Asking GSoM: Raptors HQ wants the 411 on Marco Belinelli
UPDATE (8/1/09 10:01 am): Rap it up with the HQ in The Scoop on Belinelli!
I should also be clear on the Raps angle since we have a lot of Raptors fans reading. First of all, welcome T-Town. As my esteemed colleague JAE and I have written at length this trade is meaningless for the Warriors. In the long run it's also pretty meaningless for the Raptors. But if you want to assign a grade for the Raptors front office for this move, it's undoubtedly an A. It's a low risk, potentially high reward move. They traded nothing for the possibility of something. Can't fault that one bit from the Raps angle- unlike that silly and unnecessary extension for quite possibly the worst rebounding big man in the league, but that's another story for another time...
=============================
At the start of the last year in this decade we rolled out the famous Polling GSoM segment. It's been a hit to say the least. Even The New York Times recognizes game. But as you all know, we're not one hit wonders (ahem, Young MC) here at the mighty GSoM. Building on that success it's time to launch another soon to be platinum status hit.
My golden friends I give you... Asking GSoM!
What's that you say?
Well think of Asking GSoM as a more eloquent and in-depth version of Polling GSoM. Instead of just voting and participating in an unstructured discussion we've got a structured and provocative set of discussion topics centered around a common theme and news item in the association.
Our friends over at Raptors HQ provide the "Asking" for this inaugural segment with their inquiries about the Marco Belinelli for Devean George swap. Check out:
- Warriors Trade Marco Belinelli to Raptors for Devean George- What a Joke!
- Belinelli Traded, World Does Not End: State of the Warriors after the trade
Raptors HQ is legit. This ain't no Craptors HQ!
Jump to see what questions have been flown into the GSoM Mailbag via Air Canada.
Asking #1: There has been a lot of discussion about what sort of player Belinelli is now and what he could be. Your recent poll is suggesting he is fools gold but there are also a lot of Raps fans who recall his performance against the team when he went 5/8FG3, 6/6FT, 6AST, 23PTS, in a 117 point GSW win. Was this a complete anomoly, much like his summer league performance a few years back? Has any other player built a reputation based on one summer league game like Belinelli appears to have done?
My 20 cents: It was a complete anomaly. It's a little funny come to think of it. I remember awhile back Devean George made a big name for himself in the summer league, but maybe I'm only remembering that because I lived in SoCal at the time and was surrounded by LA Faker fans who hilariously tried to convince me that George was the next Shawn Marion (true story).
Asking #2: Raptors fan are generally pretty excited about the trade. George was not going to contribute a great deal and Belinelli seems to be falling into a best case scenario given the United Nations feel with the Raps and the possibility of more PT. What went wrong in Golden State? Is it simply a numbers game and that Belinelli is less talented than the rest of the current players at his position? Or, is it the circus of a front office (and the politics that came with that)?
My 20 cents: Belinelli is not only less talented than the rest of the other Warrior players at his position, but less talented than about 95% of the guards in the league. He got beat out for playing time fair and square on a 29 win team. What does that tell you? He's not a very good NBA player.
Asking #3: The feeling at the HQ is that even if Belinelli doesn't work out the team didn't have to give up much to get someone with upside and who could become a rotation player. It's not like Colangelo gave up a first round pick for Marcus Williams....(ouch!). There seems to be some sentiment that if Belinelli doesn't get minutes however, he could cause a disturbance in the locker room. Is there anything to support this?
My 20 cents: After his rookie season in the offseason Belinelli aired his frustration with his lack of playing time (which he by the way didn't earn or deserve) to the Italian press. Belinelli also reportedly refused Nellie's request to go down to the NBDL amidst his horrendous rookie campaign. He seems like a decent enough cat though. I doubt he's a locker room drama queen and that he'll create any disturbance in the Toronto locker room, but that's just my intuition and not based on any real reports.
Asking #4: One player readers keep comparing him to is former Raptor Jason Kapono. Although Kapono could shoot he was an atrocious defender. Is Belinelli really that bad a defender? Is there another NBA player who might be a better comparison (please say yes!)?
My 20 cents: Some delusional Warrior fans will actually argue that Belinelli is a good defender, but take that with a pound of salt. Remember we haven't seen anything resembling defense here since that magical We Believe run in the spring of 2007. Most Warriors fans wouldn't know what good defense was if a Dikembe Mutombo rejection hit them in the face. Belineli is not nearly as good of a 3pt shooter as Kapono, but probably just as atrocious of a defender.
Post your detailed insights to these questions in the comments.
And since we have some Raps fans reading I thought it'd be fun time to bring back this oldie, but goodie...
0 recs |
99 comments
|
Comments
Belinelli Started a few games for us last year......................
due to injuries, and he played very well. He’s also a scrappy defender (who flops a lot lol) but he can get under your skin for sure
by Carmelballin on Aug 1, 2009 3:09 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He can sell that Euro flop mighty well
Remember when he fouled out Ray Allen lol the frustration on his face was better than the win
by 123707THIZZ on Aug 1, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He played pretty well during that stretch of December games.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 1, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s pretty much the answer.
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Aug 1, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s too bad that he didn’t stay healthy. Then again, maybe there isn’t an Anthony Morrow if that doesn’t happen.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 1, 2009 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Then again, maybe there isn’t an Anthony Morrow if that doesn’t happen.
Anthony Morrow = Tonya Harding
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Aug 1, 2009 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pay no attention to Atma Laker Fan ONE
Anomoly? The Toronto game wasn’t even his best game that month. Marco was KILLIN it in December. Killin it. These same Warrior fans bashing Belinelli were chanting “Rocky..Rocky” and high fiving eachother after every made three. NOW listen to them. It’s hilarious.
Yes Anthony Morrow beat out Belinelli for mins. I hate how our Warrior fans have to demean Morrow, calling him a “Dleaguer”, “undrafted” type player to make Belinelli look bad. Anthony Morrow is a GOOD player, one of the best shooters on the planet. Belinelli had to take a back seat to a GOOD player, it does not mean Belinelli is bad.
If Assistant coach Keith Smart aka the defensive coordinator says Belinelli transformed himself into a good defender, I believe HIM. I believe the guy who is in practice everyday. And the fact that Nellie trusted Belinelli to guard Durant, Kobe, Ray Allen, etc… during that wonderful stretch in December, says it all. Keith Smart forgot more basketball than Atma Laker ONE will ever know.
Fact is Raptors fans… You guys got a STEAL. There really is no way around it. Warrior fans bashing Bellinelli, its all a defense mechanism. Cus deep down they know we got raped in this deal.
by Bob on Aug 1, 2009 3:14 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Killing it?
30 minutes per game
44.9% FG%
89.7% FT%
38.4% 3PT%
14.1 ppg
2.6 rpg
3.2 apg
2.1 to
1.0 stl
0.0 blk
Not exactly “killing it,” I would say. That looks exactly like a league-average shooter who can’t rebound to save his life. Oh, and who turns the ball over a lot.
Thing C
by markdash on Aug 1, 2009 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, when a guy who doesn’t play all that much scores 19 or more points in five games, you can get a little excited.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 1, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bob is correct....to a degree.
Bellinelli played well during that stretch, but “killing it” is a bit exaggerated. I would say Marco is a tick-below-average NBA shooting guard, but that doesn’t mean he has topped out. IMHO he never got a fair shake in Golden State. It’s quit possible that he can become a solid rotation guy with time. Most nights he won’t be spectacular, but he will wow on occasion (i.e. the 23pt and 6ast game).
There are a lot of Marco-Haters and Marco-Lovers on GSoM. I follow neither creed. The Raptors got a decent player for next to nothing and it should work out well. I hope he succeeds up north, but I’m not terribly sorry to see him go. I’ll just upset if I have to watch Devean George play more than .05 min a game. And that’s only if he is in to foul some one really hard.
by jnormous on Aug 1, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree w/ Bob.
Belinelli has always been undervalued on this team and the OP is being a little over the top with all the negativity. Just setting up for a foot-in-mouth moment. I think Beli will have some success in Toronto.
by Hatalles on Aug 1, 2009 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Atma all this over the top Belinelli hate...
Is making me lose some respect for you and all the brownies out there. He’s no star but it is ignorant to say he hasn’t had glimpses of being a solid nba player. He can shoot, and is a competent defender who puts in effort and he has some all around skills.
I hope this is just a late friday night post and you’re as drunk as i am, otherwise your gonna lose some credibility, because you let your feelings about Belinelli take over factual analysis. Belinelli is average-ish with some potential that people like to get hyped over, but he’s definitely not bad. a lot of us watched those games when he came alive before the ankle injury and we know he’s no bum.
This is our year
by DaymanCometh on Aug 1, 2009 4:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Dont know where to begin
I’ll just throw this out there and get it over with. People that want attention talk about the raptors, because lets face it we have the biggest internet fan base. Is that what is going on now? A bit of bitterness and a reason for a few thousand extra hits?
Anyways you’re obviously just a hater (seeing as how you have that picture saved just for such instances) but I dont mind. Means we are doing something right.
Much as some unbiased warriors fans have already pointed out, this was nothing more than a steal. Nelli and Marco were feuding and our golden child colangelo came in with a fist full of cash and an expiring contract knowing you guys were stacked at that position and turned lead into gold.
Face it, Marco is not a scrub and addresses one of our most pressing needs. I dont know if you think Morrow is a scrub or not, but imo they are both good young players.
But then again, your article did get me here and I created an account, so you’ve succeeded in your quest for more viewership by dissing the most active nba community on the internet.
Anyways you have a decent team, but no need to be bitter because we stole bello for nothing and have had an otherwise magical offseason.
by TheGreatWhiteNorth on Aug 1, 2009 5:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The HQ Questions
Greatwhite -
This was a collaborative effort between us…it was to allow Raps fans to get the Warriors fans view on Belinelli. A lot of Raps fans are discussing him as if they watched every GS game all year….which is doubtful. Just looking for another take on the acquisition from the people who have watched him the most!
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Aug 1, 2009 7:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
is the ‘warriors view’ that hes worse than 95% of guards in this league? Just wondering…
by TheGreatWhiteNorth on Aug 1, 2009 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s at least one guy who’s been blogging about the Warriors for at least over the span of Belinelli’s NBA career. It’s just one guy’s opinion. I mean, you’ve seen me rip Jamario Moon, so….
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 1, 2009 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
is the ‘warriors view’ that hes worse than 95% of guards in this league?
No , he’s probably worse than about 75%. He has some usefullness in case of injury or foul troubles. His worst qualities are stiffness, not knowing which side of the backboard is up, and never learning to look where he’s gonna pass. If Toronto doesn’t have any depth Marco will fit in.
" I hear the ancient footsteps like the motion of the sea
Sometimes I turn, there's someone there, other times it's only me
I am hanging in the balance of the reality of man
Like every sparrow falling, like every grain of sand."
by Skeptic con Urquell on Aug 1, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Face it, Marco is not a scrub and addresses one of our most pressing needs. I dont know if you think Morrow is a scrub or not, but imo they are both good young players.
They’re both young in that they’re under 24 years old. They’re both good in that they would dominate any of us on the playground. However, Morrow is a much better shooter who doesn’t turn the ball over as much and rebounds way better. That’s a huge difference.
Thing C
by markdash on Aug 1, 2009 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Dubs fans sem to b torn over this trade
Some of us are really pissed of like me because i know Marco is going to produce for you guys. For all the Raps fans who aren’t familiar with our front office or our coaching, Don Nelson is senile. Once he decides he doesn’t like a player thats it, theres almost nothing they can do at that point and they basically either will ride the bench for a few years like Belli did, or he will tell them to get traded or they gonna get waived. Belli has a lot of potential, I hold him in higher regard then Anthony Morrow because he is simply a more rounded player. Dont get me wrong i love Anthony i just don’t see what everyone else does. He cant create for himself, he cant play defense or pass as good as Marco. Marco is the type of player who is at his best with the ball in his hands, this is why he never got a chance to shine with us. Everytime he would get these opertunities he was probably so nervous that Nelly was gonna take him out he couldnt just play basketball like he was capable of. I think he should start for the Raps, hes better then Antoine Wright, Better then Demar Derozan right now, and since you guys didn’t get Delfino I think hes the best bet. I just want to clear up that Atma really hates on Belli but he doesn’t speak for all of us, I think hes got great potential and the Raps is the best place for him at this point.
by mekanikal on Aug 1, 2009 7:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Anyways enjoy this season Cannucks cause next season were coming for Chris Bosh, and if that happens Belli will be the least of my concerns. :D
by mekanikal on Aug 1, 2009 7:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Marco is good
He is going to be really good for you. Last year we were beginning to see a Manu type player come out of him. His no look passes and scrappy D were amazing all of us until he sprained his ankle. The dude was D’ing up the best SG’s on the opposing team. Not to mention Kobe even told him in Italian he did a good job against him. The dude can get hot, period. He’s got really good court vision and can whip a pass pretty damn good but sometimes it’s too much flash and turns into silly TO’s.
by bojangles408 on Aug 1, 2009 9:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It looks like everyone around the league loves Belinelli
and everyone is calling this an inexplicable trade on the Warriors behalf….
But Atma Bro and alot of GSOM didn’t like Marco and have huge mancrushes on Morrow.
Morrow is a shooter who doesn’t do much else. His rebounding is nice but that shouldn’t be a reason we play him unless we are playing an extremely small lineup.
I know for a fact that if Belinelli played the last 14 games like he did in the middle of the season…you guys would be all over him.
Afterall Morrow didn’t even play that well in the final games.
What were some of his stats…
12-30 from the field…..great job homers.!!!
Marco Belinelli's Biggest Fan
by montadaboss on Aug 1, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
People are confused why they gave up a young guy for an old guy
I’ve seen very little “marco is a good player to give up” comments from any news source.
by mosdl on Aug 1, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lol Silly Great White North
Arguing over larger internet fanbase? How very Urkel of you.
Not that I care, but where is this claim even coming from? Your’e sbnation site looks as barren as much of your country. (No offense to its creator.)
by Shaka1 on Aug 1, 2009 10:25 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Barren
As the co-creator I don’t take offence, but we have only been part of the family for a month….
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Aug 1, 2009 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
From the game recap vs Toronto:
And then there’s Belinelli, who hit five 3-pointers in yet another strong game as a starter since Nelson removed his training wheels this month. Belinelli also had a career high-tying six assists and solid defense, inciting the sellout Oakland crowd to chant “Rocky! Rocky!” in homage to the Italian second-year pro’s resemblance to Sylvester Stallone.
Hah, that was the only part of this game I remember now, the Rocky chants. I think it was at the end of the game, when he was trying to make his free throws.
by IQofaWarrior on Aug 1, 2009 10:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
From the game recap vs Toronto:
“inciting the sellout Oakland crowd to chant "Rocky! Rocky!" in homage to the Italian second-year pro’s resemblance to Sylvester Stallone.”
Did Toronto get confused and think they are actually getting Satallone in this trade? It all makes sense now :>)
" I hear the ancient footsteps like the motion of the sea
Sometimes I turn, there's someone there, other times it's only me
I am hanging in the balance of the reality of man
Like every sparrow falling, like every grain of sand."
by Skeptic con Urquell on Aug 1, 2009 10:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Devean George= Shawn Marion?!?!?
I totally believe you. I knew some LA Faker fans back then that would argue vehemently that Devean George was the next Scottie Pippen
I remember awhile back Devean George made a big name for himself in the summer league, but maybe I’m only remembering that because I lived in SoCal at the time and was surrounded by LA Faker fans who hilariously tried to convince me that George was the next Shawn Marion (true story).
by ThermoElectro on Aug 1, 2009 10:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I knew some LA Faker fans back then that would argue vehemently that Devean George was the next Scottie Pippen
Haha, WOW!! That just goes to show you how stupid Laker fans are.
It was the shoes!!
by LighTz707OuT on Aug 1, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha, WOW!! That just goes to show you how stupid Laker fans are. LOLOL
Never fairer words were spoken !!
by ForestGrump on Aug 1, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
long and short of it
Raptor fans – first, apologies, you are witnessing the tip of the iceberg of one of the all-time pissing matches in GSoM history
ok, fwiw, Marco likely WILL play better for you than us if for no other reasons than he’ll have a fresh start, more minutes, and quite likely a more supportive atmosphere around him. WE WISH HIM WELL as he’s been a pretty good egg all in all.
at GS he was in a log-jam of SGs, didn’t have confidence, played inconsistently – yes some good, but overall not quite as well as who we can replace him with internaly
he’s your bright, shiny new toy in exchange for an older, worn out one – of course you are seeing this as a great deal! but the cost to you is double, because you’re paying us most of George’s salary to take the old toy away
for us, Marco wasn’t going to have much value, we sold him to you but we have the ability to use the old toy’s contract in a future deal to bring us our own shiny new toy to get all excited about later
steal? sure, if you say so… for now … let’s see how Marco’s year plays out, mindful that you have to decide whether to pick up his option before hand, and what we are able to parlay using George’s contract + $$$ you sent us and then judge… right now it looks like a good deal for Tor, and “yet to be determined” for GSW
by hardcore on Aug 1, 2009 11:08 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
hadrcore
Who won that pissing match?
by ForestGrump on Aug 1, 2009 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
bigger beer drinkers always have more ammunition
but scotch drinkers have the better quality amo ;=]
by hardcore on Aug 2, 2009 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My take #1-4
1. The game against the Raptors was not an anomaly. Marco was in the middle of a stretch where he was getting more consistent minutes, starter minutes actually, and he was doing decently well. I think that stretch was the best we saw of Marco. He had some hot nights, but also some really cold nights. But at the very least, nobody was yelling at him to sit back down on the bench, unlike Jamal Crawford.
2. The Warriors were overloaded with guards, so minutes were sparse. I think the original problem Nellie had with Marco was that he couldn’t defend. To Marco’s credit, he did improve his defense, earning praise from Nellie and Keith Smart about it. I can only guess that Marco’s next problem was not following his defensive assignments…? Or his rebounding assignments…? If only we had a spy in the Warriors practices to find out. I don’t know if Marco couldn’t fit into Nellie’s system, or if Marco’s skills don’t translate well into the NBA. Anyway, we’ll find out after he’s played for the Raptors next season.
3. Marco has complained about not getting minutes before, but as far as being a locker room distraction, he doesn’t seem like one. At least, none of our local writers have hinted at this that I can remember.
4. He’s not a bad defender any more. Nellie joked on the radio that when Marco first played, he couldn’t guard anyone, not even Nellie or Tom Tolbert (local radio host, former NBA player), basically saying he couldn’t even guard old guys. He’s not Shane Battier’s hand-in-kobe’s-face-when-he-shoots, but he’s willing to be physical and pester. His most memorable game was vs Celtics, when he harassed Ray Allen into fouling out, and also drew the ire of Kevin Garnett. Some say Marco’s a flopper, but I don’t remember Marco being a blatant flopper, certainly not like Fisher and Ginobili. And just to show I’m not blind to flopping on the home team, I consider Maggette a blatant flopper.
by IQofaWarrior on Aug 1, 2009 11:17 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Belinelli beat out Morrow until he went down with his ankle injury just to clarify.
if Belinelli does not come down on Troy murphys foot and sprain his ankle, morrow never gets another chance to get signifigant minutes.
by Belinelli's the savior on Aug 1, 2009 11:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
And had monta not used a moped
Marco would probably never had much of a chance too
by mosdl on Aug 1, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another Warrior fan's perspective . . . Wanted to be comprehensive so sorry if I am repeating some others' takes.
Asking #1: Was this a complete anomoly, much like his summer league performance a few years back?
No, it was more like you caught at the very end of his best month as an NBA player. In fact, the very next game he scored 6pts on 1-8 in 30 minutes. He had two decent games out of the next six (10.4 pts on 39% shooting) prior to his injury. He hasn’t been consistently good before or since December of 2008.
Asking #2: What went wrong in Golden State? Is it simply a numbers game and that Belinelli is less talented than the rest of the current players at his position? Or, is it the circus of a front office (and the politics that came with that)?
Nothing went wrong. For 90% of his career, he didn’t play because he refused to play defense, took crazy shots (I hope you like 26’ fade-side-aways) and refused to go to the D-League to work on his game. He started to get minutes when he started to defend and make plays for others. There is a reason DeMarcus Nelson and a one-armed C.J. Watson (torn elbow ligament!) were ahead of him to start the season.
Your second question nailed it. By the end of the season, the coaching staff and FO had Jackson, Ellis, Morrow and C.J. Watson legitimately in front of him on the depth chart. Then Stephan Curry, who apparently is like porn for old-school coaches, fell to them in the draft. That puts him as their sixth combo guard on the depth chart. I don’t see how politics would have anything to do with it based on his competition for playing time.
Asking #3: There seems to be some sentiment that if Belinelli doesn’t get minutes however, he could cause a disturbance in the locker room. Is there anything to support this?
Never until this until after the trade. Considering this isn’t exactly a team that has a track record of keeping internal strife hidden from the media, I don’t think there’s too much to worry about.
Asking #4: One player readers keep comparing him to is former Raptor Jason Kapono. Although Kapono could shoot he was an atrocious defender. Is Belinelli really that bad a defender?
Belinelli, for 2 months was a pretty good defender based on what I observed, less so after the injury. I don’t know anything about defensive metrics so that’s all I got. Like any other reasonably athletic NBA player, if he gives the effort, he can defend pretty well. The bad news is, it took him 1.5 years of being benched before he decided to give that effort. Does your coaching staff have the patience and willingness to make that a pre-condition for playing time?
Is there another NBA player who might be a better comparison (please say yes!)?
Be Careful what you ask for . . . To steal from Atma:
Player A – Per 36: FG: 40.4% 3P: 34.7% FT: 84.3% TRB: 3.0 AST: 4.6 STL: 1.2 BLK: 0.3 TOV: 2.3 PTS: 16.8
Player B – Per 36: FG: 42.9% 3P: 39.5% FT: 77.0% TRB: 3.3 AST: 3.3 STL: 1.3 BLK: 0.0 TOV: 2.3 PTS: 15.0
Player C – Per 36: FG: 44.7% 3P: 45.4% FT: 84.7% TRB: 3.5 AST: 1.7 STL: 1.3 BLK: 0.1 TOV: 1.3 PTS: 14.0
Which one would you rather have?
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Aug 1, 2009 1:40 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Which one would you rather have?
Wait, do I have to take one of these guys? None of them appear to be any threat to rebound the ball. I have to choose between the guy who can’t shoot, but does, but at least appears to have some slight ability pass, albeit not really what I’d want in a point guard, a guy who looks like he can shoot, but doesn’t appear to know how to pass and a guy who sort of sits in between the two, not really doing any of it well enough to justify any excitement, not quite horrible enough to care about.
Can I not want any of them? Tell me who gets paid the least. Or who comes off the books the soonest. That’s the one I want to get rid of the least.
(BTW, you credited player B with an extra .4 rebounds. Were those style points?)
by jae on Aug 1, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: BTW, you credited player B with an extra .4 rebounds. Were those style points?
Cut and paste error. Double-pasted the assists. The SB Nation interface isn’t really conducive to tabular posts so I had to do one at-a-time and was doing it quickly.
What I usually do if I want to paste lots of numbers is dump them into Excel, save it as a image file and then upload it to Flickr and post as an image. I imagine there is a more elegant method, if you have one I am all ears.
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Aug 1, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately, I do not. Struggling with tables is one of the reasons I present fewer numbers than I probably should.
by jae on Aug 1, 2009 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
IQofaWarrior + bloodsweatndonuts- Thank you both for taking the time to go through questions 1-4.
Any more takers for Q1-Q4? I mean that’s the whole point of the Asking GSoM segment.
Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!"
by Atma Brother ONE on Aug 1, 2009 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think next time
you should collapse all of your questions into 1 section. At first glance, it looks like the questions were directed at you and only you, like interview questions.
by IQofaWarrior on Aug 1, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s a great idea. I’ll make sure to do that next time.
Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!"
by Atma Brother ONE on Aug 1, 2009 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Outstanding
This is exactly what we were looking for.
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Aug 1, 2009 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sweet, can I get a complimentary 1996 Oliver Miller road jersey so I can scare Don Nelson?

Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Aug 1, 2009 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love how you call Canada our unarmed neighbours to the north.
When alot of Canadian soldiers are dying for us in Iraq. Real classy.
I know it was meant as a joke but that’s not funny at all.
by Mathodical on Aug 2, 2009 10:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I know it was meant as a joke but that’s not funny at all.
especially in our ghettos and barrios where guns are destroying our youth.
" I hear the ancient footsteps like the motion of the sea
Sometimes I turn, there's someone there, other times it's only me
I am hanging in the balance of the reality of man
Like every sparrow falling, like every grain of sand."
by Skeptic con Urquell on Aug 2, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When alot [sic] of Canadian soldiers are dying for us in Iraq.
To date, 5.
by jae on Aug 2, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
YOU TELL THAT TO THEIR FAMILIES, JAE! YOU TELL THAT TO THEIR FAMILIES!
Thing C
by markdash on Aug 2, 2009 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
5 deaths count
But to say there dying for us is not true, terrorism is a global problem, it’s easy for Canada to hide behind the military might of the USA, we provide protection for our friends from the north,
I hardly view them as foreigners, more like our northern brothers, we’re almost joined at the hip, I think of Canada as our back yard, the only thing i got aganist them was burning down the first White House =)
by ForestGrump on Aug 2, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Terrorism is a global problem
Sure. It also has little to do with Iraq, which I believe was the topic.
it’s easy for Canada to hide behind the military might of the USA
True. It’s also easy for us Americans (who have done nothing in particular to “deserve” our nationality, other than chancing to be born here) to bask in the reflected glory of our country’s bloody military victories and puff up and act like they make us somehow more “manly” than our Canadian neighbors.
I hardly view them as foreigners, more like our northern brothers,
How enlightened of you. Out of curiosity, does your feeling of fraternity extend beyond North America (for example, to our brethren in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East), or are those guys someone else’s brothers?
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Aug 2, 2009 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Grump-it’s easy for Canada to hide behind the military might of the USA
Sleepy says True. It’s also easy for us Americans (who have done nothing in particular to "deserve" our nationality, other than chancing to be born here) to bask in the reflected glory of our country’s bloody military victories and puff up and act like they make us somehow more "manly" than our Canadian neighbors.
This is asinine, every single American shares in both the shame and glory of this country, even if they haven’t been called to arms yet, who the hell do you think you are to define the rights of citizenship, you sound like a dang gone goofball.
Grump says-I hardly view them as foreigners, more like our northern brothers,
Sleepy- How enlightened of you. Out of curiosity, does your feeling of fraternity extend beyond North America (for example, to our brethren in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East), or are those guys someone else’s brothers?
This is a good example of an outright cynic who assumes they know how other people feel when they don’t even know who the hell there talking to, I don’t use words like this often, but your quite the creep Sleepy Freak, has a poetic sound does it not?
Besides that this is a sports forum, and my own family live in both Europe and Canada, so you are way out of bounds little guy.
by ForestGrump on Aug 2, 2009 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
who the hell do you think you are to define the rights of citizenship, you sound like a dang gone goofball.
Where did I “define the rights of citizenship?” I’m simply making an observation about the rather superior tone with which Americans frequently talk about Canadians. Seriously, man chill out. Is it time for your meds?
This is a good example of an outright cynic who assumes they know how other people feel when they don’t even know who the hell there talking to, I don’t use words like this often, but your quite the creep Sleepy Freak, has a poetic sound does it not?
Haha. A simple question. I wasn’t assuming anything, just taking your words at face value. Non-Canadian foreigners: brothers, or something less than brothers?
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Aug 2, 2009 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where did I "define the rights of citizenship?" I’m simply making an observation about the rather superior tone with which Americans frequently talk about Canadians. Seriously, man chill out. Is it time for your meds?
Why would you even mention that to me? obviously I don’t have that kind of attitude towards our next door neighbors?
I think it’s great they are a part pro sports, it helps connect us together.
You just come across as such a snot a__, I have no idea why you feel you have to hound me on every post? do you see yourself as the forum watch dog ?
You have underestimated me my friend;
I’m here to talk sports, you have made your point that you don’t appreciate my point of view, but your never going to win that argument with me by trying to belittle every thing i say, your only going to make an adversary.
by ForestGrump on Aug 2, 2009 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Butthead, I'm not threatning you at all =)
by ForestGrump on Aug 2, 2009 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
perhaps you two could meet on the white house lawn and have a beer?
by hardcore on Aug 2, 2009 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
perhaps you two could meet on the white house lawn and have a beer?
Maybe meet with Willie and Don on the roof, that’s where I hear theses trades have been discussed =)
by ForestGrump on Aug 2, 2009 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Technically speaking
That one’s Beavis. You must really be old.
We still believe!!
Become a fan on facebook! www.facebook.com/goldenstateofmind
by R Dizzle on Aug 3, 2009 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Terrorism is a US problem, but since 9/11, became a world problem because of the USA’s ability to set the global agenda. (Which is not to say terrorism does not exist anywhere else or threaten anyone else, it has always existed, but was not on top of Canada’s to-do list I’d imagine. Though I could be wrong.)
by belilaugh on Aug 4, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

you’re right, terrorism has been a world problem long before 9/11, and since, of course how one defines “terrorist” attack is another conversation
by hardcore on Aug 4, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he was saying it wasn’t a world problem until the U.S. made it a world problem post 9/11. If I understand him correctly, what he’s saying is terribly inaccurate.
Thing A
by sam23 on Aug 4, 2009 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe I gotta go back to reading comprehension class? – I read “it has always existed” by belilaugh, and when USA put attention on it (“set the global agenda”) the rest of the world noticed …
by hardcore on Aug 5, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You got it. Not that it wasn’t a world problem. But the USA, as the most powerful country in the world, made it THE world problem. Like I said, I have no idea what Canada’s government focused on before 2001, but my guess is they were not focused on terrorism as their main issue. After 9/11, terrorism was everyone’s main issue.
Thank you. I never know if I’m making sense because I usually have to clarify every political post I write multiple times, but I’m not sure how much of that is me and how much of that is the people needing clarification.
by belilaugh on Aug 7, 2009 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually it’s more so Afghanistan. You still get the idea
by Mathodical on Aug 2, 2009 10:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think of Canada as our back yard,
that’s gonna make them feel a whole lot better.
" I hear the ancient footsteps like the motion of the sea
Sometimes I turn, there's someone there, other times it's only me
I am hanging in the balance of the reality of man
Like every sparrow falling, like every grain of sand."
by Skeptic con Urquell on Aug 2, 2009 4:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think of Canada as our back yard,
that’s gonna make them feel a whole lot better.
How would you know ? are you trying to get on my nerves by following me around the forum with your not so funny attempt at humor?
by ForestGrump on Aug 2, 2009 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How would you know ?
cause that would piss anyone off .
" I hear the ancient footsteps like the motion of the sea
Sometimes I turn, there's someone there, other times it's only me
I am hanging in the balance of the reality of man
Like every sparrow falling, like every grain of sand."
by Skeptic con Urquell on Aug 2, 2009 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I find him pretty funny. Cept when he makes jabs at my stand-up comedy abilities. I’ll have you know Skeptic I do practice standing up.
I even write my jokes for GSoM standing up.
Your move.
We still believe!!
Become a fan on facebook! www.facebook.com/goldenstateofmind
by R Dizzle on Aug 3, 2009 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do practice standing up.
I never practice and I rarely fall over?
" I hear the ancient footsteps like the motion of the sea
Sometimes I turn, there's someone there, other times it's only me
I am hanging in the balance of the reality of man
Like every sparrow falling, like every grain of sand."
by Skeptic con Urquell on Aug 3, 2009 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm…this turned into one of the worst front page discussions I’ve seen. Way too many pointless arguments.
To actually discuss the point – Belinelli is an incredibly bad rebounder, and that’s very unlikely to change. He’s a good shooter, and he’s shown some ability to score efficiently. He doesn’t bring much more than that at the moment, but maybe he can improve the rest of his offensive game. Defensively, when he’s putting the effort in, he can do more than most of our team, which isn’t saying anything. He’s not a great defender, but he isn’t terrible, either. Overall, given his age and inexperience, he’s probably a nice player for the Raptors to pick up. With some development he can be a solid bench guy, but it’s probably unlikely he’ll ever be much more than that. Good pickup for the Raptors, because why not? Not much of a loss for the Warriors.
by Missing Barry on Aug 2, 2009 7:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Good pickup for the Raptors, because why not? Not much of a loss for the Warriors.
Exactly.
If he commits to defense, he might be able to put enough pressure on people on the perimeter to negate the ill-effects of his unacceptable (even for a guard) rebounding. He could be a acceptable complementary part (or, with some encouraging words for Bargnani, a complimentary part). If not, he could play enough to score enough points to get a largely undeserved raise such that he can be another of the "too much for what he actually brings to the table salaried players that clog up so many rosters and create cap congestion. The league is full of them. Score points, get paid, the rest of the game and wins be damned.
by jae on Aug 2, 2009 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm…this turned into one of the worst front page discussions I’ve seen. Way too many pointless arguments.
Amen. I’d love to be part of the solution and do what I can, but I’m seriously at a complete loss at what I can do here. Other suggestions? Thanks.
Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!"
by Atma Brother ONE on Aug 2, 2009 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not too much you could have done about it
The top half turned into an Andrea Bargnani argument. Most of the rest was a Marco argument. And then there was the ForestGrump/Sleepy Freud show.
Based on the Bargnani arguments, I can only guess that the Raptors fans have as much emotional investment into Bargnani as many Warriors fans have invested for Marco. Thus, all it took was for jae to mention that Bargnani was the worst 7-ft rebounder, and there goes the fireworks.
As for your fanpost, the two things I would have thrown out would be the line “unlike that silly and unnecessary extension for quite possibly the worst rebounding big man in the league, but that’s another story for another time” and the Craptor pic. Those are off topic, and are not welcoming and inviting for Raptors fans to have a discussion. Instead, they are more likely to promote an air of non-Marco related fighting and arguing. Now it’s tough to tell how much or even if they contributed to this discussion going bad, but if you want to eliminate yourself from being a potential variable of bad discussions, that’s the stuff that I suggest should be left out.
by IQofaWarrior on Aug 2, 2009 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I promise the next time the subject of someone’s overpaid (or soon to be overpaid) lousy-rebounding big man who doesn’t appear to make his team better and, apparently, who I’m not able to say anything about unless I watch him every game despite abundant statistical evidence that he’s a negative to his team, I’ll bit my tongue. I should have learned after Hawes. If Channing Frye’s fans or a Glen Davis booster club show up and start posting here, I really will try to behave myself.
My bad.
by jae on Aug 2, 2009 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
jae
I thought the discussion was on Marco and the trade? I fail to understand what there center had to do with that?
I may be mistaken but that seemed to deviate the discussion to other issues.
Am I missing the point?
by ForestGrump on Aug 2, 2009 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was talking about Marco's rebounding
and he was summarizing the Raptor’s rebounding as a whole.
by IQofaWarrior on Aug 2, 2009 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was talking about Marco’s rebounding
So your saying that was in line with the discussion? then why the concern? all’s fair in love and war?
Marco hasn’t rebounded very well that’s a fact, so I guess if you critique the trade you have to consider that aspect of it, they have not helped there team rebounding.
So then what’s the big deal?
by ForestGrump on Aug 2, 2009 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not blaming you
That’s just the way the conversation evolved. It’s better than those idiotic post game FOOD threads we had last season. Ugh.
by IQofaWarrior on Aug 2, 2009 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Food thread? The only food thread is that Cohan is saving enough money for 2.9 million Jack-in-the-box tacos.
We’re all supposed to get tacos.
I’ll take mine to go.
by jae on Aug 2, 2009 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was a season ticket holder for me and two of my boys the year they handed out the Chalupa’s, the first night we each got a handful of tickets by the rookie doorman, I think we had over fifty tickets, then we keep winning and running up the score, the people at the Taco Bell hated to see us coming :)
I had to give away most the tickets because those Chalupa’s got old in a hurry.
Cohan wanted to buy a bigger boat so he could sit out in the bay during the Giants games, didn’t you know that?
by ForestGrump on Aug 2, 2009 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it would have been better if you just picked up on the fact that the guy was going to ignore all evidence that didn’t match his believe earlier. At that point there’s no real reason to discuss the issue anymore. Some people are just idiots*.
*Never argue with an idiot. They’ll bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
by Missing Barry on Aug 3, 2009 7:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never argue with an idiot. They’ll bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
That’s the best piece of advice I have seen in a long time, thanks for that:
I’m going to assume you miss Rick Barry by your handle ? would you be interested in him as a coach? it seems he wanted to join the GSW in some capacity as an assistant or even a shooting coach ,but he has been thoroughly snubbed.
That’s to bad because he was nothing but a winner and has a very quick mind, he would make a heck of a coach after a couple years in grooming.
Grump
by ForestGrump on Aug 3, 2009 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s more of a Barry Bonds thing. I wasn’t expecting to ever join the Warriors SBN, but crazier stuff happens…
Honestly, I’ve heard that Rick is a jerk. Obviously he was a great player and I’m sure he has a lot he could contribute, but I don’t know what kind of reaction his personality would get.
Of course, all this coming from someone with a name supporting Barry Bonds, but whatever….
by Missing Barry on Aug 3, 2009 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
IQofaWarrior is on point, only add some minor points:
it’s the offseason – remember last summer? this isn’t the time of year we strut our best stuff
we’ve gotten into some habits about correcting every little typo and that’s gotten under people’s skin – rightly so & the percentage of the pissing matches over that single thing makes it worth thinking about …
and it’s a blog, disagreement happens – it’d be nice if we could refocus onto hoops more quickly but not sure how to institute that …
by hardcore on Aug 2, 2009 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and it’s a blog, disagreement happens – it’d be nice if we could refocus onto hoops more quickly but not sure how to institute that …
On a typical message board there are options for private messages. Usually people who have arguements deviating from the topic at hand should take their pissing matches to PM’s so the actual topic will stay on-topic, but I’m not sure if SBNation has a PM function.
by WYK on Aug 2, 2009 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
we’ve gotten into some habits about correcting every little typo and that’s gotten under people’s skin – rightly so
Is my punctuation and spelling really that bad ? =)
by ForestGrump on Aug 2, 2009 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amen. I’d love to be part of the solution and do what I can, but I’m seriously at a complete loss at what I can do here. Other suggestions?
There is only one answer to this……..Bring back Marco !! =) or admit we made a mistake !! =)
Also that PIC of butthead is offensive =)
Nothing wrong with a good heated discussion, the Iraq war comments were unnecessary, I was attempting to do some damage control, maybe delete them and this one with it.
Anything I can do just let me know:
by ForestGrump on Aug 2, 2009 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that PIC of butthead is offensive =)
He’s probably more offended that you are calling him butthead?
" I hear the ancient footsteps like the motion of the sea
Sometimes I turn, there's someone there, other times it's only me
I am hanging in the balance of the reality of man
Like every sparrow falling, like every grain of sand."
by Skeptic con Urquell on Aug 2, 2009 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Psst … would it change anything if I told you that was Beavis? ;-)
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Aug 3, 2009 7:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
would it change anything if I told you that was Beavis? ;-)
haha, that was my point, Beavis was offended!
" I hear the ancient footsteps like the motion of the sea
Sometimes I turn, there's someone there, other times it's only me
I am hanging in the balance of the reality of man
Like every sparrow falling, like every grain of sand."
by Skeptic con Urquell on Aug 3, 2009 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never argue with an idiot. They’ll bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
You got me on that one, I don’t know them well enough to know the difference =)
by ForestGrump on Aug 3, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL, the blue part was not meant to be in that post ha!, my copy and paste didnt work, that was to Barry.
This was to Sleepy.
would it change anything if I told you that was Beavis? ;-)
You got me on that one, I don’t know them well enough to know the difference =)
In times like these, we need an edit button !!
by ForestGrump on Aug 3, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Amen. I’d love to be part of the solution and do what I can, but I’m seriously at a complete loss at what I can do here. Other suggestions? Thanks.”
I mean, I don’t see much you can do. If people want to argue over stupid stuff, they’re free to make that decision. I think the best you can do is kindly remind everyone that not every comment warrants a response. That is, sometimes a comment or even a conversation gets to the point where it’s just not worthy of being responded to. People often forget that on the internet and feel the need to respond to every point a person makes, even if that person is just rambling on about things that are wrong and/or don’t make sense.
by Missing Barry on Aug 3, 2009 7:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but I’m seriously at a complete loss at what I can do here. Other suggestions?
ban everyone over 13 ? The kids don’t look so bad now.
" I hear the ancient footsteps like the motion of the sea
Sometimes I turn, there's someone there, other times it's only me
I am hanging in the balance of the reality of man
Like every sparrow falling, like every grain of sand."
by Skeptic con Urquell on Aug 2, 2009 9:12 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Haha
Rec. The “grownups” (me included) and Craptors Nation can take full credit for this debacle….
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Aug 2, 2009 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Andrea Bargnani
I understand this is a Warriors page but I read some negative comments about Bargnani above which amounted to his re-signing in Toronto as bad for Toronto because he could not rebound.
As someone who has watched the Raptors game in and game out since Bargnani was drafted and previous to that, I can say his defense and rebounding were awful for the first half of his first year, and have improved gradually since then. His defense is now at the age of 23 slightly above average(surprising I am sure to those who only know him by reputation) and his rebounding slightly below average (not worse).
His stats in rebounding will never show his improvement completely as he is positioned on the perimeter so much on offense and in years past even would guard more agile players on defense, which took him away from rebounding position. His rebounding last year was inconsistent, not consistently bad. He still has a Pau Gasol frame of mind, a more skilled and finesse type game, like Okur even, and needs to be reminded to focus on rebounding. Different from all of his offensive abilities that are still developing, rebounding is not a natural skill for him.
Overlooked is his defense, still a work in progress, but already he is a quality defender who can move his feet to guard quicker players and yet has the size to guard big men on the interior and average over a block a game which will probably only increase.
Fact is that if he lost his ball handling ability and his jump shot he could probably have the ability to average about 8 or 9 rebounds per game in the NBA, instead of the five and a half with the maximum of about 7 or so he will work his way up to.
Another fact is scouting for other teams have said how much they think of his game and most other teams in the NBA would want this guy on their team. if his game was the same but he was not seven feet tall then he would not get this type of criticism, even so what he would bring to a team would be the same. He developed quite quickly (by any realistic measure) into someone special last year when he was given the starting spot and the fact Toronto gave him a long term deal is only a good thing for Toronto. He will be a premiere offensive starter in the NBA for years who will bring a lot to Toronto, even if not in the form of improving greatly their stats in rebounds, and that is and will be completely obvious to anybody who watches or watched last year Raptors’ games regularly with an open mind.
by Jeffors on Aug 6, 2009 1:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Just to throw some facts out there: his rebounding is truly awful. That is not disputable. 5.5-6 rebounds per 36 minutes is truly, truly horrible for a big man. For some perspective, Okur averages about 9 rebounds per 36, which is 50% more than Bargnani. Gasol also averages about 9 per 36. Nowitzky averages ~8.5, still a large amount more than Bargnani. This is an aspect that has only slightly improved in his career, and is a stat that stays very, very consistent over players careers. There are only a handful of players that show significant improvement in this ability. Any counter argument, frankly, is bogus – any method you can possibly think of to measure his effect on his teammates rebounding show he doesn’t do anything to improve the team rebounding when he’s on the court. It’s always hard to hear things about the players you root for, but there’s really no defense for his rebounding. It is that bad.
by Missing Barry on Aug 6, 2009 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

by 


























