New Found Trade Money: Warriors can now trade Speedy Claxton and Acie Law
It has been a long, intriguing (Amare Stoudemire rumors and Stephen Curry pick), but mostly unproductive offseason for the Golden State Warriors following their absolutely dismal 2008-2009 season. Radical upgrades were almost promised if not strongly intimated by the organization at the beginning of the offseason. However all we've really seen from this front office and ownership are some financial moves. It looks like they're content to being sub-mediocre next season (again x15). Barring some miraculous player development, the Warriors are about to miss the playoffs for the 15th time in 16 years under Chris Cohan's incomptent ownership. That's.. a joke that no one's laughing at anymore.
But today Tuesday August 25th brings some hope. Jump to see why.
When the Warriors pulled the trigger on a Jamal Crawford for Acie Law and Speedy Claxton swap with the Atlanta Hawks (read: contract dump) right before draft day 2009 they picked up two very valuable expiring contracts totaling ~$7.4 million.
Remember Pau Gasol for a package "centering" around Kwame Brown's $9 million expiring contract? It's Dubs time. (fingers crossed)
Some possibilities:
Andris Biedrins + Speedy Claxton + Acie Law to the Phoenix Suns for...
Amare Stoudemire [ESPN Trade Machine]
Just sync up with Horace Grant for some goggle fitting and we're good to go!
via www.nba.com
Suns get: A young, elite rebounder who scores extremely efficiently, plus $7.4 million in expiring contracts of which a huge chunk of the $5.2 million they might not actually have to pay (Claxton injury insurance). This shows the Suns are committed to rebuilding, not wavering with an expensive payroll.
Warriors get: An absolutely lethal scoring big man who would be their first All-NBA representative since that guy who had some trouble feeding him family.
Related:
- Polling GSoM: Which forward should have a better career based on their first two seasons in the NBA?
- RUMOR: Ric Bucher thinks Amare Stoudemire to Warriors still happens
- RUMOR: Amare Stoudemire not that interested in the Warriors
- Weighing the Rumor: cases for and against a deal for Stoudemire
- RECAP: Warriors' 2009 NBA Draft Day - Stephen Curry & Amar'e
- Warriors Draft Day 2009: This Pretty Much Says It All
- RUMOR: Warriors inquired about Suns' Amare Stoudemire and offered Andris Biedrins
Andris Biedrins + Brandan Wright + Corey Maggette + Speedy Claxton + Acie Law to the Phoenix Suns for...
Amare Stoudemire + Jason Richardson [ESPN Trade Machine]
We're already half way there!
Suns get: A fresh start.
Warriors get: In addition to Amar-apostrophe-e to Warriors get a do-over on that silly 2007 draft day swap of J-Rich for Brandan Wright (albeit after some playoff trips left on the table). Does anyone really doubt Nellie can't inflict some serious nightly mayhem on the rest of the association with this lineup?
PG: Monta Ellis
SG: Jason Richardson
SF: Stephen Jackson
PF: Anthony Randolph
C: Amare Stoudemire
Bench: Kelenna Azubuike, Anthony Morrow, Stephen Curry, Ronny Turiaf
Corey Maggette + Speedy Claxton to the Utah Jazz for...
Carlos Boozer [ESPN Trade Machine]
via www.espn.go.com
Jazz get: The powerful scoring and rebounding swingman that has eluded them for quite some time plus they cut some of their payroll and cut ties with Boozer to open things up for Paul Milsap.
Warriors get: Their best complete low post threat since Wilt Chamberlain. (It's been awhile.)
See: RUMOR: Warriors after Carlos Boozer
Corey Maggette + Speedy Claxton + Acie Law to the Utah Jazz for...
Andrei Kirilenko [ESPN Trade Machine]
Jazz get: To keep Boozer and Milsap down low for an interesting experiment.
Warriors get: The good (Andris Biedrins) and bad (Kirilenko) Ivan Drago.
Andris Biedrins + Speedy Claxton + Acie Law to the Toronto Raptors for...
Chris Bosh [ESPN Trade Machine]
Raptors get: To save themselves from the embarrassment of Bosh ditching them on the open market in the summer of 2010.
Warriors get: A great young starry eyed power forward.
Check out: RUMOR: Warriors targeting Chris Bosh
Corey Maggette + Brandan Wright + Acie Law + Speedy Claxton to Houston Rockets for...
Tracy McGrady [ESPN Trade Machine]
Rockets get: A better shot at seeing the second round of the NBA Playoffs again.
Warriors get: A superstar- Half Man. Half a Season. TMac could potentially be a very nice trade piece come deadline time too. He could be (don't laugh) the final piece for a contender. Plus the Warriors get Maggette's long term deal off the books.
Speedy Claxton + Acie Law to Houston Rockets for...
Shane Battier [ESPN Trade Machine]
Very interesting triple threat strategy!
Rockets get: To accelerate their inevitable rebuilding.
Warriors get: Someone who actually plays defense.
Corey Maggette + Acie Law to LA Clippers for...
Baron Davis [ESPN Trade Machine]
The Dub Life used to be the good life.
via imgs.sfgate.com
Warriors get: An early XMas present for Don Nelson.
Clippers get: An early Xmas present for Mike Dunleavy Sr.
Check out:
- Polling GSoM: Which of these injured players was Baron Davis in 2008-2009?
- RUMOR: Warriors have "strong interest" in Brandon Jennings, but trading for Baron Davis could change that
- RUMOR: Clippers to offer Warriors Baron Davis for Corey Maggette if they land Ricky Rubio in 2009 NBA Draft
- Polling GSoM: Was Robert Rowell right about overriding Chris Mullin's 3 year $39 million extension for Baron Davis?
- Polling GSoM: Baron Davis for Corey Maggette and Marcus Williams
Post any (somewhat) realistic trades you can come up with using the ESPN Trade Machine in the comments. Make sure to give a rationale for all sides involved.
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Comments
I like a few of these ideas. I would love to move Magette and get Kirilenko. Then we just need another backup center, and we’re ready to roll. Of course, if Curry is fantastic at the 1, we ought to trade Ellis so perhaps we ought to hold onto our expirings, until we know more. We have until the trade deadline, after all. We shouldn’t rush things. Let’s make the best trade possible. I predict we will pull the trigger on something, as this is a big year for Nellie. He wants to go out with a bang.
I hate those normal-sized midgets. What are they called again? Oh, yeah. People.
Corey+Speedy+Acie for Tayshaun Prince
Or that Kirilenko trade. Either one I’m much down for. We finally get a DEFENSIVE MINDED player that doesn’t need to take 12-15 shots a game to be satisfied.
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
In my “defensive-minded forward” canon…
KIrilenko > Renaldo “DUI” Balkman > Tayshaun Prince
Yes, I think Balkman is a better player than Prince. If we can’t finaigle a blockbuster for Kirilenko, I’d be down with a smaller deal that brought Balkman here for Law (plus maybe a sweetener of some kind). My guess is that he could be had pretty cheaply: Karl doesn’t seemed to be enamored of him (he only got 14.7 minutes a game last season); the Nuggets are loaded with forwards; and their front office can’t be too thrilled about the recent DUI. But if you’re into rebounding and defense — and into extrapolating per minute numbers — Balkman’s probably good enough to be our starting SF.
Last season per 36 minutes:
12.2 pts (.585 TS%)
9.4 reb
2.2 stl
1.1 blk
1.6 to
A long, athletic, aggressive 24 year-old with that kind of production? Seems like a pretty good fit here. Only problem is, his salary is so low, he wouldn’t do anything to alleviate our logjam at 2-3-4 of “pretty good” players. Sigh. If only we could figure out a way just to make Maggs disappear…
"I’M TAKING YOU TO THE HOLE, WONDERLIC!" [turns ball over] -- markdash
Get off my lawn, hipsters! -- Missing Barry
by Sleepy Freud on Aug 25, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
his salary is so low, he wouldn’t do anything to alleviate our logjam at 2-3-4 of "pretty good"
Which is why Prince or Kirilenko would be a much better idea. Helps us get rid of Maggette’s HORRID contract while being able to take on less years in either Kirilenko or Prince. If we were to get Balkman, that would still leave us with Maggettte, and Balkman would end up a bench warmer, which would make it a pointless trade.
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
by JustSomeName on Aug 25, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed. A deal for Balkman only makes sense if a parallel deal for Maggette (say, for a less productive player with a shorter contract) can be arranged…
"I’M TAKING YOU TO THE HOLE, WONDERLIC!" [turns ball over] -- markdash
Get off my lawn, hipsters! -- Missing Barry
by Sleepy Freud on Aug 25, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions
unless Karl has grown similarly tired of JR Smith’s act (unlikely after the way he produced late last year) and would be willing to send us Smith, Balkman and a contract (Malik Allen) for Maggette and Wright. While I’m dreaming we could still offer Utah a nice chunk of expiring money (Law, Claxton, George, Allen) and Jackson (who might be more appealing to them than Maggette) for Kirilenko and we would have
PG-Monta/Curry/CJ
SG-Morrow/Smith (or Smith/Morrow)
SF-Balkman/Buike/Kirilenko
PF-Randolph/Kirilenko/Balkman
C-Biedrins/Turiaf
…….and then the Giants could trade Aaron Rowand, Justin Miller and Brian Wilson for Carl Crawford and JP Howell…. and then the Niners could trade Alex Smith and Vernon Davis for Matt Ryan and Tony Gonzalez. (sigh)
Thing A
I brought up Balkman
awhile ago when the season ended, and most people on here just sh**ted on the idea. It’s funny how people are on this site, how they say things and have no freaking idea what they’re even talking about. It’s frustrating. But yeah, Balkman would be a great player for the warriors to acquire. He’s very below the radar, young, and defensive.
It’s funny how people areon this site,how they say things and have no freaking idea what they’re even talking about.
Yup, welcome to the real world. Fortunately, you’re free to disagree with them and to formulate and express your own ideas.
I thought I that I had pilfered the Balkman idea from jae, but for all I know I first got it from you. If so, props. He really does seem like a defensive/rebounding diamond in the rough. Only problem, as alluded to above: between Jackson, Maggette, Buike, Wright, and Randolph, how many minutes at forward do we have to spare?
"I’M TAKING YOU TO THE HOLE, WONDERLIC!" [turns ball over] -- markdash
Get off my lawn, hipsters! -- Missing Barry
by Sleepy Freud on Aug 26, 2009 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions
My bad
I’m not trying to sound like “the man” or anything, I just think some people on here conduct way too much criticism without much backing or particular b-ball knowledge..but yes, outside the matrix as well. In an attempt to answer your real question, I’m not sure what we can do with Maggette. Personally, I think he would do well in Cleveland with LeBron. He would be a nice scoring threat LeBron can just dump to and chillax when he’s just scored the last six times in a row, and Shaq is out with injury.
I also like him in Utah because Jerry Sloan likes him in Utah. If he wants Maggette, we should give him Maggette…only problem with this is we will likely want to bring in Kirilenko, which defeats the original purpose of bringing in Renaldo Balkman. If I’m not mistaken, I understand Eddie Curry has an expiring contract that matches Maggette’s…but that’s no good either since New York is wishing for LeBron. So I’m not going to pretend I know the answer and just give you some BS.
Hopefully Nellie can put his ego aside and be patient with what we have. When we have assessed our talent properly, then come all-star weekend, we should have some strong notions whether or not Ellis is going to be a Warrior much longer, whether Curry = immediate translation, and whether or not Nellie was right about Wright giving Randolph hell in their early practice match-ups.
Till then, I would have loved to see us trade Marco B to Denver for Balkman straight up, but I guess that could have never happened. Either way, Balkman here, Balkman there, he fits in better with the Warriors’ system, and wouldnt be getting the desired and probably deserved playing time on either team. I do however believe that he will peak in talent the same time as the majority of our current will, and that makes him an intriguing, underrated, youthful talent that could be had for a reasonable price…IMO.
I mentioned Balkman a few months ago as a trade target who we could obtain, who would improve the team in an area of need, and that wouldn’t require the difficult manipulation of a 17 team trade with 43 players including 31 sign-and-trades. Balkman is a good player, cheap and is on the ascent. He’s not overly exciting, but he’s a good defender who doesn’t do things to expose his weaknesses. He’s also so totally unlike anyone that Nelson would want to acquire that I wouldn’t spend much more thought on it.
yes!
Tayshaun over Kirilenko any day.
Infinite Ammo
The Manhattan Project
The Mississippi Bullet
KiD CuRi
Stack Jack
Beans
Biceps Buike
TMNT
Why?
Because he’s a similar player, only not nearly as good?
"I’M TAKING YOU TO THE HOLE, WONDERLIC!" [turns ball over] -- markdash
Get off my lawn, hipsters! -- Missing Barry
by Sleepy Freud on Aug 25, 2009 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Ugh, I love how we live in a fantasy world where Amare had no eye surgeries
He had two, count em’, TWO eye surgeries! The second one was unexpected. How is this never mentioned? Why are people still pining for this guy?
ES
Don't worry!
Devean George’s a Warrior!
"It is amazing how much can be accomplished if no one cares who gets the credit." - Coach John Wooden
What?!?
As of this voting, we have a bunch of people who would – as part of a larger deal – trade Maggette (a good player, if a bad fit) and Wright (a young player with potential) for Jason Richardson – an over-the-hill guy who we all have fond memories of, but is clearly on the downslope and, furthermore, plays a position where we don’t need help.
If you voted for option 2 over option 1, then you voted for that trade.
That’s mind boggling.
by Ronaldinho on Aug 25, 2009 1:11 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
How about we get Amar’e without giving up Andris Biedrins. I’ve been talking to Suns fans, and I’m at least on the right track:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nwgygj
I hate those normal-sized midgets. What are they called again? Oh, yeah. People.
Kirilenko and Amar’e to the Warriors.
I hate those normal-sized midgets. What are they called again? Oh, yeah. People.
Does not make sense to trade now
Wait until the trade deadline mid-season.
- We’ll better understand how good Curry is and how (or if) he fits with Monta.
- We’ll better understand just how good/valuable Brandan Wright is.
- Other teams will become more desperate to unload salary for 2010 Free Agency.
Unless a team comes knocking on our door with an offer we can’t refuse (something BETTER than Devean George for Belinelli), we should just stay put until the trade deadline.
"We Deserve"
it makes less sense to have 5 point guards and only 4 bigs on the team
to start the season. c’mon dude, this roster is WAY too unbalanced, they have to do something.
Claxton and Law are purely trade pieces on our team, not point guards.
CJ might be with us for only chump change.
I’d be ecstatic if we had 4 healthy bigs getting minutes on a Don Nelson team.
We have enough “point guard”-sized guards, enough swings, and a respectable amount of bigs. There’s nothing wrong with holding on to alot of depth if it means we have the chance to trade for a real difference-maker at the trade deadline.
"We Deserve"
Its insane having 5 PGs clogging the roster, it's a waste of roster space.
I can tell you right now no team has ever opened the season with only 4 bigs on the roster. If Biedrins has to sit for even one game, who the hell plays center when Ronny fouls out? We still need a 3rd center and a 3rd PF, but we have only one open roster spot.
NOT making a move makes no sense.
by Bob on Aug 26, 2009 3:48 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would agree with you if our team had any chance of being more than just an 8th seed team. As it stands, we lack a really good basketball player (or two) from being relevant.
Our goal should be to use what trading pieces we have, at the right time, to get the best possible player(s) we can.
Sacrificing our trade chips just so our roster fits the “standard depth chart” for the first half of the season isn’t going to make us a great team. I’m not even sure Don Nelson knows how to rotate more than 4 bigs into his lineup, he won’t even give minutes to the bigs we already have.
"We Deserve"
"Does not make sense to trade now"
This is not a team that makes strides towards the logical. They always seem to do the WRONG thing at the wrong time. With the exception of the Curry pick, I don’t see Riley/Nelson taking on any potential deals with much finesse. I see Nellie wanting to win as many games as possible as soon as the starting shot goes off. He wants to win now, hence the whole rookie benching debacle.
I’m not saying we won’t wait until the trade deadline(which would definitely be the wise decision for all the reasons you mentioned) but at this point in Nellie’s career, do you think he is willing to set aside his legacy for the better of the team? Of course not. In fact, I think he cares very little for the franchise IMO, and it’s future without him is very low on his priority list. Just my opinion.
Probably true at least. Maybe the GM is smart and talked Nellie down? Or maybe Nellie would be very surprising and is interested in the well being of the organization. If he leaves it worse off, that could hurt his legacy also.
I hate those normal-sized midgets. What are they called again? Oh, yeah. People.
Atma probably wants to buy 2005 Real Estate
Jason Richardson and Amare? Baron and Tmac? Can the team also get stock in Lehman Bros.?
ES
by Free Zarko on Aug 25, 2009 1:56 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Corey+Law for Baron
and not now,its always nice to have Baron as a starting PG and if he gets a serious injury[it’s gonna happen]
Curry and Monta will ALWAYS be his backup…
I don’t know though,I just want to see Baron,Monta,Jackson,Randolph,Biedrins with all of that firepower off the bench.
"IT'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!"
AK47 really?
Are we aware that he is owed $16.4 million next year and $17.8 million the year after? That is a horrible contract for his talent. No thank you. I voted for “What’s the point the warriors aren’t going to do anything” but I liked most of the other trade ideas and think they would make us a better team.
Are we aware that he is owed $16.4 million next year and $17.8 million the year after?
Much better than four more years of Corey Maggette at 10 million per.
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
by JustSomeName on Aug 25, 2009 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That is really debatable.
In fact what has AK done lately.
by crab dribble cocktail on Aug 25, 2009 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions
AK47?
He’s been the biggest and most important defensive factor on that team. If he leaves that team, they’re going to be a shell of what they are now. Who’s gonna stop anybody? Boozer? Okur? D-Will?
Yeah he’s not much of a scorer and he looks awkward on the court, but he does the dirty work and guards the best players, does the little things, and remains a very efficient, versatile option on offense. We have zero players like that right now and we could sure use one.
"We Deserve"
by YaHeard on Aug 25, 2009 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
AK47. Really.
Yes I think most people here are keenly aware of his contract situation. Indeed, his contract is one of the more intriguing about him, in that:
1. It’s just big enough that Utah, who are locked into Millsap, Deron, and Okur, might be interested in moving it — particularly if they can’t find any takers for Boozer.
2. It’s big enough that it would allow us to dump Maggs. Or if they really don’t want Maggs and prefer to make it a complete salary dump, we can get up to the required threshold by packaging an expiring contract-palooza of Buike/Wright/Law/Claxton/George, which would allow them to start re-loading around Deron and Millsap right at the end of this season.
3. In another year or so, the contract ceases to become an albatross and starts becoming pretty alluring.
More importantly: an athletic 6-9" forward in his prime who loves the uptempo game, can defend 2s, 3s and 4s with panache, and can handle, pass, block shots and rebound seems like a perfect fit for this current roster. We’d run a nine-man rotation of:
Monta / Curry
Jack / Morrow
Kirilenko / Maggs or Buike
Randolph / AK
Biedrins / Turiaf
I dunno, to me (and I think a lot of others here) those pieces just seem to fit.
"I’M TAKING YOU TO THE HOLE, WONDERLIC!" [turns ball over] -- markdash
Get off my lawn, hipsters! -- Missing Barry
by Sleepy Freud on Aug 25, 2009 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 9 recs
AK47's best years are behind him
He is now 28 years old with his best year statistically being in 03-04 season, 5 years ago! He averaged 11.6 points, 4.6 boards, and 2.6 assists per game last year. That does not seem worth his contract to me. His blocks per game were also at a career low of 1.1. He still probably would be our best defender and would make our team better but not that much better in my opinion. The main concern with me is that his contract would prevent us from possibly signing a better free agent next summer when there will be better options on the table than AK47.
We have no money under the cap to sign free agents next season either way, so you can put that notion to rest.
Your “per game” figures for AK are accurate, but extremely misleading in that he only played 27.3 minutes a game. Extrapolated to 36 minutes, the numbers are much more impressive:
15.3 pts (55%ts, 78%ft) / 6.3 reb / 3.4 assists / 1.6 stl / 1.5 blk
Further, by plus-minus (8.1) and Roland (8.4), he was the most valuable player on the Jazz by far last season, better than Millsap, significantly better than DWill, miles better than Boozer. This to me suggests a defensive presence that the traditional numbers may not fully capture.
Yes, he’s fallen off from his peak — when he was probably one of the 8 or 10 best players in the NBA. But he’s actually improved from where he was a couple years ago. Age 28 is generally very much a player’s prime, especially for players who keep themselves in as great shape as he does. His contract is actually the perfect length for us in that it takes him right to the age (30-31) where a player can be expected to start declining (unlike Jack’s and Maggs’ deals, which take them a couple years beyond that). And as I alluded to above, I suspect his game is much more suited to Nellieball than to Sloanball.
If we can get them to take Maggs in the deal, it’s a no brainer, imo. And even if we have to keep Maggs and send them our expring-a-palooza, including Buike, it makes a ton of sense.
This diary is actually jumping the gun a bit, in that there’s one last sticking point — the trade restriction on Devean George — before we have all our ducks in a row. If we get to that point and still haven’t traded for Kirilenko, I’ll stop fantasizing. Until then … I believe!
"I’M TAKING YOU TO THE HOLE, WONDERLIC!" [turns ball over] -- markdash
Get off my lawn, hipsters! -- Missing Barry
by Sleepy Freud on Aug 25, 2009 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t really buy that whole increasing minutes to show production. As I saw in a previous post Brandan Wright would be averaging 16.9 points, 8.2 rebounds, and 1.9 blocks per game given 36 minutes which is more production than Kirilenko. My question is, if he is so valuable why is he only playing 27 minutes a game? I also do not remember a time when he was top 10 player in the league.
Wright is not a great defender, while Kirilenko is. Kirilenko may play few minutes due to being injury prone. He’s light and gets pushed around, so he may get muscle fatigue faster. If he’s tired, the chances of him getting injured go up even more.
I hate those normal-sized midgets. What are they called again? Oh, yeah. People.
I don’t really buy that whole increasing minutes to show production.
Whether you buy into it or not, most studies on the subject have shown that players’ per minute production (given a large enough sample size) remains pretty consistent regardless of PT. If anything, players tend to improve slightly given regular rather than sporadic PT. This would make sense anecdotally, given that it’s hard to “get warm” when you’re only playing for short stints at a time.
In AK’s case: the stretch from 27 minutes to 36 is not much of a stretch at all. Do you actually think his game would drop off significantly given those nine more minutes? At the very least, if your goal was to make an honest case that Kirilenko’s numbers were unimpressive, you should have mentioned how minutes he needed to produce them. Without this key bit of context, the numbers you cited are pretty meaningless.
As I saw in a previous post Brandan Wright would be averaging 16.9 points, 8.2 rebounds, and 1.9 blocks per game given 36 minutes which is more production than Kirilenko.
See Nat’s comments regarding AK’s superior defense. AK also handles, passes, shoots from outside, and defends the perimeter well enough to play SF, so citing “big man stats” is a bit unfair. You’re also missing some key context: shooting percentages, for example. Wright, being a good offensive player, actually holds up pretty well in this regard — he and AK have roughly the same TS% career. In any case, citing only points, rebounds, and blocks tells a very incomplete and misleading story.
My question is, if he is so valuable why is he only playing 27 minutes a game?
Question for Jerry Sloan, I guess. If it’s supposed to be a rhetorical question, your logic is circular.
I also do not remember a time when he was top 10 player in the league.
In ‘04/05, Kirilenko averaged 17.1 points (.599 TS%), 6.8 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 3.6 blocks, 1.8 steals per 36 minutes, and managed a plusminus of +11.3. The previous and the following seasons, his numbers, including plus-minus, were similarly stellar. If you can find ten players who were better than him over this three year span (keeping in mind that defense is half the game), I’d be surprised. But knock yourself out.
"I’M TAKING YOU TO THE HOLE, WONDERLIC!" [turns ball over] -- markdash
Get off my lawn, hipsters! -- Missing Barry
by Sleepy Freud on Aug 26, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Superior defense doesn't always show in the books
AK’s finest qualities on the defensive end are not his shot blocking or his steals. He forces people to make passes instead of attempting to score, he bleeds seconds from the opposition’s shot clock, he forces people to take horrible shots, mid-air passes, rushed misses under the glass, and he improves our transition game obviously. Also, he does what falls in the stat book. Numbers don’t always show a player’s worth. Stat geeks need to start watching games closely.
by lilboots on Aug 26, 2009 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Numbers don’t always show a player’s worth.
More often than not, they do.
Stat geeks need to start watching games closely.
We do. We also realize that just watching tends to make you pay attention to a few flashy things and miss other less exciting, but equally important bits of data and watching can make us fall for style over substance.
My mistake, numbers don’t always show a player’s “defensive” worth. I thought that was clear enough given the original context of the comment.
When I use the phrase “stat geek”, I’m not referring to the naturally avid basketball fan, who watches games closely and cohesively. It’s necessary to do both. I watch games, but I also like to see how the games translate into statistics because it’s fun. One shouldn’t do one without the other. An experiment with no data is useless, and conversely. Assuming that I know a little about the game, I can say that I’m interested mostly in a player’s understanding of the game, and how effectively he does what he’s best at doing. The reason why I believe this to be a more effective way to assess talent, to somebody who understands the way the game is played, is because statistics do not always confirm the nuances that make players unique and better than others.
My point was, it’s stupid to assess how well a player defends based on his block/steal per game statistics. I think the two have less to do with defense than most people credit them with. Kirilenko plays premium defense.
There is a reason scouts go out and watch. Defense, especially, must be observed over anything else. We could also mention setting screens for teammates, communicating with teammates and a lot of hustle plays not showing up on stat sheets.
I hate those normal-sized midgets. What are they called again? Oh, yeah. People.
I’m all for the Boozer or Bosh trade, but I really dig the Amare and Richardson trade too. That lineup would be pretty potent (if Amare comes back healthy, which I think is the real reason the Suns are in “rebuilding” mode), plus the bench would be one of the best with good young talent and serviceable veterans.
I like J-Rich over Maggette, but I like Maggette’s 6th man status, and his abilities as a guy who can get to the line.
Essentially, we’re trading Biedins for either Bosh, Amare or Boozer? I’d take that any day of the week… even if Amare doesn’t dig the W’s and signs somewhere else the following season.
Why would we need J-Rich?
Putting everything he did for our franchise aside, why would we want Jason Richardson, when we have Morrow and Azubuike? Jason is a three point shooter, (Morrow is better) he rebounds, (Morrow and Azu do well at this too) he is adequate at getting to the hoop (Curry, Ellis, Maggette, Buike, Jackson all do this) Why do we need Jason back? It’s over. Let it go already.
Battier is an interesting option
He’s lost a step, but his perimeter D is still better than any Warrior’s. And it’ll be harder for Houston to play him and Ariza at the same time than it was for a Battier+Artest combo. Another way to get him would be Azubuike + Law + George, once Devean’s trade restrictions drop. This would give the Rockets a scoring guard to fill in for McGrady when his body inevitably fails him 2 games into the season.
Keep Out Team!
Only trade IMHO is: Speedy, Acie, CJ, and/0r George….. everybody else is a keeper!
Out of the 3 or 4 players always mentioned here, NON OF THEM have taken any team they have been on to a championship! So why all of the dreaming???
Jay-Rich return?
I´m like Andris Biedrins + Brandan Wright + Corey Maggette + Speedy Claxton + Acie Law for AMARE STOUDEMIRE + JASON RICHARDSON
Warriors ¡¡EN ESPAÑOL!!!!
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Best (and worst) of Both Worlds
This is a trade neither the Suns nor the Jazz could refuse. We would be taking a serious gamble here. Fortune favors the bold, though :).
I hate those normal-sized midgets. What are they called again? Oh, yeah. People.
Battier!
If we could get Battier for those goobers this team would be immensely improved. Not only is he a high bb iq, great looker room glue guy, he can pretty much shut down the opposing teams best player. If he plays stopper against the best 2-4 of the other team, Jack would then be free guard the 2nd best 1-2 or 3, Ronny can guard bigs. With two really good defenders in Battier and Jack (when he wants to), the whole idea of playing Monta and Curry at the same time makes a lot more sense. An occasional unit of…
Curry/Monta/Jack/Battier/Turiaf could actually make some defensive stops while maintaining sick speed IMO. Sub in Kaz for Curry in there and that starts to look like a legitimate defensive lineup.
A versatile defensive-minded guy like Battier would be AWESOME for this team
"You don't need money to play this game, you need shoes" -Al Harrington
Maggette for Boozer would be really good for the Dubs, I think.
He expires at the end of the year, had a bunch of trade value, puts up 20/10 regularly.
Can’t really get better than that. AND you get rid of Maggette. The only problem with the deal is that the Jazz would refuse it. :P
I support the Tornado Release [See: Joakim Noah]
this is my first post ever...
so pardon any potential stupidity in my proposal, but based on the some of the nonsense above, I feel no more prefacing is needed.
why not Magette and Beans for Amare? I’m assuming the Suns don’t want that kind of money committed? From a Warriors perspective, I hate to give up the big guy, but love cutting the Magette fat, as there are enough one-dimensional players on this team. If we can’t resign Amare, fine, we have the dough for someone else major to accompany our talented youth, and this gives Nellie a shot at going out with a bang and meaning something more than a big number at the end of his career. That amazing espn trade thing you just taught me seems to think it works straight up on dollars and wins and i think both teams become better.
If Curry hits puberty before the All-Star break, we can make another move with Monta and actually make the playoffs..this year…
Meh
I don’t see the point in trading a leading 6th man candidate and what some would consider a top 5 center, for a formerly great power forward who’s ability is now in question. AR and Amar’e would be worse on D and on rebounding as compared to AR and ‘Dre. Defense and rebounding are certainly more of an issue than scoring for us. 2 power forwards playing together rarely works in this league, unless one of them is Tim Duncan, KG, or Pau who are all better than Amar’e. Amar’e didn’t want to play here if it meant playing without Andris because he know’s this is true. That’s also why I’m not down for Bosh, Boozer couldn’t keep up with us.
Maggette is also a really valuable player to have, particularly as a sixth man. He is the most efficient scorer in the NBA. That’s why Kirilenko is the only trade I would involve him in. We replace a one dimensional scoring machine as a sixth man and swap him for a multi-fasceted player who is better suited to play PF, and instead of providing high volume scoring off the bench (which we’ll have with Morrow and Curry) AK would provide us with much needed defense and rebounding. Most importantly we don’t lose any of our core (Monta, Steph, Jack, Ammo, Buike, AR, Andris). Hands down Maggette and Claxton with either George, Law or BW for AK47 is the best trade.
by myk on Aug 25, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
i hear you on the boards and D and would love to keep beans. anything to dump magette’s contract is good by me. I think Kirilinko is one of the most grossly overpaid players in the league, but at least he is expiring soon and I’d prefer him to Corey…
If we could dump at least 16 mill to get him, I’d be down…
+1
I couldn’t have said it better myself. Bravo, sir.
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
by JustSomeName on Aug 25, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Maggette is mini-amar’e but with a really bad contract and with less skill. Almost no one in the league is interested. We’ll have to bribe someone to take Maggette. Perhaps if we gave them Turiaf, Maggette, Curry and Randolph, they’d consider it.
I hate those normal-sized midgets. What are they called again? Oh, yeah. People.
pardon any potential stupidity in my proposal?
Don’t worry about the potential, worry about the actual.
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Standing on the moon
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On a back porch in July
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At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Aug 25, 2009 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions
best trade idea yet....
We’ll trade Maggette, Acie, DGeorge, and Speedy away for their contract weight in food stamps.
Another way to look at this is to vote on the best lineups post trade
Assuming we can work out extensions for Bosh, Amare or Boozer (it would be tough to do these deals for 1 yr rent a player especailly those where we give up Biedrens) here’s my prefered order:
DO IT IF YOU CAN GROUP
1) Monta/Jack/AR/BOOZER/Beans Bench:Curry/Morrow/Buke/BW/Ronny
—This gives us soooo much flexibility with lineups and while man D is weak, how do we not get EVERY rebound and we have a go to post scorer. I’d sweeten the deal with Jazz to get this one done. Boozer also probably can be resigned/extended for less than Max
2) Monta/Jack/BATTIER/AR/Beans Bench:Same as #1 plus Magette
—Talk about getting something for nothing. This is essentially Al Harrington for Shane Battier (Via Crawford via Clax/Law). We then have two strong wing defenders in Jack and Battier and another threat to shoot/spread the floor for Monta/AR. This is the trade if you believe in the current star potential of Curry/Monta/Randolph.
3) Monta/Jack/AK47/AR/Beans (or Curry with Jack for AK @3)Bench:Same as #2 minus Magette.
—I like #2 much better than this roster-wise but the financial/trade benefits next yr with 17mm expiring is intriguing.
BIG RISK/REWARD + NEED MORE PIECES GROUP
4) Curry/Monta/Jack/AR/Bosh Bench:Same as above plus Magette. This is a truely small ball lineup. Yes we have an All star but no one to defend a strong big. This is also unlikely given that we can’t resign Bosh without dumping another big salary and Toronto would be pretty reluctant to pull the trigger on this.
5) Curry/Monta/Jack/AR/AmareBench:Same as #4. Similar issues as #4 but we’re a little stronger/bigger in the post but less certainty with injuries/attitude.
Basically the rest of the trades proposed are no good for me. The one where we add Maggette and BW for JRich in the Amare trade is silly. (what does JRich add that we don’t already have). TMac is physically done. Bringing Baron back means we need to trade other pieces (Monta) to get rid of an already crowded backcourt plus while I love the guy, Dizzle has lost his sizzle.
question for all JRich backers
For those who want to see JRich return, do you guys really think having him back is healthy for the team, both on the court and payroll wise? We need another reason just to bring sentimentality back to our squad… seriously
How bout we get Bosh and Battier?
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l4fjlr + watson to toronto
PG: Ellis – Curry
SG: Jackson – Morrow
SF: Battier – Maggette
PF: Randolph – Maggs/Turiaf
C: Bosh – Turiaf
And we can probably get a big like Sampson to be a backup as well.
This trade can be interchangeable with Amare instead of Bosh as well.
We could also trade maggs + law/claxton for AK47 instead of Battier at the SF.
Either way, these trades would significantly help our team be more balanced on both ends of the floor.
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Dude, give the Rockets something
You think the W’s are going to get the good end of a deal with Morey?
by findingneema on Aug 25, 2009 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I voted for Bosh
But I’d do the T-Mac one. We get a great contract in terms of cap relief with that.
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what?!
Through 781 votes, the 2nd choice won? That many people think we should trade b wright and corey maggete for j rich? i think boozer or bosh would be the most logical choice. battier would be sick though because we would have like the worst defensive team, but the best defensive player haha.
AK or Battier are the options that bring the most guaranteed benefit to the team.
I would entertain a year of Boozer, but I don’t think he would like getting jerked around by Nelson, and would definitely get in the way of AR.
Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell? Oh no hide the children!
How about getting this trade?
It can’t work until Q Rich’s trade restriction ends in October. But the W’s get Kirilenko for Claxton and Maggette, while the Heat get Boozer for Haslem and Q Rich. The Jazz unload a ton of salary, the Heat get their man, and so do the W’s. Obviously it may take some tweaking, but thoughts?
+1
Really liking that trade, very plausible and benefits for all teams involved. Now to actually get this to go through is another story.
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
by JustSomeName on Aug 25, 2009 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions
One problem is that the Jazz take on more salary (for this season) than they send out. For a team already fairly deep into the tax, I doubt they would want to pay another 2 million or whatever.
Thing C
Yeah, it needs to be tweaked if the Jazz want to avoid the tax, though the Jazz have very few options in that regard. Of course, they could ship Q Rich (or Claxton) before the deadline to get tax relief.
Miami could also ship Dorell Wright instead of Q Rich, but that would be a real fire sale for Boozer. Trade Machine This also cuts almost 5 million off their 09-10 payroll.
by findingneema on Aug 26, 2009 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions
David Lee
never give up AB for a always hurt no D playing Amare. How about trade all of our expiring contracts for David Lee.
Wright
Claxton
Law
Watson
for David Lee in a sign and trade
by big victor alexander on Aug 25, 2009 11:13 PM PDT reply actions
You’re joking, right? David Lee is a bad defender. All he does is rebound and clean up garbage. He’s not even a great scorer. Amar’e isn’t always hurt. He’s had a freak eye injury, but he can wear goggles. I’m not saying we have to have him. He has drawbacks. But David Lee would not make us better. Amar’e would.
I hate those normal-sized midgets. What are they called again? Oh, yeah. People.
David Lee plays no defense. While we could use the rebounding, getting a big that doesnt play defense will not help us make the playoffs. If you dont believe me, watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tqtlpy23Jxw&feature=related
by box707 on Aug 26, 2009 12:18 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
you response is a video of a game where Lee’s assignment is the best center in the league. When your guarding Howard I promise you are instructed to not help off him. If you guys rather give up a top 5 center for Amare or nothing for a hard nose PF you guys what Cohen wants in fans. This team has constantly given up there draft picks right when they are going to peak. If AB didn’t get hurt last year he very well could of been an all star. I might of come across as thinking Davis Lee is the savior, I don’t. my point is the warriors won’t need a big time weak side shot blocker if they have AB. I want a banger! I never want to see somebody get 32 rebounds on us again like David Lee did last year. We don’t need another scorer. Scoring 100 plus is not our problem. Playing tough and not playing little b***h ball is. It’s time for the warriors to toughen up. Losing AB is not the answer. Of course I’ll take Boozer but news flash nobody wants Maggs and his 40 million dollars that won’t help the Jazz cut cost
by big victor alexander on Aug 26, 2009 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I voted based upon your question on which would be most golden...
to me meaning which would be the biggest steal.. I’d have to say maggs+speedy for boozer is the biggest steal.. not only do we get rid of what i feel is a black hole in maggette but we get the premiere “BEEF” that we need to add to our fragile but very talented front line.
BOSH IS STAYING IN TORONTO
There is no way in right mind Toronto would accept any of these proposed deal even if Bosh was to leave. BOSH IS STAYING, he loves the city, the team, and management have built an outstanding young core around him. I understand people want Bosh, but it kills me when I hear ignorant comments like “TO SPARE THE EMBARASSMENT OF BOSH LEAVING TORONTO.” This is one of the best run franchises under the helm of BC as of late, and people underestimate Bosh’s loyalty and the Toronto Raptors presence.
Too right
GSOM is one of those blogs I make a point of checking in on, even though the Ws are not my team. It’s humorous and intelligent – most of the time. This bit about Bosh covers off the humor in spades but doesn’t have a lot of intelligence behind it. There are a lot of cats working on the assumption that Bosh can’t wait to get the hell out of southern Ontario. But if you do just a modicum of homework, you’ll learn that the chances of him bolting via free agency next year are zero. The only way you’re going to land him is in a S&T for max money, so plug that into your trade machine and see what you’ll need to give up. Speedy and Acie?? Put the meth pipe down…
by Asif Fershir on Aug 26, 2009 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Really?
The Raptors just gave $50 mil to ANDREA BARGNANI, possibly one of the worst players in the league.
I know our franchise isn’t the smartest of the bunch, but you’re delusional if you think your “Euro-League All-Star” supporting cast will win enough games to keep Bosh around.
"We Deserve"
the chances of him bolting via free agency next year are zero.
Haha. A little unclear on the concept of “zero chance.” I’d take 2 to 1 odds if someone offered me them. Heck, I’d probably take even money.
In your case, though: I’ll take a million-to-one odds, please. If you don’t give me them, the only conclusion to be drawn is that you’re talking out your posterior.
"I’M TAKING YOU TO THE HOLE, WONDERLIC!" [turns ball over] -- markdash
Get off my lawn, hipsters! -- Missing Barry
by Sleepy Freud on Aug 26, 2009 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions
2 to 1
If I’m talking with my ass, you are thinking with yours, good buddy. Read what I’m saying: Bosh may be on a different team next year, but it won’t be through free agency. He’d be a fool to walk from max money and max years. And if his aspirations to play on a good team leads him to a decision to leave, do you really think he’ll choose Oakland? OK, I won’t hate, I’ve always rooted for the Ws going back to TMC when Toronto didn’t have a team. But saying 2 to 1 odds are reasonable is no less absurd than saying there is zero chance. Irrespective of how Bosh feels about his situation with the Raptors, he is not going to take the free agency route. I speak absolutely, and I believe it absolutely.
by Asif Fershir on Aug 27, 2009 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions
He’d be a fool to walk from max money and max years.
I’m pretty sure there will be at least a couple of other teams with the cap room to offer him a max deal without the contortions of a sign/trade. The Knicks, for one, if they whiff on LeBron. Or Utah, if they can find a taker for Kirilenko. Can’t imagine Utah is the #1 destination for a young African American basketball star, but the opportunity to play in a kickass starting lineup alongside Deron/Millsap/Okur, for an organization with a tradition of winning, could be more appealing than playing with a bunch of mediocre Euros on a crappy team in Canada.
And if his aspirations to play on a good team leads him to a decision to leave, do you really think he’ll choose Oakland?
Er, no. Hello straw man.
But saying 2 to 1 odds are reasonable is no less absurd than saying there is zero chance.
Er, no: it’s (literally) infinitely less absurd. If some dude at a bar offered me 20 bucks to my $10, I would take those odds. On the other hand, I’m still waiting for you to put your money where your mouth is and offer me ten million bucks against my $10. Heck, I’ll fly up to Toronto right now and shake your hand if you show me the money. ;-)
I speak absolutely, and I believe it absolutely.
Well, goodie for you: whatever gets you through the night. Unfortunately, Lady Probability generally prefers not to deal in absolutes.
"I’M TAKING YOU TO THE HOLE, WONDERLIC!" [turns ball over] -- markdash
Get off my lawn, hipsters! -- Missing Barry
by Sleepy Freud on Aug 27, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Crappy team in Canada
Brother, you are right. The math is on your side. However, I feel the free agency route is highly highly improbable with a shrinking cap and the chance at a longer contract by re-upping with his current team. I think the outcome will be the same for LBJ and Wade as well. But I will give you that the chance exists. And you may be right about the team being crappy and made up of mediocre Euros, I have no idea what to expect and I try at all times to resist the homerist urges we all are tempted by. But I don’t think I’m wrong to infer some jingo-related negativity when you tack on “in Canada” at the end of that comment. I’m not going to get on a soap box but I’ll just say: TO is no backwater. Come on up if you haven’t before. I don’t have a million dollars waiting for you, but I’ll be happy to show you around.
by Asif Fershir on Aug 27, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think I’m wrong to infer some jingo-related negativity when you tack on "in Canada" at the end of that comment.
Nah, you’re totally wrong to infer that. I love my Canadian friends and neighbors. I’ve been to Canada a half-dozen times (Vancouver, Québec and maritime provinces) and think it’s an awesome place — more civilized in a lot of ways than my homeland. And yes I am fully aware that Toronto is a thriving international metropolis. I was just trying to look at the situation from the perspective of a US born basketball player, and conjecturing that that Toronto, like Utah or Oakland, is not at the top of the list of desirable hoops destinations.
OK, yeah, I was also probably giving you personally and Raps Nation in general a little friendly dig. Props for taking it in stride. ;-)
"I’M TAKING YOU TO THE HOLE, WONDERLIC!" [turns ball over] -- markdash
Get off my lawn, hipsters! -- Missing Barry
by Sleepy Freud on Aug 27, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess gomez is semi
beef!
Line-up of
M.Ellis
S.Jackson
R.Gomez
A.Randolph
A.Biedrins
6th man: C.Maggette
S.Curry
A.Morrow
K.Azubuike
B.Wright
R.Turiaf
How about this trade?
We can trade Maggette, Wright, and Ellis for Michael Redd and sign and trade for Session starting at around 5 m a year or MLE. We get a true PG who can spread the ball and we get a solid SG who can avg 24 pts a game. This is how our lineup will look:
Starters:
Session
Redd
Jackson
AR
Biedrins
Backups:
Curry/CJ
Morrow
Buike
Devan George (Until we trade him along with Law and Claxton)
Turiaf
I believe Redd if healthy is a better player than Ellis and I will take Session any day over Maggette. What you guys think?
Waaaarroirs
LMAO
Giving up Monta for Redd is mindblowingly insane
Why don’t we give up Biedrins for Dan Gadzuric too?
We dont need Monte
Dude, Monte aint all that. You need to wake up and realize that Redd is a much better player than Ellis, he can defend, shoot the three and attack the basket. Even if you think Ellis is better than Redd, we dont need him in this team especially with his large contract. We have so many similar players, like Ellis and Curry, Buike and Maggette, Wright and AR, Morrow and Rocky (before we traded him), therefore, we need to replace those players with bad contracts. We get rid of Maggette, Ellis and Wright for a true young PG who would cost maximum 5 yrs of MLE and Michael Redd who is on his prime and one of the players that played for team USA. I guess you would take Ellis to team USA since he is better than Redd. Redd is an all star and can command double team or take the final shot in the game, he is player that will elevate this team to the playoff along with the rest of the crew. Btw, everyone knows that this team now with this current roster can’t take us to the playoff. So again, What I will ignore your post and wait for others to respond. So what u guys think of this line up:
Session
Redd
Jackson
Anthony Randolph
Biedrins
Waaaarroirs
Dude, Monte aint all that.
Its pretty shocking how quickly we forget how good Monta was in his last healthy season. Sure he’s flawed, but if he’s back to 100% he’s pretty freakin good.
You need to wake up and realize that Redd is a much better player than Ellis, he can defend, shoot the three and attack the basket.
Redd’s defense isn’t really that good. Its a poor measure of defense, but Ellis does average more than a half a steal more per 36 mins than Redd. Redd shoots a lot of 3’s, but he’s not a great 3 pt shooter. He’s a career 38.6% 3 point shooter….thats pretty good, but its not great. He hasn’t shot over 40% from long range in 6 years and the last two years he’s been shot a very Stephen Jackson-esque 36% from 3 point range. He was 79th in the league in 3pt% last season just behind sharpshooters like Ryan Gomes and Larry Hughes and just barely ahead of long range marksmen like Al Harrington and Jamal Crawford. Redd’s free throw shooting is great and he’s ok from inside the arc so his TS% is an impressive 56.3%, but in his last full year Ellis was at 58%. Redd is bigger than Ellis, but he doesnt rebound much, if at all, better. He doesn’t pass the ball very well either.
We have so many similar players, like Ellis and Curry, Buike and Maggette, Wright and AR,
Other than their heights, weights, and physical builds how are any of those players at all similar? Redd and Morrow seem far more similar to me than Ellis and Curry.
Michael Redd who is on his prime and one of the players that played for team USA. I guess you would take Ellis to team USA since he is better than Redd.
Michael Redd is 30. Ellis is 24. You’d rather have the 30 year old because he’s “on his prime”? Redd was on team USA only because he has a reputation as a good outside shooter and thats where the team was coming up short in international competition. I honestly think Jason Kapono would’ve been just as justified of an addition as Redd. I’m not sure if Redd or Prince was the worst player on team USA last year but there was a wide gap between the two of them and the next worst player on the team. Iguodala wasn’t on Team USA, is Redd better than Iguodala too? The “he’s on Team USA argument so he must be great” argument is an awful one. Its almost as bad as the “Redd is an all star” argument……..oh wait, you made that one too. Redd’s contract is much worse than Monta’s. The fact that he only has one more year left is the only thing that makes it better than Maggette’s contract. 17 million for Redd is pretty ridiculous. Sure, I’d love to swap Maggette for him but I wouldn’t give up Monta just to get it done.
I love Sessions, but if we wanted him I don’t know why we wouldn’t be throwing MLE money at him right now. Even with Sessions, who I think is an upgrade at PG, I think your proposed lineup is quite a bit worse than what we’re looking at right now.
Thing A
I concur. I don’t know why people keep underestimating Ellis. When he was healthy, he was an unstoppable force on offense. If he averages 50FG%, then we can start talking about trading him for something much better than Redd. Redd ain’t bad, but he won’t be much help to us at all. Then again, the trade involved dumping Maggette’s contract, so it’s not as bad as we’re making it out.
I hate those normal-sized midgets. What are they called again? Oh, yeah. People.
Bosh for who?
Ok. We get it. You want to get rid of Claxton and Law. The Raps will trade you Marcus Banks and Chris Bosh’s athletic support (from 3 seasons ago) for that dynamic duo. Randolph and Steph Curry for Bosh. How’s that sound? What? Too ridiculous? Sheesh. Go figure.
I wouldn't give up that match of a talent
That trade was done through Espn trade machine, I doubt that Raptors would trade Bosh for Law, Claxton and Biedrins. At the same time, why give up your best assets for a player who might not sign an extension cause as rumor goes, he might sign with Chicago next year. Personally, I am not a fan of Bosh, I rather get Amare instead.
Waaaarroirs
BATTIER
all the warriors would have to give up for battier is claxton and law. i’d do that trade in a heart beat
This assumes that Battier is on the trading block for nothing but expiring contracts. I don’t really see why this would be true. He’s an effective player for Houston and he’s not breaking their balance sheet. Morey appears to appreciate what he does for their team. Houston will likely have some cap room to work with, but with or without Battier, I don’t see them breaking the bank in free agency and as such, I don’t see how the expiring contracts on their own really appeal to Houston.
Bring him here
I like Battiers game and defence and his professional attitude to it. Also How about this trade?
Maggs for Tony Battie and Najera. I mean it might look like a bad one, but I think that Nets are in need for a small forward and why not a guy like Maggs who can start or come off the bench and play.
We get battie an expiring contract and najera who i think would be on the bench but who cares. Plus I that battie can be a back up center and his production is good
by goaldenstateboy on Aug 26, 2009 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Battier
The warriors need more defense and Battier is a defense specialist. I doubt Bosh is going anywhere. Toronto brought in a lot of players to help Bosh and create a contender. Amare would be a great addition. All those other guys though are either seriously injured (McGrady, Davis) or franchise players who aren’t going anywhere. Battier or Amare, no doubt add much needed defense to the warriors roster.
Er.
Toronto brought in a lot of players to create a contender?
Baron is seriously injured?
Utah considers Boozer a franchise player?
Amare adds much needed defense?
Quite a lot of claims for such a short post. Enquiring minds want to know.
"I’M TAKING YOU TO THE HOLE, WONDERLIC!" [turns ball over] -- markdash
Get off my lawn, hipsters! -- Missing Barry
by Sleepy Freud on Aug 26, 2009 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Something to keep in mind with any trade with UTAH...
Utah is looking to cut payroll THIS year. Once they get through this year they are fine financially, but right now they are $12 MILLION over the luxury tax threshold. So any trade where they take back less salary saves them double, factoring in the dollar for dollar penalty. The Warriors being $8 Million under the LT line helps here.
I know the poll has Maggette+Claxton+Law for Kirilenko but Law is not needed to make the salaries work within 125%+$100K. Btw, I’m not trying to hold on to Law or anything, I don’t think much of him as a player I’m just trying to make a point.
Maggette+Claxton for Kirilenko:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mgnxgu
$16,452,000 – OUT
-$14,147,385 – IN
= $2,304,615
$2,304,615 × 2 = $4,609,230 Savings
That would be an attractive trade to Utah.
I would think so too, but if they really want to shed salary immediately, an alt. package of
Claxton + Law + Wright + Azubuike + George
Gets them to almost the same salary figure. Well, half a million more, but for that half mil they get
1. Zero dollars in commitments after this season — which, assuming they held onto the expirings of Boozer, Korver, Koufos, Brewer and Harpring, would give them over $40 million in expirings to rebuild their team from scratch around Deron, MIllsap and Okur at the end of the season.
2. Two cheap and productive young players with great attitudes.
That has to be an infinitely more attractive deal to them. Indeed, as much as I like KIrilenko, I think that’s probably too good of a deal for them.
"I’M TAKING YOU TO THE HOLE, WONDERLIC!" [turns ball over] -- markdash
Get off my lawn, hipsters! -- Missing Barry
by Sleepy Freud on Aug 27, 2009 4:37 AM PDT up reply actions
....
But I’ll still pull the trigger, obviously. I love Buike and Wright, but we might as well get the pain of “rotation-triage” out of the way ASAP. Watching at least two of Curry, Buike, Morrow, and Wright sitting for long stretches would make me sad…
"I’M TAKING YOU TO THE HOLE, WONDERLIC!" [turns ball over] -- markdash
Get off my lawn, hipsters! -- Missing Barry
by Sleepy Freud on Aug 27, 2009 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions
What brand?
I know Elton brand didn’t do anything last yr but he is a good player if healthy. How about law, claxton, George, wright, watson for brand. What you guys think?
Waaaarroirs
I like it.
Brand’s consistent career numbers tells me he will find his form again.
by HOLDEMUPwuzzBANNED on Aug 27, 2009 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Amare sucks more then I thought
He never has averaged 10 rpg. Has only averaged 2 bpg once. If we throw away our future for this guy we are dumb. Please don’t buy into the Amare hype. HE IS JUST FLASH
by big victor alexander on Aug 27, 2009 8:05 PM PDT reply actions

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