Jackson situation isn't one, say Warriors [SFGate]
More nothing-ness as the offseason meaningless-ness continues for the Golden State Warriors aka The Suck-ness.
I will say though that it's getting incredibly annoying seeing all these local writers incessantly dismiss Larry Riley as Nellie's puppet. I don't recall the local media going on and on ad nauseam how Chris Mullin's management hire was a publicity stunt by Chris Cohan and Robert Rowell or how absolutely clueless Mullin and Rod Higgins were in the Warriors front office pre-Nellie (and even post-Nellie). Give me the guy who is Nellie's buddy and worked a long road as an assistant coach, scout, and front office exec in this league over a guy "groomed" by Gary St. Jean any day.
over 2 years ago
Atma Brother ONE
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"how absolutely clueless Mullin and Rod Higgins were in the Warriors front office pre-Nellie"
Adonal Foyle
Michael Dunleavy
Derek Fisher
Just to name a few players who were given big money/long term contracts by Chris Mullin.
I love Mully but c’mon.
At least he realized his mistakes, owned up to them, and moved on past those players.
by Missing Barry on Sep 23, 2009 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Yup
He realized his mistakes, owned up to them, and moved on to give away a future first round pick for Marcus Williams- a player who probably won’t get any playing time again this season after his “stunning” D-League display.
Not exactly “movin’ on up”!
Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!"
by Atma Brother ONE on Sep 23, 2009 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions
And also got rid of JRich’s bloated contract and drafted Wright, traded nothing for Baron, rid us of Dunleavy/Murphy to give us “We Believe”, drafted Monta, drafted Randolph, DIDN’T extend Jack or give Baron that awful, awful contract the Clippers gave him…
I don’t particularly care whether you agree with me or not how well Mullin did as GM (especially since we aren’t completely aware how the power structure in the Warriors organization works and who made the call on all the moves), but you have to at least admit he improved substantially as a GM. I also like someone that realizes his mistake and doesn’t stick with it just to try to prove they’re right when they aren’t (see Sabean, Brian). Concepts like “sunk cost” are generally lost on sports organizations so it’s refreshing to see someone that gets it and I applaud him for it.
by Missing Barry on Sep 23, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
you have to at least admit he improved substantially as a GM
Actually I don’t believe he improved. That’s one of the biggest myths about his tenure. (I’ve been working on an article about that for some time, but haven’t had a chance to finish it up…)
He made some good moves pre-Nellie and still made some bad moves post-Nellie. Overall he’s a sub-mediocre GM. If you compare him to Gary St. Jean or his other predecesors that might seem fine, but for a large market team his work just wasn’t acceptable. And trading J-Rich right after that playoff run for an underweight and raw PF was not a good move at all.
Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!"
by Atma Brother ONE on Sep 23, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Mully brought Nellie back,
Shouldn’t that right there be enough to make you one of Mullins biggest fans?
Well we don’t have to get into the JRich move, because I’ve figured out you disagree, but as for the other stuff, I’d be interested when you get your article out. It really seems to me he’s improved substantially (even when I look through all his moves), and I do believe he was a decent GM when we let him go, though I’m always open to new research.
by Missing Barry on Sep 23, 2009 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Well we don’t have to get into the JRich move, because I’ve figured out you disagree…
Haha. Would that I’d been as wise and cool-headed as you, at the time of the trade…
Actually, though I disagree with AB about 80% of the time on Warriors-related stuff, I think I’m basically with him on Mully. You can parse the guy’s resume move-by-move, or you can just listen to him talk. Not to be a snob about it — nice guy and all — but he just never struck me as particularly sharp or shrewd. These are qualities that are pretty essential in a GM. He may have learned a bit from his early mistakes; he may also, like the proverbial blind squirrel, have turned up a nut or two. Either way, I don’t think I would ever have had much confidence in him as GM. I’m not totally sold on Riley, ether, but right off the bat he struck me in interviews as sharper, more eloquent, and more “big picture” than Mullin. And so far, he’s done nothing to dispel my initial reaction. (Though I would love to hear that he’s at least attempting to do something interesting with that nice pile of expiring contracts he’s amassed…)
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Sep 23, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
You can parse the guy’s resume move-by-move, or you can just listen to him talk. Not to be a snob about it — nice guy and all — but he just never struck me as particularly sharp or shrewd. These are qualities that are pretty essential in a GM. He may have learned a bit from his early mistakes; he may also, like the proverbial blind squirrel, have turned up a nut or two. Either way, I don’t think I would ever have had much confidence in him as GM. I’m not totally sold on Riley, ether, but right off the bat he struck me in interviews as sharper, more eloquent, and more "big picture" than Mullin. And so far, he’s done nothing to dispel my initial reaction. (Though I would love to hear that he’s at least attempting to do something interesting with that nice pile of expiring contracts he’s amassed…)
And this would the 20% we agree on. I couldn’t have said it any better. Nice words.
I do want to give Riley’s communication skills this past summer an A grade too. He still hasn’t shaken up this roster like I would have liked, but give him his props for coming prepared to all interviews and being honest. You can tell this guy knows what he’s talking about, works hard, and wants to put out a better basketball product. I couldn’t say those first two items for Mullin and St. Jean. Both seemed like nice guys who wanted to win, but I didn’t get the feeling either had a real master plan or was putting in the hours to research what the moves they were making- there’s no simply no rationale for a lot of the moves those 2 guys made as the Warriors front office head.
I feel like Riley’s got a lot of Texas/ Southern style sincerity too. He’s the anti-Rowell in a lot of ways. Now he obviously doesn’t have the greatest resume of the GMs out there, but I’m willing to give to him a chance and think he’ll do just fine.
Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!"
by Atma Brother ONE on Sep 23, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Trading J-Rich wasn’t a bad move, IMO. It saved a lot of money which is good. At the same time, losing J-Rich wasn’t a big blow to our team, because we had Monta. Any good GM knows to not pay huge money for redundancy. At the same time, he brought in a promising young potential star in B. Wright to fill a void. It was actually a very logical decision financially and a very reasonable gamble. Good GMs take risks. It was but it was a very logical one to take. It could still pan out very well for us in a couple different ways.
If God dwells in all of us, like some people say he does, I sure hope he likes nachos, because that's what he's getting!
Trading J-Rich wasn’t a bad move,
Yeah, running off your fan favorite right after you make the playoffs for the first time in the century is brilliant. I use this as the Warriors fan intelligence test, Atma has passed.
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Sep 23, 2009 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I use this as the Warriors fan intelligence test
:,-(
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Sep 24, 2009 6:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Make
sure to read Lowell Cohn’s interview with Larry Riley
Re: "groomed" by Gary St. Jean
Not the guy I first guy I’d go to for help with anything involving “grooming”.
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Sep 22, 2009 10:03 PM PDT reply actions
This reporter is obviously mad that Riley didn’t give him any dirt. Anything Riley says that is TRUE is likely to not help the team. Jackson DOES want to leave, if the Dubs don’t get better. He can’t SAY that, though. At the same time, Riley is planning to make a move, I suspect, or he thinks the Dubs will be good this year without making a move (they would be .500, I predict). I don’t think Riley has a big issue with Jackson, because I think he feels he can make Jackson want to stay. If he can’t, he can trade him.
I think Riley talked to Jack, reassuring him that the Dubs would make a move. Jack didn’t respond, “I still want to get traded,” so Riley felt better. Whatever. This is a non-story with a reporter just trying to make a lot of noise, like all reporters do.
If God dwells in all of us, like some people say he does, I sure hope he likes nachos, because that's what he's getting!
Re: This reporter
Ratto is not “a reporter”. He’s a “creative writer and humorist”. His work is entertaining and he’s invented his own way to use the English language that I enjoy but 90% of people on blogs do not. If you are looking for accuracy or intellectual fairness, he is not the right tree to be barking up. If you are looking for a new take on the modern limerick, he’s damn good.
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Sep 23, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions
way off topic
Sorry to be way off topic, but i love this site. the writing is remarkably good and funny. I am a long time NBA fan, but really have no association with the Warriors. Just happened to stumble across the site a couple of weeks ago and now am a frequent visitor. Keep up the good work.
Uh Oh
Be careful! Don’t let us suck you into Warriors fandom. It’s a little too “Unstoppable Baby!” for most people.
Seriously though, thanks for the kind words.
Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!"
by Atma Brother ONE on Sep 23, 2009 7:36 AM PDT up reply actions
I am a long time NBA fan, but really have no association with the Warriors.
That’ll change soon enough. The Warriors are like heroine, you know it’s bad for you, but once you try it once you can’t get off them. They suck you in and leave you miserable and a shell of a fan but you can’t kick the addiction….you might as well just accept it and dive in headfirst!
by Missing Barry on Sep 23, 2009 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's right!!
You tell him how horribly wonderful it is to day in and day out be a Dubs fan, riding the roller coaster every year!!
by RTM707 on Sep 23, 2009 8:52 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I dunno, back in my youth, I seem to remember a couple of heroines who sucked me in and left me a miserable shell of myself…
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Sep 23, 2009 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Over the line!
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Sep 23, 2009 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Just happened to stumble across the site a couple of weeks ago and now am a frequent visitor.
Keep us posted on how it is in the real world? Please??
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Sep 23, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
So far, Riley has been disciplined and professional
And, fans are upset by this? I think we finally have a grown-up in the FO. Now, he may value loyalty too much not trading CJ, trading for George, etc. He may lack the big move shake-up balls. But, he’s getting tremendous leadership from Morrow and Randolph. You think Monta and Jack could learn a little from that? Why were they working out together out East, but not in Oakland like last year’s rooks? I think Riley is going to help change the culture of this team from chaotic to professional.
"We're Menudo," -BB
Possible Jackson Motivation
While not equating Stephen Jackson to Kobe Bryant as a player, i have to say that this reminds me a little of the time that Kobe was saying he wanted to be traded because he didn’t feel the Lakers were going in a Championship direction and he was wasting prime years.
Jackson essentialy said the same thing — and after a summer of unexpected quiet, maybe this was his way of lighting a fire under the W’s arses.
The Lakers responded about 1/3 of the way through the season by picking up Pau Gasol.
I could see the W’s picking up Boozer similarly – probably for BWright, 1st round pick and expirings…
One major difference . . .
Kobe had market-value and more leverage. Jackson can cause problems but that will only hurt his chances of leaving. He’s viewed as a potential problem waiting to happen and he’s proven it once again. I also don’t think being in the top 3 in technical fouls every year helps dispel that image. His market value, with that contract, is much lower than Kobe’s has ever been and he has no leverage.
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Sep 23, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
W’s picking up Boozer similarly – probably for BWright, 1st round pick and expirings…
I’d rather have BWright than Boozer at this point. Boozer hasn’t done much of anything to prove himself a winner, a leader, or even a great guy to have on your team (Jazz fans certainly don’t want him any more.) He’s not Zach Randolph, but mostly because he hasn’t gotten in trouble off the court.
"We've said that we want Monta to take on a greater leadership role," he said. "I don't think that necessarily leads to us wanting Jack to take on a lesser role
Doesn’t that violate the laws of physics?
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Sep 23, 2009 2:03 PM PDT reply actions
Doesn’t that violate the laws of physics?
Hey! We agree! Let’s do this again next year!
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Sep 23, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Well
Biedrins and Turiaf could reduce their role.
Biedrins and Turiaf could reduce their role.
If they had roles Jax was not really leading, there can only be one true leader or the team will go off in multiple directions.
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Sep 23, 2009 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Effective organizations often have multiple leaders...
Effective organizations often have multiple leaders, but those leaders are all committed to the same direction. That common commitment keeps everybody working toward the same thing, while having multiple leaders helps keep the organization together by spreading the burden.
It is unusual that everyone on a team (even a small team, like a basketball team) will relate well to a single person and respond well to that one person’s leadership style. It is much more likely that the team can commit strongly to common goals when encouraged to do so by multiple leaders whose styles complement each other. This is why the best leaders do not feel threatened by other effective leaders (and why I have a huge problem with “Alpha Male Worship.”)
That’s my opinion based on my own experience anyway.
It is much more likely that the team can commit strongly to common goals when encouraged to do so by multiple leaders whose styles complement each other.
This is basketball remember, they have about 3 seconds to decide and follow up, the committee better act fast :>)
Standing on the moon
Where talk is cheap and vision true
Standing on the moon
But I would rather be with you
Somewhere in San Francisco
On a back porch in July
Just looking up to heaven
At this crescent in the sky
by Skeptic con Urquell on Sep 24, 2009 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
=)
There is thing called “practice.” It’s where you put in work on your basketball skills when the game isn’t on the line so that they will be there when it is. Teams participate in practice together (unless led by AI) leaving ample opportunities for leadership. Some times they even start this process before the season starts in what is called “Training Camp” or even earlier in informal workouts.
There are also multiple opportunities for leadership during games, as exemplified by a guy like Turiaf (and, at times, Jackson last year) taking a guy under his wing and explaining to him what is going on and how to play the game over the course of a season (not to mention how to deal with a coach they may be having a hard time understanding,) or cheering actively from the bench, or coming in and playing with a lot of visible heart.
That said, the Warriors better have those “common goals” set in stone before the season starts, or it will be too late. The game is too fast to make up your guiding principles as you go.
Not physics...
But something. Leadersics?
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Sep 23, 2009 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Larry Riley IS Nellie's puppet
I’m sure Don asks for his input, but please – who do you think got LR the job? The fact that Riley even bothers to address this “criticism” (some might just call them “facts”) shows that it’s true.
Not that I or anyone else cares who is calling the shots if the Warriors actually start winning.
So a lack of response proves guilt, huh? I guess Obama really wasn’t born in the U.S.! ha ha
If God dwells in all of us, like some people say he does, I sure hope he likes nachos, because that's what he's getting!
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