
by belilaugh on Jun 26, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats why I said the west>east stuff is almost over. The East seems to have more really elite contending teams, fewer borderline contending teams, and fewer really bad teams right. I agree that all probably adds up to the West still being stronger overall, but I was just saying you can no longer say a team isn’t very good simply because they are in the East.
Thing A
"no homo"
by sam23 on Jun 26, 2009 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think overall the East had a winning record against the West. That’s one way to look at it, probably the least arbitrary way to look at overall strength top to bottom.
How you want to grade the conferences beyond that is somewhat arbitrary depending on what you want to look at. You can say that the low level playoff teams weren’t as good in the east (and they probably weren’t, though they had a slightly tougher schedule by playing Orlando and Boston and Cleveland a few more times and not having the bottom feeders in the West to beat up on), but there were more bottom feeders in the west.
Phoenix (9 in the west) would have been 5th in the West, but GS (10th in the West) would have been 14th in the East, ahead of only Washington. The middle teams in the middle of the playoff hunt who didn’t make it were in general stronger in the East.
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"...but strangely didn’t improve Turiaf’s rebounding one iota when he was the only big in the lineup."
Maybe because when Turiaff was in the lineup he was going for blocks and not rebounds. When Biedrins is in, he goes for the rebounds, not the blocks!
Honestly, Biedrins defense is definitely lacking so I won’t take away from the only thing he can hang a hat on which is his knack for grabbing boards! His offense, aside from being spoon-fed, still isn’t there. Add in poor free-throw shooting and all we have is a rebounder!
Geeez Louf*ckingweeez!!!
by scottiepimppen on Jun 26, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
jae, I deeply value you 're opinion on the game
probably more so than anyone who posts here. How do you feel about the trade?
by myk on Jun 26, 2009 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am very, very mixed. I am probably against it, because it’s tough to add a big, big salary for a player who is older.
My concerns:
- A 6 year extension (what Amare will want) takes him into his 30s with an escalating salary. Players who base their game on explosiveness and athleticism (and that definitely describes Amare) can decline a whole lot. Think of Shawn Kemp, whose game went to pot about the same age Amare is. Amare doesn’t look to be getting Kemp-fat, so maybe this is worrying about something too much too soon, but I still do not expect him to be close to the player that he is now in 3 or 4 years, but we’d be paying him a lot more. The potential for carrying a disastrous contract is not negligible.
- When basing it largely on an Andris for Amare swap:
Even though Andris is probably close to his peak, it’s much much more likely that we’ve seen the peak of Stoudemire. Andris might have slightly elevated rebound stats (though I do not believe it’s significant for reasons I’ve stated elsewhere) that makes him look a bit more valuable than he is. Stoudemire does show a marked decline in his production without Nash. His FG% drops down much closer to average for a PF/C when Nash sits. It’s still good, but it’s not amazing. His offense is highly dependent on his point guard, and no one we have is remotely comparable to Nash nor likely ever will be. It’s important when looking at the comparison what we’d actually get vs. what we’d actually be giving up.
the other parts of the trade:
In general, I suspect that all of these players are unlikely to be the sort of heavy impact players here to block this deal, though I do like Curry quite a bit and think that Brandan will be a reasonably productive player, if given the chance (not that he’s likely to see it with Randolph ahead of him). Still, all of the other names are young and those already in the league will improve *some.
The upside:
*If it’s not all Nash, Stoudemire is a much more effective and efficient offensive player than Andris and one of those guys that other teams actually worry about. His peak productivity gets you close to that “player good enough to win a championship with”. It might not be there, but it’s close. That’s his peak though. The version we saw last year wasn’t close to that. That version was a whiny punk who cried and stopped rebounding when he had to share the ball with another big.
Stoudemire is a better, more valuable player, but I don’t know if he’s worth the max, and that’s what it will take. In terms of the bulk of the deal though, it’s still largely Andris at 23 through 28 locked in at $7mil less than Stoudemire will want to command in his first year VS. Stoudemire at 27 through 33. It’s a close call in my opinion, but I tend to lean towards not making it, but I could be persuaded otherwise.
(and if there’s no extension worked out for Stoudemire beforehand, I’m 100% against it as the potential to give away the farm for a one year rental is just too much. We could not buy back a player of Andris’s calibre on the open market for what we saved, not here in GS where we’d have to pay the “you’re playing for Cohan” surcharge.)
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Rec...
That’s as good of an analysis of the trade as I’ve read yet. Can’t find anything I disagree with.
If we did do the deal I’d definitely find things to be excited about, but as it stands I think I’d be a little gun-shy if it were up to me to pull the trigger.
Thing 2
by olympicmike on Jun 26, 2009 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the response! Completely agree.
Another thing that worries me is whether or not Amar’e would affect the offensive growth of AR. I really feel that with Biedrins, AR is put in a position to take the low post scoring load for our team, which will make him better. I feel that Biedrins as a complement is better for AR, thus better for the team. Maybe not this year, but for years to come, certainly. AR would be the complement to Amar’e, which is good this year, but I feel detrimental to AR over all.
This also seems like a move that Rowell and Cohan would push because season ticket sales are so low…
I really like our squad and would like to see them get a real chance to play together since last year was a fluke. That being said, would it be possible for us to wait and make the trade later? Because I think the ideal situation for us would be to wait ‘til December/January, see where the team is, see where Amar’e is, and determine if the trade should be made. Could we do that?
by myk on Jun 26, 2009 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
randolph was interviewed yesterday
and he said one of the players he modeled his game after and looked up to other than KG was Amare
i think amare can help AR’s game in golden state!
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 26, 2009 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also think AR will be better than Amar'e in 2-4 years and
Biedrins is more valuable at the center spot now and he will only become more valuable as time progresses
by myk on Jun 26, 2009 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amare doesn’t seem like the type who would want to be a mentor for a younger player at the moment. Ultimately, this would lead to Stat having to compete for touches, and we’ve already seen what happens when he’s coupled with another effective big man.
Maybe it would work when he’s on his way out of the league, but that’s not happening anytime soon.
by WYK on Jun 26, 2009 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think its more
playing against amare in practice and seeing him daily would only help randolph
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 26, 2009 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
More details to remember...
The deal can’t go through until July 1, and Stoudemire needs to agree to a contract extension with Golden State, which can’t be signed until July 8.
Golden State Warriors fan since 1984. The Filipino sensation!
The loudest Warrior fan in Section 208, Row DS, Seats 15-16.
by RayAlmeda on Jun 25, 2009 10:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I THINK...
that the contract extension is the biggest hangup, otherwise, they’d pull the trigger. If they knew Amare would sign a contract extension before drafting Curry, I’m sure they would have traded the #7 pick (hopefully in exchange for #14 too) to get him, knowing full well that the Sun would draft Curry. But because they weren’t sure that Amare would sign an extension, we drafted Curry. It’s strategy. For 1) we get a damn good player and 2) we get a damn good bargaining chip.
Do we really need Curry, when they’ve been talking about Monta playing the #1? And do we really need Curry, when we got the most accurate 3-pt. shooter in the league last year in Morrow?
I’m curious just like everyone else to see how this all plays out. I think either way we come out as winners! Amare would just bring an immediate impact while Curry will be the future! I want a winning team NOW, not LATER!
Geeez Louf*ckingweeez!!!
by scottiepimppen on Jun 26, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup yup the more I think about it I'm not a fan of the trade
Beans, BWright, Buike, Belinelli, and Curry are all quality players with plenty of room to improve
by T-Money on Jun 25, 2009 11:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
none are quality players
beans is a decent starter….bwright is a work in progress….buike is a backup….belli is a backup….curry is a draft pick thats a combo guard and will likely be a backup for a while
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 25, 2009 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
buike is a starter or backup
and curry is a backup ealy on but eventually will start
by dubzfan on Jun 25, 2009 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
buki is a backup
he would never start for any legit team (team that makes it to third round playoffs)
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 25, 2009 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah but he's still a quality back up
Azubuike? More like Azucutie!
by goldenstatelove on Jun 26, 2009 3:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
3rd rd of playoffs=
conference finals…. 4 teams a yr make the conference finals. From this last year here is a short list of teams who didn’t make the conference finals: BOS, SAS, PORT, N.ORL, UT, DAL, CHI… you may argue that some of those teams aren’t ‘legit’, but please- there are more than 4 ‘legit’ teams in the league.
Keep in mind Buike’s better days are still ahead of him. Even if he isn’t a member of the starting 5 (by your standards), he is still a very good player who we would be wise to hold on to.
Chris Cohan- YOU'RE FIRED!
by bonbrillio on Jun 27, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow LostBrainSJSU
If you are going to chew up and spit out perceived QUALITY players, then you might want to give some sort of support for your arguement. Buike shoots the three at a very high % (over 40% for much of last season) and is a good defender.
Bwright was injured but if you remember before the injury, he was playing extremely well and was finally showing his potential.
Belli was getting real minutes for the first time last year and was producing when he was on the court before his injury as well. It was basically his rookie season last year and he was playing at a high level for a rookie.
And finally Curry has proved he can shine on the biggest sports stages (March Madness Tournament) as he averaged 30 pts for game and passed the ball well with very little talent around him.
So why not give this team one year together to see if they can mesh? With Ellis and Law dishing dimes to some of the best shooters in the league (Morrow, Belli, Buike, and not but not least Cpt. Jack), taking it to the rim (Ellis is one of the best drivers in the league), or dishing it to the most athletic big men (Randolph, BWright, Beans), this team has plenty of talent and should definitely get a year to see what they can accomplish
by reppin510 on Jun 26, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LostBrain?
good one. but giving up 3 average players for 1 all star is a no brainer. bellineli is a dime a dozen SG. buki is a great backup at best. andris is a great player, but i fear he has reached his limit. his limitations are very glaring and haven’t improved much at all.
giving up belli andris wright should be an instant trade as long as the contract we negotiate is reasonable. if we can somehow get earl clark from them, all the better.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 26, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would
do this deal if amare had two healthy knees and a healthy eyeball.
by saintdee on Jun 25, 2009 11:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
At least give the OG Dubs one healthy year to run together...
Don’t you want to know if Monta, Jack, Buike, AR, AB can be a legit starting 5? I think they are going to wreck shop in the west. With Wright, Morrow, Belli, Maggs, Rony and CJ off the bench and healthy I think we are legit contenders.
At least for one year I have to see if they can do it.
Anyway, Amare is too busted for me to give him max money. MAX MONEY. Just think about how the Rockets are suffering. Max money to a player who doesn’t see half the games.
I’ll pass.
by dxc13 on Jun 25, 2009 11:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The rockets have max money to two of them, actually.
-I was wrong about Pau Gasol. I have been shamed. :(
by Prevenge on Jun 25, 2009 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank God
I don’t want to trade Curry
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by i love sports101 on Jun 25, 2009 11:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
SERIOUSLY
we NEED to do this trade. people need to wake up from this dream world they are living in where marco belineli becomes pistol peet and wright becomes the sky hook master and andris becomes an all star
all these guys are pretty bad on any other team.
amare is a star on ANY team he goes to. we need to make this happen, we need a star on this team at near any cost.
a realistic trade would be Andris + law + wright + curry or belli for Amare + Earl Clark.
if we can make this happen we MUST DO IT. i dont know how people can say they would rather have curry and andris or whoever else than amare. amare is a proven all star. he is a proven top 3 PF in the whole league and a franchise changer if put with the right supporting cast and coach.
amare would be an ideal fit in nellies run and gun system and his rebounding numbers would be inflated by being on this team just like andris’s rebounding numbers. with randolph along his side they will be a force to be reckoned with.
make it happen dubbs! AMARE to the bay MOVEMENT!
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 25, 2009 11:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Biedrins is bad on another team?
Thing A
"no homo"
by sam23 on Jun 25, 2009 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i dont mean bad
but not nearly as good. his rebounding numbers are extremely inflated by being on the warriors, as would be amare’s if he joined us.
either way all im trying to say is that people really need to wake up and realize that the only way this team is going to improve is to make big moves to get a superstar on this team, and that is amare
people like belineli are a dime a dozen in the league and everything and anything must be done to get a player like amare here to actually make a legit run deep in the playoffs
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 25, 2009 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Inflated
To counter your inflated argument, Amare plays for the Suns, the team the shoots in 7 seconds or less, so it wouldn’t that mean his numbers would also be inflated? I dont know who plays at a faster pace but I would think its pretty close and Amare has never once averaged double digit rebounds in his career.
by tandy on Jun 25, 2009 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Better to counter his “argument” (such that it is).
Why was Turiaf’s rebounding not at all “inflated” by playing for the Warriors in the manner LostHawk proposes had influence on Andris’s numbers?
Rebound rates are among the most consistent statistic from year to year independent of the team that a player plays on. I realize that LostHawk would like to deny or flat out ignore this, but his ignorance doesn’t make it less true.
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
turiaf doesnt rebound
he tips the ball to other players. thats why his rebounding numbers have not changed.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 26, 2009 12:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is not an argument. It’s a cop out. Your argument was that on the Warriors, as the only big, Andris’s rebounding was “inflated” (whatever that means since he really did get the rebounds). Turiaf doesn’t rebound so his rebounds weren’t inflated? Do you realize how pathetic that “reasoning” looks?
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
how is that pathetic?
watch the game. turiaf is not trying to rebound the ball. he is trying to get it to his teammates if it is contested.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 26, 2009 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is pathetic because it is inconsistent with the evidence. If Turiaf wasn’t rebounding, but still managed to get the ball to teammates for them to rebound in an “inflated” manner, then the team shouldn’t see a significant net decline in rebound rates when Turiaf is in. But they do. His own rebound rate is basically identical to what it was in LA and when he’s in, the Warriors are nowhere near as good a rebounding team as they are with Andris in. If he was effective in tipping the ball to teammates, the team’s rate should not suffer as it does.
Please, you are fighting a battle against actual evidence. You are beginning to embarrass yourself.
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 12:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In other words:
Turiaf is a bad rebounder because he doesn’t rebound the ball and Biedrins is a good one because he rebaounds the ball even if it is contested?
by NextSeason on Jun 26, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i dont see
how you, of all people, could be against this trade. weren’t you the one saying that we need a star on this team to make it better? weren’t you the one saying that no one on the team should be untouchable if we can get an all star?
are you against this trade or are you just being nit picky with what im saying and just ignoring the entire point of what i originally posted? maybe i said one thing wrong, but my point was that we should do whatever it takes to get a star on this team.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 26, 2009 12:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
star? maybe, but amare is not a franchise changer. he’s the second best player on a contender. he was the best player on a phoenix team that had plenty of talent and even before he got hurt, that team was not a championship contender.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was I the one who was saying that we need a “star?” Doesn’t sound like something I’d say. I’ve said that we need more productive players and to win a championship, you need one of a very, very limited number of ultra productive players (of which Stoudemire hasn’t quite shown himself to be FWIW). I don’t tend to use terms like ‘star’, but perhaps you can find somewhere where I said it. I’d urge you to find it though rather than rely on your memory as I suspect it’s faulty.
The term “star” doesn’t mean that much to me. By itself, it’s a popularity contest. Production is what matters. We need more productive players. I’ve said that and I’ll say it again. It’s possible that this alleged trade would do it for us, but it’s iffy. It’s especially iffy if it takes a tremendous amount of money to secure Stoudemire’s services for the long term.
We would gain production from Stoudemire, but lose some from getting rid of Andris. You discount what Andris brings to the table. You assert that his numbers are inflated without basis and with some rather glaring inconsistencies of reason. You use rather lousy, rather easy to discredit arguments that you are quick to abandon for blanket assertion of opinion. Whether or not you like it, I’m going to challenge blanket assertion of opinion when it runs counter to empirical evidence.
I don’t know what I think of the rumored trade. It’s tough. I think in general I’m not for it but it’s a close call. It’s certainly not night and day.
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 12:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
okay
like i said, maybe i was wrong in what i said in one part of my statement. but overall i still think its a must do trade for the warriors if they can get it right.
do we really lose that much in rebounding? andris averages what? 11 rbs this last season, with a carreer of 8….amare averages 8 with a career of 9.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1727
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2427
i just dont see why people are saying that the rebounding will take a dramatic dive if we lose andris especially since ellis will be playing, randolph will be starting, and we have jack at the 2 (possibly) or even morrow who has been an excellent rebounder for a SG.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 26, 2009 12:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dont worry
Those are called haters.
Just turn the cheek, and show up to the games, because they will too ;)
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha i guess
i just dont see why people keep saying we will lose rebounding??
amare has a higher career average for rebounding
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 26, 2009 1:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he has a higher career average because andrid didn't play as
much early on
by dubzfan on Jun 26, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please educate yourself on “per minute rates” vs “per game” rates. Figure out where the minutes Stoudemire is going to get will come from (hint, it has to be more than just Biedrins’) and then figure out how many rebounds that negates based on the rates and time played for the players whose minutes he’s replacing. This will give you a number that means something. The comparison of per game averages you are using does not mean anything.
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mostly agree with you but when comparing Biedrins don’t you also have to account for the 5 fouls per 36 that Biedrins averages? Couldn’t the fact that Amare is much better than Biedrins at staying on the floor make Amare’s per game averages slightly more significant than in most player comparisons? I’m probably missing something pretty obvious here.
Thing A
"no homo"
by sam23 on Jun 26, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, do worry.
Intellectual laziness, ignorance, stubborn adherence to unfounded “opinions” — these are serious conditions that, unchecked, can plague people their whole life. And they tend to get worse with age.
“Haters” = kind folks like jae who have the intellect and the patience to help others treat this condition.
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Jun 26, 2009 6:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats funny....
MANY find his approach and manner simply obnoxious and rude….
You can have all the intellect in the world, however if you have the social graces of a rotting corpse, most people tend to ignore any quality that may be contained within.
I have no doubt that JAE knows his stuff, but I personally find his approach typical of many people on the net, that feel they can say what they like to people on screen, that which they may not get away with in person….
Instead of continually abusing people by whatever name he wishes to throw at them, he could be considerably more constructive with his thoughts without being so “intellectually hostile”.
Also your assumption that his “intellect” may be superior to the person his is chastising is also a misconception and arrogant.
Just a counter balance view of Jae and his postings…..
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Jun 26, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BritWarrior
you always have constructive things to say :)
JAE always has arrogant things to say.
i’ve gotten pretty used to it.
btw, what are your views on the amare thing?
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 26, 2009 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
JAE always has arrogant things to say.
You are confusing “arrogant” with “thought through and supported by actual evidence”. I know it’s a tough one for some people wrap their brain around and they confuse having their poorly thought through and unsupported statements challenged to be a result of arrogance, but it isn’t. I suggest you look up what the word “arrogant” actually means. It does not seem like you have a good grasp on what it means.
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure....on the trade....
I have to say I though Andris started the season well, but just seemed to lose the plot halfway through the year. I am not 100% he will become an All-Star. Equally I am not 100% Amare is the right fit…..Yes if he was fully fit and pumped about being here then yes I think it would be good. But I see Andris having more passion for this club. I fear Amare will simply take a paycheck this year, keep himself out of harms way (i.e. not try to hard) in order to move to one of the big teams next year when he is an FA……so yes I think it could work for us short term, but I think if we are looking longer term we should stick with Beans….
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Jun 27, 2009 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no doubt that JAE knows his stuff, but I personally find his approach typical of many people on the net, that feel they can say what they like to people on screen, that which they may not get away with in person….
Is this some sort of threat? Are you implying that I wouldn’t challenge ridiculous mathematical errors and errors of logic in person? What makes you assume this?
Instead of continually abusing people by whatever name he wishes to throw at them, he could be considerably more constructive with his thoughts without being so "intellectually hostile".
You are confusing “abuse” with “correcting unfound assertions”. I do not assume my intellect is superior, but I can demonstrate that my analysis is more complete and more accurate.
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me clarify ....
Calling peoples views “pathetic”, “lame”, etc etc there have been many more. No other answer to that other than rudeness, and yes that is abusing someone.
As to threats, not at all, just a statement of fact, it is HIGHLY likely that if you were having a face to face conversation with someone you may “choose” not to call them “pathetic” to their face. Or you may….. but in person you may suffer the consequences. For example if you spoke to me the way I have seen you speak to some people on hear in person… I would have ZERO hesitation in putting you on your ass. You have zero social graces on this board and yes you obviously do have and enjoy your statistical analysis of the game, but you should also have the good grace to have some bloody manners.
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Jun 27, 2009 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You seem to take too much ownership. I do not tend to call people lame or pathetic. I reserve that for the arguments that they put forward when the arguments (such that they warrant being regarded as such) are lame and pathetic. Not all views are equally valid and certainly not all presentations of opinions are equally strong. It’s not kindergarten. This isn’t show and tell where everyone gets the gold star for saying something.
You appear to be threatening me, BritWarriorGSW. Threatening to “put me on my ass” is a threat. It’s a cute tough guy routine. Don’t do it again. I will take it seriously and there will be consequences.
by jae on Jun 27, 2009 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
Amare averages .7 rebounds more per game in 10 minutes more per game
by theimmortalbenard on Jun 26, 2009 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are confusing per game numbers with per minute rates. Since there are a limited number of minutes to go around in a game, the per minute rate gives a much much much more accurate assessment of relative rebounding abilities. The comparison of “per game” numbers for players with rather unequal “per game minutes” doesn’t tell us enough.
Amare’s career average of about 9 comes in 34 minutes of playing time. If he entirely replaced Biedrin’s minutes, his average would not replace what Andris has provided. To get to his career avg in minutes, he’d be taking all of Biedrins’ minute AND someone else’s, someone who very, very, very likely didn’t average negative something rebounds.
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
who said marco is pistol pete?
and who said wright is a sky hook master? some people just think we are giving up to much for a guy who is injury prone, won’t be as good without nash, and he is not a guy who can take us to the next level. he will bring more media but i don’t think he brings us any further then the first round
by dubzfan on Jun 25, 2009 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And get butts in the seats for a season or two.
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
by qin on Jun 26, 2009 7:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
cuz that's been a problem recently?
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
by Supafishal on Jun 26, 2009 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thier STH renewal for next season is way low, this would be just the type of panic move they would make for revenues.
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
by qin on Jun 26, 2009 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly right!
I don’t think Nellie or Riley want this move, but I bet Cohan and Rowell are trying really hard to make it happen.
by myk on Jun 26, 2009 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s the sort of panic move that they think would increase sales though studies indicate that the payoff won’t be as great as they think.
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amar'e To the Oakland A's!
Make it happen.
by GoldenStateGuerrero on Jun 26, 2009 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he is a proven top 3 PF in the whole league and a franchise changer if put with the right supporting cast and coach.
probably not if you factor in defense.
his rebounding numbers would be inflated by being on this team just like andris’s rebounding numbers.
it’s not like he was playing on a slow team… PHX to GSW would be going from 4th to 1st (based on last season).
definitely should get Amare if we can though. just surprised because you’d think PHX has no leverage considering Robert Sarver (their owner) isn’t giving Amare the max contract he wants – so he’ll be gone at the end of the season for nothing…..
i was whatevers on trading Curry at 1st, but after hearing Bob Knight thinks he’s a great passer, i’m a little curious to look at him at the PG spot… if he’s better at PG than Monta, things could get interesting…
b/c if Curry can run the point anything like Nash, wouldn’t it make more sense to trade Monta than to trade Andris?
by homer simpson on Jun 25, 2009 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bob Knight
said that Curry was the best passer in college history. That’s a lie and we all know that. Love Bob Knight, but no, don’t let that curve your opinion
GSOM- Where Education From Debate Happens
by The Dedication on Jun 26, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
amare would be an ideal fit in nellies run and gun system and his rebounding numbers would be inflated by being on this team just like andris’s rebounding numbers.
Why weren’t Turiaf’s rebound numbers ‘inflated’?
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or Harrington's...
Or Powell’s, or Austin Croshere’s, or any other big man that’s come through this system.
Thing 2
by olympicmike on Jun 26, 2009 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
all these guys are pretty bad on any other team.
That is pretty far from the truth. They would all play much better in a structured environment that teaches it’s players fundamentals and allows them to develop on the defensive end. Marco would benefit most from this as he is an extremely willing passer, which is not helpful to Don Nelson’s mind. Wright needs structure as well.
Biedrins would probably be the guy to play miserably as he does not have the skills to play in a non Don Nelson type of system.
Cause Havoc. Bring Nash in and 120 point games will be very expected
by montadaboss on Jun 26, 2009 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. keep this young core alive.
Don't trade Stephen Curry Movement
by Sinigang on Jun 25, 2009 11:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
no
i like biedrins but if its biedrins belli and wright you have to. i do not want to involve curry in that deal at all
by hoopscorer23 on Jun 25, 2009 11:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Personally...
Anything that gives us a chance NOW… because we all know it will take years for Nelson to develop ANY of our young core guys. If we’re going to win a championship with Nellie, in his style of basketball, this is the move.
I’d rather have Amare against Boozer/Ming/Duncan/Oden/Jefferson/Bynum than Biedrins.
Morrow is the key backup guard we keep here (canceling out Belinelli).
Buike will be missed, but he’s another tweener 2/3 that we have plenty of.
And Wright? We wanted to believe in him after the J-rich trade shocked all of Dub nation… but Randolph’s the guy at the 4.
Golden State Warriors fan since 1984. The Filipino sensation!
The loudest Warrior fan in Section 208, Row DS, Seats 15-16.
by RayAlmeda on Jun 25, 2009 11:41 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
totally agree with this. i dont know how people can be against this trade.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 26, 2009 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buike wouldn't be in the trade
At least the one ESPN says Curry/Beans/Wright and/or Belli…. No Buike. I’m all for the trade, but if we get to keep Buike, pull that trigger faster than a cop!
GSOM- Where Education From Debate Happens
by The Dedication on Jun 26, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hi everyone
Remember me? Yeah I was the guy telling you’ll to put the pipe down on Bosh (sorry not as good as Amare, maybe one day… today no thx)
As far as I am concerned trade the Warrior girls, move the WArriors to Fremont I dont give a cacca…..Amare Stoudemire IMEDIATLY makes the Warriors from playoff hopefulls, to potential…. contenders.
Amare is 110% everything the Warriors need. They need that EXPLOSIVE front court man that is going to rip heads, and feed them to the children in the front row.
I hope we can keep Curry, I think we will, because I dont think Don Nelson can part ways with him.
All I gotta say lastly is if Curry and Amare are on the same team….. people are going to have to do 2 – 3 times more suicide sprints in preperation because i think we are going to have the first ever retractable roof NBA ARENA in the league just to make sure the noise gets out and doesn’t collapse the place…..
Say tuned, and please dont bring down this thread is Chris Bosh (Basically ANthony Randolph… why do you want 2 of the same players people… PLEASE THINK BEFORE YOU POST)
by sjboy on Jun 25, 2009 11:42 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Chris Bosh (Basically ANthony Randolph…
AR looks promising, but let’s not get carried away.
by homer simpson on Jun 25, 2009 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Of course, he is 19 years old, youngest player (well used to be) in the NBA, its easy for you to sit there and say chill.
well I have 2 eyes, and so do NBA players who all say the same thing, and he has shown CONSISTENTLY that he can handle the rock (im sorry Bosh actually cant do that), shoot, and run the floor, and is working on a post game.
Look I respect your opinion, but you gotta see my point when I say the Warriors are keeping Randolph for the future, and his game is going to be a spitting image of Bosh in the future, why would you want to get Bosh to disrupt that and take away his minutes? (Amare can play the 5 in the Western Conference, and is proven) Bosh cant.
by sjboy on Jun 25, 2009 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he has not shown “consistently” that he can shoot, his TS% is horrible & his %’s outside of 8 ft is in the low 30s. when handling the ball, he had severe TO problems which became better when he played more PF like and less SF like.
he’s got to score much more efficiently while turning the ball over a lot less over more minutes just to get into Bosh territory statistically.
by homer simpson on Jun 26, 2009 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Homer
I hope you dont have kids, because I think you would expect them to talk/walk/bath themselves at 6 months lol
You are harsh. Did you watch Bosh his first year? Ok, calm down bro lol
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 12:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
randolph, on the offensive end, isn’t chris bosh. he doesn’t CONSISTENTLY shoot and handle the ball well. he turns the ball over often and misses a lot of jump shots. he should develop into an excellent player, but to say that he’s as good as chris bosh offensively (despite your change in argument when homer told you that you were wrong) is just not true. he has work to do in that area, and that’s pretty much what homer said.
and of course, there’s the little issue that he’d need to regress as a rebounder and a shot blocker to be the “spitting image of bosh in the future”.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 12:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
didnt he
improve as he got more and more playing time? and didnt he only have like 1 turn over the last two months of play or something crazy like that?
his jumper was very consistent the last few months of play as well.
not saying this will for sure continue, but i have high hopes for AR!
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 26, 2009 12:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’m just saying he has work to do and isn’t as good as chris bosh offensively. do you really disagree with that?
i’d also quibble with the assertation that his jumper was “consistent” during the last month of the year. he just shot less jump shots and saw his shooting percentage go up. that shot looked better, but wasn’t exactly good.
and for the record he turned the ball over 30 times in march and april of last year.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree
and by 1 turnover i meant 1t/o per game
but ya, he isnt as good as bosh right now. but many here believe he has the tools to be better.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 26, 2009 1:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the kid was 19yrs old
lol, he played alot better then Bosh did his rookie year when he got consistent minutes as far as I am concerned and he didnt play with a superstar like Vince Carter to get him open looks.
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
woops
this isnt averaged out on per 36
either way, 3 boards per game will be made up by randolph and ellis being healthy
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 26, 2009 1:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
his jumper was very consistent the last few months of play as well.
No, no it wasn’t, unless by consistent you mean consistently missing most of the time. Over the last few months, he rarely took jumpers. He made almost all of his made baskets inside the paint. He had a couple of hot spots, like the right elbow, but his shooting percentage outside of the paint over the second half of the season still wasn’t very good. It’s entirely possible that he’ll improve both his shot selection and shooting ability as he matures, but let’s not give him credit for something that didn’t happen yet.
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok please stop the crack
I SAID HIS GAME IS SUPPOSED TO GROW INTO CHRIS BOSH. AS IN WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN SO FAR ISNT 110% CHRIS BOSH.
Christ, selective reading?
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I don’t understand all the hate for adding a GREAT forward to the team? He may be injury-riddled, but so was Baron… and when he joined the team… he soon became our “savior.”
When you have a chance to go from a pretender to a contender… you PULL the TRIGGER.
Golden State Warriors fan since 1984. The Filipino sensation!
The loudest Warrior fan in Section 208, Row DS, Seats 15-16.
by RayAlmeda on Jun 25, 2009 11:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Have to observe carefully
He is 100% heatlhy, he sat out the rest of the season for 2 reasons:
- Suns sucked, and there was no point
- It was an eye FREAK injury, as in he is fine… it was a SCRATCH..
His knees are 100% healthy, he played all 82 games after the injury, made the All-Star team as a starter, in the WESTERN CONFERENCE….. I cant stress that enough… with the talent here, he is still coasting and having to split the ball around with Nash, Richardson, Shaq etc…
Oh and did I mention his coaches this year sucked?
Don Nelson is going to gain another 50lbs staying up late eating orange chicken and chow mein drawin up all these plays for him lol
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is wearing his goggles next season and possibly for the rest of his career.
The King of the East shall move his kingdom to the West. 2010.
by GoldenBlue on Jun 26, 2009 5:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the suns were fighting for a playoff spot.
far from sucking, that would be us.
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
by qin on Jun 26, 2009 7:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
we were fighting for a spot 2 seasons ago
and look what happened…
by mosdl on Jun 26, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i like the trade. my point is that PHX has no leverage. Robert Sarver (their owner) isn’t giving Amare the max contract he wants – so he’ll be gone at the end of the season for nothing… Kerr is probably desperate to get anything young & cheap for him so i was a little surprised that this isn’t something that’s going to happen 2 months later and involve Claxton & Acie.
by homer simpson on Jun 26, 2009 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We gave up nothing to get the injury riddled Baron. This is different from giving up something to get Stoudemire. It may still be a good deal, but the analogy you provide is lame.
Stoudemire with Nash was close to, but not quite a contender. We are not also getting Nash. Before Nash, Stoudemire and the Suns were not contenders. Sure, he may be heavily improved, but let’s not get carried away.
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 12:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also were giving up two productive bigs for him, thats why I dont like this trade, it will be Amare, AR and a bunch of scrubs up front and that does not bode well for us.
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
by qin on Jun 26, 2009 7:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which line up do you prefer
Monta
Jax
Buike
AR
Amare ….. Bench of Maggs, Morrow, Turiaf & backup PG
or
Monta
Jax
Buike
AR
Beans
Bwright/Belli/Morrow/Turiaf/Curry?
GSOM- Where Education From Debate Happens
by The Dedication on Jun 26, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If your asking me I think I’ve answered that.
Also if Buike is starting, we have a big problem at the SF spot that I would rather address.
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
by qin on Jun 26, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think
maggs would start over buki
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 26, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think nash is over rated and the real reason suns have always had defensive issues. Therefore they had to run and gun. I don’t blame Amare anymore than Goose for having to bail out guards.
by Balance on Jun 26, 2009 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if by overrated you mean “didn’t deserve to win 2 MVPs” then yea. But if by overrated you mean he doesn’t have a very positive impact on the team’s performance I disagree strongly.
Thing A
"no homo"
by sam23 on Jun 26, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hm..
Amare’s just not as good as the hype. The Suns were as good without him (16-13, 55%) as they were with him (30-23, 55%). He wasn’t a difference maker there and he wouldn’t be much of a difference maker here.
We’d be trading away rebounding and defense for more scoring. More scoring, do we really need more scoring? Plus a max contract?
It’s not like his arrival is going to magically turn us into a 130 ppg team. Our problems are getting stops and getting rebounds, this trade does not really help us with either.
"We Deserve"
by YaHeard on Jun 26, 2009 12:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hi
Hype = talk and nothing happens.
Amare = Proven.
He has the accolades, the respect, and the admiration of his peers in the NBA. ’nuff said.
You are acting like Amare averages 2 rebounds per game. He is a career 8-9 rbs per game. He also is an offensive machine, I am sure if he had no offense and focused solely on rebounding (Biedrins) he would average 14 per game if not more. Does that make him better for the Warriors?
Also the Suns had Shaquile O’Neal who led the league in FG%. So yeah I am sure they were doing fine with high percentage shots coming from Shaq. But what does that have to do with anything?
We dont have a post presence… we cant run a pick and roll, we dont have a full blown all-star, 1st team all nba….
Biedrins is just hoping that in his 5th year in the league he can remain a starter… in his 5th year Amare had done all those I just mentioned.
I think you sir need to appologize to Amar’e and yourself.
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 12:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not an Amare hater, I just don’t think he’s worth a max contract, which he’ll likely command if he’s traded here.
He’s clearly better than Biedrins, taking everything into account. But how much is his extra scoring ability really going to help us? Our problem isn’t scoring.
I believe his max contract is going to hurt our salary situation (our capability to acquire/keep talent in the future) more than help our team win more games.
"We Deserve"
by YaHeard on Jun 26, 2009 12:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t find them currently, but I ran the numbers for Amare with and without Nash in the lineup over the last couple of years. Expecting to get the super-efficient version we’ve seen in PHO is probably wishful thinking. He was still quite good, but his FG% took a big dive when Nash wasn’t getting him the ball. I believe it more likely that we’d be getting the less impressive Nashless numbers than the overall numbers he put up.
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
any idea if other guys who normally play with PGs who aren’t as good as Nash suffer a similar hit in their numbers when injuries force a PG they are less familiar with into the lineup?
Thing A
"no homo"
by sam23 on Jun 26, 2009 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nash is real, real elite. I didn’t do it systematically yet (I’ve got some problems with my play-by-play database from last year where I’m missing games), but Nash is in an elite class in terms of elevating the FG% of others. His presence raises the Suns’ cumulative EFG% more than 6 points. Paul brings up his team a touch more, but otherwise, really good point guards are still only show about 2/3rds of this increase. The Nash effect seems to be pretty bleepin’ substantial though it really would be nice to run the numbers in a more methodical manner.
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hi, amare is simply not as good as you’re making him out to be. he’s an abysmal defender who rebounds considerably worse than the guy we are giving up for him. it would be nice if we scored more efficiently, but at the expense of defense (yes, amare is worse than andris in that respect) and rebounding, it’s not as though this deal instantly makes us a contender. amare didn’t make a more talented phoenix team a contender.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 12:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he rebounders better than andris
his carreer rebounding is HIGHER than andris.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 26, 2009 1:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
for their careers.
biedrins averages 12.1 rebounds per 36 minutes and has a rebounding rate of 18.4%. amare averages 9.4 and has a rebounding rate of 14.8%. biedrins is far better.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
where are you looking?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2427
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1727
ohh….woops this site isnt per 36
but i guess regardless, i wouldnt call that FAR better
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 26, 2009 1:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would definitely call it far better. that’s almost 33% more rebounds, which is nothing to sneeze at.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
This is cute. really cute.
Nevermind the fact that Andris’ #1 responsibility is just just rebound, and Amare is score/rebound.
BUt you know, fair comparison. Lets put up his assist numbers up there with Chris Pauls too… man he sucks!!!
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
rebounding is every player’s job. it just so happens that andris is actually good at it.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
You just keep writing/reading what you want.
Rebounding is everyone’s job? OK sure COach Hack. But Scoring is not Andris’ responsibility (you say it is, you officialy know nothing about GSW) and for Amar’e it was a priority. So yes you miss out on 2 – 4 offensive rebounds per game because you are not always planted under the basket waiting for a rebound.
Get real man
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
false.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
awesome response
You must be running low on gas. Its all good, see thats what happens when you lie through your teeth, eventually you stick out like a sore thumb and the 1 word responses begin.
Nice try though buddy!
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
andris, one of the best rebounders in the league, averages 4.2 offensive rebounds per 36 minutes. you don’t gain 4 per game by planting yourself under the basket. try to look some of this garbage up before posting.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You must of drove your teachers NUTS in school
Take your per 36 minute website, bundle it up, and shove it up your… ok ok …you get the point dude…
Why isnt he an all star? Why isnt he making the Warriors win more games? Why if he is so friggin good that he isnt consistent enough to stay in every game instead of getting into foul trouble? Maybe, just maybe, he is still a work in progress….
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he’s not a complete player. once again, you are assuming that i’m making arguments that i’m not. he has significant flaws.
want to know why he isn’t an all-star? because he doesn’t average enough ppg (a lousy measure of how good a player is). why don’t the warriors win more games? because they don’t have enough good players. come on, this is getting ridiculous.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You keep slapping your own arguement
You are paid for what you HAVE DONE. NOt what you COULD POSSIBLY, MAYBE IF A FAIRY KISSES YOU can do.
Amare HAS DONE. Rookie of the Year, Allstars etc.. OH and he has delivered and done everything has asked of him. How in the flying/flipping hell do you argue this?
Amare is top 5 of his position. Biedrins is MAYBE MAYBE top 10, if he can stay in the game.
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
amare hasn’t done everything asked of him or he would have played defense at some point.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im sorry Gregg Poppovich
He has played sufficient enough defense. No great scorer is a great defender. Thats why Kobe and Jordan are considered to be greatest of all time.
Not even Shaq, who cant defend the pick and roll for the life of him.
You are like a punching bag, just sit there and take these shots repeatedly.
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you really want to say that no great scorer is a great defender? and even if that were true, amare, a great scorer, is a terrible defender.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Terrible? According to who?
You? Im sorry you score at will on Amare? Defense is a team activity, his 1 on 1 defense is fine, his team defense is weak, thanks to HIS COACH.
You gonna say Biedrins is better on denfese? Ok, then again I ask you to please explain why he always gets killed against other big men.
Great offense beats great defense ANY DAY.
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great offense beats great defense ANY DAY.
tell that to the spurs. you need a balance of offense and defense. please, find me one single scouting report that says that amare is a good defender.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
again, talking to yourself
We were talking individual, now you are talking team.
Did I not just cover that? DID I NOT?
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
find me one scouting report that says amare is a good one on one defender.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok
2 can play this game
Find me one scouting report that says Amare is a bad 1 on 1 defender.
Also, find me a scouting report that says Biedrins is a great 1 on 1 defender
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
here’s a report from draft express from last year on amare’s d:
A nice weakside shot blocker who is starting to improve his defense on a night-to-night basis, but still has a long way to go. Doesn’t maximize his physical tools regularly on defense. Won’t get in a low stance to defend the perimeter or use leverage as effectively as a he does offensively when defending the post. Tends to not hedge the pick and roll despite the fact that he is more than capable of doing it. Won’t commit when he does, leading to easy outlet passes. Likes to stand in the middle of the paint and wait for the play to come to him. Isn’t a very good man-to-man defender, but can be when he makes the effort to force tough shots. Extremely foul prone. Doesn’t grab many defensive rebounds. Has always been paired with a more prolific rebounder. Could stand to work harder on the glass. Needs to dedicate himself on the defensive end to take his team to the next level.
doesn’t sound too good to me.
and i never called andris a good defender. settle down on the strawmen.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok and here is espn.com on Biedrins
Defensively, Biedrins’ thin frame doesn’t do him any favors in post defense, as he can be overpowered by bigger centers or even physical power forwards. He does a better job against players with his body type, but he’s prone to picking up fouls leaning on opposing bigs. He’s a good shot-blocker and takes care of the boards, but he’d be a lot better off paired with a physical, take-no-prisoners power forward who did the dirty work and allowed him to roam off the ball and make plays.
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 2:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hi
Does that PF remind you of anyone that we are bleeding at the ears to get?
DING DING !!!!!
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 2:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the “physical, take-no-prisoners power forward who did the dirty work and allowed him to roam off the ball and make plays”? that doesn’t sound anything like amare if that’s what you’re getting at.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 2:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey sjboy
I actually support an Amare trade (well I did before I heard the more recent rumors that have Buike or Curry included in the deal and Amare refusing any kind of extension short of the largest max deal possible) but you are way, way off on this. You’re ignoring the arguments cap is actually making while choosing to create and argue against made up and much easier to attack arguments. Amare is a very, very good player. I happen to think his offensive abilities are more than good enough to compensate for the rebounding difference between he and Biedrins. I haven’t watched Amare enough to accurately judge which guy is a better defensive player, but I have watched them both enough to know neither is a very good one on one defensive player. Biedrins’ rebounding ability makes him a better player on the defensive end simply because he limits the number of possessions opponents get. Its really not a difficult concept and evidence of it can be seen in the difference between the Warriors D with Turiaf on the floor compared to when Biedrins is on the floor. Turiaf is a much better defender than Biedrins, but the Warriors defense is actually better when Biedrins is on the floor instead because he’s such a better rebounder. Rebounding is incredibly important.
I think the Amare trade is worth exploring because I feel Randolph will continue to be an elite rebounder at the 4 which should somewhat compensate for the loss of Biedrins and I think the impact Amare could have on the offensive end changing the way defenses play us would make up for the loss on the boards. I’m not quite so sure Amare is good enough to get max money so the extension money concerns me a lot.
There are good reasons to think bringing in Amare would be good for this team, but there are also very good ones for why Amare wouldn’t be such a good idea. Thus far cap is doing a pretty good job of laying out the case for Biedrins/against Amare and you aren’t doing a very good job arguing against it. Most of us fall prey to these traps sometimes, but instead of trying to get the best zinger or wittiest remark in, try to focus on the case you want to make and the case cap is actually making .
Thing A
"no homo"
by sam23 on Jun 26, 2009 2:54 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
once more:
i never called andris a good defender. settle down on the strawmen.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 2:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great offense beats great defense ANY DAY.
On what are you basing this? The evidence I’ve seen is that an opponent’s offense and defense are equally influential on the outcome of a game. This is a result of comparing game by game results from all 1230 games played in the regular season this year, comparing both team’s offensive and defensive efficiencies overall and seeing how far off the opponent was from their respective efficiency for the game. The avg. difference between expected efficiency and actual efficiency was pretty much identical for both offense and defense indicating that both were equally important.
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wade and lebron are good defenders
so is johnson, melo, boozer, duncan, parker, kg, pierce, allen, granger and durant
by dubzfan on Jun 26, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I keep hearing Melo made great strides on defense last year….I never saw it, he showed a lot of effort in the playoffs, but that doesn’t mean he’s a good defender.
Granger’s d has improved every year and he’s a great weakside help guy, but I wouldn’t say he’s a really good defender just yet.
Durant just isn’t a very good defensive player yet.
Thing A
"no homo"
by sam23 on Jun 26, 2009 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Durant just isn’t a very good defensive player yet.
Sam, I think you misspelled “Durant would have to improve substantially to just be an average defender.”
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No great scorer is a great defender
Really? I’m not sure that this is true. It’s certainly not true historically, as Jordan was both a great scorer and great defender. I consider Bryant to be a pretty damn spectacular scorer who can also provide shut down defense. Who do you consider “great defenders”? Who do you consider “great scorers”?
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m in favor of some of the variations of a Biedrins for Amare swap I’ve seen, but Biedrins is a far better rebounder.
Thing A
"no homo"
by sam23 on Jun 26, 2009 2:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok
Since you are just hellbent on arguing with everyone in here just having a good time, and celebrating the greatest day this organization has had since winning a playoff series…
If not Amare who is the better player to sign, and please explain why they would be so much better then Amare, and why they would want to stay and not for a max contract?
…… I can be negative too. Its easy to be the annoying prick in the back of the classroom, and tell you all the things you do wrong.
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’m saying that amare isn’t worth a max deal and neither is anyone we’re likely to get. you don’t just throw max money around because you can.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:08 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
You tell me
1 player in the NBA that is a big man that hasnt been overpaid. If you have watched the NBA long enough you should know that you ALWAYS OVERPAY for big men? KNow why? THEY ARE RARE.
How many Forwards were in the draft this year? Exactly. How many guards? lol more then I can count.
You always overpay.
Same with the NFL and QBs.
You can teach skill, you cant teach size.
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
andris biedrins isn’t overpaid.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:11 AM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
haha
He makes more then:
Marcus Camby
David Lee
Very comprable to his play.
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you can always find guys who make less money for comparable production. watch me do the opposite: he makes less money than and sam dalmebert and zach randolph, would you rather have either of those guys?
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct
So to argue paying someone 2 – 3 million more per year is silly, and just down right dumb when talking about a possibility to add a world class player to your team.
So in essence you just shut yourself up lol
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
amare makes almost $7M more than andris.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is another 1 liner
Fantastic post. Of course he makes more the Biedrins you uneducated, over posted, uninformed fool. He has been in the league and done about 90384290432849032890483209432 more things then the young Biedrins.
Do you know how salaries work in the NBA genius? Christ, now I dont even have to try with you lol
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
amare isn’t worth $7M more per year than andris. not even close.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much you are just not very smart
There is nothing else I can tell you. I can sit here and tell you untill I am blue in the face that Don Nelson is fat, and you are the type of guy who will just say “Big boned”.
I mean if a guy who has been multiple year all-star starter, 1st team all-nba, Olympic Team member, averaged over 20+ pts, 55+ FG% is not better then a 4th year guy who just barely averaged a low end dbl dbl, well then, you should probably stick to Sharks hockey.
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he is better than biedrins, but not by nearly as much as you are saying. when did i say that biedrins was the better player?
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You said he is not 7 million more then Biedrins
But if you stopped running your mouth, and actually looked up the salary scale, AS IN …
Amare has been in the league longer, so he will always get more then someone who hasnt. As in, his max contract will always be higher then Biedrin’s max contract. LIKE … ITS A RULE. NOT EVEN IF THE TEAMS WANTED TO PAY MORE, THEY COULDNT.
Now do you comprehend?
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but they don’t deserve max deals, neither one. don’t you comprehend that you don’t need to pay max money to all of your guys? neither is on a rookie scale, so you the salaries aren’t really all that restricted. on the open market, you could give them both similar offers. amare doesn’t deserve 7 million more dollars than andris biedrins. he isn’t that much better.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are wrong again
“On the open market, you could give them both smilar offers”
100% wrong. You are payed by how many years you have in the league.
Dude please just stop, you are posting completely on assumption and not on fact, becuase if it was on fact you would of NEVER said something as idiotic/inaccurate as that.
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
honestly, look up the cba. andris and amare can be offered similar contracts. this isn’t rocket science.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK here it goes
Maximum Individual Contracts under the CBA
The maximum amount of money a player can sign for is contingent on the number of years that player has played and the total of the salary cap. The maximum salary of a player with 6 or fewer years of experience is $9,000,000 or 25% of the total salary cap (2008-2009: $13,758,000). For a player with 7-9 years of experience, the maximum is $11,000,000 or 30% of the cap (2008-2009: $16,509,600), and for a player with 10+ years of experience, the maximum is $14,000,000 or 35% of the cap (2008-2009: $19,261,200). 2:
There slammed you again. What is the next thing you are going to make up?
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the maximum is different than their market value. why is that hard to understand?
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
HELLO? I AM SPEAKING ENGLISH HERE….
WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
I just explained to you why he will ALWAYS BE PAID MORE, AND THAT IS BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN IN THE LEAGUE LONGER, so his pay scale will ALWAYS BE LARGER. Nevermind the fact that the dude is 100% without a doubt worth alot more.
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so the vet minimum doesn’t exist? so lebron james will be making less than jason kidd after 2010? you can offer players money within that scale. your years in the league do not directly determine your pay. you have to negotiate contracts.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok
You are now just talking by yourself. Its like I answer your question, and you make up something else.
I explained why Amare gets more. This section is done. Write it down, take a picture, call a friend I dont care.
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
how is it done? amare could make less than biedrins, but instead makes $7M more. there is no rule that says he needs to have a max deal.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok Cap
If are an owner of a team
You have 2 players. They come to your table to negotiate a deal
1 has a ton of accolades, and more years in the league
1 has potential, and is fairly new to the league
Which one walks our of there with a bigger deal?
This is as fundamental as I can make it.
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
bigger is a really vague term. $7M is not just bigger, it’s a lot bigger. amare isn’t that much better than andris.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok man, good night
I give up, you are just the dumbest fan Golden State has. Now any fan is a good fan for Golden State, but seriously if we were on an island you would have been kicked off.
I cant believe I actually gave you the time of day, but I am VERY glad that this is forever immortalized here, so that everyone tomorrow can laugh at you.
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
also
do you really need to resort to the personal attacks? “you just aren’t very smart” “you uneducated, overposted, uninformed fool” I’m a little bit shocked that cap hasn’t snapped back at you yet, as I am 100% certain he has much more education and basketball knowledge than you. Its actually pretty impressive restraint on his part and makes you, and the side of the argument I think I was on before reading this exchange, look even more silly.
Thing A
"no homo"
by sam23 on Jun 26, 2009 3:01 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
personal attacks and name-calling is not sexy.
LeBron James? I'm the only Ty Crane.
by misterjennings on Jun 26, 2009 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
for the record
the cap’n is right.
sjboy is wrong. and acts like a highschooler
"We Deserve"
by YaHeard on Jun 26, 2009 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
girls, girls
you’re both pretty!
the stop calling him "beans" movement
by pervisNeverNervous on Jun 26, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amare is likely the more valuable player, and he certainly has the skills that are more likely to command a higher salary. How much higher is really the issue. You have been talking about years in the league as if this is the real reason for all of the discrepancy. It isn’t. Stoudemire’s present deal was a max contract, the most the Suns could have given him at the time. Andris is not under a max contract. Additionally, his contract does not increase his salary over time. It is true that if you are comparing max contract to max contract, years in the league.
What none of what you’ve posted addresses is whether the difference in salary between the two is appropriate for the difference in production that we are likely to see in the future between the two.
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
his max contract will always be higher then [sic -the word you want is “than”] Biedrin’s max contract
Biedrins doesn’t have a “max contract”. He has a contract of roughly $9 mil a year that does not escalate over time. We couldn’t pay Biedrins as much as Stoudemire is making, but we could have paid him substantially more than he is making. The comparison of “max contracts” is moot, given that Biedrins didn’t get a ‘max contract’.
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and honestly, you give max deals to the sort of players who can lead you to titles. amare isn’t the best player on a title contender. if he had stayed healthy this year on a team with a solid supporting cast, he’d have been the best player on a 6 or 7th seed. that’s hardly worth a max deal.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is your opinion
He is 27 yrs old, and has yet to hit the ceiling, and as far as I know he has been to multiple western conference titles, and has killed it.
His averages against the spurs 4 years ago is still a western conference finals records. You do know the players that have p[layed in those series right? Yeah and he broke their records.
Look, keep telling yourself he is not worth it. LIke I said its easy to sit there and say no he cant, no he cant, because when he DOES you will just join the bandwagon, like everyone else. Just like people did on Steve Nash in Phoenix, Brandon Roy in Portland, HOward in Orlando etc..
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
at 26 years old, he is very unlikely to get considerably better.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry you cannot make that call
What are you qualifications?
Fan? Years of watching basketball?
Yeah same here buddy, and those who do it as a business say what I just said. Stop insulting them.
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that is not true. there aren’t guys who make “the leap” at that age. you pretty much are what you are.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
holy jesus
Are you friggin serious? Of course you are, because you just dont know.
Look up Nash, Look up Michael Redd, Look up Jason Kidd, look up Dirk Nowitzki etc..
Are you talking about Basketball or Football? Now I am getting confused
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
looked ‘em up. none of them made significant jumps in production. it’s really fast and easy to look up stats. give basketball-reference.com a try.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bingo buddy!
NBA players hate you. Mr. Stats, and no actual knowledge/watching of the game.
Do you think Kobe Bryant averaging 35ppg 2 years ago was better then MVP Kobe Bryant too?
Is there anyone else out there that can help me enlighten this dude?
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ppg game is a lousy measure of production. and in 2005 kobe was better than the aging kobe we saw in 2008. there’s really no debate about that.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Once again you are wrong. THe 2005 Kobe was an AND-1 All-Star, horrible, no one wanted to play with him. You do know basketball is played with 5 people right?
Again your arguement is weak, and completely wrong.
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you really want to call 2005 kobe horrible? after he led a team with almost no talent to a near upset of nash and amare’s suns?
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're kidding right?
Not exiting the first round, versus going to the finals back to back.
Oh ok, I can see how the first round is better then making the finals, back to back.
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
pao gasol lent a fairly nice hand in the title run this year and the trip to the finals last year, no?
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holy jesus
How much basketball do you watch? Because I think its 0. Did you watch Kobe doin work? Where he himself explained the importance of maturing, and taking less shots?
Ok please tell me that he is wrong. HE BEING KOBE, the person. Please tell us oh wise one.
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
kobe doing work was an a puff piece designed to make kobe look better. it was an embarassment for spike lee to have done that “documentary”.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok
You are talking to yourself again here. You just said that Kobe Bryant talking about himself was a puff peace, eventhough everyone else in the league agrees with it, but you, the great cap know better then all of them.
Ok
by sjboy on Jun 26, 2009 1:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you don’t think kobe knows what people want to hear and says those things while being filmed?
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 2:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
doing work was trash
LeBron James? I'm the only Ty Crane.
by misterjennings on Jun 26, 2009 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Kobe “documentary” was advertising. I like much of Spike Lee’s work, but let’s not forget that in his early days, part of his big break was a series of Nike commercials. Far more “it’s gotta be the shoes” here than a candid portrayal.
And Kobe’s game hasn’t really changed over the last few years. He hasn’t ‘made his teammates better’. He’s had better teammates.
by jae on Jun 27, 2009 5:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll make that call. He’s unlikely to get much better. Here’s what I’m basing this on: I charted the performance curve for every player who entered the league from 2009 back to 1981. It’s more than 10,000 player/seasons. There’s an improvement curve, different for different aspects of the game (rather flat for rebounding, upwards for a while for scoring efficiency, assists, etc, but not always at the same rate). On average, players have reached the end of the clear uphill portion of their performance curve around 25 or so. It doesn’t seem to be that much different if the player entered the league straight out of HS or after only 1 year of college than for guys who lasted more time in school either, but for the former group (the one that Stoudemire is in), they tend to reach their plateau a bit earlier.
Overall per game numbers tend to improve a bit for a few more years because coaches tend to play guys in their late 20s more minutes, but this isn’t the same as them actually improving. The per minute rates don’t generally improve for players at Stoudemire’s age. This isn’t opinion. It’s observation, and it’s observation based on a whole, whole, whole lot of data.
There are exceptions, but we have no reason to believe that Stoudemire is one such case. I have some reason to believe that he might be a player who burns out early since his game is based on explosiveness, and that tends to be one of the first things to go.
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the info jae
I’ve been hesitant on this trade because we know what we’re getting, we’re not getting anything better than we expect, he may be worse because of his eye/knees. I’m also hesitant because we don’t know what we’re giving up, we’re giving up 3/4 players who, based on your data, haven’t hit their ceiling and could greatly improve.
by myk on Jun 26, 2009 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has yet to hit his ceiling?
Are you sure? I’m not. I think he was at his best when playing with Nash, when he was almost unstoppable on the pick-and-roll. He hasn’t been that dominant since. While Nash-to-Amare was a fantastic combination, how much of it was Nash, and how much of it was Amare?
You want to look at one series against the Spurs, but scoring averages say more about the PACE of the game than they do about an individual players skill. Amare was the top scorer on one of the fastest-paced teams ever to make the WCF.
(And, by the way, your posts about salary were pretty much incoherent.)
by Ronaldinho on Jun 26, 2009 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to just about every source, no established players (basically, players who have some leverage) wants to go and play in Golden State besides the homegrown talents. I can’t see why Stoudemire, being on the team for one likely moderately successful year, would change his opinion of that.
Bad deal because we don’t get Amare long term. If we did, I would say good deal. But the way it stands now it is sacrificing a future of stability that would leave us a few shrewd/lucky moves away from being a contender for basically one season of being a pretty good team that could contend for contention.
by belilaugh on Jun 26, 2009 12:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ok so,
Randolph’s per36 defensive rebounds (7.5) are better than Biedrins (5.7) at the same age (19) and coincidentally both received similar playing times. Biedrins posted a much higher fg% compared to Randolph, but I am assuming this is because Randolph was taking twice as many shots and played farther from the basket. By Randolph’s first year, he could turn out to be better than Biedrins at rebounding coupled with better offensive skills and athleticism – making him a suitable replacement for Biedrins.
The interesting thing is, Wright and Stoudemire make the same amount of shots per36 (7) at 21 years of age, but Wright does it at a higher % and their rebounding is about the same. From this, Wright could eventually be much more efficient than Stoudemire and possibly be better defensively.
Randolph could make Biedrins expendable, but Wright could do Stoudemire’s job better and without the drama. I say yes if we keep Wright and Randolph, other than that, big No-No.
The King of the East shall move his kingdom to the West. 2010.
by GoldenBlue on Jun 26, 2009 4:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, not a definite no, but
If we can find an efficient back-up forward to replace Wright and not include Curry, then I would be okay with it.
The King of the East shall move his kingdom to the West. 2010.
by GoldenBlue on Jun 26, 2009 5:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
why not
ask for earl clark in the deal?
Amare + Clark for Andris + Wright + Belli
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 26, 2009 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think including Azubuike would be more reasonable.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 26, 2009 7:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
considering that the Suns are said to want more than that for just Amare, I doubt they’d just throw Clark in there too.
Thing A
"no homo"
by sam23 on Jun 26, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
basically we shoulda drafted HILL
…just wait and see he is going to be a monster under the basket..just what we need…we screwed up not taking him and here we are about to give away our depth for Webber——oops I meant Stoudamire…..
by Only In Fairfax on Jun 26, 2009 7:28 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
false
Psycho T will have a better NBA career than Jordan Hill
LeBron James? I'm the only Ty Crane.
by misterjennings on Jun 26, 2009 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we arent adding Curry
I think we’ll have to add a draft pick. Which i’d be 100% fine with IFFFF amare re-signs
by tafkasam on Jun 26, 2009 7:47 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
this trade sucks
it's just a game.
www.bayareascores.com
by Slicker on Jun 26, 2009 9:10 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
LOL @ some of these posts acting like they wouldn’t trade Biedrins for Amare. Biedrins is a solid starter, but Amare is a superstar post presence we’ve lacked since Chris Webber. We immiediately would become an inside-out team instead of the permiter jump shooting team with Biedrins in the middle. Not to mention Amare would fit perfectly in Nelson’s system.
Biedrins for Amare is a no-brainer. The hard part is who else should we trade? How much is too much for a player who’s had issues with injury and attitude? I’d rather keep Belinelli OR Curry, getting rid of both seems like too much.
But I can’t get over some Beli-haters amazingly short memory. Rocky had some NICE games before getting injured, showing nice scoring and playmaking skills, even getting “Rocky!” chants from the fans. We’ve got nice talent at SG with Belinelli, Curry, Morrow…which makes Moped Ellis a very attractive trade piece with his antics and $11mil/yr.
by RowellMustGo on Jun 26, 2009 9:30 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
it's not that they want beans over amare
it’s his cost for a max deal and the players involved is a very high price
by dubzfan on Jun 26, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
throwing half the team to phoenix for one year of amare is a bad call.
that said, if the salaries matched up, i’d be willing to give up biedrins, wright and acie (i’m pretty sure it is very close to working after biedrins byc is no more) for stat. worst case scenario $16M is off the books next year, and factoring in speedy’s deal too, we’d have max money to work with. i don’t think we have a shot at any player who deserves a max deal, but there are a couple guys who would be worth somewhere in the $10-13M range that would be worth pursuing and we could make a run at a couple more guys to fill out the rotation. amare isn’t worth a max deal, but if the cap space he creates by skipping town allows us to grab another high quality big and piece or two, it’d be a successful trade. of course, that’s a big “if” for giving up biedrins and wright…
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
1. If we sign him to a 14 mil a year
2. Trade Beans/Curry/Wright/Belli For Amare (Throw in Speedy if you want)
do you like the trade?
We would have a pretty good core wtih Monta/AR/Amare and we get rid of the one of the many guards. We still have Buike & Morrow with Maggs & Turiaf… Might have to sign another backup 4 but that still looks like a legitimant team to me…. Do you agree?
GSOM- Where Education From Debate Happens
by The Dedication on Jun 26, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i’d be disappointed to give up curry, but that probably helps us. we would still need a backup 4, but amare’s an excellent player and wright and marco can’t really seem to get off the bench for whatever reason. the problem is convincing amare to take a two mil per year pay cut. i don’t see that happening.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
U think even in the economy
he’ll be able to get more?
GSOM- Where Education From Debate Happens
by The Dedication on Jun 26, 2009 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm afraid he will
simply because there are several teams clearing room for 2010 and I think Amare may be one of the few elite guys willing to change teams. Personally I still feel both LeBron and Wade will be staying and that makes Amare and Bosh the guys teams like Cleveland, Miami, NY, and Detroit will be having a bidding war for.
Thing A
"no homo"
by sam23 on Jun 26, 2009 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the more I think about an Amare deal the less I like it. I still think he’s a pretty substantial upgrade over Biedrins but the contract stuff seems like a deal breaker.
Thing A
"no homo"
by sam23 on Jun 26, 2009 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he’s probably getting a max deal. look at all the teams lining up cap space right now; once a couple teams lose out on the lebron/wade sweepstakes, someone will overspend on amare. the same thing will probably work in bosh’s favor.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
then he won't be a warrior
He’ll wait out till next year, opt out and go to whomever gives him the most.
by mosdl on Jun 26, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s pretty much how I feel. I really, really worry about the length of a deal for him and worry that he’ll lose that explosive speed and power that makes him a terrific player. Call it the Shawn Kemp fear, rational or not. Couple that with the fact that we’re not getting Nash and Stoudemire (and Nash does appear to have a very very positive effect on Amare’s numbers) and it’s got me real nervous. Couple that with Biedrins having a smart realistic contract that doesn’t increase over its life that runs through the years he should be at his peak and it just makes me real hesitant to endorse the deal. It’s not cut and dry either way, and the other players included might really be the difference IMHO.
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it a bidding war if 5 teams all call you up at the same time and say “we’ll max you”?
Whether it’s a good thing or a bad thing is debatable, but the NBA CBA has pretty obviously eliminated the phrase “bidding war” from usage most of the time.
Thing C
by markdash on Jun 27, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if we're giving up curry
we can probably get away with keeping wright
sounds like both teams have high hopes for curry, so he can be a good bargaining chip to keep wright
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 26, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the shine is off
our “untouchable” combo of Ellis and Biedrins. The young duo we were going to build around is now, in NBA years, an awkward pair of teens struggling for the identity that will define their carreers. We have a new untouchable baby and want to move the old core before they have really had any chance to prove themselves together. Too bad. I fear more ex-Warrior All-Star game appearances will come to haunt us. Am I just too much of a homer? I don’t think so. This is an argument for being patient with what we have.
I’ve argued before that Ellis is by far our best shot at PG. Let’s give him and Jack a real opportunity at 1&2 for one full year. I’d like Curry to learn behind Monta and CJ. Let’s see what he earns. Monta has the tools to be another Tony Parker. Let’s give him the chance.
And, frankly, it makes me a little sick to think about watching Andris play for anyone else. This guy came to the U.S. to play for us as a kid. He was the youngest NBA player then and he has grown each and every year in every aspect of his game. As far as centers go, he is still a babe. When he finishes his career, in about ten more years, I have no doubt he will be 20-40 pounds heavier, have a better back to the baket game (the Europeans think he has a fine one now), be able to hold his ground better against the beef of the league, and will have a little more arc to his free throw. He could EASILY be an ALL Star center before his career is up.
People here are emphasizing Andris’ rebounding. Let’s not forget his FG % has been the best in the NBA for months at a time. I’ll admit, no one is ever going to call him an offensive beast, ala Amare, but that aging and expensive superstar has more plays run for him in a game than Andris sees in a week.
I still am buying into the dream. Develop within and then add the final expensive piece when you know it will put you over the top. If the W’s could keep Ellis, Beidrins, and Randolph and somehow add Stoudemire to that, I’m all there. But giving away the foundation to essentially start building it again, is too risky for me.
Should the Warriors do this trade and find themselves locked into an inflexible five year max deal with someone who, even when healthy and young, paired with an MVP PG, and an All Star front court partner (take your pick of Marion or Shaq) couldn’t defend or rebound well enough to get to the finals, how the heck are the Warriors going to get there on the downside of his career?
Patience!
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
by fotd on Jun 26, 2009 10:26 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
patience
Nobody is talking about moving Ellis, fyi. I’m a sucker for Biendris, as you are, and one day he will make a good team very happy.
This team needs an inside a presence. Could you imagine Morrow receiving wide open 3pt looks anywhere on the arc he wants? Only an inside presence can facilitate this. I think with Monta’s A+ ability to drive the lane, he can help get his teammates open looks…but its all contingent on his ability to make decisions on the fly, to shoot a little less, and to learn the position.
I think you’re selling the Suns short, considering how close they were to finals at their peak. I also think that a Warriors team circa 2011 surrounding Amare could be better than that Suns team on the cusp.
Basically that’s just a bag of opinions, but I really feel that Stoudamire could be the guy to build around. Keep in mind, he is an All-Star, a US national team selection, and was a questionable suspension away from getting the Suns to the finals in 2007. Biendris, for all his hard work and great attitude and funny hair cut and fan favoritism, is none of those things.
On 5/7, the best part of waking is up LOLDGERS in my cup.
by GameSix on Jun 26, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
*stoudemire
On 5/7, the best part of waking is up LOLDGERS in my cup.
by GameSix on Jun 26, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You could be right, and I’ll root for Amare if he’s a Warrior. But in the game of armchair GM, I’d put my (considerably less) money on Randolph developing that inside presence that draws double teams while keeping Biedrins to do what he does best. I believe last year’s horrible showing underrepresents what our guys can do and any trade of key players now undervalues them. The Amare deal is too much a gamble on one player.
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
by fotd on Jun 26, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Originally, when I heard the deal was happening…I was excited. Frankly, the more and more I think about it, the more doubts creep in to my head. It is indeed a huge gamble. It sounds like you’re prepared to go into next season w/what we have and see what sticks. AR actually has displayed some of that potential…I’m afriad of becoming infatuated with it. Perceived value is really high, strike while the iron is hot! Could it be that the Warirors have a potential win/win on their hands? Nah its the dubs lol
On 5/7, the best part of waking is up LOLDGERS in my cup.
by GameSix on Jun 26, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Warriors HAVE to make this deal.
If Amare is willing to extend and passes a physical then you pull the Fing trigger! How many other young Allstars want to come to Oakland? Seriously? What are our better options?
1) Amare is better than Goose and will make us a better team.
2) We need an all star
3) We’ve been dieing for a all star PF for what seems like 100 years
4) Goose will never have a jumper, never shoot a free throw, never close a game and never be the best player on any team
5) Amare may be the best PF for our pace of play
6) Amare, Randolph, Ellis, etc. will be the best show on hard wood.
7) Landing Amare will increase other top-talent interest in GS.
8) See 1-7.
Make it happen. It’s not a fair trade if we lose either Curry or Wright and I’m not sure this makes us a contender just yet but it is a move we need to make. We need a All star big, and one more player. IMO a SF. We need a long defense SF like Ariza/ Prince/ Marion/ Wallace etc. Some one who can play defense and shoot the 3.
So yes, Get Amare but keep going. One more guy. A long SF please.
by Balance on Jun 26, 2009 11:43 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
1) On one end of the floor – the end that needs less improvement
2) Better to develop than to trade for.
3) We’ve been dying for a decently defensive center for longer.
4) He doesn’t need to be. Will you ever be able to replace his rebounding?
5) On one side of the floor.
6) If you don’t mind being scored on
7) Maybe. If he isn’t our center. Know any “top talent” at center who will come and run with the W’s, knows how to postition himself in the paint, has reasonable good hands, and can suck up missed shots?
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
by fotd on Jun 26, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
If you think Goose is better than Amare you are nuts.
Had you mentioned the other piece we’d have to give to get him, you’d make more sense.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Goose, truely. Actually i’ll be very happy for him to be able to play with Nash. I think he’ll be good there, but Goose and Amare are not comparable talent.
by Balance on Jun 26, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
its not just talent changing hands, though. we would be giving up quite a bit. i don’t disagree with you, but it’s not as easy as GIT R DONE
On 5/7, the best part of waking is up LOLDGERS in my cup.
by GameSix on Jun 26, 2009 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ellis = to Parker?
He has a VERY long way to go before he even scratches Mr Parker’s backside when it comes to PG skills…
I think that comparison is a stretch…. Ellis has shown very little regard for “playmaking” nor is he a Captain/Leader of the team, not once have I seen him in all the games he has played for the Warriors, did he go to another player and “pick them up” encourage them, etc etc. He simply does not have that gregarious quality to his characer…
A PG has to be a natural leader, Monta is a talent, of that there is no doubt….but he is not a leader and so I truly do not see him becoming one of the NBA’s great PG’s.
He will become a great combo guard, but not a pure PG! IMHO
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Jun 26, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
Ellis is a little beside the point on this thread. Sorry I brought him up. I also wish he were more of a leader. But I don’t want to give up on him now. He has the potiential to be a PG in the Parker style of play. Let’s let our current roster, more or less, gel this year. I don’t want to touch our three untouchables for at least the first half of the year.
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
by fotd on Jun 26, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
great post
finally someone that understands why we need Amare!
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkSJSU on Jun 26, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amare is no doubt better than Beans
…but we need a rebounder and defender, not another scorer. Amare is a great scorer, but not needed.
I’d much rather give up much less to get a guy like Paul Millsap, who is one of THE best rebounders in the league and an excellent defender.
So why give up Beans (who is a MUCH BETTER REBOUNDER THAN AMARE) and an abundance of talent for, albeit, a great player, when he is not needed?
by reppin510 on Jun 26, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amare is "better" than Goose
No doubt. But will he be good enough to get you where you want to go? Not without a center behind him who can rebound and defend, IMO.
If the W’s keep the players they have, they can look for someone to help with inside scoring in a year or two if Randolph disappoints. If the W’s make this deal, and we are losing 300 point games, we will have very limited flexibility to bring in a good center. You don’t win in the playoffs without D.
Look, Amare may work out if Randolph and Turiaf provide the missing D and give Stoudemire some rest. But you are out of options if that doesn’t work out. I don’t feel as strongly as you seem to about this. I do feel however that those who think this is a slam dunk are a little star struck.
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
by fotd on Jun 26, 2009 12:37 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
From HoopsWorld
Do you think Golden state will get better if they aquire Amare?
Travis Heath:
No. I actually like the proposed deal better for Phoenix. It’s about substance over style, and there’s no doubt in my mind that Biedrins has more substance than Amar’e. Moreover, Stoudemire’s history of injury is always a cause of concern. I’m sure if the deal goes down there will be some fans upset in Phoenix, but Biedrins is a better all around player. He’s a much better defender, a better rebounder and a better teammate. Golden State would win the press conference in this deal, but I think Phoenix would actually win the trade.
F**K REFS
by faetati on Jun 26, 2009 12:51 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
It’s a good trade for both teams. This is a great dicussion becuase I don’t think anyone is wrong. It’s just a matter of opinion. Personally I like the trade. I think Randolph and Amare in the front court will be amazing. Amare is a All star, Randolph may become one. That would give us 2 all star PF in the front court and one hell of a show. I don’t think Goose will ever reach Amare status. I think Randolph and Amare will both grab plenty of boards. I like Amare Guarding Griffin alot more than Goose. IMO Amare is the perfect player for Nelson and this team.
by Balance on Jun 26, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the problems with this proposed trade
1. Amare is not better than Biedrins on the glass 8.6 rebounds compared 11.1 for Biedrins and Biedrins did it in less minutes 30 per game and opposed to Amare 36
2. Biedrins plays better defense, I know some people think this to not be true but let’s just look at block numbers Biedrins 1.5 Amare 1 in again 6 more minutes and anyone who watches the game knows that Biedrins would be more like 2.5 if he didn’t get hosed on calls all game long.
3. We don’t need scoring we ranked 2nd in the league last year I think
4. we need defense and rebounding ranked in the bottom of the league if not dead last
5. With all the players we would include, we’d be losing the flexability that all those small contracts give us.
6. Amare is not worth a max contract and that’s what he’ll be asking for which would be paying him near or over $20 million at the age of 33-34
7. Amare has to reconstructed knees
8. Andris is 23
9. Brandon Wright probably puts up similar #‘s per minute as Amare yet he’s just filler
10. Marco helps make us a deaper team with shooting ability and was looking like a pretty good defender before he got injured last season
I’ve said my piece and hope that this HORRIBLE trade never goes through, i guess i’ll have to wait like all of you until July 8th.
It's all about the killer cross-over baby!
by warriorsfiend on Jun 26, 2009 1:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Brandon Wright probably puts up similar #‘s per minute as Amare yet he’s just filler
fact check before you say things like that. amare has very impressive per minute numbers; brandan isn’t that close, especially if you factor in amare’s ridiculous true shooting percentage (it dropped a few points to .617!).
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 26, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All good points. Especially if he’s injured and we give up Wright. That leaves us with just Turiaf and AR down low. I hear you loud and clear. It’s a gamble but I think it’s got to be done. We need All star talent to be contenders. Again, I don’t see Amare on his own as The Answer but with one more player…..maybe. i.e. Like adding Garnett to Boston without adding Allen. He’s one of 2 pieces we need. I hope we land him and are able to get one more guy…….a bigger SF makes a lot of sense to me. Will help in defense and rebounding i.e. opposite of Magette.
by Balance on Jun 26, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brandan, if he continues to develop, could put up numbers like Stoudemire
but I have to factoring in Amare’s drive to improve as a player to beat out Wright. At 21 both of them were putting up similar per 36 numbers, but after that season and his surgery, he saw continued spikes in his fg% to a godly 59% a year ago and he was taking 2x more shot than Biedrins was when he posted his 63% fg%. I am not so sure Wright has that drive to shake off that back-up typecast and move up to the next level.
I think the debate is going in the wrong direction, Amare is not replacing Biedrins. He should be brought in to be our PF, while Randolph slides over to the 5 and can eventually be better than Biedrins. Keep Curry and look to add a backup forward, then this deal does not look bad at all.
The King of the East shall move his kingdom to the West. 2010.
by GoldenBlue on Jun 26, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No matter what happens, we will probably trade one of our guards
And my guess is marco, since curry duplicates him.
I’d rather we wait 60 days so we can trade our 2 expiring contracts that to get amare quickly, especially since it will cost us a lot of money.
by mosdl on Jun 26, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amare is not better than Biedrins on the glass 8.6 rebounds compared 11.1 for Biedrins and Biedrins did it in less minutes 30 per game and opposed to Amare 36
Amare also had Shaq and Robin Lopez eating away at his rebounding numbers while AB was generally the only one going for the board. AB is a better rebounder but not by a huge margin.
Biedrins would be more like 2.5 if he didn’t get hosed on calls all game long
Another advantage is the addition of superstar calls that would come our way with STAT…I really don’t know where I stand on this trade. I would love STAT because he makes us a playoff team. On the other hand, he still doesnt make us title contenders. If we could keep Curry then I’d do the trade in a heartbeat, however that doesn’t look like its going to happen. I would also consider the trade with Curry, if Earl Clark comes our way. I’d just hate to give away our draft for a potential risk.
Warriors, Niners, Giants, Sharks, Trojans, Canes, Japan, Gunners
by JJ19151 on Jun 26, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amare also had Shaq and Robin Lopez eating away at his rebounding numbers while AB was generally the only one going for the board. AB is a better rebounder but not by a huge margin.
It’s a pretty huge margin. If you look at Amare’s rebounds pre-shaq, it’s still rather substantial. The “only one going for the boards” effect seems to be something that only benefits Andris, not Turiaf. I’m not quite sure how that can be true, unless it isn’t true.
by jae on Jun 26, 2009 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand all of the Biedrins rebounding stats being thrown out
Before all of you get me wrong, I’m a HUGE Biedrins fan. I like better than Okur, a Kirilenko, a Ilgauskas, etc, the guy just plain works hard.
But all of this talk about rebounding figures is stupid. Stoudemire’s rebounding totals are less than Biedrins for 3 obvious reasons:
Stoudemire had Shaq playing alongside him, hence it’s hard to grab a rebound over your 300-pound teammate. Even in the past, Marion was getting the majority of these rebounds. With the Warriors’ Richardson gone (was the best rebounding shooting guard in the league at one point) and without much post-presence, Biedrins was the lone guy to get these rebounds.
The Warriors are one of the best offensive teams in the league. Hence tons of MISSED shots and too quick of a pace for the opponent to match their “quick-minded” offense. There were many balls for Biedrins to get… loose rebounds, offensively and defensively. Tons of 3’s and missed shots are tons of rebounds too. We weren’t efficient for plenty of games.
Golden State Warriors fan since 1984. The Filipino sensation!
The loudest Warrior fan in Section 208, Row DS, Seats 15-16.
by RayAlmeda on Jun 26, 2009 5:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs