Did we miss out?
So I was taking a look around the summer league and noticed a few faces that the warriors were linked to. Not to say we did not get an excellent pick in Curry. Seems like he will fit right in the Warriors run and gun (much more of the later) style. I did however want to put out there that the Warriors coaching/decision making crew is always under a microscope and will continue to be.
I feel like our decision making crew is way off base on some players we pick up, or release. Take a look at Marcus Williams first game with the Griz
Not saying he was the best player we have ever seen, but when we were struggling for a floor general last season we couldn't have used 17 assists vs. 1 TO. Makes me think that maybe he just got a bad rap with Nellie, and just never really got out of the funk. What would have happened if Randolph never got out of his funk either??? Would he be dropping 24 and 10 for another squad?
At the same time Nellie puts so much praise in CJ (despite his horrendous ole on ball defense) and dare I say it ROB KURZ. So much of this team frustrates me, and most of it is surrounding the major decision makers. It would be nice to see us actually keep one of our young talented players. Hopefully we will find out how to do this once Randolph is due for an extension.
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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63 comments
Comments
Summer league doesn’t mean much. I’m not expressing an opinion on Marcus Williams, I just want to point out that making a judgement based on a summer league performance is not going to be a well informed judgement…
by Missing Barry on Jul 13, 2009 11:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
blow out win in SL don't mean much
Plus we have marco who is better (and CJ is probably too)
by mosdl on Jul 13, 2009 11:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No surpise...
Because Williams has logged 3 seasons in the NBA. Hell he was briefly a starter for New Jersey. It’s like the Warriors having Acie Law on the court. He’s going to look strong against a bunch of 1st and 2nd year players, let against all the fringe NBA guys filling out the various rosters on these summer league squads. Hell, if Williams, or Law for that matter, struggled then it would be a pretty good sign that something isn’t right with their game.
Another example is Belinelli for the Warriors. He dominated in his 1st summer league tour, but really that wasn’t much of a surprise because he’d been playing in a higher level of competition in Europe for several years. What we should want to see as fans is three fold.
1) Can our young draftees play and dominate the competition?
2) Are their any diamonds in the rough that could fill out the Warriors roster like Morrow did last season?
3) Can our 2nd year (or older) players get the work in that team feels they need to improve on their game (like Law playing PG)?
Overall I wouldn’t put much stock into one game from Marcus Williams (especially against the Thunder) and quote it as an indictment of Nellie. Perhaps if Williams dominated for the whole summer then we could start talking the “what if…” game about him and the Warriors.
A Sonics fan without a team... but 6 season now of GS Warriors ticket have convinced me to adopt the boys from Oakland.
by mcwalter44 on Jul 13, 2009 11:52 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Two things
Not saying I necessarily disagree, but, Acie Law is doing pretty bad so far isn’t he?
Also, the Thunder may suck, but one thing they do not lack is young talent. With Westbrook I would be surprised if they were considered a lower tier summer league team.
But yeah, can’t put stock into SL, especially not one game.
by belilaugh on Jul 13, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
good for M. Will
he’s playing with a chip on his shoulder.
by bojangles408 on Jul 13, 2009 11:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Or is just good that's playing at all
A Sonics fan without a team... but 6 season now of GS Warriors ticket have convinced me to adopt the boys from Oakland.
by mcwalter44 on Jul 13, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it’s gonna make it that much harder for him when he sits on someone’s bench all season.
by rjnarayen on Jul 13, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
like others have stated, it’s SL. Last year, Donte Greene put up 40 points while George Hill shot 8% (ouch) for the entire SL.
you also have to factor that that OKC team was playing on dead legs. 6th game in 7 nights and their off day was spent flying in from Orlando to Vegas.
http://www.nba.com/magic/news/sl_schedule.html
dates are off by a day, but you get the picture.
by homer simpson on Jul 13, 2009 12:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Assists are differrent than points though
by 123707THIZZ on Jul 13, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no doubt, but there have probably been guys who posted up big numbers in assists, rebounds, blocks or steals who you didn’t expect to in SL.
i wouldn’t discount how tired OKC was. they played 5 straight games (Mon-Fri), flew from Orlando to Vegas on Saturday, and had to play a rested Grizzlies team on Sunday.
glad for Marcus though – hopefully he gets some time backing up Conley in Memphis this season, but i doubt we “missed out” on a player. would suck if they pick up Iverson and he gets buried on the bench again.
besides, if he helped us by playing more last season, we might have had the 8th pick instead of the 7th and got stuck with Jordan “Amar’e (yeah right)” Hill.
by homer simpson on Jul 13, 2009 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the williams we saw
was very capable of making plays when just reacting to an opportunity, but seemed to have minimal hoops-i.q. and very inconsistent effort. that was a terrible combination in a player who needs to have the ball to contribute. playing against a team too tired to defend with a summer league roster might have been like the proverbial snatching candy from babes.
by the.monk on Jul 13, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm afraid we did miss out
Marcus had great vision and was a terrific with assists during last season for the W’s. He was able to see Jackson coming off the court all dehydrated and sweating so he picked up his dribble and quickly assist him with a towel plus a Gatorade, now that’s G.
With Kurz gone now, we would have needed somebody like Marcus to make sure the Gatorade’s on ice, towels stacked neatly and to look good in a suit. But no, Nellie sent him packing and now they might only have Jermareo to take over Marcus’ duties and supply Beans with his quarterly hair gelling.
Mo'ped Money, Mo'ped Problems
by Scooter Ellis on Jul 13, 2009 12:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The Anwser to the post is YES
Don gets myopic at times, He has a good eye for what fits his style of basketballer, but that don’t always translate to a good baller:
He traded Kidd didn’t he? rest my case =)
by ForestGrump on Jul 13, 2009 1:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Um...
The first big move came in December, as Jason Kidd, Loren Meyer and Tony Dumas were traded to the Phoenix Suns for guards Michael Finley and Sam Cassell and forward A. C. Green. .
That’s from wikipedia… not the greatest source. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Mavericks#Starting_over_.281996.E2.80.932001.29
You’re telling me you wouldn’t take Finley & Cassell for a disgruntled Kidd. Hell, because of that one move, Phoenix ends up giving up on Nash and trading him a few years later to Dallas. Needless to say Nellie ended up with the better end of the deal and Kidd ended up being disgruntled again and shipped off for Marburry.
A Sonics fan without a team... but 6 season now of GS Warriors ticket have convinced me to adopt the boys from Oakland.
by mcwalter44 on Jul 13, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He traded Kidd didn’t he? rest my case =)
date of the article when Jason Kidd was traded by the Mavericks 12/27/1996.
http://articles.latimes.com/1996-12-27/sports/sp-12906_1_jason-kidd
Don Nelson was hired by the Mavericks as GM on Feb. 7, 1997.
come on guys. “fact” check. it took me less than 30 seconds to check your “fact”.
by homer simpson on Jul 13, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He traded Kidd didn’t he? rest my case =)
No, he didn’t.
[Case dismissed for attorney negligence.]
by jae on Jul 13, 2009 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
His next case will be fighting those Rule 11 Sanctions for lack of diligence in his fact finding.
by VigilanteSteve on Jul 13, 2009 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's odd
According to the book “More Than A Game” by Phil Jackson and Charley Rosen, Rosen wrote, "Midway through [Jimmy] Cleamon’s first season, Don Nelson was named the Maverick’s general manager. “Nellie told the media that he didn’t want to coach the team,” said Cleamons, “and that he was only concerned with helping to make me a better coach. Nevertheless, Nellie was to criticize the way the team reacted to trapping defense. Nellie did quiz me about the Triangle, but his lack of enthusiasm was clear. He said that Michael was the only reason we’d won the in Chicago.” (this is an insight of how loveable/kind/terrific/___fill in the blank with words that you desire Nellie is/was)
“Nelson had barely settle into the command chair when he engineered a pair of trades: the first one sent guard Jason Kidd, forward Tony Dumas, and center Loren Meyer to Phoenix for guard/forward Michael Finley, forward A.C. Green, and guard Sam Cassell. Six weeks later Nelson dealt center Eric Montross, guard Jimmy Jackson, forward/center Chris Gatling, forward/center George McCloud, and guard Sam Cassell to the New Jersey Nets in exchange for a quarter of only moderately talented players -center Shawn Bradley, forward Ed O’Bannon, guard Khalid Reeves, and guard Robert Pack.”
What is true?
**Quotes were stolen on pages 157 and 158
by Shells on Jul 14, 2009 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As far as I can tell, Kidd was traded in December 1996, and Nelson was named GM of the Mavericks in Feburary of 1997.
Whew, there’s another sports book I don’t need to bother reading. Fact checking FTL.
Thing C
by markdash on Jul 14, 2009 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nelson was coach of the NY Knickerbockers until Mar.8, 1996
and no matter how nefarious and manipulative his critics make him out to be, that gives him an alibi for the Kidd trade. people (probably including rosen and jackson if your citation is accurate) like blaming him both for alienating ewing in NY and trading away kidd from Dal, but being in both places at the same time might be a little out of his powers.
the reference i used to confirm the chronology was the NY Times, the top level nba writer H.Araton.
by the.monk on Jul 14, 2009 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure what is facts.
Doesn’t trades take awhile to negotiate?
And hasn’t Riley been playing GM long before he’s named the GM? Like he didn’t even know he’s gonna be GM?
Regardless, is it that important? I’ll let you men debate over the issue.
by Shells on Jul 14, 2009 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah we did miss out.
I was really excited for Marcus coming into the season but for some reason Nellie didn’t play him.
You know what I hate? I hate it when Nellie doesn’t play certain people in games because of how they do in PRACTICE. We never got a chance to see Marcus play decent minutes, we rarely got a chance to see him on the court, and all of this was because of him not doing well in practice. I mean, can the fans at least see for themselves how the players do on the court in the actual NBA game, instead of just judging their minutes based on how bad they do in practice? Give them a chance.
And you know, the Warriors would have missed out on Anthony Randolph as well if it wasn’t for Brandan Wright’s shoulder injury. The whole season, Nellie didn’t like Randolph because Anthony didn’t do good in PRACTICE and there were times where Rob Kurz would put him to work in PRACTICE. Nellie even went about and talked about trading Randolph.
Brandan Wright was playing more minutes than Randolph, but went down with an injury. At this point, Nellie had no choice but to play Randolph and was greeted with a pleasant surprise as Anthony started playing more. So basically, I don’t think Nellie planned to teach Randolph how to “wait for his turn”, I actually think that this whole “Randolph finally getting minutes and showing how incredibly good he is” situation was an accident and Nellie didn’t mean to do it. It only happened because Nellie was forced to play Randolph due to Wright getting injured.
If we already had a solid starting PF that didn’t get injured, maybe someone like Drew Gooden, Rasheed Wallace, Kenyon Martin etc. Brandan Wright would have been the backup to those players, and Nellie would have never played Randolph. Anthony would have ended up staying on the bench or getting traded like Biedrins almost was.
Okay I got a little off topic. This is supposed to be about MW. But I just wanted to point out that I don’t think it was Nellie who’s responsible for “training” Randolph into being a great player. Nellie just accidentally did it.
by Precise Films Productions on Jul 13, 2009 2:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow, I have to completely and utterly disagree with everything you just said. How a player plays in practice, especially for an unproven player, absolutely determines the number of minutes they play in the game. Nelson’s job is to win games. His job is not to audition players in a setting that could cause the team to lose so the fans can see them play. That’s just absurd, and if our organization WAS run that way (well I wouldn’t be that surprised given how dysfunctional the Warriors are/have been)…I don’t even know what I would say. That idea is laughable.
Good players will be good in practice. Bad players will be bad in practice. It’s a pretty basic concept. There will be exceptions of course (Allen Iverson), but those exceptions are good players who aren’t putting the effort in to practice they do in the games. Nellie also had every reason to bench Randolph – Randolph wasn’t working hard enough in practice. And what happened in those minutes he did get initially? He wasn’t good. Once he realized how hard he had to work to earn his minutes, that hard work started paying off and Randolph started improving, and it showed on the court when he earned minutes.
You essentially want to create an atmosphere where practice is meaningless, to let the fans judge players they haven’t seen. You’re taking away the incentive for players to practice hard – which means they won’t improve as much and we’ll be left with an even worse team. It’s a terrible idea. Practice is important, and everyone knows it, which is why someone like Don Nelson (he knows a thing or two about basketball) lets practice influence playing time.
by Missing Barry on Jul 13, 2009 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 7 recs
Rec.
Wow, I have to completely and utterly agree with everything you just said. ;-)
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 13, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Michael Jordan busted his ass in practice and expected his teammates to follow suit.
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Jul 13, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
woah, you missed my point!
hehe, don’t get me wrong. I never meant to say that practice wasn’t important.
I take back what I meant about the whole practice thing. I didn’t get my point across and ended up having my post be misunderstood. But this is what I meant about the whole Randolph/Nellie situation…
My point was that I don’t think Nellie ever thought Anthony Randolph was all that great in the first place. I don’t think he had a special plan in mind where he was thinking “Oh, i’ll bench him and inspire him to become great”. I don’t think Nellie’s the type to do that type of coaching, he fricken traded away a young Chris Webber over arguments with what position he’s gonna play.
We thought he was crazy for wanting to trade Randolph (Well it wasn’t proven whether or not he really wanted him traded), and some of us were complaining at the fact that he wasn’t playing Randolph a lot.
My main point is that I think that the whole emergence of Anthony Randolph only happened because Brandan Wright got injured, not because Nellie “liked what he saw from Randolph in practice and knew it was finally time to unleash the beast”. If Brandan Wright never got injured with the dislocated shoulder, then I bet Nellie would have kept Randolph on the bench for the rest of the season and probably would have included him in trade packages to offer for guys like Stoudemire/Bosh/Boozer etc. In that case, it wouldn’t matter how much Randolph practiced because Nellie would have still played Wright instead, but ended up playing Randolph since Wright was injured. When Randolph finally got the opportunity to play, he proved Nellie wrong and showed him how good he really is.
So i’m not typing this as an argument towards you, i’m not revolving this topic on team practices. I’m just saying that I think Anthony Randolph becoming better was due to getting more playing time because of Brandan Wright going down, and it ended up making Nellie look like a genius because it looks like he benched Randolph knowing that he would work hard and eventually become a future all-star.
If Nellie did bench him with a plan in mind, then i’m not gonna say that’s bad. If Nellie really thought of the idea to sit Randolph until he’s ready, then that’s a good coach right there. I’m just saying that I think Nellie never believed in him in the first place, wanted to get rid of him, but was shocked when he saw how good Randolph really was and is taking credit for planning it out like that when the only reason why he played Anthony is because Wright got injured. Other than that, I completely agree with you about the whole practice thing, I too think that practice is very important. I never meant to make my post about practice, my main point was about Nellie not believing in Randolph.
So it’s either…
- Nellie benched Anthony Randolph with a genius plan in mind to piss him off and inspire him to become humble and learn how to work for his minutes. Anthony Randolph has never really been coached in High School and College, he was always the man doing what he wants; Nellie thought it was finally time to teach Randolph what it’s like to be coached, and that he’s gonna have to put in work to be on the court. This motivated Anthony Randolph to work extremely hard in the gym and showcase how good he really is, there was no time to slack since Anthony had to prove himself worthy of being in the rotation. In the end, Anthony’s hard work finally payed off, as he showed his skills in practice and enlightened Nellie to the point where he felt comfortable with giving him more playing time. On the NBA court, Randolph played like the player that Nellie knew he would be, it’s just that Nellie knew that it would take time to get that kind of effort out of Randolph. Now Anthony is more humble, and was taught a lesson about how important it is to strive hard in the NBA. He could end up being an NBA All-Star, maybe even a Hall of Famer; whatever success he becomes, he’ll know that he can thank Don Nelson for teaching him how to work hard. It’s a lesson that every NBA rookie should face.
or
- Nellie was disappointed in Randolph from what he saw in him during team practices. Randolph would get owned by Rob Kurz during scrimmages, and everytime Nellie put Randolph in an NBA game he would be too wild and couldn’t keep up. Nellie realized that Randolph isn’t the player he thought he was, and was tired of Randolph’s attitude. He was ready to trade Randolph to help bring in an impact player, and decided to play Brandan Wright ahead of him. He liked Brandan Wright, but when he went down with a shoulder injury he had to play Randolph due to the need to replace Wright’s size and length. To his surprise, Nellie witnessed how good Randolph really was, and ended up being happy that Brandan Wright went down with an injury.
So yeah, I never meant to say anything about practice being meaningless or whatever. That was never my point. You just didn’t comprehend my post, which is my fault because I didn’t thoroughly explain my opinion which threw a lot of people off.
by Precise Films Productions on Jul 13, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And how this relates to Marcus Williams.
If it’s true that Nellie never believed in Randolph, then Anthony could have ended up being shipped out of Golden State just like Marcus Williams was.
The difference is that Anthony was lucky to get a chance to prove himself on the NBA court, whereas Marcus Williams only played little stints of minutes. Who knows, had all of our other point guards got injured Williams would have finally had the chance to play and probably could have surprised Nellie like Anthony surprised him.
I just meant that it’s either Anthony surprised Nellie, or that Nellie knew Anthony was great all along. If Nellie knew that Marcus Williams sucked, then no we didn’t miss out. But if Marcus Williams was good, but Nellie was just too blind to see it in order to let him play, then yes we missed out.
by Precise Films Productions on Jul 13, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was really more focused on the “Marcus never got a chance in the game” part of the post than the Randolph part. A guy like Williams has to earn his minutes, and he clearly never did, and I’m not sorry to see him gone. I don’t expect him to ever see any NBA success, and a little bit of summer league success doesn’t change my view of him one bit. :)
As for Randolph, based on what I’ve read I’m assuming Nellie knew what Randolph could be but didn’t think Randolph was ready/working hard enough, but that’s all speculation on my end so….yeah. The one piece of factual evidence I have to provide is the fact that Randolph was not very good when he did get minutes early in the season – once his practice play improved so did his in game play (and he started getting minutes).
by Missing Barry on Jul 14, 2009 6:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think Nellie’s the type to do that type of coaching, he fricken traded away a young Chris Webber over arguments with what position he’s gonna play.
You misspelled “he traded away a young Chris Webber over arguments about money.”
by jae on Jul 13, 2009 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean, can the fans at least see for themselves how the players do on the court in the actual NBA game
this presumes that fans somehow know more than coaches. most fans couldn’t tell you the difference between a pin down vs a drag or even whether a PG ran a set correctly.
in regards to the rest, i’m going to assume you’re pretty young and that someday you’re going to see the absurdity of it.
by homer simpson on Jul 13, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That wasn't my point.
And age has nothing to do about it.
by Precise Films Productions on Jul 13, 2009 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wasn’t arguing your point, i was pointing out how ridiculous that one statement was.
I mean, can the fans at least see for themselves how the players do on the court in the actual NBA game.hey, we all say stupid things once in awhile.
your point with Randolph is off. Randolph’s problem was he wasn’t working hard to learn the NBA game and it showed on the court. He was wasting his energy running around like a chicken on the court. Hence, Rob “the Randolph motivator” Kurz. Kurz served his purpose and was not retained. Marcus Williams problem was that he was worse than CJ Watson, Marco Belinelli, Jamal Crawford etc. Randolph was never worse than Kurz, he just didn’t understand the game, thought he knew it all and had to be set straight.
by homer simpson on Jul 14, 2009 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not playing Randolph at the beginning of the year was the best thing that could’ve happened for AR. In the few minutes he got on the court, he was inefficient, often out of control, and generally was a HUGE negative on the floor. By not playing him until his attitude AND his game improved, Nellie made it clear that talent alone wasn’t going to earn him minutes; he had to put in the work, learn the offense, and stop getting dominated by Rob Kurz.
by rjnarayen on Jul 13, 2009 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PRACTICE
We’re sitting here, and I’m supposed to be the franchise player, and we’re talking about practice. I mean listen, we’re sitting here talking about practice, not a game, not a game, not a game, but we’re talking about practice. Not the game that I go out there and die for and play every game last it’s my last but we’re talking about practice man. How silly is that?
Now I know that I’m supposed to lead by example and all that but I’m not shoving that aside like it don’t mean anything. I know it’s important, I honestly do but we’re talking about practice. We’re talking about practice man. (laughter from the media crowd) We’re talking about practice. We’re talking about practice. We’re not talking about the game. We’re talking about practice. When you come to the arena, and you see me play, you’ve seen me play right, you’ve seen me give everything I’ve got, but we’re talking about practice right now.
by blank11 on Jul 13, 2009 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hold up, where A.I at?
He is should in this discussion. And we are only talking about practice. lol
by warriorfan4life on Jul 14, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at Belinelli
Dude went apesh*t in the LV Summer League year before last, but he rode more wood than Jenna Jamison in ‘07-08. Probably for a good reason. I won’t lose any sleep on Marcus getting 17 assist’s and wondering why Nellie never played him.
by gabezgsw on Jul 13, 2009 3:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
summer league webcast
Is my computer the only one that freezes and starts and freeze again like every few seconds and if anyone knows how to fix this I would greatly appreciate it.
by realtalk on Jul 13, 2009 3:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Me too! What gives I don’t even want to watch it. How do you get it to be smooth watching it. I paid the 14.95 for that?
by crab dribble cocktail on Jul 13, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sucks
it was free last year and it played better, guess its on their end does make it hard to watch where’s my refund
by realtalk on Jul 13, 2009 5:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
what browser / media player are you using? might want to check your buffer rates.
by homer simpson on Jul 14, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marcus Williams is a great passer. He did backup Kidd in New Jersey, so that shouldn’t be a surprise.
Ellis to the RIM!
Monta for the win?! YES!
by XIAOXIAO on Jul 13, 2009 9:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh man
I’m going to be so pissed if M. Williams becomes one of the top point guards in the leauge. He honestly has the potential(remember he was labeled as the purest pg in his draft). But the guy is chubby. that’s the only problem, he needs to get into shape. That’s why Nellie wasn’t leting him play.
by GSWeri on Jul 13, 2009 10:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i want brandon jennings
over curry right now, can we make a trade?
by farid on Jul 13, 2009 11:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
NO!!!!!
Jennings might look sick in highlights, but I’d take Curry over him any day of the week. The kid’s range starts as soon as he steps off the bus. I think he’s the shooter we all had hoped Monta Ellis would develop into (I don’t think he’ll every have as much range as Curry, but he’s getting better from downtown).
Also, Curry complements Ellis’ game in that he can draw defenders up top or to the wing opening up driving lanes for Monta. I see Jennings as move of slasher… a drive and kick type PG with explosive speed. You know I guy like TJ Ford. I don’t think that would complement Ellis at all and getting Jennings would probably have signaled the end of the Ellis PG experiment. I’m not sure how they’d work Ellis into the offense. Would be a free-for-all type offense that Baron Davis ran? Would we run more sets? I really have no idea. But with Curry I can see them running a lot more set plays. Hell they can even have Jackson run the point with Curry and Ellis on the wings and we’d still have a several dangerous options. With Jennings I see a guy that needs the ball in his hands to be effective and I just don’t see that work for this Warriors team.
A Sonics fan without a team... but 6 season now of GS Warriors ticket have convinced me to adopt the boys from Oakland.
by mcwalter44 on Jul 14, 2009 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i like Jennings’ game a lot, but (as long as his shooting by year 3 or 4 eventually gets close to 50/40/90) Curry’s probably the better fit.
hopefully, they’ll eventually be able to do things like isolate Randolph up top with Curry & Morrow on the wings ready to shoot the short corner 3’s when the defense collapses. and the threat of Curry’s jumper will provide better floor spacing for all our over dribblers.
also think Brandon is in a good situation with Skiles over in Milwaukee. He probably doesn’t have the self-discipline to play in Nelson or D’Antoni’s system. He needs something strict and rigid to keep him from playing recklessly and out of control.
by homer simpson on Jul 14, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
“they’ll eventually be able to do things like isolate Randolph”
Iso’s are rarely a “better thing”, despite the misconceptions many fans have about the NBA. Isolation’s lead to bad shots.
by Missing Barry on Jul 14, 2009 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don’t consider a wide open corner 3 for Morrow or Curry a bad shot – the only potential problem to the above is Randolph’s ability to pass. if you’d like you can switch it to pick & roll with Andris & Monta with Morrow & Curry on opposite corners.
Iso’s are rarely a "better thing"
i never actually said that, but that depends who the player is. isos for Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Joe John, Ginobili, Dirk, Melo, Pierce, VC etc all work fine. and a post up is basically the big man’s version of an iso and those work fine as well. it’s not the prettier basketball, but it can be equally effective.
by homer simpson on Jul 14, 2009 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just like to point out that Iso’s are generally a bad thing, since a lot of people out there have the notion that’s all that goes on in the NBA. Of course the best players in the league, if they get an Iso in a good spot on the floor, can create good shots, and a guy with post skills in an Iso is always a good thing (given how high a % post guys shoot). I just don’t see an Iso for Randolph at the top of the key ever being a good thing. Maybe he creates a good shot for Curry every once in a while, but I believe overall we’d have (as a team) a poor TS% in those situations.
Kobe shoots a terrible percentage in end of game/end of quarter situations. Everyone talks about how “clutch” he is because they remember the makes but not the misses. What’s the point of this statement? Well, if you watch them play, what happens in those situations? Kobe waives off the pick and goes 1 on 1 at the top of the key, and it results in bad shots. :)
by Missing Barry on Jul 15, 2009 7:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was there
I saw him, and i ate every bad word ever thrown at him. I dont get it, THATS the Marcus Williams I thought we were getting last summer. For whatever reason, whenever he got on the court he stunk it up.
Was it just 1 game? That remains to be seen, but man he was on FIRE. I dont know how it looked on TV, but live, he was the man.
by sjboy on Jul 14, 2009 9:01 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
o'bryant had a good game too
vs. Det, once upon a time, which was a little higher level of competition. physical skills enabled these guys to get drafted in the first round—can they bring focus and discipline on a consistent basis? they established histories indicating they can’t.
by the.monk on Jul 14, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
asdf
When it comes down to it, whether he sucked in practice or not, he should have been given the chance to prove himself on the court in extended minutes. We gave up a 1st round pick for him and whether he was good or not we should have at least gave him a run to see if he was actually worth anything because what we gave up was ridiculous for our return.
If he wasn’t that good to begin with, whoever decided to give the go ahead for the trade should be immediately let go because that is a gross over-estimation of talent.
by JRich4MVP on Jul 14, 2009 3:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If he wasn’t that good to begin with, whoever decided to give the go ahead for the trade should be immediately let go because that is a gross over-estimation of talent.
Mullin?
by homer simpson on Jul 14, 2009 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because we gave up a 1st rounder for him doesn’t mean he deserves a shot for minutes. We made a bad evaluation of him. Minutes are earned in practice, they’re not given out to privilegd players that don’t deserve them. If Marcus Williams was a good basketball player he’d play well in practice and it wouldn’t be an issue. It was an issue because he is not a good basketball player.
by Missing Barry on Jul 14, 2009 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
asdf
I can understand where you’re coming from that just because we gave up a 1st rounder doesn’t mean he deserves playing time, but we were going no where fast, last year basically at any point after the all star break would have been a good time to give Williams an extended look in real game time. I can see if the Dubs had even the slightest hope of making the playoffs making him ride the pine but we had 0 chance. I would have rather seen if we could possibly develop him into even a back up PG instead of playing Watson all those minutes last year.
by JRich4MVP on Jul 15, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At that point, it was irrelevant to see what we had. Williams was an expiring contract and we did not have any special rights to keep him. Once they decided not to exercise the option on his contract for a 4th year before the season started, it was all but a given that he would not return. If he played well, he’d price himself out of us being able to keep him. He wasn’t going to be a solution as even a backup point guard at that point. The contract situation that he ate himself into pretty much assured that, regardless of how he did in completely undeserved playing time.
The chance for him to be a contributor was long past at the point the season started. The decision to give him time was mostly moot after the preseason, where he was so underwhelming that they didn’t feel a rather cheap by NBA standards 4th year of a rookie deal would be anything but a waste of money.
by jae on Jul 15, 2009 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unlike jae, I think seeing what you have is a potentially reasonable situation, so I see where you’re coming from. I’m going to assume at that point Williams had pretty much convinced everyone he wasn’t able to contribute anything at all, which is why he didn’t get a shot. I don’t see a problem with it even if it is an expiring contract, maybe you find out he’s someone you want to try to resign as an affordable backup.
by Missing Barry on Jul 15, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The issue isn’t that they shouldn’t have tried to figure out what they had. The issue is that at the point “JRich4MVP” is suggesting they should have put him in more, it was too late. If he had worked out, so what? He was out the door anyhow as we had already declined the option on his next year’s contract. That decision was one that rules required them to make before the season started, so the only thing that they had to go on was his performance in practice and the preseason. After declining it, he was going to be an unrestricted free agent and we wouldn’t have any special rights to re-sign him vis a vis the cap or match offers or anything. To keep him at that point we’d have to either a) get him to accept a vet minimum or b) use the MLE. If he was worth keeping, he wasn’t going to stay at the vet minimum, which means using the MLE. Frankly, giving a guy burn essentially because he was a sunk cost, for the off-hand chance that he’s worthy of allowing us to use another asset (and the MLE is an asset) to keep strikes me as poor management practice. “Hey, guys, we’ll play you because otherwise, we’re admitting we made a mistake! Yeah it’s a double standard, but a double standard is more important than no standards at all. It’s important to have standards.”
Let’s not pretend that the coaching staff couldn’t get a good idea of what he could do and how he fit into the scheme of things. They knew he wasn’t in good shape. They could see what he could and couldn’t do in practice. The call to toss someone in so we’d know what we had is really a call to toss someone in so that fans who don’t see him in practice, who don’t have to deal with him daily get a chance to make the call for themselves. Fans as a lot tend to overvalue the unknown. “He could have worked out. We don’t know!” For certain, we don’t. But in probability, we do know.
by jae on Jul 15, 2009 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
“The call to toss someone in so we’d know what we had is really a call to toss someone in so that fans who don’t see him in practice, who don’t have to deal with him daily get a chance to make the call for themselves.”
Yeah, I more or less gave the same opinion earlier. PT is earned in practice. Once we weren’t a playoff team, I’m just saying I’d shift more PT to younger guys and less to veterans to give them experience, see how they improve and what we have and such, and I don’t see a problem including Williams on that list (assuming he’s doing enough to earn some PT). I wouldn’t care that he’s an UFA, I’m sure there’s some scenario possible that we get him back for a good value. It’s not like it would have been at the expense of someone else we had long term, anyways. CJ Watson? Eh, who cares, he’s some sort of FA anyways.
by Missing Barry on Jul 15, 2009 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW, in the first two preseason games Nellie started Williams once and had him come in as the first sub in the other. In neither game did he do anything to warrant that much playing time.
He was out of shape and in no condition to run. That’s obvious in practice. Yes, it was too much to give up for him in hindsight, but once the deal was made, it’s a sunk cost. Forcing playing time so that fans can also see it was a mistake (and that’s what this really comes down to) won’t change this.
by jae on Jul 14, 2009 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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