The Andris Biedrins Starting Center Matchup Watch
by Atma Brother ONE on Jan 16, 2010 11:38 AM PST
in Humor
97 comments
My esteemed colleague Fantasy Junkie started The Andris Biedrins Made Free Throw Watch, tracking whether Biedrins could go the entire season without a made free throw. I was looking over the numbers this morning and it seems like a good time to complement that with The Andris Biedrins Starting Center Matchup Watch.
Jump for watchage!
The Warriors are nearly at the half way mark this season with 38 games now in the books and a lowly 11 wins. Biedrins has only played in 13 of those games. After last season's Troy-Murphy-without-a-jump-shot campaign of double-doubles, the Warriors 9 million dollar center and supposed franchise saving center that so many homers couldn't wait to destroy WE BELIEVE to build around, has put up a weak 5.1 ppg, 6.5 rpg and a whopping 6.5 fouls per 36 minutes. I'm sure you could extrapolate his numbers to per 36 numbers and say he's still rebounding just fine, but guess what? That's doesn't matter. Per 36 numbers aren't a meaningful way to standardize performance when you're racking up that many fouls. There's no way he could ever attain those numbers with his current foul rate- it's against the rules of basketball.
But there's a bigger issue at hand here. Andris Biedrins has been abused by the opposing starting center EVERY SINGLE GAME this season. For a supposed top 5, top 7, top 10, top whatever center- that's a joke. Again, I don't care what the comparative per 36 numbers might say given that alarming foul rate. I also don't even care if Biedrins wasn't the actual Warriors starting center on a given night. That's his role and the role he signed up for when he inked that extension. Sure he's had injuries (like every other Warrior), but again if you're not ready to play, then don't play.
I won't waste words to describe how awful of a season the Warriors "franchise center" is having. That would just result in hysteria in the comments plus a ton of hate mail from the Biedrins fanboys. So I'll just give you the final stat lines and let you be the judge:
vs Houston Rockets
RECAP 0.5 Game #1- Warriors 107, Rockets 108 - The Meaningless Buzzer Beater
Chuck Hayes: 4 points, 6 rebounds, 3 assists : 2 turnovers, 1 block, 3 steals
Andris Biedrins: 8 points, 5 rebounds, 2 assists : 3 turnovers, 1 block, 1 steal
Winner: Chuck Hayes (CHUCK HAYES?!)
@ Phoenix Suns
Recap Game #2: Suns 123 - Warriors 101- The less said the better
Channing Frye: 22 points (8-12 FG), 8 rebounds, 3 steals
Andris Biedrins: 8 points, 10 rebounds, 4 assists : 0 turnovers (great passing night), 1 steal
Winner: Channing Frye
vs Memphis Grizzlies
RECAP: Warriors 113 Grizzlies 105 - Yes, YES, and YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Marc Gasol: 12 points, 14 rebounds, 2 assists : 0 turnovers, 2 blocks, 3 steals
Andris Biedrins: 6 points, 8 rebounds, 1 block, 5 fouls
Winner: Marc Gasol
@ Sacramento Kings
AV Pre-RECAP: Golden State Warriors 107, Sacramento Kings 120- Just don't get blown out?
Spencer Hawes: 10 points, 6 rebounds, 2 blocks
Andris Biedrins: 2 points, 6 rebounds, 1 block
Winner: Spencer Hawes
vs Boston Celtics
RECAP: Warriors 103, Celtics 99 - 2 Game WIN streak?
Kendrick Perkins: 8 points, 14 rebounds, 2 assists : 4 turnovers, 2 blocks, 5 fouls
Andris Biedrins: 0 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists : 2 turnovers
Winner: Kendrick Perkins
vs LA Lakers
RECAP: Golden State Warriors 118, LA Lakers 124- Ain't no shame
Andrew Bynum: 11 points (5-7 FG), 7 rebounds, 0 assists : 4 turnovers, 2 steals
Andris Biedrins: 6 points, 8 rebounds, 3 assists : 1 turnover, 6 fouls
Winner: Andrew Bynum
vs Portland Trailblazers
RECAP: Blazers 105, Warriors 89 - Eyewitness Blazer Envy!
Juwan Howard: 12 points, 6 rebounds, 0 assists : 3 turnovers, 2 steals
Andris Biedrins: 2 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists : 1 turnover
Winner: Juwan Howard (um, it's not like it's 1995)
vs Denver Nuggets
RECAP: Warriors 122, Nuggets 123 - Seriously...?
Nene Hilario: 9 points, 12 rebounds, 4 assists : 5 turnovers, 2 blocks, 4 steals
Andris Biedrins: 4 points, 3 rebounds, 1 assist : 0 turnovers, 1 block, 4 fouls
Winner: Nene Hilario
@ Minnesota Timberwolves
RECAP: Warriors 107, Timberwolves 101 - Lucky #10
Al Jefferson: 26 points, 14 rebounds, 2 blocks, 1 steal
Andris Biedrins: 8 points (4-5 FG), 8 rebounds, 5 blocks
Winner: Al Jefferson
vs Sacramento Kings
Golden State Warriors 108, Sacramento Kings 101: GSoM Night 8 FTW!
Spencer Hawes: 10 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists : 1 turnover
Andris Biedrins: 6 points, 9 rebounds, 3 assists : 0 turnover, 3 steals, 4 fouls
Winner: Spencer Hawes (This one's actually pretty close and you could make a good case for Biedrins, but what fun what that be? Let's keep the streak alive!)
vs Cleveland Cavaliers
RECAP: Golden State Warriors 114, Cleveland Cavaliers 117 - Warriors can't chew on the Cav's "beefy" frontline
Shaquile O'Neal: 13 points, 6 rebounds, 0 assists : 3 turnovers, 2 blocks
Andris Biedrins: 0 points (0-4 FG), 3 rebounds, 1 block, 2 steals, 5 fouls
Winner: Shaq
vs Miami Heat
RECAP: Warriors 102, Heat 115 – Thanks for the Gift
Jermaine O'Neal: 24 points (11-15 FG), 7 rebounds, 1 assist : 3 turnovers, 1 steal
Andris Biedrins: 6 points, 8 rebounds, 3 blocks, 4 fouls
Winner: Jermaine O'Neal
vs Milwaukee Bucks
RECAP: Milwaukee Bucks 113, Golden State Warriors 104 -- No Quit
Andrew Bogut: 15 points, 16 rebounds, 5 assists : 0 turnovers, 3 blocks
Andris Biedrins: 10 points, 10 rebounds, 3 blocks, 1 steal, 6 fouls (which hurt extra given the Dubs short roster)
Winner: Andrew Bogut
I don't know about you all, but I've got my calendars marked for Sunday January 31st. Warriors vs Thunder in Oklahoma City. Andris Biedrins vs. Nenad Krstic.
Swap out Josh Howard with Andris Biedrins in the above photo on January 31st?
MARK. YOUR. CALENDARS.
via d.yimg.com
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everyone knows you hate biedrins so its not like alot of people will care
you’re still the guy who obsesses with trading Biedrins, Wright, Curry for Amar’e, when it’s obvious that would be a bad trade. Amar’e is worse than Corey Maggette at all things….. look at the stats
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 16, 2010 11:55 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Amar'e would be an excellent fit for this team
But aside from that point, I agree that the hate for Andris is totally uncalled for at this point. He is clearly not in game shape yet and has not played as well as he did last season because of it. Give the guy a break, an abdominal injury for a big man is VERY problematic.
Give him some time, he’ll be back in form.
BUT, I would still trade him in a heartbeat if we could get someone like Bosh. Andris + Maggs for Bosh. Boom. Tank the season, get Wall. Playoffs back in the yay area!
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkGSW on Jan 16, 2010 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
amare rebounds better than corey… much better, lol. and he scores more efficiently than every big we have minus biedrins who is slightly below him.
Think of all those cuts we see turiaf, randolph etc do. Amare finished everyone of those. and thats w/o getting into his ability to hit midranger, spread court a little He definitely benefits from nash but to say he wouldn’t improve us is a bit off base
well considering amare is a 4
and maggette is a 3, maggette is a better rebounder.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 16, 2010 1:09 PM PST up reply actions
because of injuries
with our luck, I’m sure that Amar’e would be injured right now, and it’s not like he’s playing all that great right now anyway.
by Reverend_Randy on Jan 16, 2010 5:33 PM PST up reply actions
Ok Bosh is worlds better than Amar'e.
Amar’e with Steve Nash as PG per 36
21 ppg 9rpg 1 apg while getting to the line 7 times per game
Corey Maggette with Monta Ellis handling the ball alot per36
24 ppg 7.2 rpg 3 apg 1 spg on 53% shooting while getting to the line 10 times
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
The Milwaukee game is closer than you think
When you just look at points, sure, Bogut got 15 and Biedrins got 10. Win for Bogut, right?
Maybe not. Bogut too 15 shots to get those 15 points. Biedrins took 7 shots to get his 10 points.
I would rather have a player who got 10 points on 7 shots than a guy who got 15 points on 15 shots – every single game. Of course, Atma, we know you never care about efficiency – you’re a raw total and “Excitement” guy.
Bogut had a great game all-around, but of course comparing rebounding numbers is hardly fair – because Bogut was rebounding against Biedrins and Corey Maggette, who is simply not big enough to rebound against centers and power forwards. They STARTED three players who were bigger than Maggette.
(Everybody talk about our rebounding numbers being inflated because we only run one reboudner out there. That’s exactly backwards. Our OPPONENTS rebounding numbers are inflated, because we only run one rebounder out there).
by Ronaldinho on Jan 16, 2010 12:16 PM PST reply actions 6 recs
+1
(Everybody talk about our rebounding numbers being inflated because we only run one reboudner out there. That’s exactly backwards. Our OPPONENTS rebounding numbers are inflated, because we only run one rebounder out there).
Well said.
"I could be chasing an untamed ornithoid without cause."
by olympicmike on Jan 16, 2010 12:19 PM PST up reply actions
Of course, Atma, we know you never care about efficiency – you’re a raw total and "Excitement" guy.
Of course, which is exactly why I NEVER EVER EVER discount Monta’s assist totals by pointing out his 4.2 turnovers per game.
Of course, which is why I’ve NEVER said how unimpressed I am with all the Lamarcus Aldridge hype give his mediocre rebounding and FG%.
Of course, which is why I’ve NEVER EVER pointed out how unimpressed I am with Biedrins’ per 36 output given his ridiculous inefficient and alarming foul rate.
Thank you for (not) reading.
But I do give you props on noting how the opposing team’s rebounding are inflated against the Warriors. That’s an important point to make.
On the BIedrins vs Bogut matchup. You guys do realize that Bogut also had 6 more rebounds and a stunning 5 assists: 0 turnovers plus 3 swats and unlike Biedrins didn’t foul out?
Bogut dominated that matchup last night- no doubt about it. You give the Warriors Bogut and Bucks Biedrins last night and the Warriors win.
Don’t be homers. Biedrins is having an awful season thus far and is getting outplayed EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. He’s got major flaws in his game, but I never thought he’d ever have this long of a stretch of poor games. Just awful.
Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!" | SBNation.com
by Atma Brother ONE on Jan 16, 2010 12:30 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
yup
I really think we should look to trade him as soon as he puts together a string of double doubles like last season. In 2 years he’ll go from young potential center to……… overpaid murphy part duex.
would u package him w/ something for al jefferson? 3 months ago i wouldn’t today i would.
I hate Al Jefferson for the Warriors...
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Lol
I still can’t believe you would rather have Biedrins than Al Jefferson.
by bojangles408 on Jan 16, 2010 2:19 PM PST up reply actions
Biedrins is as overpaid this year as he's ever going to be, unless he becomes permanently injured.
His contract doesn’t get more expensive every year, which was a freaking brilliant thing Mullin did which he never gets credit for.
Biedrins is having a bad year, because of the injury. Unless you think this year is his new normal (and I’m curious what possible evidence you have for such a claim) there’s no reason to think that he’s going to become an overpaid player a la Murphy.
Judging talent based on someone coming off of an injury
is a terrible idea.
by Reverend_Randy on Jan 16, 2010 5:35 PM PST up reply actions
Well ...
I’m not happy with how Biedrins has been playing this year. On the other hand, he’s been battling an injury which affects his mobility, and has missed substantial time because of it. You don’t think that’s a factor.
When you look at something like Biedrin’s foul problems this year, which seems more likely?
a) That Biedrins, despite having spent his entire post-rookie career up to this season knowing how to defend without fouling, suddenly has forgotten all of that and is going to suck like this for the rest of his career?
b) That Biedrins is fighting through a tough injury and thus is not playing as well as we can expect him to when he’s healthy?
I mean, which do you think he’ll be next year: the 4.5 fouls/36min guy he’s been the last three years, or the 6.5 fouls/36 min he’s been this (Injured) season?
Assists? Really? You want Biedrins getting assists? This is a guy who hits over 60% of his shots, and is rarely double-teamed. Bogut gets assists because he’s a low-post player who’s set up to get the ball in his hands and make a pass-or-shoot decision. Biedrins isn’t.
Biedrins is a player who SHOULD SHOOT nearly every time he touches the ball in the offensive side of the court, because of how and where he touches it. You really think assists are relevant given his game?
Atma, time and time again you have praised players with high PPG numbers and ignored how they got those numbers. Do we need to get into the AI discussion again?
Biedrins is having a bad season. He’s been hurt. He seems to be getting over it. Why are you harping on games when he’s clearly been less than 100%?
by Ronaldinho on Jan 16, 2010 4:04 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
+1
Biedrins is having a bad season. He’s been hurt. He seems to be getting over it. Why are you harping on games when he’s clearly been less than 100%?
This x100
by Reverend_Randy on Jan 16, 2010 5:36 PM PST up reply actions
Corey Maggette, who is simply not big enough to rebound against centers and power forwards. They STARTED three players who were bigger than Maggette.
bigger? or taller? Ilysova is 6-9, 215 lbs. Mbah a moute is 6-7, 225
Corey is 6-6, 235. In the realm of corey PF mismatches these aren’t nearly as bad as 80% of the league
This explains his obsession with Amar'e.
Of course, Atma, we know you never care about efficiency – you’re a raw total and "Excitement" guy.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
You do realize that Amare Stoudemire is one of the most efficient high volume scorers in the NBA over the past 10 years right?
Excuse me if I find that “exciting”.
Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!" | SBNation.com
by Atma Brother ONE on Jan 16, 2010 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
I’d much rather have an exciting team than something like the Boston Celtics or the Cleveland Cavaliers. I understand that most people don’t agree, but pardon me for liking my basketball to be enjoyable. Right now, the Warriors are making the exciting list for all the wrong reasons. I was actually rooting for the Warriors to foul out against the Bucks, because I wanted to see something different for once.
Everyone keeps talking about how bad Amar’e is… but I would take him 100 times out of 100 over any of our bigs, and I like Andris. I just prefer offense more. Hell, I’d trade Turiaf for Channing Frye.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 16, 2010 2:22 PM PST up reply actions
I’d much rather have an exciting team than something like the Boston Celtics or the Cleveland Cavaliers. I understand that most people don’t agree, but pardon me for liking my basketball to be enjoyable.
Well, the Warriors aren’t an exciting team to watch, they lose about 2 of every 3 games…. thats not exciting. The Celtics are exciting to watch. The Cavs not so much because the majority of their points come from lebron iso’s and bs lebron foul calls. Besides the Cavs, almost all of the top 10 teams in the league are exciting to watch.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 16, 2010 2:37 PM PST up reply actions
Excitement
Since the Warriors score a lot, they bring excitement for the average fan. If you’re a 76ers fan and you’re watching the Warriors, you may find them exciting.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 16, 2010 5:03 PM PST up reply actions
i'm sorry to point out that we play at the leagues fastest pace by far, but we are still below average offensively.
So we are more like a team that plays an average pace scoring 98 ppg while giving up 103.5 ppg. Thats not exciting. We arent an exciting team. We lose alot, and we play a terrible style of play. Don Nelson is single-handedly keeping this team in the dust. If it weren’t for the injuries, alot of homers would be calling for Nellie’s head. Plain and Simple, he has done an unbelievablely bad coaching job in the past two seasons. Only under Don Nelson, would there be a lack of accountability on turnovers, defense, and rebounding. It is completely his fault for this terrible “exciting because we get outscored by 5 but score 107” product he puts out there on the court. Oxixn has shown we are the worst rebounding team in the history of the league under Don Nelson teams. You can’t win while putting out a lineup that will be woefully outrebounded.
Small Ball never works. You can still score alot while putting out 2 bigs, but you most likely arent going to get outrebounded to the degree we are with the gimmick ball lineups he puts out there.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 16, 2010 5:15 PM PST up reply actions
Great
i’m sorry to point out that we play at the leagues fastest pace by far, but we are still below average offensively.
I’m not talking about the success level. I’m talking about excitement. To the NBA fan on the outside looking in, we’re exciting. We have a pretty good excitement level.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 16, 2010 5:20 PM PST up reply actions
To uneducated, non devoted fan we are exciting
but to any serious fan, they know we arent exciting.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 16, 2010 5:28 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe
I think serious fans could find us exciting. They could be serious fans of the Bulls, Pistons, 76ers or Pacers or something like that.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 16, 2010 5:29 PM PST up reply actions
Well, i'll put it this way.
I’d rather watch a team play fast tempo with our record than a mediocre team with no hope, that plays escruciatingly slow like Charlotte, Chicago, or Miami. But if we are a team like Portland, or Dallas, i find it exciting. As long as the team is winning, and shows hope, i dont care about the pace, as long as we win.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 16, 2010 5:41 PM PST up reply actions
A guy who watches the NBA constantly
ranked the Warriors 11th or 12th most fun to watch in the league because of their high speed, high risk/high reward style.
He ranked teams like the Lakers and Celtics higher because they are actually good.
by Reverend_Randy on Jan 16, 2010 5:40 PM PST up reply actions
Well this guy is just a guy who has no emotional bond to the Warriors. He doesn't care if we win or lose, he cares if he sees Monta scoring 35 and us losing 123-126.
And losing 2 out of 3 games isnt exciting.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 16, 2010 5:42 PM PST up reply actions
To uneducated, non devoted fan we are exciting
Personal shot at me? I apologize if I find our team exciting (minus Maggette) and would find it even more exciting with Amar’e than I do with Biedrins. I also apologize for not finding the Celtics exciting. Ray Allen and Eddie House and the only reasons that I would watch a Celtics game.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 16, 2010 10:55 PM PST up reply actions
I wasn't taking a shot at you, just homers like you
Because our 11-27 gimmick ball sqaud isnt exciting to watch.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 17, 2010 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
I’m a homer? I hate Corey Maggette’s game and I’ve repeatedly said that we should trade Monta Ellis, which I still hope for. You know what happens if we get rid of Monta Ellis? We play a bigger two guard which makes us less of a gimmick ball team! Could be do the same by getting rid of Curry? Of course! But just like I assume you’re a Monta die hard, I’m lined up right behind Curry, so I’d much rather keep him than Monta.
Everyone one of your arguments so far has had to do with our record, which I still don’t believe is the direct cause of a team being exciting. It also doesn’t work the other way around; just because a team plays a non-traditional fashion doesn’t mean that they are bad. The Suns are the most exciting non-traditional team in the league, and they’re doing fine this season.
It all comes down to the talent on the teams. Are the Knicks and the Warriors bad because they play gimmick ball? No. They’re bad because they don’t have as much talent as other teams. The Suns have a lot more talent, so they make their style actually work.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 17, 2010 3:31 PM PST up reply actions
one the suns are exciting because
they actually have the best offense in the league while playing a fast pace. They don’t play gimmick nellie ball. The knicks aren’t gimmick ball. D’antoni has shown why he is a much better coach than nelson. MD has a team with less talent than most teams in the league yet they are in the playoff hunt. He changed his philosophy around his teams strengths instead of forcing players to play his system like Nellie. We aren’t that exciting to watch. Stop the homer bull.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 17, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions
The Warriors have equal talent compared to the Knicks and less when you consider the injuries this season. The only reason the Knicks are sniffing the playoffs is because they play in the east. Also, how is what they do not gimmick ball? They don’t play with a true center and they launch threes all game. The Suns don’t play with a true center either with the exception of Lopez for a little bit every game.
Nellie is having this team play to its strengths. The problem is our roster is badly constructed and isn’t very good overall at this point in time. Monta and Maggette’s strength is beating people off the dribble and both are mediocre passers at best. The result is lots of isolation plays for two players that are good at scoring.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 17, 2010 5:39 PM PST up reply actions
no, its not because they play in the east
they just play better. look at their defensive and offensive ratings…. that doesn’t mean they play in the east. ill let oxixn explain the ineptitude of Nelson in the last two seasons, and how good MD has been in the last two seasons.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 18, 2010 10:32 AM PST up reply actions
David Lee may not be a center
but he rebounds well enough to pretend he is one.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 18, 2010 10:34 AM PST up reply actions
there’s no reason to criticize amare for his offense. he’s an amazing offensive player.
it’s the defense, rebounding and contract he’ll get that worry me.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jan 16, 2010 2:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think the biggest problem would be
trading Biedrins for a rental of Amar’e. He was practically guaranteed not to re-sign with us.
by Reverend_Randy on Jan 16, 2010 5:41 PM PST up reply actions
I'm talking about the Amar'e of the last 2 years.
Not very good lately…..
Especially his terrible D and Rebounding….
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
Pau Gasol
Has missed how many games to start the season? And in his first game back after a 12 game absence to start the season and dropped 24 points and 13 boards. Granted Biedrins and Gasol’s injuries are totally different (abdominal strain versus hamstring strain), which probably means their range of motion for rehabbing might be different, I am a little disturbed by how gassed and ineffective in so many ways Biedrins gets during games. Not to mention foul prone.
by dj fuzzylogic on Jan 16, 2010 12:40 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Unfair Comparison
I don’t think anyone would argue that Biedrins is a better player than Gasol, which makes it unfair to compare the two. For one, Gasol plays power forward on a team with a much better supporting cast. Two, an abdominal injury is much worse than a hamstring injury as not only does it limit what you can do on the court, it also limits what he can do in rehab making it a longer process to get into game shape.
With the way our players are dropping like flies, I think we are going to have to be happy with less than healthy players.
it's not unfair
because his point wasn’t a raw stat comparison but that gasol basically was same player he was pre-injury almost immediately….
biedrins has yet to show anything he showed last year. What’s worse is he’s DEFINITELY lost a couple steps.
It is unfair because they had different injuries.
Andris’ injury was much more serious.
by Reverend_Randy on Jan 16, 2010 5:41 PM PST up reply actions
Key Difference
I think the key difference there is Pau Gasol is very skilled and his performance isn’t as tied to athleticism. Gasol can come back and play at 85% and still be a damn good player.
On the other hand Andris Biedrins is one of the least unskilled players in the league. His performance is purely tied to any athletic advantages he might have over an opponent and pure hustle. If you’re not in good game shape and don’t have anything to fall back on (like some low post moves, good footwork, a jumpshot, etc), you’re going to be awful a la Biedrins right now. This is what happens when you don’t develop your game whatsoever. Those gifts (speed, quickness, etc) will go with age, but skills are like fine wine- they get better as you age.
Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!" | SBNation.com
by Atma Brother ONE on Jan 16, 2010 1:00 PM PST up reply actions
Which basically means you can't compare the two
by Reverend_Randy on Jan 16, 2010 5:43 PM PST up reply actions
Actually it means one guy needs to get some skills and work on his game for a change or he’s not going to have a very good NBA career or live up to that contract given his continued injuries.
Injuries happen in the NBA. Do you really think guys like Corey Maggette and Monta Ellis aren’t banged up? They’re playing well because they have some go-to moves that they’ve worked hard to develop over the years.
Biedrins go-to move is hang around the bucket and wait for a guard draw 2-3 defenders so he can get an easy basket. Sorry, but that’s not going to keep working.
Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!" | SBNation.com
by Atma Brother ONE on Jan 16, 2010 5:49 PM PST up reply actions
Oh, I'd love it if Andris Biedrins became Pau Gasol
but in their current states they really aren’t similar. It’s unfair to say “because Pau did it, so should Andris” because they really are nothing alike.
I would love for Andris to develop a more skill based game, but he doesn’t have it right now, and he probably never will.
by Reverend_Randy on Jan 16, 2010 5:54 PM PST up reply actions
But he's still a good player
Atma just thinks Nellie is a good coach, and that Biedrins’ sucks more than anyone…..
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 16, 2010 5:56 PM PST up reply actions
nellie is a good coach
all you have to do is watch us under smart. Nellie is definitely one of most creative coaches and when he has the horses he typically out coaches his opponents.
H
smart isnt a good coach either
dont deny it, don nelson is among the worst coaches in the league. The stats prove it.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 17, 2010 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
dont deny it, don nelson is among the worst coaches in the league. The stats prove it.
i’d agrue his coaching>the talent level of this team. Warriors may be bottom 5 or so in player quality, horribly constructed team
i have to disagree
this team is talented… maybe not a 50 win team but nothing less than 41 wins is acceptable.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 17, 2010 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
Then Doc Rivers much be one of the worst coaches in the league too
In 2006-2007, the Boston Celtics had 12 wins in mid January. They were in the midst of a franchise worst 18 game losing streak. They finished the season 24-58, the second worst record that season.
Funny how nobody complained about Doc Rivers the following season.
by IQofaWarrior on Jan 17, 2010 4:19 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
However, Doc had shown he was a very good coach in previous seasons.
And the team was in total tank mode. Pierce was out a long time…
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 17, 2010 5:03 PM PST up reply actions
And Don Nelson hasn't shown he's a good coach in previous seasons?
And we have a healthy roster this season?
by IQofaWarrior on Jan 17, 2010 5:21 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I just think Don Nelson is a worse coach than Doc Rivers
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 18, 2010 10:33 AM PST up reply actions
And this calls attention to the coaches
Where are these moves our big man coach supposedly taught Duncan? I don’t think he gets mentioned enough.
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
On the other hand Andris Biedrins is one of the least unskilled players in the league.
Then who’s idea was it to give him the big contract?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 16, 2010 9:26 PM PST up reply actions
Actually please excuse the double negative— least skilled.
The least unskilled player in the league deserves a max contract!
Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!" | SBNation.com
by Atma Brother ONE on Jan 16, 2010 9:33 PM PST up reply actions
The least unskilled player in the league
would probably be Earl Boykins?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 16, 2010 9:38 PM PST up reply actions
I’d vote for Kobe, Nash, or CP3.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jan 17, 2010 4:48 AM PST up reply actions
I’d vote for Kobe, Nash, or CP3.
I’m pretty sure Boykins is “less” than them?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 17, 2010 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
Well that makes sense. ;-P
I have little doubt that you’re the least non-unlinear thinker on this board, Skep…
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jan 17, 2010 3:32 PM PST up reply actions
So you want to compare two players ...
… with very different games and very different injuries, and make conclusions because their recover from their very different injuries are different?
Really?
al jefferson
yeah… he’s worse than biedrins. ::rolls eyes at B-R junkies::
Andris Biedrins will have a better stat line than an opposing center as soon as the Warriors re-incorporate some plays that take advantage of his offensive skills. His numbers obviously aren’t going to look very good if he’s only setting picks twenty feet from the hoop.
He’s scoring efficiently, passing well and playing his usual alternately-weak-and-productive defense… he’s fine. When he’s allowed back near the basket on offense, he’ll be Andris Biedrins again.
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
Fail
This was a bad post, Andris will be better, this reminds me of the Monta hate, Monta got hurt came back kinda weak, but with time he got better. Andris will get better, he just needs some more time and some more TEAMMATES!!!!
He set a very ineffective pick last night and then made a very lackadaisical roll to the basket. My worst fear for him is that the problem isn’t physical. I don’t think his head’s in the game and maybe it won’t get sorted out until after the season (or he’s traded away). His offensive game seems to be really dependent on others and he did well last season when there was Jackson and Beli (and Monta) getting the ball to him.
by DomoKun on Jan 16, 2010 1:53 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
He set a very ineffective pick last night and then made a very lackadaisical roll to the basket.
If we’re judging him by one play, why don’t we pick the diving deflection he made in the backcourt that led to a layup? Biedrins has always looked clumsy at times, even when he’s playing at his best… it’s not necessarily indicative of a problem.
His offensive game seems to be really dependent on others and he did well last season when there was Jackson and Beli (and Monta) getting the ball to him.
Now this part is very true. Biedrins tends to score 1) off dishes to the hoop, 2) off screen-and-rolls, 3) in the very low post, and 4) on putbacks. He’s gotten some of the first type of scores, but we haven’t been running many screen-and-rolls with him or feeding him underneath; moreover, he’s setting so many picks to open up jumpers that he’s rarely close enough to the hoop to grab an offensive board.
There’s no reason to think that there’s something physically or mentally wrong with Andris; he has been executing with his usual efficiency when given the chance. Our current offense just isn’t structured in a way that gets the ball to big men. As it shifts to re-include him, his numbers will rise.
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
Our current offense just isn’t structured in a way that gets the ball to big men. As it shifts to re-include him, his numbers will rise.
And our team will improve. You cannot score at his efficiency and not help out.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 16, 2010 4:10 PM PST up reply actions
I didn’t mean to sound like I’m complaining, I’ve always liked his energy on both ends of the floor. It just seems like he’s a little lost out there. The offense has been about the heroics of 1 or 2 guys (and that means usually Maggette or Monta) without anybody else being used in an effectively offensive manner. So Biedrins’ inefficiency becomes all the more glaring because the guards can’t or won’t get the ball to the big men inside the paint. Which means that really when you think about it, the criticism shouldn’t be directed at Andris but should lay directly with Nelson.
Atma=WEAK
Everyone knows how much you hate Biedrins Atma. The thing is, Bogut wouldn’t be getting 16 rebounds if there was anyone else other than Biedrins to grab the rebounds. Just because he’s the center doesn’t mean Biedrins should be able to rebound every single miss. Sometimes your team needs to actually help. Last night, the size advantage for the Bucks really made the difference.
Oh, and let's not forget that he won the Chuck Hayes matchup,
as well as the Soencer Hawes matchup.
I chose later in January
I was wondering, can anyone start a “Don Nelson Coaching Match-up Watch”?
The question for that watch would be, “When will Don Nelson win a head-to-head coaching matchup?”
by Waiting4JoshMorgan on Jan 16, 2010 5:06 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Honestly, Nellie has won a lot of head-to-head coaching match-ups this season considering how bad our roster is. Though there have been a handful of games that were explicitly lost because of his decisions.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 16, 2010 11:00 PM PST up reply actions
So...
I’m looking for specific games here where Nellie won one of his head to head coaching matchups. I was wondering… can you give me some?
Bob Fitzgerald (the homer) does a great job of giving Nellie tons of credit when he is able to force the other coach to play his style, but that hardly ever works out in the win column.
From my vantage point, all of the Warriors wins this season have come from either awesomeness from Monta Ellis, outstanding shooting from his teammates, or sheer effort from the team coupled with the 6th man that is the Warriors’ fans (at Oracle).
by Waiting4JoshMorgan on Jan 17, 2010 10:19 PM PST up reply actions
You know, back in the Run-TMC days, Nellie was one of the best guys in the league at drawing up an inbound play ...
It seemed like, if he called a timeout to draw up a play, there’d always be a favorable mismatch at the end of it, one of our guys getting a good look at the basket.
Now, I don’t see that any more. It seems like the guys just do whatever they always do.
Nellie needs to hang it up. The moment he retires, I’m probably going to start liking him again. He’s responsible for a lot of my favorite sports memories. But is it ever time!
WE LACK TALENT
and he clearly knows it. Definite negtive points for nellie quitting to a degree… but alot of people here r posting that Nellie is our problem, when other coaches would have us in worse situations i’m sure
I don’t think that another coach would have a substantial impact on the wins to the point where we’d be talking playoffs. The league is about talent and even the best coaches only improve their players’ performance a bit and historically, Nellie has done this vs how they played before he was their coach.
The issue I have is that at this point, trying to follow a losing team, I’m totally unaware of what the plan is. To run Monta out there 42 minutes a night in a losing cause, waiting for him to break down? That seems to be it. I’d like to see something of a plan that plays to the strengths of they players. Once upon a time, Nellie’s “genius” was figuring out what his players could do and designing the game to match this, forcing opponents to regularly play a brand of ball that wasn’t comfortable to them. It wasn’t “small ball” but “versatile ball.” There were definitely players who played ot the strengths of this more than others and he got rid or sat the guys who were just poor fits, but in general, he found uses for guys and that resulted in exciting games at the least, often with victories.
Now I don’t see this at all. I don’t see any clear evidence that he’s considering what Biedrins does well and working towards having this happen more often. I don’t see evidence that he sees that he has some rather impressive long range shooters and plays to this. I see him rolling the ball out there and letting Monta decide what Monta will do, sometimes resulting in a fabulous game, but often resulting in ball-hoggery.
Injuries clearly haven’t hurt, but even with the injuries, there could be something more resembling a plan.
by jae on Jan 18, 2010 10:46 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The issue I have is that at this point, trying to follow a losing team, I’m totally unaware of what the plan is.
i’d 100% agree with this. I can live w/ re-building if we are building towards something. Look at Portland 3 years ago, OKC a years ago or Sacramento now.
It seems to me Nellie is just battered by the bad luck the warriors have experienced with injuries. With a healthy roster with Azubuiike, Wright, Randolph etc. etc. etc. we’d see alot more of that creative genius we associate w/ Nellie. Right now, what can he EVEN do? I love Nellie as a coach. I don’t believe he is the best coach in the league, but we certainly can (and have) done worse. All that being said, I don’t see what addleman or someone (who I rate higher) could really do with the roster in it’s current construction. Even those 7 or so games where we had just biedrins and turiaf back (Wright, Buike, Raja Bell and others still out) we started looking better… With this roster (current healthy players), we r 1 of the 2 or 3 worst teams in league.
For me, there is just a fundamental issue with leadership and vision with the Warriors which goes back to upper management. It’s been the theme of the whole “Cohan Era” which is why I try to blame Rowell less…. Until the issue’s get fixed up top, I think it’s pointless to be asking for Nellie’s head
Where was the creative genius last year?
Even the year before that, even in the “We Believe” year, Nellie seems strangely pig-headed at times.
Rather than maximize the value of his players, he often minimized them. Marcus WIlliams, Jamal Crawford, Al Harrington, and potentially Anthony Randolph and Wright … nobody is saying these guys are/were our saviors, but there are a lot of players seeing their value go DOWN under Nellie, who clearly aren’t having their talents maximized.
That’s happened enough, now, that I’m not willing to give Nellie the benefit of the doubt.
i thought Harrington played his best ball under us (or at least u can say he’s been comparable @ NYK). Crawford’s PER and stats in general were in line w/ his whole career until this year when he took a much SMALLER role. Marcus Williams hasn’t exactly lit the world on fire since he left.
As for BWright and Randolph. Wright was showing great improvement then got hurt. It’s unfortunate but I won’t blame Nellie for his issues. Year before he was very young when he started so how is it Nellie’s fault he found it hard ot find consistent minutes as a 20 year old on a playoff fighting team.
Randolph again is super raw. He is improving but it’s not like he was a ready made player.
The bigger issue with some of these guys you mentioned is Nellie’s man management style. He is abusive to his players, and while we’ve all had coaches like that, some players can’t take it. It’s a coaches job to know how hard to push and pick there battles. This has been the biggest problem with Nellie in my opinion, throughout his career
Ok, this is how i see it...
We win a game or two we shouldn’t win with Nellie as coach ( Celtics, Mavs, Blazer games….) but we lose a ton of games we should win with nellie as coach. Therefore he produces more losses than wins by a long shot. He is a terrible coach at this stage in his career.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
examples please?
majority of our losses this year r such a shorthanded team that has no business winning. Milwaukee game is classic example, healthy roster, we win
We lost a ton of games...
…in Nelson’s tenure that fit that very script. Even in our best year, 48 wins, the team would play down to dismal opposition. I think his point is that the team that can beat the Celtics, Mavs and Blazers should be able to compete against the bottom feeders of the league. I do think the injuries are critical, but once again, we’ve seen Nelson’s squad take games off when it comes to effort before. If he’s trying and it isn’t working, then he’s been tuned out and should probably go. If he’s not trying, then he isn’t doing his job and needs to go. This is, however, a hard pitch to make with this many injured. I do know that we’ve had some terrilbe third quarters so far, which is generally known as the coaching quarter.
Yep — in fact, we’re the worst third-quarter team in basketball. It’s one of the many glaring indicators of the poor coaching we’ve gotten this season.
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
Don Nelson is worse than Dunleavy SR. right now.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 17, 2010 5:06 PM PST up reply actions
The 22% of you who voted the Chicago Bulls MLK Game
Were 110% correct!
19 rebounds, 8 blocks, and even 1 made free throw- now that’s what I’m talking about.
That was arguably the best game Andris Biedrins has EVER played.
Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!" | SBNation.com
by Atma Brother ONE on Jan 18, 2010 5:28 PM PST reply actions
Beans showed up
Great to see 19 boards and 8 BLOCKS!! Seems like he’s starting to get into the swing of things a little bit. If he can keep building on that, and find ways to stay on the court for 30 plus minutes, it would be solid.
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