I’m really bad at typing today

“Go look at the numbers- AI on the Nuggets in 07-08 was superior to the Billups on the Nuggets in 08-09.”

You mean their assist numbers? (All numbers are AI Denver only 07-08 vs. Billups Denver only 08-09, per 36 minutes played, unless otherwise noted)
AI: 6.2 CB: 6.5

How about their rebounding numbers?
AI: 2.6 CB: 3.0

The differences are small, but non-trivial.

To be fair, AI did shoot a higher percentage, although I suspect that the number you’re primarily basing this comparison on isn’t that, but rather:
PPG:
AI: 26.4 CB: 17.9.

Because that’s the number that AI’s fans always fixate on.

Furthermore, if you read the ESPN OTL article about Billups – (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=090511/billups) you’ll see several examples of how AI’s toxicity spread beyond the box score. Here’s a key quote:

Key members of the organization say that Iverson has partied some nights until 3 in the morning, and that Denver’s two most crucial players — Anthony and J.R. Smith — have tried to keep up with him. They say Anthony and Smith look at Iverson with reverence, the same way Chauncey’s generation looked at Michael Jordan. So when A.I. says, “Let’s go out,’” they go out. When A.I. wears a sleeve on his arm, they wear a sleeve. Especially the impressionable Smith, who has never met a shot he didn’t like.

Iverson also has a long history of being allergic to practice, and not being a hard worker, and not caring about team defense. And you look at the trade, and what do you see happened? Denver’s opponents FG% went down 17 points between 07/08 and 08/09 – but Denver’s FG percentage stayed the same! In other words, they didn’t miss AI’s “better” offense at all.

So if you say you “don’t buy” their improved defense, I don’t know what to tell you. The evidence is indisputable. .17 points, teamwide, is not trivial. The only thing I can conclude is that you’re willfully ignoring evidence that makes AI look bad.

What other difference can we see, looking at the stat sheet for those two teams. Well, Denver’s 3pt% went up, and the number of 3pt shots went down. Isn’t that perfectly consistent with what everyone is saying happened: that the team started running more of a team offense and taking better, smarter shots, rather than people going for themselves? They basically stopped taking bad threes, and their percentage went up! Couldn’t replacing AI’s 35% 3-pt shooting with CB’s 41% shooting have something to do with that, as well as the leadership qualities which got so many other Denver players to stop taking so many bad threes? (CB shoots more 3s than AI, as he should, since he hits a higher percentage of them. What’s obvious to anyone who’s watched them both play, however, is that CB’s threes come in the flow of the offense, whereas AI’s don’t.)

You say that AI has more steals, and that’s true. Unfortunately, that’s not actually a sign of good defense. AI, throughought his whole career, has gambled for steals often. This is, quite simply, bad defense, because when you gamble and miss you usually give your opponent an easy look at the basket. CB, on the other hand, plays solid team defense. So he may get fewer steals, but he gives up fewer easy looks, too. Anybody who’s played basketball on an even slightly organized level knows that good, solid man-up defense is more important than gambling for steals.

Nellie and Riley just flew out to his home to ask him/ convince him to be more of a distributor.

Ummm… I thought it was to convince him that he’s still their PG even though they’ll likely draft a guard (or rather, you were promoting TK’s take that Monta was giving them a “you’re not drafting a PG” ultimatum, which turned out to be false). So… now they were pleading for him to be more of a distributor?

Nellie has held practices in the past where Monta isn’t allowed to take a shot, so he can open up his court vision.

This is called practice. Just because you’re practicing something doesn’t mean that you’re awful at it, just that you’d like to be better. Ray Allen still shoots jumpers after practice. Does that mean he’s a bad jump shooter? No, just that he’d like to stay in practice and that he’d even like to get better.

Pointing out the facts isn’t "nonsensical hatred". It’s reality. I know that’s hard for Warriors homers to get over.

Whatever. Enjoy your altered reality where JRich is worth his contract, Monta is the devil, Biedrins is the love child of Elijah from Unbreakable and Snuggle, Chris Mullin has never learned a thing, and Tim Kawakami is right at least 20% of the time.

If Iverson gets the same playing time and healthy that’s a negative. The ppg could be close if AI’s on a slowdown team, but I’d bet on AI if he’s on a high scoring team.

MPG/PPG/APG/TOPG
Ellis 08-09
35.7/19.0/3.7/2.68

AI 08-09
36.7/17.4/5.0/2.6

But you’re betting on Ellis with a career average of 3.5 assists and 2.2 turnovers, who truth be told isn’t the sharpest cat in the league will beat AI’s 7.2 apg and 3.0 turnovers in his last full healthy season?

You’re right, let’s take a 2nd round player who wasn’t ready to contribute for 2 years, got better each year, and had a major injury setback which really hurt his stats the following year and look at his career A:T numbers. Then let’s compare those numbers to the single best A:T season of a player with 13 years of experience. Forget the rest of AI’s career or the fact that he’s really, really old and won’t be the focal point of any offense anymore while Monta is going to step into the “focal point of the offense” role for the first time this year. Let’s look at the statistics that favor my argument and ignore any and all others or any mitigating circumstances.

Yeah, that’s totally a fair use of statistics. Totally, I’m way on board with you there Atma.

No one wants to have a discussion with someone who loves to hear themselves talk, but doesn’t listen.

This reminds me of someone… I can’t quite remember who though.

Go look it up.

OK.

FG percentage:
ME: .531 AI: .458

Uh, hello! That’s one of the most important numbers in the game, and Monta CREAMS Iverson there.

Rebounds/36min:

 ME: 4.7 AI: 2.6

Again, not close. Monta is nearly twice the rebounder than AI is.

Steals were 1.7-1.5 for AI, a slight edge although neither of them are good defenders (at least partly for the same reason: lack of effort.)

Assists, AI wins, 6.2 – 3.7, which is not surprisingly since Monta was not playing point that year.

Turnovers, Monta was better, 2.0 to 2.6, although that’s not very meaningful because Monta handled the ball a lot less.

AI was a much better 3-pt shooter, but Monta – like all smart players who aren’t good 3-pt shooters, simply didn’t shoot very many threes, at .6/36min.

Please explain how you figure that AI was better than Monta in 07-08.

Or should I just assume you rank players by PPG, and ignore how those points were actually scored?

yea I don’t really think we have a realistic shot at any of those guys (well maybe Iverson, but I doubt there’s much interest there)

Chris Wallace doing it again. LA got an expiring contract for for ZBo and didnt have to toss in any of their young players or a draft pick. Great move for the Clips. They should be able to get a decent player for Kaman or a good player for Camby’s expiring deal if they chose to get rid of one of those guys.

where did you hear the Raptors are out of the running?

Im runnin out of patience with him