Interested in Boozer for Maggette?
by clarkpojo on Jul 4, 2009 10:27 PM PDT
208 comments
Hey Golden State fans,
Several Jazz fans are chomping at the bit to trade newly opted-in Carlos Boozer. Mostly because they are just tired of his selfish antics and desire to get paid more money. Jazz fans can turn quickly on a player who doesn't show absolute loyalty. The hot trade idea in Jazzville is Carlos Boozer for Richard Hamilton. I am not excited about the idea and would much rather trade Boozer for Corey Maggette and one of your young power forwards like Branden Wright. Is this a trade that would interest the Golden State Warriors and their fans. My guess is yes, thank you. After all, Boozer would not only give you a low post presence, but some salary cap relief.
I am guessing at this point that the Stoudemire deal isn't going to happen after all. I don't see the Suns budging on not requesting Curry and I definitely don't see the Warriors budging on not including him. So would Boozer be a good consolation prize. It would cost you a lot less and I could see Boozer and Biedrins being a really nice complement to each other down low. So let me know what you think. I am just curious what you guys think of it and how bad of a trade it would be. And for which team.
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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The only part I don't like
is that it could take minutes away from Anthony Randolph’s growth. But why would the Jazz want to take on Maggette’s contract? Why wouldn’t the Jazz just hold on for one more season and complete Boozer’s contract and have more money to work with afterwards?
by IQofaWarrior on Jul 4, 2009 10:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
sshhh!!
and we could expiriment with Randolph at 3. Or we could let Boozer walk after the season.
by ZaMzAm FiRe on Jul 4, 2009 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what Im thinkin
if we could do this trade,it would be PERFECT.
Pros-
1. We get to get rid of Maggette’s contract
2.We get to rent-a-Boozer[contract expires next year]
3.Can teach Randolph a few tricks while he’s in the bay
4.Provides some down-low banging
Cons-
1.Wright,a young talent…GONE
2.We’ll lose our 6th man of the year
Its time for a change...
by RunNdGun on Jul 5, 2009 2:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maggette's contract is a giant albatross
Good luck with trying to move Maggette. No way in hell another NBA team is gonna take on Maggette’s $10m/yr contract especially when the salary caps are shrinking in the upcoming years. Asiah Thomas is no longer in the NBA, so there’s no other dumb GM for us to unload.
by anhsupra on Jul 11, 2009 1:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We kept hearing about Randolph playing at the 3 last season...
If we were to get Amare, we’d be in the same situation. Randolph can split time between the 3 and 4.
by Hatalles on Jul 5, 2009 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NO. Randolph is a 4. At least for now there is no reason why we should be looking to move him out to the wing.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
w/o Biedrins, Amare probably would have ended up playing the C position.
by homer simpson on Jul 5, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would do it
Would you guys take Biedrins and Magggette for Kirelinko and Boozer?
by dubzfan on Jul 4, 2009 10:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Would you guys take Biedrins and Magggette for Kirelinko and Boozer?
and Curr-bury for D-ron? and Rudolf for Milsap??
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 4, 2009 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
rather have AR
DUDE! I coulda flipped the warriors for the freaking Jazz !!
Now wheres the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers?
I noticed there's so many of them
and there's really not that many of us.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 5, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t do that. You’d be giving up Biedrins for a guy who will walk after next season.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
now that's terrible
Biedrins for Kirilenko? Please
by eastbayglory on Jul 5, 2009 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the Jazz would do that.
It would be taking on too many long term contracts.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
by clarkpojo on Jul 5, 2009 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Love It
We get rid of Maggs’ contract, we get a legit PF, Randolph doesn’t lose time because Boozer will be injured a lot anyway, and we don’t have to get rid of Beans. is there any part of this that isn’t beautiful?
by bradyk2 on Jul 4, 2009 11:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i would but
who will play our dominant center?
by Adobo Ranger on Jul 4, 2009 11:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I wish you were the actual Jazz GM.
Gerald Madkins.
by gorrillas on Jul 5, 2009 12:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
A front court of
Beans, AR, and Boozer would be deadly…
Gerald Madkins.
by gorrillas on Jul 5, 2009 12:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
AR’s jumpshot will hopefully get more consistent over time. But that’s why we’ve got all the outside shooters in our backcourt to even things out.
Gerald Madkins.
by gorrillas on Jul 5, 2009 1:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
all those outside shooters like our likely starting backcourt: Monta Ellis and Stephen Jackson?
No, I see what you’re saying though, I’d just be a whole lot more comfortable with Randolph as the first big off the bench, he could play next to either Boozer or Biedrins and I don’t think it would be all that difficult to get him 20-25 minutes a game to start the year without more than 5 of them coming at SF.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 1:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yo clarkpojo
I’d love the Boozer trade, but I doubt you guys would actually make that deal. What about the Maggette+Wright+Claxton’s expiring (and possibly insured) contract+Belinelli for AK47 deal that has been kicked around here lately? Are Jazz fans too attached to AK to like that deal?
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 12:52 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I am surprised that you guys feel that this trade is so one-sided in your favor.
I don’t know what Jazz management is thinking, but I know that the number one trade in Jazzland right now, besides Boozer for Bosh, is Carlos Boozer for Richard Hamilton. I don’t get that deal, but for my money, I would rather have Maggette and Brandan Wright 10 times out of ten than Richard Hamilton. Boozer’s value to Utah fans is very low right now coming off an injury plagued season and some very stupid things he has said.
I think in general Jazz fans are more loyal to Andrei Kirilenko than Carlos Boozer, but with that said, I think most Jazz fans want to get rid of AK, if they can get some decent players and some cap relief next season. I would make that trade also. But like you guys mentioned, I am not the Jazz GM. Or am I?
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
by clarkpojo on Jul 5, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t get that deal, but for my money, I would rather have Maggette and Brandan Wright 10 times out of ten than Richard Hamilton.
If you can get Wright some minutes then I probably agree with you.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
suffice it to say that it seems many GSW fans have an irrational hate for Corey Maggete.
by homer simpson on Jul 5, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree w/ you. Hamilton makes no sense.
I think it seems one-sided in our end, because we desperately want a strong PF and have a plethora of 2’s and 3’s. We want to get rid of Maggette’s contract and would be at a loss of what to do with Wright if we were to get that veteran 4 through a trade.
by Hatalles on Jul 5, 2009 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
on fitz and brooks the other day there was this expert who covers the NBA, I forget his name, but they talked about the possibility of a boozer trade and bob brought up maggette for boozer and the expert laughed. He said that he has talked to a lot of people around the league and maggette with his contract and the type of player he is (never passes) is virtually untradeable at this point. there isn’t a team in the league that would touch him.
by Agent Zero on Jul 5, 2009 1:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
True
Maggette’s deal is unmovable. We’re dreaming if we think otherwise. I heard the interview on Fitz and Brook as well and it sounds like the Jazz are going to stand pat, take the luxury tax hit for one year, and then let Boozer walk. That’d be a more economic move than taking on another long contract. Why would they want to wrap up 3 more additional years at 30 million for Maggette? No way.
by eastbayglory on Jul 5, 2009 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They would take Maggette IF they could move Kirilenko
His contract is what’s killing them. Now would we consider a Maggette, Speedy, Belinelli (or Acie law) 4 Kirilenko who is due 34 million over next 2 seasons?
by tafkasam on Jul 5, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
absolutely. I’d throw Wright into that deal too.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, most NBA experts are wrong often. No one thought Zach Randolph was tradeable three trades ago.
But here is the thing with Maggette and the Jazz. The Jazz are the most unselfish team in the league. They lead the league in assists per game almost every year. But they need scorers and go to guys that aren’t the point guard. I don’t think Boozer is a go to guy as much as many people do, but seriously, Deron Williams takes and makes all of our game winners and such.
Maggette has issues, but the Jazz have pursued him two different times. And San Antonio has pursued him once. Maggette is a great player, but he can’t be your number one option I don’t think. On the Jazz, he would be, necessarily. I think he fits in well with the Jazz as a second option or a guy off the bench.
And as far as contracts go. I would rather have Maggette’s $37 million than Hamilton’s $50 million. In fact, $10 million a year isn’t too much for someone who scores 18 points a game.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
by clarkpojo on Jul 5, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one thought Zach Randolph was tradeable three trades ago.
List of players actually untradeable <<< list of players writers and fans label as “untradeable.”
by jae on Jul 5, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, most NBA experts are wrong often. No one thought Zach Randolph was tradeable three trades ago.
+1, Z-Bo’s contract is probably a little bit better than Maggette’s but he’s not any better on the defensive end and Maggette doesn’t come with the “often out of shape” or “serious locker room cancer” tags.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or nearly as many DUI's.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
by kenntoe on Jul 5, 2009 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Z. Randolph has one big factor in his favor
He’s a 20 ppg PF. No matter how poor his defense, work ethic etc are, someone will ALWAYS take a gamble on a Big who can score that consistently. There just aren’t many of them.
by tafkasam on Jul 5, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where as scoring wings are a dime a dozen
by tafkasam on Jul 5, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wings who score as efficiently as Maggette or get other teams in foul trouble like he does are not.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
true
But then you consider his contract which is fair in terms of yearly salary but he has 4 years left. And you consider his injury history….
Also yes he scores efficiently, but he is awful passer and a blackhole. He is best in the 6th man role, but do you really pay that guy 9-10 mil a season?
by tafkasam on Jul 5, 2009 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh I agree with you, its a terrible contract for all the reasons you’ve stated….I’m just saying that if you put an enticing young player like Wright and a valuable contract like Claxton’s with him and offer him for another (less) bad contract type player like Kirilenko he probably isn’t impossible to move. Eddy Curry is a bad player with a terrible contract, Maggette is a pretty good player with a bad contract. I’d feel pretty comfortable saying Curry is untradeable until he becomes an expiring, I wouldn’t say the same of Maggette.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
especially if you offer him to a team like Utah that could really, really use all the good things Maggette does.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
fair point.
But Curry only became untradeable this last season. Even in 07-08 when he declined he was still a legitimate center who scored efficiently in the post. There are always teams willing to take a risk on a big man with some skills. His issue of course is more health related
by tafkasam on Jul 5, 2009 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Curry only became untradeable this last season
You think so? I don’t know I can’t imagine any team wanting him before that either.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didnt think anyone would want Z. Randolph
Some GMs will always take a chance on big guys. Teams like Memphis, Toronto, Charlotte have very little chance of signing a free agent big man with his talent so they will readily role dice believing, they can fix him or help him achieve his potential. We’ve seen it too often
by tafkasam on Jul 5, 2009 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mag/ Wright for Boozer and Koufos
Kirilenko is inconsistent. The Jazz could use Maggette at the 2 and at the 3. Thing A is more of a Warrior hater than a Warrior fan.
by polar on Jul 5, 2009 8:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The Jazz would never make that trade. Koufous is sort of our future guy. He isn't a contract filler.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
by clarkpojo on Jul 5, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thing A is more of a Warrior hater than a Warrior fan.
show me some quotes that support that…..or are you just all pissy about the way I responded to one of your posts?
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
in order to be optimistic, optimists blind themselves towards reality. so reality equals negativity.
by homer simpson on Jul 5, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, we could keep Koufos out of this deal.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
by kenntoe on Jul 5, 2009 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is Better than the proposal for Sheed
Cause Havoc. Bring Nash in and 120 point games will be very expected
by montadaboss on Jul 5, 2009 8:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I would love to have Boozer but the Hamilton for Boozer trade makes too much sense at this point.
by bushido on Jul 5, 2009 9:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Except for the fact that Hamilton’s contract is as bad as Maggette’s and he’s (probably) only a slightly better player.
Thing C
by markdash on Jul 5, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I’m curious why Jazz fans like that idea so much. My guess: RIP HAMILTON GOTS RINGZZ!!!
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too. As stated, I think Maggette would actually fit the Jazz better than Hamilton and is cheaper.
The Jazz have enough mid range jump shooters. At least Maggette can get to the line. Hamilton is good, but fit the Piston’s so well because of the pieces around him.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
by clarkpojo on Jul 5, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea and while he is a much better defender than Maggette, his reputation there does seem to have outgrown his actual defensive ability. Plus you still have Miles, Brewer, and possibly Kirilenko (depending on the deal) to defend wings
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hamilton>Maggette
I don’t know how you can say he’s only slightly better than maggette. Hamilton is a better shooter/passer and actually defends. Maggette is no where near Hamilton’s level as a player
by bushido on Jul 5, 2009 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
He is a better “shooter” (if you mean jump shooter, not just scorer) and a better passer and a better defender. However he’s not as good of a defender as his reputation indicates, I suspect people thin of him as a very good defender simply because he played on the Pistons title teams that played outstanding defense….he was easily the weakest defensive player in that starting 5 and had a whole lot of guys who could cover his mistakes. Maggette gets to the line much, much better than Rip and is a more efficient scorer. Maggette also comes with a better contract and a talented young big in Wright. Our deal is probably better for the Jazz than the Rip deal.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Skimming this thread.
Are we proposing a trade for Boozer that includes a contract extension? OR one without, which means he’s a 12+ M expiring contract?
I actually wouldn’t mind trading for an expiring Boozer. He needs to show that he really is back to 100%. As with Amare, I seriously question whether Boozer is a max-deal type of player anyway. If he wants to resign for around say 12-13M annually, I wouldn’t be totally opposed to that (Contingent upon him successfully completing an NBA season healthy). And also unlike with Amare, the assets we’re giving up are pills easier to swallow losing. Losing B-Wright would suck, but the reward for a move like this could be substantial. But like with all great rewards, comes some serious risk.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
by kenntoe on Jul 5, 2009 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmm
I really would love this. however, i don’t think utah that stupid. they dont want to take on his contract and still hope to keep boozer.
by gsw88 on Jul 5, 2009 10:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
please
claxton’s expiring and maggette for kirilenko.
by steelekord on Jul 5, 2009 10:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I reeeeeaaaally doubt the Jazz make a Boozer or Kirilenko deal with us without Wright coming back. If we were to acquire AK or Boozer giving up Wright wouldn’t hurt much as he’d pretty much be squeezed out of the rotation entirely anyway.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
good point, but we’d get a talent upgrade at any rate. however, ak’s contract is, by many, seen as an albatross; are they really in a position to ask for young talent too? dude’s making 17 mil next year…
by steelekord on Jul 5, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea but he’s the best player in the deal and next year he’s an expiring contract, I think ehy could afford to wait at least until a better deal surfaces.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absoluteky,
he s a beast which we need for our PFS to get bettter at… RANDOLPH will only get better with other vets too
by thekiddisfresh on Jul 5, 2009 10:47 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
YES
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
by CB30 on Jul 5, 2009 10:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
HECK YES
I would trade Maggette for a pair of Boozer’s sweaty underwear
by 3Kings650 on Jul 5, 2009 11:00 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
no way
turiaf and speedy for tyson chandler
by green rain on Jul 5, 2009 11:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I personally don't think that Tyson Chandler makes your team a lot better, but I am willing to give you a chance.
Explain why trading for Tyson Chandler would be a good deal.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
by clarkpojo on Jul 5, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
we don’t have enough guys who miss large chunks of the season with nagging injuries.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jul 5, 2009 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We also don't have the best point guard in the league to get him easy lobs.
by ZaMzAm FiRe on Jul 6, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey its not like thats how he scores 90% of his buckets or anything
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 6, 2009 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This wouldn’t be a bad trade for the Warriors given that we dump major salary in the long run, and Boozer isn’t that bad if he’s healthy and motivated. Unfortunately for us, Jazz management obviously isn’t as stupid as the Warrior’s FO in making such one-sided trades.
AK-47 would be a much more useful player in Nellie’s system obviously, but if the Boozer deal is there we should take it if we’re only giving up Maggette and BW (and maybe Claxton to make salaries match).
by WYK on Jul 5, 2009 12:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
@ Thing A
Supporting quote “Maggette, Wright, Claxton, and Belinelli for AK” are you serious? That’s not close in talent/ potential or current value to the Warriors of those players. Giving up 3 significant rotation players and Claxton for a quasi-star in Kirilenko.
by polar on Jul 5, 2009 1:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
first of all don't use that stupid twitter '@' stuff, just hit the reply button
Now, that quote makes me a “Warrior hater”? Lets take a look at the deal.
AK47 is the best player in that trade by a good margin, I doubt many would dispute that.
You could view it as 3 “rotation” players but we probably have 13 “rotation” players on the roster right now and the team isn’t very good. Trading youth and depth for an upgrade in talent is exactly the sort of deal we should be looking to make.
Maggette is a pretty good player, and as a scoring wing he fills a need for Utah, but the 4 years left on his contract really hurt us. I think Kirilenko’s game is much more suited to our style of play, but even if its not we don’t lose much. Yes he’s very overpaid at 17 mil per year, but its only 2 more years which means that next offseason he would be a valuable expiring contract we could seek to trade or simply hang on to him for another year and use all that money coming off the books to lock up Randolph or pursue free agents. In short, AK at 2 years/34 mil is actually better than Maggette at 4 years for 40+ million.
Claxton’s only real value is as a trade chip, including him to make salary’s match in a deal is basically the best way we could possibly use him.
Belinelli’s numbers indicate he could probably function as something of an emergency PG and decent, backup SG. I don’t see him as ever being anything more than a 4th guard in a good team’s rotation and more likely a 5th guard type. He showed a lot of improvement last year, but if he hadn’t he’d probably be pretty close to being out of the league so lets not overrate him based on improvement.
Wright is a guy I started to appreciate a little more last year. He puts up pretty good numbers when he can get in there but both reasons for his inability to crack the lineup contribute heavily to my willingness to trade him. First of all he seems a bit injury prone…sure they do seem to be kind of fluke injuries, but its still concerning. Second Nelson doesn’t seem to love him. He would be extremely hard pressed to get any more than 12 of the 96 4/5 minutes available per game next year without an injury to one of our 3 better bigs. None of Wright, Randolph, Turiaf or Biedrins should play the 3 at all to begin next season. Kirilenko certainly could, and with his passing ability he seems like a guy Nelson would be much more likely to play.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I've dreamed about AK-47 playing Nellieball for years...
He’d be a beast. Nellie is the polar opposite (no pun intended) of Sloan, and AK has obviously struggled to adapt to Sloan’s personality and expectations. I think he’d flourish with the W’s. Not to mention that Beans+AK+AR on the floor at the same time — though skinny as hell — would be a shot-blocking fast-break nightmare against some teams…
Unfortunately, I seriously doubt this trade happens for the same reason I’m skeptical of the Suns trade: teams RARELY make significant trades within their conference, esp. with teams that they see as real competition. I think it’s safe to say that the W’s could be vying for the 8th spot next year with both the Jazz and the Suns, so I’m skeptical that either team’s management would want to make a deal that potential left it on the “losing” end (eg. if one team beats the other out of a playoff spot with the new talent).
My only concern re: AK is that his salary might throw team egos outta wack; he’d be getting paid significantly more than everyone else, and I think some guys might be jealous.
by b.radley on Jul 5, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like who?
No one is coming up for a contract extension. Unless you’re referring to Wright, Belinelli and Law in a couple years…
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
by kenntoe on Jul 5, 2009 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
seems like an easy call to me. ak can replace the bulk of both maggs and wright’s minutes (he’s a real combo forward, unlike randolph, who has the rep of a combo forward but has only shown aptitude to play the 4) and do so more effectively, while buike can make up the rest of maggs’ court time without sacrificing much in terms of production. account for the fairly likely possibility that monta and curry will be on the court together from time to time and that jack will see some time at the 3, it really doesn’t seem like we lose out on much of anything in this deal. ak’s overpaid, but it’s only for a couple more years and we escape with loads of capspace when he walks. i’d make that deal and it seems possible that the jazz would make that deal too.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jul 5, 2009 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
doesn’t Wright do the same things AK does for a portion of the cost?
by Balance on Jul 5, 2009 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that a serious post?
Kirilenko is an adept shooter to around 19 feet, Bwright is not. Kirilenko can handle the ball on the perimeter and is a good passer (twice in his career hes averaged over 4 apg with less than 2 ToPG and his assist to TU ratio has always been very good for a 3 or a 4). He can defend on the perimeter and the post. BW is just a lanky 4, Kirilenko can legitimately play the 3
by tafkasam on Jul 5, 2009 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can’t handle that post? Ya, AK isn’t all that great…really. Completely inconsistant and has no 3 point shoot. could he play the 3? Sure, but the rebounding and defense imo is not far off equal. Trade won’t happen cause Nelson will hate AK’s in consistant shooting.
by Balance on Jul 5, 2009 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nelson would love AK’s combination of size, passing ability and athleticism.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Have you looked at his stats, pretty average. There are much better SF’s out there. Do you really feel that he is better than Boozer? Cause from my vague memory Boozer is an all start and an us olympian.
by Balance on Jul 5, 2009 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
After looking at his stats, what I want to know is…
Have YOU looked at his stats? He’s a good shooter (57.0% career TS%), rebounder (6.7 per 36 mins, good for a 3), and passer. Plus he blocks 47 shots per game.
One of those was hyperbole, but my point remains.
Thing C
by markdash on Jul 5, 2009 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
personally not impressed with his stats or watching him play. Let me ask you, did you live in Utah and watch almost everyone of his games? I did for about 2 years.
Don’t get me wrong, I like him better than Maggs but I don’t think it to be even marginally reasonable to desire him over Boozer. He’s stats are pretty average on a production per minute basis. He’s very injury prone, he’s not a go to guy, so really he’s a 17 million per year role player.
by Balance on Jul 5, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly I feel that 6.7 R/per 36 is average at best for a SF. Maybe that’s just me though.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
by kenntoe on Jul 5, 2009 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His rebound % was towards the bottom of PFs, but as a SF he would be near the top of the list.
Thing C
by markdash on Jul 5, 2009 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep in mind that many of his minutes came at PF with Boozer playing Center but, still a good rebounder I won’t argue. Although i’m not hearing response that he’s more valuable to us than Boozer. To me it is crazy to think you’d want AK rather than Boozer if they were both made available to us.
by Balance on Jul 5, 2009 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would agree, however it’s much likelier the Jazz would be willing to trade AK47 than Boozer, so he could be had for a cheaper price (we could even potentially get them to take back Maggette’s contract).
Thing C
by markdash on Jul 5, 2009 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea Boozer is a better player, but Kirilenko’s inferior game and bigger contract make him a more reasonable trade target…… and a good passer who plays great defense and can play either forward spot and get up and down the court isn’t exactly a bad fit for our team.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
AK has only played the power forward about 10% of the time the last 2 or 3 seasons.
If Boozer ever plays center, which is very rare, he plays alongside Millsap.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
by clarkpojo on Jul 6, 2009 3:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it still doesn’t justify the AK to Brandan Wright comparison.
by homer simpson on Jul 6, 2009 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly I feel that 6.7 R/per 36 is average at best for a SF. Maybe that’s just me though
It’s just you. As much as we should respect feelings, where an average is concerned, they’re irrelevant. Kirilenko’s rebounding is not average and certainly not average at best. Average for players primarily listed as SF last year was a bit under 5.7r/36, (the year before it was 5.9 and from year to year it seems to be pretty stable around these two numbers).
For what it’s worth: the position per 36 averages (based on the positions I have players listed at as primary positions, something that is a bit of a judgement call) for 08-09
PF 8.54
C 9.74
PG 3.63
SF 5.68
SG 4.12
For what it’s worth, rebounds in general were down a touch last year from previous years, so comparing how someone did in prior years to this average will be a bit off, but in general it’s a good guide.
by jae on Jul 6, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
yes but AK47 plays under control.
He isn’t a 3 pt shooter but he doesnt force them up. If you watch Utah he only takes 3s when he’s got a wide open look in transition or rotation at an average of a little over 1 per game. Last year he shot 45%, but he’s been a career 47% shooter and 2 years ago was over 50%. For a guy who shoots a lot of jumpers that’s very good
by tafkasam on Jul 6, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wright and AK equal on defense and rebounding ...
Uh … dude.
AK is a proven NBA-quality player. He would get minutes on most teams in the league (although he’s hugely overpaid for what he brings to the table.)
Wright is NOT a proven NBA-quality player. He has yet to prove that he deserves minutes on the Warriors … a team which DESPERATELY needs the qualities he’s supposed to bring to the table.
Their games are pretty different, too – AK’s natural position is the 3. BW’s is the 4. AKs’ game is more mid-range, more motion and flow. BW’s is more traditional low-post stuff.
I think BW could end up being a better player, but it’s going to be about him proving that he wants it. And he might just not have the motor.
by Ronaldinho on Jul 6, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
STATs per 40 min. 2008-09
Brandon Wright
Rebounds: 9.1
Steals:1.3
Blocks: 2.2
Fouls: 4.3
AK47
Rebounds: 7
Steals: 1.8
Blocks: 1.7
Fouls: 2.8
AK is the better player and certainly his value is at the SF position but keep in mind that Wright is still developing/ improving and is a margin of the cost of AK. Back to his value being at SF, losing Wright may demand AK’s attention in that position. As also stated on this page is that he may be a off the bench guy. Didn’t Nellie say Crawford made too much money to come off the bench?
Trading for AK is of value if we can retain Wright but as his replacement increased value is poor on production on dollar basis. As of now Wright is a good value second string player. Now if we could get AK for Maggette and fluff then yes he would add great value to the team at the SF position. I’ve posted numerous time on this board that we need a taller, longer, better defending SF if Jackson is to play SG. That’s just my opinion but AK’s along those lines.
Boozer is the more valueable and needed player of the two. AK should possibly be a second consideration although i think that there are better SF at less cost out there to be explored.
My original quote was that Wright and AK’s rebounding and defense is not that far off equal. Do this numbers say something otherwise? Really? Guess we’ll see this year, I expect Wright to improve.
by Balance on Jul 6, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn’t Nellie say Crawford made too much money to come off the bench?
I don’t think so…..he uses Maggette off the bench.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 6, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you can’t measure defense only by blocks and steals either, Kirilenko is a far better and far more versatile defender than Wright or anyone else on our roster.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 6, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Master of the obvious, thanks but we we’re discussing stats.
by Balance on Jul 6, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm kind of new to blogging overall my bad and I have a lot of other stuff I'm distracted by
Good margin my butt even if Kirilenko had a bad year or two just now he’s still only equal to Maggette at best. Check the stats and notice how people aren’t talking about AK like in his big years(which there were only a couple of and that was a few years ago). As far as a salary move we’re pretty much fine except at the 3 if we want to sit around and wait for Wright to bulk up so why would we get rid of extra players just to get Kirilenko- when his contract is done in ‘11 who are we supposed to sign in ’11 at the 3? Who’s the money for? Maggette is too valuable to waste in a trade for the same position he occupies just for defense. [Note: Career rpg AK= 5.8, Maggette 5.1] Since when have 3s or thin 4s been getting off against the Warriors anyway? Maybe Durant or James but mainly bulky 4s and pgs right? So his defense won’t help much in the bigger context. If we want shotblocking on help Randolph Wright and Turiaf do that so even if AK was not overpaid we don’t really need him as far as what he brings to the team either we already have or it’s not broke so don’t fix it. Jackson is a good defender when he wants do you remember him in San Antonio. And again Jackson is a 3! Not only is playing him as a 2 not his natural position but it causes scarcity of playing time which is what ruined the chemistry and flow last year likely costing us at least 5-6 wins. We should have been almost .500 even with the injuries if players were in their comfort zones. As far as Wright man don’t take Nelson’s lineup decisions as wise you should know better by now and I guess we’re diametrically opposed on Bellinelli. I agree with the premise that trading youth and depth for an upgrade in talent is the sort of deal we should be trying to make but getting Kirilenko will not accomplish that in any significant way.
by polar on Jul 5, 2009 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure I would disagree with all of this if I could understand it
seriously dude, I know you’re new around here but can try to put a little more thought into your posts?
One key thing you’ll learn here very quickly is that per game stats are not nearly as useful when comparing players as per 36 minute stats. Per 36 minutes Kirilenko shoots a better percentage from the floor, shoots almost as well from 3 point range (neither one is good but Kirilenko was actually better last year) rebounds better, gets more assists, turns the ball over less and steals the ball far more often. Oh and he also blocks 13 times as many shots as Maggette. As in, for every shot Maggette blocks, Kirilenko blocks 13 of them. He’s also just a much much better defensive player in general. Maggette gets to the line better (though Kirilenko doesn’t do it that badly either) but thats about it. If you can present any kind of a counter case supporting the idea that Maggette is close to as good of a player as Kirilenko I’d be happy to hear it.
It doesn’t matter who the players are that are torching us on a nightly basis, adding more good or elite defensive players wil help the defense. Trading Maggette for a dramatic defensive upgrade would be worth it even if Kirilenko wasn’t nearly as good on the offensive end.
Again, Kirilenko IS overpaid. Nobody disagrees, But with only two years left it really doesn’t hurt us. We can’t be players in the 2010 free agency period but Kirilenko would be a valuable trade asset if for some reason he doesn’t work out. If he does then we can probably re-sign him for quite a bit cheaper when his contract expires, explore other free agent options, or discuss a larger extension with Randolph.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 6, 2009 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Check the stats
I did. The stats suggest he’s more productive than Maggette when you factor in all of those statistics that factor into the probability of winning basketball games. Kirilenko was about 25% more productive than Maggs last season, largely because of three things: his ability to block shots, pass the ball, and avoid turning the ball over. Given that the statistics in general fail at the one area where it’s rather widely acknowledged that the statistics can be lacking, individual defense, it suggests that the actual margin may be greater. Kirilenko is the more valuable player.
Maggette is too valuable to waste in a trade for the same position he occupies just for defense.
“Just for defense” makes it sound like defense is an afterthought in the game. And while that seems to be the way the Warriors played, if you want to win more than you lose, that sort of play doesn’t get you far. The game is half defense. Your team’s defense has as much influence on the outcome as your team’s offense. Since the Warriors hovered around average for offense but were near the absolute bottom of the league in defense, their results shouldn’t be surprising. It also suggests that adding something “just for defense” means improving an area where you can get the most immediate performance boost towards winning games.
The nice thing about Kirilenko is that he’s a player who you can add “just for defense” who doesn’t bring you a deficit on offense.
by jae on Jul 6, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The nice thing about Kirilenko is that he’s a player who you can add "just for defense" who doesn’t bring you a deficit on offense.
But all around players are SO over rated.
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
by qin on Jul 6, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kirilenko is not going to be worth $8 million more at the 3 than Maggette. Or is he going to take plenty of Randolph’s minutes WITHOUT being a go-to low-post scorer?
by polar on Jul 5, 2009 1:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Kirilenko type salary should be paid to a real All-Star. $17 million wow Jazz…
by polar on Jul 5, 2009 1:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
We don’t have to play Boozer heavy necessarilyif we trade someone expendable like Maggette for him (read anything Maggette can do Jackson can do), just enough to keep Randolph motivated and learning from an established post player in this league. Jackson should be playing the 3 to make room for the guards and Azebuike and Belinelli can back him up in small stints to cover the 48 minutes at the 3. You see we should’ve drafted a 3 to apprentice behind Jax and for injury insurance but next year there should be a better selection anyway.
by polar on Jul 5, 2009 1:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I really really prefer Jackson at the 2. His rebounding plays much better there and his physicality can cause a whole lot more mismatches there as well. Belinelli at the 3? Puke, I’m not sure I’d rather have him at the 1 or 3, either way its bad news. We still have the MLE to use so if we were to make a Maggette for Boozer type trade we could use that to find another option at the 3……or we could simply trade for Kirilenko instead of Boozer and use him in a 3/4 swing role….but suggesting an idea like that would make you a “Warrior hater”
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know if someone mentioned it before
But I think that gaining AK would be a benefit for all reasons said above, in addition to the affect it could have on Jax’ game. He’s usually guarding the opposing team’s player (honestly whether that be 1-4). If we could put AK to play his best D on the likes of a LeBron, Carmelo or Kobe, I think that could free Jax up to take the lesser wing talent. I feel like Jax is a more dynamic scorer than AK is, but AK’s overall game is unique as well. Could be a great compliment. I’m down with getting both Boozer (Re-signed or not) and AK as long as we don’t have to give up any of Monta, AB, Randolph, Curry and Jack.
Thinking about it now, we probably don’t have enough salary to match up.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
by kenntoe on Jul 5, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure you do.
Andrei Kirilenko is going to make 16.4 million, so you only have to come up with about 12.3 million dollars to make the salaries match. Salaries have to be within 25% +/- $100,000. Maggette and Claxton would do it. Maggette, Claxton, and Brandan Wright would be almost equal.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
by clarkpojo on Jul 6, 2009 3:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven’t crunched the numbers on some of the proposed deals in this thread, but I think that’s the way the Warriors should go with this: try to give the Jazz as little salary as possible so that Utah can avoid the tax with Millsap/Boozer/Okur returning.
Thing C
by markdash on Jul 6, 2009 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Wright+Belinelli+Maggette comes up just short, but I could be wrong. If that works that may be the best way to do it as Utah takes on the minimum amount of salary and Cohan may get to save some money with Claxton or we have a nice contract to work with later
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 6, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This would be a great trade for both teams.
For the Jazz though, they will not go for it without claxton. So it would be Maggs and Claxton for Boozer. This would give them more money this year to pay for Milsap, insurance would help lesson the sting of the luxury tax and he expires next year so it may place them back under. Next year AK will be a very large expiring contract, so it would be much easier to move. Maggette gives them instant offense at the SG or SF. I think Maggette would actually be even better with a true point guard like Williams.
For the Warriors we get a beast down low. Witch is something we need as Riley has said….beef. He gives us rebounding tuffness and low post scoring. The warriors also need to clear cap for Morrow and Randolph in the next few years assuming that they end up commanding cash. So even if Boozer left we’d be okay.
by Balance on Jul 5, 2009 2:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Witch is something we need as Riley has said
sign her up
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
With the Ideas floating around, AK47 makes much more sense, his is a large contract that the Jazz would love to unload and we would only have it for 2 yrs.
We would shore up the 3 position which is in desperate need of shoring up.
Giving up Wright could hurt us in the long run but I don’t see Utah doing anything without a cheep, prospect being thrown in the mix.
Beans and AK would have the best hair tandem in the league.
AR and AK would be a nightmare for a lot of teams on both sides of the ball and when has that ever happened with our 2 forward positions.
And like Sammy said Jax at the 2 would be ideal.
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
by qin on Jul 5, 2009 2:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
the downside to AK47
if we played monta, jack, kirilenko, randolph, biedrins on floor, jack would be our only 3 point threat
by tafkasam on Jul 5, 2009 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly why he’s a problem for Nellie offense that centers around spacing the floor and stretching the defense to keep the lanes open.
Also why Nellie also wanted Curry.
by Balance on Jul 5, 2009 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kirilenko was a better 3 point shooter than Maggette last year.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 6, 2009 12:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
true
But i didn’t think maggette and monta meshed well. Granted they didnt play too much together
by tafkasam on Jul 6, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea and I agree with your point about that potential lineup not spreading the floor well, but if it were up to me I’d probably start Buike to get another 3 point threat (and 1 actually good 3 point shooter) in the starting lineup and bring AK47 off the bench. If you figure Kirilenko would probably split his time almost evenly between the 3 and 4 here I don’t think it would be all that difficult to have either Morrow or Buike on the floor for most of the game and that Monta/Jack/Kirilenko/Randolph/Biedrins lineup would be such a defensive upgrade over anything we trotted out last year that I would hope it could overcome the floor spacing issues and play together for a little while.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 6, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i really like the idea of bringing ak off the bench as a 3/4 for either buike or randolph depending on who needs a rest first. a jack of all trades, really good all-around guy off the bench is a great asset to have. considering that our present lineup (if healthy) isn’t that far from a playoff spot, adding an upgrade like kirilenko off the bench that does so much for our defense would have to throw us into the mix for a low end seed, and frees up that money after he becomes a free agent in a couple years.
and as for floor spacing, you left curry off your list of guys who we could have on the court to offset kirilenko’s lack of 3pt shooting. and when you consider that neither maggs nor wright are making the 3 point shoot out anytime soon either, it makes a lot of sense for us to pursue kirilenko. that is, of course, assuming that boozer for maggs isn’t going to happen.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jul 6, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and as for floor spacing, you left curry off your list of guys who we could have on the court to offset kirilenko’s lack of 3pt shooting.
good point. I totally agree that if a Boozer trade is available we have to take that simply because he’s a better player, but I really see AK47 as one of the best possible combinations of potential availability/attainability and fit for this roster in the NBA right now.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 6, 2009 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s funny, because if this exact same trade was proposed by a Warriors fan no one would care. In fact, how do we even know this isn’t a Warriors fan who has figured out the system and is pretending to be a Jazz fan?
Well played Jazz fan (wink wink).
Seriously though, just because fans of another team propose something, doesn’t make it more objective or likely than anything we would propose. Please do not think this is a realistic possibility, because I know if a Warriors fan proposed it you wouldn’t.
by belilaugh on Jul 5, 2009 5:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
because this Jazz fan has been a pretty big contributor to the Jazz’s SBN site for a quite a while
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 5, 2009 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and legitimately knows his stuff. we should be encouraging intelligent posters from other sbnation sites to head this way with ideas, even if this proposal in particular seems to be unlikely (i can’t see the jazz going for it).
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jul 5, 2009 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. We already know that Warriors employees go undercover and post on message boards… maybe they’ll pick up a good idea or two.
Thing C
by markdash on Jul 5, 2009 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree with this line:
“we should be encouraging intelligent posters from other sbnation sites to head this way with ideas” – Sometimes seeing players from other fans perspectives gives us a better idea on their ups and downs, like whether they’re lazy, selfish, locker room trouble, etc.
by IQofaWarrior on Jul 5, 2009 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The implied joke was from the "wink wink" and that I said seriously after, yadida?
by belilaugh on Jul 5, 2009 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Besides, a dedicated Warriors fan could easily have made a fake profile for another site and posted there for quite awhile to establish credibility in their community. And then, came over here to post so when someone joked about them actually being a Warriors fan, a fan or two would go out of their way to look up the person’s posting record to paint the original joker as serious and then discredit him.
Well played, Jazz fan (wink wink).
(another joke by the way, so don’t take it to heart, it’s just so we don’t misinterpret anything, I guess I’ll have to write it out at the bottom from now on)
by belilaugh on Jul 5, 2009 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
is this a joke?
is clarkpojo just taunting us by saying we could have the man who kills us every year, not to mention in the playoffs(that one time). Utah would really not have to like Boozer to trade him for Hamilton or Maggs. I won’t believe this until i see some type of rumor on sportscenter or something, but if it was true i’d do it instantly. He is exactly what we need, he is a low post presence who can score on his won and he will give us down low strength, and 20 points 10 boards per game which isn’t bad.
by bizz 192 on Jul 5, 2009 5:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Uhhh
I won’t believe this until i see some type of rumor on sportscenter or something, but if it was true i’d do it instantly.
This isn’t a trade rumor, but a fanmade trade proposal. clarkpojo is just asking us Warriors fans our opinion on a trade he’d like to see happen between the Jazz and Dubs.
by WYK on Jul 5, 2009 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As far as Boozer for Maggette, I am the one starting the rumor.
But here is some evidence that the Jazz are considering a Boozer trade. And I can assure you that 76% of Jazz fans want Boozer out before the season begins.
http://blogs.sltrib.com/jazz/2009/07/possibilities-of-boozer-trade.htm
And the biggest radio personality that covers the Jazz wants Hamilton for Boozer also. He hates the idea of Boozer for Maggette, but I will convince him otherwise.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
by clarkpojo on Jul 5, 2009 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
realistically hamilton is a better fit
he hits big shots, has toughness, has played in big games and is a much better defender. Maggette has played his whole career on losing teams. i’m just saying i feel alot better with idea of williams-hamilton backcourt entering a playoff series
by tafkasam on Jul 6, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
meh
I don’t see it. His contract is significantly bigger than Maggette’s and he certainly isn’t a much better, if at all better, offensive player than Maggette. I wish I could go back and see Hamilton playing defense last season but I suspect he really isn’t all that great and gets that reputation only from playing on those good defensive teams in Detroit. Clearly he couldn’t have even gotten that reputation if he was as bed defensively as Maggette, but I just don’t think he’s good enough there to make him more attractive than Maggette’s smaller contract and Wright. Of course they could make everybody happy and send Boozer to Detroit for Hamilton and send Kirilenko here for Maggette+Wright : )
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 6, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
its not a matter of boozer is better on offense than maggette
They score in different ways and with boozer we have a low post scorer to balance our outside shooting. Imagine Boozer on one block and Randolph on the other crashing in for rebounds or the ally-oop, with Biedrins hanging back for loose change.
That would be a potent mix with Randolph being subbed in/out for players like Azibuike and JAX who would bring additional outisde firepower.
I think this would be a good move for a year and give us a really valuable trading piece for this season. There is still a lot of jockeying for position to be done for next year
by warriorsvictim on Jul 6, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hamilton is paid too much at this point in his career. The contract is bad now for a guy who will be 31 next year. He’s close to 2 years older than Maggette. He’s at the age where performance can slide quickly and injuries start to become more common. If the last three years are an indication, he’s trending towards missing more games and I wouldn’t be surprised if he breaks down and isn’t much, if any healthier than Maggette for the rest of his career.
If I’m going to be overpaying a 2/3 to sit on the bench for sizable parts of the season while his skills decline, I think I’d rather have the guy getting paid $9mil next year and maxing out at a shade under $11mil than the guy making $11.6mil maxing out at $12.6 over the next 4 years.
Hamilton may be a better player. I don’t think it’s true as he’s not as good a rebounder and is less efficient on offense overall [but he shoots the 3!!! perfect for Nellyball!!!!]. I suspect he is a better defender on the "Maggs is pretty lousy, so it’s likely that anyone drawn at random in the NBA is better", but on whole, I don’t know if it’s an upgrade. Overall, without the clear sign that he’s better, I’d rather have Maggs if I’m picking between the two. I don’t know if Utah feels the same, but that’s how I’d be judging it.
by jae on Jul 6, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, you just don’t understand the Jazz’s financial situation and the dilemma they face with Millsap b/c Boozer didn’t opt out (which is perfectly understandable being that you’re a Warriors fan).
by homer simpson on Jul 6, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Jazz are already over the expected salary cap. Unless they can shed some salary, it’s possible that after matching offers for Millsap, they could be loooking at as much as $12M in luxury tax. From the Deseret News:
The Jazz now have more than $73 million in payroll for next season committed to 11 players, and they still must add two others.
They’re looking at paying millions in fines for excessive spending — a dollar-for-dollar tax for exceeding the NBA’s luxury-tax threshold, which later this week is expected to be set in the $70-to-$72 million range.
Jazz family ownership rep Greg Miller has vowed to pay the tax, if need be.
But he never said anything about paying $12 million or so in taxes, which could be the case if the team were to match an offer sheet that restricted free agent Paul Millsap could sign with another team and the sheet approached $10 million. And they’ve voted to do it.
The more I think about it, the more a move centered around some combo of Maggs/Wright/Beli (maybe all three) and Claxton’s expiring for either Boozer or AK-47 makes a ton of sense, for both teams. I prefer Kirilenko, because he fits our system so perfectly, brings needed defensive intensity, and allows Randolph to develop at his natural position, but I can see arguments for both.
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 6, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
a trade that all the GSoM “things and friends” pretty much all agree makes a ton of sense for both teams? ……….guess that means there is absolutely zero chance of it ever happening.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 6, 2009 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love the idea. Even if Boozer leaves after next year, we’d be rid of Magg’s contract.
Ellis to the RIM!
Monta for the win?! YES!
by XIAOXIAO on Jul 5, 2009 8:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
btw
Rec’ed, because this is actually some trades that make sense and there has been so much discussion on this thread about them.
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
by qin on Jul 6, 2009 12:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Im game for either player
as long as Mags is part of the deal.
Boozer for Mags and Wright???
AK for Mags/Clax and Wright???
Either way I think we make out alright.
Boozer would provide some inside scoring and even if he walks after the year Mags contract is off the books.
AK is a good all around player and can defend and shot block and only 2 years left on deal. Next year expiring contract could prove to be valuable.
Lets pull the trigger.
by CSalMJS on Jul 8, 2009 12:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Boozer would provide some inside scoring
Can anyone name the last warrior with above average post moves?
by tafkasam on Jul 8, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mags/Beli for AK47 would be too much imo.“Rocky” Belinelli will be a starter, maybe a star, in this league for a while ala Manu Ginobili. Book it. Dude displayed a lot of skills and poise in what was basically his rookie season last year. I’d trade Curry before I traded Beli.
by RowellMustGo on Jul 8, 2009 1:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, agreed. (Obviously, what kind of a thing would I be if I didn’t agree with you?)
Manu started later in the league than Belinelli did, but Belinelli needs to improve pretty much every aspect of his game (shooting efficiency, rebounding, passing, defense) in order to be mentioned in the same breath with Ginobili. I have seen nothing in his game that reminds me of Manu. Well, make that one, I guess there’s always the whiteness.
Thing C
by markdash on Jul 8, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha
Stop.......... Hammertime!!!!!
by MR. Bigshot 123 on Jul 10, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
love it
this is probably even better (and more appropriate) than the Commodus thumbs down
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 8, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree. You need to find a picture of him with another team where he is wagging the finger at someone, not just in the air.
Thing C
by markdash on Jul 8, 2009 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the closest one I could find
I think that’s Andew Bynum behind him.
by IQofaWarrior on Jul 8, 2009 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what you really need is a finger wag GIF…….. I’d try to make it but I’m not nearly good enough with that kind of stuff, I wouldn’t even know where to start.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 8, 2009 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
someone who understands computers and has a bit of free time needs to get on that immediately.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jul 8, 2009 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I found this one of a T1000
This will be very annoying if used often.
by IQofaWarrior on Jul 8, 2009 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it’s dikembe or nothing! we need the mt. mutombo finger wag!
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jul 8, 2009 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh I agree
those three combined wouldn’t come close to being as good as a Mutombo wag
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 8, 2009 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it’s a real prize to find it, too. imagine being able to bust out the mutombo the way you throw around the commodus thumbs down…
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jul 8, 2009 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just took a crash course
in converting a video to an animated gif. Find me a good video of the finger wag and someone with an account for hosting images, and I’ll make the .gif.
by IQofaWarrior on Jul 9, 2009 12:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stjzC8pG15A
From about 0:45 to 0:48 (or start a couple secs earlier if you want the blocked shot as well)
(Flickr is a good free hosting site).
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 9, 2009 4:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately, the unsteady camera angle makes it hard to use
as a looping gif. Here’s the best I could come up with:
by IQofaWarrior on Jul 9, 2009 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
The more options I have, the more I like good ol’ Commodus. Please tell me you won’t cheat on him.
Thing C
by markdash on Jul 9, 2009 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome, IQ! I could totally see that becoming a big hit on hoops blogs the world ’round. How do we get the url?
(btw Sam, it wasn’t my idea: a couple of other GSoMers posted it before me…)
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 10, 2009 5:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just right click it and save it to your computer, then you can use it any time you want!
Thing C
by markdash on Jul 10, 2009 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is my flickr account
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gswshowtime
This specific gif can be found here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gswshowtime/3705595301/sizes/o/
I believe this is the first Mutombo finger wag gif, because I searched hard and couldn’t find it. I’m proud to be first. :)
With my newfound skill, I plan to make some more gifs from time to time. Maybe an Anthony Randolph block, a Monta circus shot, Marco arguing with Garnett, etc. Depends on what videos I find.
by IQofaWarrior on Jul 10, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I searched for quite a while too, and found quite few very entertaining gifs but no mutombo. again, nice work IQ.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 10, 2009 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The first gif you get
When you google-image “finger wag animated gif” is pretty, um, entertaining. Don’t get too excited, Naticus…
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 10, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d hit it.
(Yes, I’m pro-eugenics.)
Thing C
by markdash on Jul 10, 2009 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’d probably risk doing time for statutory rape, but hey, you’d be doing your bit for the gene pool… ;-)
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 10, 2009 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s probably not statutory rape in Vietnam or China or whatever the hell country that is. I think they allow 5 year olds to marry!
:)
Thing C
by markdash on Jul 11, 2009 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice. i look forward to seeing him around.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jul 10, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great work...
that turned out quite well.
Thing 2
by olympicmike on Jul 10, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NY7IpN1Cng&feature=related
Some real good compilation of Mutombo’s work
Check out 3:40ish and 4:12ish for some good finger waggin and there’s some more after that.
But all in all a real nice vid.
There's a party in my mind.
And I wish that I was there.
by qin on Jul 11, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Rocky" Belinelli will be a starter, maybe a star, in this league for a while ala Manu Ginobili.
Both white, both have names ending in vowels? Amazing similarities! Yep, it’s clear that Belinelli will be a star!
by jae on Jul 8, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
So with the new lower Salary Cap....
Utah aretaking it in the shorts pretty hard! I suspect trade opportunities may start to become more realistic soon.
I would love to see Carlos Boozer here even for just one year, as we continue Randolphs development. Boozer is a REBOUND beast! Something we have been lacking for a VERY long time!
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Jul 8, 2009 3:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Biedrins is a better rebounder than Boozer, and Randolph (in a rather small sample size) is roughly equal.
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 8, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to TRB%, they’re all about equal.
Thing C
by markdash on Jul 8, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last year Biedrins was a bit better than Boozer (20.2% to 19.2%), and his upward trend is a bit more pronounced.
In any case, it’s wrong to say we lack a rebound beast.
Thing 1
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 8, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hm. just guessing, but doesn’t Boozer dominate Randolph in terms of defensive rebounding? i’d assume he’s better than AB in this regard as well, though i’m not as sure.
by homer simpson on Jul 8, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DO IT NOWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
=Gaucho=
by Gaucho! on Jul 8, 2009 5:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
All I know is....
that, IF we get Boozer, then he can’t hurt the Warriors anymore…. like he did in the playoffs. We have nobody big enough to compete against the big guys like him.
I don’t know why everyone hates Maggette… other than his bad contract. The fact is, is that he is great off the bench for us. He’s great at getting to the line, MUCH better than anyone on the team… and getting to the line more often is something that the Warriors had said they want to do more of next season. We can’t do that by giving up a guy like that.
I still say going after a free agent like Drew Gooden would be the best option for us. We don’t need much in the way of scoring players… we have quite a few of them, I mean, having an 18 ppg guy on our bench isn’t a bad deal. Signing Gooden keeps the team in tact, and gets us a guy big enough to compete with guys like Boozer, when we need them… and there’s not too many of them, so a backup PF would be ideal really.
by aBulldog on Jul 9, 2009 9:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i'd do it
and then i’d put randolph as our sixth man. he’d be a sixth man of the year candidate that way! randolph is still young and he could use a year learning from boozer. as much as i love our current roster, i don’t think this trade could hurt us really. (wasn’t maggette gettin hurt too??) don’t get me wrong i love randolph, but how often do you come across a power forward with all-star considerations? our last all-star was sprewell wasn’t it?
by seven72deuce on Jul 10, 2009 11:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
ar at sf is fine.. lamar odom is 6'10 and plays sf so did kg at the allstar game
C Andris Biedrins
PF Carlos Boozer
SF Anthony Randolph
SG Stephen Jackson
PG Monta Ellis
by thekiddisfresh on Jul 10, 2009 4:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
ar at sf is fine.. lamar odom is 6’10 and plays sf so did kg at the allstar game
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 10, 2009 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Charles Barkley was pretty generously listed at 6’6"….perhaps we should’ve been playing Crawford there. I think Scottie Pippen played some PG in an all-star game, we should let Maggette or Wright give it a try.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 10, 2009 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does CB make us slower?
i dont like like that hes just 6’9 and he’s 266 lbs. he might be too big and not able to run with the warriors. I’d like to pick up or trade for a nice 6’10 and less than 260 because he can run pf. Then we can run. This sounds like Amare to me. AR IS AN SF! JUST READ PREVIOUS POST B4 THIS Also we need to keep Beans or trade future pick … because this is already a leegit line up with a nice back up!! hopefully the suns make a good deal with us.
Andris B.
Amare
Anthony R.
Stephen Jackson
Monta ellis
Curry
Morrow
Azubuike
Jamareo D.
Turiaf
Trade:
Suns get Maggette, Wright, Belinelli. Thats not enough then give them our future 1st round pick
Warriors get Amare
by thekiddisfresh on Jul 10, 2009 4:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Putting it in allcaps and mentioning that you wasted a post putting up a hypothetical lineup doesn’t make it so. Randolph has not shown himself to be effective as a wing player. His outside shooting was lacking and he turned the ball over a bunch. In contrast, when he played primarily as a 4 or 5, his FG% climbed into a respectable range and he showed himself to be a near-elite rebounder. Until he demonstrates the ability to actually put his alleged "skills" to work, projecting him as a 3 is just plain silly.
Suns get Maggette, Wright, Belinelli. Thats not enough then give them our future 1st round pick
It’s not enough. It’s not even close. It’s ridiculously, absurdly not even close to a deal that the Suns would consider even with a future 1st attached. And we don’t have future 1st rounders to just toss in. The Marcus Williams deal makes trading a future 1st difficult until that pick is conveyed.
by jae on Jul 10, 2009 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
AR IS AN SF
Until Randolph can show a consistent long range shot (and some of the other stuff jae said above me), he is NOT a small forward.
by IQofaWarrior on Jul 10, 2009 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"AR IS AN SF!"
No, he’s not.
Although he might become one.
A SF’s game is about driving to the basket and shooting jumpers, as well as scoring on cuts to the basket without the ball both in the half-court and in transition. A PF’s game is about mixing it up close to the basket, finishing pick-and-rolls, post moves, scoring close to the basket on dumps from guys driving, and scoring on cuts to the basket without the ball.
Look at those lists. Of the “SF” skills, AR has one … the one that overlaps. He may yet develop the ability to drive with the ball (he’s shown flashes) … but he also may develop better post moves. But most of his game fits squarely with what you expect from a big, not from a wing player.
Certainly, if AR develops his wing skills, he has the potential to be an extremely dominant player. But at the moment, based on what he’s actually shown us on the court, he’s an inside player – a 4 or a 5, not a 3.
by Ronaldinho on Jul 10, 2009 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How can AR be a SF
if he can’t freaking dribble in traffic?
by rjnarayen on Jul 10, 2009 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah…should have clarified. I meant how can people be planning to slot AR as an SF for this upcoming season when he hasn’t shown the ability (yet) to dribble consistently. Seems to be a pretty basic part of being a SF.
by rjnarayen on Jul 10, 2009 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i totally agree
and I understood what you were saying but I can’t pass up an opportunity to throw an Iverson “practice” out there.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jul 11, 2009 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
just curious
i see a lot of people hating on corey maggette? i dont see why he embraced his 6 man role and gets to the line at will. i think hes a great playeri dont see why everyone says to trade him so much? i guess its his contract? also i see a lot of people wanting to trade biedrins i dont get that either.
by mekanikal on Jul 19, 2009 1:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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