Southwest Flight #SBN: OAK 2 PHX

by Atma Brother ONE on Jun 29, 2009 9:26 AM PDT in Links Comment 73 comments

Since word first broke that trade talks were really heating up between the Golden State Warriors and Phoenix Suns, there has been NONSTOP dialogue here at GSoM over the potential merits and pitfalls of this trade.

* Weighing the Rumor: cases for and against a deal for Stoudemire

* RECAP: Warriors' 2009 NBA Draft Day - Stephen Curry & Amar'e?

* Warriors Draft Day 2009: This Pretty Much Says It All

* OPEN THREAD III: 2009 NBA Draft Recap + Round 2

* OPEN THREAD: NBA 2k9 Draft Picks 8-30

* With the 7th pick in the 2009 NBA Draft the Golden State Warriors select... STEPHEN CURRY!

* RUMOR: Warriors inquired about Suns' Amare Stoudemire and offered Andris Biedrins

We know what the golden people think, but what do the sunny folk think about this rumored blockbuster deal?

Bright Side of the Sun

OAK 2 PHX is boarding...

Fly the friendly skies with SBN Hoops!

Daily snap poll: Is Curry the key? [Bright Side Of The Sun]

The question is should the Suns do the deal without Curry or Anthony Randolph in the mix?

I think it's time for GSoMers to send a message to Steve Kerr and the Suns. Let's mess with them a little bit. Vote: "They should do it anyway - time to move on"

Amare Trade Rumor Analysis w/ Golden State Warriors [Bright Side Of The Sun]

The core of the rumor suggests the Phoenix Suns are primarily interested in bringing Andris Biedrins and Stephen Curry over to the team. There seems to be crowds on both sides of the fence regarding this deal and rightfully so. But the fact of the matter is Amare needs to be traded and Both teams should be happy to make this deal on July 8th (the earlierst date this deal can be made).

Wouldn't it be funny if thousands of GSoMers rigged this poll and gave Kerr and company the inane notion that they were the team benefitting the most from this trade? I'm just saying...

Don't Trade Amare [Bright Side Of The Sun]

If the Warriors send us Curry, Bellinelli, Wright and Biedrins, then I might reconsider. Anything less, and I cannot accept this as a sound basketball decision. This is for four reasons:

Curry OR Wright and we're probably good to go. Monta instead of Biedrins and the Warriors keep Curry looks good as well.

THANKS FOR NOTHING, GOLDEN STATE [Bright Side Of The Sun]

But something unexpected happened on draft night-the stars aligned or the basketball gods answered Don Nelson’s drunken prayers: Minnesota drafted two point guards at 5 and 6-Ricky Rubio and Johnny Flynn. This left another point guard, Stephen Curry, on the board. Pleasantly shocked and amazed, the Warriors grabbed him. As the story goes, reports from the Suns war room describe an eruption of joyous glee. Steve Kerr and David Griffin bumped chests, and Alvin Gentry did a head spin reminiscent of one of the cast from "Breakin’ 2 Electric Boogaloo." The Suns had obtained a huge haul and the Steve Kerr moron meter had suddenly slanted from Utter Definite Moron to Mostly Competent GM. Yet at that moment, the deal was dead.

Dead is a strong word. I'd use dead to describe the Suns' window of contention (dead) or their front office blowing up ship before watching a full season of Amare Stoudemire, Steve Nash, Shaquille O'Neal, Jason Richardson, Grant Hill, Leandro Barbosa, and Matt Barnes and seeing how far they can go (brain dead).

Definitely head on over to Bright Side of the Sun. Please be respectful and mindful of their unique community etiquette and represent GSoM with class.

Poll

Will Amare Stoudemire like the Bay Area much better than Phoenix?

YES: The Bay is where it's at!

1227 votes

NO: He'll miss living with retired folk

298 votes

1525 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 73 comments | Share

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Comments

Don't want him

I’ve talked myself out of wanting Amare at all. Even if Curry/Randolph are NOT in the deal. We’re giving up a 23 year old who averaged 12 and 11 for a 26/27 who’s had a knee surgery, bad eyes and who averages 21 and 8? I thought we needed rebounding?

Won’t we have enough scoring with Ellis, Jax, Curry, Maggette, etc? We just need someone to tip the ball back in, not someone who is afraid to bang down low for boards.

by Eggman on Jun 29, 2009 9:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree the bay is nice

but don’t want amare

by GSW9 on Jun 29, 2009 10:10 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

if the warriors made a trade for a big man

they need defense; rebounding. this trade doesn’t address any problem…except the problem of no star. the last thing we need now is scoring.

by steelekord on Jun 29, 2009 10:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

ESPN says the deal is off if it had to be with Curry

http://espn.go.com/nba/

watch the Ric Bucher video

by dubzfan on Jun 29, 2009 10:18 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Thats Chris Broussard

Oakland Raiders Fan
Golden State Warriors Fan
San Francisco Giants Fan
San Jose Sharks Fan
MMA Fan
USC Trojan Fan

by i love sports101 on Jun 29, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like him better than Bucher.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 29, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

me too

You have been DFiBrillated.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 29, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Way better than Bucher. Him and Stephen A. Smith are my favorite analyst on espn.

It is the shoes!!!

by LighTz707OuT on Jun 29, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No way. No one likes Stephen A. Smith. He got fired like 6 months ago so I know this is sarcasm.

by Aemoc on Jun 29, 2009 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stephen A was the man. He spoke whatever was on his mind. His reaction to the Pau Gasol trade to the Lakers

It is the shoes!!!

by LighTz707OuT on Jun 29, 2009 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought you were joking too. Stephen A. is one of the worst analysts of anything ever.

by yo on Jun 29, 2009 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You don't think people who actually say what they feel, are good analyst?

Yeah Stephen A. might be cruel sometimes, but I rather have someone tell the truth of how they really feel about something, than to lie.

It is the shoes!!!

by LighTz707OuT on Jun 29, 2009 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah but steven a smith’s view of reality is so distorted and…well, wrong, that i usually have no interest in hearing what he has to say. he did make a.i. cry on his show though…so that’s something, i guess.

by rjnarayen on Jun 29, 2009 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

the fact that he spoke his mind didn’t bother me. The fact that he had such ridiculous views and had to YELL ABOUT THEM AS LOUD AS HE COULD TO MAKE SURE YOU KNEW HE WAS!!!!!! drove me crazy.

Thing A

by sam23 on Jun 29, 2009 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Remember his "interview style" show?

How long did that last? 1, 2 episodes? Did he get to 3? I saw a snippet once, he’s worse than Vitale. Enough said. I don’t even care about what he has to say, the way he says things makes me want to change the channel.

You have been DFiBrillated.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 30, 2009 6:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’d rather keep Biedrins and play Turiaf along side him for Defense. Randolph at the 3, Jackson at SG, and Ellis/Curry playing point. Maggette making us proud that he’s an overpaid 6th man of the year.

Figure it out next year, after we see if Ellis can handle the point guard duties… or make a trade at the trade deadline.

Fact is, is that Phoenix wants half our team for a player who’s body is already breaking down, and after the microfracture surgery, he may have already seen his best days… and will cost nearly twice what Biedrins is getting paid. I like him, he’s a helluva player, but I feel like the Warriors GM is trying to make a big splash now that he’s running the show.

by aBulldog on Jun 29, 2009 10:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

It's fine to worry about him breaking down in the future

But he’s certainly not breaking down yet… and the MF surgery didn’t stop him for a second (missed 3 games out of 217 games after the surgery). He may have already seen his better days, but he’s still a better player than Biedrins, and will likely be so for another 4-5 years. The question is how much he wants to be paid, and how quickly his skills will decline.

You’re right on point WRT the new GM trying to make a splash, but that doesn’t inherently make it a bad move.

You have been DFiBrillated.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 29, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I dont know

Id be happy with what we have for now, until a good deal that benefits us come sour way. I love the idea of Amar playing in the bay, but giving up 3-4 young and promising kids….. i don’t know if id like that.

But, If we do get him somehow with a trade, ill support it as long as we don’t give up Curry.

Gotta love the Bay Area drama ;)

by JayFerg on Jun 29, 2009 10:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Biedrins Deal

Don’t forget, Biedrins is signed to a reasonable deal for 5 more years. That leaves us room to get someone else in a few years, as opposed to signing Amare long term.

Do you realize what the Suns are trying to do? This could be their lineup in 2 years if the deal goes down.

With Curry:

1 – Curry
2 – J-Rich
3 – Barnes
4 – Wright
5 – Biedrins

W/out Curry:

1 – Bellinelli
2 – J-Rich
3 – Barnes
4 – Wright
5 – Biedrins

That would be depressing to watch those guys flourish in PHX.

by Eggman on Jun 29, 2009 11:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

That would be depressing to watch those guys flourish in PHX.

but even more depressing to watch them suck here. If we keep curr-bury we’ve got two tweener guards that can’t play big defense along with rudolf, wright, and dris three stickmen bigs that can’t post up so we’re sentenced to another year of small ball and trying to compete with real NBA sized teams. If we can move Ellis or Curry along with Wright and some other players for Amare we can’t be any worse off than we are now, we don’t need to keep duplicate parts for our team. An unproven tweener guard from a minor college for an NBA allstar is a no brainer move and the kind that validates management’s resolve for a winning team. Remember the Garnett non trade? were we better off not making it?

Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jun 29, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Remember the Garnett non trade? were we better off not making it?

I don’t think that option was on the table. I don’t think Minny ever considered our offer better than Boston’s.

You have been DFiBrillated.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 29, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It was on the table.

The Boston Celtics were not willing to trade Al Jefferson at first.

The Warriors just made a mistake by signing Brandan Wright, it caused them to have to wait a month or so before they could finally trade him. The Warriors most likely already had a deal ready with Minnesota, it’s just that they had to wait until August 26th before Brandan Wright was eligible to be involved in a trade.

The problem here is that the long wait for August 26th gave the Celtics enough time to finally give in and decide to offer Al Jefferson, which became a better deal than what the Warriors could offer. Had the Warriors not signed Brandan Wright, they could have traded him in a package for Kevin Garnett before the Celtics could have time to consider parting ways with Al Jeferson.

PG: Baron Davis
SG: Stephen Jackson
SF: Al Harrington
PF: Kevin Garnett
C: Andris Biedrins

PG: Baron Davis
SG: Monta Ellis
SF: Stephen Jackson
PF: Al Harrington
C: Kevin Garnett

Either one of those teams are deadly. The Warriors haven’t had an elite big man since they had a rookie Chris Webber back in ‘94. Their inside-outside game would be tough for other teams to handle and they would have KG providing the team with a strong presence inside to anchor their defense in addition to the quick hands and swarming D that Golden State showed in the 2007 playoffs. KG’s rebounding would proved tons of extra outlet passes for quick fastbreak points. ahhhhh, oh well.

by Precise Films Productions on Jun 29, 2009 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Care to provide references?

This is the first time I’ve heard this take. FWIW, taking Al Jefferson out of the Celtics trade is ridiculously unfair:

Al Jefferson
Ryan Gomes
Gerald Green
Sebastian Telfair
Theo Ratliff
Two first-round draft picks (#18 in ’07 and #28 in ’09)
Cash considerations

First, I don’t think the salaries even remotely match up, and second, there is absolutely nothing of value that the Wolves would be receiving. I’m sorry, but your assertion that Boston wasn’t offering Jefferson is highly, highly suspect. Unless they were offering Pierce or something… which they weren’t.

You have been DFiBrillated.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 29, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m pretty sure everything in PFP’s post is 99% pure fabrication.

Start with a “feeling” that the 06/97 Warriors were thisclose to being a championship team. Make up a bunch of “facts” out of whole cloth to support the feeling. It’s BushCheney Tactics 101.

Thing 1

by Sleepy Freud on Jun 29, 2009 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Muah!

Haha, I love you.

by Aemoc on Jun 29, 2009 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thing A

by sam23 on Jun 29, 2009 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ha, and take that, right wing nuts!

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 29, 2009 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

YEAH! TAKE THAT YOU BASTARDS!!!!! ………..that “rich” tax bracket is falling so fast I figured I better hurry up and switch sides before they decide to come after me and try to take the bathtub full of student loan money I roll around in every day.

Thing A

by sam23 on Jun 29, 2009 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Praise Clinton!

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 29, 2009 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know...

I’m realizing that I’ve got a lot of republican tendencies, but the whole “Christian right” is going to be a lot for me to get over. Help me out here.

You have been DFiBrillated.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 30, 2009 6:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thats about where I’m at. The more I look at the Libertarian POV the more I lean in that direction, the bad thing about that is I’m now starting to see some far right nutjobs claming that there actually Libertarian and I’m not sure what the game is. Is it do discredit or try to bring what they call RINO’s over to there cause.

There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.

by qin on Jun 30, 2009 7:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know how you feel, and I really don’t know what to tell you. The last year or so has really turned me off from a large part of the “christian right.” I know that here in the bay area I’m not exactly in touch with the views of the typical potential republican voter right now, but I still find it hard to believe that pandering entirely to the religious voter on a platform of almost entirely religion based issues is the answer for the Republican party. The Palin-ites seem to grow kookier and more detached from the rest of the world by the day. It feels like the Republicans are in a s-storm they conjured up. Yea the last few elections should’ve told them something, but it shouldn’t have told them they need to lose their f’ing minds and start individually yelling as loud as they can and trying desperately to grab as many headlines as they can to take control of the “direction” of the party. Like qin points out, it even has a good many fleeing to find the cool new party…. They should be working to add the libertarian voter but not looking to switch titles entirely in some sort of weird, desperate ploy to escape the past. Its really odd and I hope all the disarray is just what we see on the surface through the media and that underneath there still exist some sense-making, small government, lower taxing, state’s rights republicans waiting to emerge once everything begins to settle and all the crazy voices quiet down.

Thing A

by sam23 on Jun 30, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

there still exist some sense-making, small government, lower taxing, state’s rights republicans waiting to emerge once everything begins to settle and all the crazy voices quiet down.

I have no doubt that these people exist, but… have you seen the guy standing on the corner screaming “The end is near!” or the PTSD vietnam vet? Crazy people tend not to shut up for a very long time…

On the left, at least the crazys are all clamoring for something different (whether it be welfare, environmental protection, handouts, jobs, handouts for other stuff, more regulation, etc.), the religious nut jobs are more sheep-y and think whatever their head religious nut jobs tell them to think.

I can sort of understand the “means to an end” argument (pander to the big religious special interest group so you don’t have to win over the thousands of other special interest groups), but I could never look myself in the mirror after standing beside some religious or militaristic nut job on election day, and I could never fully trust a candidate willing to advocate for the views of the religious and militaristic nut jobs. I’ll take the inaction and idiocy of somebody pulled in a thousand different directions over the strong action of an idiotic leader led by some eons old prophet whose words are constantly misinterpreted and reinterpreted to appease whoever is in power in the church at a given time.

You have been DFiBrillated.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 30, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’ll take the inaction and idiocy of somebody pulled in a thousand different directions over the strong action of an idiotic leader led by some eons old prophet whose words are constantly misinterpreted and reinterpreted to appease whoever is in power in

Me too. I’m for science, education, and understanding instead of dogma. I don’t want to live my life by 2000 year old rules, we can do so much better if we just open our eyes and recognize what we are seeing.

Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jun 30, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm content

with the players on our team right now. There’s still a lot of unknown about how this team can perform when they’re all healthy. I can see them fighting for an 8th seed as of right now.

1. Lakers
2. Nuggets
3. Blazers
4. Spurs (Ginoboli comes back fully healthy, although they added more offensive power with Jefferson)
5. Rockets (Brooks, Artest…McGrady, and Yao)
6/7. Dallas/Utah (It’s a toss-up…depends how well they do on the road)
8. Warriors/Hornets/ up-and-coming Thunder?

I think with Amare though, they’d be at least fighting for the 5th seed. I voted for giving up Beans, Wright, and Marco. Suns can take it or leave it. They’ll probably leave it but oh well. They’re rebuilding anyways, why not start off with some of our youngins?

This is Kristin Kreuk, now zip it. - GTTM

by disguy on Jun 29, 2009 11:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Kerr has no choice unless he can come up with something better.

Even then it is arguable that this trade should not happen.

Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!

by Nuck Chorris on Jun 29, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Minus Yao

The Thunder are going to surprise a lot of people.

It is the shoes!!!

by LighTz707OuT on Jun 29, 2009 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i like our roster as is… nellie is a problem. we need a coach that will light a fire under them. i just see no hustle to play d. anyone can play half a** defense if they try… jackson needs to get back, instead of complaining about every turnover he commits.

by FANofDUBS on Jun 29, 2009 11:28 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

20/8 for 20 Million for a high volume no defense shooter.

Or a 12/11, $10 million player who picks up the slack.

On a team that needs defense and rebounding that should be a no-brainer.

Amare’s got leadership issues, and he is 4 years older than Biedrins. Not to mention the knee. People on these forums pshaw and scoff when it is brought up, but anyone who has had arthroscopic knee surgery knows that your knees are NEVER the same. I didn’t, but a couple family members did. My brother has full range of motion and strength, but the stamina in his knee is done. The recovery time needed from workouts is ridiculous, and the soreness is killer.

Amare is a huge liability yet he will demand a max contract. Bringing him to the bay would only increase ticket sales. Not the long term goal of getting a championship.

If W’s rent an Amare and he walks then the W’s are screwed. Centers in the free agency are at a premium for the next 2 years. Besides Amare isn’t even a real center.

The Warriors should be focusing on improving their perimeter defense and rebounding. I feel Randolph and a healthy Biedrins takes care of the rebounding. A big bodied backup PF would be nice, but the real need is perimeter defense.

People are senselessly seeing stars. This move has ticket sales written all over it. On top of that an early move for Amare would give the team an excuse to buy out Claxton and pocket the money. Please, no.

Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!

by Nuck Chorris on Jun 29, 2009 11:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Calling Amare a “high volume shooter” is a pretty bad mischaracterization. He scores at a high rate, and he does it efficiently. I also don’t buy any argument that Biedrins D is significantly better than Stoudemire’s. Biedrins is definitely a better rebounder.

I think at this point everyone acknowledges any trade for Amare will be with an extension, there won’t be a trade for a one year rental.

by Missing Barry on Jun 29, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't say he wasn't efficient, but there are only so many shots in a game, and he does demand a lot of plays be called for him.

Who’s shots is he going to get? More importantly, who’s going to rebound when he’s shooting outside of the paint (besides Randolph)?

Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!

by Nuck Chorris on Jun 29, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

I vote he gets Jackson’s shots and the unclaimed leftovers from Crawford. That should be enough to make him happy (and us better).

by Missing Barry on Jun 29, 2009 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hear hear!

You have been DFiBrillated.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 29, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Monta?

You can’t say “besides Randolph” because he’s designated as the big part of our rebounding effort alongside STAT. That’s like saying “Who on the Cavs doesn’t suck (besides LeBron)?” It’s an unfair question. Maggette rebounds well for a SF, Kelenna is alright. Monta is excellent for a PG and decent for a SG. Turiaf is… well, not great, but not worthless. We’ll be fine. With Biedrins, I think we’d be great though.

You have been DFiBrillated.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 29, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

They can't always be on the floor at the same time.

Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!

by Nuck Chorris on Jun 29, 2009 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I pray we don't trade for Amare

Amare could be fools gold.

by Golden Boy on Jun 29, 2009 11:33 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Or just gold gold

You have been DFiBrillated.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 29, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hope we don’t trade for anyone…they could be fool’s gold. I’m afraid our own good player’s might be fool’s gold too so I’m hoping we just don’t play next year.

Thing A

by sam23 on Jun 29, 2009 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ladies and gentleman, your Fool’s Golden State Warriors!

Thing 1

by Sleepy Freud on Jun 30, 2009 6:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok...did anyone else hear this?

On Draft day, I was listening to ESPN Radio…we had all heard the rumors about the Amar’e Trade, at the time I heard it, it was for Bean/Wright and Belinelli. They SPECIFICALLY mentioned that the #7 pick “might NOT” be part of the deal. And the Warriors were probably going to be picking for themselves….

Now, I’m hearing all the griping about how we backed out of the deal and completely lost the trust of the Suns??? COME ON! Gimme a break…

We’re breaking the bank if we give up that many young talents. The suns have to be realistic, Amar’e is prop not going to re-up w/ them at this point. They need to get value back NOW. And Beans, Wright, and Marco are solid players that can def contribute. If THEY don’t want them, then fine….lets keep them and move on.

by esco41510 on Jun 29, 2009 11:55 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Even if the Warriors took Jordan Hill if Hill AND Wright AND Biedrins were included in the deal the Warriors (if they’re smart) still probably wouldn’t have made the trade.

by so ill so d0pe on Jun 29, 2009 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

A'M'A'R'E' = SECOND COMING

of ralph sampson of course
hope u guys didnt think kenny meant jebus

ANY QUESTIONS???

by KennySeagle on Jun 29, 2009 12:00 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs

This just in from PX

Kerr on EXTRA 910 @ Amare to GSW

Tiny by john5cole on Jun 29, 2009 12:17 PM PDT Comment 0 comments

Kerr was on extra 910 and had a bunch of interesting stuff to say about the suns. Head over to sportsradiointerviews.com for the transcription and some commentary. The most pertinent quote is the following:

On the rumors of trading Amare to Golden State:

“Has there been talk? Yes, of course there’s been talk and I mentioned last night that we’ve had conversations with 5 or 6 teams about plenty of deals. This one has been discussed. Beyond that, that’s about all I can say. I don’t normally comment on any details of trades and nor will I now but I will you yes, it has been discussed and it’s something that both teams will consider and we’ll see if it has legs.”

by ForestGrump on Jun 29, 2009 12:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Pretty sure talks are dead with Kerr because there’s no way Warriors will be including Curry or Randolph for Amare. It’s probably a take it or leave it offer of Beans, Marco and Wright for Amare since there’s a big chance Amare leaves PHX after 09-10 and then the Suns will have nothing in return.

I’m fine either way as Curry seems to be the real deal and I think this team as is with a healthy Monta/Biedrins/Maggette plus the improvements of Randolph and Morrow will be at least 10 games better than last year’s squad.

Mo'ped Money, Mo'ped Problems

by Scooter Ellis on Jun 29, 2009 12:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Curry seems to be the real deal

Explain.

with a healthy Monta/Biedrins/Maggette plus the improvements of Randolph and Morrow will be at least 10 games better than last year’s squad.

Without the improvements we should be about 10 games better. With the improvements, we should be 15 games better… but with Amare we should be 15 games better without any improvements. I just hope they’re not mortgaging the future for a few years as a #7 seed and a quick first round exit.

You have been DFiBrillated.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 29, 2009 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fifteen...

…games is an awful lot of wins for Stoudemire to bring assuming zero maturation or improvement from Morrow and Randolph. You’re banking on the worst defensive team in the league winning an extra 15 games purely by more offense, in essence, since we know we’re not getting any out of Monta and Maggette.

by Zack Vank on Jun 29, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Keep in mind that assuming health for Monta, Jax, and Maggette already counts for 7-10 games of improvement

Going from Biedrins to Amare would be a 5-8 game improvement, IMHO.

You have been DFiBrillated.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 29, 2009 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

it should be amare for maggette, wright and marco

yeah….

by placid on Jun 29, 2009 1:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Doesn't make any sense for PHX

Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."

by rsavaj on Jun 29, 2009 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

….I think it’s still a stretch to assume that a healthy Monta helps us win as constituted in either case, unless he becomes a passable defender. It can’t be overstated how atrocious a ball defender he is, and he allows penetration straight to the basket whenever the opposing team decides to try it. This is a problem for both Biedrins and the presumed Stoudemire. Biedrins’ foul rate isn’t just so high because he’s unlucky or without skill. With Ellis at the one or two, you’ve essentially asked your big men to guard two players at once.

by Zack Vank on Jun 29, 2009 2:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I should...

…clarify that the allowed penetration isn’t only Monta, though he’s abysmal in that regard. Somebody needs to start coaching these guys on proper defensive postures. There are things you can physically to prepare yourself the best possible way for either a shot or drive. Spreewell came up in another thread recently, and Atma mentioned his defensive stance. Which was indeed a very intimidating, but also ruthlessly effective position he’d assume. It’s like every Warrior nowadays sits back on his heels.

by Zack Vank on Jun 29, 2009 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah it’s more a coaching issue than a players issue. Nelson demands no defense out of them, and he gets no defense out of them. Even Jackson, who’s a good on ball wing defender, rarely puts the effort in. Nelson doesn’t hold anyone accountable though – they stay in the game as long as they contribute on offense. Monta at times has shown the ability to at least be a passable defender on 1’s (or small 2’s), but like everyone else, just doesn’t consistently put in any effort. Unless waiving a hand at a passing offensive player is considered effort…

by Missing Barry on Jun 30, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Even Jackson, who’s a good on ball wing defender, rarely puts the effort in

It’s because of the small ball game plan and the fast pace. If we had a real halfcourt game and some bigs that could post up our players could afford to spend more energy on defense. One of the main reasons nellie has never won a ring btw. and continuing still, we had a chance to draft a strong post player and he took montay part 2 instead. What’s that line about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result the next time?

Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jun 30, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Biedrins Foul Rate Per 36

Agreed completely on Monta’s atrocious defense and along with Watson they’re a revolving door allowing opposing guards to penetrate at will. That makes it hard for ANY big man to compensate for.

But Biedrins’ foul rate has always been high. It appears like it’s leveled off at a high rate regardless of whether he’s playing with Ellis or not.

2004-05: 8.2 fouls per 36
2005-06: 6.8 fouls per 36 (Good god 2004-2006 were disastrous.)
2006-07: 4.6 fouls per 36
2007-08: 4.5 fouls per 36
2008-09: 4.6 fouls per 36 (NOTE: Biedrins and Monta only played together a handful of games)

Regardless of who he’s playing with Biedrins just fouls a ton. I doubt that’s ever going to change. He’s slow on a lot of rotations and his timing is off. His coordination is a little clumsy and his movements can be very jerky, so I can’t say I see that ever changing.

For comparison’s sake Amare’s is coming off the lowest foul rate of his career at 3.0- not that it means much. Just tossing it out there.

by Atma Brother ONE on Jun 29, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's true...

…that Andris is a high fouler (which would be a good documentary about a pothead NBA player), it’d be pretty hard for me to argue against that. I wouldn’t even be surprised if Amare maintained a lower foul rate than Biedrins playing for us, but I’m concerned that would come at the additional expense of our defense. Biedrins, being a (highly efficient but) staggeringly limited offensive player, probably is more often than not more willing to committ a foul than Amare. I’m worried, honestly, as much perimeter penetration as we allow, that Amare’s instincts as a marquee scorer are going to make him more likely to hang back, and not contest those cutters as agressively.

Obviously the concern of Stoudemire playing poor defense is moot in a certain sense because he’s never been good at it, but bearing in mind the circumstances that would surround him, he could well become even more of a sieve than before. In that capacity, trading AB for him strikes me as a thoroughly lateral move- although one I can understand the enthusiasm about. Amare was on fire his first few years in the league, and he was hyped as one of the best forwards going. It’s odd to see how quickly, and at what a relatively young age those proclamations seem to have disappeared, but injuries, dischord, and Tim Duncan seem to have thoroughly stalled STAT’s legacy in the realm of perennial All-Star, but not superstar nor franchise frontman. I know you tend to take a more dim view of Steve Nash than most (and apologies if I’ve misinterpreted your view on it), but he’s a pick and roll virtuoso. I worry that without Nash, he’ll invariably have the ball in less advantagious post position, and then he’ll start to drift to the perimeter (which would certainly be likely for our team anyhow) pretty soon we’ll have a max contract midrange gunner locked up til he’s thirty three. I worry that this is a move that might placate the front office or fans into thinking we’re getting contention when we’re not.

by Zack Vank on Jun 29, 2009 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

he’s a pick and roll virtuoso. I worry that without Nash, he’ll invariably have the ball in less advantagious post position,

If Curry is the next Nash as the old crazy drunk sez then the obvious solution is trade them Montay and Dris and let Curry and Amare be our version of Nash and Amare?

Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jun 29, 2009 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

as the old crazy drunk sez

Yeah, we should believe that guy.

You have been DFiBrillated.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 30, 2009 6:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

yea I think even Don Nelson said last year (talking about Crawford) that if you’re NEVER in foul trouble it probably means you aren’t working very hard on defense.

Thing A

by sam23 on Jun 29, 2009 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs