What has to happen for the Warriors to be playoff bound again.
by disgruntled_season_ticket_holder on Jan 16, 2010 8:36 AM PST
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PrintI've put a lot of thought into this and here is what I feel needs to happen if we wish to see the Warriors become a perennial playoff team for the first time in roughly 20 years.
1.) Finish this season with 24 or slightly more than 24 wins. There are two reasons for this: (a) It gives Don Nelson the record for most coaching victories and (b) it almost guarantees the Warriors a bottom three record. For reason (a), Don Nelson has to retire. He was a great coach and will be a hall of famer but the man is old and is too much of a mad scientist with all of the different rosters he experiments with. The team is lacking identity and it needs a younger coach with fresh ideas and more energy. Hopefully by getting the record before the end of the season, he won't feel compelled to come back and will step down. For reason (b), obviously the Warriors needs a top draft pick to turn around their fortunes. In order for that to happen they need a high enough probability to win the top pick and surely being one of the three worst teams in the NBA, like they are right now, would certainly help. That leads me to #2.
2.) Use the top draft pick to get John Wall. The Warriors are notorious for botching high draft picks (Washburn, Webber, Smith, Jamison, Dunleavy, etc.). I know the Warriors have a solid frontcourt but neither Ellis nor Curry is a true point guard. Wall can become the leader that Rose and Paul have been for Chicago and New Orleans. He has the same build, posts similar college numbers, and plays for a similar big time program. So what happens to Ellis or Curry? Onto #3.
3.) Trade Ellis and his lucrative contract to another team that has a big man who will become a free agent this summer. Clearly two such big men come to mind: Bosh and Stoudemire. Toronto would be insane to let Bosh just walk away without getting anything in return. Same goes for Phoenix. If somehow the Warriors front office can arrange a sign and trade deal with either Toronto or Phoenix, they can get the dominant big man they have always coveted without having to spend that much more than they are spending right now on their roster. My preference is Bosh since he is younger and less injury prone but I wouldn't mind having Stoudemire either.
4.) Finally, I would dump all of the other overpriced players. Maggette is definitely one who has to go. No way Claxton comes back. Maybe you keep either Bell or Radmanovic or perhaps both and I like Biedrins. The rest of the squad should stay since they would act as good role players and have fairly affordable contracts.
Here is how the new Warriors starting roster would look: PG Wall, SG, Curry, SF Bell, PF Bosh, C Biedrins. Off the bench you would have Randolph, Wright, Watson, Morrow, Azubuike, and perhaps a couple more players that would be added after getting rid of Maggette.
Considering that Bryant, Nowitzki, Duncan, Nash, and McGrady are all in their 30s, the door is pretty wide open for younger teams to control the Western conference. Sure, those guys will still be putting up all star type numbers for a few more years but they can't play forever. I believe if all of the items above do in fact happen, the Warriors would consistently make the playoffs and after a few years with some more improvements to the roster and becoming a more cohesive squad, the Warriors could contend for a title. Only one more problem to worry about: the Warriors’ front office. Are Chris Cohan and his cronies (Rowles and Riley) smart and savvy enough to make these kinds of moves? I highly doubt it but we all know one who is smart enough to make these moves and has the money to buy this team. Just keep praying the Oracle man comes in to save this team.
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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1st
A couple of your points are dead on. I don’t think the Warriors can be good again until Nellie and most of the FO is gone. Getting John Wall would be tight, but the chances of that happening are slim. And personally, I don’t think adding a big man (who doesn’t want to play for GSW) by subtracting your superstar is the best way to make your team better.
i dont get why you would trade monta for an expriing or amare
thats not going to help.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
As people said the other times this “plan” has been concocted, you don’t build a “plan” around a 5-15% chance at getting John Wall.
If you luck into the #1 pick, yeah … you make Monta and Curry (and everyone else) available and see what they fetch. Heck, make Wall available and see if you can’t get CP3 for him.
A more realistic plan: send Nellie out to pasture at season’s end and start next season with a ten-man rotation of
Curry / Monta
Monta / Morrow
Maggs / [whoever falls to us out of Turner / Wes Johnson / Aminu]
Randolph / Wright
Biedrins / Turiaf
I feel pretty confident that with a stable rotation, not ridiculously horrible luck with injuries, and a willingness to play a conventional lineup (i.e. tall guys at PF and C) that’s a 50-win team right out of the gates in 2010/11.
Sure, if you can package some of the surplus of “good” players for a young franchise-y guy like Paul or Bosh, you do so in a second. But if we can’t pry a real franchise guy, I don’t see any point in making a move for the sake of making a move.
There will be no extra point!
Yeah… much as I love ‘Buike and his game, I think, given this draft’s depth of small forwards, and barring a trade, he may end up the odd man out in the rotation shuffle. Alternatively, we trade the pick and/or Maggs, which I’d be OK with too. In any case, unless we make an absolutely foolish deal (never outside the realm of possibility), I’d guess we’re a 45-50-win team at worst next season.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jan 16, 2010 10:52 AM PST up reply actions
I’d guess we’re a 45-50-win team at worst next season.
That guess is ridiculously optimistic. That would basically mean doubling our wins. Bottom teams in the West are improving rapidly (Kings, Grizz, Clipps, Thunder) and without something big changing in our line-up, I don’t see us getting better than any of them or the current playoff teams.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 16, 2010 11:09 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Haha. Yeah, I’m sure there’s a bit of drunken optimism in there. But there’s also a fair bit of reason and math. All ten of those guys (count ‘Buike the backup SF) have shown themselves to be productive and efficient players when healthy; and all of them except Maggs are at a stage of their career where incremental-to-marked improvement should be expected. Throw in a Top 5-ish pick, and a more conventional gameplan, and the prospects are really not as bleak as they seem, imo. Check Dave Berri’s thoughts on the matter if you’re unconvinced.
Meantime, it’s somewhat ridiculous to imagine that the NBA landscape next season will look exactly like it does now. Phoenix could fall precipitously with the departure of Amare; and/or Nash could start to play his age. Utah’s a different, much less imposing team without Boozer. In Dallas, Dirk, Terry, and Kidd turn 32, 33 and 37 this year, respectively. Etc.
Assuming minor-ish changes to the roster, I’ll go ahead and predict 48-34 next season. That could be higher if we luck into the #1 pick and/or parlay some of our talent into a Bosh or a Paul. It could also be a lot lower if we squander all our young pieces on an overhyped schlub like Al Jefferson; or if we continue to be beset by injuries; or if Nellie doesn’t go away and insists on playing “creative” lineups; or if we find a Nellie replacement who has rocks between his ears. But I’ll say 48 as a midpoint. Why don’t you pick a number and get back to me in Spring 2011?
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jan 17, 2010 4:23 AM PST up reply actions
The problem I have with the idea that all our players will be productive is that most of their time has come from starting or playing big minutes because of injuries or Nellie’s crazy rotation changes. I can’t think of anyone on our team other than Azubuike that has shown they can play limited minutes and consistently make an impact. Everyone has shown they can do a decent job when they have a big role on the team, but I want to see players with small productive roles.
As far as other teams in the West, I think Nash will be fine for years to come, although that might just be my Nash fanboy opinion. Even considering the age in Dallas, I can’t imagine them dropping more than a few positions in the West. Utah is a big question mark in my book. Deron Williams is great, but I’m not sure if Paul Millsap can make up for the loss of Boozer, Okur is meh, AK is meh, and they aren’t looking too great so far this year.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 17, 2010 3:48 PM PST up reply actions
Sleepy?
Azubuike is still under contract. Why wouldn’t he be backup 2/3? Hes shown to be an extremely efficient scorer, good rebounder, and pretty good defender. I would be all for getting a Wes Johnson/ Turner, but relinquishing Azubuike’s minutes is not a good move in my estimation. I’m sure we could get pretty good value for a Buike, Wright package? Or maybe package the pick, Buike, Curry for a top of the line point?
I dunno, i think we need to keep Maggette’s top of the line scoring efficiency, Randolph and Biedrins’ rebounding, and Monta’s scoring, but we are missing a few pieces to honestly get us over the top.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 16, 2010 10:51 AM PST up reply actions
I'd rather take Buike
I like Morrow, he’s a good 3 point shooter especially for an undrafted player, but Azubuike can do more than just shoot 3’s.
What do we need to do to become a playoff team? It’s simple.
1. Get better players than the ones we’ve got.
2. Have the players we’ve got get better.
Strategy beyond that, especially strategy that at best revolves around a 1 in 4 chance (and it won’t be that good — NJN looks to have the top lottery odds wrapped up) is not "strategy". It’s wishful thinking. Since the rest of your plan seems contingent on this (as well as some other teams helping us out by giving us talent for junk and Bosh just deciding that he’ll re-sign here when he’s given no indication that he would do so), it’s not really much of a plan.
never trade monta
every doubted that monta would ever be this good and now that he is you want to trade him. i dont think you can get a better player in the league for 11 mill a year.
by Belinelli's the savior on Jan 16, 2010 11:17 AM PST reply actions
every doubted that monta would ever be this good
I assume you mean “everyone”, in which case, you’re quite wrong. He’s had his supporters here for a long time who have compared him favorably to damn near every guard in the league.
The better question is how good is he actually playing? It’s superficially very impressive, but on average, it’s not really consistent with winning basketball. He is putting up very, very nice point totals, but he is not doing so efficiently. We’d be better off with him as a 20ppg scorer with better than average scoring efficiency than we are with him going 1 on 5 several times to eke out those extra points at a rate lower than we’d get them if he shared the ball a bit. His passing isn’t up to par. His turnovers are outrageous.
the 11 wins we have are all because of Monta
think about it when we’ve been healthy he was able to pass, and of course he’ll have turnovers when half your team is out and you’re trying to do too much.
OWENS! OWENS! OWENS! OWENS!
- Joe Starkey
by 9ersDubsGiantSharks on Jan 16, 2010 3:21 PM PST up reply actions
naw
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 16, 2010 4:42 PM PST up reply actions
No
Some of the games was not because of Monta “carrying” the team. His +/- numbers weren’t the highest in most of the games actually. Although, half of those wins he scored the most, but I wouldn’t really say he’s carrying the team right now. Sure, at the end of each game, he usually scores the most for the Dubs, but that’s because he takes most of the shots. Guys like Corey Maggette have been stepping up lately, and is a much more efficient scorer than Monta.
to be fair, he’s being counted on to do far too much for a team woefully undermanned, and as a result he’s doing it with virtually all the opposition’s preparation and attention focused upon him… “by the numbers” you are both right, which is why we have to put numbers in context; frankly we shouldn’t read too much into recent numbers alone, he has been a more efficient scorer when surrounded by better players in seasons past …
i dont think you can get a better player in the league for 11 mill a year.
I can name two off the top of my head that are better and cheaper: Kevin Durant and Brandon Roy.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 16, 2010 11:12 PM PST up reply actions
Well, duh.
It’s not really fair to compare guys on their rookie scale contracts to a guy who inked their deals on the open market. Durant is likely going to make a whole lot more than $11M a year when he gets his first big payday; and Roy signed an extension this summer estimated at $16M+ a year.
Your basic points stands tho’. At his current level of play, Monta for $11M is no bargain. I think he has the talent to to be worth that, once he figures out how to defer more and force things less, but for now I’m not so sure. I think I could find better ways to spend $11M, even excluding guys on their rookie contracts.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jan 17, 2010 3:52 AM PST up reply actions
Good point. Weird to think that Roy is still on his rookie contract when he’s a year older than Ellis.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 17, 2010 3:53 PM PST up reply actions
Here's a simpler strategy that doesn't run on wild luck:
1) Start playing a conventional offense and defense.
2) Have Randolph and Wright improve enough so that the 4-spot is above average.
3) Have Curry improve enough that the PG spot is above average.
Have Randolph and Wrightimproveplay enough so that the 4-spot is above average.
They both have shown they are good young players. They need consistent playing time.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 16, 2010 12:01 PM PST up reply actions
Why, why trade Ellis?
Tired of hearing people say trade Ellis, like why? He has shown so much this year, and is becoming a leader. Can’t believe some people would rather have John Wall. He is molding into a superstar, and is clearly in the top 5 guards in the west. He is a Warrior, more than a Warrior John Wall could ever be.
Wall could be a bust, or couldn’t be. We’re not making the playoffs next year again if we trade ellis and get Wall. Ellis will take us to the promised land if we get healthy and just 1 or more guys that are good.
OWENS! OWENS! OWENS! OWENS!
- Joe Starkey
by 9ersDubsGiantSharks on Jan 16, 2010 11:22 AM PST reply actions
John Wall is pretty much destined to be a superstar
I think a Wall/Ellis backcourt would work really well.
by Reverend_Randy on Jan 16, 2010 10:03 PM PST up reply actions
Yep
Wall is the exact PG we need to play along side Ellis. One who is a good defender, has decent size and can create for himself and others extremely well.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkGSW on Jan 16, 2010 11:29 PM PST up reply actions
Plus, Curry has a ton trade of value, I would guess — probably more than anyone on the team not named Randolph. He’s young, cheap, well-spoken, has “star quality,” and is putting up increasingly solid numbers as a rookie. I would think packaging Curry with Biedrins or Randolph could get you a pretty exciting big man. Just for fun … how about Curry and Biedrins for Greg Oden and Andre Miller? (I think Andre Miller is toast as an NBA player, but I’m hoping his trade value is negative enough to sweeten the deal from Portland’s perspective).
Fantasyland 2010…
Wall / Miller
Monta / Morrow
Maggs / Buike
Randolph / Wright
Oden / Turiaf
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jan 17, 2010 4:40 AM PST up reply actions
I wouldn’t mind that trade at all…but I’d prefer Maggs + Andris for Bosh.
Imagine…
Wall – Curry
Monta – Morrow
Buki – Bell
AR – Wright
Bosh – Turiaf
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
that's a contending team right there...
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Miller is killing it in January
All star numbers.
by Sabonis4Ever on Jan 21, 2010 10:09 AM PST up reply actions
Meh.
Overall this season: .534 TS%, 3.5 reb, 6.1 ast, 0.9 stl, 2.6 turnovers (per 36 min.) Not terrible, but nothing to write home about.
He turns 34 this March, and is due $7.3M next year (only $1.7M less than Biedrins will make). I suppose his contract is short enough that his trade value probably isn’t hugely negative, but it can’t be hugely positive either.
Would you even consider Biedrins and Curry for Oden and Miller?
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jan 21, 2010 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
No
Makes no sense when we have Bayless….and Roy, and Rudy.
by Sabonis4Ever on Jan 21, 2010 7:08 PM PST up reply actions
Umm, unless we are as badly injured as we were last night
injuries arent really an excuse. Simply by playing Randolph over Moore would have fetched us a few wins. Playing CJ more when Monta needs a breather would help. Alot of things the coaching staff, should have done, did not do.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 16, 2010 5:33 PM PST up reply actions
Is he doing too well?
how would trading monta help? he leads the team in points n assists! hes finally taking n making (more) big shots at the end of games n hes jes overall expanding his game to try n carry the team……….n hes one of the last “we believe” players left lol (nostalgia)
by slackersphere17 on Jan 16, 2010 5:46 PM PST reply actions
I wouldn't trade Monta
He is our best player. If we luck into John Wall i think he would be the perfect PG next to Monta(A big PG) We could have a very good backcourt with those two if we were able to get lucky
Golden State Warriors Fan 4 Life!!!
The Golden Future
PF: Anthony Randolph
PG: Stephen Curry
Can't wait until GS wins a championship!!!
by GSW9 on Jan 16, 2010 8:07 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Ya but Nellie has to tell Monta he should handle the ball less, and look for getting points without the ball more...
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
How do you get points
without the ball. Is ther some sort of extra rule?
You convince the other team to score in your basket while you are the closest person to them.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 16, 2010 11:14 PM PST up reply actions
what the warriors really need to do
1) turn on the ps3
2) trade monta + vlad 4 lebron
3) trade biedrins + speedy 4 Dwight Howard
4) Trade Curry + maggette 4 CP3
I read we draft John Wall, and I laughed. I read we trade the best offensive weapon we've had since Mullin or maybe even Barry, and I laughed even harder.
If by some miracle we get the top pick, we need to trade that crap with whatever contract to get another consistant, skilled, and experienced veteran. Monta needs help asap. This team is full of youth. John Wall will not help us. We need a veteran who can consistantly get ~ 20ppg.
Ideally we would be able to trade Biedrins and filler(BWright or Turiaf with Radman) along with the draftt pick in a sign in trade for Chris Bosh. A three headed beast of Monta, Maggette, and Bosh coached by Nellie would get us to at least a 6th seed.
The team right now, even when 100% healthy is a little better than the Kings and Clippers, and is worse than Memphis and OKC.
.
Or I would be down to take the top pick, throw in Steph Curry, and try and get CP3.
CP3
Monta
Maggette
Wright/Randolph
Biedrins
Turiaf, Azubuike, Radman, and prolly CJ off the bench is a definite playoff team. Nellie and CP3 would be a great pair.
LOL
You kidding right? Trading our first pick if we get it?
John Wall is one of the best guys to come out of the draft in the last 10 years at the number one pick.
It would be a HUGE mistake if we traded that pick. Basically every analyst says that he is going to be a star in this league. It’s hard to argue when EVERY analyst says that.
Wall is the perfect PG to play along side Ellis. He has size and can defend both positions very well. He can distribute and score with the best of em and has the speed of Ellis and the hops of Randolph.
IF we get the first pick, we KEEP IT! We keep Curry, we keep Ellis, we keep Wall. We use those Three players to entice a big guy to want to come play here (Bosh).
PG: Wall – Curry
SG: Ellis – Morrow
SF: Bell/Buki – Bell/Buki
PF: AR – Wright
C: Bosh – Turiaf
Not only is the starting 5 a legit contending team, that backup squad would be LEGIT.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
No I'm not joking. I've watched every Kentucky game this year, Wall is being a LITTLE overhyped.
Dude Bosh(or any sane person) is not going to see, John Wall, a 19/20 year old rookie, Steph and Monta and say, wow, now that’s a team. First of all they couldn’t play together or we would get slaughtered defensively. Secondly Wall is really similar to Monta, I’ve seen him make some ridiculous passes, but I’ve seen Steph do that in the pro’s.
Don’t give me that nonsense of Wall having a better jumper than Monta. Monta is guarded by the best perimeter defender on an NBA squad every night, and he lights them up. Its not all drives either. I just don’t see the point in having another Monta. Plus Monta guards SG really well, we don’t need a ‘big’ pg. John Wall is going to be like Tyreke, DWade or Monta, Curry looks like he’s going to be more like CP3 or Nash. I’d rather have a Nash type player than 2 monta’s.
We also are not going to get John Wall, New Jersey will. So its a pretty pointless conversation, we are not going to win the lottery. So I stand by my point when we get the 5th pick in the draft we NEED to use it with contracts to get Monta and Corey another vet who can put up big numbers consistantly. But I know that’s not going to happen.
I love Steph Curry, but I would not be opposed to packaging him with the pick and next years pick, maybe throw in Turiaf too, to get CP3. As I said Nellie and CP3 would work really well together. We would basically be trading for Curry in 3 years so we could have that sort of player to play along with Monta and Corey while Corey is in his prime.
Hopefully BWright and AR become low post threats. That’s all we can hope for, because I feel the 5th pick in the draft is gonna be pretty useless considering the stock pile of young undeveloped players we already have. We’re wasting Corey and Monta right now….
We also are not going to get John Wall, New Jersey will.
Remind me again of the last time the worst team in the NBA got the #1 pick? Not saying it won’t happen this year, but the odds of happening are 25% — no more, no less.
Yeah, it’s kinda foolish to talk about the Warriors getting Wall, but only marginally more foolish than saying the Nets “will” get him. And at least talking about the Warriors getting him is fun.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jan 19, 2010 9:25 PM PST up reply actions
I'm gonna repeat that. This team even when fully healthy is a little better than Sac and maybe the Clipps
but it is definitely worse than Memphis and OKC. Whatever PG with Mayo, Gay, Gasol, and Randolph is better than any starting 5 we could throw together when at full strength. Even if we were 100% healthy all season I would only expect 5 more wins at most. That’s not a playoff spot.
Ok, people who compare Rose to Wall are really off.
Wall is going to be alot better than Rose. Rose hasn’t been that great so far, Per36 19ppg 6apg
Wall is going to be a much better shooter, and passer than rose based off his college stats so far. If we could get John Wall, i wouldn’t trade Curry. We need a backup for Wall and Monta. Curry could be traded, but it would be nice to keep him.
All im saying is, it looks like John Wall will be better than Monta, but we should keep Monta unless we can get a better player in return.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
Most analysts actually agree with you
They say he is going to be SIGNIFICANTLY better than Rose. The college coaches agree. Wall + Ellis backcourt would be AMAZING. It could attract big guys to want to come play here. I don’t see a backcourt that could play better with a player like Bosh + the market in the bay area…would be a great fit.
We need to try our best to ship Andris + Maggs for Bosh…and PRAY we get the first pick…or even make a move with our pick to get the first pick if we don’t get it (Package Wright or Buki with our pick to get the #1).
Starting lineup: Wall, Ellis, Bell/Buki, AR, Bosh
Backup: Curry, Morrow, Buki/Bell, Wright, Turiaf
I just don’t see how even the dubs FO could make that lineup fail. Wall is going to be a superstar….ALL analysts and coaches agree. If the nets end up getting the first pick I could see them potentially trading it for our pick (top 5 pick) since they already have Harris, but who knows…we can only hope. Best case…we get first pick…changing the bay area basketball scene for years to come!
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
And since Bosh wont sign an extension with us (as most people say)
If we get the first pick, I really think he’d actually WANT to sign an extension…going with us in Free Agency…that’s why a big part of the plan has to be making sure we get that first pick…even if we have to trade someone like Buki or Wright or Turiaf etc.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Or keep him
because he would compliment Ellis Perfectly
Golden State Warriors Fan 4 Life!!!
The Golden Future
PF: Anthony Randolph
PG: Stephen Curry
Can't wait until GS wins a championship!!!
Trade
Most likely the Nets are going to get the first pick (3 wins right now). So I think a trade proposal to the Nets would make more sense. Here’s the thing, the Nets are a pretty solid team with Harris, Lee, CDR, Lopez. I think that having 1 more player there that’s good will help them out a lot. Here’s the trade
Receives:
GSW-
1st pick (hopefully John Wall)
Courtney Lee
NJN:
Monta Ellis
Brandan Wright
Believe it or not I do like Monta Ellis. He has many turnovers and is an inefficient scorer, but he’s still the best player on the Warrior’s roster and best scorer. His trade value is insanely high because of his ridiculous season right now (26 PPG 5 APG). To get John Wall, I don’t think the Warriors have a chance unless Ellis is packaged in the deal (Curry has high trade value also, but Ellis’ is way higher). Having Wall + Ellis would be a turnover hell anyways and this would only work if Nets get the first pick. So we give up Brandan Wright + Monta for John Wall (hopefully) and Courtney Lee. Lee is a pretty solid SG/SF that the Warrior’s can use at times. Pretty good defender, I see some Raja Bell in him. And hopefully, the Warriors draft Wesley Johnson with their pick (6’7 SF).
The trade would be great for the Nets because they can afford to have Ellis and sign a free agent. The Nets have a lot of expiring contracts with Battie, Simmons, etc.. They have the kind of money to afford a Harris/Ellis back court, so I think the Nets would love to have that. Now, I know the Warriors are giving up a lot with Ellis/Wright, but I think Wall is worth it. If he’s a bust, then we still have Curry (who I think will do great in the future), but I highly doubt that. This is a pretty big gamble, but for John Wall the risk is worth taking.
2nd trade
Receives:
GSW-
Oden
Webster
Batum
PTB-
Biedrins
Maggette
$$
It works out for both. Maggette is playing very efficiently, and Biedrins will hopefully imporve as the season progresses (he already shown us a glimpse of what he can do last season). The Trailblazers have a lot of expiring contracts next season (especially with Darius Miles), so I think they can afford these 2 big contracts. With Miller, Fernandez, Bayless, Roy, Maggette, Aldridge, and Biedrins, I think that’s a contender. Oden is injury prone but good, and Webster is a pretty good defender. The Warriors get to dump some huge contracts for guys with some good young talent.
Overall lineup for GSW:
PG – John Wall/Stephen Curry
SG – Stephen Curry/Morrow/Lee
SF – Wesley Johnson/Azubuike
PF – Randolph/Battie (hopefully the Warriors sign him)
C – Oden/Turiaf
To be honest, that would be the youngest team in the NBA, but I can see them as a good team, and a great team in the future.
Why trade our most talented young guy Ellis??
Why not just make a move if the nets get the first pick. If they get the first pick we just trade our pick + one of the following players: Buki, Wright, Turiaf, Morrow, heck even Maggs if we still have him by that point.
We still have a CHANCE to get the first pick with our pick. We should wait and see who gets that first pick and make a move accordingly.
Until then, we should try to ship Andris + Maggs or any of our expiring contracts for some high impact player that is as good or better than Ellis…and is a big man.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Seriously
no one has a fo sho chance at getting the number one pick. So just wait and see, we could easily get the pick on our own.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 17, 2010 2:28 PM PST up reply actions
3 wins man. They'll probably finish with 11
We already have 12. Jay-Z owns the Nets, they have an arena being built in Brooklyn, and the lottery is rigged, so yes, they are gonna get that pick.
the lottery is rigged, so yes, they are gonna get that pick.
Thank you for clarifying the quality and the manner of the thinking behind your analysis.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jan 19, 2010 9:27 PM PST up reply actions
That's why I said if the Nets get the first pick
If they do, do you really think the Warriors can get Wall without Ellis?
John Wall is one of the best guys to come out of the draft in the last 10 years at the number one pick.
Even you said so yourself that he’s going to be one of the best PG pick in a long time. All I’m saying is that if the Nets do get the first pick, which they’re likely to do because they’re worse than us, then you need to package Ellis in it. If the Nets just made a simple trade of Wall for our pick and Maggs, they’d be losing a lot. If we do somehow get the first pick, then the trade wouldn’t work. But you just can’t keep Ellis. You need to package him in the deal because Wall is expecting to be all that he is hyped about. The Warriors have to make it worth the wild by adding Ellis in the deal or else the Nets probably wouldn’t make it. Plus Wall and Ellis back court would be a turnover hell. Overall, this would only work if Nets get the first pick.
I don't see how Wall is better than Rose
Rose had the G.O.A.T. playoff debut in history.
by A2mm2o on Jan 17, 2010 2:38 PM PST up reply actions
its nice to see someone step up like rose did in the playoffs
but if his play is that much worse in the regular season, and he can’t get the team to a .500 record in the East……
Like Hedo, he was really clutch in the playoffs, but his regular season play isn’t going to help his team too much.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 17, 2010 3:33 PM PST up reply actions
YOU DONT NEED TO TRADE FOR THE NETS PICK
as it stands we have a good chance of getting the number one pick with our own.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 17, 2010 3:34 PM PST up reply actions
Please Read
I said this at least three times already, IF THE NETS GET THE FIRST PICK. Do you really think we have a better chance at John Wall when they possibly can be the worse team in NBA history (if they keep continuing their losing).
I know that the Warrior’s have a good chance at the 1st pick, but the Nets have a better chance at it. So I’m going to say this one more time, just for you, If the Nets get the first pick, which they probably will.
it doesnt matter if they are the worst team in nba history
it only matters if they have the worst record in the league.
If they go 3-79 and have the worst record, they have the same chance that a team 15-77 would have had if they were the worst team. And no, you simply won’t listen, they only have a 25% chance of getting the #1 pick. Only twice has that worst team in the league gotten the first pick : Cleveland 03, Orlando 04
They don’t have that much better of a chance than we do at getting the first pick.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 17, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions
DubsFan408 is talking about making the trade AFTER the lottery, where the draft positions have been determined.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 17, 2010 4:01 PM PST up reply actions
thats fair
but lets see. sacramento had the best shot to get it last year and they got the 4th pick…
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 17, 2010 4:15 PM PST up reply actions
That's Fine
But I doubt the Warriors are going to be a 15-77 team, or a “15-67” team. I doubt the Warriors are going to get a 1st pick. I’m basing my trade off of if the Nets do get the first pick, which I believe they will but let’s see at the end of the season.
Get G.Wallace or Rudy Gay and keep the team as it is
Curry
Ellis
G.Wallace/Gay
Randolph
Biedrins
that is a quality starting 5 in 2-3 years.
by A2mm2o on Jan 17, 2010 2:37 PM PST reply actions
I really
hope we get the # 1 pick. John Wall in Golden State would be the greatest thing to happen to this franchise in a long time and give us alot more national attention. He would be a perfect PG fit next to Monta Ellis. Also on a side note it would be awsome to use him on 2K10 online.
Golden State Warriors Fan 4 Life!!!
The Golden Future
PF: Anthony Randolph
PG: Stephen Curry
Can't wait until GS wins a championship!!!
Trade Monta Ellis?
1) Getting rid of Nellie? Of course, anyone with a brain should know that by now, except for those idiots in the Warriors’ front office.
2) Drafting a completely unproven player who stands at 6’4" and weighs under 200 pounds is not what the Warriors should do again, especially considering the team already has Monta and another guy named Stephen Curry. You’re banking on potential that might not even be realized any time soon. Let’s wait until, say…. he performs in the manner that Stephen Curry did while at Davidson before we even consider trying to get him via draft.
3) Trading Monta Ellis is stupid unless you can get a star player in return who is better, or at least is of equal value, than either Bosh or Stoudemire. Bosh is a fine player who can give you 20 and 10 a night, but he’s hardly the type of player that teams regularly game plan around as the guy that you need to stop at every turn. Plus, his defense is kinda spotty, no? Let’s not forget he has a tendency to… uh… disappear at crucial moments of a ball game. Have people forgotten that Raptors’ fans used to boo him for not playing with enough energy. He’s an intriguing player, no doubt, but isn’t on Monta’s level. And then you have Stoudemire. This has to be a joke, right? The man benefits heavily from playing alongside one of the game’s best point guards of all time (the John Stockton of the 2000s), and some fans are ready to declare him a dominant big man. Interesting.
A player who can get to the rim, AND FINISH, any time he wants is an extremely rare commodity. Just think Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, or a young Allen Iverson. There’s no need to elaborate much here. Fans would be foolish to think that it is a good idea to trade Ellis for a guy like Bosh or Stoudemire. Did Anthony Randolph suddenly disappear? Did Beidrins suddenly forget how to rebound and block shots when healthy? This trade proposal is insane. If beefing up the front line to prevent from being outrebounded and bullied around in the box every game is what the original poster is talking about, then there is no need to trade the team’s superstar.
Lastly, Ellis is signed already, and his play thus far (in spite of everything that has transpired) has shown that G-State is where he wants to play. Period. If he wanted to leave, he’d either pull a Steven Jackson and create problems, or he’d put up stinkers on purpose on a nightly basis. Hell, he and Nellie even got into it in front of the New York media after Nellie kept getting on him, and he responded by continuing to play hard afterwards. What does that tell you about his character? He is a star player who really wants the team to get better. So what do you do? Well, the first step is you don’t trade him. You just need to draft smarter, and coach better. Surround Monta with better players that can perform effectively around him, and find a coach that actually coaches (e.g. Keith Smart, give him his chance).
THUMBS UP FOR AN INTERESTING POST. :)
by Waiting4JoshMorgan on Jan 17, 2010 9:53 PM PST reply actions
The point in an NBA draft is to get the best player available. It doesn’t matter if the team has a star player of the same position, the point is to get the best player available, which is John Wall. You can say that Wall is someone who might be a bust, but the risk is worth taking. Drafting him would actually help the team with the PG/size problems because he’s 6’4, athletic enough to guard a SG, and is a pure PG that can create and make plays for his teammates. With Wall playing alongside Ellis/Curry, there wouldn’t be much of a small back court match up. Wall is very hyped right now, draft prospects are saying that he could be one of the best #1 picks in a while. You got to trade Ellis or Curry if you get Wall. They can be a valuable piece to a team, and we can package them in a deal, possibly for a big man. I prefer Curry/Wall back court because Ellis and Wall would be a turnover hell, but to avoid getting bashed by the fans here, I’ll stick with Ellis/Wall back court.
Stoudemire and Bosh not worth Ellis? You’re joking right? I’d make that trade in a heartbeat. Bosh and Stoudemire are two dominant big man in the league. They can easily give you 20/10 on a daily basis (Bosh is putting up more which is ridiculous). Those two are guys to build franchises around. You say they have flaws, which they do, but you’re forgetting Ellis has flaws too. He’s an inefficient scorer, when he gets angry he shoots non stop (Cav’s game), takes a lot of shots, and his assists to turnover ration is horrible. His dribbling, play making, and passing isn’t all that great either. The only thing Monta can really do is score.
And as for Ellis and coaches. If you haven’t noticed, Jackson has already rubbed on Ellis. Look at the way he acts when he doesn’t like a call. Ellis 2 years ago never complained about a foul even if it was unfair. Now, he does it half of the times. I can understand that you don’t want Nellie to coach the Warriors anymore, which is reasonable. But Keith Smart? We’ve already seen Keith Smart as a head coach, it wasn’t that great. I rather have Nellie as the coach than Keith Smart. If you want Nellie fired, then at least try and insert a good coach with experience (Van Gundy, maybe even Avery Johnson). I’m not sure of the coach, but Smart wouldn’t be a “smart” idea.
Surround Monta with better players that can perform effectively around him
Maggette has been playing very well lately and Curry has been too. Maybe if Monta didn’t take most of the shots per game, other players would be able to score.
well one amare isnt a 20/10 guy
hes more like a 20/8 guy and bosh is like 24/11.5
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 18, 2010 9:26 AM PST up reply actions
It doesn't matter
They can still produce somewhere around 20/10 (Amare 21/9 and Bosh 24/11). Although, Bosh is the better big man, I’d still take Amare over Monta.
u call yourself a fan and bash your team's best player?
way to go, u can push Monta out and make the Dubs worse by being a hater instead of supporting what should be the Warriors first all-star since Spreewell in 97.
“when he gets angry he shoots non stop (Cav’s game)”
youre talking about one game, when there was nobody to pass to and he got blocked like 5 times on shots he normally would have made cuz the big men were non-existent. if i recall correctly, Biedrins was afraid to shoot and passed up shots when Ellis fed him the ball. oh yeah didnt monta almost win that game for us with some clutch plays at the end as well? kobe shoots a lot too, and sometimes goes 10 for 30 when his teammates arent doing their job, is that his fault? and by the way, Monta and KB24 have an identical shooting percentage, even tho monta plays ridiculous minutes on a team w/ no help.
“Look at the way he acts when he doesn’t like a call. Ellis 2 years ago never complained about a foul even if it was unfair.”
its called being a team leader, which he wasnt before. two years ago, that was baron’s job and he was getting T’s. monta’s # of technicals this year (4) is pretty average for a team captain, are u gonna act like other team leaders, say brandon roy and chris paul, dont get T’s? secondly, monta gets bad calls more than most because of his 1. size (small guys are effected greatly when they get a forearm, Lebron isnt), 2. speed (its hard for officials to accurately make calls when he’s moving at the speed of light), and 3. lack of superstar status (how many times do he and curry get called for carrying when nash does the same).
like almost everyone, Monta has room for improvement but hes not the root of the problem
Nobody to pass to? He took the last 9 shots on quick possessions in that game. I remember he was on a fast break with a 2 on 1 situation instead of passing the ball which the other person would have probably made the basket, he just went for the layup and got blocked..again. He let’s his anger gets the best of him which clouds his decision making.
I know Monta isn’t the problem on the team. I was just saying that if the Suns or the Raptors offered Bosh/Stoudemire, wouldn’t you take it? Sure, they have flaws, but Monta does too. Believe it or not, I do like Monta Ellis. I said this before, he’s playing ridiculously well this season. He has flaws, but can improve on that. Monta is getting help now. Maggette has been playing extremely well and efficiently, and Curry is stepping up too, so I don’t why you’d say Monta carries this team when other players deserve some credit too.
As for Monta being a team leader, I think he can be. Not right now. A team leader is someone who can help his team and make his teammates better, Monta is just doing it by himself right now (taking the shots, anyway). I don’t even see Monta get called for a carry much, his turnovers are mostly his dribbling ability. He gets it pick pocketed, that’s where his turnovers are mostly from.
Overall, I don’t hate Monta Ellis. I do like him, believe me or not. Everybody’s praising him because of his ability to score, but people need to realize what he does in order to achieve that (yes I know he “has” to take most of the shots). But a lot was put on his shoulder this season, so I don’t blame him for doing it.
Yeah other than Curry and Corey Monta has NOBODY to pass to.
Cartier Martin, no thanks. Anthony Tolliver, no thanks, Chris Hunter, Radmanovic, an incredibly cold Morrow, you get the idea.
I’m amazed by Monta sure he took 39 shots but his stat line yesterday was incredible.
36 points, 8 assists, 2 turnovers, 6 rebounds, and 4 steals. He also was a +23. He is scoring like he’s Kobe, and he’s learned how to use his speed and agility to make up for his size. Monta is the best Warrior we’ve had since Mullin.
39 shots were a bit too much. Not even Kobe launched 39 this season (37 was his season high). I admire and give him credit for that 8 assists and 2 turnovers, which kind of shocked me. Maggette on the other hand had 32 points with 14 shots I believe? Well most of it was in the 1st/3rd, but you got to give Maggette the same praise Monta’s been receiving. And how about Curry? This guy started 3-10 and ended with 9-18 and 26 points along with 10 rebounds. 39 shots were a lot especially scoring 36 points. But I guess he has a lot to “carry” on his shoulder right? Monta wasn’t +23 in that game. Curry was +21, Biedrins +23, and Monta +17 at the end of the game.
I think Monta is one of the best Warrior’s player since Baron Davis, not Chris Mullin. You got to give Baron some credit. This guy was a key component for the Warriors making the playoffs, and he did the most during the series with the Utah Jazz and the Dallas Mavericks. Not only that, but he made the Warriors team so much better. He made them actually known in the media and hit so many clutch shots for the team. Ever since Baron left, the organization is crashing, and still is. So is Monta one of the best Warriors in a while? Yes, but not since Chris Mullin.
"the root of the problem"
There is no one root of the problem … and that’s the problem.
Out talent level is too low – before injuries.
Biedrins and Turiaf aren’t dominant players, but they do their job, and do it well. They’re not the root of the problem. Maggette is having one of his best seasons. He’s not the root of the problem. Hey, Curry is playing pretty well for a rookie, he’s not the root of the problem. Morrow? He’s not the root of the problem – he does his job pretty consistently. Randolph is making a lot of young-player mistakes, but he’s not the root of the problem.
The issue is that when you look at the downsides of a player like, say, Biedrins (who I have vociferously defended on this forum) there’s only one flaw in his game which it’s reasonable to expect him to improve: his FT shooting. He’s not going to develop a post game at this point in his career – better offensive numbers will come from his teammates looking for him to finish their drives more.
The same could be said of most of our other players. You don’t look at them and say, “Oh , this guy CLEARLY has talent to do more than he’s doing … but he’s not doing it.”
Monta, on the other hand, clearly has the talent to be a better player than he’s being right now. It’s reasonable to say, “Monta needs to improve this area and this area,” because he’s shown that he can do it. We’re not asking him to be someone he’s not. (eg, it’s not like anybody’s saying "Monta needs to learn how to defend 6’6 shooting guards who post him up.)
That’s not “bashing” Monta. It’s looking at his realistic ceiling as a player, and pointing out the ways in which he’s not reaching that ceiling. If you want to see rapid improvement, that’s the place you’re going to find it.
It doesn’t mean Monta is “the problem” – but that’s largely because there is no one “problem.”
exactly we are asking monta to become that efficient scorer he once was... now hes inefficient scorer
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 18, 2010 5:47 PM PST up reply actions
Monta is not an inefficient scorer.
Jamal Crawford is an inefficient score, Stephen Jackson is an inefficient scorer. This is the first time in Monta’s career he has become the focus of the other teams defense. The last time Monta was playing as healthy as he’s playing now he was our 3rd option behind Baron and Jack. So now he is the boss, he is THE featured player of our offense. How has he responded? By averaging 26 5 5 with 4 stls as an undersized SG. He’s also only 24. If he played 4 years in college, he’d be a rookie or second year player….
This is the definition of a franchise player.
Franchise Player
Definition of a franchise player – somebody who can lead the team and make the team better.
Monta is only making himself better.
Monta is not an inefficient scorer. Jamal Crawford is an inefficient score, Stephen Jackson is an inefficient scorer.
So far this year:
TS% .566 – Crawford
TS% .521 – Monta
TS% .508 – Jackson
Crawford is the only one currently scoring efficiently. Monta has defintely shown an ability to score efficiently, he just has not been able to do so while being the primary scorer and playmaker. I do think (hope) that he will find a way to get closer to the .580(!?!) he put up before his injury, but there is still cause for concern.
"I could be chasing an untamed ornithoid without cause."
Bosh is a fine player who can give you 20 and 10 a night, but he’s hardly the type of player that teams regularly game plan around as the guy that you need to stop at every turn.
Ummm, he is the most gameplanned player on the roster.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 18, 2010 9:23 AM PST up reply actions
Actually...
I would take Evan Turner over Wall. That is, assuming we get the 3rd-4th pick. But even with the first pick…Wall would not be a very logical choice. You can’t put Curry or Monta on the bench. They’re too talented. If you trade Monta or Curry and draft Wall, then you’re left with a smaller backcourt.
Evan Turner to me is like the Tyreke Evans of this draft. Aside from Wesley Johnson, he might be the most complete player in the draft. And size. This dude can rebound the ball, and that is primarily what the Warriors need as opposed to just another PG/SG like Wall. He really is the only thing I’m particulary hoping the Warriors will draft…
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