Belinelli Traded, World Does Not End: State of the Warriors after the trade
by jae on Jul 30, 2009 10:58 PM PDT
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Print[UPDATE! it's still not a big deal!]
You can generally tell it's a slow news day with the anchors start off talking about the weather. It happens a few times a year. Anchor trying his best to look interested: "Our top story: It's cold! Record low temperatures that break the previous record set in 1973. How are people coping with it? Popsicle sales are way, way down! But not in Seattle, where it's hot! Popsicle sales are at a record level in Washington and Oregon."
And you can also tell when it's a slow sports day when trading Marco Belinelli causes so much commotion. I chose to attribute it to a slow day and an off-season where nothing consequential has happened; the alternative is to admit that a collective insanity has gripped the Warriors fans. Marco Belinelli, we hardly knew ye, and had you not been traded, we probably wouldn't have known much more. With more than 900 Belinelli-related posts in the first 24 hours after it was announced, posts about him now outnumber his minutes played last season. Oh the humanity insanity!
The real news: this trade was just not that big a deal.
But inconsequential aside, where does this leave us? How has Warrior-dom change? Follow the jump for the break-down.
(At least someone seems to be smiling about this.) [via www.nba.com]
The simple story is that this deal was about money. It usually is.
(And it might not just be money in Cohan's pocket, though we cannot rule that out.)
In the short term, this move has almost no cap or luxury tax ramifications. George's salary is for all practical purposes a push with Belinelli's. That Toronto has agreed to pick up the tab does not provide us with cap relief or stave off the luxury tax. The cap and the tax do not care who pays the contract, only who owns the contract and for now, Devean George's contract is the property of one Chris Cohan. For cap and tax computations, he's our liability.
But he's also our asset. Not so much an asset on the court. We can only hope any management reports that Devean is here to play means he's here to play cards or play his stereo after games in the locker room or anything that does not involve him seeing much if any time on the court. It isn't that he's a bad player, it's just that he's, well, what's another word for bad? As an asset, he is an expiring contract.
Of course, if the Warriors didn't exercise their fourth year option on Belinelli, he too would have been an expiring contract, but that decision would have had to happen before the season starts. If they did not renew him, he would have become an unrestricted free agent at year's end with no Bird rights attached. If he wasn't traded, even if he exploded, we'd be hard pressed to keep him. If we traded him mid year, the team he winds up on will be in the same situation. Without picking up the option, his only value is as money off the books at year's end. Which is more or less exactly the same value as Devean George: no future, nothing more than an expiring contract. Without the option, he'd walk and likely be looking for a vet. min. deal or flights back to Milan. Essentially, we cut Belinelli, but in about the nicest way to do this as the Raptors still hold the option on his contract. He still gets paid and may well figure into their plans in the Great White North. Beauty, eh?
Actually, as an expiring contract, George may have slightly more appeal in that do he doesn't cost anything. As a chip in a future trade, George might have slightly more value to any team acquiring him as he's free, his salary paid by the Raptors for the rest of the year. Ok, that's probably not enough to entice a reluctant team thinking about moving a star for salary relief, but it can't hurt. He also has slightly more value in that any team holding his expiring deal can sign him to another contract with fewer cap restrictions than they would for Belinelli. Why would this matter? A sign and trade (yes, I wrote it -- sign and trade -- I'm not proud of it and this is not license for everyone else to jump in with their favorite sign-and-trade Davidson, Watson and change for Dwight Howard) with George could be that tiny bit that makes a deal work. At this point in his career, George might agree for sake of a guaranteed contract for another year, something he might not easily find. It's unlikely, but it's not impossible. So relative to Belinelli's deal, George's expiring deal is a slightly larger asset, likely inconsequentially so, but, still it exists.
So what do our assets look like? In expiring deals that we can use before the deadline, we've got Claxton and his $5,209,454 to go with George's $1,600,000. In the likely event that Nellie and Riley do not decide to pull the trigger on Acie Law's 4th year, you can tack on another $2,216,160. That's $9,025,614 in expiring contracts to dangle, which on its own could be swapped for up to $11,382,017 for incoming players. Package that with Brandan Wright, or do not exercise his option as well, and we can bring back $14.7mil in contracts to a team simply looking to shed salary fast. Those are not inconsequential numbers.
Of course, it's possible that no deal with happen and no deal is about to happen. For the next 60 days George cannot be included in any package. Law and Claxton are also on hold in a package deal until Aug 26th. It is still possible for teams to work out a deal in principle ahead of time, and if parties are really agreeable, it does not appear that it would really put a stop to deals given that a swap would still make a transaction possible before October training camps start.
Anyone know if the Warriors have booked outbound flights for George on or around September 28th?
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I wonder what number he is going to wear.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 30, 2009 11:05 PM PDT reply actions
He looks like Donald Faison (Turk from Scrubs)
And looks like he’ll be a scrub.
So now with 10-15 mill of expirings – time to debate who we should try to get. And when. Do we wait as the season progresses and teams start making moves (team isn’t going to make playoffs, so dump a good player to save cash) or do we want to do something before the season starts?
Or just let the expirings expire and go after Lebron!
So does Corey Spaghetti.
Although he also looks like Xzibit.
"Monta is the MAN." -Bob Fitzgerald
by WarriorForLife on Jul 31, 2009 2:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Wow, cold! You guys are making him out to be Stimpy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54mf61KN7wA&feature=related
but check out the ending, Devean gets the last laugh.
" I hear the ancient footsteps like the motion of the sea
Sometimes I turn, there's someone there, other times it's only me
I am hanging in the balance of the reality of man
Like every sparrow falling, like every grain of sand."
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 31, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
If the expirings expire, we don’t get one for one replacement. It won’t take us far enough under the cap to go after a big name.
jae
LOL- It looks like my old post with a different title without the picture =)
It’s not the end of the world, but this spells the end of the spark of hope after the Curry draft.
This is the big summer trade rotfl :) This is it, the man they wanted the whole time, DGeorge :)
I find it interesting that we have done nothing, we have watched every free agent taken off the market while management told the fans they were looking for a veteran PF ? and this is who they come up with?
Maybe not the end of the world, but the beginning of the end for the Riley GM vote of confidence.
by ForestGrump on Jul 30, 2009 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions
except your old post took the completely wrong angle, while this one is spot on
“but this spells the end of the spark of hope after the Curry draft” ?
The hope of a young core of Randolph, Ellis, Curry, and Morrow coupled with our very strong summer league performance far outweigh the momentum lost by Belinelli being traded. HE HAD NO BEARING ON OUR HOPES FOR THIS YEAR OR THE FUTURE.
For you to even propose that we should have been big players in the free agent market is laughable considering the Jackson and Maggette contracts. We are committed to our immediate future. But there is always hope when your core is primarily young and very talented.
People fail to realize that our big contracts have put us in a position where we have no choice but to commit to our young talent by patiently watching them develop. There is a connection between our commitments to Randolph, Morrow, and eventually Curry as primary rotation players and the big contracts of Jackson and Maggette. This connection is continually missed by our fanbase. People comment on posts like every move and player comparison happens within a vacuum.
by eastbayglory on Jul 31, 2009 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
eastbay
That’s not what about 50% of the people said in the poll I took that was taken down, they agreed with the post, and agreed that our current leadership is showing incompetence.
You and a few dissenting voices are trying to downplay these incompetent moves that Riley/Nelson are making,
I asked the question what have these two guys done for ther Warriors this summer in free agency or in smart trades?
They traded for JC to appease AL and it turned out to be a bad traqde for us, (strike one)
Then they dumped JC for nothing; (strike two)
Now they dump Marco for nothing (strike three)
They don’t have a plan and they are not making sound basketball decisions, this is typical of a Don Nelson don;lt give a damm attitude.
We’re lucky that Randolph sought outside council after Don told him to get a hold of his agent if he wanted to be traded.
This ship is ready to have a major melt down this year if things continue the way there going, the team will blow up and Don will act like a dictator and send other players packing for nothing, I seen it happen before and it took almost 15 years to repair.
I said along time ago that Don is ok as long as you have a smart GM asnd owner, and we have neither.
by ForestGrump on Jul 31, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Then they dumped JC for nothing; (strike two)
Dumping a high volume shooter who in his best season rose to average efficiency, who cannot rebound, who plays shorter than he is, and who couldn’t defend a chihuahua? That’s not a strike. That’s a solid single. That’s getting rid of a guy who will help you lose more often than he helps you win, who in a 10 year career has never played in the playoffs and is part of the reason why his teams don’t make the playoffs and managing to get him off the books a year sooner. If we could have given him away for a broken toaster, it would have been a better deal, but as it stands, I’m pleasantly surprised that a bigger sucker took him on. I look forward to seeing him score 50 once this season, followed by multiple 3 for 15 games where I almost match his rebound total.
By the way
Your FanPost was taken down because it wasn’t high enough quality to merit an individual FanPost. You were requested to move it to a comment of FanShot > Chat.
Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!"
by Atma Brother ONE on Jul 31, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Then they dumped JC for nothing; (strike two)
They dumped a $19 million contract over the next 2 seasons for 2 contacts total $7.4 million that expire this season. That is not a strike.
by IQofaWarrior on Jul 31, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
50% of the fanbase showing dissatisfaction with the FO is hardly proof of incompetence
The fact of the matter is that we are in a situation this year where we can’t/don’t necessarily need to make big moves, especially, with Randolph, Ellis, Curry, and Morrow emerging as our core. Also remember that we are only one year removed from a 48 win team in which Jackson, Ellis, Biedrins, and Azubuike were key contributors.
The three strikes you listed are all pretty inconsequential, so if you want to claim within a vacuum that this proves that Nelly and the front office are incompetent, save it for another day.
Please stop implying that I and “the dissenting few” are defenders/apologists of the Riley/Nelson regime as a whole. Rather, my sense is that though we have not been pleased with the immediate past, we are encouraged by the semblance of a direction that the front office has shown this off-season, most notably, a commitment to parse down the roster in superfluous areas and establish a consistent rotation.
by eastbayglory on Jul 31, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Count me as dissenter
A Sonics fan without a team... but 6 season now of GS Warriors ticket have convinced me to adopt the boys from Oakland.
+1
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jul 31, 2009 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Please stop implying that I and "the dissenting few" are defenders/apologists of the Riley/Nelson regime as a whole. Rather, my sense is that though we have not been pleased with the immediate past, we are encouraged by the semblance of a direction
What’s the difference?
" I hear the ancient footsteps like the motion of the sea
Sometimes I turn, there's someone there, other times it's only me
I am hanging in the balance of the reality of man
Like every sparrow falling, like every grain of sand."
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 31, 2009 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I think we do need to make a big move to make up for the last 15 years. They can’t just wait to become good. I think they have to be aggressively looking for a big name who can help us get deep into the playoffs in the foreseeable future. These expiring contracts give us an opportunity, and the F.O. owes it to the fans.
you know
Deaven George has always been a player I remembered in the league. I remember him the same way guys like LeBron, Kobe, Shaq etc. pop up in people’s heads when they hear the word “basketball”.
The reason for this is because George used to look exactly like someone, but I forget who now. I always thought of him as the guy who looks like someone I knew. I just can’t remember who it was right now.
I also used to hate him when he played for the Lakers, I don’t know why. I guess I just didn’t like how he acted and how he was getting so much success by playing with a great team. I laughed when he finally got traded from the Lakers to Dallas, and laughed more as he was supposed to be the guy to stop Baron in the Playoffs but ended up getting owned by BD. hahaha.
But yeah, I hear that the Warriors are planning to keep him. They want a veteran presence in the wings, but would be a bonus if he can help the team get an impact player in a trade.
by Precise Films Productions on Jul 30, 2009 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions
George
Funny how people perceive players differently, the guy never impressed me much.
I thought he was long gone, and I sure don’t see him helping this team. all wee need is another guy who can shot 29% from 3 point land.
by ForestGrump on Jul 30, 2009 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions
He looks like a busted a$$ Corey Maggette!!! Hahaha
Geeez Louf*ckingweeez!!!
by scottiepimppen on Jul 31, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
A trade with Belinelli in it is more attractive than Devean FRIKKEN George
And no we got to wait two months to package George when we could have accomplished the same stuff just staying put and using Belinelli.
A wise man once said the best move is a no move. Should have stayed put. What a worthless trade. There’s no defense for it. Horrible, horrible trade.
yeah
People are just trying to say that this trade is meaningless and worthless to make it seem like the Warriors aren’t any more stupid than they already are.
Meaningless trade = Don’t worry.
Stupid trade = OMG I hate the Warriors even more.
But I can’t blame them. When was the last time we all screamed, “YES!!!!!” after the Warriors pulled off a trade? We were on a roll getting Baron and then Jack/Harrington, but then we went downhill after that.
The only thing keeping me happy with our team is that we have a potential future superstar in Anthony Randolph, a great shooter in Morrow to follow and see develop, and a great player in Monta (even though everyone hates his guts now). But does that mean that the Warriors are progressing when it comes to making GREAT moves? No, it just means that we were lucky to have Randolph fall to us in the draft and spotted a diamond in the rough in Morrow. I still think the squad we have now is a 6-8th seed in 2010, though. We’ll be a big surprise to the league if we manage to stay healthy. Although having an incredibly bad record gives us a chance at John Wall!
by Precise Films Productions on Jul 30, 2009 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions
But I can’t blame them. When was the last time we all screamed, "YES!!!!!" after the Warriors pulled off a trade?
How about Baron Davis?
by ForestGrump on Jul 31, 2009 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions
no, yes, and no
… even with Baron there was a “wait and see” attitude: there was a good deal of trepidation about acquiring a malcontent before Baron’s splashy entrance gave us a shot in the arm during (another) otherwise lost season, but the following full season with Monty was not a joy to endure and Baron contributed to the dysfunctional nature of that team … so to answer your question, I honestly don’t remember a large contingent of fans having the sleeplessinseattle “yesssssss” moment following a GSW trade, ever.
were you happy when we got jackson/harrington?
I was extremely happy even though I had a bit of a worry about how Jackson’s attitude would affect our team and how the Warriors would do with the loss of Troy’s rebounding.
by Precise Films Productions on Jul 31, 2009 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions
I was, I was one of the early defenders of that trade – honestly more for Harrington than Jackson, and like everyone else more to unload Dunleavy than lose Murphy. … recall too that by and large the mainstream media was quick to proclaim Indy had gotten the better of the deal while most posters on GSoM were hopeful that it would work out (though not all, like Marco ;=] ) … Harrington helped significantly in the stretch run logging serious minutes at C during Nelson’s frenzied attempt to create mismatches, before running out of gas and into a much more daunting task of playing playoff caliber front lines. He was a significant player in that stretch drive.
I’d characterize the mood of the fans as anxious>jubilant after the Indy trade, with lots of desperate hope being expressed … I also remember thinking that after the draft debacle and the poor showing during the first half, that if the trade didn’t work out then Mullin and Nelson would both have been on the way out
I (figuratively) screamed “YES!!” at the time of Harrington/Jackson trade — even more passionately than at the time of the BD trade. Dumping two salary millstones who had worn out their welcome in one swell foop? While picking up two guys with less onerous contracts, one of whom I (rather foolishly) thought at the time had potential as a real PF, the other a tough, defensive-minded former champion whose value was depressed by a mostly undeserved reputation as a bad guy? That remains the biggest feather in Mullin’s GM cap, imo, even if the incoming and outgoing talent wasn’t that dissimilar.
Meanwhile, in Larry Riley’s short tenure, he’s now elicited: (1) a strong YES (drafting Curry, the BPA); (2) a quieter but still solid yes (dumping Crawdaddy for expirings); and (3) a “meh/wtf” combo, which I’m upgrading to a “meh/not bad” after reading this excellent diary.
So we lose our eleventh-best player and pick up a straight bum. We also:
1. Gain a bit of salary relief, and/or larger pool of expirings to play with in a trade (AK47, GWallace, CButler, or DLee, anyone?)
2. Give a strong, implicit vote of confidence to Morrow, who deserves it
3. Give a nice boost to Belinelli’s chances of having an actual NBA career
So long as Devean George doesn’t see one minute of PT, I’m totally OK with this deal. To date, Riley hasn’t made a single bad move. A-/B+ so far — upgrade to A+ if he can ship some of our expirings for one of the four players I mentioned above.
Now please stop spamming the board, Forest Grump?
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 31, 2009 6:17 AM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
I valued Murphy more than you did, and obviously he and Harrington were the sugar to help the medicine go down for both sides to take the others off their hands, but I’d totally agreed (and posted then) that the contracts we were getting back were a key difference in the trade (although we have negated that advantage now by extending Jax) … the rest of your comment is obviously not directed at me … did you confuse me with Grump? perhaps there’s a likeness I was not aware of ;-]
Sorry for the confusion, hc: rest of comment was not directed at you, just a continuation of the “Warriors GM resume” train of thought. I really should have cut-and-pasted everything after the first paragraph in a separate comment to the Grump, but he’s written the same post on this board so many times in the last 24 hours it was hard to single out one post to reply to…
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 31, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah I'm starting to get real annoyed by mr grump too
He wouldn’t half as annoying if he wasn’t spamming the site with his whining.
@ forrest grump—→ I think we got your point the first 9 posts. You HATE this trade. Can you please give it rest now…
Ahh Eee Ahh Eee Ahh! Waahh! Waahh! Wahh!
by Tim&ChrisBurger on Jul 31, 2009 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions
LOLO
I will give it a real long rest now:) this is good by, whhhhhah !!
re: perhaps there’s a likeness I was not aware of ;-]
You’re “harcore” and he’s “hard to understand”.
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jul 31, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
And I am hard to understand. Maybe me and Forest should elope.
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jul 31, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Baron Davis
I disagree, people were shouting from the roof tops in unbelief when we got Baron Davis.
Anyone that knew basketball was bewildered that we were able to snatch him, he was a runner up for MVP a couple years before.
We gave up Dale Davis and speedy, it was SLAM DUNK !!
What do you mean the following year was not a joy? That was We believe dude, where you been?
Obviously your opinions are not rooted in reality, at lest some of them, there is no justfication for giving our number 1 picks away for nothing, then trying to con the warrior nation into thinking they made a good deal.
That won’t fly with me, and most of the fans, this site is working as a satellite for the front office at times and is trying to downplay these huge blunders.
The handwriting on the wall,and there is a 50/50 chance this whole team could blow up this year. we don’t have stable management.
by ForestGrump on Jul 31, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
After getting Baron Davis
we had one full season with Baron coached by Mike Montgomery before Montgomery was terminated (bought out/i forgot what) as coach. So no, the following year after we got Baron was NOT a joy.
by IQofaWarrior on Jul 31, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
“So no, the following year after we got Baron was NOT a joy.”
That year was god awful. Baron had me on the ledge at that point (and by that I mean I was losing interest in the Warriors)…
by Missing Barry on Jul 31, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
he was a runner up for MVP a couple years before.
False. The best he ever ranked for MVP was 10th in ‘03/04. Second best was 15th in ’06/07. Didn’t rank any other year. Only made all-NBA once in his career (’03/04) and that was third team.
What do you mean the following year was not a joy? That was We believe dude, where you been?
Where you been? The first full season with BD and Monty was 05/06, when he played mostly crappily, missed 30 games, and “led” the team to a 34-48 record.
That won’t fly with me, and most of the fans, this site is working as a satellite for the front office at times
Yup. Hardcore, Sam, Atma, RDizzle, jae, et al.: Astroturfers for the Warriors FO, every last one of ’em. You really are the only honest man left.
Seriously, man: calm down and stop babbling.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 31, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
I wish we were working as satellite for the front office. A) I’d be working and B) they’d have someone who knew how to do math on their payroll.
What do you mean the following year was not a joy? That was We believe dude, where you been? Where you been? The first full season with BD and Monty was 05/06, when he played mostly crappily, missed 30 games, and "led" the team to a 34-48 record.
For one thing I’m referring to his second year:
Also he had was runner up during that one year but tailed off at the end, he was an all star point guard and is and was considered one of the best in the game.
You sure didn’t have much to say when he was here leading this team to the playoff’s now did you?
The point was when we found out that we got Baron it was almost pandemonium, if you weren’t enthused and thinking we just made a great deal then what does that say for your ability to evaluate talent?
And on the same token if you think the Marco trade improved our team then you been sipping to much Nellie brew.
it’s time for the fans to speak up and put these guys in check, as i said the Riley/Nelson duo is a recipe for disaster, I said we had a 50/50 chance of blowing up this year but it’s more like a 70/30 chance.
The only saving grace in this whole thing is Curry. he may come through and help stabilize the team.
I think Don is desperate and that is scary.
by ForestGrump on Jul 31, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
babbling
bab·ble (bbl)
v. bab·bled, bab·bling, bab·bles
v.intr.
1. To utter a meaningless confusion of words or sounds
2. To talk foolishly or idly; chatter
v.tr.
1. To utter rapidly and indistinctly.
2. To blurt out impulsively; disclose without careful consideration.
n.
1. Inarticulate or meaningless talk or sounds.
2. Idle or foolish talk; chatter.
Thing A
He Thinks that
is exactly what you are doing…. Especially After Sleepy destroyed every point you put out there
GSOM- Where Education From Debate Happens
by The Dedication on Jul 31, 2009 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions
“ForestGump”, you are not making much, if any sense, and you are now putting a high, high volume of posts in as replies that don’t actually appear to be replying to the previous post. Please slow down and think about what you’re posting and where you are posting it. The only thing that comes through is that you’re angry, but the cumulative effect on the board with the haphazard posting is to kill any discussion that more sober participants may be having.
For one thing I’m referring to his second year:
That’s not the year hardcore was referring to. As you felt compelled to add a smartalecky jab to your comment (“where you been”?) you deserved to be corrected.
Also he had was runner up …. [snip]
Not really interested in a discussion of BD’s strengths and weaknesses, as they’ve been pretty well established, and have zero to do with this diary. I was simply stanching your spreading of misinformation in a public forum.
And on the same token if you think the Marco trade improved our team then you been sipping to much Nellie brew.
Does anyone think that? Seriously, did you even glance at jae’s diary? Scroll up, take a deep breath, and read to achieve.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 31, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
jae
Are you telling me your the one who’s takling down my fan posts?
I don;t think everyone at GSOM is of the same exact opinions, or this site is always used for damage control, but in this instance someone is trying to control the fan out burst.
I see many people playing down this idiotic dumping of Marco, and even the raptor nation knows we made a bone head trade, so why the damage control?
Let people speak there peace they have the right, after being a season ticket holder and attending many games and supporting the team I have that right.
I had a poll up that was split almost 50/50 showing that many of the fans have a feeling that our leadership is lacking competence, why not let the people speak?
Why suppress there voices? it’s better to let the front office know that we are watching closely and when they blunder were going to rally against there decisions.
I don;t see the harm is showining both sides.
by ForestGrump on Jul 31, 2009 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Are you telling me your [sic] the one who’s takling down my fan posts?
No. In fact, I quite clearly stated that I did not take them down and Atma quite clearly stated that he did. However, I have no issues with their removal if they resemble the sort of babble that you are engaging in here.
Slow down. Think. Put some time to edit and read what you wrote. The careless typos and sheer volume of posts you are generating is clear evidence that you are not doing this. You might pick up on whether or not you are even responding in the right place.
jae said it wasn’t him, but I highly doubt your post was taken down because of the view it expressed. Its not like the anti-Marco trade voices haven’t been expressed here. I’m guessing your post was taken down because its as incoherent as the rest of your comments and because there are already like 5 other Marco-trade related threads. The trade will have little to no impact on the team’s performance next year. Like jae said, there have been more comments about the trade than total minutes played by Belinelli, another thread is just pointless.
Thing A
sam, jae
My comments are not incoherent whatsoever, here is a post I just made to jae and his response is I am not making sense?
Jae.
You been drinking the nellie brew I see:
Let me ask you, we had a 10 mill exception from the JRich trade that Nelson wanted, and we all thought this was a move to get somone that would help us get over the hump, we thought Chris/Don seen something in BWright and had a plan for the 10 mill.
So what came of that deal ? were now ready to give away Wright and we didn’t even take advantage of the 10 mill exception? you want me to spell it out for you.
I-N-C-O-M-P-E-T-E-N-C-E
So the next year we miss the playoff’s and lose Baron and JRich, the team blew up, now were dumping our first round picks for nothing. and you or one of your boys takes down my fan posts because I am exposeing this nonsense?
I been a fan a lot longer than most anyone here, I have hardly missed a game since 1974, and many of those were on the radio with Bill King, I left the forrest a long time ago and can see the trees very well.
SAM, maybe you can respond to the point I’m making? let’s see how fast you on on your toes, all you guys are trying to do now is discredit my posts because you have no answers for the truth of there content:
My time is up here, I have better things to do than try to reason with people who only want to try and control others opinions with there delete buttons.
All I leave you with is a “I told you so” I’m saying that in advance.
So long GSOM
Grump signing off.
by ForestGrump on Jul 31, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
That was one of the posts I considered incoherent. The second time posted it doesn’t make any more sense and it still reads like you’re drinking.
So long GSOM
Grump signing off.
Is that a promise?
by jae on Jul 31, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
jae
That’s a promise, and it only reinforce what I just said about some of your guys attitude, you have no class and run the forum like dictators.
Have fun, I have better things to do.
by ForestGrump on Jul 31, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Not to be a mean R Dizzle or anything
But if you’ve been following the Warriors since 1974, It’s fair to assume you’re at least 35, which then begs a few questions.
1. How come you don’t know the simple rules of spelling, grammar, and punctuation?
2. Why are you so heated about stuff that’s said on a sports blog?
3. Why aren’t you getting all your facts straight?
We still believe!!
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by R Dizzle on Jul 31, 2009 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
R Dizzle
I may not punctuate very well, but that’s another story.
I was talking to people like Al Attles and Rick Berry before you were in diapers:
I have seen this up close and personal that’s all i want to say, and this site can be a tool to keep management in check, or it can be used as damage control for the front office.
Riley/Neson is a recipe for disaster and you can quote me on that if you like =)
Here is a little example of why were having this discussion, I voiced my passionate and strong opinions without fear or reservation, and those that are also of their strong opinions don’t agree with my position.
So one by one they start in with their sarcastic remarks until the whole issue is sidetracked to other issues such as one’s punctuation?
I think this is a classic case of people not wanting to hear the truth, as Jack Nicholson once said “You can’t handle the truth”
Grump
I may not punctuate very well, but that’s another story.
Actually, that’s a big part of the story. Look around this post (and I’m sure many others) – people are complaining left and right that nothing you’re saying is making any sense or is straight up annoying. Some wise person once told me that if you don’t know how to articulate a coherent thought and convey it properly, people are going to think you’re really really dumb. Even if you have intelligent things to say. Just a tip man, people will be much nicer if you’re being intelligent about what you’re saying, not repeating yourself constantly (which you have numerous times in this post) and if you’re not acting like one of the many 14 year olds we have called out on GSoM. ESPECIALLY if you claim to be 35+. That just seems ludicrous to me. I’m not saying you’re too old to participate, cause that’s just silly. Look at Sleepy, he’s like 1231423487274. But he (if you’re reading this Sleepy you’re only getting this once so enjoy it) sounds intelligent when he says stuff.
I was talking to people like Al Attles and Rick Berry before you were in diapers:
Yeah probably. Seeing as though I have no idea who Rick Berry is, I’m going to take you up on that. Is he the homie that created Franken Berry cereal? If so, you’ve got to introduce me!
Riley/Neson is a recipe for disaster and you can quote me on that if you like =)
Ok, but why don’t we just wait to see how things pan out before we start making claims like that. That’s just like me saying STEPHEN CURRY IS GOING TO BE A SUPERSTAR!!!! You CANNOT quote me on that.
So one by one they start in with their sarcastic remarks until the whole issue is sidetracked to other issues such as one’s punctuation?
No man, make your point – which is you don’t like the trade, wait to hear arguments, and then be mature about it. (How am I telling a 35+ year old to be mature? Did you not see my posts through the year?) No need to be silly, get all frustrated, and then say
So long GSOM
Cause you’re obviously not done. Which is fine, just don’t get your tightey whitey’s in a grump.
I think this is a classic case of people not wanting to hear the truth, as Jack Nicholson once said "You can’t handle the truth"
What exactly is the truth here? You don’t like the trade? That’s the truth? Cool. I don’t really either. At least not now, I’m going to wait a few months before I come to a final decision.
If that’s not the truth, well snap, whatever it is…I’d be glad to hear it. We can even have a philosophical debate (although I can only do this if you’re willing to spell correctly, have proper grammar, and punctuate your sentences) about the concept of “truth” and its definitions within the world and society. Email me (hit the mail icon by name at the bottom of the page) and I would LOVE to debate that.
Otherwise, let’s have a cordial discourse about the Warriors, about this trade, and our unexpected rise to the NBA finals.
We still believe!!
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by R Dizzle on Jul 31, 2009 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dizzle, Kiss my ass !
How’s that for spelling ?
Re: How’s that for spelling ?
Perfect spelling.
Does this finally prove my point that spelling is overrated?
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jul 31, 2009 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
You know normally this is the kind of garbage that would get you banned from this community, but since JAE and BSD seem to be pretty entertained by it (as well as R Dizzle I’m sure)- we’ll let ForestGrump publicly hang himself.
Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!"
by Atma Brother ONE on Jul 31, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Dizzle, sorry, I’m not out to pick on you personally, but this is absolutely classic:
Seeing as though I have no idea who Rick Berry is, …
ok, so he was the STAR on the championship dubz, and his name is Rick Barry. … an all-around complete player and prolific scorer he was also a passer and one hell of a competitor … do look him up, it’s worthy of your time as a GSW fan and particularly if you are a mod on the site!
Apparently you didn't get the joke
I was pointing out his inability to spell anything correctly, including players that he claims he met. Of course I knew who Rick BARRY was.
Personally, I thought that Franken Berry joke was money…
Maybe I need to work on my humor?
We still believe!!
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by R Dizzle on Jul 31, 2009 5:37 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Maybe I need to work on my humor?
The problem is that was a sit down joke not a stand up.
" I hear the ancient footsteps like the motion of the sea
Sometimes I turn, there's someone there, other times it's only me
I am hanging in the balance of the reality of man
Like every sparrow falling, like every grain of sand."
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 31, 2009 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Apparently you didn't get the joke.
I was pointing out Grump’s inability to spell anything correctly, even players names that he claims to have met. Of course I know who Rick BARRY is.
Personally, I thought that Franken Berry joke was money…maybe I need to work on my humor?
We still believe!!
Become a fan on facebook! www.facebook.com/goldenstateofmind
by R Dizzle on Jul 31, 2009 5:39 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Certainly funnier than the sad fate of Ricky Berry.
by jae on Jul 31, 2009 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dizzle
I couldn’t resist, it was totally tongue and cheek, you have to hearken back to some of the old classic lines of Dirty Harry =)
I apologize if you took that mean spirited =) if you read it slowly, I am not saying it as you read it, I am making a play on words ;P)
Just a little footnote, I was encouraged by acquiring Curry through the draft and see him as a big part of the future that is if we don’t have another meltdown. And I made many posts to that effect.
But I have lived through this same kind of leadership before when Don got full control of the team during the Webber debacle, I seen the whole thing come apart at the seams, I was in the stands in Oakland at draft day when they announced the Webber draft and thought Don was a genius the way he threw Philly off thinking he wanted Bradly=)
I was sitting three rows behind the warriors bench and watched Webby’s first exhibition game, and I seen the future and it was bright, I knew exactly what we had with CWebb and knew with all the talent we had on the team that we were going to be contenders.
Then I watched in horror as Don allowed the team to be dismantled piece by piece, he had the full support of Cohan without a GM to keep him in check.
What I see now is Don running things through Riley, and I see it as a recipe for disaster, I think Don is a mixed bag, he brings something to the table with his unorthodox style of play and it’s exciting, but when he gets too much power all hell breaks loose.
I think the fans should send a message to the front office that as supporters were not going to stand for bone head moronic moves.
So I raise my voice in protest for what I see is making moves that are not improving the team, I am not too concerned at saving Cohan some spending money so he can buy a bigger Yacht.
I never once checked to see who the moderators are, I talk to everyone the same, I am surprised that a couple of people are allowed that position after the way I see them treat people that they disagree with, that can only lead to anarchy in the end, people won’t tolerate being spoken down to or having there fan posts deleted.
No hard feelings here my friend, I just don’t want to waste my energy and be disrespected for it.
I think this is a classic case of people not wanting to hear the truth,
I wanna hear the truth :>)
Grump, let it ride for a while and it will be cool.
" I hear the ancient footsteps like the motion of the sea
Sometimes I turn, there's someone there, other times it's only me
I am hanging in the balance of the reality of man
Like every sparrow falling, like every grain of sand."
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 31, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
4. Why did you post the same comment 3 times in the same thread?
by IQofaWarrior on Jul 31, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Sleepy
Your the only one I see babbling ,bablying on others spelling and punctuation, and saying nothing for the most part =)
I have no idea who is who at GSOM, all I know is someone has the hots for me and is takeing down my fan posts.
You and others can sit here like kids whistling as they pass through the grave yard if you like but I been down this road before and see the handwriting on the wall.
I don’t jump to your words and don’t march to your trumpet, if you have an opinion about what my feelings are then post it, otherwise I have no interest in your sarcastic attitude.
This last move to dump Marco is a classic Nelson move when he has control of a team and it’s a I don’t give a damm attitude.
We have a major problem because the GM is his drinking buddy, this is a recipe for disaster.
Mark my words, we have a better than 50/50 chance of blowing up this year, and don;t tell me it can’t happen,I seen him do with before and it took over 11 years to get it behind us, and what was lost for this team will never be kno
I guess someone has to be the skunk at the garden party,
by ForestGrump on Jul 31, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Grump, based upon the past 24 hr, I’ll gladly keep my reality if the alternative is to adopt yours but I must admit, I’ve been just as pissed off in the past as you seem to be in the wake of the Marco trade (the KG fiasco and my pro-Amare rants specifically).
AFAIK no one was bewildered that we were able to “snatch” Baron – he was a malcontent and had open and vigorous clashes with his coach, and the full year Baron and Monty spent together was so bad in fact that Mullin spent most of the spring and summer trying to make trades to change up the team’s chemistry. He drafted POB and Kosta in order to be in position to unload either Foyle or Murphy. When he failed doing so, he “traded” Monty for Nelson – the We Believe followed that sequence, not before … you need to double check your chronology
as for giving our #1 pick away for nothing, it turns out that’s about what he was worth – Mullin reached trying to hit a HR and replace JRich and he missed… it wasn’t the only time #1 pick faltered (is POB in your reality? we got less for him than Marco) and I’m hardly trying to con anyone that the MB trade was a “great” deal – you’d be best served not to distort other people’s opinions to match your own reality. My position from the start was that is was a slightly better situation to move him now and get Tor’s cash to pay George than to hang on to MB. I suspect that part of your venom origins in the liklihood that we have widely differing views on Marco’s ability and potential, and that while he was one of your fav players he was not one of mine, to put it politely
you may not have been around long enough to know, but insinuating that I of all people am working in a conspiratorial effort to coverup the FO miscues is beyond laughable when I’ve been accused of being unduly harsh toward the FO in the past! in this case, it simply isn’t warranted, and I’m not alone – yet you seem to have some venomous response to my position
this too shall pass, hell, even Missing Barry and I joke around on this site ;=]
hardcore
I never knew you were even working for the site, I have never checked to see who’s who till last night when I e-mailed jae.
Sorry if I offended you, I rather liked you.
Grump
am fiercely independent myself & don’t work for the site …
though I truly believe that most of the time the mods act in accord with what they think is best for the community here, there have been plenty and recent episodes when I’ve been disappointed with the site as well … so you’re not alone
am also militantly agnostic
Re: there have been plenty and recent episodes when I’ve been disappointed with the site
Damn, Rdizzle’s Frankenberry joke wasn’t that bad!
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jul 31, 2009 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Nice reference. Always found that story to be disturbing, which I guess is appropriate for the bizarre nature of this Marco trade thread trilogy.
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jul 31, 2009 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions
ROFL… Trading Marco means our management is unstable. Even to you Marco was only 8th best on the team, but that is insane exaggeration of his value. The person who seems unstable to me is you with your inflated sense of your own ability to judge talent. You are not a talent scout, dude. Get over yourself.
concise summation plus refined salary implications of the more rational points made in all the comments of the earlier thread, all without any hint of sarcasm regarding all the tweaked out commentators – how did you resist? (rhetorical question)
for all the crap heaped upon the FO, no one would have predicted that we’d be sitting on a pile of expirings large enough to land a significant player
now the $64k question: will they let it evaporate like the JRich TPE?
stay tuned to As the Warriors’ World turns …
“will they let it evaporate like the JRich TPE?”
Well, let’s at least acknowledge that those situations aren’t really the same. When a trade exception expires, it’s gone and you get nothing. When an expiring contract expires, that frees money up off the books.
by Missing Barry on Jul 31, 2009 5:27 AM PDT up reply actions
It would be worth adding a poll
to find out if and why the trade upset people. I think a large number of people are bewildered by the player we got back that nobody wanted, wondering why we got him. The next group is probably the Marco fans who wanted him to play. Then there’s the small group who feel indifferent because the impact to the roster wasn’t all that much. Finally, there’s the 1 guy out there who publicly professed to liking this trade. Thizz knows who that 1 guy is.
Yeah
The fan polls haven’t been really on point on this site. People trying to be more about humorous and clever options than choices that would gauge how the fans feel…
"A foghorn blowing out wild and cold." -Dire Straits
Darn those wretched humorous people. We all need to get serious, with furrowed brows and clenched buttocks! That’s what being a basketball fan is all about!
by Naticus on Jul 31, 2009 2:55 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
yeah
atma’s poll was hard to vote on.
it was like marco sucks so it doesnt matter
or
im an idiot for not liking this trade
Marco Belinelli's Biggest Fan
“I think a large number of people are bewildered by the player we got back that nobody wanted, wondering why we got him.”
Speaking for a couple of people here (myself included) – we understand the trade and why the Warriors did it, it just makes us question the direction of the team and doesn’t give us confidence that anything has changed with Warriors management and their focus still isn’t on winning. From a basketball perspective, it’s probably an inconsequential trade, and from a business perspective, it makes some sense (and for most other franchises I would call it a decent idea), but given the Warriors history, I just can’t get on board with it.
I also think you underestimate the group that’s indifferent. I think it’s much more sizable, they just aren’t posting 100 comments on it each, because, as you said, they’re indifferent…
by Missing Barry on Jul 31, 2009 5:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Then theres the 10 Raptor fans who are trolling our board
by crab dribble cocktail on Jul 31, 2009 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions
crab
you trolled heat and piston blog to make a trade idea sound good.
nice job hipocrit
Marco Belinelli's Biggest Fan
that is why we need a better way to do cross-site posts on sbnation
A 3rd category (after fanposts/shots) where cross site posts appear
It would be worth adding a poll
about which Evony ad is the the most effective (- that tempts you to click through, in case that had to be spelled out for anyone! )
I all really remember of him was the 2007 playoffs and thinking....
… why does he take so many shots if he can’t make them? But I guess he will just sit on the bench this time around.
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "Your a rookie"
I know I reacted badly to this trade because...
I’ve never liked Devean George as a player; I don’t think he’s very good. I do like Belinelli as a player. I expect him to do quite well in Toronto. I don’t think we should have kept Belinelli, but I thought we could do better than George.
The fact that Toronto is paying for George (and Beli was likely to be grumpy if he didn’t get to play) makes this slightly more palatable than it initially appeared (and jae’s explanation of why the Warriors are doing it now makes some sense,) but it still feels like a step backwards because I didn’t mind having Beli on the roster and he was trade-able. Now I’m stuck with Devean George on my teams for at least 60 days for no concrete benefit.
I feel sorry for GSW fans
Trying to sugar coast this deal isn’t the best therapy. Trying to find the silver lining doesn’t make the deal good or fair. Your GM got fleeced by BC into giving up a 23 year old with upside for a 31 year old on his last leg. The fact we paid his salary also means nothing if your a fan. Their not going to lower ticket prices, so what do you care that the Raps paid Goerges salary. You write about assets and yes an expiring is worth somewthing but it’s worth more if it’s a player someone wants because you could get more.
Honestly, the part I feel sorry for is the crappy ownership and front office your dealing with. We felt like that in Toronto before BC came and it sucks when your team does nothing to inspire hope.
Are you a Raptors fan trying to talk trash here about a Marco Belinelli trade?
You clearly have no understanding of our roster situation or the potentially bright future ahead. Plus, all trades have more implication than the 1 for 1 player swap. This was definitely because Belo would not play on this team and George is a better trading asset.
Now, I know you get the impression that we all LOVE Marco Belinelli. But the reality is that we have 8 young players that are more valuable on this team: 1. Randolph 2. Ellis 3. Curry 4. Biedrins 5. Morrow 6. Azubuike 7. Turiaf 8. Wright 9. Belinelli On top of that, we have our two vets in Jackson and Maggette.
I see what you’re trying to do here, maybe show some empathy for a seemingly dysfunctional front office, and I appreciate that. But for the first time in a while, I’m getting the sense that there is finally a cohesive vision for the franchise, a commitment to a specific core of young talent (Ellis, Randolph, Curry, Morrow), and for that reason, the Belinelli trade was a sound move.
by eastbayglory on Jul 31, 2009 7:40 AM PDT up reply actions
BC?
Um… Toronto isn’t in British Columbia. Nope it’s in the province of Ontario. The Grizzles were in BC.
A Sonics fan without a team... but 6 season now of GS Warriors ticket have convinced me to adopt the boys from Oakland.
because?
it’s so much more offensive than the marco version?
or because there’s more/less evidence?
GSoM has the biggest percentage of homers I’ve seen on a large variety of sbnation sites, nothing new. Why does one player chafe more than another?
Re: Why does one player chafe more than another?
Let’s take two extremes:
Maggette: Came with disappointment as a step down from Baron, was overpaid and had a reputation for “not being a winner” and “being a ball hog”. So people already had their filters on looking for his non-winning ways and legendary ball-hoggery. Maggette delivered on his ball-hoggery and the Warriors didn’t win.
His ball hogging ways and fragility overshadowed his good production, instant offense and willingness to accept a bench role without a peep. The fact that the Warriors didn’t win (that’s mostly Monta’s and partly Rowell’s fault) amplified his flaws and made him an easy target for fans. Is that fair? Maybe, maybe not but he’s a far better player than GSoM’s sweetheart . . .
Belinelli: He had that 37 point Summer League game and he has a really cool-looking jump-shot, when it goes in. He’s flashy, makes spectacular plays and, this is just my opinion, he’s benefiting from great-white-hope syndrome a bit. Plus he’s a draft pick and cheap.
What has he actually done? Nothing. What can he do? Who knows? He’s kind of a Jamal Crawford-light that has recently discovered the magic of giving effort on defense after a year-and-a-half of avoiding it as if it were good shot selection. He’s a flashy chucker. People probably like him for the same reason people liked Jamal Crawford for all of those years but he was a draft pick and looked like Frank Stallone.
That’s my theory . . .
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jul 31, 2009 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
I am a Raptors fan
I do empathise because we lived through the same crap before we got a good GM and I remember feeling like what Jae put in his post. Looking for the bright side when there isn’t one. I hope you turn it around and the trust you’re putting in Nellie and Co.
by Big Smoke Gary on Jul 31, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
hate to break it to you but your “good” GM just handed out one of the most ridiculous contract extensions ever and also overpaid for a free agent this offseason. I thought the Jackson extension and Maggette signings were bad but I definitely wouldn’t want to swap them for Turkoglu and Bargnani.
Thing A
I will not Amen this, on the basis that if you ignore it, it will go away…
by Missing Barry on Jul 31, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Big Smoke
I agree with you 100% I like your GM and would of written his name if I knew how to spell it =)
Our GM is a Nellie puppet, and that’s the biggest problem, I have often said you need to keep Don is check, he at times has a don’t give a damm attitude, and without a smart GM to counter him this guy will blow a team up, he did it in the CWebb fieaco and it took over 11 years to turn that around, now he’s back in the drivers seat ands it’s one hell of a scary ride.
by ForestGrump on Jul 31, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
What good moves has Colangelo made with the Raptors? I love Calderon and like Bosh, but I’m pretty sure both those players were acquired by the previous GM (Babcock?) Dealing Villanueva for Ford? meh, both Ford and Charlie V are flawed players, but that move kept Calderon on the bench a whole lot more. Dealing Ford for O’Neal? Meh again, it cleared playing time for Calderon but O’Neal wasn’t very good or very healthy and that shouldn’t have been as big of a surprise. Extending Calderon? Great move. Drafting Barganani? Horrible, it was a weak draft but it was still awful. Kapono for Evans? Meh, both guys are one trick ponies so I guess its good for a team that needs rebounding more than shooting, but its not gonna drastically change the team’s fortunes. O’Neal for Marion? Meh, it allowed them to overpay for Turkoglu, it seems like they probably could’ve done better. The Bargnani extension? One of the worst moves I can remember. So his best move was extending the PG that was already on the roster and all the rest of his moves have been “meh” at best. How has Riley been worse than that?
Thing A
Read carefully. I wasn’t looking for bright side. The deal was so incredibly “meh” that it’s really staggering to me that there were so many posts about it so quickly. We all need something better to do, but the weather here is really crappy this week, so I’m not running out to sit in the sun fog.
Honestly, if training camp had come and Belinelli wasn’t listed on the roster, it would have been a while before I noticed. Really. I didn’t think he meant much to the team and don’t believe that because he was a (mid to late) first round pick that somehow we need to squeeze blood out of that turnip to try to recoup sunk costs. He wasn’t a great pick or a substantial player. He has a shot at being a long range specialist, but those guys in general aren’t worth nearly as much as most people think. If they gave him away for nothing, it wouldn’t have bothered me. And that’s pretty much what they did.
I’ll spell it out. I-N-C-O-N-S-E-Q-U-E-N-T-I-A-L. (I hope I spelled it correctly.)
it's better to down play this trade
because it is absolutely ridiculous. keep the sheep marching.
Oh, I didn't know Devean George's lifeless body was still an NBA player....
Do you think they can ship him frieght from Toronto to save money?
Blogging at RidiculousUpside, where my terrible writing meets people's eyes.
Wait, wait, wait...
You are telling me that we can magically turn Crawford (in the form of Claxton and Law) Belinelli (played by Devean George), and BWright into a $14.7mil player and you guys are all UPSET about this???? Seriously? Rocky meant that much to you?
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
by Supafishal on Jul 31, 2009 6:56 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
not we can, we might … ah the vaunted value of flexibility – the same rationale Mullin used to legitimize trading JRich (he did not say it was to re-sign Monta and Andris at the time, that “reason” was a subsequent rationale)
I’m with you Supafishal, but unless we carry the torch across the finish line we don’t win … as always, the value of these moves depends on whether we maximize on the opportunity to significantly add to the roster, otherwise it is just dumping players and salaries, and the fans have a right to be skeptical based upon our track record
Point taken. 100%. If I have to watch Claxton kicking to an open George I’ll be the first to call Riley an idiot. Still, I am impressed that we managed to go from having absoloutely no room to manuever to being able to put together an attractive trade package before the “FA BONANZA” (toss that one in the can with “Pass-First PG”) of 2010.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Question: I’ve been assuming if we trade George the Raptors $1.6M goes with him, but thinking about it, I would like to have a clear answer to that. So for anyone that knows the answer, feel free to enlighten me…
This isn’t clear at all, and I don’t think that it’s the sort of thing that management will ever make clear.
League rules clearly allow for Toronto to send cash (up to $3mil) with a deal, which means they could more than cover George’s deal up front. It’s less clear when you read about “Toronto will continue to pay his salary” if this is literally the case (in which case it would very, very likely go with George) or if it figuratively mean that they would give Cohan the chunk of change up front to offset, in which case, it wouldn’t necessarily go along with the deal.
The cash is exactly that cash. Toronto doesn’t pay his salary they give GSW cash. If you trade him you still keep the cash.
But remeber if your over the cap the only way to trade him is take a similar salary back.
by Big Smoke Gary on Jul 31, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
But remeber if your [sic] over the cap the only way to trade him is take a similar salary back.
That’s not actually true. if the other team is over the cap, they have to send out similar salary, but there’s no requirement that a team over the cap take anything back. Of course, only a team over the cap looking to acquire expiring deals would be interested in George, but for sake of accuracy…
You missed a “sic” after “remeber.” ;-)
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 31, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
I’ll have to remember to be more critical in the future.
by jae on Aug 1, 2009 3:27 AM PDT up reply actions
“The cash is exactly that cash.”
Is it, though? Where is this information coming from? The report I read said they’re paying part of his salary, which I interpret as possibly meaning they’re paying part of his contract wherever he goes.
by Missing Barry on Jul 31, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Its a shame...
that as a Warrior fan I have grown accustomed to deriving more pleasure from watching players on the team to root for than actually expecting us to win games. In that respect I will miss Belinelli b/c I enjoyed rooting for him while he was in the game. Basically I watch all the games with the expectation of failure – in that way Belinelli was a good fit for our team – another “lovable loser” on a roster designed to overachieve by finishing .500. To be honest I’m just a bit disappointed that he is gone – but I’m sure I will get over it by the time the season starts.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
Nice piece man
In expiring deals that we can use before the deadline, we’ve got Claxton and his $5,209,454 to go with George’s $1,600,000. In the likely event that Nellie and Riley do not decide to pull the trigger on Acie Law’s 4th year, you can tack on another $2,216,160. That’s $9,025,614 in expiring contracts to dangle, which on its own could be swapped for up to $11,382,017 for incoming players. Package that with Brandan Wright, or do not exercise his option as well, and we can bring back $14.7mil in contracts to a team simply looking to shed salary fast. Those are not inconsequential numbers.
Bingo.
Although I’d be pretty surprised if the Warriors didn’t pick up Wright’s option (which they should), so it’s probably closer to that $11.4 million number you quoted.
Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!"
by Atma Brother ONE on Jul 31, 2009 9:49 AM PDT reply actions
Of course, we can pick up his option and trade him or trade him before his option would come due. In the first case, another team wouldn’t get the expiring part, but it still works for salary matching and they get a player who is young and has shown some promise. In the latter, it’s giving the other team the option to have the
I somewhat wonder why they didn’t do this with Belinelli if in fact he was on the chopping block and there could be a bigger deal down the road. My guess is that the “we could have gotten more for him” is false, that really there wasn’t much interest in a guy who got 1122 minutes in his first two years without doing much to suggest that this was an oversight by the coaches. My guess was that they regarded Belinelli as worthless and got that sort of reaction from other GMs, and as such, it’s about money and the thought was that if the choice comes down to worthless that you pay for and worthless for free, you take the latter.
by jae on Jul 31, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yup, this quote says it all
In expiring deals that we can use before the deadline, we’ve got Claxton and his $5,209,454 to go with George’s $1,600,000. In the likely event that Nellie and Riley do not decide to pull the trigger on Acie Law’s 4th year, you can tack on another $2,216,160. That’s $9,025,614 in expiring contracts to dangle, which on its own could be swapped for up to $11,382,017 for incoming players. Package that with Brandan Wright, or do not exercise his option as well, and we can bring back $14.7mil in contracts to a team simply looking to shed salary fast. Those are not inconsequential numbers.
Thanks for summing it up, jae. I guess we’ll see if it pans out this way. If not, at least the W’s will shed those contracts by next year.
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Jul 31, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
This trade can only mean one thing.
Kirilenko.
You see, my friends, the Warriors have become a team of dopplegangers. Jackson and Morrow look exactly alike. Now, the Warriors have gone out of their way to get Maggette’s doppleganger, Devean George.
I know you’re saying, Kirilenko? Where does he fit in to this?
Well, if you’re really asking that, you’re stupid. That guy looks pretty much like Biedrins with a hook nose.
jingle The more you know.
This message has been brought to you by Tim Kawakami.
From your lips to Riley’s and O’Connor’s ears.
And don’t discount the name doppelgänger factor…
Stephen Curry / Stephen Jackson
Anthony Morrow / Anthony Rudolf
Andris Biedrins / Andrei Kirilenko (not enough of a Russian/Latvian expert to know, but I’d guess that’s the same name)
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 31, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Our expirings (including Wright, whether or not he’s actually extended and will be an expiring) plus Azubuike for Kirilenko makes the money work.
They would likely have to cut some, but that’s not really that big an issue. Waiving Claxton, Law, and George when you don’t expect them to play? If it’s really about shedding longer term salary, that’s a sacrifice NBA clubs make.
jae
I meant this post for here.
You been drinking the nellie brew I see:
Let me ask you, we had a 10 mill exception from the JRich trade that Nelson wanted, and we all thought this was a move to get somone that would help us get over the hump, we thought Chris/Don seen something in BWright and had a plan for the 10 mill.
So what came of that deal ? were now ready to give away Wright and we didn’t even take advantage of the 10 mill exception? you want me to spell it out for you.
I-N-C-O-M-P-E-T-E-N-C-E
So the next year we miss the playoff’s and lose Baron and JRich, the team blew up, now were dumping our first round picks for nothing. and you or one of your boys takes down my fan posts because I am exposeing this nonsense?
I been a fan a lot longer than most anyone here, I have hardly missed a game since 1974, and many of those were on the radio with Bill King, I left the forrest a long time ago and can see the trees very well.
by ForestGrump on Jul 31, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Huh? You meant this post for hear? As a response to some thought that Utah would cut players if they traded for expiring? How exactly does this fit here? (Please, don’t answer the rhetorical question.)
I’m sorry, but your post is damn near incomprehensible. If I’ve been “drinking the nellie brew” (which is doubtful), I think you’ve just been drinking, and it’s a little early for that. (Well, save bloody marys and mimosas, acceptable pre-noon consumables, though generally only on weekends.) You’re spewing vitriol without, it appears, any real grasp on what others are saying. Sober up and think for a moment. Read what others are saying rather than what you wish they were saying.
I didn’t take down your fan post, but if its “quality” in any way resembled your post above, I suspect the removal was soundly deserved.
Wasn't sure you could trade for more players than allowed and then cut them
Of course then we would have very few players left, but enough to meet the minimum.
GSW, now with 8 players only!
God, that’d be beautiful. The minutes could lay out like this:
PG: Monta Ellis (32), Stephen Curry (16)
SG: Stephen Jackson (32), Anthony Morrow (16)
SF: Andrei Kirilenko (18), Corey Maggette (30)
PF: Anthony Randolph (30), Andrei Kirilenko (18)
C: Andris Biedrins (30), Ronny Turiaf (18)
That is a nine-man rotation I could get behind.
by onlxn on Jul 31, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That’s a lineup that has serious potential to not suck.
except for the point guards? porous me shoot first guys?
" I hear the ancient footsteps like the motion of the sea
Sometimes I turn, there's someone there, other times it's only me
I am hanging in the balance of the reality of man
Like every sparrow falling, like every grain of sand."
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 31, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I didn’t say a lineup that could do some damage. I said “not suck.” Having a position that’s manned by a score first guy who is at least good at it becomes the lineup’s biggest problem. Sure, you don’t win a championship, but you don’t go into most games thinking that it’s an automatic L either.
I’ll reserve judgement on Curry’s ability/willingness to defend and distribute until I’ve seen it.
+1
but the more we talk about how perfect that potential trade is the angrier I’ll be when it doesn’t happen.
Thing A
True. There haven’t even been any hints that Utah’s looking to move him in a long time… it’s all just fond fever-dreaming on our parts.
plus we know sjax would play 42 not 32
Unless nellie wakes up.
Haha.
Yet another GSoM thread hijacked (partly by me) and turned into “Why the Heck Don’t We Get AK-47?” Still, now that jae has amended our proposed package to include ‘Buike rather than Maggs, it’s even harder to understand why the Jazz wouldn’t go for it.
1. AK-47 and Sloan have long been rumored to hate each other
2. Several sites have said the Jazz would love to dump Kirilenko’s contract (too lazy to track them down now, but IIRC they were more somewhat reputable than fanshots or tweets)
3. With Boozer all but gone, they can’t realistically be thinking GFIN
4. With Maggs out of the trade, it’d be a near-total lifting of a 2/$35M albatross, which would allow them to start building around Deron and Millsap a year earlier than they would if they held onto Kirilenko.
A bit of a risk from our perspective (for one thing, we might lose promising GSoM rookie Missing Barry), but I think we’ve enumerated the ways in which AK-47 fits our team to a tee. He’s apparently been working out like a fiend this offseason (at the Peak Performance Project in — wait for it — California); and it wouldn’t at all surprise me to see him return to near peak levels with a move from SloanBall to Nellieball.
On your proposed minutes allotment: I’d love to give five more minutes to Morrow and take five from Maggs (with Jack sliding over to SF for 5 mins.) but that’s probably not very realistic. We might want to add to the mix a “beefy” backup PF (sorry, jae) for 5-10 minutes a game, but we can work out stuff like that once the main pieces are in place.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 31, 2009 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That guy looks pretty much like Biedrins with a hook nose face.
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jul 31, 2009 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
The real question is..
The real question is: was this the maximum GSW thought they could get or were they pressed into dealing Bellinelli at this time?
It sure seems Toronto values Belli highly. If given time, GSW could have extracted more out of Toronto for Bellinelli. Brian Colangelo says Belli is going to be key player for Toronto this year.
So did the Warriors not want to have Belli as a distraction because we weren’t going to give him an extention? For sure we were not going to extend Belli prior to the start of the season.
Did Cohen dictate a lower bdget in the last few weeks? We heard about the 14 man roster, now this move. Given the need to tighten budgets, Belli’s value to GSW in trades in now two fold. Money and talent. And they chose money.
Did Rliey really want George to play?
Probably a “yes” on all the reasons above.
Given the tight economic times, my guess is Riley needs to pull off the next trade with the following pre-requsites:
1) Dump short term salary or at least come out even short term. (OK to take longer term money.) I would be surprised is any trade adds more than 1.6 to 2.0 million dollars to our salaries for 2009-2010.
2) Get a better front court player
Package Maggette with expirings and...
we can take down just about any player in the league. Potenially we could get an all star and another team would pick up a 20 pts scorer as a partial replacement plus shed 10 mill next year. Not too bad of a deal for a team that wants to move in a new direction. Just thinking out loud here but the warriors are pretty well positioned. Nice trading blocks or cap space in 2010. Anyone know when we’ll have to caugh up cash to keep Randolph and Morrow? That would help estimate what lenght of contract out FO would be looking to take back in any potential trades, helping us predict thier moves.
Who will take maggs contract in this economy?
I guess the clips have bigs they want to move, but would they really take on another bad contract?
A Riley quote about Marco's trade
Belinelli trade numbers compute
“I feel like Marco wasn’t going to play too much because we’re making the commitment to play Morrow,” Warriors general manager Larry Riley said. “We’re ready to commit to him. … Having known that we were not going to (pick up Belinelli’s option by the Oct. 31 deadline), we decided to take the opportunity to get a player back who maybe can contribute. We thought that was a reasonable way to go.”
by IQofaWarrior on Jul 31, 2009 12:32 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
we decided to take the opportunity to get a player back who maybe can contribute.
I think he meant “we decided to take the opportunity to get a player back who won’t contribute, but someone else it picking up the tab for while preserving our opportunity to use him as an expiring deal.” Those words can be confusing.
Haha
Thanks, jae, You are the PR unspinner.
by IQofaWarrior on Jul 31, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
yea, I’m just not really sure why they even bother wrapping in up in that “PR code.” jae’s version actually makes me more comfortable with the trade. Riley’s version makes me a little bit uneasy as it conjures up visions of George getting 15 minutes a game that should go to Randolph and Wright.
Thing A
George getting any playing time at all worries me. If there was a way to cut him and still preserve his contract as a trading chip, I’d feel much, much more comfortable. I’d settle for a throwaway line like “veteran presence in the locker room” over “maybe can contribute”. Maybe implies he won’t, but it also implies they haven’t completely ruled out that they’ll give it a try.
it's not always just PR
in all fairness, to George not Riley, you simply cannot welcome a vet to your club that way unless you are trying to sow seeds of discontent before he even arrives. … the guy iss going to end up playing some minutes some time
we don’t need to pee in the well
Too true. Unless he’s totally oblivious (and with pro athletes that’s not unheard of) Devean knows that he’s really just a bargaining chip at this point, but he could come in as a professional or come in and stir things up. He could talk about the rings he’s got and be an example to the kids in practice or talk about the rings he’s got and tell the kids that they should get off the sinking ship. I don’t know if he’s got anything left in the tank defensively, but I haven’t ever heard rumors that he dogs it. He has the opportunity to be a good example on a team that sorely needs one.
as long as the “maybe contribute” part of that means “probably won’t contribute unless we get hit with as many injuries as we did last year” then I’m ok with that.
Thing A
Hack-a-shaq
We only have 2 chances to do that this season, so that’s only 2 games George should be on the floor, not counting blowouts. I gotz no problemo with that.
by IQofaWarrior on Jul 31, 2009 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow, so much hate for trading a backup role player and so little time.
I know I’m coming in late but…
I haven’t really commented on this because at first even though I thought it was a little bone headed, it wasn’t the trade that broke my fan boy back.
But after thinking about this and seeing all the emotion poured into this got me thinking a little more about this then I would have liked, and this is what I’m hoping has happened.
The trainers and coaching staff that is working with Ellis have seen improvements in the areas that will make him a buyable point guard so having Marco around didn’t make any sense in that regard and that what they saw from Morrow in the summer league told them that he has improved his game in areas that Marco was said to have an advantage in, (passing & ball handling). If even one of those things pans out then horary for us, we had a log jam at the guard spot and that gives the coaching staff one less thing to have to worry about.
It also tells me that they weren’t too hot on any improvements that Marco might have made thus far in the off season so was the odd man out.
And think of it this way, at least Devean can give us 5 good fouls going up against the Shaq’s and Amare’s (for free) without giving up the "and 1".
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
Stop being naive, WE ARE NOT using those expiring contracts for ANTHING
It’s a tease.
Look at the payroll next summer. Once you subtract Acie Law we have $54M committed in 2010. That doesn’t count our draft picks(atleast another $2M) and doesn’t include a Morrow extension(starting around $5M you have to think). This puts us around $61M. The luxury tax is supposed to drop to $63M next year.
We have no wiggle room to trade expiring contracts for a long term deal this summer. ESPECIALLY a max contract guy like AK47. Quit dreaming.
how about renting Boozer then?
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Jul 31, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
No Trades
August 26th!!! You really think that there will be some sort of trades at that time. I will be suprised if any teams pulls the plug on a veteran during that period when free agency is down to the end. Regretfully, I have to say that while other teams are picking and choosing players through free agency our beloved team seems to be picking up players whom salaries are either expiring or payed by other clubs, so what does that tell me, Cohan is a cheap owner who doesn’t care about this team wins and loses. We need a beefy PF who can run the floor, good rebounder and can play low post game. Without one, Warriors will struggle against top 8 teams and bottom teams like Grizzles. I also think we need to move Wright since Nellie seems not to like his game. Here is a player I think we should pursue, Shane Battier, defensive minded player, very high IQ, can knock the three and Houston seems willing to get rid of for expiring contracts. How about Wright and Claxton for Shane? Wright would provide depth as frontcourt player, we get a starter who can help Jackson in defense. What you guys think?
Waaaarroirs
Stupid trade, now I have to throw out all my Belinelli gear:
All done.
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jul 31, 2009 6:24 PM PDT reply actions
The positive upbeat vibe in here is almost unbearable.
by crab dribble cocktail on Jul 31, 2009 6:52 PM PDT reply actions
Here’s what I do not like about your argument. You are assuming a constant where one does not have to be. Using “he isn’t going to play anyway” kind of reminds me of the team needs argument when it is draft season. If he has the talent, he’ll fit into the plans. And that’s what I don’t get. Sure, he may or may not have the talent (I thought he was cut short when he was starting to show glimpses of coming into his own in what was essentially his rookie season), but at the very least, he has more potential to have talent and fit into the plans than George. I’m not so sure Nelson expected Randolph to fit into this season’s plans, but then injuries occurred last year, Randolph got his shot and one Olympic camp later he figures to get a lot of playing time this year.
Right now, the Warriors have a lot of might be good/great players, but no provens (besides players like Maggette/Jackson who are proven, but are old and probably do not fit in the long term plans. Maybe Turiaf is a young proven, but he is a young proven reserve.) People seem to agree that while the Warriors have plenty of depth, they lack the powerful 5 or 6 players or elite 2 or 3 players (or LeBron) that the contenders have. I feel this trade limits our options, though it may only be slightly, of finding our top players. Going by stats, one could argue Belinelli has less of a chance of blossoming than some of the other players on the team, but I can say with reasonable confidence that he has more of a chance of doing so than Devean George. With only 1 year under his belt (and I personally really like him), Morrow is an unproven player who could have had a fluke year. Curry has no experience and is completely unproven. Ellis is a proven 2 but if we are trying to put him as a point guard he is unproven there. With no guarantees, why not increase our chances of finding our long term, quality player backcourt? If Belinelli sucks this season (because to me this seems like his and Wright’s sophomore campaigns, though it could be argued that Wright is in his first year), then he won’t play, and it won’t take away from anyone’s playing time. If he shines, then he will take away playing time, but for good reason.
For this trade, if it is a move that sets up another trade, then I am neutral on it until we can evaluate the next trade. But I don’t think the Warriors are a good enough team with enough high quality players where we can shorten the end of our bench for financial flexibility that in the past we have not capitalized on (or if we have, not wisely). To be fair, this is a new GM, so maybe it’s not fair to not trust him. But it is the same ownership, so when players are sacrificed for money, does that money go towards improving the team or the owner’s well-being?
And yes, you could say it is better to trade a player too early rather than too late. But if we wait until the trade deadline and realize Belinelli is a bust (and isn’t he an expiring too?), how much worse could we do than getting a player who will (or at least should) not play meaningful minutes and some money for the organization not to spend on the on-court product?
If Belinelli sucks this season (because to me this seems like his and Wright’s sophomore campaigns, though it could be argued that Wright is in his first year), then he won’t play, and it won’t take away from anyone’s playing time. If he shines, then he will take away playing time, but for good reason.
The problem was that a contract decision needed to be made prior to the start of the season. They could pick up the option on him for another year at a not huge, but not inconsequential salary of a few million but they couldn’t wait and see how he did and then pick up the option. If they had made up their mind, and that appears to be the case, then he was an expiring contract, nothing more. If they did not renew and he proved to be great, they wouldn’t realistically be able to keep him; they wouldn’t have a realistic chance to use him in a sign-and-trade. He would be an unrestricted free agent without Bird rights. To really see if he had any promise this year, they had to keep him on the books for this year and the year after. It appears that the Warriors made that decision. They decided that he didn’t have enough promise to warrant picking up year 4. As such, getting rid of him now or later really didn’t matter.
(and isn’t he an expiring too?)
Was he an expiring too? Well, maybe, but as I mentioned above in this post and in the original story (please, re-read it or read it for the first time — I really did cover this), he would be an expiring only if we didn’t bother with the 4th year option, a decision that couldn’t be made at the trade deadline but had to be made before the season started. And if he was going to be an expiring, he really has the same value as George. This is critical. With the option exercised he’s on a two year deal. Without it, he’s an expiring who we couldn’t keep even if he does well.
Really, the only difference is that George is an expiring who Cohan doesn’t have to pay. There are minor bits about how he could theoretically be used in a sign and trade next season where Belinelli as an expiring couldn’t. Those are probably irrelevant, but maybe not. The real issue was that with the decision made that he’s not part of the plans, they arne’t paying for him for a year where he wasn’t going to play (and if he did, it wouldn’t matter if he did well since he’d be out the door at the end anyhow). It was about not spending $1.6mil on a player who they didn’t think was worth the investment anymore. That’s it.
I don't like it
We just have a baby crying now. URGH! All fail..
by justinleagueheroes on Jul 31, 2009 9:06 PM PDT reply actions
LOL@OUR FRONT OFFICE
Pulling the trigger on a bottom of the barrell offer with 3 months to go in the offseason.
What was the rush?? Were they worried DEVEAN GEORGE wouldn’t be on the table in October? LOL
Colangelo let the whole world know he coveted Belinelli, they tried to get him on draft day 2007, and during his rookie year, and last year… MULLY was smart enough not to give in to the crap offers. So what happens? As soon as Mully gets pushed aside, BC gets Larry the Donkey Riley on the phone and we give away Belinelli for Devean frikken George.
LMAO
And jae, sam, and the rest of the herd are defending this deal. hahaha
What was the rush?? Were they worried DEVEAN GEORGE wouldn’t be on the table in October? LOL
It appears that you still didn’t read my story. The “rush” was that if they want to do another deal, this makes it possible to package George for a player before training camp starts. Seriously, read to achieve.
And jae, sam, and the rest of the herd are defending this deal. hahaha
Sam has been pretty consistent in the “so what” camp from what I gather. So have I. If you take that we’re defending the deal, I suggest you work on your reading comprehension skills. They are most certainly lacking.
Really, if this deal had happened, but not announced and the training camp roster didn’t have Belinelli on it, I’m not sure I would have noticed for a few days. “Let’s see. Curry’s new. Ellis is back. I hear that they’re going to use Morrow and Jax as their off guards most of the time. Azubuike can play there too. Wait, wasn’t there some other guard on the roster?”
by jae on Aug 1, 2009 3:39 AM PDT up reply actions
That reason is WEAK.
Had we been smart and NOT done the trade, ANY trade done between now and October, Belinelli can can be used instead of George, same damn salary. WITHOUT the trade restrictions.
And have you ever heard of a 3-way??? Toronto gets Belinelli, the 3rd team gets George(I’m just gonna play along and pretend the other 28 teams would rather have George than Belinelli LMAO). If nothing comes about, do the original trade in October. Either way Toronto can get Belinelli, they are giving up nothing I’m pretty sure they would be willing to cooperate.
by Bob on Aug 1, 2009 3:52 AM PDT up reply actions
And have you ever heard of a 3-way???
Not since college.
by jae on Aug 1, 2009 4:08 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
What sort of 3-team trade are you actually envisioning? How does this actually help the situation? Unless you really do think that another team would rather have George, why does getting another team in that doesn’t want him either make this somehow different.
The notion that this trade can wait is an entirely one-sided view. It assumes that if Riley and company took a pass on the offer that Toronto would not go looking for another deal with someone else. It assumes that Toronto’s lone target was Belinelli and, if we held out, they’d sit and wait as well. We do not know that the offer would still be on the table because we do not know if Toronto would shop for another guard. We don’t know that the original deal would be there.
Yes. If we held Belinelli until October, he’d have almost the same contract value for salary matching with potential expirings as George. He would also cost about $1.6 mil for the upcoming season and was not in the team’s long term plans to say the least. I realize most fans don’t seem to care about this. I don’t really care either. I see none of the money. But from a business perspective, can you see, even slightly how management might rather pay nothing for a player who wasn’t going to play that they had decided was not in their long term plans than to shell out $1.6 mil for a player who wasn’t going to play that they had decided was not in their long term plans?
by jae on Aug 3, 2009 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
jae
I don’t want to speak for Bob, other to say that there are two sides to every coin, and your position is to the extreme of Bob’s and others.
I for one was very vocal and expressing my displeasure with the FO, I never directed my comments to any of the posters, for that I have been heckled to death, for my typos and punctuation and for even expressing such strong emotion over this trade, but that’s what being a passionate fan is all about at times, only after being belittled did I respond back in kind, it’s all on record, I searched it from top to bottom after I read your e-mail.
I think I now can say I over reacted, due to being burned so bad in the past by management, and by almost the same crew, but I was not directing that at any poster.
You guys have a way of picking on people and it rubs them the wrong way, a little restraint on your guys part would have allowed some of us to come to grips with this, but instead the heckling caused it to heighten.
My apologies if I personally offended you in any way, that was never my intention.
Grump
The below posting was authored by hardcore. It was regrettably hidden because it appeared after a post by another poster that was removed for crossing over a line of vulgarity and civil decency that warranted its removal. Keeping the initial post around served only to legitimize it in a way that I do not feel is in any way helpful to the health of the board. Hardcore’s post was an unfortunate casualty of this as posts threaded after one removed do not appear even if they are not themselves “hidden” or removed.
The following is the full text of hardcore’s text.
there are plenty of reasons
agreed: there are good and plenty of reasons to distrust GSW competence after not 15, but over 30 years of relative failure compared to the top 50% of franchises in the league – you and others have chronicled those reasons admirably and with conviction
agreed: there is also good reason to be annoyed with fanposts being removed & this site has some fixation with spelling that is almost monkish, not to mention sometimes hypocritical… and there is an informal cadre of mods and regular posters here who have defined a culture of sorts on this site
however, none of us are stooges for the FO – certainly if you’ve read enough here you will realize commentators and mods alike on GSoM are fairly ruthless toward the FO (and each other sometimes) and there are reasons to defend this trade even if one is skeptical of our FO …
there is one reason to not like this trade: that you liked Marco’s potential; however to argue that he didn’t get a chance is fallacy – he did, & he shined for a short while, but overall he was just ok and we have plenty of just ok players who play the same position… there is reason to prefer Marco over Morrow (ball handling) but so to the reverse (shooting & rebounding) … fwiw we may well find out if he can perform better in a different situation – and if he does, you would have a reason to crow over it!
and there are reasons to argue this trade didn’t need to be made now: we could have waited until Oct, however several of us have read and replied to your points (some of us who don’t always agree or are part of the cadre) – there would have been consequences to not making this trade now – the Tor offer may not have been bested in Oct, we would not have been able to move George’s contract prior to season opening had we waited that long, and/or the offer might not have been left on the table for us to choose as Tor would have had to make their own decisions between now and then …
the reasons to make this deal now were to save money and still have the ability to use George’s contract in a deal prior to the start of the season – we could have used Marco that way, but we wouldn’t have been playing with house money (well, technically Toronto’s money). But you know that, because jae and others including myself have been articulating that consistently, and you have consistently discounted those reasons… or not read them?
agree: there are reasons to argue that these deals are not part of a plan to improve the team but only to cut costs… in a previous response I’d pointed out to you that other websites agree with your pov and If that turns out to be the case, we’re all going to be pissed and disappointed… the truth of the matter is NONE of us "knows" what the FO plan is, and to your point, if there even is a plan. You don’t "know" there isn’t a plan either, other than what your experience tells you. What some of us see in this summer’s moves however is an apparent effort to clear the log-jam of guards and create some expiring contracts that could be used in deals. Will those deals get made? Who knows, I’m skeptical too. But one thing’s for certain: unless those deals were made in advance we wouldn’t have been prepared to make a significant deal later. That, to me, justifies these deals – but we won’t know until later whether they come to fruition. YOU are right, they weren’t able to make use of JRich TPE and that fried me like toast too, and I’m with you in being skeptical.
You have every reason to be passionate, skeptical, and critical, in fact that’s appealing to me and we’re alike in some ways, but as for your homophobic joke (?) at the end, well, imo there’s really not much justification for that… if I was running the site you’d’ve gotten warned strongly or banned for that, not for phonetics or frenzied fanatical rants in comments or fanposts.
The trade
We send maggette, wright, cj watson claxton george and the expiring contracts to utah for rent for a year boozer and kirolinko……Utah gets a scorer in maggette possible starter in wright a good back up point guard in watson we get the PF we needed and a all around player in kirolenko who can play defense rebound and pass …..it makes a lot of sense. both teams are happy with this trade we give them maggette for kirolenko contracts.
yea I’ve suggested a similar trade in another thread with Turiaf and Maggette going to Utah while a bunch of expiring contracts and a useful player like Wright go to a team like Memphis or OKC that has cap room, this way Utah gets out from under the luxury tax immediately while adding a scoring wing and useful bench big who isn’t as much of a gamble as Wright.
Thing A
we dont trade Turiaf
No way do you trade this guy…..he’s the ultimate teammate the lakers regret letting him go another nice move that mully made …it seems that nellie is trying to get rid of mully players….i would still like to know who pulled the jr richardson deal ? And are we forgetting that when the warriors played chicken with baron and lost they paniced and gave maggette a almost untradeable contract? they also offered elton brand and gilbert arenas 100 million dollar contracts to guys coming of surgerys? and i dont believe it was mully that made those offers it was rowland where did they find this guy?
Jae
I have saved every post you have deleted trying to cover up your tracks,
Your abusing your power, You both need to offer me an official apology or I’m going to take everything to the SB nation and show them how you guys are abusing your mod positions.
The other forms might be interested in seeing how you guys are running this site.
I am not trying “cover my tracks”. I am trying to avoid a prolonged battle and purge the board of what has become an exceptionally large number of posts you have put up recently that appear directed entirely at me that do not further a discussion.
by jae on Aug 3, 2009 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Although you gotta admit...
He sure pads the the stats when it comes to “comment count”. If I was the type of guy that looked at the amount of comments a diary gets, I’d try to insult Marco somewhere in it or a popular Raptor – that would automatically get me 100+ comments (even though Forrest may account for half the posts).
Hello, My name is Ricky & I am a like-a-holic...
I just can't help it sometimes...
Whenever I see a like button on the screen, I feel compelled to press it...
I need a hug...
by Tim&ChrisBurger on Aug 3, 2009 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions
You both need to offer me an official apology or I’m going to take everything to the SB nation and show them
Haha, Like he hasn’t heard that line before.
" I hear the ancient footsteps like the motion of the sea
Sometimes I turn, there's someone there, other times it's only me
I am hanging in the balance of the reality of man
Like every sparrow falling, like every grain of sand."
by Skeptic con Urquell on Aug 3, 2009 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions
DUDE...
SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!
Beyond Golden State of Design... and than some!
http://www.tonypsd.blogspot.com/
by Tony.psd on Aug 3, 2009 11:18 PM PDT reply actions 4 recs
LOL, Im so late!
Was gone for a week taking care of personal things and come back seeing all this drama I missed out on! LOL
Beyond Golden State of Design... and than some!
http://www.tonypsd.blogspot.com/
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