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Try to S & T for Lee? Do the W's even have a shot?



Obviously, David Lee is the top FA out there and would be an excellent fit with the Warriors. Just ask Bucher:

16. David Lee, PF/C, Knicks (RFA)

His game: Energy and defense without needing plays called for him. Will sacrifice his body on screens and charges. Undersized but athletic, hard-nosed and low-maintenance. Rebound and loose-ball fiend. Good hands and decent with putbacks and finishing around the rim off pick-and-roll. Not much of a threat beyond 15 feet or on post-ups. Willing help defender, but not a shot-blocker.

Right system: Up-tempo is ideal because he'll outrun most bigs in transition. Need at least three scorers, ideally four, so he has room and reason to chase down rebounds and putbacks. Can't play off an offensive post threat because he doesn't have the jumper to space the floor. Mobile enough to show on the guard in pick-and-roll defense and get back to a rolling big.

Wrong system: A methodical half-court set with a dominant scoring center who is not a shot-blocker.

Best fits: Suns, Blazers, Jazz, Rockets, Thunder, Warriors

I'm sure nearly everyone on this site would love to have him on the W's and there has been a lot written about the possibility in the comments of several posts. The question is would we have a shot and what would we have to give up to make it happen? (warning: long post with lots of analysis)

Star-divide

It's pretty obvious that NY is focused primarily on shedding salary for next summer's free agent class

IIn order to preserve cap space, NY is unlikely to match a large contract offer for Lee and that's why he's widely seen as available despite his restricted free agent status. Of course as a FA, restricted or not, he can choose where he plays next year. As has been dicussed and proven to with depressing regularity, Golden State is not a very desirable destination for players right now ( front office uncertainty, Nellie being Nellie, etc.). However, let's pretend for the sake of optimism that Lee is a big Bucher reader and wants to play for a team he is ideally suited for and, for some unknown reason, would be willing to play here. With Portland being the only team in that group that has the room to sign him outright, and with their reported reluctance to sign him to an offer sheet, it seems a sign and trade is most likely.

Ignoring Lee's preference as to where he plays (still totally unknown other than his supposed desire to stay in NY which won't happen), let's think about who, limiting it to those 5 teams, could offer the best S & T package.

All those 5 teams can offer around or more than the $9M Lee's contract will most likely start at. If, though, all NY wants is the most expiring money they can get, Houston,  Phoenix and Utah all have the W's beat. T-Mac is a $23M expiring, Ben Wallace has a $14M and Boozer has a $12.6M expiring. Each offers an advantage that we can't match. All 3 contracts would allow Lee to sign for a starting contract of, let's say $9M and still leave room in the deal for NY to send out another bad contract. Obviously, Houston has the most to offer in that category with T-Mac.

While Wallace is pretty much done and T-Mac is a big question mark right now, Boozer is still potentially an All-Star level PF and would be the only player out of those 3 big expiring contracts that would be a significant contributor this season. Of course, NY would want nothing to do with him after his deal expires because they have their eyes set on 'Bron and Bosh in 2010.

This is where I see the one advantage that GS could offer: we can trade young, high upside players who also have expiring deals. Wright would be expendable if we got Lee since Wright already wasn't getting minutes at PF and would certainly get less if Lee was here. Belinelli is totally expendable with our glut of shooting guards.

Both Belli and BWright have one more guaranteed year and then a player option for 2010-2011. This would give NY a no-risk opportunity to assess them for one year. They could then let their contracts expire or pick up their options. Again, the one advantage the Dubs have.

Including Wright and Belli is the easy part. The hard part is what other salaries do you add to make it work. Law and Claxton can't be traded in combination with another player until 60 days after their trade to GS. There's no way Lee is still available in fifty something days so they're out. Assuming NY would only be willing to take on non-expiring salary if it was 1) a small amount and 2) young talent, that leaves 3 players the W's could add to make the numbers work: Buke, Morrow and Curry. Buke, Wright and Belli makes the numbers work (BTW I did it just using a calculator and salaries listed on Hoopshype b/c ESPN trade machine is using last year's numbers so I don't think it's accurate). But I don't think NY would want Buke's $3.6M on the books in 2010-2011, unless they see Wright and/or Belinelli as worth it (unlikely).

Curry's salary will be about $2.4M in 2010-2011 but NY obviously loves Curry and would be happy to pay it. Problem is, a package of Wright, Belli and Curry only allows us to take on $8.2M in salary, which will not get us Lee unless we structure big raises into the deal to make up for a low 1st year salary. Plus, Nellie has been pretty clear he doesn't want to give up Curry.

Morrow will make significantly less than Curry so Wright, Belinelli and Morrow definitely doesn't get us there. A package of Wright, Belinelli, Morrow AND Curry gets us there, but that's a lot of young talent to give up, plus Morrow and Curry would each still have at least one year on their deals after 2009-2010 so that might make them slightly less attractive to NY.

All in all, it seems like the only deal that NY would take from us would be Wright, Belinelli, Morrow AND Curry. I can't see Nellie wanting to do that. Let's call that deal #1.

The one other shot I see is if we did a package of Wright, Buke and Belinelli for Lee. Then, in a separate trade, sent Claxton to NY for one of their bad contracts. We could take back Jared Jeffries, who is on the books for $6.4M next year and a 2010-2011 player option he'll likely pick up for $6.9M. That would offset Buke's salary in 2010-2011 and then some. It would give them young talent they have team options with and give them a solid role player in Buke. Let's call that deal #2.

Is Lee worth all that? On the one hand, he's a double-double machine and would seem to be a perfect fit, other than he isn't the protoypical "shooting big man" that Nellie dreams about. On the other hand, losing a LOT of young talent (deal #1) or adding more salary to our already ridiculous payroll (deal#2) seem like big risks. What do you guys think?

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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haha just playin but,we can't afford to have LEE... our big men have too much talent and I dont want Lee to rot on the bench either

we’re set with out big men
PF-Randolph/Wright
C-Biedrins/Turiaf/Davidson

Its time for a change...

by RunNdGun on Jul 5, 2009 5:09 PM PDT reply actions  

I agree

We probably can’t afford him. I just wanted to look at the numbers b/c he would be sick playing for us. As far as being set for big men, I don’t know. I agree we are set at C but I think we’d be better off trying to develop Randolph as a SF and having a big body who can defend bigger PF’s at our PF spot and Lee fits that, at least basketball wise. There’s no doubt that adding salary is the last thing we should do.

by Lifelong on Jul 5, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like the Idea of letting Randolph play SF

A big Salary that can help match Lee’s without sending all of our young gunners…Throw Maggette in there. Marco, Wright, and Cory. 3 different positions, 2 youngs studs, and one buff guy to make free throws.

by jimmycaps on Jul 5, 2009 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

A sign and trade as you’ve outlined is not possible. When Lee signs a contract, he becomes BYC. This means we have to send out similar salary to acquire him in a trade, even a sign-and-trade, to make space for him under the cap. Problem: as BYC, NY cannot take back the full value of his contract, so they very likely could not take back what we would need to send out. Trade is unlikely to work under the CBA rules with most of the teams Bucher mentions. Portland is an exception as they are not bound by the need to send out salary if they’re under the cap. They don’t need to send out equal value to his salary. They can send back picks, lower dollar players, whatever NY can fit under their cap.

A real simple rule when evaluating if a sign-and-trade is plausible is to just conclude that it is not. I’ve yet to see one on a fan site that wasn’t either impractical for one or both of the teams, something that the player would like to do, or fit within the rules of the CBA. Often, more than one of these obstacles are involved.

by jae on Jul 5, 2009 5:30 PM PDT reply actions  

To be fair, it seems a disproportionate number of FAs this year are RFAs coming off rookie deals. Those guys are pretty much impossible to make S&Ts for.

In “normal” years, you have guys coming off FA deals into free agency for a second time. Those guys are a lot more S&T-able than guys like David Lee.

I guess the key is finding a team with a big FA coming off another FA contract that is rebuilding. That way they would be amenable to taking back assets (picks, salary or expirings) whereas a team up against the cap/tax (like the Magic with Turkoglu) isn’t. I think of the Rashard Lewis signing, where the Sonics got back a conditional second rounder and a massive trade exception.

Thing C

by markdash on Jul 5, 2009 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good knowledge as always, jae

I didn’t think about his base year status. Everything I proposed met the 125% requirement (we’d be taking in no more than 125% of what we were sending out) but I guess that doesn’t apply when it’s BYC. As to it being impractical, I made a point not to weigh whether they should do it, just whether they could do it but forgetting about the BYC nixed that. Thanks for the info, jae.

by Lifelong on Jul 5, 2009 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

I posted something about trying to sign and trade Lee before

I didn’t know the details, but I had a feeling that for some reason or another it wouldn’t be possible to get Lee. I really like his game though, he’s definitely the type of player we could use:blue collar, unselfish, rebounds well. As far as our frontcourt being set, not so sure about that one. I’m still convinced we either need a backup C, in which case you could slide Turiaf to PF, or a backup PF. Davidson played ok in his time last season, but I really doubt he is a long term solution, and I’m still not convinced that Wright has the necessary strength or rebounding ability to be a consistent and reliable NBA PF.

by Pearlsofwisdom on Jul 5, 2009 7:02 PM PDT reply actions  

Leave Lee alone

I’m not going to actually give my opinion on Lee, but according to this excerpt, David Lee is Mark Madsen with hops. – pass-

by polar on Jul 5, 2009 9:06 PM PDT reply actions  

Was that on the original post or on polar’s reply?

Thing C

by markdash on Jul 5, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not terribly excited about the prospect.

He’s not going to change our team much, unless he could play center. If he were 6’11", I’d be more high on him. Why? Because I’m still hoping to trade Biedrins for an all-star like Bosh or Amar’e. We don’t need more PF’s than Ronnie, Randolph and Wright, particularly, unless they are stars.

by Naticus on Jul 6, 2009 6:05 PM PDT reply actions  

Good times

Does anyone else remember the chemistry that Monta and Lee had during the rookie-sophomore pounding a couple of years back? The two of them destroyed the rookie team. I still get giddy thinking about all those sweet alley-oops.

by RonG on Jul 8, 2009 9:38 AM PDT reply actions  

MLE

It seems to me the W’s should just offer Lee a contract for the MLE, similar to what Ariza got. He is clearly worth more, but I don’t know if he’s going to get it. (I don’t see why Portland would want him, and I don’t see who else could offer more than the MLE.) I suspect that the Knicks would match, but if they didn’t it would be a tremendous bargain.

Of course it’s irrelevant since no way will Nellie try to acquire a player who “can’t shoot.”

by taliesin on Jul 8, 2009 1:08 PM PDT reply actions  

I suspect he can find a more desirable spot to play at that price. Would Lee accept an MLE offer from the Warriors? The Knicks only get to match if he accepts an offer.

by jae on Jul 8, 2009 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I suspect that, free agent aspirations in 2010 aside, the Warriors and David Lee would be doing the Knicks a favor if they were to agree to an offer sheet for the MLE.

Thing C

by markdash on Jul 8, 2009 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

I take it you mean because they’d match. And I agree. But I don’t see how Lee can get more than the MLE. Who’s gonna offer him more? I just don’t see any potential suitor who can go higher than that.

by taliesin on Jul 8, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

No one will offer him more this year most likely. However, he can take the qualifying offer and become an unrestricted FA in a year. Still, were I him, I’d look for the most desirable place to take an MLE and go there.

The player market is weird though. Bargnani has done nothing to deserve a contract larger than Biedrins. Did they really fear that if they didn’t lock him in, someone was going to swoop in and steal him in another year when he was a restricted free agent? Lee is a much better player, yet he won’t likely make as much as Bargnani.

The lowered cap is going to make for some interesting decisions for players, especially since it’s possible that it goes down again next year. If it doesn’t go up, the guys looking to opt out for the max will probably lose money vs. not opting out and waiting a year to become FA’s. In my rough computation, it’s could cost them all somewhere around $10mil over the rest of their careers if they guess poorly.

by jae on Jul 8, 2009 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

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