Next Move Should Be...Nothing?
by w00143881 on Jul 3, 2009 2:42 PM PDT
49 comments
There have been on going rumors and debate on what the Warriors should do in the off-season to make them better. However, I believe, the Warriors are set for next season. After all, even after we acquire a MLE, our core group of players seem to be set and to be honest, I think we look damn good. We have already made drastic improvements since last season:
1) With an exception of Mags getting wrist surgery, everyone is healthy. I don’t think we could have said that even once last season.
2) Randolph & Morrow have been working out non-stop and will be involved in summer league. I expect to see both of them play bigger roles next season. Curry will be joining them as well.
3) Monta Ellis has (to my knowledge) fully recovered from his moped injury. Furthermore, being a young team, every year that passes, our players mature: Includes Monta, Beans, Randolph, Morrow, Azu, Wright, Watson, and Marco. I’m confident that even Turiaf who is 26 has matured. These players are all under 25 and haven’t reached their bodies potential nor their mental potential; now they are a year closer.
4) We’ve drafted Curry. In doing so, I’m hoping it takes off the need for Jackson to shoot as much. He is a great player, however, not the best shooter. If Jackson could focus more on defense, distribution and rebounding I think our team would benefit.
5) The ridiculous number of PG, SG, SF swingmen we now have creates a competitive atmosphere for the players. We’ve cut Kurz, whose spot is being replaced with more competitive player. This competition I think will push players to play better every night as they will fight for playing time (and a job)
6) We have gotten rid of Crawford who I think of a selfish, poor shooting scorer who took good (better) opportunities away from other players.
7) We’ve gotten rid of our GM Mullin, who many believed lost his touch and his authority over the team.
I would like to see the Warriors move into the season with this core group. I honestly do not believe we need to trade of Amare or Bosh or fight to find a “true” PG. Sure, our team would be better if we had a LeBron or a Kobe or a Wade, but do we NEED it? I would rather see us win with our guys, not see us win b/c we traded for someone who doesn’t even want to be here and who will most likely leave given the first chance, ruining our team for years to come due to the talent we had to trade for him. Furthermore, Suns and Rockets seem to be going nowhere fast and I question their playoff capabilities.
Remember, we won 48 games two seasons ago. Even though we blew it last season, I would honestly say it was because of injuries. I would even argue we are a better team now than we were with Baron. Our guys have matured and have grown as players. Even players who usually wouldn't get much playing time had the month of april to get big minutes due to Nellie's starter-benching method and they were still able to put up some pretty good numbers. In the month of april, I was particularly impressed with (Points/Assists/Rebounds):
CJ WATSON: 17.5 / 5.4 / 4.1
MORROW: 16.9 / 2.5 / 4.9
RANDOLPH: 15.1 / 1.6 / 10.6
BUIKE: 20.8 / 2.1 / 6.8
Should we continue to trade? Are you happy with our guys now? Do you believe we can win with our current line up? Thoughts?
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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No more trade talk please
I just want to see what our current player can do.
It is the shoes!!!
by LighTz707OuT on Jul 3, 2009 2:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
not confident enough with the role players i like the back up but there is 1 piece were missing to be a good contender like lakers
id like to trade bwright and watson.. watson might not be tha same may be this is his only breakout season then back to the bench… ??? while he’s good we shuld trade him for someone like a SF SEAN MARION TYPE OR ARIZA.. they are good in defense and can run the breaks easily… they are what we need..
by thekiddisfresh on Jul 3, 2009 3:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
starting
- 30 STEPHEN CURRY
- 8 MONTA ELLIS
- 1 STEPHEN JACKSON
- 4 ANTHONY RANDOLPH
- 15 ANDRIS BIEDRINS
by thekiddisfresh on Jul 3, 2009 3:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Eventually that could be the lineup
but to start the season I see 2 possibilities
Monta
Jack
Buike
AR
AB
or
Monta
A-Mo
Jack
AR
AB
Depending on what Marco and BWright do in camp this year we could see them crack the starting 5. Curry will get a lot of playing time, but he won’t start. To me the only people who are for sure starters are Monta, Jack, and Dre, like you said the other open spots will create a nice, healthy, competition for our boys. I’m stoked for next year.
by myk on Jul 3, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't agree with your Crawford statement.
He is just that kind of player,since everyone was injured in the early part of the season,he was forced to create and take bad shots for himself.
He just did what every other player would do if you had to be the go-to guy.
Its time for a change...
by RunNdGun on Jul 3, 2009 3:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
so… what part of the statement do you disagree with? That he is a poor shooter? 40% career fg percentage pretty much sums that up. That he took better opportunities away from other players? When he had the lowest fg % on our team, I don’t really see how you can argue that.
The only thing you can legitimately argue is that he isn’t selfish in nature. Although, I think we are getting a little too caught up on the word “selfish”. Is a volume shooter “selfish” because he takes the most shots on a team? You could argue that he just wants to give his team the best chance to win I suppose. However, even though I don’t think of Crawford as being a “selfish” player, taking that many scoring opportunities away from his teammates all (3/4) season long could certainly be seen as selfish.
by randolphforpresident on Jul 3, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I voted to keep the team
but I would L-O-V-E to see Amare on the Warriors as long as
A) We get him for no more than Biens, Wright and Marco.
B) We re-write his contract.
Amare to the Bay would be freakin awesome, but if we don’t get him it’s all good. Our team is solid right now regardless.
by VERY VERY BUSY on Jul 3, 2009 3:30 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Being that Amar’e doesn’t want to play center and he thinks we’d be giving up too much to be a great team with him(Biedrins), it’s not happening.
by myk on Jul 3, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW
where did you read that Amare doesn’t want to play the 5?
by VERY VERY BUSY on Jul 3, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
AMare's best years was at the 5
Sometimes players dont know whats best for them, just like Mr. Ellis.
Dwight Howard also wanted to score more. He shut up, listened to his coach, and went to the finals.
by sjboy on Jul 4, 2009 2:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, when he was younger an healthier
Amar’e probably realizes that his body can’t take the strain of playing center like it used to. He is starting to really go to his jumpshot as well, it makes sense that he would want to be a PF now.
by myk on Jul 4, 2009 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Either way I'm fine.
The Italian, Latvian, French connection would be is going to be a blast this year then!
by VERY VERY BUSY on Jul 3, 2009 3:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
well
randolph was born in germany…. and wasn’t buike born in england?
by diablo21911 on Jul 4, 2009 2:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
we're not good enough
as is right now to make the playoffs i don’t think, so i’d like to see a move that could help us move in that direction. i don’t have a clue what that could be tho
by AJC3317 on Jul 3, 2009 4:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
That’s why I’d like to see Amare in Oakland, but besides that I don’t really see anything else out there that could help us. Bosh? Yeah he’s an all-star, but I’d rather just keep what we have.
by VERY VERY BUSY on Jul 3, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
lets let our young guys grow and develop together while saving up money. If we can be competitive this year which we most likely will and have better health we will be in the race for the playoffs. Then we may be able to sign Chris Bosh or Amare next summer in the off season. But if not we will have cap space and have a green and growing team going forward. I’m excited about watching this team develop and maximise there potential. If our young guys develop we could have something very special in a 2-3 years. Go Warriors
by GSW9 on Jul 3, 2009 7:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Leon Powe, Paul Millsap, Shawn Marion,
Not sure about Millsap but I know Powe and Marion are available for the MLE. I say bring Powe back to the bay. Great kid, local, coming off surgery but when healthy, a beast. He could backup Randolph and challenge Wright to become a stronger player. Wright will start the season as the backup PF if we pickup Powe, but when Leon gets back into shape he will overtake Wright, who simply can’t bang with Leon.
Shawn Marion would be exciting, I’d be fine with him too.
I say keep our current roster and just add one more piece to the puzzle at the “4” to solidify our bench.
Start the season like this:
1) Monta 1a) Curry/Watson
2) Morrow 2a) Buike/Belinelli
3) Jack 3a) Maggs/Buike
4) Randolph 4a) Wright(Powe when healthy as backup)
5) Beans 5a) Turiaf
11-Law
12-Davidson
I think as the season progesses, barring injuries, Monta will play more two alongside Curry at the 1, Buike at the 3, Randolph at the 4, Turiaf at the 5.
I think the Anthony’s will be solid starters, posting good numbers consistently.
I think Monta will be explosive and an improved passer.
I HOPE HOPE HOPE HOPE that the skinny lefties bulk up. Beans, Wright and Randolph are all 6’10, 6’11, but are BEANPOLES. Randolph should eventually settle into a weight around 230, and have a Kevin Garnett body and be a 3 and a 4. Wright………not sure if he will be able to toughen up his game and get physical….I hope so with that eagle wingspan. Biedrins……for the love of God, don’t pop out so high defending the pick and roll? How many times will you get pushed around by 4’s and 5’s? How many stupid ticky tack fouls? Get your money’s worth, get more physical, take charge of the paint.
I think when the playoffs approach, having a rotation of Ellis/Morrow/Jack/AR/AB/Powe/Maggs/Buike/Curry/Beli/Watson/Turiaf/Wright will really pay dividends. That’s 13 deep!!
Keep what we have and let’s see how it plays out.
#28 D-MO
by D-Mo Gaucho on Jul 4, 2009 1:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Powe shouldnt get the full MLE
Millsap will likely get a lot more than MLE money
Marion will probably go to a good team for MLE money or a team like Portland, Memphis or OKC for a little more.
Law and Davidson are listed as your 11th and 12th men when you’ve got 13 guys already in your rotation…I’m interested to see how you would distribute minutes to those 13 anyway.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 1:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
13 deep? potential? wait it out?
sorry im just tired of hearing these things.
And dude did you just say this team is better then when baron was here lol give me a break man
Baron was the only “star” and he made this team go. He fueled this teams fast break perfectly. In no possible way is this statement true.
Oh and there is only 1 ball to be played with. Ellis, Jack and Buike are all chuckers. Id say they should start Marco. Good shooter, average ball handler/play maker, not too mention our best perimeter defender.
Start him….im not sayin he should get starter minutes but i say start him.
by CSalMJS on Jul 4, 2009 3:30 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
ah yes Marco and his dazzling 3.5 assists per 36 minutes will make a fantastic point guard. great ast/to ratio too.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 1:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
our line up is thin
weight wise. the beefiest of the bunch is going to be randolph and he’s considered too thin for the 4 (though he plays it well).
i agree with the sentiment to keep our lineup and see what it does healthy – but, it’s obvious we need “beef” as riley says. how many times do we get the 4th quarter and our guys get pushed around the block and can’t grab a D-rebound!?!? W’s would have won about 10 more games last year if they could grab ONE rebound in the last minute of play. Always getting out-muscled – never outhustled.
Powe would be a GREAT pick up, but i don’t think he’ll command the MLE. Could probably get him for 3/4 mill a year – hopefully enough to keep boston from Matching.
Or a sign and trade – Powe for Watson or Wright. BTW – don’t tell me Wright’s more valuable than that…how many GM’s are actually clamoring for Wright? zero – he’s never going to be more than a decent bench player.
by joegiant on Jul 4, 2009 4:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The biggest problem with the roster is an overabundance of depth. If you assume Monta, Jack, Maggette, Randolph and Biedrins will get an average of 32 minutes a game, that leaves a total of 80 minutes for Turiaf, Wright, Azubuike, Morrow, Curry, CJ and Belinelli. Even if you factor in injuries, even if you assume we let CJ walk (a potential mistake in my opinion), a couple useful players will be wasting away at the end of the bench at any given time. That’s not an optimal use of resources.
The type of move that would help us is one of the hardest kinds of trades to pull off in the NBA: turning multiple pieces into a single guy. The Amar’e trade looked like a good fit in that sense: it would’ve allowed us to shorten the bench a bit and upgrade a position at the same time. That trade looks dead, and that’s not the worst thing in the world by any means, but we could really use another move like that, for Kirilenko or Bosh or somebody.
Having twelve decent players is not ideal. It means you’re wasting and frustrating some people.
by onlxn on Jul 4, 2009 10:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Turiaf, Wright, Azubuike, Morrow, Curry, CJ and Belinelli.
80 minutes for those guys? No problem.
I mean, Turiaf has clearly earned 20-30. That’s fair. Call it 25.
55 minutes left.
Wright hasn’t earned more than 10. Until he shows consistent effort, he never will.
45 minutes left.
Buike is really not all that. He’s a replacement-level player. I love his energy and hustle, but he shouldn’t be playing SF. He and Morrow split the time Jackson isn’t playing at 2-guard, that’s what they’ve earned. That’s 16 minutes.
29 minutes left.
Curry’s a rookie, he’s going to have to prove he belongs in the NBA, much less that he deserves consistent time. Let’s assume that he can play point, and starts at 15min a game.
14 minutes left.
That leaves Law, CJ, or Belli getting 14 minutes a game to start the season, hopefully gradually losing that time to Curry. Honestly, none of those guys have earned more than that.
And that’s no injuries.
No, apportioning minutes isn’t the problem. The problem is that a lot of the lineups that leaves us with are too small to rebound effectively. In particular, we’re often playing Jackson or Buike at the 3, where they’re bad players. Also not clear is if we have a real distributor.
We don’t really have all this great depth. CJ, Belli, and Wright haven’t proven a thing at the NBA level. Buike should be backup 2-guard on a good team. Morrow is a situational shooter, at best right now. I think people praising our depth are being a little optimistic about what our bench is actually capable of.
by Ronaldinho on Jul 4, 2009 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buike is really not all that. He’s a replacement-level player. I love his energy and hustle, but he shouldn’t be playing SF. He and Morrow split the time Jackson isn’t playing at 2-guard, that’s what they’ve earned. That’s 16 minutes.
Replacement level? Do you mean league-average? Because I don’t see Azubuike as a replacement level player. Probably somewhere in-between.
Thing C
by markdash on Jul 4, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ronny will only play 15-20 tops
the rest will go to AB and BW. 48 mins a game at 2 positions is 96 mins divided amongst 4 players. I see the frontcourt minutes working like this:
AB 30 AR 25 Ronny 20 BWright 20 there’s stil an extra minute as well. You could also see AB get 35 mins and Ronny only 15. I think AR and BW will see relatively equal time on the court.
The PG SG and SF minutes will be something like this. 144 mins divided amongst 3 positions.
Monta 40 Jack 35 Maggette 28 Buike 25 Curry 9 Morrow 7. That’s probably what Nellie has in mind. Maybe Jack and Maggette play more. With Morrow taking minutes from Buike.
I think it would be better for the team if no one played more than 35 mins.
Monta 35 Jack 35 Maggette 27 Buike 22 that’s 119 mins with 25 minutes left to split amongst Morrow, Marco, and Steph. If one of them is hot or is playing super well they could take minutes away from Monta, Jack, Cory and Buke. I think this allows all the talent to play, and it cures our problem of playing our main guys big mins, which was ultimately detrimental to their health.
With the exception of Corey, we don’t really have an injury prone team. Jack is obviously not capable of playing 40 mins a night without wearing down, nor do I think he should play that much. Monta’s ankle is probably not 100%, AB also sat out for a number of games in his first season playing heavy mins. We have a lot of depth and we should use it to our advantage to ensure long term health for the squad.
by myk on Jul 4, 2009 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean, Turiaf has clearly earned 20-30. That’s fair. Call it 25.
25’s about right… he fouls too much to play more than that on a consistent basis.
Wright hasn’t earned more than 10.
Simply wrong. Wright has consistently played well. His defense hasn’t been consistent, but it hasn’t been terrible either, and his offense has been very, very, very good. If you “earn” playing time by playing well, Wright has “earned” playing time… ideally he’d get at least 25 minutes a night.
Buike is really not all that. He’s a replacement-level player. I love his energy and hustle, but he shouldn’t be playing SF. He and Morrow split the time Jackson isn’t playing at 2-guard, that’s what they’ve earned. That’s 16 minutes.
So you look at the NBA’s best three-point shooter and the NBA’s fourth-best three-pointer — two young, good-attitude guys who rebound their position credibly and don’t defend any worse than most of their teammates — and you think they deserve no more than eight minutes a game on a crappy team? You really wanna stand by that?
These are genuinely useful players. We sucked last year because of Stephen Jackson, Jamal Crawford, injuries, stupid lineups, listless defense and a host of other reasons… guys like Azubuike and Morrow were not the problem. They played well and added value. I’m not suggesting that either has to start, but they should get consistent minutes.
Curry’s a rookie, he’s going to have to prove he belongs in the NBA, much less that he deserves consistent time. Let’s assume that he can play point, and starts at 15min a game.
Sure. Nothing wrong with easing in a rookie.
That leaves Law, CJ, or Belli getting 14 minutes a game to start the season, hopefully gradually losing that time to Curry. Honestly, none of those guys have earned more than that.
Law hasn’t and Marco arguably hasn’t… I’m still not really a Marco believer. But CJ is a decent player, a better backup point guard than most in the league. His defensive weaknesses are enough to put him below starter-level, but he’s become a very productive offensive player. He merits more than eleventh-man minutes.
In the same way that a bad team can’t afford to miss opportunities to increase its talent level, a bad team can’t afford to misevaluate the talent it has on hand. Wright, Azubuike, Morrow and CJ all bring genuinely good things to the table. If the team undervalues these players as much as you do, it’ll be hurting itself.
by onlxn on Jul 4, 2009 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
You may be stretching Wright’s offense a little bit (very x3) but other than that I agree with you. Last season showed what all of our players can do and can’t do, so I think you play them according to matchups (Morrow vs. Clippers, Watson vs. Jazz) and obviously injuries (don’t tell me we’ll be healthy all season).
by Captain Jack on Jul 5, 2009 12:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you about needing to evaluate the players correctly, but by your measurements we need to play about 3 overtimes every night to get guys the number of minutes they “deserve” or would ideally get. I don’t really disagree there, but I think its pretty obvious that the solution has to be a trade to thin out the roster a little otherwise evaluating our own talent becomes a much more difficult task
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 1:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, that’s exactly what I’m saying. We need a trade to thin the herd a little… without that, it’s gonna be a bit of a mess.
by onlxn on Jul 5, 2009 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buike/Watson could play on any team in the league
I agree that having a bench that goes 13 deep is not at all advantageous. But, injuries always seem to happen, so I’m saying it’s nice to go into training camp with alot of depth. It creates good competition, and we all know 2 or 3 people will get hurt, opening up the door for others.
Buike is MUCH more than a replacement player. He’s an excellent backup 2. Nellie plays him out of position (*like everyone else) at the 3, but he has above average athleticism, great demeanor, hustles, hits his shots. rebounds, finishes, and defends. What more do you want from a 6’4" undrafted player? Geees, we’re being hard on the guy. When he plays, he produces. 4th in the league in 3 point shooting. Averages 20 points a game when he gets decent minutes. SO….get off his back. He’s earned minutes.
CJ Watson. We should not be letting him go. Get rid of Law, I don’t care. Teams and GM’s know that Watson is a rising player. Check the last couple weeks of last season. Dude can play. Like Buike, he’s solid. Hits his shots, great demeanor, smart, and improving. He’s earned his minutes as well. He is more of a point than Ellis is, and provides excellent minutes off the bench. If we don’t pay him, someone will.
Our guard play is FINE. Marco procudes when he gets minutes. Morrow is the best shooter in the league and has the intangibles to be a great player. Ellis has superior talent, but needs to work on his handle and his passing. Our guards are fine.
Jack is not a 2!! At 6’8", 235, he is a 3!! The definittion of one!! He can guard multiple positions, he’s tough and versatile. Can’t rebound worth a shit and needs to pass more, but he should not be taking away minutes from Beli, Morrow or Ellis at the 2.
Our problem, as noted, is our interior defense and rebounding.
We have a bunch of skinny poles who are nice guys to boot. No attitude, no nasty streak. When’s the last time a big guy of ours has LEVELED an opposing player going to the hoop??? Never!! Beans always does these touch fouls or Ronny goes for the block and other guys sneak in for easy putbacks.
We need muscle, we need toughness, we need discipline and boxing out and beef.
Add Leon Powe, tell Randolph and Wright to gain weight, and get Beans on a 6 meal a day diet and get him up to a respectable 250 lbs.
Then, we may have a chance when you combine that with all the wing talent we have.
I should be GM, I know.
#28 D-MO
by D-Mo Gaucho on Jul 4, 2009 12:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"Buike is MUCH more than a replacement player. He’s an excellent backup 2."
He’s a solid backup 2, I’m not sure I’d call him excellent.
And solid backup is pretty much my definition of a replacement-level player.
by Ronaldinho on Jul 5, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
keep it low! for now
we need to resign these d league players for cheeapp!! liek buike and watson then dont sign other bignames to wait and save cap space!!! get bosh!!!!
by thekiddisfresh on Jul 4, 2009 1:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
haha
feed biedrins make him TWO FIFTY LOL! AND RANOLPH TO 230 HAHA YUR FUNNY!
by thekiddisfresh on Jul 4, 2009 1:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
RONNY NEEDS TO LOSE SOME WEIGHT SORRY
HE DOES THIS HE CAN BE GOOD IN JUMPING HIGHER AND DUNK
HAHA
by thekiddisfresh on Jul 4, 2009 1:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yea and he doesn’t block shots very well either
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 1:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
warriors just need a backup 4 that nellie confides in more than wright and they’ll be on their way. i was a fan of spending the mle on sessions but with the drafting of curry the signing becomes harder to defend. really, the best case for the warriors would be to land odom for the mle but, for now, that’s a pipe dream.
by dubsfan510 on Jul 4, 2009 2:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
warriors just need a backup 4 that nellie confides in more than wright and they’ll be on their way.
Why is Nellie not confiding in Wright? Does he have trouble keeping secrets?
by jae on Jul 5, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Because he has developed trust issues with everyone he has ever confided in
poor Don Nelson
there’s really only two places left for him to turn:
and
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Haha
Rec for that one. Well done.
Thing 2
by olympicmike on Jul 6, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LEON POWE
WE NEED LEON POWE
trade away brandan wright, have anthony and leon share the 4 spot
by dancingchiapet on Jul 5, 2009 7:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
YES ON POWE!!
Bring him back to the bay, PLEASE!!! We can get him at an affordable price and he is an upgrade over Wright, imo, because he simply plays tougher and more physical. And that’s what we need. Maybe it will be infectious for everyone else.
And what is so funny about adding weight to the beanpoles? These guys have the frames to do it, they’re long and lean and with the right weight training, they could easily add 10 lbs. each.
When they add weight we will be a better team.
Beefed up front line + Powe= just what we need to balance out our roster.
#28 D-MO
by D-Mo Gaucho on Jul 6, 2009 12:03 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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