Reviewing And Exploring The Jason Richardson Trade
by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 6, 2009 3:58 PM PDT
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This talk of acquiring Boris Diaw has me thinking about the Jason Richardson for Brandon Wright trade. So i shall continue.
I believe the deal was actually made before Charlotte drafted Brandon Wright, but i cannot say that with 100 percent certainty. So lets look at the trade, what has happened and explore it from both vantage points.
First off Jason Richardson really didn't do much to help the Bobcats, he wasn't that pivotal to that team and didn't add many stats in the all important W column. But i am going to view this directly to how it benefited the Bobcats following the Richardson trade to Phoenix. Now who did they acquire in return for Richardson? Raja Bell and Boris Diaw right?
2008-2009 season
Diaw: 13.2ppg-5.3rpg-51% FG- 42% 3pt
Bell: 11.9ppg-3.6rpg-2.9apg-1.2spg-.432 3pt %
Not a bad haul for Jason Richardson
Richardson's 2008-2009 stats: 16.8ppg-4.4rpg-2.0apg-.473 fg%
And finally Brandon Wright's 2008-2009 stats: 8.3ppg-4.0rpg- 53 % ft pct
So looking at the stats out of the 3 teams involved in two seperate Jason Richardson trades i would say Charlotte got the best out of the deal and the Warriors the worse. 24ppg-9rpg combined between Diaw and Bell. But let me delve further into the deal, shall i?
Bell's PER last season was a poultry 10.9, Diaw's wasn't much better at 14.5 . They did combine for 24ppg but in a total of 70MPG, that is right a combined 70MPG. Playing on a pretty bad Charlotte Bobcat team.
Jason Richardson had one of his lowest scoring season as a pro averaging under 17ppg and only 2 apg. but his shooting was good at 48% fg, 40%ft and 77% 3 pt, he also only played an average of 31MPG with the Suns. But are those numbers you want from a player earning 13 million per season? His PER was a respectful 16.7
Now finally lets look further into Brandon Wright's statistics. His PER was the best of the group at 18.8. He averaged 8.3ppg-4.0rpg in less the 18MPG shooting .534 from the field and a pretty good .735 from the line. Give him the minutes that Diaw got and your looking atleast statistically at 17.1ppg-8.4rpg, not bad for a young player
Also look at the contracts. Charlotte is committed to 23 million over the next two seasons for those two players. Phoenix is committed to 26.6 million for the next two seasons with Jason Richardson. And the Warriors only 2.8 million for next season with Brandon Wright.
So i am going to ask you all take this into account and answer the enclosed poll. Who got the better deal of the 3 teams involved in two separate Jason Richardson trades? I spend some time on this one, so please be thoughtful in your responses
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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Wait for it....
someone is going to bring up, “But the Warriors won more games in 07-08 than they did in 06-07!”.
by Precise Films Productions on Aug 6, 2009 4:07 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
The Warriors won more games in the 2007-08 season than they did in the 2006-07 season!
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 6, 2009 4:09 PM PDT reply actions
That is true. And Phoenix also went from 61 wins to 55 and then to 46 last season. Charlotte went from 33 wins to 32 wins.
by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 6, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Wait for it….
someone is going to bring up, "But the Warriors won more games in 07-08 than they did in 06-07!".
by Precise Films Productions on Aug 6, 2009 4:07 PM PDT reply actions
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 6, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions
J Rich shot 77% 3pt last year?
But I could’ve sworn Morrow won the 3pt title…
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
LOL meant 77 percent from the line! I was switching between ESPN and this site to post the numbers so i must have made an error.
by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 6, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
So if we look at the Crawford-Law/Claxton trade by per36 numbers
Then we’d get the same amount of points and an extra 7 assists per game? Does that mean that was a good trade and would benefit us more than it benefits the Hawks?
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
What are you talking about regarding PER? Are you speaking about Speedy Claxton(5.7)? Acie Law(10.3)? or Jamal Crawford(15.2)? Either way we made that trade to take on expiring contracts, free up the wing position and give us more flexibility. NOT TO GET EQUAL VALUE!
by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 6, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Addition by subtraction. Not having him on the roster prevents Nellie from playing Crawford. It was as close to buying him out and releasing him as we were going to get, and many a poster had called for exactly that.
by jae on Aug 6, 2009 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions
so are we required to have a Jason Richardson trade thread every 3 days now?
Thing A
by sam23 on Aug 6, 2009 5:37 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
easy now, for one – the other post doesn’t even have JRich in the title & norcal81 hasn’t posted there so you don’t know he’s even seen it, plus he’s taking a pretty different tact on the trades that the other post
OT – where was nauticus last fall when you could have used him? ;=]
Thanks!
If i have read that thread then i would have just commented on it. I can’t read every single posting on here. SMH i do have a job, i am not on here 24/7.
by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 6, 2009 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Seriously
You guys are going to put me out of business.
Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!"
by Atma Brother ONE on Aug 6, 2009 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I checked the by-laws. It’s not a requirement. Apparently, the “Richardson Rehash” is an all-volunteer army.
by jae on Aug 6, 2009 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Just imagine what will happen Belinelli gets tons of minutes next year and puts up 20+ ppg.
Duck and cover..
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Aug 7, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Seriously, why post about a trade that happened over 2 years ago?
If I don't like it, I don't like it, that don't mean that I'm hatin.
Because
It is still applicable to today’s situation. #1 we didn’t use that money we saved to acquire another player and #2 the salary cap implications still exist, and will for the next two seasons. So of course it is still applicable.
by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 6, 2009 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Yep
You beat me. Thats what I was going to say.
If I don't like it, I don't like it, that don't mean that I'm hatin.
and because
some of us looked to that situation to judge whether the FO will take advantage of the current bucket full of expiring contracts to improve the roster …
Thank you for that is another reason i posted it. Don’t comment on the thread if you don’t like it!! I have steered clear of many threads since i joined this site, it’s not that hard to do!!!
by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 7, 2009 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Don’t comment on the thread if you don’t like it!!
I don’t really think that’s what this place is all about
Thing A
I think he’s saying if you’re just going to say the Fanpost itself is “redundant, lame, pointless, etc . . .” then don’t post in it. That’s the Mods’ job.
Obviously, if you disagree with the ideas and want to provide a counter argument (or in my case a stupid joke or a picture of AR dunking preggers) then you should comment. Otherwise, there’d be no point to this place at all (which is I think the point you were making).
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Aug 7, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions
1. Hardcore just wrote a recommended diary on this topic.
2. I’m pretty sure this topic has been discussed before on this site.
3. Diaw and Bell have precisely nothing to do with the Wright/JRich trade.
4. Rather than “guesstimating” stuff based on per game stats you find on espn, try using Basketball Reference, which gives reb, pts, ast, etc. per 36 minutes, as well as the same numbers expressed as percentages. (Did you just not bother to listen the last time, when you invented a bunch of numbers for Anthony Randolph out of whole cloth?)
5. TS% tells you much more than FG%, as it factors in 3 pt shooting and the ability to get to the FT line.
6. Brandan Wright.
Overall…
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Aug 6, 2009 6:09 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
The Bell/Diaw for Richardson trade is just a representation of proven talent that we could have received for Richardson. And of course they were not the same trade, but by putting this spin on it i am attempting to figure out where people stand on it.
by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 6, 2009 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I feel like I pretty much know where just about every single GSoMer stands on the JRich trade issue. Except maybe Skep, he never really voices his opinion on the matter.
Thing A
by sam23 on Aug 6, 2009 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Except maybe Skep, he never really voices his opinion on the matter.
Huh? WTF we traded Jason?
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Aug 6, 2009 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions
No. J-Rich is still on the team.
About 37,000 fans still rock a Richardson Warrior jersey today…. So he is still a Warrior.
Sike. Moving on.
Romes Mac Mojous
by ROMESdavidWOOD37 on Aug 7, 2009 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Huh? WTF we traded Jason?
No he was taken from us :(
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Aug 7, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Well i am relatively new to this site so i really don’t know where you all stand on the issue. Plus i was attempting to spin it a different way too.
by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 6, 2009 7:01 PM PDT reply actions
Its good to know we could have had Diaw and Bell, before we get D.George 2.0 and cash considerations back for B.Wright (essentially JRich, since we never used that TPE )
its good to know we could have had Diaw and Bell and then would’ve had to watch either Monta or Biedrins walk the next year? Or do you really think
Baron/Hudson
Monta/Bell
Jackson/Diaw
Harringon/Barnes
Biedrins/Croshere
would’ve been good enough to convince management to go into the lux tax to keep them?
Thing A
not necessarily true
One could argue that the same exact money we saved from dumping JRich went to the worthless free agent signing of Corey Maggette (or Stephen Jackson extension, take your pick)
"We Deserve"
Corey Maggette is a more productive player than J-Rich. I’d rather have Maggette from a production standpoint.
From an entertainment and likability standpoint I’d rather have J-Rich
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Aug 7, 2009 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess...
but I don’t think it would be a very good argument. Trading Jrich didn’t actually create the cap space that we used to sign Corey, Baron opting out did. Yeah, it’s basically semantics, but it’s way more of a stretch to say the deal was made with the expectation of Baron leaving than it is to say that they expected Baron to stay and used the salary relief to re-sign the kids without going into the luxury tax. You might as well say that those exact dollars went to paying the guys that wash the windows at the oracle, and all of those lovely season ticket reps. It could be true, but it doesn’t speak to the strategy behind the trade and the cap/tax implications.
Also, we didn’t need any cap space or luxury tax room to extend Jackson.
Thing 2
Jackson’s salary has not changed. He was merely extended, but until the extension kicks in in 2010-11, that’s not part of the equation. That extension has no effect on the tax situation at this point.
by jae on Aug 7, 2009 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, but ...
The team is probably better with Corey Maggette than it was with Jason. Ignore salary considerations for a second, and ask yourself:
Would any team in the league trade Corey for Jason straight up? Would any team in the league not trade Jason for Corey straight up?
Corey is a better player. He’s a flawed player. He’s an overpaid player. He’s never going to be a fan favorite.
But he’s a better player. Corey scores more, and is more efficient at it. He rebounds better. Their career assist numbers are VERY close (for all the talk of Corey’s unwillingness to pass, his career assist average is .4 less per 36m). The difference is not huge, but I think Corey is clearly better.
The other issue i have with comparing the two players, and talking about them being part of the same plan, is that I suspect the moves were made by different regimes.
In my mind, the Corey signing was the first move of the post-Mullin era (although, of course, Mullin was GM in name only for another year). This is particularly the case because Corey’s contract ignores the flat-rate wisdom which Mullin figured out after paying too much for Murphy and Dunleavy.
In any event, any Mullin-era financial wisdom (evidenced by the Monta and Biedrins contracts, as well as the JRich trade) was completely wiped out by the moronic Jackson extension and Magette signing.
Charlotte became a half-decent team after getting Bell and Diaw.
I’d give the win to them.
by HOLDEMUPwuzzBANNED on Aug 6, 2009 9:40 PM PDT reply actions
2 key factors to JRich trade no one is bringing up
1) it was a salary dump because Cohan was afraid of luxury tax and we may or may not have been able to re sign both monta and biedrins.
2) We got a 10 mil trade exemption we should have used but DIDNT. We theoretically approaching the trade deadline in 07/08 when we were in the playoff hunt could have traded al harrington (or someone else) for basically a max player. Teams looknig to dump salary would have LOVED this. A name that comes to mind is Pau Gasol…
Perhaps Al + Bwright for Gasol + extra contract they want to dump? We could have had…
Baron, Monta, Jack, Pau, Biedrins…. i like the potential of making 07/08 playoffs and getting out of first round.
Al and Brandon would not have netted us Gasol. The numbers wouldn’t have worked and we weren’t providing Memphis with what they really wanted: a big soon-to-be expiring contract. Kwame Brown, despite his suckitude, was going to come off the books. Really, we didn’t have anything that made an attractive package for Pau.
The TPE would have been no use, none at all, in getting Gasol. I could not be combined with another player to get any single player making more than the value of the exception, thus Gasol is just plain not possible. While there might have been someone we could have acquired, there weren’t a tremendous number of options in the position(s) of need: a post threat, or secondarily (and cheaper) some quality backup point minutes.
as far as i understood the exemption it was
10 million dollar exemption on trades. IE i we could trade a player with a $5 million salary for a player with a $15mil salary.
Now that I think about it, gasol was on somewhere between 12-14 mil then, so it really would have had to been packaged with maybe just wright?? Or adonal if gasol’s was higher? Adonal plus trade exemption could have worked
as far as i understood the exemption it was 10 million dollar exemption on trades. IE i we could trade a player with a $5 million salary for a player with a $15mil salary.
That is absolutely incorrect. TPE remaining after the Richardson trade cannot be combined to bring in a player making more than that. I am absolutely certain of this. It is quite clear in the CBA. We could not have used the TPE to get a player making more than $10mil
by jae on Aug 7, 2009 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
“We could not have used the TPE to get a player making more than $10mil”
This is the important thing everyone upset about the fact that we didn’t use the TPE needs to consider. How many good, available players teams will trade for nothing making under $10M per year are out there? If a team will trade that player for nothing, despite the fact that they aren’t making that much, what does it say about the player? Basically, finding someone that we want that also fits all these qualifications is not easy. Most likely it would have to be some 3 team trade or some crazy huge multi-player trade that lets us essentially split it up into 2 trades, one involving the TPE and one involving players who’s contracts match up. It’s understandable that we didn’t find any move to make with the TPE.
by Missing Barry on Aug 10, 2009 8:00 AM PDT up reply actions
also consider...
Any trades for significant talent upgrade to get us into the playoffs, even as the 8 seed would have put us picking 20 (where denver pickeD). We would not have got anthony Randolph
Jason > Magette
Ummm… I know what stats say, but have you ever watched Jason and Magette play. Jason is a far better shooter and better passer. Just because he has similar assist numbers does not mean they are similar passers. Jason plays in a system and Magette might as well be on the court himself. He is an atrocious passer who charges straight into opposing players and hopes they call fouls. Magette is also an inferior defender. I am no Jason Richardson apologist. I would trade Richardson for Wright today even knowing Wright’s injury history because he was not worth $13 million/yr. The sad thing is, I don’t know if Magette is worth $5 million let alone $10 mill.
He doesn’t charge into opponents hoping to get fouled. These are professional basketball players. If that was what he was doing, he would fail. But instead, he anticipates his opponent’s defensive maneuvers and tricks them into fouling him. It’s really nasty. But yeah, it’s too bad he doesn’t pass well.
I hate those normal-sized midgets. What are they called again? Oh, yeah. People.
That's your homerism talking
Jason is not a great shooter. He’s a pretty good scorer. Mags is a better scorer.
It’s not ambiguous. They are similar from the field, and Mags gets to the line much more. Whether you care about volume scoring or efficiency, Mags is just better.
I agree with you about Mags being a one-on-one player, but I think you’ve got rose-colored glasses on with respect to Jason, because you like him. Yes, he buys into the team concept, but he’s not creative with the ball. He’s not somebody who beats players one-on-one (a skill Mags have) – instead, Richardson is a flow-of-the-game player, who requires being set up by his teammates.
Jason Richardson is not a good passer in the sense of being able to create opportunities for his teammates. He was better than Corey primarily in that he played much more in the flow of the offense. That’s not trivial … but it’s also a relatively small factor when trying to judge a player’s effectiveness.
Jason Richardson was not, as a Warrior, a very good defender. In fact, he was rather bad. I have no idea if he’s capable of being a good defender or not, but he certainly wasn’t when he was here. Magette is also a bad defender. I’m not sure how you figure he’s worse than Jason, particularly since he’s a better rebounder, and rebounds are a part of defense.
I like Jason Richardson. I found him far more fun to watch than I find Magette. But we shouldn’t let our subjective sense of how appealing a player is distract us from the actual qualities they bring to the floor.
by Ronaldinho on Aug 8, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
“Jason is not a great shooter.”
He is a pretty good shooter. Barely under 40% from 3 last season. 36.7% the previous season, and 38.4% the season before that. You’re right that it isn’t great, but it is good and substantially better than Maggette, who’s shot below 30% from 3 two of the last three years (oddly enough, shot 38.4% the other year).
Scoring efficiency is a whole different matter, though…
by Missing Barry on Aug 10, 2009 8:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Both are paid like they are stars, JRich even more so with that large contract. Neither ever fulfilled the hype coming out of college. Both of them have only been on one playoff team in their careers and both are one dimensional players. Who would i rather have? I consider it a tossup but if all things were equal(contract) i would go with Richardson. But the best option would be NEITHER
by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 8, 2009 12:32 PM PDT reply actions
They’re both overpaid, yes, but they’re not paid like stars. JRich is more overpaid than Maggette (by a signifcant margin), but he’s still not one of the 30 highest paid players in the NBA.
by Missing Barry on Aug 10, 2009 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions
J-rich best day are behind.
The second knees operation turned him into a average player. He is my favorite player, but he will never be the same player when he was all star snubbed. As for Wright, he is a damn bust. He always seem lost most of the time. If he play 30 minutes plus, he might be 12 and 9 at most. He cant bang in the paint and get out -rebounds most of the time. The dood will be never a be 20-10 pf. And the worst thing is, we didnt use the 10 millions from the trade. This trade will always have no winner.
20-10 or bust ...
That seems … reasonable.
Actual, his per 36s suggest that he’d be a 16-and-9 PF if he started and was able to stay on the floor. That’s not a “bust.”
Not by a longshot. Of course, he has to prove he can do that … but it’s far from obvious that he can’t.
As for Wright, he is a damn bust…
Zzz.
This would be a great time to invoke the proposed GSoM rule (I forget by which clever poster) along the lines of “anybody who repeats the same tired argument 800 times in a row must then make the exact opposite argument the next 800 times.”
(Naticus, you will now start making the case that the Obama administration is not indistinguishable from the Third Reich…)
There will be no extra point!
I just think Obama = poop. I don’t think he’s Hitler… yet. We’ll see what he does with his “civilian security force as strong and as well funded as the military.” I’m still trying to figure out what his security goals are. Judging by Rahm Emmanuel’s book, they are not going to be good, in my book. I may just take up suicide bombing as a hobby, if his goals are like Rahm’s.
I hate those normal-sized midgets. What are they called again? Oh, yeah. People.
Not just a bust, but a damn bust? Strong words. If Wright had come out of North Carolina after a dominating junior season, and was picked by the Warriors, you would be excited about him right now. Only he left school after a year, plays against much better competition, most likely making him better as a player, and has been productive in the minutes he’s received so far. But yes, “bust” is definitely appropriate in this situation.
Just keep in mind Brandan Wright could still be in college. You’re really writing him off already?
by Missing Barry on Aug 10, 2009 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions
I would love to see Wright destroying college competition. I still remember him swatting rookie Kevin Durant into the stands. Ha ha. That’s what he would be doing in college to every star out there. He’d still be around 8th in the draft or higher, if he were a junior, I suspect. This year, in a weak draft. I’d put him above Thabeet, easily.
I hate those normal-sized midgets. What are they called again? Oh, yeah. People.
some ppl said he could be 20-10 in here.
But, I’m saying he is going to 12 and 8-9 at most. This is all good, if you dale davis, however, everyone hype him up to be great and he is showing nothing right now. All, I’m saying we drafted the wrong dood.
by warriorfan4life on Aug 10, 2009 3:26 PM PDT reply actions
Summarizing a player in such terms (20-10 vs 12 and 8-9), once again, isn’t an overly meaningful way of summarizing a player’s impact. It’s a fantastic way of assessing what a player is likely to command in future contract negotiations though as it doesn’t seem like the market pays much attention to things beyond “per game” averages, with points per trumping just about anything and everything.
If he maintains the high efficiency scoring and gets those 8-9 rebounds in 30 minutes a night, he’s helping more than a “20-10” player who needs 40 minutes and 18 shots to get those numbers.
He’s 21 years old, and he’s played a total of 77 games in his career. The dude’s long and athletic, has put up decent stats so far, and you’re really calling him a bust already? How does that make any sense?
by Missing Barry on Aug 10, 2009 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions
geez you think.
i fiqure that out on draft night 2 yrs ago. lol
by warriorfan4life on Aug 18, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
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